 Yeah, I was at the dark and we're back trying to figure out what city Tiffany is in. I'm not throwing off the show in an undisclosed location. We got Oregon Morganite, Lombra, Katie, Frappe, and Eric. Whoa. A lot of stuff to get to tonight, so we got to kind of speed through the agenda first. Let's talk about the election. It goes without saying what the headline is for us. Howard University alumna Kamala Harris. Senator Kamala Harris is the Vice President of the United States on the ticket with former Vice President Joe Biden. Trump has yet to accept defeat. We have talked in the past about what the policies may be for HBCUs, but we can, I think we can take a moment and just kind of live in the moment. What is it like to have an HBCU alumna to get that high in government, and not only just in government, but in power throughout the world? Do we have to defer to Tiffany's nonsense first? You literally had 90 seconds. First of all, it doesn't matter to me that y'all's president has not conceded because you can't see the wind, but you can feel it. It is what it is. My good sis, my commencement speaker is the Madam Vice President-Elect. It's lit. I already booked everything, claimed my PTO. I will be there, mask on, hand sanitizer on deck with my people. That's it. Oh, and we were never quiet. Let's be clear. How conceded do you think that Howard's going to be? I told you, I told you, like, when it happened, I said, how are you actually about to be like the presidential? If I use my real eyes, like I used to before these, I would be, but no, you're right. Stairs and presidential Howard University. How do y'all feel about it? How do y'all feel about it? Equally excited, but for different reasons. I mean, what's the HBCU alumnion you say about this? It says to me that we don't necessarily have to measure ourselves up against PWIs to be successful. And it's really proven the point that PWIs do not prepare the black students in the way that HBCUs do for the world at large. As you can see, not every PWI woman, black woman made it to that level. It took a while for an HBCU to do so. And I'm not saying I don't want to diminish anybody's education because education is important across the board. But it speaks to not just Kamala becoming Madam Vice President, but the work that Stacey Abrams did, and the work that Keisha Lance Bottom did to make sure that we flipped Georgia. That was three women from three different HBCUs on one mission. It just goes to show you that we are as prepared as our PWI counterparts, if not more so, for the fights that we take on in this country. And so that's the encouragement part. This to me was about average degrees. Joe Biden with the University of Delaware. I got into UD. This is the first time in my lifetime. This is my first time. This is the first time in my lifetime where a president hasn't gone to an Ivy League school, a pro scholar, didn't go to some top 15 law school. He went to the University of Delaware. That man is a blue hen. Man, what? He went to an FCS University of Delaware in Newark, Delaware. I think there's a lot of talks about how these are the two most relatable candidates that the country's had in a long time. They're not coming for a lot of money, not going to elite schools. Hastings is a really good law school, though. I will say that, though. Hastings is a better law school than Syracuse. But both, again, kind of went their own path and are still successful. I think, in general, though, I want to see what she's able to do with VP because, again, people call VP where political careers go to die because a lot of VPs don't get elected. The last one to get elected, well, besides Biden, he didn't get elected immediately after. He would have won if he'd have ran immediately after Obama. That's debatable. But the last one to do it, fresh out, was Bush. He was a one-term person. HW. Then he got swept by Clinton. I think that it'll be interesting to see. But this is a win for people who go to average non-elite school. I don't mean average in a derogatory term. These are places where you don't have to have a silver spoon or permanent to T-Score to go to, and you still can hold the highest political office in the land. I think that says something to people who may think that they can't achieve things unless they go to those type of places. And it creates a certain level of anxiety about, if I don't go to Harvard, then I'll never be president. Fred? I mean, it's a lot to process low-key because in my head, I'm excited for my representative politics side. And then I have to immediately go to, all right, I need work done. I could be happy all I want that she's there. And it's great that she's there. It's like first woman, period, and then you've got to list off the extra black and the blacks and proletives. Right? And so you've got to start there. But then I'm like, all right, we need work done immediately. There are certain people that I need in the rooms. I got some people that you can call up. One of them is talking to you right now. I have no problem. Me and my people talk about it. But what I'm saying is in the long run, we as people can be excited, but we cannot be content. And I think that's the part where people are like, oh, you come across like a hater. It's like, oh, no. She's in a probationary period. Because I think that more than was the case with Obama, who was pretty insulated from a lot of black criticism until he was about to leave and gone until you heard black folks even in on Capitol Hill, starting to say, yeah, man, we didn't get some things done. Do you think that I think that she will be more protected by that? Because I think that. Hold up. First 100 days. They've already, they've already said student loan forgiveness first 100 days top priority for Biden. Who's going to criticize? Who is going to criticize her? I mean, have you not been saying criticize? Let's be. Let's be black woman, hating black men. Let me let me say it was one thing when black folks were criticizing her as a presidential candidate. Now James Clyburn cleared that up really fast. He was like, it's one thing for you to think Kamala can't beat Trump. Okay. So we had a lot of criticism in that opening cauldron of who we're going to get to be the Democratic representative. That was that separate and apart all the, you know, American descendants of slaves and Kamala's record in Oakland and other stuff. That's out the door. She's not that she's not the president. She's the vice president. So realistically, how much one, how much blame can you assign to her for policies that don't get done? It's either the president or Congress. You're asking a question that's that's logic and these niggas. No, no. Listen, the girls of Nick, the girls. I mean, Tiffany's point in the Tiffany's point because that's fair. That is a fair point. Um, but what is his name? Don John Trump got like more black votes this time than he did the last time. So it is incredibly for a minute. It's a very small population in the black community. There's a very tall hill, but black women charged, charged the whole entire electorate up and got him over the hump and got them over the hump rather. So, you know, it's okay. We just got to stop. And that's something we just got to stop reading what's on the internet. There's a lot of it is bad information. A lot of it just is not true. And so like the sentiment of the community isn't necessarily what you read on the internet because our votes, our votes prove that. If you listen to us on the internet, you would, Biden was dead in the water. Correct. It wasn't to them. Black votes in Philadelphia, Atlanta came in. And that's when you found out, yeah, Detroit. Sorry. Shout out to Troy because they started. Detroit did start the party. Um, but it wasn't until those votes came in that you realize, ah, the internet doesn't vote, which I've been saying this entire summer, the internet doesn't vote. So stop reading with everything that you see because it's not all true. Now the internet did get this thing incredibly wrong in terms of how he would be him. It wasn't the overwhelming repudiation that we thought it would be. But for the most part, we showed up. We showed out and it was on the heels of Joe Biden. He was extremely popular in the black community. Remember, he won the black South by a lot. And Kamala Harris, who was extremely likeable besides her, her record as a prosecutor. She checks all of the boxes except that one. We got 90 perfect candidate. We got 90 seconds left in this segment. I just want y'all to tell me who in the HBCU community student alumni instituted is going to trash her for something that we don't like. The same people who talk about how HBCUs are anti black and anti black. I'm about to say it's one person. I was listening to them. They do have one. They do have one. They do have one. Cool. Oh, there was another Howie University person who was really close to the top on the Trump campaign. That was like, he was like, we just want to say it. So like, that's not, like my girlfriend just said, let's act like HBCUs don't also breed black conservatives and black Republicans. First of all, don't talk about our brother that way. Second of all, they already started. I follow a bunch of family dudes, all dudes. Most of them are actually from a certain fraternity, not yours, but who are all mad conservative. They all come off the order. They all are like, you know, Team DeSantis, you know, no mask and these, and these dudes, they look on the same floor as I did in gifts. Like they from Miami, from Tampa, from Fort Myers, from the hood. And they are like DeSantis, Team Trump. Okay, this is going to be interesting. It's good vibes now and it'll probably be good vibes for a year or two. It depends. It depends. It wholly depends. It wholly depends on what happens in Georgia. That's a lot of it right there. If we get the Senate, then we'll see what they actually. Now that's a point. Depending on how the houses shift, that criticism or that insulation will be different. Because right now we can hold with Ricardo. So our next subject. A study that came out of Ohio State University that suggests that HBCU graduates are healthier than black students who graduate from non-HBCUs. I just have to dark will be right back. No. We're back. We want to calm a little bit. We're back. We want to bring Broadbrand to Detroit. We're waiting for Winston to get him in the school to rejoin us. Let's go to our next topic. And that is a recent study out of Ohio State University that suggests that graduates from historically black colleges and universities or black African-American graduates of HBCUs have better outcomes than black graduates of predominantly white institutions. Now you have to look at the study closely to, I guess, get some of the connection. Because it's not saying that black folks are healthier from black colleges. It's saying that the people they survey report that they've not had a lot of the factors that lead to heart disease, stroke, diabetes, stuff like that. I'm actually going to be talking to the researcher tomorrow. We're going to be interviewing her for the digest to try to get some of these correlations. Because, you know, in no way am I a researcher or a scientist. It's just I don't get it how where you go to school would impact how healthy you are. Are you serious? Let me say this. I don't know. I can guess that, okay, if you don't have to deal with as much stress from racism, from social ostracization, ostracizing, I should say, that those late good foundations are about yourself to self-assess in a different way. And therefore, you say I don't have heart problems. I haven't had a stroke. I don't have diabetes. It is possible that you could say that we are more helping client at HBCUs because everybody knows the more educated you are, the better health outcomes you are likely to have. So, you know, easy to guess, but I don't readily know like, okay, if you drink more water, you'll have clear skin. It doesn't seem that easy to me. You know what I mean? Yeah, but like, how do you isolate what would be four to six years of somebody's life as being the thing that most impacts whether they will meet high blood pressure, heart disease or diabetes or whatever the case. And we're all black and still living in America. Like, I don't get it. Eric, you have some thoughts on it. I completely understand this. You're just talking about this from racism. I'm talking, like, the impact of mental anguish and stress on your body during what for many people is a very formative period of life where they're trying to find themselves. So, we're sitting here talking about things like imposter syndrome. We're talking about not, like, not even just like actual racism, but perceived racism. Like, this doesn't feel right. It's about the, like, the mental gymnastics that people do over the span of four to six years to socialize, to get in contact with connections knowing that they're black, to consistently asking, am I getting this because I'm good enough or is that they're picking me because I'm the diversity higher. All these things really can take place over this forced period of four years in a place that's really a social experiment in itself because no other part of your life time is going to look like college. So, if you take all of that in and you say for four years of your life who you are being seen and not only that but supported and not only that celebrated and you get a sense of self, like a true sense of self, you get an education from someone who looks like you because you know you can do the things you go to school to do. If you take four years of that encapsulated mental anguish and stress off of your body it makes perfect sense to me while going to HBC will make you healthier. I could see that. I could see the mental edge of that. Obviously that's what I think we all can agree like being self-affirmed take stress off your body and I think that we would all agree that stress is the key part of this. But at the same time even with all that being considered that you're less stressed from a social construct and racial aspect you still drinking and drugging in college? You still not sleeping well you're still engaging in probably the most unhealthiest behavior of your lifetime in that four to six years that you'll be there. So if all the things are considered are we just bionic to that stuff? But I think if impact on you then people give credit. I got one more. Well, yeah I think so this is we talking post graduation right there with healthy after we graduate. So the other thing is that HBCU students alumni are doing better economically than our PWI counterparts going back to that. So if healthcare is tied to employment in America and we're more gainfully employed odds are that we're doing better from a health standpoint because we have access to healthcare. Maybe our PWI counterparts don't and that might be the only thing because I'm curious to see what the study shows too because I think there's just a lot of great like you can't take a thousand students and say one thousand one I say that this is the truth it just I don't I don't understand like like so what is the research is a survey right and they say how is your health now and the HBCU students surveyed in talking about I'm doing pretty well at about 31% and the black students that were from came in at about 23%. We're talking about a relatively sizable gap in terms of one group of people are saying they're doing good and another people a group of people with similar factors are saying I'm not doing as well as I want to be. Tiffany, you're going to say something? Yeah, I want to know how the survey respond is identified in terms of their gender identity and their sexual orientation because we know that our schools are black and conservative AF and so we also know that our HBCU students who are other LGBTQIA community they don't necessarily have the most positive experiences on our campus especially if they express their identity and their orientation outside of what the majority think is an acceptable way to express those things so I do have a concern over that piece because that really forms how HBCU students will have an experience on our campus and that's one of the things that I referenced in the previous segment of the same people that are going to hold the honorable Kamala D. Harris accountable are those who are on the TL saying that HBCUs are anti-black and this is how and so I have concerns over who did you ask if you ask SGA they're going to tell you they're good oh god Tiffany the numbers are still low the numbers are low like you said 31% for S23 so it's not like it's not saying that black people are doing great 2 and that's still a very low number they're saying 69% of the people that's not no, no, no but Tiffany my point is that we're talking about 31% saying I'm good verse 69 saying I'm bad verse 23 so if you look at it from that perspective it's not saying that HBCU students are doing great overall it's saying in comparison to PWI students so this is like this is like saying that PG County is the richest black county in comparison to the rest of the DC metro area it's the poorest so it's like again when you look at things when you compare black students versus black students, HBCU students do better when you compare black students from all schools or white students we're still not doing as well so it's not saying that HBCUs create some false sense of reality or that we're perfect it's just saying that we're a little bit better in this messed up place called America PG County is better than Baltimore City is better than anything in Detroit is better than New York is better than Houston but we got so much snow for Detroit tonight Montgomery County Howard County, Baltimore County the rest of the state PG County is the worst performing part of the DC area and it's second performing in the state of Maryland behind only Baltimore City watch your mouth boy I'm just talking about stats Wednesday is critical to this so I'm not casting a judgment either way Wednesday you have KWI experience and you also have experience sending students to HBCU so where do you stand on the prospect of health outcomes tied to where you go to school I mean I think it's a conversation I think it's more of a parent's concern than a student's concern I don't think the students are looking at it as holistically not the majority of them are looking at it as holistically as like a parent will look at those type of things as an outcome you may be in a group of 100 students maybe 20 of them are plugged into the way of looking at something like I don't know I don't know again the extent that they will really be investigating that I think it's an interesting talking point as an adult to have that conversation with a young person about those things and things for them to think about in regard to long-term health or long-term wealth and those kind of things and what it looks like but I don't know that it's really at the forefront of a lot of 17-18 year olds to Jared's point what am I thinking about in 17 years not a lot about my health and moving in a progressive way with what the school is doing for me in that long term I don't know that it's a large talking point for the majority of young people but like I said maybe their parents would be interested to know that and how much it sways them being comfortable with them making decisions about certain schools based on the long-term effects what they believe to be long-term effects of them going to a particular institution see that's my point like I totally feel Eric's point on this like Fred is right about the notion of you don't have that kind of stress and that's unhealthy stress on your mind and your body brother Katie is right when he says like you have better health care when you get out so obviously if you're going to take a survey when you're out of school and you're reporting how healthy you are now that's a major factor that we're tying to kind of a secondary factor about where you went to school it's just hard for me to get past knowing how much I ate when I was at that morgan and how much mad dog I was drinking in morgan and you know what but that's why it's important that we know who would survey because that 31% could literally be the athletes listen wait I don't know you make a very valid point it might be the fact that during those formative years you try something that is so damaged into your liver and kidneys that your body learns how to recover it's like when you was a kid and you got like like hit your knee on the ground and you know you got some bacteria in it so you know you build up a humidity wow it's the same basic situation it's just like you know you get to a place where your body is kind of tough on think about it, most of us we went to college and this may be off the cuff but a lot of us drank liquor or some other campuses beer is the thing they just don't get your liver the same way that's all I'm saying that's a good point we drank both of them before I was we were drinking everything in Florida A&M everything before I was a marine I didn't drink beer after I became a marine I started drinking beer at his alarming rate it was different it was different it was different it's a different experience I'm just saying I'm interested to talk to the lady tomorrow and I can't wait to hear her research like this by the way shout out to her for doing it yeah and I'm interested to see what were the foundations to say let's talk about the health outcomes for HBCU students versus not because obviously this is a report that was probably was designed to fit a hypothesis of black students do better at HBCUs and the head research of this project is white so that something for y'all to consider but you're gonna wait until the end of the day I'm just saying it wasn't done from a perspective of let's take a HBCU graduate pose a hypothesis and then try to manipulate data to fit that hypothesis I don't think that you're talking about a person who had a horse in the race per se here's the thing was it a black dog, was it a white doctor or a wish doctor? a black alum wouldn't do this because we know there's something that we already believe so we know that we're valuable we don't do research because it's stuff we already know we're gonna take another quick break when we come back we're gonna talk about big news out of Nashville Tennessee State and Meharry partnering for a medical and healthcare professional pipeline between the two institutions not just at the dark we'll be right back not just at the dark and we're back trying to discover the PG County Baltimore pipeline now let's talk about a new pipeline in Nashville between Tennessee State University and Meharry medical school this will be a new initiative that will support students or undergraduates from TSU that is going to careers in medical science and healthcare to have a more direct access point to Meharry Medical College which is one of the top medical schools for African Americans in the country one of three with them and the Morehouse School of Medicine and what is it Charles Drew do not do that do not do that do not do that do not do that do not do this give Charles Drew some love the presidential Charles Drew is NOT is not in anything medical school thank you sometimes a predominant lack of nutrition she will read the Morehouse diy Howard Child B. medicine that's what you meant That's what you meant. Anyway, so what are you guys talking about? The question is not the obvious, isn't it? Obviously it's a good thing. It would stand to benefit both schools because you would imagine that you would have a certain sector of undergraduates that would go to Tennessee State just for the opportunity to get a shot at Mahary. But I guess my larger question is this, and we've talked about this before, how come we don't see a lot more HBCUs do this between baccalaureate programs and master's programs? I wish I hadn't answered. I really don't. Answer? Okay, go ahead. Ego. Is that it? Oh yes, Ego is what prevents people from collaborating in the way that makes the most sense for their campus. If you know you can't get your own or establish your own doctoral programs or master's programs, but you have a school that's right down the street that shares the same mission as yours and you don't think about going into a partnership with them, that's a problem. We shouldn't be looking at the collective of our institutions as separate things in body. We should be working together always. This is a marketplace. I'm going to agree with you, Tiff, but I don't know if Ego is on the side you think it is. Because that's... I didn't say which side it was on. No, I'm saying that perspective. A lot of times we don't talk about the schools that actively in their administration look down upon schools that are close to them and therefore make it harder for people who may have went to school there. Therefore making it harder for people who may want to eventually go there for grad school. A lot of... There should not be, and I've said this before on other podcasts, there should not be any individual who makes you feel like they ruin your experience. I get things happen, but there's no individual that's bigger than our institution. There is no individual. I'm not talking about an individual. I'm talking about literally like relationships between leadership and schools because let's not act like there isn't an internalized hierarchy of how we perceive some schools to us. But there are people who put themselves in an inferior position where they don't want to take you up on an offer. What do you say then? Because I know it's happened. What do you say? I'm sure it happened. You are... Let's talk about the academic logistics of this because there are a lot of HBCs. Let's be clear and honest up front. There are a lot of HBCs that have partnerships. Some of them don't even hear a lot about it. I only had a partnership with Texas Southern in terms of criminal justice. That exists. There are partnerships between how it's happening and how it's not. You don't hear a lot about it. There are partnerships between a lot of HBCs and PWIs you occasionally hear some about. So these things are this but they're not put out there as a major marketing point as a career path right now. And that's what I think that we're missing. Bennett has a partnership with A&T. They have dual enrollment. A lot of people don't know that. And it would stand to reason. And I'll throw this to you, Winston. If you knew or if it was more readily known that if I go to Bennett and graduate I probably have a great shot at getting into graduate school at A&T. Wouldn't that have been it in a powerful way for a high school kid and their parents to see if my daughter goes to Bennett she'll probably slide right on into a master's program or competitive master's program at A&T. That seems to be like a reasonable reason to say, yeah, we're gonna send our daughter there and we're gonna pay that bill. Because that's a good pathway. Bennett and A&T agrees. Absolutely. I think that's a conversation. I think we've had a couple of young ladies even with the Spelman-Incat connection who specifically targeted that to be able to take advantage of it. So I know it's a thing, especially when you live in a state where we don't have HPCU. So if you're gonna get bang for your buck, so to speak they wanna know about any collaboration programs if it leads to if it's undergrad related if it's graduate school or further. That's always a conversation piece for a parent who's exploring that option for a young person coming from Michigan and for dealing with us in our program. I think it has to be more of a conversation. I don't know why it's not. I literally, I try to search around for those things. And one of our young ladies who did take advantage of the opportunity between Spelman-Incat that was one of the reasons why she went is from discovering it, being in our program. And it's work to be able to look for those opportunities for the young people and fortunately we're in a position to be able to do some of that legwork to find it, but a lot of young people don't have a resource like that to know what's out there and know what's available to them. And it has to be more of a conversation about the HBCUs exploring them and then us being aware of them, which I think is an overarching issue in the sector about people not knowing what's available. That's an issue across the, in a lot of different ways in the way HBCUs is what you don't know is there. If you're not in the circle, if you're not in the know, you don't know what's available to you and that's part of the issue, part of the problem. Do you think it's a question, KD, that some HBCUs don't want to promote other HBCUs even in the realm of a partnership? I don't believe so. I think some of it, like Winston said, it's this lack of knowledge and lack of understanding of how powerful that a recruiting tool it is. And some of it is at least it just changes too much for those to have established relationships across the board. Cause I look at Coppin and Morgan in the way we participate in the University of Maryland system, even though Morgan doesn't do that specifically, there's still classes I could have taken at Morgan while being at Coppin because they still have to follow a certain set of rules in order for their degree to count, if you will. In order for the classes to count towards your degree, if you will. So it's one of those things where I would ask, one, where is our leadership in this? Saying, hey, this is a good idea. Then two, how does that fit the state systems, right? What are the states require for these programs? And then how can we use, don't marry those two things together so that we have a more fluid and more functioning network amongst our schools? Cause it's a good idea. I mean, you know, I wish schools like Coppin did more of that especially because now we have the space to take on more students. So that will help us keep that building open essentially if we can get tuition from a couple of other places besides relying on our own recruiting. And then that would do a lot of the recruiting for us too, right? Cause if a UB student comes to a Coppin class and likes what they see, they might just transfer. Right. You know, so it's stuff like that. It's a leadership thing though. We need some continuity in leadership so we can build these relationships. And hopefully we see that more in the future as we have to get more creative about enrollment because of the pandemic. Do you think that or is that it would put extra pressure on the, I guess the starting point HBCU? So for example, Texas Southern as a law school. And if you said, okay, well, if you go to prayer view and you want to major in political science or you want to major in any undergraduate program that has a pathway to law, whether that would be English or something like public policy or something like that. That prayer view still has to do the legwork of that recruitment. And therefore they say, well, maybe we shouldn't do that because in a way that puts more money into Texas Southern's coffers. And we have graduate programs over here and maybe not we don't have law, but maybe we're better suited promoting some of our graduate programs. Do you think that it's a logistical question or a business decision where one institution may say, that sounds good, but it doesn't readily seem like beneficial to us. Is that, would that be a concern for an institution? I would say yes. And one thing that I keep in mind as well, and I was talking about this the other day, like obviously Texas Southern has a really good law school. So there's Howard, you know, those are two really, really prominent important law schools in their area. And same with the medical schools, especially a school like Howard and Mahary. But the problem is that they're trying to recruit for the best students. And graduate school is a different animal. So having a partnership is cool for programs that don't have those meticulous standards. So your business schools that are AAC has to be accredited, your law schools, your medical schools, they have to get the best students. And in some cases, I mean, if you look, even if you look at, at TMCF this year with the Hennessy Fellows, a lot of those Howard law students, the UDC law, I mean, some of those guys, people are not HBCU undergraduates. One guy went to University of Texas and then went to Howard Law School. So in some cases, is he taking a spot of another HBCU undergraduate alumni? He maybe had better grade, maybe had a better grade, maybe interviewed better. I don't know. But I think that with these highly competitive programs, like medical, like law and even business, obviously Morgan, Howard, a couple other schools have really strong, high-rated business schools. They're looking for the best candidates, period. They would prefer them to be black, even better than HBCU undergraduate graduates. But a lot of those spots at TSU Law School at Howard's Law School are not taken up by HBCU undergrad. I mean, the girl who wrote the piece about Howard spending the money from, you know, from Netflix, you know, on athletics went to UVA. Now again, does that take the spot of a kid from Morgan, a kid from ANT, a kid from somewhere else? It might. The same thing with the black kids who go to NCCU's Law School, because they didn't get into UNC's law, but they go to NCCU. Is that taking a spot from somebody from ANT? I would say so. So these partnerships are important, but I think we can't undermine, like you said, logistically, that the school with the money asset, with the law school, with the medical school, does not have the same interest as the school without it. So the school without it has an interest in getting their kids into those higher level programs. The school with the money is trying to find the best graduates. And in many cases, they end up taking on more black students or maybe proportional black students from PWIs, especially because those black students are getting into subsequent PWI Law School, subsequent PWI medical schools is way harder than getting into undergrad. That's a good point. I mean, and I think that there is a conversation to be had about the nature of selectivity at the undergraduate level and the level of preparation that you need to get into a lot of our HBCU graduate program. Cause I can tell you, I was a decent student coming out of Morgan. I applied for, out of undergraduate, I applied for the Masters of African-American Studies at Morgan, couldn't get in. Not because the grades weren't good. I didn't have enough courses in history to qualify for that program. So it is true, they're not just letting anybody in just because you want to go. Like you have to meet a certain standard, not just with your test scores, but with your training at the undergraduate level. And it could be that a lot for these graduate programs which are really, really good. A lot of people don't give a lot of credit to the HBCU graduate programs. This ain't the undergraduate show. They're really, really rigorous and really, really selective. So that is a good thing. But I think that, oh, go ahead, go ahead, let's- I'm just saying, I think we got to play the string too. Like, you know, you look at a Xavier in Louisiana, like that's a great, it should be of several pipelines from a Xavier in Louisiana for medical school, you know, in Morgan, talking about Morgan's business school. I think we got to like, just similarly how donations seem to go to those institutions that are well-known in the sectors. It needs to be the same thing with the partnership. You got to start playing up what we know well. Those schools should automatically be, you know, searching for those partnerships opportunities. And then the other schools can see what, oh, there's value in investing in having a student prepare for medical school. I've been trying to say- Value in having a student who's ready for a good MBA program. And we, in ways that we can invest them in those things. Go ahead, Brett. I've been trying to say this. If we did more partnerships, it would possibly stop a lot of schools from wasting money on programs. They shouldn't be running in the first place. That's a good point. That's one point. And that's also to Katie's point about the leadership. Because that would be why the leadership would be continuous and focused on those programs. Yeah, and this is gonna sound messed up, but like, and I could say it on both ends, there are some HBCUs that have grad school programs. They should not be running. And you have some HBCUs that have undergraduate programs. They don't even have the capacity to run. Definitely undergraduate for sure. Right? So when we're looking at from that situation, like, I'm sorry, you probably don't need to be, if you go off of sociology in this aspect, and you got three PhDs in your entire department, and you got them same three PhDs teaching all the courses of the grad school level, you might keep your undergraduate program, but cut that grad program and go to the school down the street to actually got the capacity to do it. Like at some point, there's a lot of issues that came around that, and this kind of goes back to ego too, but not in the exact same way. Where it's like, if you're knowing your strength, if you can look at your school and be like, you know what, these are our heavy hitters. This is what we do really well, and there's an HBCU down the street that they do this better. We ain't making no money off of it. We're not benefiting our students off of it because they can't get to a particular level in their career. Why don't we focus our efforts in what we do best, and then build a partnership in an area that that school down the street doesn't do best, but Eric, one thing I'll say is this, right, and I'll talk about Morgan and Coppin. Coppin has traditionally had an amazing nursing program, right? They won, that's a mistake. Might be the best in the region. Do you know who number two is now? It's Morgan. Do you know who's grown enrollment faster than Coppin in the last 10 years in nursing? It's Morgan. And again, I don't say that with pride. It's cannibalized. It's cannibalized Coppin's program. And I think that we have to keep in mind that these presidents are not beholden to the community. They're beholden to their school. And what's in the best interest of Morgan is not always in the best interest of Coppin. And again, it probably would be smarter to have a partnership there than Morgan produced his own nursing program. But what they did instead was produce their own program. And now I guarantee you the next 10 years, Morgan's program will probably be more known than Coppin. Not because it's any better, but because Morgan is a school with a higher profile, more enrollment and more students. And I think that's a big issue that we have within our sector is that schools with a bigger cache have the ability to duplicate programs from HBCU just like the PWIs did. And then you surf that money out. So that's why I think Morgan Coppin's a prime example of there's nothing that you can do at Coppin that's unique if you can do it Morgan now because Morgan continues to duplicate those programs. But let's put a fine pin on it before we round out the conversation. When we talk about these pipelines, regardless of the school, you ain't talking about 20 students that are going from an undergraduate program to a graduate program from one institution. You may be talking about one or two because a program like a school like Mahary or Howard or Morehouse School of Medicine, you're talking about an incoming class of potential PhDs that might be 15 students from worldwide. Worldwide, like that's all the, let's say, three to 500 applicants that go for any cohort that meet their requirements, they're gonna let in about 15 to 20. So if you say we have a pipeline, you're talking about two students any given year. However, and to the opposite point, those two students every year, that adds up a lot. And that gives you an opportunity for that undergraduate program to market to high achieving students out of high school and say, hey, if you come to Tennessee State and you keep your grades up, you'll probably be on the fast track to go to Mahary and get a doctorate. So there's numbers and then there's culture and then there's capacity and then there's readiness from the student's perspective. And I think that if anything that we take away from this conversation that the two institutions or two institution types gotta do a much better job of saying, let's work together to make sure that we can recruit the top students and get something going where they go from here to here to here to there and be successful. Let's take one more quick break and we're gonna round out the conversation. More money for HBCUs, how big news at Howard. But despite Tiffany, we're gonna talk about a big gift to a Prairie View A&M. Did I just have to talk with you? Right, that's right. After dark and we're back, Tiffany Horace and undergraduates on her timeline. I remember basic civics lessons. But now just another big gift for tonight. Another big gift came to the HBCU community this week with anonymous $10 million gift to Prairie View A&M University. And I believe that this is the second time this year that Prairie View has collected the biggest gift in school history. So a few months ago, Prairie View got a gift and I think maybe eight. And now this is a passion. So I'm just gonna ask the question. What happened to that whole conversation about why does Howard Morris and Spellman get all the money? Ha ha ha. We don't know. She was president of Brown. She ain't a regular public president. Hold up. You know how to get money. Let me be very clear. She was the president of Brown. She's an HBCU alumna. She's an HBCU faculty member. She was the provost at Spellman. So she got a, she got a, she got a. She was a seller and worked at Spellman. Schools to get money. Right, you said the quiet part out loud. She has a network. She has a network. That's what we established two months ago when this started. Spellman is not, is not the sister that came up in the PWI, in the PWI universe and decided to end her career at HBCU. That's the quiet part. She got a real relationship with the HBCU community. She stepped out. Did you get the bell time, Mike So? Did you get the bell time, Mike So? You realized that like she has touched hands that most HBCU presidents have not had a chance to. Because she was a president. She wasn't even a provost about, she was a president of an Ivy League institution in Providence, Rhode Island. She has a certain level of access, one. And two, she is in a really, really interesting position because Prairie View is the predominant HBCU in Texas by far. It's the oldest, it's the predominant. I mean, I want to TSU sure, but it is what it is. And thirdly, she's from Texas. Right. So her network in the state with legislatures, with people in the business community and then just elite money in this country is unprecedented. She's probably the most connected HBCU president only behind probably the young man at ANT. I thought you were gonna say the young man in Morgan and I was gonna beat you right up. I was gonna say you were. I was gonna say you were. You were. You're always running for a kiss. Hey, you guys play, and all of that is fair. All of that is fair. And Dr. Simmons's career bears that out. And I recently had a conversation, my very first one with her. And she said, if I don't do anything else but raise money and try to improve outcomes at Prairie View, I've done my job. I'm only here for a little bit because I was retired before I got here. So I'm here because I want to be here and I'm here to achieve a certain level of objectives so that everything you're saying is well taken. I'm just saying like we keep trying to specifically speak to the young people, I think through this show who keep putting out this misnomer that the only HBCUs that get money are Howard Morehouse and Spelman. And over the course of this show, I think every opportunity that we could take, we have tried to take to say, Prairie View getting money, Fort Valley State getting money. It's a whole lot of HBCUs out here getting money. Now, are they getting $100 million? No, but they are getting money. They're not getting $100 or $200 to pass go either. You know what I mean? They're getting substantive gifts. Tougaloo just got $4 million. Like at some point, this narrative has to stop because I think that it's dangerous to keep saying that and everybody who's on the outside interested in giving to HBCUs is saying, well, if I'm gonna be criticized for giving, I'm not gonna do it. And not just that. Again, let me challenge these dummies. Sorry. You won't use the word dummies. I'm from Baltimore. But Joe, the other thing that really pisses me off is that half of them that are saying this don't even give it down to the HBCUs. That's a fact. Probably have some disdain towards the HBCU over financial aid. Like seriously. Like fam, at some point, check into the game. Join your alumni association. Throw some money. Start raising money for your school. Or I would like this t-shirt, okay? I don't even care about your t-shirt, Seth. Did you say buy a t-shirt? If you, look, the least anybody can do is buy a life t-shirt or prune. For real. For real. Black, I got t-shirts, I got sweatshirts. Like, I mean, you're not seeing the Vegas on back when the bricks, but I wanted to be outside. But I'm a fan of Copper State University as an alum. So I'm going to represent my university everywhere I go. If you're not doing that, you don't have a conversation with me about schools receiving money. Because it's fruitless at best. But even if we're not talking about giving money, because a lot of, that is, we're just talking about big time, multi-million dollar gifts, right? That usually come from one person or a corporation. Southern got, you know, a couple of million from Dow and Chevron. That went under the radar. But we're also not talking about schools like North Carolina Central, where you had their alumni under the age of 40, give a couple of million dollars. You're not talking about a Shaw University that had alumni giving $900,000 at a Gala a couple of years ago. Like HBCs are starting to get that kind of engagement. They're starting to get the kind of gifts that, you know, while in comparison to higher education, we're still catching up there. But we're doing a lot better than we used to. You're not talking about a Gala where, you know, they passed the plate around and the final total is maybe, you know, $50,000. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars being raised in a single night at this point. I must double that. I think alumni, and I think HBC sectors, they're not, we're not doing well. We're not obviously not overrunning with money. But we're not trash either. And I wish we would stop promoting that. Look, I'll double down on it. If and when that debt gets erased in January by the administration, I don't want to hear nothing from nobody to talk about. They can't donate to the HBCU because you got a big ass bag, excuse my friend. Yeah, like, some of y'all, some of y'all, I've been complaining about, about a student loan payments that we made in seven months. Forever, forever. Or forever. And you talking about, oh, I can't donate or I don't owe my school anything. You use it to grant me that. I'm saying. I'm taking it home to graduate it. See what happens then, because then what's the excuse? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No doubt. No doubt. I think what do you think? Well, let me ask you this. I always like to ask the question, whose responsibility is it? Is it the school's responsibility? Because they're obviously sharing the news about money that they get. So they're doing what they can do to let people know, hey, we got a big gift. Hey, we got a partnership. Hey, we got a friend and such, such from people you've never heard of, right? Like the Tougaloo gift, these are two people I've never heard of. These were an astronomer. I'm Boston somewhere. Gave them $4 million. So they got friends in high places that you've never heard of and they're promoting that. But yet, I don't know. Is it, I don't know what the digest can do. I don't know what we can do as advocates. I don't know what can be done where people can stop the madness of we don't, we're only three schools are getting the best of everybody. Brother, this is the same social media. Nevermind. We just got through a presidential cycle where people believe that president Biden is a pedophile. So you say this is QAnon's fault? Is QAnon his friend? And the QAnon, the people that would lean on QAnon as factual information, like they believe pizza gate. QAnon is saying, QAnon is saying to Asia, how am I supposed to spell my name? I'm not saying it's the same exact people, but I'm saying that when that type of information is being believed and being repeated and being shared, it's really tough to get through good factual information in this area. Right? They are very, because people don't even believe in journalism anymore. Right? People readily lean on blog spaces than actual journalists. People don't even understand the research that goes into journalism anymore. Wait a minute. You nice, brother. Dude, it's how I'm saying this. Is that it's hard to get good news because people think that people distrust regular journalism. So, I'm not putting any stock into these complaints, especially for people who ain't given no money. A interesting point about the journalism, because another thing is that a lot of these local papers papers are are blowing this stuff up for Valley Atlanta Journal Constitution a large they're blowing this up there's a generation of children that believe that you don't have to pay for news yes literally they will not single publication as a high school student I used to get the Sun paper outside the bus on the way to school and walk around with the paper and read the news these kids don't do that they think you come on that phone for free that's a larger video in the same room and what news all right we need to follow the same room so it's the problem is just do you follow the same room? do I follow the same room? yeah no yes you do no I don't what do I have a lot of you for? she follow HBCU Buzz though no I don't I don't I don't I'm a great girl I'm a great girl I'm a great girl yo that's the first time I've heard a dis-record on a podcast flex bomb, flex bomb, flex bomb oh my god all right we go on that note we go go ahead right wait wait wait on that note I got a rhetorical question is Donald Trump the Morris Brown or President Trump? is Morris Brown the Donald Trump or President Trump? how does that have to happen? how does that have to happen? we're doing so good he's busy he's busy we'll get him out of HBCU first thank you everybody for listening I just have to jump all right thank you without any mention of Kevin James and Morris Brown College but Eric oh that energy had to go had to come back it's been too long Tim oh my god thank you for listening we'll catch you next week peace