 to think that here on a given Thursday, American Issues, American Issues, take two. Is Trump's star ascending or waning? We should be able to tell this year with my co-host, Tim Appagella, special guest, Colleen Anabusa, applause, okay, and Stephanie Stolldahlton. Thank you all for showing up this morning. Let's talk about the subject. Let me start with you, Tim. The question of the day is his star ascending or waning, and please give your analysis. My answer, good morning, Jay. My answer is yet to be determined. The primaries were a 50-50 split, almost. You had him lose on someone that was just a trainwreck of a candidate, Madison Cothorn, from North Carolina, and Donald Trump begged and pleaded to give this guy a second chance. Well, he was a trainwreck, if you saw any of the videos that were posted. Oh, it was a mess. So he lost, but he didn't lose by much. He only lost by maybe 1,300 votes. It should have been that close. So in some ways, Donald Trump's influence was present in that loss for Cothorn. But the big one of the day was, of course, Donald Trump's animosity towards Brian Kemp, governor of Georgia. And David Perdue, his anointed candidate, lost badly. And the bottom line is that's a major blow to Donald Trump and his, if you will, kingmaker abilities. And that was a cannonball across his bow. And Brad Ruffinsberger, secretary of state, he also won in that primary. So here's two major candidates that Donald Trump loathed, and yet they made it through. So I think that's kind of an indication. It's not a crack in the globe, so to speak. But the real test, I think, is going to come here in June. You're going to see Donald Trump say all sorts of things in the media about the select committee's hearings. And we'll see if that sticks or not. I think it's a real test about his influence or the waning of his influence. Wow. Fabulous answer. Colleen, how much of what Tim said you agree with? Well, I agree with the fact that we don't really know yet. But one of the things that I would add to what Tim said is, how many of us thought we'd be having even this topic at this point? How many of us thought that Donald Trump would be a footnote by now? But instead, he's still a factor. And in some places, a major factor when you're talking about this election cycle. And I think that that's really, like you said, is it ascending or waning? It's probably, we can't tell whether it's one of those two adjectives. But it should be more a matter of, aren't we all surprised, especially those of us in Hawaii, and wondering, why are we even discussing this? Because he's there, and he's got an impact, whether it's going to be a great impact or not as great as we thought. The point is, he has an impact enough for us to have this discussion. Yeah. You know, when Tim and I were discussing this show yesterday, wasn't there two ago, we were wondering whether we should use Trump's name at all. Some kind of coded name, because we don't want to give him any publicity whatsoever. So Stephanie, that takes me to you. You know, it's possible that Elon Musk is going, I mean, I don't think this is as big a chance as it was, but Elon Musk is going to buy Twitter. And he has said if he buys Twitter, Trump is back on. Okay. How does that change the calculus? For us. Thank you for the question. And Jay, your point about a remedy for getting him out of our lives, I think we're way past that point. This man is established, you know, as a star literally from his TV stand, like it or not. And now he's gone on through the role of president. Unfortunately, he did make that stop to be a star in that category. But what we have here is someone that now has promoted people who had no power previously to be as effective as they are now in making a difference for our country's policy and our country's lawmaking. So what's happened is those people have had the opportunity to rise and be most influential, I eat the gun control, abortion, all of these issues, you know, have now been moved into the center stage and are getting promoted by people who before had very less voice. So that's what's happened because Trump had to draw on those people and strengthen their power status and voice in order for himself to stay elected and empower. So what he's done is unleashed, you know, opened the Pandora's box, right, for these people. And the question is whether this democracy is going to thrive with a more empowered, what appears to maybe be a minority for the majority and just to see if we're going to go into a situation where the majority, as we know and as our tradition has held, will still have as much voice as they've always had. Things are not looking really good now. And it doesn't matter whether Trump's days goes, leaves the planet, what have you. He's already and he's already infected everything. Oh, I'm feeling better every minute, Stephanie. Here we go. Those remarks. Tim, you know, you said before, it's hard to tell, you know, as we get closer to the election. And as we see him, you know, react to the select committee, we'll get a better handle. But let me let me. So there's two choices. One is his star is rising and the other is it's waning. Let's assume just for a moment that his star is rising. Let's assume that he gets back on Twitter. Let's assume that, you know, he makes a big stink about this elect committee is sort of a witch hunt and people believe him. Let's assume that his people, you know, or people who were acolytes in some way, win at least some of them in November. How does that change the picture for 2024? And let's assume also that Trump wins as president. Mr. T, Mr. T, in president in 2024, how does that change the country? You have two hours to frame your answer. You muted. Sorry, I'll need three hours on that, Jay. The bottom line is how to affect our country. Come on, we've talked about this during Trump week for four years. It will be the beginning of the end of our democracy as we know it. It'll be the beginning of end for fair and free elections as we know it. It'll be the beginning of end of the rule of law. The list goes on and forever our democracy will be slowly converting to an autocracy. And I don't think it'll take long this time. I think he knows the ropes now. He knows that what the mistakes he made in his first term and he won't waste time in the second term. So to answer your question, not good, but, you know, MAGA is more than Donald Trump now. MAGA is the GOP party's mantra. And the bottom line is they don't need Donald Trump to continue MAGA. You know, about two weeks ago, we had a show with Governor John Wahey, and he said something very profound, and it was Donald Trump has given permission for people to act badly, to say very inappropriate comments when they're at the microphone, and worse yet, develop policies that are very destructive for the American people. And that permission is the greatest legacy that Donald Trump has left, whether or not his star rises or not. And it's that permission we need to put back into Pandora's box. Yeah, true. Oh, Colleen, I saved a very hard one for you. I'm sorry. In time, you'll learn to forgive me for this question. Suppose we find that Trump's power is waning. What happened? What happens in November? What happens in 2024? This is really a black box question. It's almost impossible to answer this, but I know you can. Colleen is quite capable. She's a practicing lawyer. She's on the hardboard, and she's with the Cincinnati Bell, which runs Hawaii and Telcom. So with all of that experience, what's your answer? If it's waning, we're assuming it's going to wane. Yes. Well, I would like to say, first of all, we should all hope that it's waning, and it's not even being a status quo, and definitely not ascending. However, I'm not sure that we can make that assumption, because what we're missing in this whole thing, this black box that you talk about, Jay, is the people. And who are the people? And I know for many of us in Hawaii, especially we have to get past the point that nobody in their right mind could possibly be for Donald Trump. That's how many of us feel. But look at how many votes he even got here on his second effort. He did extremely well, considering what you would have thought. So what does it tell us? It tells us that Donald Trump isn't the focus as much as it's the people who he's appealing to. That's who we should be trying to analyze. What is it that Donald Trump is saying that the people out there who support him, even if it's 30 something percent of the vote, or even if whatever it may be, what is it that he's saying that people want to hear? I think it's not so much what people want to hear, but people are afraid that they are here, which is this word called fear. And what Donald Trump gives them is this says that somehow they're now empowered again. They're empowered by this person who's the president of the United States, and he's going to give them that ability. I think in a way we're so used to the concept of people of color, but it's like when you think about the population by the year 2045 being 51% or more than majority of the people will be people of color. I think it frightens a lot of people. And let me talk about Hawaii. I'm talking about the rest of this country. So what is it that he represents? He represents to some this ability to cling to that which they thought was made America the greatest country. That's what his mantra is. I taught a course in 2016, the public side department of the University of Hawaii. And I said, what he's saying that people like to hear is America is the best country in the world. And if you don't like it, leave. And there's a lot of people who think, wow, now that's simple, concise, and to the point and expresses how I feel, not me, but you know how they feel. And this is what really is the essence of Trump. He has an ability, which I don't think many of us give him credit for, to go to, as you would say in Hawaii, the out of the gut and say, okay, what is it that people want? What do you want? People want, no matter how we deny it, how we all want equality, how we all believe that there shouldn't be discrimination and so forth. Everybody can be generous if you are sound and safe in yourself. The problem is people don't feel that way anymore. People don't feel safe. They want to be in the position of dominance or power. That's what this black box is. It's the people. Donald Trump wouldn't exist, but for the people who actually permit him to exist. So we got to understand what is it that's fueling them? What is it that's making them feel like they need a Donald Trump to empower them to, for them to rally behind, for them to wear those hats, you know, about America and what it is, and what is it? And I think that's what we all have to understand. Donald Trump is just the symbol. It's a symbol of a very sad time in my opinion. And it's a symbol of how things may change, especially if he picks up steam in this upcoming election. And by that, I mean, the fact that he stays relevant this long is frightening enough. I get it. The black box is really a black box of national mental illness. That's what the black box is. So, Stephanie, we still have, let me count the months. We have June, July, August, September, October, you know, maybe. There are a lot of things that are going to happen before this dispositive, arguably dispositive election in November. And these things are not, you know, they're not, they're not static. They're dynamic. And for that, Trump's possibilities are dynamic too. Anything could happen. Anything could happen. Good or bad could happen. God knows how many shootings we're going to have, right? Just for one example. So, what do you think the elements of that dynamic are? What could happen to make him do better or worse between now and November? Well, I think that I must compliment Colleen Honabusa's point and say how well she spoke to it. And I believe it's something we haven't come to accept about Americans. And I believe that it means that there actually is a huge group that has been disenfranchised, that has always been disenfranchised. And they haven't had their hands or their seats at the table or anything like that. They haven't had access for a new number of reasons. And the number of reasons may have to do with certainly the attention to Black and Brown and all kinds of people who are recognized and now publicly acclaimed as disenfranchised trying to get into the game and the conversation and the power game. But this other group is maybe the best way to describe it is to say if you only focus on minority and the diversity of America being served like in education. So those people being so served by the systems and the high need kids. And the point is that if you go and actually look at the high need data, the actual numbers of these people, there are more white people that are high need and disenfranchised and deprived and disadvantaged than there are others. They are the largest group. And that we have not really done much about that to address it and publicize it and make people understand how big is the challenge to bring all American people into the game and into getting educated to the level that they need for democracy and getting a chance to be at the table and be powerful. So I think in the meantime, as we struggle through this, it's hard and it may look like some horses are ahead of other horses that shouldn't be and we're going in. But ultimately, what are we going to do? We want everybody enfranchised. We want everybody in the panel. That's easier to say than make it happen. Tim, what does the name Jamie Harrison mean for you? The head of the DNC. Now, what is the DNC doing on this issue? I mean, we have a dynamic experience going on. And we know, for example, your comment before the show began about the proud boys in Florida, the GOP is moving every day. Every day in these legislators, you know, Cynthia Sinclair can talk about that. All this stuff is happening. And they're not necessarily seeking press about it. They're playing the long game under the cover and under the wraps. They're playing the long game and they've been doing it for decades. And now, you know, the fruit of their patience is paying off. You know, you look at the dramatic dramatic, not dramatic, the dramatic shift from Hispanic votes from the Democratic Party to the Republicans, especially in Florida. And what does that attribute it to the GOP's long game of convincing voters that the Democratic Party is nothing but a bunch of socialists. Well, guess what? Most of those voters in Florida come from socialistic countries, Venezuela, Cuba, you name it, half of South America was socialist, and they don't want that anymore. Yet the successful targeted marketing has convinced them that the Democratic Party is nothing but socialists. So that's why you're seeing a huge shift in demographics votes to now go towards GOP. They're voting against their interests, but they're doing it. You look at the white fear factor, the white replacement. Again, a masterful stroke on the GOP's part to convince grievance, white, you know, low income earning Americans that Donald Trump is their savior and not the Democratic Party. That because Democratic Party is a bunch of votes and they're going to replace your white power. And again, a subtle message that has been coming, not so subtle, but very, very powerful. You're seeing not policies being voted on, but grievances and social wedge issues. Okay, Colleen, I think I'm ready to soak my head now. Now, now Hawaii, everybody says Hawaii is a microcosm, right? And indeed, you know, I mean, education itself will tell you that that one third of the electorate of Hawaii are Trumpers. Incredible. I would never have expected that because he's racist. He's a white supremacist. And yet one third of the people in Hawaii believe in him. I don't know what the disconnect is, but there you have it. What can we learn? You referred to it earlier. What can we learn from the Hawaii experience? The Hawaii, you know, the dominance of the Democratic Party, and historically, you know, the acceptance of a diversity of races and cultures from way back when. What can we learn from Hawaii that could be useful to have Jamie Harris in fashion an appropriate strategy on the national scale? You know, whenever I have a question like that, that goes back. I was, I don't even remember the incident, but remember when John F. Kennedy came to Hawaii, and I think he spoke to a conference of mayors. That was in 1960 something. I'm sorry, I can't remember any of that. I'm happy to do it. None of us can remember that, right? But what he's quoted and saying is Hawaii, something like Hawaii is what the rest of this nation should become. And it was, I think, the statement about the diversity and the uniqueness of Hawaii. So what is it that as we look at the statistics, what is it that's changing? And you know, it could be very similar to what Tim was talking about with how the Hispanic votes have changed in Florida. I think it's more than just the fact that they play to the Hispanic vote. I think it is as we have in America as the next generations come up, second and third generations, they tend to be successful business people. They tend to be more educated. You know, I mean, you know, for the longest time, how many people said, like my grandmothers used to say, well, you're a girl child, so you should become a DOE teacher. They didn't know DOE, but you should be a teacher, because that's what girl child do, and you'll get benefits, and you'll do, I mean, these are the things that are ingrained to us when we are young. So what, how does that all translate to what's going on now? When the generations change and the generations quote, make it, so to speak, then it becomes a totally new set of values, right? So the haves, the have nots become the haves. And then we have that whole, and then you have this whole kind of cyclical effect. So what Hawaii could lead the rest of the nation in is if we can figure out how you can do this transition, but still maintain that great social fiber, and I don't mean it as socialism, but I mean that sense of equality, the sense of how it should be fundamentally fair and just, and we could figure out how with ascension into the next level, so to speak, of success, you can still remain like that, still not forget the roots. That's where we could lead. But I'm afraid that we may be following like the rest of the nation, that we are doing exactly what everyone else is doing, that we're going to lose one or two generations. Is there about people who have made it, and then what do they do? Do you make it and say, well, I made it, so you go ahead and do it? That's what's unfortunately, I think, coming about. Why is it, for example, we couldn't do a more affirmative immigration law? Is it because we don't believe in immigration, or is it because those who may have come over now feel, and we did it? You go and do it. It's the bootstrap. You know, you got to take yourself and bring yourself up. Is that the American dream? You work hard, and then you should be able to succeed, so why you don't need handouts? I mean, that's what this whole discussion is going to come down to, who we are, and what are the fundamental values that we bring to this discussion? I think about that all the time, because I believe that the young people that I meet and talk to, the people I see on the tube and read about and hear about, they are different. They're not the Trumpers. Some of them are stupid. I'm sorry they are Trumpers. But most of them that I see offer the prospect of a next generation, Stephanie, that will be better. And part of that is how we educate them. Part of that is how they coalesce. Part of that is Jamie Harrison. If they could come together, we would have a better time. But my question to you, all that considers, Stephanie, is do we have the time to let them ripen, to let them take charge, to let them express themselves, to let them take power? The Proud Boys are operating right now today. The next generation of these kids would be great. But do we have the time? Good question, because we don't have the time. And the question I'd like to add is, do we have the urge to do it? And otherwise, the grit, the urge, the willingness to stand up and get this on the agenda, the national agenda. And I think that Hawaii has not done that numerous times. And Hawaii has led the nation on numerous advances that the country has sought and has been a star for 10 minutes. And then the next thing, someone else takes it over. I mean, the best example is, of course, Medicare. I mean, the medical plan of Hawaii and how Hawaii has considered the medical needs of its citizens forever. Yeah, think of Roe v. Wade before Roe v. Wade. Hawaii was way out there. Exactly. Okay. But it gets wiped off, it gets wiped out of the conversation. As soon as Hawaii was top notch and getting all this good publicity, then here comes Massachusetts. Oh, well, we've got this thing. And then they're always referred to as the model and the leader. And I've seen this in a couple of other categories, too, not prepared to speak to all of those. But I've always been amazed that we're not acknowledged as the model we as in the state of Hawaii is not acknowledged as that leadership model. And for serious legislative initiatives and all these these ways that we believe and live out here has not gotten enough, it's gotten credit, but I don't think it's gotten enough credit and doesn't get enough attention at all. I mean, especially being majority minority forever and who gets the big hurrah, California, once they go over the 1% mark. So anyway, I agree. I think that we could grab on to it if leadership or those opportunities will like to take away can promote the state of Hawaii for the outstanding citizen of the country and the nation that I think it is and doesn't get credit for. Colleen, we're just about out of time and I want to offer everybody the opportunity to make closing statements, whatever is on your mind as a result of this discussion or not. And I would ask you first, you know, our topic has been is Trump's star ascending or waning? We should be able to tell this this year, but maybe not. What are your thoughts? What would you like to leave with our viewing audience about this topic? I think what I'd like to leave everyone with is this. We always talk about the next generation. We always talk about where we're going to be, what's going to happen to this country. What we have to spend more time with is asking the next generation. What is it that he Trump has that would lead you to want to follow? Or what is it about him that you don't want to follow? What is it about anybody that you feel is there that's exemplary and something that you believe in? I think our problem is we all talk about the next generation, but we don't spend any time listening to them or talking to them. That's what we've got to do. Amen to that. Stephanie, you next. Oh, my goodness. Well, I agree with that. And I think, you know, we have to acknowledge that there is value in Trump and Trumpism and MAGA. And what is it that we need to know better, those of us who are not not enthused by it? We need to understand it better so that we can be in better positions to influence others if one, you know, to move on to other things. But anyway, so that that's one of the points I wanted to make because he's not, this is not going away. It's not, people are not coming to their senses. In fact, there's so much more going on than that. So let's get a handle on this. Find out what it is. And as you all have discussed, you know, get active about this party and the nation needs to get active about it and acknowledge it for what it is. It's here and we've got to deal with that. Tim, your thoughts, but let me, let me offer this to cover if you would, is we're not, we're not only, you know, in the four corners of the United States. We are the city on the hill or at least we used to be. And we have a big effect on the world and world history going forward, especially in Europe and Ukraine, but also in Asia. So how does this all play out? The world is watching, Tim. What are your thoughts? Well, first off, I apologize, there's a lot of construction noise that just started up. So I'm going to try to keep this short. The world is watching. And I think what the world has watched is that Donald Trump, we've mentioned this in previous shows, has really become quite a powerful cult figure. And by a cult figure, I mean, it's, he's taken the grievances and he's hypnotized people in such a way that regardless of his Boris behavior or horrible words, they like him, they follow him without question, total loyalty. And I think the world is watching to see if we fall back into that trap again. And, you know, it's important to take a powerful, dangerous cult figure and render that individual into an insignificant fad. That's it. Okay, I feel a little better. I probably will not stoke my head today. But thank you very much, my co-host, Tim Apichella, our special guest, Koleen Hanabusa, and our regular contributors, Stephanie Stulldolton, for a great and important discussion. Aloha. Mahalo.