 Ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome to IJA India Insights. We have with us a very special guest, Mr. Rahul Gandhi. Of course, member of parliament, a key leader of the Indian National Congress, and also someone who started this historic Bharat Jodo Yatra, which entailed traveling thousands of kilometers across India. And now a fellow at Cambridge University, of course, and we gather that's where he was over the last few days doing all things academic. But before we get on with the talks, just a few words about the Indian Journalist Association. We were established in May 1947, well, a year which no Indian can really forget. Yes, we were born right here in London. And yeah, and that is the year when India became free from the colonial rule. V.K. Krishna Menon was our founding father, someone who was a freedom fighter, a diplomat, also a Congress leader. And since then, our member-led association has become a sort of umbrella body for foreign correspondents who write and report for the media in India. Over the decades, IJA has hosted individuals from across the political spectrum, from Jawaharlal Nehru to Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Arun Jaitley, Nitin Gadkari, and from Harold Macmillan to Margaret Thatcher, Boris Johnson, and Rishi Sunar. So we are very pleased that Mr. Gandhi has agreed to give us some time. He is, of course, from the Indian National Congress. And I'm sure most of us here know that the Indian National Congress is the oldest political party in India. Devotedly worked for the freedom struggle, laid the foundation for a free and modern India. For much of the 75 years since the party has been in power, but I guess now the party and the leaders are discovering that even if they are not in power, they are still constantly under the media glare. And the latest breaking news seems to be Rahul Gandhi's trimmed new look. But no, that's not what we are going to discuss here. We don't want to know, Mr. Gandhi, what you wear, what you eat, or rather what you don't eat. And there's a reason for that. The success of any democracy depends not just on the ruling regime, but also the vibrancy of the opposition parties. And we will use this opportunity to have a wide-ranging and serious discussions from politics to public and from perception to performance. So without much ado, Mr. Gandhi, again, thank you very much. I'd like to begin from the... Well, thank you. Thank you for having me here. This is the second time I'm coming here. And the last time I came, I had quite an enjoyable experience. So I look forward to the same again. Thank you. I hope to continue to invite you. I'd like to begin, Mr. Gandhi, from Bharat Joro Yatra. That seems to be a leaf taken out from Mahatma Gandhi's book. And it reminded so many of us about the several journeys that Gandhi ji took during the British Raj. And of course, his Yatra was a Bharat Choro mission to drive the British away, to end the British Raj, in which we, of course, eventually succeeded. What is it that Rahul Gandhi seeks to achieve with this Bharat Joro Yatra? Well, the idea of a Yatra, of course, Gandhi ji's is the most remembered and most effective Yatra in recent memory. But the idea of a Yatra is a much older idea in India. And it's been almost in the DNA of our country. This idea of walking across the country and doing so, suffering a little bit of pain and doing it over a long distance of time. If you read about even people like Guru Nanak ji, even Buddha, Mahavir, large numbers of really great Indian people have walked across the country. And the idea is discovering the country, listening to the voice of the country, but also understanding yourself, understanding yourself, introspecting, doing something that is little difficult, painful. So this is, it's part of it. And it's been, it's embedded in our historical tradition. BJP also had a Yatra, if you recall. That was a Rat Yatra. And there's a philosophical difference between these two Yatras. And it sort of hits at the ideological difference between us and the BJP at the contest of ideas that are taking place. If you remember, the Rat Yatra had a rat in the middle. It was followed by lots of other cars. But there was a central, there was a central Rat in the middle of the Yatra. Rat, of course, is a symbol of a king. And that was completely missing in our Yatra, right? Our Yatra was a mobilization of people, but a equal mobilization of people. So there was no Rat. There was no talking down to people. It was a embracing of people. And it was both an expression of the Indian people's voice and the Congress party and the people who were walking listening to that voice. And the reason it became necessary is because the structures of our democracy are under brutal attack. The media, the institutional frameworks, judiciary, parliament, these are all under attack. And we were finding it very difficult to put the voice, our own voice, and also the voice of the people through the normal channels. Normally the media would pick up these issues, but the media doesn't pick up these issues. And it's a tragedy in India. I mean, I'll give you an example. The three things that I heard and universally from young people across the board, unemployment, price rise, concentration of wealth, violence against women, none of these are in the media. So this is why we were required to do it. And what did it achieve maybe beyond even my expectation? What did it achieve? It placed an alternative vision of India on the table. A decentralized vision, a nonviolent peaceful affectionate vision, a vision where everybody is carried together. And I heard you say earlier that the Yatra, the journey was an opportunity to shut yourself down so that you can listen to others. Was there anything profound that you heard? I mean, how different is Rahul Gandhi today than the one prior to the Yatra started? I mean, the media loves to sort of keep saying that there's change taking place in Rahul Gandhi, which I think is a good thing. But this is part of a journey, right? And every individual has an evolution based on what they do, right? The Yatra almost required silence. It required, I was saying in the lecture in Cambridge, at the starting point, I began by saying, by giving my perspective to people. So when a farmer would come to me or somebody would come to me, I'd give my perspective and say, this is what I think. But soon I realized that there were too many people. And it was no use me giving my perspective because there were thousands of people, thousands and thousands of people coming. So I said, look, much more sensible is to just keep quiet. I had a little pain in the knee, so that was also disturbing me. So I just went silent. And if you wanna ask, the biggest change I noticed in myself was the capacity for patience. Just it's completely different than when I started. So just this perseverance, this long walk, listening to people, sort of continuous pain has, at least in that sense, I listen quietly. I don't sort of try to put my two words in. I think it's a very powerful thing. It is a powerful thing indeed. But coming back to something which I'm sure a lot of people here are very interested and eager and I'm referring to this recent BBC documentary which has garnered huge controversy. And one dominant narrative that has come out from New Delhi is that this is in some ways reflective of the colonial hangover. That Britain is still trying to meddle into India affairs. Not something that any sovereign country really likes to find themselves into or to be a target of. What are your thoughts on this? Yeah, it's sort of similar to Mr. Adhani. It's also a colonial hangover. Every place where there is opposition, there's an excuse. You asked why we did the Yatra. What was the idea behind the Yatra? The idea behind the Yatra was an expression of voice. And there is suppression of voice across the country. Suppression of voice, example is the BBC. But BBC is just one element of it. You found out, well, the BBC has found out about it now, but it's been going on in India for the last nine years. Non-stop. Everybody knows that. Journalists say intimidated. They're attacked. They're threatened. And the journalist who told the line of the government, how do you want it? So it's a part of a pattern. And I wouldn't expect anything different. If the BBC stops writing against the government, everything will go back to normal. All the cases will disappear. Everything will go back to normal. So this is the new idea of India. The BJP wants India to be silent. And they want it to be quiet. They want the Dalits, the lower caste, the Adivasis, the media, they want silence. And they want silence because they want to be able to take what is India's and give it to their close friends. So that's basically the idea. Distract the population. And then hand over India's wealth to three, four, five people. I mean, we've seen this before also. But that's not something that has just come out in the last nine years. You know, it's not something which is new. There is a historicity to anything. So in a sense, can we say that it's something which has just started silencing the media? Absolutely. I mean, it has never, ever been done at the scale that it's being done. There were periods. There were periods when there were aberrations. But this is full-scale attack on the institutional structure. This has never been seen in modern India before. It's completely different. I mean, politics is also a lot about perception. But people also expect performance in a sense that there has to be some tangible changes as well. Looking forward in 2024, what do you think is will be more important? Perception or performance or both? And how does Congress? Things are not black and white perception or performance. Are you asking about how the election is going to play out? Election is election. There is a lot of anger against the BJP. In the Bharat Chodoyatra, there's an undercurrent of anger. You don't hear about it in the media. It's almost, that was one of the most shocking things to me, which was that the narrative that is being peddled in the national media is just absolutely wrong. It's a lie. So what I, throughout the work, what I heard, unemployment, concentration of wealth, meaning Mr. Adani, joblessness, small and medium businesses being destroyed by ideas like demonetization and afloat GST, massive amount of money going through large businesses, nothing going to small and medium. This is what I was hearing, right? And then we sort of have this simplification that, is it going to be performance or to the other word? Perception. Or perception. Look, there's an undercurrent. There's a media blanket. So the election is going to be fought on these issues, the three or four main issues that are there on the ground. And I think what is also central to it is how the opposition is able to fight together. And then you have individual states that work differently. But I think if we are able to coalesce the opposition with a different idea than that of the BJP, we do very well in the election. But it seems that this, the political assentancy of the BJP, or rather the position that they have reached as a single largest party, that doesn't seem to be a factor in uniting the opposition parties. There are regional differences. There are leaders of all hues and cries. They don't necessarily sit together. And Congress being the leading opposition party, what role do you see for yourself? And of course, I'm talking about the 2024 election, which is on the anvil. How does it all play out? Because the opposition parties are still what they are doing. I mean, we have Tango, Maharashtra. I think there's a lot of coordination that goes on with the opposition parties. I think there are conversations going on between the opposition parties. I'm aware of many of them. And I think the basic idea that the RSS and the BJP needs to be fought and needs to be defeated is deeply entrenched in the minds of the opposition. There's no question of that. There are tactical issues that require discussion. Some states, they're very simple. Other states, they're slightly more complicated. But the opposition is very much capable of having this discussion and resolving it. We are also, it's important to understand, and particularly for the foreigners here, that the opposition in India is no longer fighting a political party. This is something that you say BJP, well, that's not who we are fighting. We are fighting the institutional structure of India now. We are fighting the BJP and the RSS, which has captured almost all India's institutions. So the idea of a level playing field doesn't exist. In the United Kingdom, two parties fight each other. And the institutions are neutral. That's gone in India. Institutions are not neutral. We are fighting the institutions and the RSS and the BJP. And every opposition person understands this very clearly. And most Indian people also get it. So that takes me to the next question. Political discourse is also a battle of narratives, now largely shaped by the media. And also, of course, the social media is playing a huge role as well. And Congress seems to be losing out on that. Why is it? And what is your- Why do you say Congress is losing out on that? I thought the last four months, we did a Yatra across the country, and we totally dominated the narrative. No question. The BJP kept trying to attack the narrative. Nothing happened. And it's a transformational thing that happened. I saw it with my own eyes. So this concept that you have that the Congress is not effective in social media, absolutely not. For the last four months, four and a half months, there was total domination. So that Bara Jyota Yatra has- The national press was forced to do it. Forced to do it. You started off by saying, oh, this is going to be a failure. In Tamil Nadu, you said, oh, the South Indian states are reacting very positively. Then we went to Kerala. I said, no, no, it's Kerala. Then we went to Karnataka. Then you said, no, first BJP state, you see, it won't work. Karnataka, it was even bigger than Kerala. Then you said, no, no, now it's not going to work in Maharashtra. Bigger success in Maharashtra. Then you said, no, no, northern belt is not going to work. Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, UP, everywhere, it worked. And if you look at the newspapers carefully, you'll notice the Bharati Yatra was everywhere. Even though the BJP keeps trying to distract and stuff like that. So this idea that Congress party or the opposition are losing the battle of social media figment of the imagination. That's good to hear. So Bharati Yatra has made that difference. Bharati Yatra is an idea. And it's a model. And it's a model that the basic design of which is acceptable to all non-BJP parties. What is Bharati Yatra saying? Carry everybody. Fight social injustice. Listen to everybody's voice. Don't use violence. Let the institutions of the country be the institutions of the country and not the institutions of an organization, of a fascist organization. That's what the Bharati Yatra is saying. It's acceptable to every single opposition party. It's as an idea. Get it. There's also this constant talk about Rahul Gandhi going to foreign soil and becoming a defaming India. That seems to be a very constant narrative. Especially when you visit countries. And this one has been no same. I mean, your Cambridge lecture has been cited as an example. There's nothing defaming India in my Cambridge lecture. Last, I recall the prime minister going abroad and announcing that there's been nothing done in 60 years of independence, 70 years of independence. I remember him saying that there's a lost decade of 10 years. There's unlimited corruption in India. I remember him saying them abroad. These were not things he said in India. These were things he said abroad. So I have never defamed my country. I'm not interested in it. I will never do it. Of course, the BJP like to twist what I say. That's fine. And the media likes to sort of play it up. I mean, it gives you TRPs and all. But the fact of the matter is the person who defames India when he goes abroad is the prime minister of India. OK, that's a different. You haven't heard his speech where he said, nothing happened in 70 years, insulting every single Indian, insulting every single Indian's parents, grandparents. Well, that's what I said. Independence didn't happen and the independence is washed away. So if that's not an insult, what's an insult? Or saying that there was a lost decade, nothing happened in India for the last 10 years. So what about all these people who worked in India, who built India in those 10 years? Is he not insulting them? He's doing it in foreign soil. No, that's what I said. That that's what the narrative that gets built up. Of course it does because there's money behind the narrative. There's Mr. Adani behind the narrative. There's billions of dollars behind the narrative. And there's a transfer taking place. The narrative is built up. And then India's wealth is given to Mr. Adani. So that's the exchange. It's a transfer. We don't accept that transfer. We don't do it. Hence, no narrative. Some very strong words, of course, from Mr. Gandhi. But just moving ahead, the free trade agreement discussions is on. And these are wide-ranging discussions, of course, of very intense and they cover a huge lots of area. From capitalism to climate change and everything in between, how do you see FDA getting, deciding the relationship between both the countries because it's going to impact the contours? I haven't seen the fine print and I don't know the details of the agreement. Once I see the fine print and the details, then I can comment on it. But I think as long as the details are okay, I'm not against it. And because you're in London, I have to ask you about the rise of South Asian origin or Indian origin politicians here in the United Kingdom. What does that tell you? Is there something that you would like to comment upon? That's a good thing. I think that's a good thing that Indian people are doing well abroad, not just in politics, in many different spaces. So it's a good thing. Okay, thank you very much for taking all those questions. I would now like to open up the floor. But before we begin, can I say that we'll prefer media questions, please, and keep it very brief to the point that way you will be more effective. And if we have time, we'll come back to it. So just... How much time are we... How much do you have? I think 10 minutes. 10 minutes, yeah. Yes, Mr. Amit Roy. Mr. Gandhi. Also, please identify yourself, your affiliation. From? From Telegraph, India Telegraph. India Telegraph or...? Yeah. Mr. Gandhi, do you think opinion in the UK matters at all in relation to the politics of India? You know, I ask that because when India came up in the Commons, Rishi Sunak said something which was seen by some people as an endorsement of the Indian Prime Minister. I mean, it was carefully worded, but what would you like British politicians to say about India? Do you think that they have a role and does it really matter? I mean, look, what British politicians say about India is the problem of British politicians. I'm nobody to advise knowledgeable people on what they should say about India. In the politics of India, day-to-day politics of India, what is being said in the United Kingdom about India doesn't really have a big impact. But in a globalized world, what people say anywhere, England, America, whatever, it has a little bit of an effect. But does it make people change their political decisions? I don't think so. Sanjay. Sanjay Suri from CNN Music in TV, Mr. Gandhi. Are you quite satisfied with the position that India has taken over the Ukraine war or the position not taken, which of course is in itself a position? There are some concerns that for India to face an invasion or an attempt at an invasion, which is not a hypothetical fear from China and Pakistan, India could try foul and have a lot of the world not listen. Well, I mean, as far as the Indian foreign policy is concerned, I support the Indian foreign policy and I'm okay with the Indian foreign policy. I don't have a huge disagreement with it. With regards to an invasion, we've already been invading. I mean, we've got 2,000 square kilometers of our territory that is in the hands of the PLA. So, and the Prime Minister himself has stated that nobody has entered India. Not a single inch of land has been taken and this has destroyed our negotiation position, right? Because our negotiators are being asked, what's the fuss about? Your Prime Minister says that no land has been taken. So that's one aspect of it. The other aspect of it, which I keep saying is India needs to be very, very careful with what the Chinese are doing at the border. The Chinese are acting in a hostile manner, in an aggressive manner and we need to be very, very careful. And I've been stating that again and again, I don't think the penny has dropped in the government. And I think there is a risk, as you say. Nabhanita? And personal point about India's democracy being important for global democracy itself. And in that respect, in a global atmosphere, given the way institutions are failing in India and the way things are changing, what you said that opposition parties are in touch, they're talking to each other, but what do you think on the ground action has to be taken to reset what democracy is in India? Because that is the most important thing at the moment. So one way of looking at it, as you were speaking, I was thinking about it. And people don't quite understand the scale of India and its democracy. So how would you react if democracy suddenly disappeared in Europe? Right? You'd be shocked and you'd be like, oh my God, that's a massive blow to democracy. Well, how would you react if something, a structure, three and a half times Europe suddenly went non-democratic, right? That's happened already. That's not something that is going to happen in the future. That's already happened, but there's no reaction. And you know, if we're talking about Europe, that's the thing that shocks me. There's no reaction, right? And of course, there are reasons for there not being a reaction. There is sort of trade and there's money and stuff like that, but Indian democracy is a public good. And if you're looking at the democratic, the democratic structure, it is the single most important public good. The largest, it's three or four times the size of the United States in terms of numbers, same with regards to Europe. So the surprising thing is that the so-called defenders of democracy, which are the United States, European countries, seem to just be oblivious that a huge chunk of the democratic model has come undone, right? Which is a real problem with regards to, and frankly, where the opposition is fighting that battle, right? And it's not just an Indian battle. It's actually a much more important battle because it's a battle for a huge part of the democratic people on this planet. As I said, we have placed, the opposition is placed a vision on the table. And that vision is an inclusive vision. It's a vision of bringing people together. And we're in conversation with the opposition. The opposition is talking to each other. And I'm confident that we will get something very interesting going forward. I'm not, I'm very optimistic. Aditi? Thanks. I must add the Aditi from Press Trust of India. Just wanted to ask now that Bharat Jorav Yatra has completed, concluded. What next? How do you plan to build on it? What comes next for you and also for the party? We've got some ideas. Of course, Mr. Kharge is the president. So we are in discussion internally in the party. And we've got some very interesting ideas of how we can move forward and also bring the opposition together. I don't want to sort of spoil the surprise. Okay. Rupanjana? Mr. Gandhi, I'm Rupanjana from Bortnaman Potrika. I have a question about, if Congress comes to power in 2024, how are you going to save the economy of India? And what will you change about UK-India relationship that's not being done at the moment? Well, I think in my Cambridge lecture, I said that production used to take place in democracies. The United States, India, Germany, Japan, Korea, these used to be production centers. And the Chinese have now wrapped up production. They're much, they're better at it. I don't appreciate the way they do it. They do it coercively. They do it using force. And so I believe that a model for production in democratic countries is absolutely critical for the 21st century. And I think there's a lot of work that can be done between England, India, the United States, Germany, all sorts of partners are there who can conceptualize and structure an alternative production model to the Chinese. That would include technology, it would be decentralized, but a conversation needs to begin. That's the first point. And that conversation not happening because India and the West simply deny this. They just deny that production is no longer effectively done in the democratic environment. So that's one thing. In India, there is, as I've said two or three times, there's massive concentration of wealth. The entire banking system is being used to protect one gentleman for one gentleman's businesses. And that needs to change. So there are clusters of production in India all across the country. There are millions of people who are ready to produce and the banking system needs to be opened up to them. Small and medium businesses should be able to take bank loans. Small and medium businesses should have technological input, they should have support. So that's one thing that we would certainly look at. And I'm not saying that there's no role for large businesses, there is, right? But there shouldn't be a role for complete and absolute monopoly of the Adani type. I think agriculture is a huge problem. One of the things that I heard throughout my walk was that agriculture in India is failing, right? And India needs to think about agriculture in the 21st century, needs to think about developing a coal chain, needs to think about how to create jobs through agriculture from the farm. So those would be two things. And I think again, again in the Bharat Jodo Yatra, it's very obvious that the Indian education system is not providing what it should to our youngsters. And there's huge opportunity there in changing the imagination of the education system, in moving it from being a memory-based, rote education system to one where actually children's imagination is embedded in it. So I think there's a lot of positive things that can be done, but you need to begin. Lavina? Congratulations for doing such a long Yatra, I have to say. First, you said the BBC documentary, if they had spoken four, then there would be five. Are you saying about the BBC documentary, are you saying that the Supreme Court judgment against Prime Minister Modi was actually wrong and raising a question mark to it? Number two, just listen. I cannot. Number two, what has your silence, is that it's very silent and that is very good. Has thought to giving you a model to deal with the three problems that upon employment and concentration of wealth. Have you come up with something which is like a model which you could alternate model that you could present? And also, would you be the next Prime Minister candidate in the elections, would you take a word from the state? Well, the point I was making about the BBC was that anybody who supports the Prime Minister blindly is supported and anybody who raises questions on the Prime Minister and the government is attacked and that's what happened with the BBC. On the idea, you're saying has silence helped you think about solving these three problems? That's not how these problems are solved. In large systems, in large countries, problems are solved by working with people and this idea that one person solves all these problems is not, let's say it's not very profound, it's superficial. These problems require conversations and they require conversations with stakeholders. If you're talking about small and medium businesses, they require large-scale conversations, they require responsive government to government that listens. So that, I don't agree with your idea that there is this top-down one-man Narendra Modi-style thing that he's got a magic wand and he runs around and fixes things and you can see that the results of that type of an exercise. What is your third point? Will you be the next Prime Minister candidate? That's not even up for discussion. That's a distraction and I don't want to get into it. Okay, Nareesh? Nareesh Kaushik. The central idea of the opposition is to get together and do everything that is required to defeat the RSS and the BJP. Nareesh Kaushik from BBC. I'm not going to ask you anything about my own organization. My question is about your China policy. You have been a critic of India's Indian government's handling of China, but we are not sure what is Congress Party's China policy. I mean, should India be closer to the West because China is seen as a bigger threat? So how do you see this? How should India deal with China? The Congress Party's policy on China is very clear. We do not accept anybody entering our territory and pushing us around and bullying us. Doesn't matter who they are, that's not acceptable to us. And what has happened is that the Chinese have entered our territory, killed our soldiers, and the Prime Minister has denied it. That's the problem, right? The idea, we have a relationship with the United States and we have a partnership with them and we have a shared democratic free idea. And I think there is a coercive idea on the planet and I think there is a democratic idea on the planet and I think the democratic idea needs strengthening, right? But you will not strengthen the democratic idea unless you start to fundamentally think about things like production, right? The huge amount of inequality that is erupting in the West and in India is a threat to the democratic idea. We have to think about that. We have to have a strategy for that. That's not on the table. And so that's what I'm saying. Military threat, how do you deal with that? You deal with the military threat militarily? How else do you deal with it? Poonam. But you have to understand the nature of the threat, right? And you have to respond to the nature of the threat. My concern, and frankly I've had conversations I've had one conversation with the foreign minister. In my view, he doesn't understand the threat, right? It was a conversation I had in a committee meeting. I can't comment on it, but he just doesn't understand it and he can keep saying what he wants. But in my view, there's a, the government is not understanding the actual threat from China. And a lot of commentators, a lot of commentators say this. Shabani, sorry, Poonam, yeah, I thought you asked your question already. Hi. Simply stating, the prime minister simply stating that nobody has entered our territory. Demonstrates that he does not understand the threat because the message to China with that statement is you can do it again. And that message was sent to the Chinese by the prime minister of India. Poonam. Hello. Thank you. Hi, I'm Poonam Joshi from ABP News. I wanted to, you mentioned that institutions have been taken over by the government that are expected to work neutrally. But looking at the media houses, most of them are playing the narrative of the ruling party. And in 2024, when the elections are going to take place, how do you plan to get your narrative across to the people of India who are hugely influenced by what's played on television? And also I'd like to know your thoughts on bulldozer politics, if you may want to. I think, I've said it two or three times, I think mass mobilization and ideas like Bharat Jodo are very, very powerful. As far as intimidation of any type is concerned, I don't like it. I don't like, I believe in non-violence and I don't like intimidation. That's my personal view. That's it, I mean, Shraabani. Yeah, thanks. And thanks for taking so much time. I'm Shraabani Vasu from Anand Bazar Patrika. I just wanted to get back to the opposition unity that you've been talking about. Well, you know, we had this statement from Trinamul Singh, they were going to go it alone. How are you going to tackle these big regional powers and big egos as well? You know, it's not, it's frankly, it's not my job to tackle it anymore. Mr. Kharge is going to tackle it. He'll of course have all, you know, the support of everybody who's working with him, but the Congress president is the person who has to think about how these alliances look and how they're structured. I of course have a view and I will tell him my view, but the actual work is going to be done by the Congress president. Are you confident at all? Now me, please quickly. A quick question. Regarding the Hindenburg report on Guautam Adani, George Soros said this will significantly weaken Modi's stranglehold on India's federal government and open the door to push for much needed institutional reforms. I may be naive, but I expect a democratic revival in India to which Jai Shankar said, Soros is old, which opinionated and dangerous and thinks his views should determine how the entire world works. What's your view on what George Soros said and on what Jai Shankar said? I mean, George Soros might have his view. I'm not really interested in that view. I see with my own eyes what's going on in India and I can see that Mr. Adani has gone from being the 609th richest man to the second richest man in a matter of three years. I can see that he's rewarded across the board. I can see he's allowed to dominate industries, every industry in the country. And we don't need Mr. George Soros to tell us that. We can clearly see it's happening. And he's got a very good relationship with the Prime Minister. Munira, who it goes to. They're concerned about who it goes to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can predict who it's going to go to if it's auctioned off. It's easy. His name begins with A. I haven't actually looked into the details of this question, but I can tell you that Mr. Adani seems to win every auction he takes part in. He doesn't need any experience to enter business. He gets the six most profitable airports in the country, has never worked in the airport business. So I can predict that Mr. Adani will probably get that lithium as well. OK, Khadija from BBC, I think. Last question. Message to all Indians is that you're part of this wonderful country. You're important for the future of this wonderful country. And the entire country has to come together and work together if it is to be successful. Suresh Gupta is a very long story. I think the use of violence against anybody is wrong. Mr. Gandhi, my name is Suresh Gupta. Newer newspaper. I'm settled in London since 1961. And I knew your grandmother, Mrs. Indra Gandhi, through Baal Saheo in India. Because I was working from 58 to 61 for all-day radio. And then your great-grandfather, Pandit Nehru, through Bharati Yoksamaj. You met him? Yes, I met him. I used to go to Trimursee House to get their signatures, et cetera, because I had a bicycle. And they were just nearing all these organizations. So what was your experience in meeting him? What did you think? Pandit Nehru was a great man. I always touched his feet. And he always blessed me. Mrs. Gandhi, your grandmother, was like an elder sister to me. She helped me a great deal. And she was a wonderful woman. When she came here in a press conference in London, after being imprisoned by Muraj Desai, a journalist asked her, what is your experience of prison in India? And she said, I don't want to talk anything bad about India in this conference. Now, you are being constantly attacked in the Indian media for your Cambridge lecture. I hope that you will take some lesson from what Mrs. Indra Gandhi said, because I am your well-wisher. And I'd like to see you become Prime Minister of India one day. What's your question? There is no question. So my question is. What's your question? Yeah, my question is. Please ask your question, otherwise. In nine years, that BJP has been in power. In your opinion, has Modi done anything good for India at all? Look, I answered this question a few days ago. I think the RSS and the BJP are attacking the foundation of our country, attacking the democratic institutional structure of our country. I'm sure there are one or two policies which I would agree with, but we don't really need to get into it. I've said it. But that's not really the point. The point is that, in my view, they are attacking the foundation of our country. And that eclipses any policy, any good policy that they do. So this is so fundamental that to ask me to comment on a good policy or a bad one policy that is good and another one that's slightly more effective, it sort of misses the point. This, to me, is bigger than everything else, right? OK, I think. And by the way, just to touch the first part of your question, have you actually seen my Cambridge lecture? Have you seen my Cambridge lecture? No, no, no. Have you seen it? OK, thank you. Thank you. You're not allowed to go in. No, no, no. It's on the internet. Well, everything is on the internet, and you can make your opinion. So that's interesting. I mean, you haven't seen it. You've got an opinion on it. I mean, that's a good point. I mean, if you have to make any opinion, please make an informed opinion. And I think that just concludes our session. I would like to thank Mr. Rahul Gandhi for taking time out from a very busy schedule and coming here and taking questions so spottingly. It is getting rare for political leaders to come out and answer questions in such an open way. So thank you so much, sir, for coming here, Mr. Gandhi, and speaking to all our members. Thank you very much to everybody. Can I just end? Yes, please. I'm sorry, in these type of situations, we have a limited number of questions. So there must be quite a few people who would have liked to ask a question, but were not able to do so. I apologize for that. Hopefully, I'll come back some other time and I can answer your questions, the ones who are left. Thank you. And thank you for your time and thank you for coming here. Thank you.