 Morning, howdy fam Anthony dream Johnson air co-founder of the red man group founder 21 studios 21 convention 22 convention 21 University The under 21 convention the patriarch convention 21 summit and 10,000 other things on the internet Got up there special episode of the red man group today for you episode 169 Fighting for the rights of men and fathers and I got two awesome guests for that today two former speakers of the 21 convention 21 summit and former panelists on the red man group in one capacity or another Before we get into today's show and going through the kind of contentless topics big shout out and happy father's day Happy patriarchs day one day early to all you fathers and patriarchs out there I'm not one of myself, but congrats and I hope it's a good day for you guys tomorrow Hope you spend the day well with your family and your kids and all that Now before we get in today's show as well a quick shout out to our sponsor is our own event 21 summit coming up in Orlando, Florida this October 14th to 17th 2022 It is the 16 year anniversary of 21 studios since I founded the company at 17 And you see some of our speakers there with lightning eyes Of course coach Greg Adams jack Donovan Richard Grandin myself Elliot Hulse Michael Foster and many other speakers will be at the events There's actually three conferences in one the 21 convention for men the patriarch convention for fathers and the 22 convention for women Each event is its own unique conference going on at the same time at 21 summit October 14th to 17th Friday through Monday It's an amazing event. It's the third year in a row. We've done it in the style or we do three conferences at once It's really special. It's really amazing and it's my life's work If you want to have an amazing experience meeting our speakers and other like-minded men fathers and women at our event You should definitely come out to Florida. It's a one It's a unique thing in the world. There's nothing else. We like it and very proud of it and you'll have an amazing time I'm the best of what I do our speakers are the best of what they do and you put it all together It is just so awesome. So coming out get bogey tickets and if you join our newsletter at 21 studios calm There will be a link and a coupon code going out later today with a special discount specific to the fatherhood event to celebrate fatherhood and father's day tomorrow So without further ado in this giant commercial for our event both speakers, of course, will be at the event this year Mr. Jeff Younger and Mr. Carnell Smith. How you doing fine? Hey good day. How are you? Yeah, I got more than both of you Jeff we had you on the show a few months ago Carnell you've been on this show technically before but only at the live like in person version But that was a lot of fun. It was a really good episode Called the blue version the patriarch version came out a few months ago. Okay, cool cool Thanks for the invite and also for the opportunity to come back again Yeah, yeah, you're a big hit at the event last year carnell a lot of the guys didn't both of you were really each for different reasons Jeff was the more The surprise like really intense guy that really shocked even the speakers and I remember I remember hearing them Just you know like yelling judge mary brown I'm like behind a soundproof wall and I can hear him like like loud and clear. I'm like that's interesting But carnell you got a lot of attention to at the event a lot of the attendees weren't familiar with you and your story is amazing We just put out a clip actually of the data. It's doing really good About a 10 minute segment on the channel from your speech and the full thing will be out really soon, too Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm hearing from people too so exposure is good and and also a platform and it's amazing for for men and dads because You know, there was a time I was not red pill But I'm married and I've been married for 31 years. So it seemed strange to some people that I would be a red pill guy Yeah, how many kids do you have to one or two? I have two kids and two grandkids Wow, I didn't know you're a grandfather. Dang man. Yeah, you you look pretty young for a grandfather, man Yeah, well 61. Hey, okay. Nice. That's awesome So for the fans who don't know you they've only seen a couple of videos of you carnell on the channel I think probably three or four now between your interview a little clip your speech and Your parents on the in-person version of the show You tell me like some of the basics of your story because in my opinion You have one of the most successful tales of men's rights activism that actually worked and yeah recent American history Well, I will say this that prison in jail could be a powerful motivator Wow, so my story is this Many years back an ex-girlfriend. She dialed the wrong number she called me instead of her baby's father and Persuaded me that I was the kids father and it took me 11 years to figure out that I had been duped swindled hustled and I've been taken for a lot of cash and Frankly, I didn't like it. So when I went to court I was expecting this thing to be over and you know, let me just look at my watch 15 minutes tops Took me five years Would have battled all the way to the United States Supreme Court and I was saying to the court. Well, listen There's really only two classes of fathers. You either the biological father or you're the adopted father Both of those are things that men do with their consent with their knowledge with their participation Maybe sometimes, you know, they have relations with somebody who surprised them, but he was a he was a participant But in my case, I asked the court say listen, we can prove I didn't cause this pregnancy I have two DNA tests and one of those tests she took I Said look, why don't we assign this responsibility to the two people who had all the fun creating that baby? The court says well, it's your fault. You didn't find out sooner So I appealed it through every state court all the way to the United States Supreme Court collecting data showing that there's over 1 million men and boys that have been tested and Confirmed as not the biological fathers. So what that told me is we are not getting a hundred percent of the moms You know the girls and women to tell the truth. Yeah, so At the same time I was appealed in my case. I was also lobbying for a new state law in Georgia to Make it easier for those people who have been victims of what I call paternity fraud It's one of the four false accusations that can cause men and boys to go to jail So by lobbying for the law to be changed. I was successful in getting major support from both houses The House of Representatives voted at 163 to 0 to support the bill the state Senate voted 45 to 5 and The governor who was of a different political party Signed the bill after he had told me a year earlier. He said there was nothing he could do until legislation came across his desk I said I'll be back That's amazing So sometimes look sometimes Anthony, you got to be a warrior for yeah That's greater than you and this cause was for for my wife and daughter to not be homeless Because if I went to prison for refusing to pay that child support Yeah, I was facing a prison sentence and the ex asked them to put me in jail Wow So after one year, we got that legislation passed I went back to court using that law after the Supreme Court turned me down. I Won as the first person Using the new law. I consider that to be poetic justice and then I went on a tear. I went to Florida next in California Michigan Wyoming I presented legislative proposals to multiple states all in all about 11 states changed their laws People wanted me to come out there and I just couldn't keep that pace up because I was burning cash out of my pocket So now I've switched To teach people who want to be an effective advocate You can be an effective citizen advocate on changing laws Just got to learn how to do it you might need a coach and that's why I'm the paternity coach Yeah, damn, man. You you have it so succinctly wrapped up I love it and I love the attitude I sent a newsletter yesterday promoting the clip that we put out of you in your in your full speech at 21 University early and it'll be on YouTube and pretty soon as well But the attitude you have is the attitude of a winner and when people told you a judge I think talked to you, you know kind of these people kind of scolded you in my understanding based on the speech The the governor didn't seem to scold you, but he was not supportive so much, right? Well, well, he was truthful, you know at the executive branch of Government, it's not like it's a king and you go to the king and the king could you know wave a scepter and says Thou shalt release this man and every man and boy like him in our form of government He you know the governor president, etc. Can't just make a unit unilateral decision So until legislation was passed what this legislation does is it removes judicial discretion From looking at the evidence. Look, I take the position. We do not believe all women We do not believe all men boys women and girls. We believe evidence. We believe in corroborating facts And if the jeans don't fit you must have quit I got dr. Field to say it really that's funny. Yeah, you went out You went on a big news tour of this to you back in the late 2000s. I think yeah Dr. Phil with one of my one of my clients who I had proven Wow, not the father of his ex's ex-wife's kid Yeah, she had an affair while she was at work, but guess who made my buddy My client who was a doctor on staff at two hospitals and he's a teaching professor Yeah Sometimes you got to make a stand for truth, you know, like you say make me an alpha again Oh, yeah Make make truth great again and the court shouldn't be allowed to Sidebar sidestep and ignore the truth like they're doing in Jeff Younger's case Yeah Yeah, it's it's between both of you and what you've both been through and many other men you two are you two are just kind of I mean, you're not just figureheads. You've been through this in your real life But you're kind of symbols for what men go through throughout the United States and throughout I'm sure the Western world It's not just America and these different states, but it's it's a battle I'd you know carnell I'm really proud of what you the attitude that you have not just what you accomplish which itself is badass If you don't mind me saying but like you I think there's a couple judges right there and attorneys and stuff A lot of people told you to like basically sit down and shut up and you're like no I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna change the laws and you're gonna like you're not gonna like it Well people a lot of people actually Literally start to cry for me one day and when I said who which judge you wait a minute You're in front of judge Ed Edwin Wheeler senior man. That's the hanging judge Listen man convicted thugs and criminals are scared of that judge Wow Dang, I met that judge and he says man. Look, it's your fault. You didn't find out soon I'm like what's your honor the only way I would know she was having a relation with a guy in another state was if I was a stalker or I had a I had her under surveillance with my private investigator I didn't do that kind of stuff or your Santa Claus. Like what do you know everything? This is this is ridiculous Yeah, I said wait a minute. Why can't she be an adult and equal rights equal accountability equal responsibility Responsibility she did this she had her fun. She lied to me. She lied to your court She may well even lie to her own attorney Why should I be responsible for her decisions and help her pay for her new house and her car? No And you're in the clip we put out your speech to you made it clear and I love that that you said it wasn't only It was more than a fraud against you you made it a clear against three parties you the child And your new family who is being financially harmed by this fraud Well, also the biological father. He didn't know he had a kid Wow Wow Yeah, that makes sense if she's trying to get a bunch of money out of you. She wanted to keep it top secret Yeah, look, I have my suspicions as for how I made the list of father that's engineer On the dj company had eight cruiser dj's. I was doing corporate functions at the time I had a house. I had two cars Fire fire, you know fireplace all that good stuff Other guy was in the army. He was just getting an apartment. I think there's potential that my resources made me a target yeah Plus being a good guy, you know, and I know from your own experience, you know if you're a good guy and you don't you know Assumed that sometimes, you know ladies will operate in ways that are less than stellar You might you know before we were red-pilled you wouldn't know stuff that you know today Yeah, and and I've made it a point, you know, even in the men's ministry, you know, we talk about things like guys listen Who you pick in your life and who you allow in your life and close proximity with you This would cause you to suffer for years if you make the wrong choice And I hold my hand up saying yes, I plead guilty to all of that You know, I went through a pretty nasty nothing like what you went through but pretty nasty Divorce-ish thing several years ago And one of the things one of our speakers socrates if you met him at the event told me One of my closest friends. He said that trustworthy people tend to be very trusting And you have to go through a bad experience to learn how to better navigate The world while still being a trustworthy high integrity man And when I was young it was very hard for me to figure that out. Well, you know what? I had a co-worker who who um, he told me says he says man, you know what your problem is you know, he's he's uh Ex-army he says your problem is you believe everybody is good And that you can help make them better He said in the army, we believe they were all evil and we were going to beat it out of them So I've since changed now my attitude now is Trust but verify does that sound familiar? Yeah, I think it's an old Reagan quote. Yeah, I've heard it from Absolutely a Reagan quote Yeah Now jeff, I want to move to you a little bit. You have known carnell. I'm sure for several years Uh, particularly going through your own nightmare and family court What has been your observation of what carnell Experienced and what he accomplished and what's paternity of fraud laws? What is paternity to fraud like in texas in your state? So what carnell may not know is that uh, when he started all this activism I started agitating here in texas when I found out I didn't believe carnell. I'm going to tell you straight up This isn't my pre-redfield days I went to his website Remember that that old text version website you're very very first one. Yeah The yellow background I went to that one And uh, 20 years ago. That's right, and I checked out every one of your references I checked them all out And then I paid to get access to academic journals To look at the medical testing data that you talked about Okay, which is where they got a lot of this information Because of you know when they do genetic testing for certain diseases They find out how many what percentage of these children don't belong to the father So the father's not a donor, right? I checked all that out And I began to agitate in texas Around 2004 for legislation and in 2006 we pretty much got it In texas you have what are called qualifying events Qualifying event is like a pregnancy A marriage If you move in with somebody if you Break up a break up is a qualifying event After any qualifying event you have one year from that date To determine your paternity status The nice thing about it in texas is it's not just one event. So Let's say that you know you get married because maybe you get a woman's pregnant and to decide to get married That's a qualifying event Well, if a divorce is filed that becomes another qualifying event and you have another chance Okay, I still don't think it's good enough I think men should be able to check the paternity at any time I don't know why we need qualifying events There's some notion that there's an attachment to the child. Well, that doesn't look It doesn't mean that that the the man who's been wrongly assigned paternity is going to give up his relationship with the child But he has a Financial and social and moral integrity in his life. Yeah, and he should be a title to that at any time So i've been pushing for years to try to get that changed and we we just face tremendous opposition from the texas family law association On changing these laws The other thing that we get is all the feminist organizations have been fighting us and a lot of feminist organizations within the republican party Wow So it's it's um It's difficult, but we but carnell Uh, if effectively changed the laws in texas here too because he motivated a lot of people here to the problem I remember um You know being on some some feminist websites And I would point out these statistics. I would bring these facts that carnell had on his website out And initially they would just explode and say it's not true. You're making it up And then you bring up these plain statistical facts Particularly the one from the from the american society of blood banks Those facts which showed that in some cases up to a third of the problems. Yep. Wow. Yes up to a third of them that they test Um, it really it really shuts them down and then they shift gears to while the men need to to man up You know the many to man up and do this So that's what we face in texas. We face a white knighting problem here Yeah, where when women say men meet men up um about half the men do And uh, and they hold men responsible for women's actions And if that doesn't sum up the state of the modern liberal state, um, you know It's it's essentially the attempt to take responsibilities from women and give them to men and to take rights from men and give them to women And um, and we to some degree we still have that and in texas Um, the the estimates are there's you know, over a hundred thousand men even with these qualifying events Who have been adjudicated? That they are not the biological father, but because they didn't make the the time frame are still paying child support Yeah, yeah under penalty of going to prison at gunpoint. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, texas is very look texas is one of the The has one of the worst Child support systems in america It's rated dead last by most of the ranking systems in texas the um Failure to support your children is a is a felony And you will lose your right to possess a firearm. You will lose state licensure Your electrician you won't be an electrician. It can have terrible effects on you But even worse is the way that child support is calculated here In texas child support doesn't doesn't matter what the other party makes It only depends on what the father makes Oh, so that's all of your only Yes, and it starts with one child at 20 percent of your gross pre-tax income And goes up five percent per child Now, uh, anti-year of you're a business owner car now you you're a business man You know that no business can survive 20 confiscation of 20 percent of their pre-tax gross income. Yeah. Yeah And so the the the the line in texas is right around $60,000 a year at that point you can afford to live But below that you pretty much can't and people that make Below $40,000 a year who get assigned child support for even one child all of them end up in jail Yeah, yeah And then you're just stuck in a loop like a cycle where you can't pay it you go to jail You go to jerry's then they do 180 days. They do six months in the county quink And then they let you out six months to try to catch up Which you can't do because interest has been accruing And then they go on a rotating cycle six months in six months out six months and six months out And you can't actually what they do is they burn the right deep cards And that's where you get the large male homeless population. Yep. Yep Child support system At is the cause of most homelessness for men Yeah, yeah, I I can completely agree. I I I've actually taught a course To the georgia fatherhood program Called the naked naked truth university And it was targeted toward those men who were in the fatherhood program And their choice was to come to my class or go to jail. So my class seemed like a very attractive option Right. Whoa, whoa, but but in those couple of hours We talked to the men about things like sex traps drugs alcohol all of these things that got you here How now you could make a qualifying decision with this program To change your life for good and get your licenses back Get a marketable skill enhance your existing skills to an expert level status and How to deal and navigate the legal matrix Cause let's just be honest for most dads Unless you are a practicing family law attorney Yeah, you have an opinion about how you think court works and and looking at television It will mislead you down the hollywood, you know, flowery puppy dog. That is not how it works Yeah, you know, I look I've taken teams of pastors to family court to do court watch And and the whole purpose here was to get them to understand why you are not reaching men because you don't speak to men And by you observing what happens in court, I said, I want you to understand when you have a dad That's he's he's enabling his wife to work from home and then she divorces him And now he's got to go work extra you rarely going to see this guy again I said that family court right there Is a nuclear bomb in his life Yeah, and he unfortunately walks in there unprepared. He thinks he can negotiate and work a deal out on the fly Not understanding that you have to know the rules of the court the law The relevance to your particular situation any case law that applies You have to know what your rights are and then you have to aggressively Uh, let me say it again aggressively Advocate for your position This is not the time to go in there and say, well, look, can we just shake hands make a deal? Hey, I'll buy you a coke or starbucks and you you get some points. I get some points That is not how it works. I refer to it as the arena and you walk in like like a uh person with a steak tied around their neck And the lions haven't had a meal when you walk in They're calculating how much I will you how many bites you're going to get off of them Because see I've been that guy and teaching those guys in the fatherhood program The greatest success that we saw was when I start taking those men to the capital showing them how they could use their voice How and if they had lost their right to vote through those entanglements where they You know felony and all of that stuff how to get restated Show them how to advocate and got those guys that helped me with changing the child support law and Strengthen in the position in the law for single fathers so that they could get protected access to their kids Meaning how to legally establish yourself as the legal father after you confirm you are the biological father And then take all of those steps to where you no longer rely on the mother's mood attitude Because we know for a lot of guys soon as he gets in a relationship with a woman who looks better than her Problems will happen That's right Yeah, there's a vindictiveness that that women can play out in the in the family courts Because of white knighting by the judges themselves. I have seen so many men with just picture perfect cases Walk into family court, but because they don't know the rules of evidence and they don't know how to admit evidence The other attorneys can keep them from making their case And the judges, you know, uh, it's it's interesting You know, whenever it comes to the father, the judge wants to be a fair impartial referee But when it comes to the mom, they start helping the mom Exactly So the judges have a lot of discretion and in my case, uh, my judge is just outright violated the law And violated black letters civil procedure Uh, in order to take my children from me, they they have a predetermined outcome and they're going to go there But the objective Is to preserve your right to appeal and you have to aggressively object and assert your rights like carnell says And if you don't do that, you won't even have a right to appeal now texas is really bad about this too In texas, uh, interlocutory, um, judgments, that's those are judgments that happen between the initiation of a case and the final jury trial We still have jury trials for conservatorship here So all the judgments that go in between which which will regulate how you're going to see your kids and what child's work You're going to pay for up to three years. Okay. None of those are appealable in the state of texas. They cannot be At you Do you know why? As part of as part of the The title 4d passage between 96 98 The state's all made an agreement in order to accept the bonus pool money out of the social security act that funds child support enforcement They agreed to make these family law cases primarily bench trials And family law falls under discretionary appeal Now, let me make that plain for the audience Most victims in family court are men Because women are primarily using the family court to what access to guys resources There are a few women who are becoming non-custodial parents now, but by and large men even if they had primary custody of their kids before like Jeff End up going into that court and then what do they suffer from? A a perindectomy This is where you're going to get cut out of your kid's life and you have did nothing wrong. You've committed no crime You're stunned And and if you don't preserve all of your your your your points your rights your Your law points things that could be effective in winning on appeal Your case is over The sad part is There's no place on the planet that's teaching men this outside of family law and what and what is the cost of admission You gotta you gotta have the grades. You gotta do the LSAT You then you got to get admitted into law school and you got to do What four years and then if you're going to do a specialization and family law Man, you're talking what a half half well quarter of a million dollars Right It's not it's not uncommon that you will have to make that kind of investment. So by and large men suffer horribly on ignorance Has nothing to do with how smart they are because one of my clients Was he was a criminal defense attorney, but he was a paternity fraud victim Wow. Wow naval intelligence officer Owns law offices in georgia and florida Thriving practice The guy gets married and he's trying to figure out why he can't have kids with his new wife But he's got two kids with his first wife So, you know medical science kicks in and he says well doggone. There must be something wrong with your new wife So the doctors test the new wife and this has been tears. Nothing wrong with her. She can do it Look, we give her look we give her two thumbs up. She can do the job So just for grins and giggles We're going to test the husband 0% count while So then that led to well, wait a minute. Well, why did I have two kids the doctor says wait a minute, dude It ain't possible That you have two kids with your first wife. So dna testing reveals We His first wife had an affair with her co-worker the entire time he was married Wow Georgia before we passed the law Would not release him from that child support alimony obligation So I was able to get him to come speak to the capital as a member of the bar Nice Come see when I when you've heard me talk at the 21 convention Look, this issue doesn't limit itself to to a a particular ethnicity social class race I have I have men e including three star generals that I know as clients All the way down to your regular guy who just just a high school student Wow That is why the law needed to be changed to take out that ambiguity. You could not say with certainty Even with the mother's testimony, she lied she admitted she lied just like that gentleman carnell alexander on youtube The woman put his name down while he was in jail And the process server lied and say they served him at his father's house Wow, they got a default judgment against him anyway And it took you to show the court to go follow the law Yes, exactly. And but you know what helped these guys It would help the attorney and and also mr. Carnell alexander. It was Going public just like I did You know people thought I was crazy for standing out in the rain that very first time when my lawyer said to me He says look the law is wrong and sometimes you have to change the law. I said I take that challenge Yeah I said look I have no other option because going look it's pay or go to jail And and once you exceed being two thousand five hundred dollars in arrears that is a third degree felony I'm in a high trust position. That will be a career ending move for me My I have no choice but to fight back Right. Look my father had had coached me on being a warrior. All right So it was necessary To point out that it's necessary to to even the law so that instead of women having a superior position Let's let them embrace equality That includes equal rights Equal accountability And equal responsibility You're big enough a girl to go out there and have those multiple partners that feminism says you can do And you can have you you can do like me and I'm like you go girl. You can do that But that comes with Responsibility consequences or as my wife my wife says there will be repercussions And in the end The the legislature agreed with me. This is man. It makes it makes no sense that the judges can just ignore evidence And then you can't appeal And by the way, uh, Jeff my case wasn't the only one there are three men There are three of us men who have appealed this issue to the united states supreme court Morgan wise out of texas a a a locomotive engineer Yes Morgan and I worked together on my case and he let me use the a lot of his research and case law for his case Cause we had the same thing. What was different was he was married and I wasn't Right and the other gentleman in pennsylvania Same thing he was married So what it shows is it whether people want to admit it or not there is a patent bias In the family court that where woman is automatically assumed to be right Man is automatically assumed wrong. So now it's on you To prove you not guilty Right and on the woman side. Oh, she's got to do this. Well, your honor I want both of the kids and I want alimony and I want him to pay And oh, yeah, and my attorney's bill Can you just push that over there on his side of the table too? Oh, yeah, absolutely This is what I was going to say earlier My experience with family court lawyers and I've spent about 1.2 million dollars on Wow, you got to be that now they they will not preserve they will intentionally Not preserve an appeal record And that's how I lost my appeal and my first divorce They will intentionally not do that and they will intentionally not object. Let me give you a good example I had an amicus attorney Asked the judge to assign his legal fees as child support Say what now that means that it would take any dispute I would have over his billing And I would have to take that back to the family court and adjudicate it under as though I owed child support That is crazy. So it brings criminal penalties for a civil debt. You see, yeah My lawyer did not object to that And those you should assign to me as child support That was my lawyer did not your advocate That's correct. The lawyers the family court lawyers Absolutely will not advocate for you You have to unfortunately if you want to be involved If you're going to be involved whether you like it or not You have got to know the rules of civil procedure and let me tell you reading them is a cure for insomnia I'm telling you right now, but you've got to read them You've got to read the rules of evidence and you need to know your family code Yes, and and that $50 a month to get case tax to look up case law in your state is absolutely invaluable Because in the in those cases they those are those are cases that were won on appeal You're actually seeing what a good lawyer would do Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you know what your lawyer ought to be doing I hang on carnell. You're a video got kind of frozen messed up. Jeff. Do you see that? I do It seems like uh, my screensaver kicked in Oh, can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you just fine. Yeah, you look like the joker though Oh man, if you reset Maybe appropriate Uh, yeah, how can I make this thing reset? There's um, there's a button. I think that'll fix it on stream yard. It says like stop can't stop camera Oh, okay If you click that and then click it now Uh, that didn't fix it So that's probably in your computer itself. Like if you have a webcam, uh, you can unplug it plug it back in Okay Your audio will be fine though. I think yeah, they're they're separate devices. I actually have a free streaming Well, in the meantime, I guess I have some news to report from texas on these issues that that just happened yesterday And the day before so we're in the middle of our texas, uh, republican Convention here in texas. It's very big. It brings about 10 000 people. It's down in houston um, the feminists in the republican party Uh, successfully removed equal shared parenting from the legislative priorities of the texas republican party and They issued a minority report out of the priorities committee to remove it from the platform entirely and that's going to a vote today Wow That that tells you that you think that you've got support from, you know, conservative women or they they say they're pro-family Um, but they believe that you could be pro-family and be anti-father at the same time Yep And uh, they've been running around saying that all these people that want shared parenting are deadbeats that don't want to pay child support And all this other stuff and yeah, of course my reply is always the same You're right. No man wants to pay child support They want to they want to raise their own children with their own money. They don't want to pay somebody else to do Exactly. Yeah, you know, yeah, they don't want to pay they don't want to pay somebody else to raise their kids um, they want to do it themselves So, um, but they've been doing this kind of stuff and um in texas Um, we have laws that require equal representation of men and women Throughout the party apparatus Okay, so our state republican executive committee has to have a man and a woman from each senate district and so forth And we have a a group called the texas federation of republican women And they're very active in preventing any changes to the family code That would make it more fair for men So we've been locked in a in a in a death battle at the texas republican convention Simply trying to get men to Have you know a fair shake in court all all equal shared parenting does Is uh, it says that at the beginning of the case before facts have been presented Both parents should get equal shared custody if the court finds no admissible evidence That's what it will find because right now in the state of texas the the the statutes presume It's in the best interest of the child to give the father less than 25 of a custody time We want to change that to be 50% Yeah Both parents should have equal access and the women are fighting us just tooth and nail at the convention right now There are a bunch of frauds all these conservative frauds. I call them conservahos Uh, we lost carnell by the we lost carnell by the way. He might be back in a minute, but I think he has to go soon as well Okay, so i'm not sure what's going on with that. He'll probably text me in a minute. We can just continue and when he comes back in well Yeah, we'll do his thing And um, there's some interesting Things I've learned here. So I've got uh activists that are friends of mine who are at the convention, right? And I get I get texts from them like, you know, uh, hey, uh, you know The legislators are saying that we have too many angry facebook posts and we're sounding angry and so forth Um, you know, and I'm trying to explain to them like this is a leftist tactic to shut you down, right? This is called tone policing How come they're not tone policing the other side? How come they're not telling the women advocates and the white knight advocates to stop calling us dead beats Yeah, right. They're not doing that This tone policing is another thing I find that conservatives particularly are very susceptible to it One thing I like about carnell is he's not susceptible to it Yeah, you cannot talk with carnell smith Hey guys, hey, I apologize That looks good Hey, uh, sorry about that. Uh Yeah, I know that screams they were kicked in but hey, thank you for those Complimentary words there jeff, but I'm a big admirer of what you've done and the research That you've done because uh for years. I've had people try to just dismiss me as being um A woman hating guy. Oh, yeah, that's this tactic Yeah, you know, I've listened to uh, the late kevin samuels. He talked about shaming language, right? Right, you know where they they try to shame you and try to get you to back down Then they try to insult you and then they try to guilt trip you and they just have this obsessive need to be right Yeah, and I and I've had to say this at the capital You do know that facts are superior to your feelings, right? Yeah, yeah You look don't don't tell me about well, it's your truth. I'm like that that crap right there is subjective What I said what I'll stand on is objective truth Because uh, you know, there's there's my side. There's your side and then there's the truth Now which one do you line up with and which one do I line up with there's no gray area when you get to Facts did a man cause the pregnancy? No. Look is jeff the biological father of both of his sons? Yes Why should someone make a decision in the judiciary to try to help his ex-wife change the gender of One of his sons who seems like a perfectly normal boy when he is with his father. Yes, you know in my mind That is amazing that that had to go that far, you know, it's totally illegal. Yeah The they they're essentially what happens. Um, and I say essentially, I mean it is actually what happens Uh, you when you when you go into divorce court and young men need to know this before they marry and have children Or before they have sex and have children Yeah, when you walk into a family court You you become not only your child, but you will become a ward of the state Right all these decisions about my children have been made by a judge who's never met my children Look at it never met them doesn't know anything about them doesn't care about them The judge judges make these decisions purely based on ideological criteria because they never even meet these kids spend no time with them The second thing is like I don't I think young men need to know this I don't have any privacy like every debit card transaction that I make is reported to the court Wow, it's it's submitted to opposing counsel They go through my finances with a fine tooth comb for any increase in income Where they can get more child support if I purchase any assets They want to know where that money came from and I have to go back to court every time to prove it That includes just little things like buying a car or buying furniture. I got to go back to court Okay, wow, I don't have any financial privacy My my living conditions are constricted. I can only live within a three county area If I move outside that area I lose my kids So tell me I'm not allowed to every time I want to go to a school event with my children I have to get permission From the court to do that I have to file with the court if I want to make any changes if there's if I want to take a european vacation And take my children. I have to file with the court Because it's a non it's going out of the country. I'm not allowed to to do things with my kids So you when you better understand this when you when you have kids and you get into family court You literally have all of your rights taken. Let me just tell you another thing. Um, I'm not paying counselors Who affirm my son as a girl? I will not pay them Well in texas that's medical child support So I'm failing to pay child support by by doing that That's why a lot of the leftists who are my enemies will say Um, you know that I that I'm a deadbeat dad because I'm not paying child support I'm not paying that medical child support to counselors who teach my son. He's a girl. I'm not gonna do it Well, guess what they can do When that reaches a certain level at five thousand dollars Where did I have it paid they can take my passport? Yep Yep, and now I can't travel Yep, then they can start taking my driver's license now. How am I going to get to visitations to see my kids? Then you don't start seeing your kids. Well in texas if you don't see your kids for three months And you're not current on child support for those three months Which if I'm not paying medical child support, I'm not current right They can involuntarily terminate your parental rights. Yep So the courts can create the conditions to financially destroy you remove your privacy Put you in a position where you're going to go to chip to to a jail for a felony And there's very very little you can do to stop it So you need to think very very carefully Before you get married and have kids or before you have sex and have kids Absolutely Well, look so that it's all not doom and gloom. I'm going to say there are some good things for guys Um, I think If we have older guys like us me you and anthony to talk to the guys worldwide Make a deliberate decision to have no kids with any woman who's not in your last name And only with her after you've spent some years Getting to know her Yeah No circumstances that let do you allow for an oopsies or And I look and I'm a married man. I support vasectomies. I look I said, okay, I'm done with this rodeo We're out What you didn't know that I also experienced what it's like to be Jeff, you know, I've been the noncustodial dad I fought for decades Just to see my son and after giving up I went bankrupt Yeah after giving up My son found me on my website He was in a cow. He was at a camp at uh, disney That was teaching how to create websites So He found me talking about how much I miss my son. Wow He contacts me sends me an email guess who? So While the latter years of his um From middle school up through high school while his mom was ignoring the court order. We were we were seeing each other I would travel to florida. We get to go out and hang out go to lunch Um It was the he said based on my mom's character There had to be more to the story about you that she was telling me How's that for a 12 year old wow? Yeah And and based on that we we reconnected and uh, I was in his wedding He's retired us marine sergeant now. He's actually disabled But I'm going to say there is some good news though for the men that have Not taken the genteel approach of of walking into family law Um, I've had a lot of clients who've been successful and getting custody of their kids because I've says listen number one Is not your job to make your ex happy number two You are the only person sometimes that is going to be the person that's willing to fight for your kid's right to see both sides of their family And I says and you should stand on that as the holy grail as the best interests of the child to have protected access to both sides of their family with frequency And you must go after the mother every time she violates the court order with contempt Which means you're going to have to learn the law You're going to have to learn how to be at least if you can't do it all yourself You're going to have to know enough to be able to be partnering with your lawyer You don't do the traditional thing that men do. We take our money here. Go fix this for me Come back. Let me know when it's done. Let me know what papers I need to sign and when you need me to show up in court I say that is a disaster in family court I know been there done that I didn't I didn't lose a one million. I lost about 300 000 So I feel you trust me when I say I know man, it's devastating It's devastating and look I could have retired. I could have retired 15 years early because that money I had invested I pulled out of investments to pay your court What's crazy to me is it's like you got a discount losing only 300 000 dollars compared to 1.2 million that jeff lost Both of which are insane but like the the fact that the fact that you lost That much less it's this is evil. This is this is some parts of this are not just corruption and incompetence and bureaucracy like this is sick There are people in the chat watching right now that are dishorrified and this is This is an intentional program industry to strip fathers from families. That's exactly exactly But listen, but the fathers who who say wait a minute from day one I'm let's say he becomes red pill from day one He knows he needs to keep his wife on her toes and stuff She starts that crap about wanting to go out girls night out and all that kind of stuff and hanging out with the single friends and And dating other people while she's married It says you got to have your deal breakers because that that was what ended my first engagement Yeah, her dating other people while engaged to me But now when you prepare yourself having been this mentality this mindset that yeah If you're going to have to be the warrior who fights for your kid's rights to see both sides of their family And it may mean That you make the stand for your kid to be with you as the kid's best interest Because when the other parent is is opposed to any goodwill any gestures, you know just on principle just because she said so Your your ability to see your kid shouldn't be limited to Her mood or what phase of the moon is in or some crazy crap that you can you know us logical people Like what do you mean the court order says this? Your honor, I've actually said this to judge. It's such an honor. Let me ask this question Why is it that your order is only enforceable one way? If I'm 30 days late on payments, I have a letter here from child support enforcement that includes loss of business license driver's license seasons of checking savings investment accounts jail prison And you're quick. They're quick to implement those. I said but now I didn't get to see my kid for two years with your order And the police said they can't get involved It's a silver matter The police thanked me for calling them because had she called the police they said if I didn't leave I would have been arrested for trespassing They said thank you sir for doing that well The long short of it is when once we become red-pilled and we start to understand now You are no longer in a friendly relationship with her man. You got to be like a warrior fighting for your kids It's not because you hate women You love your kids so much. You don't want your kid to lose out on years or decades Of life with you and the rest of their family because you can't get those moments back You know those 15 plus years me and my kid were separated and then the five years in the in the court for paternity fraud Let's just say I have somewhat of a dislike for family court and that's been politically kind Yeah Yeah, Melissa Isaacs it in texas. Uh, it's actually a state jail felony to interfere with child custody So these women here with all these children are actually committing felonies in this state And not a single da in the state of texas will prosecute them for Same here in georgia. We have black letter law. It's a statue I cited the statue Yeah, they won't prosecute and no law the police will lie and say it's a civil matter. It's not a civil matter. It's a criminal matter Yes, yes, wow, but but we know why though once you start to understand How were these 60 billion dollar industry title 4d and the funding Wait a minute. You guys don't care about kids. This is about best interests of the state This is bet. Look. Why is the child support agency under the department of revenue in the state? As a taxpayer I would like to know why Do as men are primary taxpayers. Why is our money being used then to To harm us and our kids. Yes Well for for people that may not know about title 4d Cornell Let me just give you a summary of it and um, maybe you can chime in here I know the stats in texas. So, um, the Title 4d was a program that was put in by a democrat A federal legislature and signed by a republican president zero four in the late 1970s And this this program took full effect about mid 80s and by the early 90s had completely transformed Um, the family court system in the united states what it provides sounds so simple It provides for federal matching funds for the collection of child support dollars in the states So if I pay one dollar of child support The state gets about 66 cents about about two-thirds of it Now in texas listen to what i'm about to say folks in texas That's almost three quarters of a billion dollars It completely funds the texas attorney general's office Okay, it's big big money If you include this across the states, it's larger than most defense programs It's about the size of what it takes to field a carrier group in the navy Just just a level sets you here how much money we're talking about Now the if you think about it this creates very perverse incentives for the state because The more child support that the state issues the more money the state gets Um in texas and in texas and many states The uh the judicial retirement fund for the judges Is funded from this matching money So the more that the judge issues in child support the more the judge gets from their judicial retirement Okay, yeah, so there are a whole bunch of Entities within the state governments that have huge financial interests in you paying maximal child support That is why fathers do not get 50 50 custody of their children The courts will always find that there is a loser parent Usually the father and the loser parent will pay child support because the state gets tons of money Now we've heard about cbs. It uh, you know abuses as well Well, there's another one. There's another federal program called title for e And it does the exact same thing for adoptions So, you know here in texas a satellite office of child protective services will run out of budget They will go look for a and they know exactly what they're looking for. It's a black or a white baby healthy Under two years of age They will adopt that baby out and get uh, $150,000 from the from the federal government And they choose low IQ parents parents with limited financial means who can't fight Parents who show a knife tang on cps interviews and they'll target those parents and take their babies This is a widespread practice across the united states The federal government is literally paying the states To keep fathers away from their children and to take babies from poor people. It's literally that bad Now can I add to that you're accurate on that? now The addition to that would be The incentives This is the bonus money on top of all of that and they also get a million dollars or so per year Available for DNA testing, but most of the states are not going to push the button for that DNA test cause They might lose the guy that's in their hand Versus, you know, well, she said he did it therefore he did it, right? so there's a couple of key metrics in the um The incentives to states that I that I focused on when I was talking to the legislators number one The the accuracy is questionable about the number of paternities that get established Right, they don't actually verify whether or not the guy is a an adopted dad or biological dad So with that in mind you can get somebody to be the dad because You apply this technique at the hospital of getting him there Get him to hold a baby Tell him how much the baby looks like him And oh and oh look here's this legal utensil here This is going to authorize you now to pay child support And you just confess by filing a voluntary paternity acknowledgement and that's enough for them then to be able to count that as a metric on Paternities established also get you inducted into the child support money machine It'd be great. Anthony if you queued up that uh that song money, right? You know, some people got to have it for the love of money But the another metric on that also too is Paternities established all right, so What I pointed out to the legislators there is no requirement for accuracy here There is no continual quality improvement here. There is no process control here. Look, I'm I'm a systems engineer I do this for a living what I did was once I found myself in this trap I deconstructed the trap and I learned how it worked and I said well, what what's driving the opposition Why aren't these people like they're literally, you know, they call me out my name Because you you are attacking kids and you are not going to You're going to call some kids to lose their money. I'm like, well, if the guy that's paying is not his daddy He shouldn't be paying any money Yeah, it says you you're a smart woman Pick go tell them the guy you had you had to fund with bring your list. All right But that additional uh bonus money is it's some excellence of a 500 million dollars California got so good at this California making over a billion dollars a year So when you say Texas was the worst I don't challenge that California's gotten it down so good that they will establish paternities by default Wow, meaning At one of the years where they had some problems with one of their major da's in Los Angeles 80 percent of the people who were established By uh paternity. Yeah, we're done by default Unbelievable and one of my affiliate chapters there in in california the veterans against paternity fraud over 600 military men are all Oh, it's they pray on military men. Oh, yeah, they pray on military men. They're targeted Yes, they have pensions and stuff probably to go after yeah The judges family court judges love when when military fathers come in because they can lay that child support at the feet of the federal government who will do everything They'll just they'll just confiscate this man's wealth in the military. That's and by the way He doesn't know many times that there was a court judgment. That's right He gets his pay while he's out of the state where he's missing somewhere He's like hold on. Hold on. Uh, I need to talk to somebody. There's a huge chunk missing out my check There's like, oh no, there's no mistake here, buddy. That's for your child support What I don't have any kids Well, according to this court hearing that you didn't show up at Wait a minute. I'm in combat duty deployed I'm risking my life How the heck could I show up at a court hearing that they didn't even serve me on? Listen that technique has been applied nationwide On getting somebody And and there's it's it's done in such a callous way that a woman will actually put her own address down as To have you serve Absolutely And then when the papers come to her house, she doesn't tell you about the court hearing and because you don't show up at the hearing The judge says, uh, he's a it's amazing. He's trying to get out of his responsibilities And the judge will sign that document. It's unbelievable You know, the the listeners may not know carnell what we know about a process of service And process of service is a right It's not an option that judges give it's not only a statutory rights constitutional You have a right to be notified when there's a suit against you Do they're the state's established rules and the the constitution requires them to do this Establish rules for notifying people so that they can respond to the court It's part of your right to redress the government for for redress of grievances So in texas for example, uh, uh, you know a proper process for child support Has to include paper service unless you've weighed that for electronic service Right, it has to include very specific information that has to be in that in that piece of paper And it has to be done by a process server Who who certified and swears an oath that they delivered it to you and without these specific things You don't have a valid suit at all, but judges just routinely Will issue orders without valid process service And then say well because you weren't there you couldn't object so you have no right to appeal Exactly, I looked at served. I didn't know and this is exactly it's literally that corrupt And and and because people don't know the rights because that's a constitutionally protected right due process Is a basic fundamental And you don't have to be a lawyer, but that's right all the all of the rights that you lose are the ones you don't fight for Yeah Cardinal i've seen a lot of questions about what are good states Yeah, we've got a question What are your views on that? Well, my view are the the states that actually have passed and enforce a Uh, a rebuttable presumption of equal shared parenting. That's thank you. That's what I was going to say to you It's written. Yeah. Yes, it's written in where The default is unless there is documented reason to deviate from that because that way you can then make it an appeal Is this means now you get at least some similar to fairness to start with and in my state Georgia used to be an obligor only state like what you're talking about texas where Men are primarily the child support payers. They tended to be the higher income earners, right? And they calculated the child support on your gross income, right? We fought that it it has got changed now and it requires both people's income And And mama's going to be calculated on what she should be paying if she ain't got a job because This is an indication that she needs to get in job training and she needs to take her lazy behind to work Right because look if she's not in my last name living in my house, I don't have a duty to support her The duty should be to support the kid, right? And it amazes me that your kid costs so much more when they don't live in your house. That's right I was like, wait a minute. I could do a whole lot more for my kid. Just give me the kid That's $30,000 a year in child support. You know when I was living with my children, they did not cost that much Exactly. Look, they don't look they don't eat filet mignon every day Right Yeah, can we just be Equal shared parenting in kentucky, arizona has passed it. They did it in two stages. Where else do they have equal shared parenting? Uh, well, I haven't kept up with the list Yeah, it's not that many it's maybe kentucky. I think it's I think it's less than 12 honestly, yeah, but um A gentleman that I I keep up with uh mark ludwig Is uh with americans for equal shared parenting. I got chance to go there and speak to their group Yeah, he'd be a phenomenal resource for for people on the web to connect with if you're looking for that And they actually help uh help coach train and uh teach people on how to lobby So they're interested in doing that for their states. Listen, um The laws can be changed, but it takes a first a will to do it And then It's going to have a commitment of time it's going to take time effort resources and energy to do it Look when I was lobbying before the state legislature, I attended every committee hearing me subcommittee Um every vote all of that stuff now. It was easy for me to do because I'm eight minutes away from the Capitol So I didn't have to you know have to pay for hotel and and and fly in and do all that kind of stuff But for people who are citizens of that state If they learn how to work with the legislators There's power in using mass media PR Cause like what jeff talked about having to deal with the the feminists, you know, the radical feminists I faced all of that too And what they were unprepared for was my my pr strategy I countered them By publicizing the women who were affected by paternity fraud Because if you're the wife of a paternity fraud victim You and your kids are affected when 20 40 60 of the income goes across town To the hussy who lied to your husband Right And right they can't go on vacations. They can't buy clothes And and and it just Basically it's unfair. So I showed all of those women How to use their voice and my group was larger than the feminist group That's nice strategy Learn that stuff. Look I learned that stuff from study and dr. Martin Luther King. Look You have to you you can't just make a simple let's shake hands. Let's just go do something But if you're motivated And you're willing to learn because jeff I think you make a heck of a lawyer or at least an elected representative because Oh, yeah, depth you have depth brother. You got balls too, man A woman a woman of jeff younger, man Absolutely I'll tell you I've been in court every month for for about 10 years So facing one of the top law firms in texas uh coons fuller and I face their attorneys down all the time You know, I I just tell people i'm a jailhouse lawyer, you know That state was so tough and I got tired of paying millions of dollars to these people Oh, it looks like uh So i'm gonna bring to everybody's attention jeff just gave me this link This is a wikipedia page a list of shared parenting legislation And it looks like a really good list. Uh, it's highly detailed for each state in america Of where equal shared parenting legislation is at For example, my state of florida, unfortunately, I was familiar with this too. It passed in 2016 both houses of our legislature Passed by 74 to 38 and then 24 to 14 and then it was vetoed by republican governor rick scott I want to park that out Man supposedly pro family. Yeah trader trader trader Yeah, so I do think though. I know that um, you know, my governor now desantis has promised to sign it if he gets to his desk Yes, okay, and that's we have an awesome. Yeah, and we have an awesome legislatures So I think that'll happen pretty soon. We'll have to wait and see but there's a couple more It looks like missouri, kentucky's listed here, and I think missouri was it Georgia Uh died See 2020 it was referred to the judiciary. It died and it's dead for now. Yep. Yeah And it was uh, they're still trying It also details the legislation type because it's all it's each state's a little bit different Um, so yeah, it's pretty it's this is really it's not super complex, but it's super detailed in each state's different Yeah, but that presumption but that presumption of 50 50 As a as a mandated start point That is a major shift cause we're also It'll hang on i want money I want to point out that it looks like oregon got it and virginia and wisconsin So it is it's less it's less than 12. Like you said, uh carnell, but it's still but at least it's a handful for now It's a shame. I'm really amazing to me that the basically all 55 all shared parenting says Is that when the case starts both parties will be considered equally? Exactly, they're instead of zero percent and a hundred percent. Yeah, that's right And I don't believe this is controversial, but it is it's highly controversial At the point where republican pro family governors will veto Yep, well it exposes the fraud as well. Not only of those a lot of these republican governors rick scott that's very disappointing them Um, but also the fraud of feminism that they're all for equality equality equality It's like no, you're not the minute you have some real genuine equality You you freak out and you slander the men who want to see their children and be treated fairly before the law It's sick. It really is it's a massive snowball of corruption and fraud this whole thing I'm kind of my jaw is kind of mentally on the floor listening to you guys talk Even i'm already familiar with this information I'm not in in the weeds on the details like you guys are like the audience. I'm just kind of like holy holy effing shit Like this is crazy. This is really un-american and sick. It's sick. It's crazy. And I think it's important for men who uh who have taken that red pill And uh have woken up inside that that little submarine with morpheus Uh and it's you know, you know, if you you know neo had to come to grips with what the world was really like And it was a shock to him And for a while he wanted to go back to his comforting illusions, right? You got to know what forces you're up against you're up against the most powerful social forces in america here So when a guy like parnel has gone toe-to-toe with those people and whooped their ass Taking them behind that wood shed and give them a good looking You understand this is a major this is a major political accomplishment. Okay. Yeah And and and you are up against some tremendously powerful forces And people like carnell need millions of men behind it Yeah, yeah to help them and men are not very good about this about helping each other and Um, there's the women are extremely good at it But men need to really redevelop the old tribal habits that we used to have Yes, where men would stick together and you're gonna fight one. You're gonna fight all of us, buddy. Yeah Yeah, and that's why we're here at the 21 convention with the red man. That's right Building me look building men better help make families better because when you have a strong man In the house an in leadership role and he is actively leading his His family and he's standing up for what's right Look the fact that nobody else hadn't done it before doesn't mean that it can't be done It might mean it's a huge challenge. You may need help You got to ask yourself, man. Am I up for it? You know what I mean? Yeah, because see because There's a you know, oftentimes people say, what are you willing to die for? I I flipped that over I said, what are you willing to live for? Yeah, because see I had a newborn baby at the house and by the way, I have an advantage over a lot of married men I have confirmed a child with my wife is mine I have been a test for my baby That was now a graduate from uh, Georgia state Is mine Because after that experience with the family court, I never wanted to have questions in my mind again So I might ask people to do because because I'm gonna have to go is Come meet me Jeff and Anthony and the other great speakers there at the 21 convention coming up this year I'm looking forward to be there. I'm looking. Thanks for the invite. Hey, let's network Let's talk. Let's talk because you know a mano a mano a mano man to man This is how I got started man I got out in the streets and I started talking to people and I learned how people got laws changed and I talked to the guys Who who sponsors legislation in all of the other states? Look find a solution that's working the way you needed Contact those people and find out how to learn learn how to do it and then Put your work boots on and get after it Look, don't don't just sit on the pity party. Look, I'm all for some, you know empathy for where okay. Yeah This is bad. It happened to us. Yeah, we don't like it. But after we've had the pity party It's time to open up a can or royal whoop Yeah, and if we have we've taken the red man pill, we're not look we're backing down And we're not we're not gonna sit here and say we're gonna kiss the ring of your highness No, your honor judge you answer to the people too because I'm willing to help publicize what you do So that people can make an informed decision on your next election That's right Because look when you cut Jeff out of a life as a kid you often cut out the whole paternal side of the family There's a grandma is affected. That's a grandfather. There's a uncle affected So by showing those people how to collectively use their voice and then use pr and media And you can have your youtube channel like 21 studios, man. You can get the word out Yep, man. Look, I am grateful to be with you guys. You are awesome brothers in the in the fight And and let's let's let's keep doing this thing man Thanks brother. Good to see you again. All right guys. Thanks your time carnell. I appreciate it today. All right guys. Take care See Man, what a what a guy. Is he not a force of nature? Yeah, yeah, he's awesome, man. You're very polite too. Very polite. Yeah I wanted to say too, uh, you know, this list you gave me it just what carnell was saying there at the end In particular just got me thinking about it. But this is really positive stuff I mean, there's still a lot of red and yellow and all this crap, but I mean him, like you said, he's a force of nature and he he got a lot done. It's a major accomplishment My hope my hope looking at this is that there's enough states that have momentum here that Eventually you can turn this whole thing green, which will freak I mean, this will be like rovey wane like feminists feminists will lose their minds I know and one of the issues that we face, um, is is uh, the simp culture. I'm just going to be honest with you. Um That was a simp culture. Look Yeah, so are you a christian? Uh, no, i'm a retired catholic We have big disagreements on religion metaphysics. Maybe a little bit on epistemology Probably agree on politics and aesthetics Yeah, almost completely. Um, and you and I you know, uh, you and I might might have some I hope we do have some real interesting public discussions at the next 21 convention about these things and I would love to Have a discussion on metaphysics with you Sure Because you you've really enlightened me on a lot of things But we cooperate just fine Yeah, we cooperate just fine on on all issues. Um, uh, I even will help you get your ideas about metaphysics And epistemology out there. I think they're even valuable even though I don't agree with them This is a masculine way of thinking about things Yeah, you know the the feminine way is this catty, uh sort of passive aggressive You know failure to cooperate on with people because basically we're going to go achieve pretty much the same policy agenda Yeah, probably for slightly different reasons So, okay, we can have our internal family squabbles about little things that interest us We're both interested in philosophy and metaphysics and we'll have our little little squabbles and we'll keep up our debates Um, that's not going to stop us from cooperating on huge issues that affect children and and fathers Yeah, and even mothers we're not gonna we're just not going to allow our society to go down like that One of the problems with a lot of men who are paying child support who are agreed by this system Is that they find it difficult? For example, democrats will find it difficult to cooperate with republicans on these issues And I just have to go why I'll work with any look I'm so right-wing if I'm at a till the hunt, he'd be a little liberal for me But I could probably still get along with right But I will cooperate with any democrat. I'll cooperate with communists Who want to fix this family court system? Because it's it's in my best interest. So, you know people that uh, people need to start understanding that you need it When you want to execute exercise political power You have to be willing to work together with people that you just might not like and you know what? It doesn't matter if you don't like them You don't have to like them just like you don't have to like people who you work with Right as long as you agree as long as you get the objective the specific objective that you're targeting Which is what you're saying Yeah, and you're in your in your philosophical language as long as that value you're trying to achieve you both agree on Yeah, you can at least work together on those values Yep, right and we can disagree and fight each other on the other values. That's fine Right um, but we have to get over this and the other thing is uh, you'll find that men get into these Spirals where they want because there are we're all alpha men. We want to be in control. You know what I mean? but one of the things that I learned the Marine Corps taught me this and It's that uh, if if you were to list Uh on a whiteboard and I've actually done this exercise Uh with people you list on a whiteboard all the qualities of a good leader What makes a good leader? Then I'll have people go to lunch, you know We'll just take some time a couple of hours and I have somebody erase all that while we're gone And then I come in and then I ask them let's list all the qualities of a good follower Write them all down and then I put up the list for a good leader and they're the same list They're exactly the same list Right. So when I show up at 21 convention and Anthony dream Johnson says jeff I want you to get out of this middle area and go out and mingle with people Because it's going to benefit the movement. I go. Yes, sir Yeah I could follow I could follow directions even though I'm out. That doesn't make me beta Yeah, you're incredibly helpful and supportive at the event like I was really uh, I um It's the word It it was it had an emotional impact because it was obvious to me You were serious and you were actually going to act that out and you did And other speakers other speakers do this as well But you were particularly exemplary with this Especially not because what you were doing the constant like talking to attendees and being engaged But you were a first-time speaker too. You hadn't been there before you didn't know I did what you asked me to do Yeah, right and and this there's there's a there's a the the point is that we're all leaders But all leaders are good followers Yeah, all leaders can get behind the guy That's the right guy to take us to the promised land and achieve our values Yeah, and if we've got a group of people that can help us achieve our values And we're not the guys to be on the vanguard taking the shots that we need to be supporting them And there's always three groups. There's the there's the tip of the spear the vanguard There are the people who are supporting the vanguard and there are people who aren't doing shit Yep And your goal is always to convert the apathetic to be supporters and supporters to be the vanguard Right, but the vanguard call the shots if you're not up there taking hits If it's I don't look you you put up a lot of money for these 21 convention I didn't put up any money for the convention. So when I show up to your convention and you ask me to do something I just do it Yeah, and there's nothing beta about that. That's alpha actually that's a way The goal is more important And I'm willing to work with somebody who's taking the slings and arrows and I'm going to support that guy Yeah, and we need to get over this idea that because we're we're following something that we're not alpha. That's not true Yeah That's not true. It should be another thing is tribal competition You know our our competition and our testing one another should be developmental You can you can test people so hard that they get injured You know we go to boxing gyms where people are getting hurt. Those people are not going to go win championships The sparring should challenge you just enough the way you can recover and come back and be stronger Right. We need to be making each other stronger and not weaker And and that that means governing our tongues It means it means Showing up when people need us just simply your mere presence is often powerful Yes, right just showing up when people need you and being that guy that people can count on And if men can start doing that we could get all of those states green We could reform all of this and it wouldn't take us but about two election cycles to do it but men men are not Willing to step up often because They feel like by being a supporter of the vanguard. They're not being alphas. That's just not true Yeah Yeah, I've wanted to say too that you know, I lead my events. I build these events I'm the CEO of my company but in working with speakers in a way I follow what you guys do. I'm following you intellectually. That's why I have you as a speaker You're an expert in something that I'm not you're leading with a higher degree of experience expertise and knowledge That I don't have the literally I'm too young I don't have the the experience yet or whatever the time to even accumulate the experience I haven't spent years reading these different legal textbooks and this other stuff You guys are far far ahead of me in these issues even though I care about them I don't want to support them And that's through those speakers like all the speakers in a way That's why that's why they're on my stage giving a presentation that I couldn't give I'll give my own with my own experiences and you know focus I have for the talk But you guys are speaking for a reason And I think people sometimes don't understand that about me as arrogant as I am on the internet and some polarizing dick We love we we get your humor brother. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of power in humor, too. Like you mentioned communist When you're not working with them and the feminists and stuff It's good to be in my view and I think I think this is a reason Trump was powerful as president and a candidate And even now after he's funny People people vastly underestimate Him having fun and being funny as a as a tool and a weapon a political weapon Like being mocking his opponents and whether they're you know, rhino these fake republican You know feminists and shit or it's democrats or whoever, right? He he can mock these people like a like a schoolyard bully and get everyone laughing at them And this is our for the poll numbers and for future voting and just just to demoralize the enemy, too These people get humiliated. Oh, yeah. So not a humor is is one of the greatest rhetorical weapons of all time I when I when I would go I would go through a little Tidbits of history with my sons to kind of illustrate how language has real power Yeah, and one of the ones that I I went through the sayings of the spartans with my sons And I even had t-shirts made was saying so that they would probably wear them and pronounce them to the world um one of them was the story where the uh, The macedonians were thinking about invading sparta and they said look if You might as well just give us what we want because if we if we invade we're taking your women We're taking your slaves. We're going to kill all the men and everything if we have to invade It's not going to be good for you and the spartan response was just one word if Yeah And it's that's that kind of sardonic humor Yeah, if you can beat us you could do all that You know that kind of sardonic humor Uh, is extremely powerful and for actually forestalled the invasion Yes, because if you can't you're gonna die That's right because the consequences for you are going to be something you can't imagine, right? um, and so you and you can imagine this sardonic humor and the The councils in macedonia As they considered what they were going to do, right? Yeah, like we're threatening to to enslave them and they're making fun of us Yeah, probably not somebody to to mess with you know, so yeah, you're right This is something that certainly we don't use enough. Yeah, you do a great job of it. Um, thanks Your memes are the best. I share all your memes on facebook. I know it hurts my reach on facebook, but I still do that Yeah, yeah, thanks. Yeah, I try to take care of my own My biggest fear of influence currently is not in General internet or even like conservative politics not even close or whatever, right? It's it's within the mantis here community and I when I put out a meme or a video, you know That's extremely funny yet exposing an important truth It's devastating to these people these frauds who exploit men And who who are predators on men on men who are looking for information and answers Who are disoriented by a culture that hates them? Whether they've been hurt by a bad relationship or a bad judge family court issue like There's a lot of predation on the pain that men go through because men are in pain And unfortunately my friend bob lewis author of the feminist slide says that a lot of men have a red pill blind spot Meaning that these predators and these frauds are effective because they can Ape some of the language that will attract these guys You know like i'm i'm red pill and you know feminism's gay or whatever And these guys like they're so hungry for leaders and for answers and for for someone to fight for someone to fight for them That they will they're much too accepting They get drawn into it basically and it's really sad But the humor that I use slowly right they laugh they find themselves laughing at the issues and they in the images And they wakes them up even if they're mad at me initially I I kind of basically I use the memes to slowly push them through phases of denial Telling you mentioned with the with the women I think it was you kermit Basically as women you start these feminists will start screaming and get angry at you even when you show them facts Well, they're they're in the beginning stages of denial anger, right? That's right And then they kind of you know go through some of the other phases and uh the grief and the uh the bargaining and the negotiation and acceptance and Begrudgingly right If you can get them there So yeah, I I've faced this on the transgender issue. You know, I have a lot of You know Trans exclusionary radical feminists the turfs that support, you know, uh stopping child transitions Wow gender transitions and and uh, you know, and I always point out to them like listen I mean you're complaining about you know, these these men invading female spaces, but You know in the 80s and 90s You spent all your time invading and eradicating male spaces Yeah, there aren't any more male spaces because radical feminists follow lawsuits to break into all of them and eradicate them So if you set the the legal framework for what's happening to you right now And they they they have they have extreme antibody reactions to that. Yeah, yeah Hey, uh, uh, what is it achilles 19? Um is asking a really good question He says where can we go online to learn how to use language that's powerful and will make us more masculine So I have studied this There is uh, literally not one thing Has been added to aerostautos rhetoric So I would say get yourself, uh, the penguin edition of aerostautos the rhetoric Sometimes it comes there's one that has both the poetics and the rhetoric But the rhetoric has Everything you need nothing you don't and literally rhetorical theory has an advance not even one concept Has been added if you read a modern book on rhetoric not one thing has been added to what aerostautos wrote And let me give you an example of the kinds of things you'll find there that you won't find in any modern textbook He asked questions like Suppose that you want to produce anger in the audience First of all, what are the circumstantial prerequisites for that? Secondly, what are the intellectual prerequisites in the audience to produce anger? What are the circumstantial requirements in the audience to produce it? And if you can provide all these circumstances, how can you provoke it? Like you never see that kind of stuff in modern rhetoric books He talks about, you know, the emotion of pity anger interest curiosity humor And he goes through the use of the passionate nature in man And how to use it in your rhetoric and no other Rhetoric book that you buy in the modern world will talk about those things So you might as well just go back to the original source read aerostautos the rhetoric you can get it for 995 on the penguin edition. I recommend you also get the poetics Because the poetics is very short. It's only like 40 pages But it describes how to build stories and how to tell stories If you remember my presentation at the the the 21 convention last year I told I did two presentations Presentation I gave to the patriarchy. I told completely through pictures of my sons And told a complete story about political influence and the family court systems But only through the pictures of children My sons and this is a very powerful way to tell the story And I got the idea for that and how to structure that from aerostautos poetics So my short answer to you is simply read aerostautal on rhetoric A woman of that I'm a fan of aerostautal. I ran was a fan as well. It's her favorite. It's her favorite philosopher Even above her second favorite was actually st. Thomas Aquinas But her first was it was aerostautal. Yeah Yeah, um I wanted to ask you a question uh going back earlier to our group discussion with carnell So when i'm thinking through and i'm hearing all the Atrocities is what I would call them a family court against men It seems that overwhelmingly these problems affect men In terms of the adults and then also the children through direct and indirect means Uh directly Yeah, I don't need to go into details in that but it in a lot of different ways There's a lot of people getting hurt by this and it seems like a big snowball of corruption And bureaucracy, but mostly corruption. I mean this is like some really sleazy Slimeball money crap going on And then on top of that the ideology the radical feminism Uh, you know this woke socialist crap and the government's, you know Brabbing each other off to to prey on fathers and men. I mean this is like several layers of f up Um, but I did want to ask you if you can you don't mind sharing your opinion If the founding fathers were alive today and were aware of all this crap, what do you think they would do? What do you think their? Uh Response would be emotionally and psychologically and even strategically Like this seems like stuff they'd go to war over in my opinion Yeah, uh, look when I testified to the texas senate, I explained to them that this constitutes a long train of abuses All of which have one object tyranny Yeah, and that was the criteria for revolt laid out in the declaration of independence This is a long train of abuses that goes over 40 years It's at all levels of society It has been designed to prevent you from convening in times and places where the government can redress your grievances It's been designed to prevent you from speaking about it to your fellow citizens Um, I'm under an illegal gag order that I don't follow Um, most parents are most when you go into you will lose your freedom of speech as soon as you go into family court They'll just put a gag order on you Um, so a lot of fathers don't speak about this. Um, they're they have uh created the conditions where is it? Assemble the financial resources to fight back Where is it in the constitution too that they can suspend the first amendment when they when their emotions feel like it? Or some judge says I don't care There there is no um, one of the reasons you'll never find me really talking about the constitution very much is Um, I I don't think the constitution has constrained the government for about a hundred years Yeah, and I don't live in a fantasy land where constitutional arguments Even apply anymore the government is going to do whatever it wants What what we're in a position now is where they are using naked political force against us Yeah, and you have it once you understand that then you realize you have to produce naked political force against them And political force takes the form of voting numbers It takes the form of donor money It takes the form of reputation Assassination and building up people's reputations It it takes those kinds of forms. Uh, so it's a combination of numerical voting and rhetoric And if you want this to stay non kinetic If the people in power don't want this to turn into something really bad Uh, they want to keep it political They're going to have to start making political concessions because they've just disaffected So many men you cannot take children from fathers on an industrial scale And raise them in values contrary to their own and force them to pay for it You just can't do it on this scale without civil unrest Yeah, this is it's extremely angering like It it is so profoundly un-american and unpatriotic that they do this crap and it's so aggressively anti family I look at the family as the base, uh, the base polity and the base structure of any society I mean, it's it's I mean it's the declaration in pennant states that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men Right, really really that means family men Correct single 20-year-old singer bachelors are not trying to build a government to secure the rights Because they don't have wives and children to protect right it's it's It is I think the founding fathers would be yeah, they would be kinetic at this point They would be beyond furious that governments are being utilized to To harm children and to harm fathers and to harm men like I'll go further with what I said, um You know, uh, I'm going to choose my words very carefully here. Yeah I do not believe That change in this system Particularly in the way the courts operate the courts are operating completely lawlessly The judges have no check and balance on them. The legislators do not exercise their rights of impeachment So there's no check and balance on the legislature The people are the only check and balance left for these judges And um, and I'm going to talk in terms of voting here I'm not I want to make that clear But until the judges fear us Until the legislators fear us And I mean fear There won't be change There will not be change Yeah So I would encourage your listeners who are interested in rhetoric to read what the preconditions For inciting fear are in Aristotle's rhetoric Yeah, a woman a woman of that brother I decided and I don't know a little bit lighter note, but yeah, they do need to fear it They need to fear the people they need to feel the people fear the people who Yeah Right when when the government fears the people you have freedom when the people fear the government you have tyranny That's the that's the basic Most basic definition of a tyranny that that exists Yeah Now I want to it what comes to mind as well I've heard melissa isaac attorney melissa isaac a speaker from our event You know or as well through other, you know men's rights issues She said once if I can quote her correctly that the entire family law system in the united states needs to just be abolished Like you've abolished and just rebuilt Literally from scratch because it's so fucking toxic and dysfunctional and corrupt and evil like you can't even fix it I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if she intended it to be like a black pill like that like an elastic thing I don't think she's pessimistic I think I think that's her very real position being a family law attorney one of the best in the country as I understand it She is and she's absolutely right about it. Um, the family law didn't exist Prior to the late 1980s a lot of people don't know that Wow, I didn't I didn't know that yeah Uh, the family the family law is civil law. So you just went into a civil court Yeah, right. We didn't have special family courts Special family courts were created because of the title 4d program Because they needed the courts to violate the law in order to get the money Yeah And so they created these special family courts which the appellate courts treat very differently than normal civil courts Let me give an example of that If I was in a contract dispute and and we were in a lawsuit in a civil court And uh, a judge let's say a judge issued a temporary order Um to uh, that I couldn't use uh heavy equipment in my business and that was going to ruin my business I could appeal that to an appeals court to get a check and balance on this judge to get a second look at that And say wait a minute did this judge make the right decision? Right? Yeah In family court, I can't do that So when this when my judge judge bloody I call her judge bloody mary brown 301st district court in dallas, texas When bloody mary brown issued her illegal gag order Um on me. I was not allowed to appeal that That's crazy. That's like a yeah, that's a that's a explicit violation of your right to due process You are correct and that's statutory. It's in all the states They have statutes would say you cannot appeal Interlocutory orders from family courts. There's no check and balance on the judge So similarly when she took my children away from me and said you can only have supervised visits with your kid If you will be with your son in a dress and all this other stuff and I won't do that So, uh, that was a temporary order. I can't appeal that either It's like it reminds me when I first met you and interviewed you at that small the local republican county event. Yes, what comes to mind is the concept Legally and strategically of an interposition Where law enforcement gets involved like sheriffs, for example and historically have it done this where they start arresting judges local politicians They refuse to enforce what they consider to be illegal and criminal laws At least by at least by their state constitution, if not federally as well This stuff is this stuff is vicious. This is sick. It is It's domestic tyranny one of the reasons i'm not in jail Is because you know, I've refused to follow this gag order that I'm in maximal criminal contempt. I mean, I've told the judge I have maximum contempt for her as a judge for issuing an order violating the rights of a taxon I have maximum contempt for the text of the order itself. I'm telling you in court under oath I have no intentions of ever following your illegal order And you I told her she's obligated to give me the maximum sentence for criminal contempt, which is 180 days Yeah, now she won't do that because then I come under the criminal rules instead of the civil rules And in the criminal courts That will not stand that illegal order would never stand It actually wouldn't stand even in a normal civil court on a contract dispute It will only stand in family courts Which have been set aside as lawless areas where the appellate courts are will will not enforce the law Yeah, so she's right Melissa Isaac is right. We should abolish family courts and just make them civil courts I've advocated actually that we should bring Family disputes under the criminal law, which the much higher standard Of of evidence that obtains there And also it would ensure that every person that's accused of a crime in those courts Domestic violence or whatever Would be would be given an attorney Yeah, wow So I think it should come out actually up under the rules of criminal law rather than civil law This sounds smart too because these are no it doesn't make it easy But these are fundamental changes that would fix vast swaths of problems swaths. Yes Yes, absolutely And the a lot of people don't know but you know in in a family court the civil rules apply So decisions are made on the preponderance of the evidence Not on You know beyond a reasonable doubt So if the judge can just find any evidentiary basis To say that there was 51 percent more reason to believe the mom Then they can do that and that that pretext is always available to a judge because of the subjectivity of the interpretation of the evidence so Now something else I want to bring up that I saw I think it was melissa. Um, either her or bobby bob loose I think it was lice of them It's that the The only area of law anywhere in the united states where At least as it's supposed to work right Where the judge does not rule according to the rule of law Is family law courts where they don't rule according to the rule of law Obviously like you're saying they rule according to what she calls I think the cult of the child and that's the child's best interest which is just a judge's opinion And that needs to end I think too and that that's unique and There's no exceptions in the constitution where these judges can just rule for their fucking opinions and shit They have to rule according to the court through the rule of law and their opinion according to that Yep, it's called the best interests of the child doctrine and um, it's very pernicious, uh Because uh, look if you have would would you think that a a muslim appearing in your court would have the same notion of the best interest of the child to an orthodox jew who appears in court or an orthodox christian like myself or um, you know someone who uh, who has a cultural background from ecuador Rather than from texas There's no objective definition of the best interest of the child. It's it's culturally based It's based on the customs and practices of the family and their ancestors When did this start to the cult of the child thing the interest of the child 80s? It started with title 4d um The statutes for example in texas require a judge to always rule in the best interest of the child regardless of whether it's legal or not Wow So in practice what this means is that the parents are not in control of the determination of the best interests of their own Children to put it simply the judge decides how to raise your kids. They're just going to make you do all the work and pay for it Yeah, that's how it actually works. That's tyrannical We've had several cases one of them out of my county dentin county here in texas a republican woman judge shipment judge schittman um actually gave Partial custody To the boyfriend Of a father's ex-wife after she was killed in a car accident Wow think about this She had an affair with this man which broke the which broke the Marriage up and then the judge gave the boyfriend that broke the marriage up visitation rights and and so For 30 of the time this father didn't have his kids and it went to the boyfriend that broke up his marriage, right? Wow, so this went to the texas supreme court and the texas supreme court determined that the issue In the case was whether the fit parent presumption applies In temporary orders hearings and what that means is the fit parent presumption is supposed to apply in all family court hearings And it means that the judge does not get to determine The best interests of the child if there is a fit parent In the courtroom the fit parent determines that yeah, there's lots of federal jurisprudence on this as well That children don't become awards to the state just because they're in family court But it doesn't matter family judges have no oversight. They have no appellate oversight They have no oversight from the from the legislature And so the judges just do whatever they want knowing that they can't be overruled Even though it's against the law and they know it's against the law They'll even often tell you that they know it's against the law, but they're doing it anyway in the best interests of the child This to me It it sounds like dangerously close to treason and that these people should be facing like Criminal these judges should be facing criminal prosecution Like really the sheriffs need to be throwing cups on these people like to to so flake to so flagrantly Violate your oath to uphold the rule of law As an elected official and as a judge as any politician and make running children too. That's right like it has to be These violations that these are violations in my very common sense understanding of their oath To uphold and defend the state constitution of the state they're in and the federal constitution This is like this is this is treason in all but name And it is and it's obviously Abuse uh under color of law Yeah, but here's here's the other problem So then then you could go to federal court and you would have a federal court oversight, right? Because now you have civil rights abuses under the color of law, right? And these are successfully prosecuted all the time right in other areas right criminal law in particular So you take these up well the supreme court of the united states has created a rule for the federal courts called the domestic relations exception And the federal courts simply will not accept any case regarding civil rights from the family courts They just say a priori. We will not accept them. They're cowards. They won't touch it. Yeah, that's right Now the sheriffs in in texas. I can't speak for all states, but the sheriffs in texas are tied in with the da's The da's are probably the most powerful lobby group in the state of texas And they are there to support and pretend judges that rule the way they want So da's in general are going to always support the judges You're never going to get some systemic relief from da's and sheriffs With regard to judicial misconduct. Yeah, it's corrupt all the way up and down the whole system That's why I say until they fear us there's not going to be any change Well sheriffs in my understanding not that they very few act on it a few have but not many Sheriffs nationwide are the supreme law enforcement officer in their county. They're the only constitutional law enforcement officer Yeah, that's actually actually correct. I want to clarify my statement earlier I said that what they're doing is treason that might not be too true technically But I think what is true objectively is that these judges That act in these ways and that that Flagrantly violate their oath to uphold and defend the constitutions These people these people are traitors to their country. They're traitors They are whether or not they've betrayed it to a foreign nation obviously is not in question necessarily some cases maybe but They're traitors to the spirit and to the rule of law of their country and to their countrymen It's sick. They're traitors to their people And they should be treated that way I noticed that liberals or idiots is saying, you know, it's important to appoint or elect the right judges He's absolutely right. The two most important elections that you vote in you probably never vote in They're they're your district judges And your da's why? Because both of these offices have absolute immunity. No other offices Elected offices anywhere have absolute immunity and what I mean by that is If a judge or a da Knowingly and intentionally commits felonies in their office to violate the rights of citizens They cannot be prosecuted for those acts if they were if they were in the course of their normal public duties They that there's no other offices which have these immunities So even if we could prove that a prosecutor executed an innocent man here in texas If that was done in the course of the prosecutor's official duties, we cannot prosecute him for that That's how powerful these people are The but the the district judge has a power that even the district attorney does not have The district judge people talk about gag orders And that's a huge power to silence someone, right? Yeah big power But we don't think about the other side of that that a district judge has the power to compel speech And that is an even more awesome power So, you know, these people are the absolute most powerful people That exist in governments. They are at the local level And they will determine whether you stay free or not And they're little most important. Yeah, absolute most important elections that you cast the vote for Everyone should visit your local district courts family district Civil and criminal and see what judges do in their courts. You have a right to view trials Um, it's it's a it's a public right. We don't have secret trials in in america You have a right to go and view trials. I'll tell you something else It's not a jury duty. It's a jury right. You have a right to sit on juries To check the power of judges and da's It's your right to protect your fellow citizens as a member of the jury And that's called jury notification is what you're talking about. That's right. That's right Now the judges are going to do everything they can they're going to ask you Do you think that you can overrule my instructions? Uh, do you think you can vote the way you want in the jury box? Do you think that you can Vote not guilty if you don't like the law and if you answer yes to those the judge will strike you from the jury I just suggest you don't answer And just get on the jury Yeah, it is. Yeah, fuck it. Fuck these judges, man Because the the last if we could actually get jury nullification in this country everything could be fixed There is the the system has no way to stop us when we're on a jury There's no way to stop us Well, plus you got the the pleasure of making these judges freak out and realize that they're That they're the emperor has no clothes. They're absolutely powerless against the jury. They have no power whatsoever against the jury So that's one of the great things about texas. There's a lot of bad things about texas But one of the great things about texas family law is that in order if they're going to take your parental rights You have a right to take that to a jury So and and if they're going to take terminate your parental rights, it must be done with a jury We're the only state that still allows jury trials Over parental rights every other state is just done by one man the judge Yeah, judge judge, but they call it bench trial. Yeah. Yes. Yes, and that's also illegal, by the way You can't have your rights terminated without a jury. That's illegal under the constitution, but they do it anyway Unless both parties consent to it like am I I have a I have a civil law see right now that actually just we won something Earlier this week was pretty awesome But we also in the end though it is going to a bench trial with the judge because that's what both parties wanted Wouldn't need a jury in it, but this is that's a that's a business dispute. It's not a family law thing And no one no one forced me to do that Yeah, you can always weigh the jury trial you can always weigh your right to a jury trial and for business stuff That's pretty common to an arbitration. Yeah, there are really good reasons to do it Yeah, especially if you're dealing with something technical that could just confuse a jury and you don't know which way that we go Just better believe it after the judge Yeah, exactly The problem with family courts is the judges are so biased that having a jury is a real benefit And texas is the only state that offers that benefit Wow And so you should you should eagerly try to get on juries you should not think of it as a duty It's a right and did you know that if you go down and volunteer to be on a jury They will roll out the red carpet for you. They will they'll give you coffee donuts Probably by your launch because they can't get people to come in and be on juries So if you're willing to go down there and volunteer, they're like so grateful to you for it And you can be a huge a huge advocate for your fellow citizens and protect them by being on those juries Yeah, I learned about this through being a ron paul fan and supporter about probably 10 12 years ago Because there's a lot of ron paul fan supporters who are very much in a journal application for anything Any kind of stupid criminal government abuse, you know So yeah This talk a lot with conservatives because conservatives are very confused about this by the way I asked them. What is the law? And you they usually point to the statutes They'll tell me well, it's what's written down in the in the statutes And I said, okay. Well, so suppose you're on a jury And and a prosecutor says hey, here's an 80 year old man And we caught him doing 25.001 miles per hour in a 25 mile an hour zone. And so we cited him for speeding Would you convict him? Because under the statutes, he's guilty, right Yeah, if that's what the facts show would you convict him? Was he actually speeding? All of them tell me no, he wasn't really speeding That's because the law is not what's in the statutes The real law is in the customs of the people And how we apply the statutes to real situations Which is which is done by whom in our system. It's done only by juries Yeah So the real law is when the juries take a jury of your that's why it has to be a jury of your peers Some people who live in your community and know your customs Then apply the law to your situation because where I live the speed limit is actually plus or minus five or 10 miles an hour Depending on how fast traffic is going and what the safety conditions are That's the real speed limit I know for a fact too that in Orlando they used to there was a lot of local activists who would support jury nullification And it would the judges would get super mad and try to get the cops to throw them off the property and stuff Oh, they were they were passing out pamphlets to all these jurors going in for stuff Yes, they were like nullify nullify nullify and the judges were just spazzing out. I love it I mean another example is irs cases at the federal level the irs wins 95 of its cases in its own courts And loses 95 of its cases when they go to federal court Why is that because you know what juries just aren't going to convict little old ladies of tax crimes Yeah, little lady didn't pay a thousand dollars in taxes. Well, we're not going to convict her for that. That's not illegal We don't think that's illegal screw you irs So that just shows you the effect, you know 95 percent versus 95 percent the other way Well, I grow in hate centers too. Yeah, I mean is anybody like the iris and no Nobody likes the iris and we all know that they exploit people and and exploit people who can't defend themselves You know, and so juries can slam them and they do they do a lot of times Um, same same in criminal law. I'm all in favor of nullification in criminal law as well as in civil law Yeah, um In in family courts during nullification would make a massive difference for fathers And so men should eagerly try to get on juries That should not be something you shirk Yeah Hey woman Yeah, well, jeff. I'm gonna I want to wrap up the show. I'm gonna get going here It's been a really good time having you and carnell on I think the audience learned a lot I know I did and I think uh, it's one of our best episodes. We've had in a long time Very good content man. It's good stuff. I really enjoyed it and I I cannot wait to get back to the convention Uh, I've I've been talking to everybody about it. It's what was it was really the highlight of my year last year I'm not just saying that I had so much fun Um, and I just can't wait to do it again Yeah For everyone watching this is the event that jeff's talking about you've heard about it earlier in the episode today too Go to 21 studios.com to learn more about the events get tickets get all the details and stuff all the dates And the speakers and all that stuff. We do have events for fathers. That's the blue one We have events for younger men any men really can go to the main event, but it's kind of for men who are not The blue event's basically for men focused on the fatherhood and family issues The red event is kind of much more A broad scale of you a panoramic Panoramic view, excuse me of being a man and of masculinity And most men there are bachelors, you know young and single and stuff But men of any age attend and this one though is mostly just for fathers This one is for the ladies your woman It's time to uh deprogram your feminist brainwashing and become great again coming out to all the events Jeff will be most likely speaking at all the events uh last year you spoke with two out of three and this year I think I'm gonna have you at all three. So I'm looking forward to that Yeah, it'll be fine, man. Can't wait. Yeah So jeff thanks for your time everyone else thanks for tuning in today I appreciate your time your attention your likes your subscribers and you know subscription comments donations. I appreciate it all Uh links in the description You should be will be added for jeff younger and carnell smith to learn about them And other than that i'll see you next saturday on the red man group and happy father's day to those of you who are fathers Including you jeff Thank you