 or for tennis shoes, or for the direction of the church. If you don't know, now you know. Now you know. Oh my goodness. A month later, would you swag surf again? 150 people. That's not bad. I don't know what would happen. Would you do it again? Absolutely. It's about to go. Jamal Bryant is a horrible pastor. William Murphy is a horrible pastor. What they are though, they are representative of the new breed of pastors. And I don't think it should come as any shock that someone has a disdain and a dislike for the way they do ministries. As a matter of fact, let's just be clear. Let's be honest. Let's just say out loud what a lot of us who love the Bible and love the Lord are thinking, we wish that they never would have become pastors ever. We do not like their ministry. Their ministry is self-serving and is not godly. That being stated though, you'd be surprised how many people have a William Murphy-ish or a Jamal Bryant-ish type of ministry. And so now just recently, Jamal Bryant has released a podcast. I don't know why he would do so because he's a pastor. You would think that he would have a lot more on his plate. But he's got this podcast now to, again, if you're trying to grow your brand, well then this is the thing to do. And so he's got a podcast that's called Let's Be Clear. And in the podcast, he introduced for his very first guest, who do you think his very first interview on his podcast is his brother, his buddy, his BFF, William Murphy. The last few weeks, you have been time broke off with headline news. Oh my goodness. And I really want to be clear on what is the church for this generation? Yes. What is the church for culture? What is church for society? Yes. And I want to move backwards. You started off the year doing a baby dedication. No, you did a baby baby dedication for two icons of the culture. No, no, first I started off the year saying. Now let's just start, let's hold on for a second. And we're going to do, we're going to go through this and we're going to do some stop, stop and start and look at the scripts as well. But he says he did a baby dedication for two icons of the culture. Now one of the ways I don't know, I don't know who this other lady is, but this is the girl, DeBrat, or actually not a girl anymore, she's a lady, DeBrat and her wife, her husband. I'm not really sure how that works. So I might be a little bit off on the correct verbiage, but did a baby dedication for that. Now he's going to say, well, no, that wasn't the first thing. And it wasn't the first thing. It's sad when you've got all of these different controversies that are just kind of ongoing. William Murphy has kind of, has been in the public eye for a while, but now he's becoming more infamous not because of his singing, but because of his lack or his disdain for just being holy. Just, it used to be that those that were charismatic would have the mantra of holiness or being a part of a holiness church, but that isn't the same. And let our uncle that we don't really agree with still come to Thanksgiving dinner. Well, the first controversy was around Bishop Carlton Pearson. My conversation was around, we all have an uncle who says stuff that's off the wall that we don't agree with, but bet nobody else say nothing about it. And the heart of that conversation was that we're serving a generation who does not feel safe in church, that the way that the church has handled our beloved. Now, let's stop for a second. He's the one, he's one of the few or one of the many, I'm not sure how many, who thought that what we did or what the church did with or to Carlton Pearson, the church was wrong for turning their back or our back on Carlton Pearson. Let me just say this, even though he's gone, Carlton Pearson was not worth the time for the body. Carlton Pearson turned his back on us. What we're gonna do, bring Carlton Pearson back to the church and buy him to the church so what he can tell us that all of us are wrong, that he can just kind of thumb his nose at the Bible. Oh, by the way, this is the very same Carlton Pearson who said this. Bible is not a totally accurate book. Anybody who says it's infallible in errant and only authority to where it hasn't read it, it's absolutely full of fallacies. So this thing has fumbling, fumbling down to us and people celebrate it and worship it, it's an idol. We literally, as I've done like this, we worship it and so we think that every word is literally accurate and true and it isn't. Science proves that, knowledge proves that, history proves that, archeology proves that. Yeah, so that particular Carlton Pearson does, should not be in the church. As a matter of fact, Carlton, if you were alive, I wouldn't say again, get out, get back. If you came to the church, sit back and listen, but you cannot talk, you have forfeited your right to be at the church or for us to listen to. It's not that the church turned its back on him, he turned his back on the church, but this person, William Murphy, who is a pastor, who is indicative of the modern pastor, who is indicative of the pastor who the Bible is not a big issue for them. But, and I was gonna save this, I was gonna save this, I was gonna kind of play with you guys and ask you guys to kind of think about this as you go. I even thought about even putting it in the chats and putting a little poll as to what, what do you think is missing? But I'll go ahead and tell you what's missing. And you go back and listen to this podcast. I watched the whole thing, I was on my way to the doctor and while I was getting ready, because they were doing some stuff with my eyes, I couldn't watch nothing, but I could listen and I sat and listened to the podcast. What do you think is missing? Let's just take a guess. What is missing in this entire dialogue between these, remember guys, these are two pastors, two of Atlanta's finest. I almost wanted to call this the Real Housewives of Atlanta or Atlanta's basketball, whatever you, whatever you call it, or real pastors. Yeah, yeah, that's it, the gospel. There is no, not one mention of, now the word gospel does show up in Christ. What did they mention Christ? Yeah, they mentioned him, but there is no discussion about that. How interesting. But this is a person that thinks that we ought to, we should have paid homage and respected. So what does a person have to do for us to put the person out? You know how Paul did, Paul tells the people to put the man's brother, I mean sort of the man's son who was with the father's wife out. What does a person have to do to say, you know what? Yeah, this person gets the old heave-ho. I guess with Carl's, with William Murphy, I guess nothing, as long as he's also an icon, as long as he has something to do with culture. And you'll hear a lot about black culture as well in this because, make no mistake about it, these two are more black than they are Christian. The way that the church has handled our most valued assets after they have displayed some type of humanity is just unsafe to people who have never been exposed to church culture. So my conversation, Dr. Bryant was around as a church, we've got to be intentional about creating safe space for people who have never heard the message of the gospel, which was. Now by the way, you're gonna hear this term, safe space. When you hear, when you hear the term safe space, what do you think of? Growing up, 51, I'll be 52 later on this year. It's gonna be a 152 year old, 52nd birthday. I've had an awesome 52 years, something up, something down, but 52 years has been pretty good for me. In that 52 years, I've seen a whole lot of stuff, heard a lot of stuff. I've never heard this term safe space. I've heard this term more and more lately over the last few years, when people who are just as weak and soft as, I don't know, as putting in the heater. I've never seen people who just, they wanna time out, a break from someone saying anything for the right not to have your feelings hurt. And so what is he saying? He says he wants the church to create a safe space. A safe space for who? That would be the question. A safe space for who? We're gonna get back to that. As a matter of fact, you probably even, you might just get tired of hearing safe space. I'm not sure I mean times recorded in this recording, but if you go to the actual video that I did, safe space is a word that's used an awful lot. Because Jesus is whole, that was his whole flow. And of course the Pharisees and the Sadducees, the religious order of the day. Okay, stop. I'm sorry. I have to pause. I've gotta take that and go back a little bit because he says something that is just absolutely. What's the word? What's the word? Stupid, blasphemous. Horrendous what he just said. You caught the tail end of it. Let me go back and play me one. Wind it back just a little bit because I want you to hear what he said. The whole kind of the crux or entails Jesus' ministry. Today took issue with Jesus because I feel safe in church. That the way that the church has handled our beloved, the way that the church has handled our most valued assets after they have displayed some type of humanity is just unsafe to people who have never been exposed to church culture. So my conversation, Dr. Bryant was around as a church. We've gotta be intentional about creating safe space for people who have never heard the message of the gospel, which was Jesus' whole, that was his whole flow. And of course, the Pharisees and the Sadducees, the religious order of the day took issue with Jesus because he was always creating safe space for people with safe, safe space again. I wanna fly to Atlanta and just grab him by the throat. I really do. I really do. And see if he can sing. That was Jesus. Okay. Got to remember the story in Luke. Where is it at? In Luke seven. I know I have it on here because I remember putting it on here. Luke's, there it is. Luke seven. Jesus is telling a story about this woman who's there at the Pharisee's house with him and she's done all these things to just adorn him with worship. She has poured perfume on him. She has wiped her, his feet with her hair. She's not cease kissing on. Do you know what Jesus said about her? Let me just put it on the screen. Let's put it on the screen. Asking about two people who would, who owed a debt, one a lot, one more. I mean, one little one lot. And both were forgiven. Who would be the one that loves the most? And he says, well, I suppose the one who was forgiven the most. Notice what Jesus said. He didn't say that this woman who is, you know, kind of out there, he wanted Jesus not providing a safe space, but two, notice what he says. He says, you did not anoint my head with oil, but she anointed my feet with perfume. For this reason, I say to you, her sins, which are many have been forgiven. The whole point that I want to bring out is that Jesus did not kind of gloss over. Jesus did not sugarcoat or speak as though the person didn't have sin. As a matter of fact, he would say, go and sin no more. That was Jesus. Jesus didn't go to create a safe space with anybody. Again, the church is not designed or set up to create a safe space. A safe space for what? A safe space for sin? Is that what we're supposed to do? No, as a matter of fact, when you come into the church body, when, he's going to bring this up again, and so I'll reiterate it, when a person who is an unbeliever comes into the church. And when I say the church, I mean the building, the actual building where we drive to or walk to, drive to, park our cars, and go and sit in the seats. And this is the word I got. When a person walks inside that building, they should feel different. They should feel as though the atmosphere is different. As a matter of fact, when they come around Christians, maybe not necessarily one Christian, if you're one Christian amongst 40 unsaved people, they may not feel a difference in the atmosphere. They may not, my sense of presence, they won't necessarily do that. Now, you by yourself, they should kind of get that, but that depends on how big a shadow you cast, how outward you are, because folks don't feel the Christ in you by walking up to you. That's not against you. But when people's mouths are opened and they see people moving around and they hear songs and worship, it should resonate with them, hey, this is unlike where I've been before. That should be the appeal, not the appeal to be like them. And what we see him doing, guys, this is the whole point. This is the new kind of gospel. This is the new kind of church. These are the new kind of pastors who want to, as best as they can, relate to the world. Who had never heard the message of the gospel. And so that was my whole argument, even with our daughters, Jessica and our college. Don't jump all the way in there yet, they're wrong. Okay. So, Bernie's King's first book was Hard Questions, Heart Answers. Wow. And one of the things that you have ripped the band-aid off is the church's inability to just have conversation. Yes. Now, let's stop there for a second. This is when, y'all forgive me. You know, you want to say something so bad, but you got company over, you got folks there, folks are listening. You want to say it a certain way. You want to say things a certain way. Let me back up for a little bit. Let me just back up for a little bit. I remember, now I'm not, y'all, this is a lot of the, a lot of my darker skinned Christian brothers and sisters will understand this. Maybe, maybe. I grew up in, you know, some bad neighborhoods, grew up in the hood. My mother, I told you all the story before, my father sold drugs, my mother used drugs. Well, when my mother was on the phone and me and my brother were in the background and we can hear her on the phone, do you know we could tell who she was talking to? We could tell the color of the person that she was talking to when she was on the phone. Do you know how we knew? Y'all know how me and my brother Chris, even my brother Chris, you know, I called my stupid brother, even my stupid brother, how we both knew the color of the person that she was talking to on the phone. Y'all know how, do y'all know how her tone changed? Her voice, her vocabulary changed. She began to pronounce things a little bit better. This is what we have here with these two. I'm trying not to say, you know, call these brothers' names. Not say brothers, you know, as in, you know, colored folk brothers. But that's what they're doing. They sit around and they act as though they're being intelligent as though they're in some think tank, trying to speak, now think about it. Think about the disconnect here. They're trying to speak kind of in an intellectual fashion about people that they're trying to reach on the streets. Well, that didn't go then. If you're gonna try to reach them on the streets, but you're trying to speak in this little educated way. And what you have done though is not only are you missing them, or I'm sorry, you're not missing them, you're bringing them in as they are and leaving them as they are. But what you're really missing is the whole point and context of the gospel. Which makes sense because what you're doing is you are telling people, or you're presenting a Jesus that's not in the Bible, that he came to deliver safe space. He's a political Jesus. He's a socially conscious Jesus. He's a compassionate Jesus. He's not a judgmental Jesus at all. Y'all do realize that Jesus does is judgmental. Y'all do realize he judges. Jesus knows everything about you. He knows what you smell like. He knows what you look like. He knows when you look around and don't think anyone's looking or seeing that. Yeah, he's there. He sees that. But they don't present that kind of Jesus. And what we have today is we have people who want to, as he says, have this conversation. Well, we have the conversation. The problem is the world doesn't like our answer to the questions. The world doesn't like how we speak in the conversation. The conversation goes like this for the Christian. Just in case Jamal and William is listening just in case they actually happen to hear. This is the way the conversation goes. This is sin, this is God. This is sin, this is God. If you are in sin, go to God and then you won't be in sin. You don't have to live that way. Here it is. Homosexuality is a sin. Heterosexual promiscuity is a sin. Sex outside of God's definition of marriage is a sin. Lying, stilling, that's a sin. Misbehaving in all sorts of ways. That's a sin. Oh, by the way, oh, by the way, oh, by the way, you're on your way to hell unless you place your faith in Christ because you deserve to go to hell because of your sin. Sin doesn't come up very much in this conversation at all. And people will take just one clip, one post. 90 seconds. Yes, and say that is the full summary of what your theology is. And what I really wanted you to talk about is how we can have compassion while disagreeing. It's the current. When we say you can have compassion with disagreeing, what that really means is you should, you should have compassion. You know what, I'm still trying to figure that out. What they really don't want though, they really don't want, if we disagree, is to not show the world why we disagree biblically. And if our disagreements biblically means that we have to call them heretics, fossages, whatever, then let's not do that. Let's go ahead, let's agree to disagree. Well, can I ask you guys a question? Did Jesus agree to disagree? No? Now, he did tell them. I don't know the tone that he said it in. I don't know what Jesus' voice sound like. I don't know what was he a bass, was he a baritone, was he a tenor, I don't know. I don't know, did his voice go up when he spoke? I don't know. I do know this though. He did say you will die in your sins. I think he was pretty clear on that. When Jesus spoke, Jesus spoke with clarity and authority. Did not stutter one bit. So, Jesus was not out to be, to agree, or to be, what is it? To disagree, but still be agreeable. Same with Paul. We can agree to disagree, no? Paul says you're going to help too. Peter, you're going to help. Matter of fact, Peter's way of saying you're going to help is you better hope I don't get, let me see if Jesus is around, because I'm about to pull this sword on you. That was the gospel, guys. Currency of the kingdom. Yes. I think, Dr. Bryant, this is so key. And honestly, you and I, we have very transparent conversations. I'm excited about this podcast because it's going to be a safe space for people to have fully trained. Safe space, safe space. That's going to be much, that it's going to be my trigger word for the day. Breathe a little bit. If he says safe space again, I might just lose it. Conversations without the judgment. Yeah. A lot of us are still working through our theology. I'm a few months away from graduating with a master's of divinity from Virginia Union University from the... When he said that, he's a few months away from graduating with a master's degree from Virginia Union. You know what I wanted to do? I wanted to, I had to. I went and looked up, Laquisa, you'd appreciate this. I went and looked up the curriculum for Virginia Union. Now, Laquisa goes to, she goes to DTS as well. Maybe we'll bump in each other one day, but I went to go look at the curriculum at Virginia Union. Here it is. Let me make it a little bit bigger so you guys can, can I make this bigger? There it is. There it is. This dog on it, what did I just, you know what, hold on one second. I got to fix that. Some sort of way, I deleted the whole thing and I don't know how to pull it back. I know how to get it back though. Let me pull this back up. I want you guys to see, if I can pull this up, I want you guys to see the curriculum. Where is it? There it is from there. There it is. Okay, now come back over here, sir. And click on that and move this over here. Uh-oh, if I can move this, hold on one second, guys. There we go. All right, now make this a little bit bigger. Okay, these are the classes I have. Church and its ministry context, intro to biblical studies. And some of these seem okay. Theology and theologian, and I don't know what theology and theological is, I don't know. Intro to preaching and worship. And this is the junior year. History of Christianity, history of the black church. Huh, history of the Old Testament, history of the New Testament. Intro into pastoral care, black preaching. Okay. I'm gonna go out on the limb and say that you're not getting a whole lot of deep, I'm not, listen, I'm not trying to bash Virginia. It's a historically black college, but I don't think that this is necessarily the best sort of theological teaching. Yeah, black preaching, yeah, that's, but then I get it, it is a HBCU, I get that. But if I had, if I were over an HBCU and I wanted to have a seminary, by the way, by the way, guys, the majority of our black majority, predominantly black colleges, started off as Christian universities. But then again, a lot of the former Christian, a lot of the universities we have today start off as Christian universities like Harvard and Princeton, so when they started off, they started off as divinity schools. Now, of course, things have changed, but I would make it deeper. I would want the scholarship to be serious, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But I just thought that was interesting. I wanted to look and see, well, I didn't know they even had a seminary there, but they did. Samuel DeWitt, Proctor of School of Theology. And just the other night, we were talking about what they call ATRs, African traditional religions. They're about 3,000 or more of them. And the thought of it is, the concept is that there is no separating what is secular and what is spiritual, because everywhere I go, I take God with me. Everywhere I go, I take the gospel with me. So there is no separation between what is secular and what is spiritual. How? Everywhere I go, I take the gospel with me, but yet you're not known for that. That's just, you are, the thing is when someone sees you, that you should be known by something. For good or bad, you should be known, you will actually, not you should, but you will be known by that. Ask yourself, what is someone like William Murphy known for? What is Jamal Bryant known for? That's why when people say certain things about me, those that like me, those that don't like me, those in between, you know, I take it and look at it, huh? Because it could be that I'm projecting something that I don't, I have no idea that I'm projecting when my wife says something, even though I don't wanna act like, I wanna act like I'm not trying, I hear it, because you wanna know what people think. And the way you're coming across William Murphy, gospel is not the word that comes to mind when people think about you, I'm sorry. Well, I'm articulated it is, we redeem everything, that we don't let the devil just take culture from us. And all we can ever do is a little church dance that probably 75% of Gen Zs can't even relate to. They've never seen it. I got a friend right by her DM, I'm swag, swag, swag, I'm swag, swag, swag, swag. That's what we wanna give him. That is what we wanna give him, not the little church dance. No, we wanna swag and surf and walk it out and whatever else I did. That's what we're looking for at your church, sir. And we're gonna go back again and find out that this is, what happened on New Year's Eve was not an anomaly with him. What happened on New Year's Eve was not a one-off thing. This is customary for his church. The deal is though, we're trying to find ways to be real and relate to people in the world. We want a new gospel, and y'all remember now, by the way, William Murphy, didn't even wanna talk about a new gospel. For me to tell 16-year-olds to be celibate is one thing. A 37-year-old who's used to getting some, I need a different kind of gospel. Yeah, you need a different kind of gospel. Okay, that makes sense why you two guys are buddies. We're up in church, grandma, half went, and so we're now tasked to win a generation who doesn't know who C.O. Franklin is, who doesn't know who Samuel the Witt Proctor is. We're now ministering to a generation. There arose another king who didn't know Joseph. Yes. So we've been here before, and so now I'm faced with, what do I do with a same gender-loving couple who now has a child who wants to dedicate that child back to God? What do you do if you are a pastor and you have, and that's how they put it, a same gender-loving couple. Couple things, first of all, you don't refer to them as a same gender-loving couple. You refer to them as two homosexuals or two lesbians who have violated God's covenant and have legally, but unbiblically, demonically gotten married. And you don't promote that, you don't affirm that. So what you do, as a matter of fact, as a matter of fact, what you've done is, well, I'm dedicating you, baby. Well, let's just be clear, let's be honest. Baby dedications have nothing to do with the baby. They have nothing to do with the baby. It's all, baby dedications and funerals have nothing to do with that person. It has everything to do with the family, right? The person in the casket has no idea or could care less what you got, how many flowers are there, who sang of this? And the baby, you know what? The baby does not wanna be around all these people. No, as a matter of fact, you might be in debt. Some of you folks got some germs and some sicknesses that the baby don't need to be around, but that being the case, let's look at what the Bible says. Now let's go to Romans one, because if you've got a person who is in a homosexual lifestyle and they wanna dedicate the baby, well, fine. I would say it this way, if you want to dedicate the, if it were me and you want to have, I would like for you to dedicate this baby. Well, I would say the only way we can dedicate this baby, honestly, if you want me involved, I can do one of two things. I can pray for this baby, unless, and if you wanna dedicate this baby to God, which, that's not a thing, but fine. Then we've gotta start by saying what you two guys are doing is the antithesis of what you're asking. Your lifestyle is antithetical to what you're asking me to do. You want this child dedicated, you want God's blessing upon this child, yet your lifestyle is going to bring harm on this child. That's how we dedicate it by giving the parents truth. And by saying, if you love this child enough and you love yourself enough, you would lead this God-awful lifestyle that you're in that's going to lead to both, or one or both of you, depressed, suicidal, and it's gonna bring about problems for this child. That's what you would do, pastor, that's exactly what you do. But when you affirm them, Paul says you're doing this, although these two pastors know the ordinance of God that those who practice such things are worthy of death. They not only do the same, but also give a hearty approval to those who practice it. Now, this is in Romans chapter one. We talked about what they don't bring up in this whole episode. Well, what they don't bring up in this whole episode is what Paul brings up. He says, for I am not ashamed, verse 16, of the gospel. Now, I wanna focus on this right here, this B clause of this passage. This is what's important, and by the way, this is what's missing. This is not the focal point of the modern church. He says, for it is the power of God for salvation, to everyone, to everyone who believes to the Jew first and also for the Greek. So what is the gospel? It is, or what does he say about it? It's the power of God. Notice that it is the gospel is the, we're not even told in this text what the gospel is, but we're told about the gospel. We're told that it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. All of the ones that are believing. All of those that are believing. By the way, I said believing because again, guys, this word right here, Pesunti, Pesunti is a present active participant. So, okay. Because we wanna be, we wanna be, show fidelity to the text and even the grammar, including the Greek. I wonder if they, if either one of these guys even know the grammar, I just, I just wonder if they even have the idea of the languages. But anyway, back to them. Is the child the sin? Is the, this is, this is what's not safe because, you know, I've seen all kinds of stuff. Well, now I believe in same. He almost said it, didn't he? He almost, he almost said safe space. He just said safe. He almost did it. Same, the word is I married them. Yes. I dedicated the baby. Right. I dedicated, let's, y'all say this with me. I dedicated a baby. Now those are our daughters. We're walking with them, we love them. I know the script it talks about. By the way, has there, does anyone, I don't know this would be the case, so I can't say one way or the other, but has anyone ever heard Jamal Bryant or William Murphy, have any of you ever heard them? Maybe it is. I would love to see it. Have anyone ever heard them say that lesbian or homosexual lifestyle is a sin? I'm just wondering, has anyone ever heard, I don't know if they haven't, I haven't heard it again because that's not what they're known by. But has anyone ever heard them say that? Implicit in what you're trying to do is to let people know about their fallen state and the way out of that fallen state. The way out of that fallen state is not to embrace the fallen state. The way out of sin is not to embrace the sin. Dog gone, funny past to you. Trying to watch my words. I'm trying, I'm doing my very best. I am doing my very best, but I've never heard them come out against that. Definitely never heard either one of them come against abortions. As a matter of fact, you got one of them giving the baby dedication, speaking of baby dedications, Jamal Bryant doing baby dedications while he's promoting abortions. Imagine that, we love these babies, but if the mama wants to kill them, amen, it's her right to do so. How can two walk together except they agree? But we can agree to disagree as well. How do you do that? How should two walk together if they disagree? What fellowship is life, but what does he do? Well, we have to, even if we don't agree, we can agree to be disagree. Wow. That's what I'm talking about, this safe family dynamic that I think we have abandoned because he almost said, he said safe family dynamic, but he didn't say safe space. I'm able to keep myself together. If I can't agree with you, then I can have no love or compassion or even proximity to you. And I think that was what got Jesus killed, is that he was raising these issues of being around people that were not quote unquote religious or sanctified or whatever the language would have been back in that. Did y'all know that? How many, you just found that out, didn't you? How many of you knew that that's what got Jesus killed? Yep, Jesus did, nope, he did not get killed for your sins. Nope, nope, nope, that's not how Jesus died. Jesus, let's do this stupid. This guy is, and no, I can't play, I can't play, you can be safe and stupid because I don't think, it's hard to say he's safe. This is how sad this is, I would much rather, much rather listen to, let's say Marcus Rogers or even Mike Todd than them. Much rather, I would listen. If you said you have to listen to one of these guys or Stephen Furtick, sign me up for Stephen Furtick all day. I didn't go there, I listen to Andy Stanley before I listen to these guys. Yeah, yeah, Danine, you learn something new every day. Who would have thought that we all have misunderstood why Jesus died? Thank you, Bishop William Murphy for enlighten us. Thank you. In that day that he was very intentional about being in spaces where proximity would create relationship. I think the church has been extremely guilty of cleaning fish before we catch the fish. Now, this is not just them. I did a video on the other channel, I don't know when it was, but there was a lady. I can't call her young, even though she's young, she's 40. And she's speaking about how churches, what churches have to do, but because this is what's happening now. We're talking about how we can put together programs and go at, this is secret sensitive on steroids. This is, no, this is secret sensitive churches on heroin and crack and fentanyl and everything else. Notice this. It's not a question about your theology, but how do you help people grapple with their humanity? And so we suggested that a lot of pastors take some classes on gender identity and how to discuss those issues. Okay. Take some classes on gender identity and how to discuss those. We already know that that's the, this is the audacity of these people nowadays that we have to take classes on gender identity. We already know, two of them, two of them. This new math that you come up with that we take the two and divide it by three and make it and multiply it. No, there's two. And we already know how to discuss it. By telling you, there's just two. Have you not heard that he made them? He created them male and female. He created them. That's how we discuss this, sweetheart. That's how we do that. From a theological standpoint, because these are the lived experiences of the people who have chosen not to come inside your churches. And if you are opposed to discussing people who have pronouns and whatever else, then you are going to get left behind. Then leave us behind. Because where you're gonna leave us behind is on this world, on your way to help. We're trying to help you. Listen, this club is an exclusive club, but it's always open for new members. It's exclusive, but it's inclusive. Not inclusive of sin, but inclusive of the person that wants to deny themselves and follow Christ. But you want people to do something new to go out and reach these people, that's the, there, therein lies the problem. And guys, this is the new church. This is the new pastorate that we're starting to see. This is the new gospel, which is no gospel, but that's what we're coming across now. As a bishop to confront the culture, doctrine, theology of a black church prism that says, we don't discuss LGBTQ, we don't. We do discuss it, we just. What is the role of the bishop to swag surf? What is the role of the bishop dedicating a baby from two same gender loving couples is that this is not just a pastor, but somebody who gives oversight to the direction and to the theology of the church. So you are not citizen gel. Right, and even in this context, I'm not Mr. Praise is what I do. I'm an apologist, I'm a defender of the faith, and my conviction about it, Dr. Bryant, is the conviction of Paul, that we have to be all things to all people, that I can have fellowship with you and not believe what you believe that they didn't show. The word on the street is the church is not safe. And of course, he almost said, the word on the street is the church is not safe. By the way, when Paul said that we should be all things all to win some, he didn't say, he didn't mean be like them. That's not what he says. It would be wrong of Paul to say so, knowing the Bible tells us, James 4, we know this famous passage, you adults do not know that friendship with the world is hostility or hatred towards God. Therefore ever wish to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Now, I know, I know, okay, how do I say that? Fatal, the collector says it's hard to watch, difficult to watch. Listen, guys, this is what's going to take over. This is what is going to take, this is what you're going to see over and over and more and more in our churches. Again, let me just say this, because I want you guys to be prepared. What is sound doctrine, godliness, holiness? That will be the norm. I mean, that will be the minority. What we see here will be the norm. Now, how soon will that be? I don't know. I said before, there's going to come a point in time where you're going to have more female pastors and male pastors, that's going to come. The time is going to come, as Paul says, when they will not endure sound doctrine, that's just not something, just a throwaway phrase that Paul puts in there. That's because it's going to happen. The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine. They'll have itching ears and they'll have people that want to go to people to preach what they want them to preach, to give them what they want it, where they'd be. And guys, guess what? It's not just a prosperity message that folks want to hear. It's not even always, now that will be the case in many cases. Sometimes it's going to, hey, get healing. Sometimes it may be that here you can be the greatest thing ever or you'll hear a message that says it's not your fault, it's someone else's fault. It's a demon's fault, not your fault, but a demon's fault. You can't, listen, you are 487 pounds, but it's a demon. You have been married seven times, but it's a divorced demon. You can't keep a job. But it's an unemployment demon. You didn't have four car accidents, but no, it's a Ford and Chevy demon. There's always somebody else to blame but you. But what you're really gonna have is a gospel that is, you take smiling Joel down in Houston, Joel Osteen, you take his gospel and you just kind of perpetuate that and you pour some hot sauce on it and you put some sugar and you put some Red Bull on it and you put some heroin and some fentanyl in that bad boy and you put some gas, diesel and you know what? Because we're liberal, we'll put some wind and turbine energy in it, we'll make it hybrid, we'll also make it, put an EV battery in it. That's what we have with this new gospel. The gospel says it's okay, it's okay. Come as you are, let's have fun, let's just do, let's live how we want to live, let's just injure. Matter of fact, let's take the culture of today and make it a part of church culture. Yeah, how about that? Of course in this dispensation where everybody has a therapist, one of the key concepts is you gotta get somewhere safe. You gotta find your safe space. I'm saying the church. He said it, he said it but listen, he said find your safe space, find your safe space. You know the only people that don't have a safe space are Christian, the irony, the only people that don't have a safe space are Christian but I'm not sure, I can handle him saying safe space. I think I can. We've been so, I'm just gonna say it because we've been so bound by religion and what was. Like, I mean, think about this. There are churches that are still fighting over women wearing pants, completely honest with you. What I didn't understand was the weight of my voice was the weight of our assignment in terms of leading the church forward. The church in a lot of ways has been another Republican party that what they're saying to me like the Republicans are saying stuff about Trump in private, that's what a lot of pastors have done with me. They sent messages like, bro, do you, be you, you leading us, we watching, break the walls down. Yeah, but I don't. That part I can agree, you know what? He's probably exaggerating that. I don't think a lot of pastors call him to, hey man, keep doing the same thing. But I know there's probably a lot of pastors like, yeah, let y'all leave that guy alone. Cause if you guys are gonna start looking at calling out sin, then I got to, so let's just, let's live and let live, let's not let no leave him alone. Cause then I want you to turn around and put your attention on me. I don't want the Nicodemus support that's gonna DM you. Yeah, like you guys, let me go shout out my homeboy Pastor Dietrich Haddon came out and of course they killed him too. He's a demon too, but. And now to my brother, Pastor William Murphy and the entire dream center church in Atlanta, Georgia. You guys know how to bring in a new year. Yeah, that Dietrich Haddon. Yeah, that, why wouldn't Dietrich Haddon who is supposed to be a pastor, why wouldn't he support you? Makes sense, doesn't it? That makes sense. So I get that, I get that. Today, the dream center church of Atlanta is not Kappa Alpha Psi. It's not a fraternity. It's supposed to grow. Wait a minute. Did he say it's not a fraternity? The dream center church is not a fraternity. Well, then what is this? By the way, just how many folks in the chat are 40 and over? How many folks in the chat are 40 and over? How many of you guys are 40 and over? 50 and over? Definitely if you're 50 and over, 60 and over. How many of you guys are no longer considered to be spring chickens? How many of you are no longer on the spring chicken side of life? The reason why I make that statement, monkey move said 40, you're not old nothing monkey. You're still young. Ernestine 69, here we go. Everybody knew this, black and white, even Hispanics know this. If you wanna claim how tough it is and you wanna talk about black culture and this and that and whatever, you know what you're supposed to do? You know what you're supposed to do? Even white folks knew this. Even white folks who didn't even like black folks. Even Hispanic folks. If you're Asian, everybody knew this. Don't go out there and embarrass people. Don't be out there embarrassing us. Matter of fact, some of your parents told you. You go to this store and you act if you want to embarrass me. Watch, I'll embarrass you back. So we got, this is the racial side. Got a whole bunch of black churches that are just embarrassing a lot of black folks. I told you the other day, a black guy said, I don't wanna go to eat. I don't even, that's why I don't even go to black churches anymore. And I'm black, I don't, why? Cause I don't want to see, cause now, let's be clear though, it's not just black churches. A lot of white churches have the same foolishness too. A lot of Hispanic churches. I don't know if we got a lot of Japanese or Korean churches that do this, predominantly Korean church. I don't know, but you know what? Maybe it's coming. Maybe it's coming. Bro, well 150 people didn't get to say, they just joined your church. Really bro, like, again, just further demonstrating that the church is just not safe. And all I'm saying, he almost said, safe, safe, safe, safe. Will you stop it? But you notice what he didn't do? He didn't refute the claim that 150 people didn't get saved. Cause 150 people didn't get saved. We literally, he's saying this thing that we didn't see the whole, we saw the whole clip. And we saw the end, 150 people did not get saved. Matter of fact, nobody, they came up and you offered membership. And then you took an offering. How many of you all think that at the end of this, these two biblical giants sitting there, do y'all think that, Walter, do y'all think that William and Jamal took up an offering while they were there? I don't know, because they tend to do that. They tend to take up an offering at the end of their mess. What I'm saying is, we've got to be safe to a generation that feels threatened by religion. And I mean, just the church has been so unsafe to a generation who really is seeking relationship with God, but the way that we have positioned it, it just doesn't make sense to them. And I'm saying, we've got to be more intentional about fusing culture with the call of Christ. People really got offended because I was celebrating 150 people getting saved. Like people were offended by that. I don't think they were offended by 150 people getting saved. No, they were offended by it. Some of them were offended by it cause they haven't had 150 people all year. And that's what they were offended by. Yes. They were offended by Bishop. Yes. That for you was the justification for the swag serve. Oh, it absolutely was. No, but listen, you had to- Okay, now, this is what I wanna, I wanna tap on this for a second. First of all, 150 people did not get saved. First of all, you have no idea. There's no way you can even make that claim. Even if you presented the gospel, which you didn't, you didn't even do it here. You didn't even do it there. You didn't even do it at your watch night service cause we watched it and you're not even doing it here. But let's say you did. And 150 people say that, yeah, you know what? I placed my faith in the Lord. You still have no idea if all of them got saved. There's no way to know. But I wanna play something that he said afterwards. He says something afterwards and I wanna see if he understands the book. If you can outsole when me, I will listen to you. You got a better strategy than me. I'll listen to you. If you can out evangelize me, let's talk. I wanna hear what you're doing. Okay, fine. He says if you can outsole when me, then let's talk. Well, let's think about this. Because I keep talking about how we have to be relatable. He'll say this in a little bit, relatable and how we have to come across to the generation of people who don't know what the inside of a church looks like, who don't know who their grandparents went to church but they don't go to church. So we've gotta do something to bring them back in. Let me ask you guys a question. I just want your opinion. What's harder? Is it harder to bring people back to the church or to acclimate them to the church? To a church that's already in existence? Or, think about it, what's harder? To bring people to a church that's already in existence and that's 2,000 years worth of experience? Or to bring them into a church that has never existed? Who had it harder? The first church, the first century church, the apostles, who had it harder, them or us today? See, what we'll notice is there were no special services. There was no swagging and surfing and all this way and walking out and all that stuff like that. Nobody did that. Peter and John and Thaddeus, who we never talk about, Bartholomew, we never talk about Bartholomew, but we know what they weren't doing. They weren't in the corner dancing. You know what they did? They gave the gospel. Let's go read Acts. In Acts we see them giving the gospel and what happens at the power of the preaching. Why? Now, this is what I want you guys to understand. Matter of fact, let's do this. How about we do what they don't do at their church? I can pretty much promise you this, that this will not be seen at their church. How do I know? The gospel needs to be featured. Let's do something that they, matter of fact, maybe if one of their members are listening, they'll get something. Notice this, Paul is speaking about the Jews are not believing it like they should, as many as they should, but the Gentiles are and he's concerned about the Gentile. I mean, the Jews coming to Christ. He says, however, they did not all heed the good news. This is where we get the word Ewangalian or evangelist, the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our report? Look at that word. The word is report. I co-aid. This word I co-aid is the word for to hear or report. Why do I say that? Look at verse 17. So faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Now, let me just help you out. This word right here, even though our English has the ING, it's not the verb hearing. This is a noun. How do I know? Let's go back to the screen, put on the screen. So faith comes by, here's, look to the right side. Let me make this a little bit bigger so I want you guys to see this. This word right here for hearing, faith comes by hearing. It's the same word that we see in chapter 16, verse 16, I co-aid. So our A piece is ex, I co-aid, which is the faith out of faith. And then the same word again, faith comes by hearing and hearing, I co-aid. What does that mean? Why does that mean something? Well, you need to understand that you are not saved by a repetitious hearing of constantly hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing. That is not how you're saved. That's not how Paul says faith comes. Faith does not come by you hearing and hearing. I know people say that, but this is why it's important for somebody like him to go to school, to seminary and actually learn the language. By the way, you don't have to go to seminary and learn the languages. I learned the languages in prison, in a sale. And then because of that, my devotion, the Lord actually allowed an actual Greek scholar to come to the compound to be a chaplain and to show me some more about Greek. And so the beauty of this is you get to see what Paul is speaking of. He's not saying faith comes by this repetitious hearing and hearing and hearing, which maybe a lot of folks have been taught that. What he's saying is, faith comes by the akoe, which is the report. How in the world can a person gain faith by the report? Huh? This inanimate object, this noun, how can a noun produce faith? Why wouldn't it be the verb? Well, I didn't write the scriptures, number one, but God put it this way, the noun. Why? Because Paul already said so in Romans one, verse 16. That the gospel is the power implicit in what we hear that Christ did, that he died on the cross for us, for people who don't deserve it. Wretched people, low people, people who can't control themselves. You don't like the guy in life, can't get right. He died for those people who couldn't fix themselves, who know they need a good fixing. And so because they hear this message that Christ did that, and that all they have to do is place their faith and they can be saved, therein lies the power. It's the work of someone hearing that, knowing that based on that report that God goes to work. What does that mean? It means you don't have to do anything fancy. It means you don't have to do anything special. It means you don't have to swag and surf and all this other little goofy stuff. You don't have to go and speak to people with certain pronouns and let them know that they have a safe space. No, if you come to this church, if you come in this body, there is no safe space. You are going to be made to feel uncomfortable. Why? Because you're going to be convicted, but you will appreciate it. It's like the person who decides I want to lose weight. When you walk into that gym and you want to get in shape or lose weight, do you think you're going to a safe space? No, you're going there to develop. When you go to the hospital, do you think you're going to a safe, either they're gonna poke me or prod me or no. You probably get stuck, get some stuff shoved in different parts of you, give you some pills, some medicine, whatever. It's not a safe space, but it's a place to make you ultimately safe. That's what the gospel does. You goofy little Atlanta preachers. No, no, no. You have to think in context. Let's be clear, let's be clear. That the average church is 50 people. Right. So you were saying because of the 150, it justifies the end. And I think that that's where it was thrown off because the overwhelming majority of people would not have seen 150. Right. And so for me as your brother, I was burdened because in that snapshot, they got the swag served, they walked it out, but nowhere in it did they get the message. They didn't get Acts chapter three, where Peter and John said, stand up and walk, which is how we got to walk it out. And they grabbed him by the right hand and they walked out with him, which is how we got to swag and surf. You are a social media influencer. Yeah. Not about food or for tennis shoes. Oh my goodness. But for the direction of the church. If you don't know, now you know. Now you know. Oh my goodness. A month later, would you swag, surf again? Now, by the way, I think Jamal got it right when he called him a social influencer. Social media influence. Yeah, more than the pastor. That's what you are. You are a soul, not a pastor. You serve in that role that function as a pastor, but not a pastor. You are a social me. And that's, that's really his focus. But listen to the question says, if you had to do it all over again, would you do it all over again? 150 people. That's not bad. I know what would happen. Would you do it again? Absolutely. Even with the cost of it? Absolutely. Do you think that it balances itself out? I think that it forces the church to have a conversation. Well, a couple of things. First of all, you did the swag and surfing and other stuff before this alleged 150 people got saved. So you did that. You were gonna do that no matter what. And you know how we know you were gonna do that no matter what? Because you always do stuff like that. You are same with Jamal. Same with a lot of, again, this is the new pastor. This is the new American pastor who was worldly. But lest you think that that was a one-off, no. This is what, this is who William Murphy is. And to be told, same with Jamal Bryan. This is who he is. This is him with his secular singing in the church. God, God, but God, she got a big button to smile. God was trying to tell you that girl is poison. Never trust a big boy. Because first of all, that's your clientele. The sad part is, you got that, and they probably didn't think about that, but you're the one that conjured that up in their head. You're the one that brought that back to their mind. This is who you are. This is who you want to be. You want to be the relevant kind of cool sort of pastor, which is no pastor. We've had the conversation. No, we have not. You and I have had the conversation. The whole Instagram has had the conversation. No, people are throwing insults and they're fighting. I got it, yes. I had to get off TikTok the other day because my folks were fighting with folks who were throwing insults. Other Christians, and it wasn't all the church, but the church really led the attack. Other Christians took a 90-second clip and drew a carnal conclusion for 18 years of ministry. And this goes back to, this is gonna be the whole defense of my dissertation when I go for my doctorate, that we've set this order of worship in proper biblical order. The outer court is where all of the stuff, the interactions happen between worshipper to worshipper. That's where you can walk it out. That's where you can swag surf in the outer court. All of that stuff happens in the place where there is the exchanges from worshipper to worshipper. So in the outer court, in the Old Testament, in the outer court, on the Old Covenant, that's when you can do all that stuff in the outer court. No, you couldn't, they'd kill you. No, you couldn't, William Murphy. This dude is horrible. I mean, it's just, it's amazing. In the outer court, you can do all those things. Then when you get in the inner court, then you can, you know, act like you're, but you don't even do that even. When do you get holy at all, William? But then after that, then you get access to the inner court, which is the place where there's this exchange from worshipper to God. For the generals of the church, for the fathers of the church. Absolutely. Where is the separation and bishop between the secular and the sacred and giving that safe space, but knowing that they are not the same. Right. So how do I separate that? I'm in the world, but I'm not of it. I think was the clash from the pulpit, not from the balcony. Right, for you to walk them through the revelation of the tabernacle, it's excellent. A couple of things. First of all, and let me pull up a passage. Pull up a passage. This is in Romans 14. Because even if a person thought that what he was doing was the right way, when you get pushed back, when there's backlash, when you get pushed back from other Christians, especially from those who don't know you, it's not like people over on the West Coast, the East Coast, the Midwest, the South had a Zoom meaning and said, you know, we need to attack no. Folks were outraged all over. And so you should have, something should have clicked, but Paul makes this statement. He says, therefore do not let, let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil. Or we would say, don't let your good be evil spoken of. So if you thought that what you were doing was the right thing, it can't be. It's clearly not the right thing. Too many believers who love the Lord have the same opinion. That's not right. And unfortunately, too many unbelievers have the same feeling. Now, this whole issue about going to the inter court and our court and so forth, this is a God who does not change. I pray that William Murphy hears this, I pray that Jamal probably won't, but someone that listens to them, I pray that folks hear this. This is not for me. I didn't write this. You can get mad at what's about to be said here, but you better be afraid of what's about to be said here. I've read this passage before and I just wish more people would catch this. I wish more so-called named Christians would catch this. I wish people who are unsaved, who want to be saved, catch this because this is only how you can be saved. When I read this to you, this is the only way that a person can be saved. This is the only way a person can grow. And if you disobey this, if you do this the wrong way, you are going to die. How soon? Don't know. Have no idea when you are going to die or at what means. Don't know. But listen what God says. You all remember the story I've covered before about Nadab and Abihu. You know, the two priests, the sons of Aaron who go before God in an unworthy manner. We're not totally sure what it was. Was it the wrong time? The wrong fire? Whether they were undeserving? Maybe they were drunk. Don't know. Don't know. But the message, the reason for God killing them is clear. How do we know so? Because he tells us. He says, as Moses tells Aaron, this is what the Lord says, by those who come to me, by those who come to me or near me, I will, look what he says. I will be honored before the people. I will be treated as holy. I will be regarded as holy. You cannot come to me in any old fashion. You cannot decide that I want to walk it out in the hour court and then come to you how I want to. No. If you don't come to the Lord, if you don't come to him, regarding him as holy, if this isn't some sort of whim, if this isn't, you know what, I got a few minutes to kill. Let me just go to God and see what's up. If that's what you're doing, you will die and go to hell. There is no if ands, buts about this. This is the God who does not change. The same offer is there in the New Testament. This is a Lord who is holy. We think though, but because he has given us grace. And that's what happens when you commit some sort of evil and you're not killed at that moment or you're not punished as Ecclesiastes says, if you're not punished as that moment, the heart determines that I got more time, more leeway to do more evil, to do more foolish stuff. That's what happens. If you get away with your foolishness, you think because you have not died yet that you won't die. You think though that because you have found out that your foolishness is a means of, Paul says that some people see the gospel in this ministry as a means of gain. Not understand that it is that this gospel that we have, this salvation is great game, but you wanna participate and travel in the foolishness. So you're doing all these things to sell your name by doing things that are controversial. There's a strategy to my foolishness. You agree there's foolishness in it? Yes, foolishness is more than wisdom. So are you foolish? Of course. You follow your father because you think that being like the world is gonna do some for you. Listen, it'll get you a lot of fame, get you a lot of clicks, get you a lot of context, a lot of folks looking after you, but I can promise you this, there are people that are actually, if you wanted to do right for the Lord, if you wanted to serve the Lord, you don't have to worry about how many people come to your church because the goal is not to get the most number. You want more people coming because you want more bodies to Christ, but you don't want to have numbers for the sake of having numbers. What you want is quality over quantity. You want people to have an honest and authentic encounter with Christ. They cannot have an honest, authentic encounter with Christ if you're playing Belle Bib DeVoe or wherever you walk it out. Guys, I don't know who sings that song or the other stuff. If that's what you're doing, if you're bringing frats and sororities to your church to step, if you're offering kids or telling parents it's okay to abort their children, if you're not telling people that homosexuality or rampant heterosexuality is a sin, then you too, friend, will go to hell. Why? Because you've made yourself out to be on the enemy's team to promote an evil, wicked lifestyle just for the sake of saying some people came to your church, but I can promise you, and to anyone else that will listen, God will. Remember, God is holy. He is, he is slow in his deliberation, but he is final. And if you are not his, I can promise you this one thing. I can promise you, you are going to regret it. There are three places, three places, and we'll just go kind of in chronological order in severity, there are three places where there is a lot of regret. One, the doctor's office, the hospital, you go there and you regret because you didn't eat right, you didn't exercise, you did this, you regret it. You regret the fact that you may have maybe type two diabetes, you regret that your blood pressure's high, you regret all these different things, these complications because of what you have done. Another place that there's regrets are in prison. I know this is the worst fact, you go there and you regret because your past actions, things that you could have done or prevented, but because you wanted to have fun and do your own thing, now you're in prison, now you're in the cell, being stripped surgeon, who knows what else is happening, and there is regret. You're away from your family, but you in many cases get a chance to come home. But the last place where there is certainly regret, and this is the regret where there is no changing, that is in the grave. You will die in your sins and regret the fact that you missed out on the opportunity, literally, the opportunity of a lifetime. If your pastor is any way, shape or fashion, worldly, if your pastor is okay with the world being infused with the church, reject him, leave. You probably don't even need to give him the courtesy of leaving, but I would say go and approach him and ask him, but if your church wants to be as worldly as it comes, if your church wants to be a safe space for the world, well then you need to leave, because if your church is a safe space for the world, it's not a safe space for the Christian. Amen.