 Hello everyone. I'm Jim Garrison. I want to welcome you to this session of Humanity Rising as we complete a five-day program on whistleblowers. We will be continuing this discussion into the future because this issue of how citizens, whether in government or in major corporations or in prevailing large institutions, grapple with the reality that the media is now actively and pervasively controlled by our governments and a single narrative is being spun out in the news. Descent is being squashed almost everywhere. What does a citizen do when they uncover the truth that's in variance and contradiction with what is being told to the public? There's been a rich history around the world and in the United States, really starting in the modern era with Daniel Ellsberg back during the Vietnam War, of real closet patriots who stand up for what truth means, even though the prevailing institutions bring down the full weight of coercion and prosecution in many cases. So this is a very, very important issue at a time of an absence, essentially, of meaningful free speech in the news. I'd like to start today, though, with what's been going on in Gaza because that is a situation where both the Israelis and the US government are doing everything they can to block communications, the internet, cell phones, any videos, any reports coming from the carnage that's now being unfolding before the world community as Israel pounds Gaza day by day. And I want to just single out the statement that was made by the head of UNICEF yesterday by the count of the Palestinian, the Gaza national authority. There's been, as of yesterday, 3,450 children that have been officially designated as dead, although most of them are still under the rubble as the Israelis continue to carpet bomb much of Gaza, having cut off food, water, electricity, allowing only a trickle of humanitarian relief to come through in succession of acts that have really caused revulsion in the global community. And the UNICEF said that even if you just take the official count, not the projected number, which is two to three times that amount, just the official count of 3,450 children killed by the Israelis in the last three weeks, that's the equivalent of all the children that have died or been killed in all the conflicts around the world since the beginning of 2019. If one calculates the actual number, which is at least two to three, if not four or five times that amount, given the fact that nearly 50% of the entire population of Gaza is under 20 years old, 40% are under 16. You have more children killed than has happened around the world in decades, all in three weeks. What we're witnessing, everyone, is a level of criminality against humanity that is unprecedented for a very long time. You'd have to go back very far in history to find an equivalent massacre taking place in broad daylight. And as the rest of the world maneuvers at the UN, calls for ceasefire, more humanitarian aid, meaningful negotiations for a two-state solution, it is essentially only the United States and Israel and Britain that are refusing to engage in a ceasefire or meaningful negotiations or allow more humanitarian aid, even though President Biden did say yesterday that it might be worth considering that there should be a pause, but no one quite knows what that means. So we're in a situation where the pressure on Israel in the United States is growing from the rest of the world and how much longer the Israelis in the US will continue to carpet bomb Gaza, killing massive numbers of civilians in a complete violation of human rights, international law, and engage in a crime against humanity and a crime specifically against innocent children remains to be seen. But we're witnessing probably the greatest debacle of foreign and military policy in a significantly long time around the world. And they're doing everything they can to keep us from knowing what the full truth is. So welcome to humanity rising as we continue these kinds of discussions. And I want to welcome now Jodi Evans, the co-founder of Code Pink who's co-moderating our sessions and the program this week. Jodi, thank you. And I turn the program over to you. Thank you, Jim. And thank you for starting us out with some truth. Truth is treason and an empire of lies. So all of you just welcome back as we finish this week that's been pulling back the curtain even further to expose the lies of the empire and how our hearts and minds are weaponized for war, violence, and oppression. Our special guest today is Steven Donziger, who's an attorney who spent decades taking on chevron around its destruction of a pristine ecosystem and representing 30,000 farmers and indigenous peoples in Ecuador. And I'm going to leave him to tell his story because he does a much better job than I can. But, you know, we're talking about lies and distortions of which he'll share, but here's what's important also about this story is the utter silencing of his story in mainstream media. You know, being put in jail for a misdemeanor, a lawyer, the someone who had such a huge success for the people that is just utterly ignored. And so we're talking this week about how the media distortion and lies use you but we also need to remember that there's a lot of truths we're not told that aren't allowed to get into the very controlled mainstream media operation. And so that's that's another piece of what you have to look for is what aren't you being told. And, you know, you needed to be in the dark corners, you know, you had to find this story or know the story. It's all very outrageous as the stories of this week had been. They tell us lies to control us and they hide the truth to control us. And especially the truth tellers that are fighting for justice and for life to continue on the planet. So I want to turn us over to my dear friend, Steve, who I have watched fight this battle for many years. He is tireless, tenacious, brilliant, and deeply committed to the oppressed of the world, including his amazing support of Indigenous people's struggles, and his voracious uplifting of stories from Gaza these past three plus weeks. Justice is what love looks like in action and Steve is it. Welcome to humanity rising. Thank you so much, Jody. I so much respect for you and all you've done over the course of your life and continue to do. And thank you for that great introduction. I'm honored to be here. I'm gonna, I know we have limited time. I'm gonna just brief try to briefly tell what is a pretty long story and, you know, maybe we can open it up for questions and stuff. I'll start by saying, I think my my story is an example of really what Jody just put her finger on, which is when one does organizing that is particularly effective at challenging the power structure, it's very hard to predict what the power structure will do in response. You do know there will be a reaction, though. And what happened to me after working many years as a lawyer on behalf of indigenous peoples and farmer communities in the Amazon region of Ecuador is an example. In a nutshell, back in the early 1990s, I began working with a group of lawyers to represent these communities against Texaco, an American oil company that had operated in this region for 20, 25 years and had designed a system of oil extraction that was deliberately dumping literally millions of gallons of cancer causing oil waste on a daily basis into the rivers and streams that the indigenous peoples of the region were relying on for their drinking water, their bathing and their fishing. And over time, this had predictable results, illnesses, cancers and deaths as a result of exposures to this poisoned drinking water skyrocketed. Thousands of people had died and the indigenous groups in this area who had lived there for millennia in great prosperity have seen their cultures decimated and they face just enormous challenges just to stave off extinction. This is an example of the structural violence that exists in our world. You know, the videos we're seeing out of Gaza now is an example of violence. Violence can take many forms and I think some of the forms violence takes are hard to spot with the naked eye unless you're trained to sort of understand how it works. Poverty, for example, structural poverty that we have in the United States and so many parts of the world is a form of violence that kills people. You know, an oil company polluting an ecosystem that thousands of people rely on for their sustenance for their life, for their survival, not just people by the way, but you know, species and trees and animals and all sorts of life forms that live in this extremely biodiverse area. This is another form of violence and you know, we organize these communities. When I say we, I mean lawyers from the United States and lawyers from Ecuador and we filed a lawsuit and over time, despite efforts by Texaco and then Chevron, second American oil company, which bought Texaco in 2001 despite their efforts to essentially sabotage the trial and prevent any accountability, we won the case in 2011. It was affirmed on appeal in Ecuador by their Supreme Court in 2013 and Chevron has since refused to pay the first dollar of a historic 10 billion dollar judgment won by indigenous peoples and farmer communities in Ecuador. I say historic because there's never been this level of achievement legally in a court of law by indigenous communities anywhere in the world against a polluter. And as many of you probably know, indigenous peoples live on land that essentially contains about 80% of the world's extractive resources. These are the frontline defenders of the planet. They defend the planet for all of life. They're on the front. People like me who I care deeply about climate issues and about environmental justice are helping them on the front lines. Me as a lawyer and others as campaigners and doing whatever else they do to help bring about climate justice in this world. So the achievement of the case was I think too much for the system to handle and Chevron, which controlled, was defending the case at the time because they had bought Texaco, decided rather than to pay the people the company had poisoned in Ecuador, they went after me as the lawyer. They targeted me and what is probably the most well financed, vicious corporate retaliation campaign targeting one person in the history of our country. As an example, this is some of the things I faced. Number one is they sued me personally in New York, even though they had agreed to have the case held in Ecuador and had accepted jurisdiction there. They sued me for $60 billion, $60 billion, not million, billion dollars. I got sued for the most amount of money of any individual in the history of the United States of America. That's me. They then on the eve of this civil trial where they sued me on this theory that we had committed fraud to obtain the judgment in Ecuador, which by the way has been rejected by six different appellate courts in Ecuador and Canada and 28 appellate judges, but there was a trial judge in the United States who had investments in Chevron, very pro-corporate, and he denied me a jury and on the basis of the fact that on the eve of trial Chevron was so scared they would lose, they dropped all the $60 billion in damages claims against me and they did the trial anyway without a jury. The judge wouldn't let me defend myself, was very biased. It was essentially a show trial and he found me libel for committing fraud in Ecuador and then he imposed millions of dollars of court costs on me. In other words, after denying me a jury on the theory that they were no longer suing me for money because they had dropped the claim, he still, even though I never got a jury, imposed all these costs on me afterwards, essentially had the same result and wiped me out financially such that today, the way I support myself, the way I pay my legal fees, the way I campaign is I have a legal defense fund that I raise money and that helps me do my work, but I don't even have a bank account in my name right now because of Chevron supposedly has judgments against me for millions of millions of dollars. The other thing they did is essentially a smear campaign. Chevron has paid investigations firms, public relations firms, they created a website about me, both in English and Spanish to target me and try to bring down my reputation. Despite like these attacks, we kept going and we won a unanimous Supreme Court decision in Canadian courts allowing the communities in Ecuador to continue to enforce their judgment to try to collect Chevron's assets in Canada to force them to comply with the judgment in Ecuador that I and the other lawyers had won on behalf of the communities. When that happened, Chevron concocted this scheme, this maneuver to get the US judge to charge me with contempt of court, criminal contempt of court. This is very unusual. The basis of the charge was that I had been ordered to give Chevron my computer in confidential case file as a lawyer in the middle of a litigation. I mean, I don't know how many of you folks are lawyers, but this is just unheard of. There's never been an order that a lawyer turn over his confidential case file and computer to adversary counsel in the middle of a litigation. I appealed that order, which I believe and still believe is patently illegal. Right after I appealed it, the judge charging with criminal contempt of court for appealing this order that was before a higher court. And he forced me to face these criminal charges. And when I went to court, I realized that I was not being prosecuted by the US government in a normal criminal case. Actually, in every criminal case, the prosecutor is a government professional, a prosecutor in the prosecutor's office. I should say almost every case 99.9% of cases. In my case, the prosecutor refused to prosecute me based on the judge's charges. And he appointed a Chevron law firm to prosecute me. Think about that. I came to court and was facing a Chevron private lawyer acting in the name of the US government to try to put me in jail. I am the target. Earlier said, I was sued for more money than anyone in US history. The other unusual feature of this journey is that I'm still, I was and I'm still the only person in US history ever to be prosecuted by a private corporation. The case was a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of six months in prison. It's the lowest level federal offense. In the history of this country, there has never been a lawyer locked up for contempt of court on a misdemeanor. It's never happened. I walk into court and pre-trial, they locked me up, put an ankle bracelet on me. I had to go home and never to leave. And because of COVID and other reasons, the trial kept getting delayed. And I ended up spending two years and two months in house arrest in my two bedroom apartment in Manhattan, where by the way, I am right now, before I could even get to court. In a case with a maximum sentence of six months in prison. In other words, I was detained more than four times the maximum sentence before I even had a trial. And the judge who was overseeing the case, who was appointed by the judge who charged me, who was sort of working in sync with the private Chevron prosecutor, were just sort of laughing at every request I or my lawyers made to let me be free pending trial, hadn't been convicted. And then when the trial finally happened, I had no chance. I was again denied a jury, I think illegally. The judge refused to let me testify as to my defenses, as to my state of mind. And ultimately, she convicted me. And on top of the two years and two months, she sentenced me to the maximum term of six months in prison. But the net result that I ended up spending 993 days detained on a misdemeanor criminal contempt of court charge that had a maximum sentence of 180 days. And all of this just ended, not completely, but like my, I got my freedom back on April 25 of 2022. So this was like a year and a half ago. I got the ankle bracelet off. But they still won't let me travel out of the country. They're keeping my passport, this judge who charged me. They also have taken away my law license based on this non jury finding by the judge I committed fraud and Ecuador that's been rejected by 28 appellate judges and Ecuador and Canada. And they essentially have tried to take away all my money, all my assets and silence me forever, destroy me. Now here's the good news that that's probably a little demoralizing, but here's the good news. Okay, the good news is it didn't work. Because here I am speaking and I'm writing a book and I'm giving speeches all over the place. I was with Jody a few weeks ago in LA and I even got an award. I'm not that into awards, but I'm happy to get any award because it brings visibility to the plight of the Indigenous peoples of Ecuador for whom I'm still fighting. And I also rather than lay down, I started defense fund. And, you know, my expenses are enormous. Like I ended up taking my appeal of the criminal misdemeanor contempt conviction by the Chevron lawyer to the US Supreme Court. It costs a lot of money to get lawyers to do that. I mean, many lawyers actually worked for me pro bono, but others can't afford to and they're really good lawyers. So anyway, I literally had over 20,000 people around the world who donated, made a small donation to my defense fund. So I've been able to build up the support. 68 Nobel laureates have signed a letter to President Biden asking him to pardon me. And also 120 NGOs, civil society organizations also signed a letter to President Biden asking him to pardon me. And just so you know, in a few days, I'm going to relaunch my pardon campaign in light of a change of circumstances because the US Supreme Court to justices issued a decision basically saying my entire case should be thrown out. The justices, by the way, are Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh, who generally I don't agree with on pretty much everything. They're very conservative and I would say extremist on many issues. But they saw what happened to me and they were really deeply, deeply offended as I think anybody would be if they believe in the rule of law. So you know, what are the lessons of all this? And I'll stop in just a couple of minutes and we can open up the discussion. I mean, one is, I've sort of learned that when you fight the power structure, and you don't get any resistance, you're probably not being that effective. So if you want to be effective in fighting the power structure, you need to prepare yourself to deal with what they might throw at you, meaning you've got to have support financially and emotionally. You've got to have the solidarity to really get through it. That's how I got through this really dark period. And by the way, I live with my wife and son, who's now a senior in high school. He's applying to college right now. But from ninth grade to eleventh grade, he had a dad who couldn't leave the home and had an ankle brace. It's not like we live in a big home. We live in a two bedroom apartment in a building in Manhattan. That was my place I couldn't leave for. And I'd sit over here. There's like a window right here. I'll just show you. See this window right here? I'd basically sit right here. I called at my beach and I just stick my head out the window to get sun in the hours of the day. If me in the winter, there wasn't a lot of sunshine, but I had to get vitamin D and just keep myself healthy. I worked out every day and I was really, really determined to not let them take my happiness from me or my family. And I think we succeeded. And that took a lot of support, a lot of resilience from me personally, from my family. But we really, I mean, I know this sounds probably crazy. We really grew from the experience and we're much stronger now and much more connected to issues of justice and to people who work on issues of justice. So I have never seen a situation where, you know, when you do social justice work and you meet resistance that there hasn't been some opportunity embedded in that resistance. Okay, I'm just telling you the opportunity for me when I got locked up was to flip the frame and build off, build the support off of it and build a global campaign off of it. So if you're going to go out into the world and do this work, I would really urge you to look at my experience as an example of A, what the system will do to try to silence you, like it will engage in naked corruption if it's too, you know, if you're too threatening. Like I actually feel like that's what I'm watching in Gaza right now. It's like they just don't care what they look like. I mean, when they're so hell bent on carrying out this project, which I believe is one of ethnic cleansing, they, when they have their moment, when they have their opportunity, they almost don't care what the world thinks. I think they do a little bit, do a little bit. But they're, you know, they just don't mind committing brazen human rights violations on television. I mean, you just watch it, just televised what we're watching in Gaza. In my case, like the idea they would let Chevron prosecute me in the name of the US government and the US Department of Justice would let that happen or Attorney General Merrick Garland would let that happen. They just get completely naked in their failure to respect the rule of law that they profess to comply with. They get completely naked in their willingness to openly corrupt legal processes in order to achieve their objectives. And I believe that's what they did to me. And I believe that's what we're seeing right now in Gaza. And I believe this happens. Unfortunately, with increasing frequency all over the world, we see this with Alexei Navalny in Russia right now. You know, the gentleman who's opposed Putin, and he's now in jail for 30 years on bogus tax fraud charges. And we see this in Atlanta, Georgia. I don't know if you folks know what's happening in Atlanta on Monday, on Monday of next week, 61 defendants in a Rico case, a racketeering case who have been opposing this police training academy called top city. And we're charged with crimes where they're faced 35 years in prison. I mean, many of them are charged with terrorism for engaging in peaceful civil disobedience. And we're seeing the law being turned into a weapon to attack activists more and more. And it's like, really, I'm a lawyer. I mean, a little bit about me. I went, you know, for whatever this is worth, I don't think this matters that much, except I want to make this point. It's not like I'm just anybody. Like I went to Harvard Law School in the same class as Barack Obama and Neil Gorsuch, who's a US Supreme Court justice. You know, I know a lot of people. I come from relative privilege. I'm a white man in America. Okay. And they wanted to, we all know the problems of people of color and the criminal justice system in America, the many, many problems of over incarceration, racism, police brutality. Okay. They did this to me through a private corporation. They don't care if you're threatening enough, they will try to destroy you. And I've had to use every skill I've developed, every wit I have in my head, every ounce of guile I could muster, every dollar I could get people to give me to get through this. And by the way, not everyone out there who gets hit with this shit has the ability to generate resources like I was able to do. You know, so I was able to get through it, but it's not over because I'm still fighting for my passport. I'm fighting for a pardon. And I want you to know my mentality. Okay. I don't give a shit really how this turns out, as long as I know I'm going to keep fighting. That's how I can live with myself. And it's the best way I know how to help my clients in Ecuador and also all the other people around the world that I try to help raise visibility in terms of their human rights violations like I've been doing of late with the people of Gaza. Okay. So, you know, I trust the universe. I trust the gods and whatever contribution, whatever humble contribution I can make in my own way for whatever issue I'm working on, I try to do even if I have to sit in my house all day, which I don't know. I can go outside and have lunch and walk around and travel domestically. But the battle is not over because the reality is they could put me back in jail the same way they already did because I still never gave them my computer. And the judge in Chevron, if they feel I'm threatening enough could create another charge, contempt charge and do the same damn thing because no court stopped them. No court stopped this private corporate prosecution. So it's essentially legal. It's legal. I mean, I don't think a lot of judges would do it. I don't think hardly anyone, maybe just this one guy, maybe it'll never happen again. But like the way to deal with this is we got to organize. I want you folks to know about my case. I do need help the more visibility and support I have the harder it is for them to go after me again. And, you know, many of you were thousands of people out there have tried to help me and have helped me. And without that support, I never could have gotten through this. So I'll close by saying that if you do want to help me, I have a website called free Donziger.com, F-R-E-E-D-O-N-Z-I-G-E-R. And on that website is a lot of information and a button to donate to the defense fund. I'm not saying this because I want you to donate. Of course, I mean, if you can donate great, but I really want you involved and aware of what I'm doing. And especially as we launch this renewed pardon campaign, I'd love to have everyone sign on. We're going to do a global petition once we launch in a few days. So I'll close there and open it up and see if there's any questions. Thank you. I mean, I don't know how many times I've heard the story. I've lived through the story and every time it's just, I get so outraged and you're so right. We're, it's that experience of absolute no justice. And that especially, I think, to be an attorney and knowing what is supposed to be there that is not only not there, but the opposite is happening. And I think you're right to compare it to what's happening in Gaza right now that yet again, it's because it's about you, but it's also about those 30,000 people you were representing that don't even get mentioned, you know, that are dying of horrible deaths that had a pristine paradise to live in that got destroyed, that, you know, it's, that's 30,000 people whose lives were just turned upside down with absolutely not a care. And then in that same way as we're witnessing right now that actually people in power and people with money can basically look at them, I mean, in ways worse than animals, like not human, not even not to be cared about. So, yeah, it's a it's a window into so much. I'm just curious because I and everybody should follow Sivan all his social medias, because his passion doesn't end with his case or with his self, but with so many others, that he's constantly uplifting where the oppressed are being beaten back, and where they are fighting, and where the conversation works to undermine what that fight means, what justice means, that even the distortion of what is happening is contorted at a level that is hard to find your way out of because it's so it's so lost in a dark place that you actually don't even want to follow the trajectory. And, you know, even the top city he mentioned is connected to Israel, and that a lot of the train the most violent training in the world in Latin America and in the United States comes from the IDF in Israel. And now we're watching that cold brutal murdering happen daily in the most horrific ways. So, I, you know, like, you said something really important about what it's like to tell the truth and what will come at you and to be ready. And so, you know, having that courage, but maybe you could just talk about how did it affect you because you were already fighting for justice your whole life. This isn't the first case. You've done some amazing shit in your life. You were the cases yours because you were always fighting for the press, always fighting, you know, where your fight was needed. And so this isn't, it wasn't new to you, oppression and power, but in having the personal experience of it, did you see power in a different way? You, you know, white male Harvard graduate betraying your your class. Yeah, I mean, I that's an interesting question. I mean, I think one reason they went after me with such ferocity is because I am a white privileged male who betrayed my class. I think that is really threatening to them. Am I going to much deeper way than, you know, another non white person doing what I did? And I was also able to leverage my Harvard credibility to get a lot done, you know, and they wanted to destroy me. I mean, I was I was a terrible simp to not just the Chevrons of the world and the fossil fuel industry, but also the whole corporate class. I mean, they don't want, you know, the elite law schools in the United States to produce lawyers like me. And the crazy thing is, I mean, I just spoke at Columbia Law School two weeks ago. It's literally 10 blocks from here. And I've been working on this case 28 years. I went 27 years living like right nearby Columbia. Well, not a whole 27. I've lived here since 2006 so like 16 years. I never got invited to speak at Columbia Law School until last year when a student group invited me. And it was packed. I mean, there must have been 150 people lying out the door. And I realized not just from that talk, but like lots of talks I've given to law schools, there is such a hunger, such an appetite from students, from law students, from other students to figure out how to do this work. And there is there are no courses or professors in these law schools who teach this. Well, you know, what, well, first of all, generally, you don't get on the law faculty by doing this work. They try to keep you off. But I am, you know, I really love teaching. And I think there's something here, and I'm talking to some other lawyers about forming a law, an online law class, to teach this work, to teach how to do human rights work, especially against corporations. You know, it's sort of more traditional to do a human rights job as a lawyer, if you like human rights watch or Amnesty International or, you know, an NGO, like, when you're going after a corporation like Chevron, and literally, by the way, I didn't mention this, they spent, they've spent $3 billion going after me. Okay, they have used 60 law firms and 2000 lawyers. When I was litigating that case where they sued me for $60 billion, I had 150 lawyers on that one case, and I was representing myself alone, it's called Proce. They thought I would just flip out, and I kept my cool the whole time. And, you know, look, I do have a really, I've had the good fortune of having a really good education, and I have a lot of experience. I was not going to get off my game, and I was really determined. I knew what they were trying to do, and I was not going to let them destroy me. And, but there needs to be more education about how to do this work. There is tremendous excitement out there among the youth to do this work. And I will also say, for those of you thinking about being lawyers, I don't even know who is on this call. I don't know, is it mostly young people or is it all types of people? I don't even, are there students on this call? And from out, from all over the world, actually. Yeah, what I was going to say is, in the legal realm, there are a lot of exciting things happening to advance the cause of human rights and climate justice right now, including in the United States. And I would argue, there's a lot of interesting cases, California just sued the whole fossil fuel industry, which is really cool. I mean, that is a potential game changer in the US fossil fuel industry in terms of, you know, the phase out of this whole planet destroying sector of our economy. And I would argue that these cases are really starting to move now. There's victories, there's progress. And it really is a result, I think, largely of us, of people, of the movement. And in my experience, and this is the big mistake law schools make, but it's maybe it's not a mistake, maybe it's by design, like law schools train lawyers to think that you can solve all these problems through the law. No, the law always lack and justice issues always lags behind what's happening on the street. So, you know, as the climate movement has grown stronger, and it certainly has over the last year or two years in particular, all over the world, great leadership, so many countries, so many activists, so many people putting their bodies on the line, engaging in civil disobedience, forcing the conversation. And then, of course, the objective reality of the destruction of the planet is evident to everybody, even judges, or have to live with this shit, right? Like in New York, we had smoke that enveloped Manhattan last summer and every judge was, you know, just like I was and everyone else had to deal with it. And we are seeing tremendous progress, not enough, but it's because it's coming from us. You see the civil rights movement in the United States too, like how did apartheid in the US end, they call it segregation, it's apartheid folks, because we had apartheid in the United States. It ended because of the movement, because of people, the civil rights movement, which is obviously led by people of color, but a broad coalition of people. And I would say that that's true about Gaza, I mean. Yeah, I would totally. The first cast lead in 2009, we were out in the streets, nobody was with us, people used to think they could beat me up because I was, you know, champion Gaza. And we took a thousand people in 2009 to visit and every single one came back, barely could talk for a month because of the reality that they were denied. So that goes back to a denied reality that if you're, you know, there's very few reporters in Gaza, film crews can't get in, no one can get in. So here again is the silent place that we had to build the friendships for and the truth about that wouldn't have let it even be what it is in this moment because the lies would have been spun in such a way to use everyone, but we've been able to pull people off of the lie into the truth over the last 13 years to make that breadth, you know, bigger as more people are being educated in the last three weeks. Well, Jim, I wanted to know if you wanted to ask a question before we let Steve go. Did I lose you? Looks like we lost Jim. Oh no, here he is. I am here and Steve, I am, I'm astonished because I'd known about you generally, but I have to say I had no idea the extent to which they've gone after you. I don't know, you know, I spent a lot of time with Danny Sheehan, who I'm sure you know. Danny is probably the lawyer in the world I most admire. I just love that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was just thinking we got to get Danny in on this one. I'm just writing it down. I got to call him. I owe him a call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to bring in reinforcements, Matt. You know, this is... He was on Wednesday. Oh, he was, okay. Yeah, he's a very close friend of mine since our Harvard days. And, you know, he's got, as you know, he's got a rare intelligence that can really penetrate to the core of things. And I think he's never lost a case. I don't know, but he's batting close to a thousand after 50 years in the law courts. But I just want to express my deepest sympathy to what you've been through, because it's, you're right, it's unprecedented. Yeah. And why Chevron would take such an extreme action against you around something like this seems a little, seems puzzling, because they, you know, treat indigenous people with such disregard systematically. It didn't seem like they needed to take you on and wipe you out in addition to their normal patterns of behavior. So you must be an extremely good lawyer in your own right? I was going to say, you got to do something big to get sued for seeing that, right? Well, you know what Lyndon Johnson used to say, that you could measure a man's stature, he said, by the stature of his enemies. And of course he was talking about Washington politics. That's really, that's really good. What I'd like to know, knowing that you have to go, how can we help? Because I want to help you. I want to, if you can put in the chat, you know, your website or defense fund. I put it in the chat, Jim. Oh, okay. I didn't see that. In the chat, if you go to my website, we'll process of updating it in preparation for the launch of this pardon campaign. But just go there, get familiar with it. Give us your email, you'll get on the list. We have regular sort of letters. They're usually like fundraising letters, but they always contain information. And, you know, just be, we're creating a campaign and then we're sort of broadening it out to deal with other issues like this, yeah, got to issue. And I just want to say before I go about Gaza, you know, I mentioned earlier, like, I have some, you know, mild degree of optimism that the law can play a helpful role in terms of climate justice. You know, the obvious next step in the Gaza, what we're witnessing in Gaza is a war crimes prosecution of the people in Israel, including Netanyahu, who are the architects of what is a mass civilian slaughter. Some people call it genocide. And I think there's ample evidence, like legal evidence, factual evidence that this is a genocide just based on what the Israeli officials have been saying out of the words out of their own mouths. So, you know, the law to me is never, you know, the only way to solve a problem or address a problem, but it can be very helpful in combination with movement activity, campaigning, movement, lawyering, citizen action, citizen journalism, all those kinds of things. And like one thing that I think is different, and I'm so happy to be engaging with you folks, because like, I'm just curious what you think of this. You know, I'm an old dude, I'm 62. You guys are young. I keep saying I'm old, someone's saying, we're all young, we're all old. You're not old yet, man, trust me. We've all, at least Jody and you and I have witnessed a lot of stuff going on in Gaza through the years. I mean, this is not the first military conflict. Okay. But what really is different about this one than all the other times Israel invaded Gaza, you know, since Israel had supposedly had left in 2005? I mean, one main difference that I've noticed is social media. Like there are so many people in Gaza who are documenting these atrocities committed by the Israeli government and spreading them out to the world, that the information environment, which as we know, you know, Israel, all these big countries and their militaries spent a lot of time trying to control how people think, the information environment has become very unfavorable to Israel. I mean, in recent days, recent weeks, just it cannot be unprecedented that all the brave citizen journalists in Gaza, you know, people, photographers, just regular folks with their phones are have completely reshaped how people think about this compared to say a month ago. I mean, it's extraordinary. So my point is, I don't think the Israeli government or any government can hide human rights crimes, war crimes, like they used to be able to. And I think all of these videos, all of these people documenting these atrocities are going to be potential witnesses in a war crimes prosecution, which to me is the next phase to prevent this kind of thing from continuing to happen again and again and again. You know, so getting rid of this legal impunity around Israel and around the United States and around many Western leaders. I mean, Putin's been charged with war crimes, right? Like, why is it that Western leaders who do this never seem always seem to escape accountability under international law? You know, so I think that's the next move for the global justice movement as regards Gaza. I mean, obviously, beyond getting this madness to stop and saving as many lives as possible and protecting the right of Palestinians to self determination, like those have to be key. But part of that process, I think the law can play a critical role in imposing accountability on the people who are doing this. Well, you know, one thinks of George Floyd. Yeah, no one would have ever heard of his murder had it not for that teenage girl with her iPhone. That's right. Simply recording nine minutes of a guy being suffocated to death with a top's boot on his throat. Yeah. And you know, people, I would urge media matters for sure. Yeah. And whether you're a lawyer, citizen, whatever you do, keep your camera handy, because like, you never know when you're going to be in a situation where you can change how millions of people think if you can document something. And you know, there's no accident. And by the way, I read from Columbia Journalism Review just yesterday. Do you know 39 journalists covering the war or it's not even a war that's whatever the hell you want to call it in Gaza have been killed since October 7 30, and their families and their families, targeted, targeted. Clearly, Israel is targeting journalists for precisely this reason. Israel doesn't want the truth tellers, the people, the journalists, I used to be a journalist. This cuts really deep for me. You know, the journalists are being targeted and murdered to prevent truth from getting out. And it's not working, obviously, because it's getting out. But it's awful. So anyway, I'll stop there. I'm sort of on my little bit on my high horse. It's so unbelievable. I think we're all on our high horses. That's remarkable. This has been just remarkable. And I'd like to have you just take a moment, Steve, just to summarize anything you would like to say finally to our global audience. And then, Jody, why don't you make a close and then we'll end the program. But Steve, what would you like to share? Thank you. I don't really know what more I can say except I guess I'll leave with two thoughts. One is thank you for having me. I'm truly honored. People invite me and they think they're imposing on my time. But the truth is, I love it because it's curative for me to share my story. And it makes me feel better. The second thing is never give up. Have hope. I know the world can look really difficult, but as someone far more well known than me once said, the night is darkest in the hour before the dawn. We're never that far away from the next phase of light, justice, and progress. I'm not saying it's easy. It's not. And I'm not saying it's around the corner. It definitely is not. But we owe it to our ancestors, to all of life, ecosystems, indigenous peoples who are really the protectors of this precious earth. And to our children and our grandchildren and future generations to do all we can at all times, no matter how dire it might feel or seem. So that's something I would urge everyone to think about and really come to grips with and do what you can in your little slice of the world and your community and your job workplace and in your head to sort of advance the cause of justice. Have hope. That's the message I'd like to leave with people. Well, after what you've been through, Steve, for you to be able to say that is an extraordinary testament to your character and fortitude of spirit. So I just want to acknowledge that on behalf of all of us here at Humanity Rising. Well, you're so kind to say that. And I want to thank you folks for doing what you're doing to advance the cause of justice in the world and to educate people. I really appreciate what you do. Well, we'll have you back on soon so that you can continue to use this platform as a portal for global communication. So thank you. Thank you so much. We'll be in touch. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So here we finish another week with Humanity Rising where we try to peel back the onion of the oppression, destruction and persecution of power and figure out how we can be free from it, understand it, be able to share more with our friends and our loved ones to help them be liberated from it, and to continue to be in resistance. As Steve said, its life depends on us. And if we let go, we're part of the problem. And if we hold on and we hold hands together and we move forward and not being silenced, not letting them make us afraid, but instead celebrating life together and moving towards life as obviously they've thrown a suicide mission that we're not going to join them on. I want to remind everybody that this weekend there are lots of opportunities to be engaged. There's marches in San Francisco and D.C. major marches and there's marches in cities around the country. If you can't be at a march, you can go to the Kudping website, there's a Zoom call you can be on to be marching in social media together with Danica, who you met yesterday. She'll spend two hours with you and instruct you on how to also be marching but using social media to disrupt. And it continues after this weekend. Raise your voice, use your voice, learn what needs to be learned, share it with those you love. We have to continue in this moment of darkness to be the light. And that's up to all of us. Thank you, Jim, for inviting me to humanity and rising again to share some of the work that we do at Kudping and we invite anyone to be engaged with us. We have something to do. We give you things to do all week, every week. And next week we're really busy including coming together after the marches with how we feel and what we need and things that we can do together as we're going to let the mothers lead for the next few weeks locally and globally. So join us and thank you for all you do for peace and for justice. Thank you, Jody. Thank you so much. And I rank you along with Steve Doniger as one of the great spirits of our time because like Steve, you've been on the front line for years and years and years and you carry such a vibrancy of spirit and such a positivity of feeling tone whenever you appear on humanity rising. It's really an astonishment and an inspiration, I think, for all of us. And I want to commend Code Pink, everyone, if you need any information about what's going on on the front lines of social justice, go to the Code Pink website for information on the marches. This weekend I'll be marching with hopefully tens of thousands of others tomorrow here in Washington. And it's one of those moments, everyone, where you got to take a stand. It's not enough to be a bystander and kind of wish people well. It's a time when we need to take stands and be counted for what the truth is at a time of extraordinary duress. And as we're seeing in Gaza, criminality. So thank you for joining us. That brings our session to a close. You're welcome to the after session chat. You'll see the link in the chat box. You received it in your Zoom invite and reminder for this session today. Let's all march together tomorrow and we'll see you on Monday for another program on conscious leadership here on humanity rising. Thank you, Jodi. Thank you for all you're doing in China. Bye for now. Much love.