 Welcome to this session, Trade Now What. I'm Stephanie Flanders, Head of Bloomberg Economics. I've been impressed in the last couple of years by the ability for people to continue to talk about the end of globalisation, the end of trade, even against the backdrop of an extraordinary trade boom where we're seeing the lines of container ships and supply chain issues which, to a large extent, have more to do with an excess of demand for trade rather than anything else. So I think we can still say trade's not going anywhere but how countries are now going to work together to make the trading system be part of a solution, a global solution for challenges like climate change, food security, national security, all of these questions. I mean a lot of these things that we discuss over the week come down to trade one way or another because things have to go from one country to another. So I'm delighted that we are having this session with some excellent speakers who I'll introduce in a minute but first just as a matter of housekeeping, just a reminder that if you're posting on social channels you should use the hashtag WEF22. If you want to get involved in the session on Slido, if you're in the audience now you could use the QR code on the screen. If you go to Slido, anyone who's watching Slido.com, then you must do the hashtag future trade and that'll take you to the polling questions. We're going to just take an opening poll to kick off the discussion and get everyone familiar with Slido. So the question once you get on there to think about is are trade disruptions likely to intensify over the next year? I suspect the last few years we've spent, we keep saying it's going to get better next year and it doesn't but that's the question. So yes or no are trade disruptions likely to get better over the next year. So just to introduce my panel while you're answering that question, to my immediate left, Valdeist of Borovskis, European Commission and Executive Vice President for an economy that works for people. We also have Minister Piyosh Goyal, Minister of Commerce and Industry for India. He's also the Indian Prime Minister's G20 Sherpa. The Director-General of the World Trade Organization, Ngozi Okon-Joywela, who's also a member of the Board of Trustees for the WEF, and carrying the flag for the private sector hoping to get a word in against all these policymakers, Brian Peterson, Chief Executive Officer of Flexport, the US company. So I think, do we have answers to the polling questions? Yeah, people are still feeling relative. In fact, I'm surprised that the no is as high as it is. We've got a decent showing for no. We obviously haven't spent long enough talking about the future of globalization in any of these WEF sessions. Commissioner, I obviously, I think I need to start with you because we've had so much conversation about Ukraine at this Davos inevitably, and with the strong presence of Ukrainians here as well. Obviously, the European Union has taken a strong stand against the Russian invasion, and we've had unprecedented economic sanctions on Russia and Belarus. The oil and gas issues do seem to be testing the blocks unity. So I guess I would ask you, we've done all of this, but is the EU now reaching a limit of what it can do to punish Russia? Well, first of all, it's important that the EU and entire democratic world is responding strongly to these Russia's unjustified and barbaric invasion against Ukraine. So we need to do all necessary to support Ukraine to defend itself to eventually win this war. We need to put maximum pressure on Russia to stop this aggression, and that's exactly what the EU has been doing, providing all kind of support to Ukraine, economic, financial, humanitarian, also for the first time in EU history, military support, and already we have enacted five rounds of sanctions against Russia, and currently we are negotiating the sixth round of sanctions, which indeed includes also oil embargo. And there it must be said that if you look at the pre-war trade between EU and Russia, 62% of Russia's exports to the EU were hydrocarbons. So clearly if we want to get close to the heart of the financing of Putin's war machine, we need to act on hydrocarbons, and that's why those sanctions also against oil are so important, so I hope that EU member states will be able to agree and move forward also on this. Because otherwise we are in somewhat productical situation, we are providing massive support to Ukraine with one hand, and then we provide financing to Putin to continue its war with another hand, so this clearly has to stop. And just to follow up on that, because there's obviously much discussion around the use of rubles. The commission's guidance on that is quite clear on the gas purchases that people should open a euro account when, if the transaction clears, but quite a lot of gas companies seem to be opening up rubles accounts, so I just wanted to clarify for you, is that a breach of the sanctions as far as your concern? Well basically there are contracts and vast majority of contracts are either in euros and dollars, so our positions at those payments need to be made in euros and dollars, and any further currency conversions, how to take place afterwards, so that's the position we have been taking on this, but it must be said that also regardless of sanctions, we need to move away from the dependency on Russian fossil fuels. In the EU this strategic decision is taken, we recently came with what we call repower EU plan, outlining how exactly we'll be doing this, and how we'll be moving away from those supplies of Russian fossil fuels. Minister, well you won't be surprised that I will ask you a question on this topic, India's made it very clear that it needs to buy cheap oil from Russia, is buying more oil, discounted Russian oil, and it buys more Russian weapons than any country in the world. The US has been understanding about India's position, has said they're sort of playing the long game that because they believe ultimately that the US is the key strategic partner for India, so can I just ask you what steps are you taking over the longer term to reduce dependence on Russia, even as you buy more from Russia right now? I think we've been very clear from the beginning that dialogue is the way forward. We must sort out this dispute, it's doing nobody any good, and it's important that all the concerned countries and the neighbours find a solution to this very, very unfortunate conflict. In terms of India's own dependence on oil from Russia, we have never traditionally been a very large importer of petroleum products from Russia. In fact, on an earlier occasion, our foreign minister has clarified that we buy less petroleum products from Russia in a month than what is consumed or bought by the European countries in an afternoon. So therefore, I think any suggestion that India is increasing imports from Russia is anyway contributing to the situation certainly doesn't stand scrutiny. Over the years, there have been a friend of India and we believe that the right way would be to find an amicable solution keeping in mind everybody's concerns, everybody's point of view. In terms of the long term, India has always looked at diversified sources for our petroleum requirements, but in the current situation when inflation is at an all-time high, it has caused severe stress to people all over the world. The European Union and other countries in Europe continue to buy far, far more larger quantities than India has ever even thought of buying or will ever buy. So I don't think at all India at this point of time is in any way responsible for the petroleum exports of Russia. Having said that, I must also place on record that I was personally advised that there is no sanction on petroleum goods or food grain procurement from Russia and no sanctions have been placed on that by senior leaders of the coalition which has put in the sanctions. So I think India is well within the current framework which has been designed by the countries who have put in the sanctions. And just as a follow-up, and with apologies to the audience, but at Bloomberg we have reporters who are just trying to get to the details and trade is all about the details. So just explain to me if Russia's locked out of Swift and has the sanctions on it. Have you agreed a payment mechanism for the Russian imports? I'm just wondering how Indian banks can get the money to Russia without violating sanctions. Well, I'm not handling that subject, but I would assume that it would be no different from the way other countries are procuring petroleum products. Well, I think there is a question about whether or not you're going to be doing it in Ruble's, whether you've established a mechanism. Well, as we just heard, every country has to look after its national interests. I think our interests are no different from the interests or the needs of the European people. Talk to Ngozi. Obviously one of the very worrying side effects of the crisis in Ukraine is this growing fear of a food crisis and global food shortages. What practically are you thinking about in your position to help governments respond to this crisis? Is there anything that the WTO can do? Well, thank you. Certainly the food crisis is a real worry and it's not just about this year. I think it might be about next year or even beyond that. And the reason I'm saying that is if countries are not able to get fertilizer to plant the next crop, those that need fertilizer, then yields are going to be lower. There will be less supply in the world across the board of all types of grains and food. If we are not able to evacuate the 25 million tons there about of Ukrainian grain that is presently stored and the harvest is next month for another 25 million tons, then that's going to be really, really difficult for the world. So I'm saying that this food crisis is real and we must find solutions. Of course if the war stopped that would be the quickest and best solution for everyone. But I've sent that if we had up corridors open on the Black Sea to evacuate some of Ukrainian grain that would help. If we don't find solutions, of course the ones countries that would suffer would be the countries, the poorer countries of the world. Now at WTO what are we trying to do? One is not to exacerbate the problem by having export restrictions or prohibitions of members because that tends to take the prices, make for more volatility and you know prices can spike if we do that. So our members the message to them is to try to restrain. Although it's not against WTO rules if you have that first there's a security clause that allows that to be done but it has to be temporary proportionate and transparent and reported to the WTO. But so far now we have about 22 members who have export restrictions and the idea is for that to be lower so we don't exacerbate the problem. I think our members have taken that on board. The second issue that we're looking at is of course how to multiply the supply on the world market. So any country that has additional grains that they can put on the world market we're encouraging that very much to be the case. This is a global solidarity issue and food prices issue. So that's a third thing we are looking at and of course supporting countries especially poor countries. Let's take countries in Africa to produce more for themselves is also for the medium to long term a good objective. The African Development Bank's Board has just approved $1.5 billion to support African countries to produce more of their own. They certainly have the land to do so. So these are you know some of the things that one can talk about but I really think we ought to work very hard to see how we can evacuate the Ukrainian grain in the short term. Well because if Ryan Peterson will humour me for a second because you've just mentioned that specific issue can I come back to you commissioner very briefly just to ask are you talking to Russia about creating solidarity lanes in the Black Sea to allow grain shipments from Ukraine? Well first of all in this conflict we need to be clear who is aggressor who is victim and it's Russia's unprovoked and illegal aggression against Ukraine which is creating the problem. So correspondingly we are engaging with Ukraine trying to help Ukraine to deal with this situation. Obviously there are discussions on different ways how the grain shipments can be done so already now we are ramping up the capacity to do it and this shipment is already happening through the land corridors, through Poland, through Romania and from those ports but clearly it's not a replacement we're also assessing other land options to get to other ports but clearly it's not able to replace in a short term the sea routes and the fact that currently Russia is blocking Ukrainian ports and this export of grain is not possible and indeed there are talks of creating those secure corridors possibly also with some military assistance which is guaranteeing the safety of the vessels which are actually crossing this Black Sea so clearly that would be the fastest way to unblock Ukrainian exports and if you were doing that you'd be willing to offer safe passage to Russian ships I mean how what would you here we're talking about Ukrainian ships which need to because let's not confuse the things it's Russia which is blocking Ukrainian ports not other way around so it's about well Ukrainian ships or ships coming from Ukrainian ports under which are a side which needs to be unblocked because in meanwhile of course we are seeing seeing other tendencies that Russia is looting Ukrainian grain from occupied territories it's burning down Ukrainian food storages in other territories it's destroying other Ukrainian agricultural infrastructure and equipment so clearly there is a deliberate action of Russia to create these global food security issues I guess that I guess that's why I wonder why we think why it seems possible that you might have those that safe passage when the Russians have made clear that they are willing to sustain an enormous amount of humanitarian collateral damage what do you anticipate is there an incentive you could give Russia to allow the safe passage well that's why we're working on different directions of course if there is a way to open those corridors for Ukrainian grain exports through the Black Sea from Ukrainian ports excellent in parallel as I said we're working on other land routes beefing up capacity simplifying procedures administrative procedures customs procedures both for Ukrainian imports to the EU and for transit to other countries Ryan Peterson apologies for having gone into trying to get to the bottom it's great but we're talking about Ukrainian grain but Russia is the largest grain exporter and what about Russian grain I mean we're going to have a food crisis across Africa and the developing world you could have anarchy see what happens in Sri Lanka millions of people may die it seems important to get all the grain out there I know that we're in the middle of a war and there's it's terrible but we could make it not get a lot worse I'm curious we'd love to get Ukrainian grain but what about Russian grain question he's asked question well the question is question to whom there is nothing preventing Russia from exporting its grain the fact is that Russia itself is manipulating the grain supplies seeking some kind of concessions taking sides in this conflict subject to the grain deliveries but those are manipulations of Russia there's nothing really preventing Russia from exporting its grain Russia's food supplies are not subject to anyone's sanctions so there is nothing holding Russia back except its own maligned intentions yeah so do we expect that Russian grain will reach the market this year or is it not going to happen you know I cannot respond this for Russia at the beginning of the year we were not expecting Russia waging full scale aggressive war and Russian army committing atrocities and war crimes in Ukraine can I say right miss Peterson any time you want to dive in I welcome this very proactive approach to if anyone else wants to question any other member of the panel feel free but as well as doing my work for me from from your perspective because I can see you're sitting there just a bit frustrated about the lack of action on some things you know what are you seeing when you look at supply chains when you look at the the collateral damage in the trading system that businesses are dealing with every day from this crisis and from the other snarl ups that we've seen well we've seen the last seven or eight years that you've had it almost every single year an increasing level of disruption in global trade starting you can go back to 2015 when we had a strike on the west coast of the united states and you couldn't import anything into into the united states we may have another one this summer the contract is up for renegotiation in july um you've had 2016 we had the cheapest ocean freight of all time everyone likes to talk about expensive ocean freight 2016 was the cheapest ocean freight probably in the history of humankind great for importers and exporters terrible for the asset owners they almost went in fact hanjin did go bankrupt uh korean ocean carrier 17 18 19 we had trade wars uh 2020 we had a pandemic um which caused a collapse in purchase orders and then the worst port congestion that we've seen all over the world and trade has never been more difficult and i think it's an interesting moment to ask is globalization going to continue are we going to be able to continue to trade or is it going to fray and um our system depends on peace rule of law um we've we've built like an incredible amount of prosperity off of the global trading system that is at risk right now and it's um terrible to see the human implications of that and it has me very very concerned because it uh we look at what happened with the arab spring and all these government um really anarchy almost in the middle east and that was really the result of high food prices and i i don't know how to make predictions because my predictions have been wrong the last few years but i'm still willing to do it and i predict you're going to see similar levels of crisis across any food importing nation especially the poor ones that don't have fossil fuels uh and that has me very very concerned yeah and i think if there hadn't been so many other things going on we'd be much more focused on the slowdown in china but just to quickly ask you about that our economists um have a now cast for china that shows the economy shrinking in april um every set of data that comes out is forcing people to revise down their growth forecasts obviously quite extensive lockdowns now um in china what kind of a mess is that creating as far as you can see in terms of these further disruption in trade i mean it's a little hard to say i think um i'm glad that i'm not in the position actually really of any of you have much harder jobs than me i'm trying to run a global logistics technology platform um but in china you know the population is so big india as well that when you have to make a decision and you say well it's point one percent of people you get gigantic numbers of deaths uh and so that's an incredibly difficult balance to way i'm glad i again i couldn't do your guys jobs um but they have made a decision to take health and safety and put that as a priority i think it'll be temporary i think you're going to see that chinese factories are going to come back to life in the next few weeks in the shanghai area um and uh and i hope that you know china's really the example they've lifted up half a billion people out of poverty through adoption of economic uh integration with the west with the trade uh and i think that that recipe has served them quite well so i hope that we'll see them continue in that done that path now there are quite a lot of questions coming in and we've we've managed to answer a couple of them already but i encourage everyone to put that put their questions um uh dalton goes he actually mentioned the question about uh food security and potential what might be considered um food protectionism um so there is a question how does india intend to prevent its recent wheat export ban from negatively affecting food security in developing countries and i see you've also limited sugar exports yeah i'm glad you asked that question because there's a lot of misinformation going around the place in fact this yesterday uh the director general w2 and i had a conversation on this i had a conversation with my friend weldis this morning and with christelina of the imf who i think inadvertently for lack of the whole picture made a suggestion that we should lift the wheat ban as soon as possible and after i explained the whole context to her she actually said that i'll have to set the context right in some future engagement i'd like to share a little perspective may take me a couple of minutes india traditionally has never been an exporter of grain wheat like many years ago we were importing grain our farmers toiled and we've got the green revolution into india we got self-sufficiency in rice then in wheat and over the last many years we only have been producing for our own requirement until two years ago india had no exports of wheat at all two years ago we had a nominal surplus of two million tons which is barely one percent only one percent of global wheat trade that we had as a surplus which we allowed to be exported last year and our year ends in march in the first nine months until december there was a very nominal export the world didn't need any of our wheat and we also didn't have any great surplices in the january to march period due to the conflict between ukraine and russia we suddenly saw a spurt of wheat exports but we welcomed it we could help many people most of our seven million tons that went in the last year went to bangladesh and other less developed countries and we were very happy that we could support them this year starting april our estimate was that we would produce 111 million tons against which our domestic requirement and consumption is about 105 million tons so we thought we would have about six seven million tons again which we could export unfortunately there was a huge climate problem we had a heat wave in most parts of north india which is in public domain most people i'm sure know about it due to which the wheat got shriveled and our production fell significantly in fact dr angosi feels it has fallen even more than what we estimate due to which we would actually have to draw from our food security reserves to even ensure price stability and food security of the people of india in this situation from first april to 10th of may in 40 days our wheat exports increased six times 600 percent of what had happened in the 40 days last year so we saw 2 million tons go in only 40 days and the speed with which it was going we would have had a crisis in our own country for food stability food security and pricing and therefore it was an imperative that we regulate what is being exported even now we have left the window open for countries on a government to government basis to take wheat from india because we don't want the surplus wheat available if any to go into the hands of speculators or hoarders who then charge an arm and a leg to the less developed countries or the poorer countries who would need that or the vulnerable countries would need that dream we analyse the exports and we found instead of Bangladesh or the less developed countries it was actually being exported to trading centres from where they would have all the ability to manipulate prices and therefore we regulated it we've left the window open for government to government contracts we have requested the world trade organization to remove the condition that we cannot use our green stocks procured for food security for supporting the the governments who needed the vulnerable countries if wto would consider removing that clause there would be many countries whom we could help with their grain requirement i must also share with you that our public procurement this year fell from a normal 43 to 45 million to only 18 million and the procurement season is over so even our food security stocks this year are quite stressed and we support 800 million poor in our country through these food security stocks and you would be happy to know that through the covid period we doubled the entitlement of our poor for free food grains because of which india can today proudly say despite all the challenges of covid we did not have a single starvation death through the covid period and now not a single starvation death because the government was proactive responded to the needs of our poor and gave 800 million people a regular supply of food grains using technology in a big way through a bio metric digital authorization to make sure the right person got the grain got it anywhere in india through one nation one ration card the entire database being technologically driven and therefore we believe this is a step in the right direction to ensure equitable and social distribution of any services that we have just very briefly because as as the doctor goes he pointed out this is going to be a long potentially a long running crisis because the implication the the effects of what's happening now will live on through the impact on fertilizer and on crops in the future so just quickly you know it doesn't seem like the limits you've just put on are going anywhere i mean is your expectation that they will now be in place for some time the sugar in the weak control well in the sugar also last year our total sugar exports was 10 million tons and we have said in our regulation that we'll we'll continue to look at a 10 million ton export but we'd like to make sure that speculators and holders don't get a handle on it and the most deserving vulnerable less developed countries get a priority on the excess stocks that we have so if you'll read the regulation it's very categorical every country the european countries have had many regulations in the past today there are 22 countries as the dg pointed out this morning who have regulations on food exports to protect their own security food security and i think different countries at different points of times have had to take extraordinary measures in public interest don't go easy you have your first big day out if you like the ministerial conference in june wto ministerial conference what are the concrete um what we used to call deliverables that are coming in again by out of that conference what should we look for first of all i think is the the the conference of the members so i want to i want to make sure it's a member driven organization and we're there as a secretary to support them and back them so the outcome of the conference will depend on what the members do and want so you're not thinking about it sorry haven't got some ideas about what they might think about no i absolutely do uh that's my job to have an idea so i do have ideas about what they do but i don't control how they finally end so that being said there are four pillars that we're looking at uh there's a whole pillar on reforming the wto which is really important because the wto needs to be made fit for the 21st century challenges it's a very important organization um that needs to deliver for both developing and developed countries but of course uh to do that it has to uh its rules need to be you know upgraded its negotiating function its monitoring function and the dispute settlement function part of which has not been working for some time also needs to be reformed so there's a whole agenda on wto reform that members would like to agree a process on so it's not that the reform itself is going to be done at mc 12 but we need to agree how to take this forward and have a game plan that is a calendar for achieving those reforms and see where we get at mc 13 i think the second pillar we want to look at um is the response to the pandemic um the pandemic has been going on for some time and the members have been asking themselves how does the wto and its respond to this so we are in the midst of negotiating um some agreement that we can take forward to mc 12 many people know about the trips intellectual property waiver um that developing countries put forward and uh we for quite some time we didn't make progress on that but recently members have started on a text based negotiations it's a little bit complicated but we are hoping that there'll be an outcome which we can take to mc 12 but that's not all there's another part of the response to the pandemic which has to do with trade and health measures again well how do we behave with respect to let's just take an example export restrictions and prohibitions again on on medical products and supplies uh when when there's a pandemic so our members are looking at some of these issues and we hope to have a package on the response to the pandemic the third pillar has to do with fisheries the organization has been negotiating a fisheries subsidies agreement for years 21 years and you know as everyone knows I always say I'm impatient I don't see why we shouldn't wrap this up after 21 years of negotiations we don't have to wait until our oceans have no fish before we agree on this already we it's almost 50 percent of our fish there there's the livelihood of poor uh um uh fisher women and men that depend on this so we hope that we can move forward let me put in that way move forward on the fisheries subsidies and and uh if possible come to an agreement the last pillar uh very quickly is agriculture which has been being negotiated for even longer than the fisheries subsidies and they are very distinct divides there so we are hoping that we can take a base forward to to the MC 12 for moving forward so those are the main pillars but there are also other aspects um you know that there are some what what are called plurilateral agreements going on uh on e-commerce which will upgrade uh WTO rules uh to underpin digital trade we have some activity on environment on women in trade so there are lots of interesting things that we are bringing forward also a food security agreement that we hope to sign something on the world food program humanitarian agreement so we have lots of things on the menu I hope out of this menu we can agree a few of these as deliverables as you call them may I I must compliment the director general miss uh Ngozi because it's a very tough job she has on her hands I I don't think any of us would envy her job nobody would like to be that seat in the current challenging times particularly when she has to balance the interests of the less developed or very poor countries the developing world which has the less the the smaller income the middle income the higher income all within the developing world and then the very developed countries so there's a very fine balance on a bilateral basis it's always easier but multilaterally to come to a solution on with so many different uh interests and balance them fairly and equitably a very very tough job I compliment her for her patience for her ability to bring so many different interests on the table and persevere for a solution all right well I'm sure she's very glad to have that compliment but why don't you help her how are you going to actually we're all helping we're all helping and I think we've all agreed even today in an earlier session to look at how a political consensus can be drawn trying to bring equity with different interests on the table but so there's a couple of ways to go here but I think a lot of conversations that people will have been in this week in one way or another ended up with um the fragmentation fragmentation of the global economy and can global institutions still function do they still have us a role when major members of those institutions no longer seem to be heading in the right direction so you talk about the you talk about the plurilateral agreements you say it's much easier to be on a bilateral footing how do you make the wto fit with a world in which people don't agree uh first of all what is right or wrong depends on the lens in which you look at it everybody is protecting their national interests but at the same time trying to balance the public good or what's good for the whole world and I think in that situation we'll all have to be patient if we try to push things through it's going to land up creating more problems and to my mind all of us the members of the wto are completely in solidarity with the effort the secretary and the teams are making we all have different interests the us has different interests Europe India amongst the developing world we have countries with two thousand dollars per capita income 10,000 and even 20,000 so everybody would have a different interest so I think it's uh it's work in progress and we should give it more time many areas agriculture as she said is going on for 30 years so we have to come to a conclusion on many issues commissioner how are you going to help dr ngozi have a successful ministerial conference well indeed I would say especially in current geobold call situation it's important to preserve the role and strengthen multilateral organizations and clearly world trade organization so we are heading towards this 12th ministerial conference in a constructive spirit willing to facilitate agreements in a fact on a number of topics we had come forward with concrete proposals like concerning the wto reform itself because it's clear that also the wto rule book needs to be brought in 21st centuries and also reflect changed realities changed economic realities which we are facing I fully agree we ought to conclude fisheries subsidies agreement and not to lose sight of the environmental objectives of this agreement to avoid illegal unreported unregulated fishing to avoid overfishing to ensure that our fish stocks are actually sustainable that's our global responsibility to work on agriculture and now obviously there is a urgent issue to deal concerning the food security where world trade organization obviously has a word to say discussions concerning various aspects of e-commerce pandemic post pandemic issues so there are many issues to be dealt with and indeed we need to work in a constructive spirit and seek practical tangible outcomes at mc 12 can I can I well thank you Stephanie for eliciting so much love for me it's wonderful um I just want to say that you know as Piyush mentioned it's very difficult uh to agree things multilaterally and that has been plaguing the wto and we shouldn't make light of it and that's why we need to find ways forward to agree some things to show that the organization can can function um but what I wanted to say is let's not take the multilateral trading system lightly you know people are talking a lot of fragmentation of moving away from multilateralism in practical terms there's a lot of geopolitical tension but the counterfactual to having a multilateral organization people need to look at that it's very costly um and and you know only the poorer and weaker countries would suffer because if the if you don't have such an organization imagine a poor country in a developing part of the world trying to have a bilateral agreement with a larger country how do you think that will look if you had to do that for almost everything it would be very difficult so we need that multilateralism lastly some problems we have now of the global commons cannot be solved by any one country alone and we are facing this simultaneous crisis of the global commons which needs the kind of solidarity that a multilateral setting provides therefore you can't solve the pandemic on your own you can't solve a climate change on your own you can't even solve food on your own because we have net food in porting countries you don't have the ability to grow their own food so we are in it together and therefore that's why we need to strengthen organizations like the WTO and make sure we uh don't take it lightly about its breaking or falling apart we i've just noticed we've practically run out of time so but i i did there's quite a few questions to Ryan Peterson so i think i'm going to end up maybe giving you the last word um which is but there's a couple of questions but basically there are various versions of the same one which is how can can you tell us how it can help solve some of the trade disruptions that we're seeing yeah and so i run a technology company so you probably think i'm going to talk about big data or machine learning satellites but actually the technology that takes going to be the most important in the next year or two is an ancient one we've um actually a 2000 years ago maritime insurance was invented in Rome to provide security for people who were going to Egypt to get grain and bring it back to Rome and we're going to need to find insurance solutions so that ships can go into the black sea in a war zone get grain and leave because i don't know that the private sector alone is going to do that i think they'll end up uh not wanting to take that risk if i own the ship i don't want to lose my ship it's too expensive and this is where a role for for government perhaps could come in and provide some kind of a backstop of insurance that was we've seen in many other places but i think something like that is probably the most important technology right now well like many conversations this week it's begun and ended with some aspect of the ukraine crisis but in the meantime we got a bit of help certainly a lot of love for dr ngozi um looking forward to your ministerial conference and some explanations of of the other elements of trade policy at the moment so thank you very much thank you because i'm going to the questions