 meeting to order. Welcome guests. Do we have any amendments to the agenda? No, not you have the revised revised revised agenda. Thank you for sending me stride. I don't know why I keep calling that anyway. With that gentlemen, you're on. Okay. We thought it'd be good to come in and sort of let you know what we're thinking and what would what we're imagining for the future if we came in about a year ago, maybe a little bit more than a year ago. We're still excited. There's a challenge every day and that keeps us invigorated. A couple of things I wanted to sort of start with before I forget. There's a fellow named Phoenix from Worcester who started the coffee ride share program. The Hitching Post. Yes. And so he met with Liza and myself and us about could we have a Hitching Post there. So they planted a Hitching Post and it's connected to the whole sort of little web that's going on and they're now connected to Northfield and the co-op and Worcester and Birch Grove and a couple of other places in here. And so they're passionate about it and seem good to support. So but one of the things that I learned and I can send you the information that I don't have right with me for something you want to do is that every town it costs 750 bucks to get hitched up with the Hitching Post and put the post in and all that kind of jazz. That's what Phoenix and his people is that every each town can apply for a $500 grant to cover the cost of these things and as near as I can tell nobody's been denied. So if you're a town that has four Hitching Posts, well you got to divide the 500 bucks up. You if it's something that you want to support you might want to apply for that grant. And then we would just pass it on to that if it was something you wanted to do. So just something to think about. So just to be clear you guys have agreed to pay the $750? Yeah I think Eliza's gonna pay for it. Randy and Eliza. But we said we'd get it covered one way or another. Also anybody has any objections? I don't know why we wouldn't apply for the 500 bucks. Yeah. Yeah I mean they're hard working. They're doing a good thing. I hope they understand how it works but I'll be interested to see what happens. My understanding of how it works is they stop with the coins so I think that was a good thing. Is you just go stand out there or you put a flag whichever way you want to go towards the water barrier towards Montpelier out here. And if somebody wants to give you a ride they meet you by the end of the porch and you hop in and you go and you can buy them a coffee or whatever you want to do. It's basically carpooling. You know one step up for hitchhiking. Yeah yeah hitchhiking with a cover. Yeah. So I think it's a good thing and the more we can eliminate people just driving single single vehicles the better it is. Sure. So there's that. First of all we already got a parking problem so if a lot of people start leaving their cars there and hitching posts. Oh no that's not going to be a good idea. That's the opposite of what we wanted to have. Right well that's what I'm concerned about. Yeah no we have that concern too and when we first purchased the property I think there were some people that were doing that. It doesn't seem to be the case now you know sort of parking there and carpooling to somewhere. But we sort of started paying better attention to it and we didn't do anything on us or actually talk to anybody about the tenants to say hey let's you know we got to look out for it's your parking space to park in it so you know you might want to deal with that. So we have a bout believe it or not. We have about a hundred parking spaces which is well more than the ordinance calls for but it's you know it's a popular place. But you don't want to be parking right too. No I don't want to be parking right too. A lot of those are probably bikers that are going off the bike because I know on Sunday they park here. What the bikers? Bicycolors? Yeah that's great. We put out some bike racks just to invite them so that they know that they want to have them stop there and just they can they're right out front. So yeah so can you send us the information someone Yes Paul will remind me to send you the information. Okay go ahead. So then I thought we just have a quick little slideshow a little history and some rough ideas for plans that we want to do going forward is we'd like to get another anchor tenant type along the lines of a red hen and we're working with some people who want to come there are literal from farm to retail and wholesaler maker which I which I think would be great in the livable jobs sustainable regenerative agricultural so we're looking at building a building that would be able to house them we stopped to quite finished you know the finals of the deal but we've been talking for about six months so we're hopeful that we'll be able to come about so we've got some site plans that we want to do a building octagonal type building in the back corner of the beyond where mud is sort of it's sort of making the green space become a campus over time so that it's a hub that always stays a green hub and expounding on that and another short-term hair brained idea we'll see if that we can actually make it come off is you know in Blittersdorf David Blittersdorf bought those train cars and put them in Barry we thought well you know we back right up to the train tracks it would be great to have a train station here so like the leap from here to a train station is somewhat substantial but in the short term the leap to find somebody that maybe wanted to operate a little sort of diner pub in a whole rail car might not be that hard to get to and if we could find the right person we could pick a rail car off the tracks and send it right down on the north end of the property and the gas station property and make you know bring some life to that so we've got a little slide to show what do you call the whole complex now that you own the gas station can't meet you call the whole thing can't yeah I know Susan was the one who assisted on that name yeah we just call it can't meet we just think that all the values of can't meet are good and the values as we understand them from the CCC camp and growing communities that's really what we want to do we really want to try and be good citizens good corporate citizens as we grow along so this slide is shows the property that we presently on which is can't meet the White House and the what we call the White House the ranch house and so it's a gas station yeah across the way we and this slide shows some of the changes that we've made in the last year to the red so there's that whole yeah behind the White House and that's yes that's like cliff and you can't do anything with it the you mean what's the property on the green which I'm assuming is treeline yeah or is that that's yeah that's it starts to slope off there on the part of its openness you don't hear slopes yeah and over over towards the Vietnamese villages to be down below there yeah and then coming this other way fall yeah right there it's start the slopes down but you don't know that we don't own that so we will we want to put a building on the corner of the horseshoe right there so in this last year Redhand grew we put an addition on the back to basically remove their offices and their break room in order to allow their kitchen which was just sort of all intertwined into the bakery we originally designed to build the bakery the cafe kitchen was sort of obstructing the bakery and now all of the break room and all that is a kitchen and dishwashing area and so they function a lot more efficiently but they just reconfigured it themselves yeah yeah yeah we have to take it apart in order to put it back together but we've done that in conjunction with Randy and and Liza so you want to skip that oh and we also built the little the oven the turtle oven sort of red festival which is right on the little you rebuild the house that's back there the jack used to live in it we haven't built rebuilt oh they are yes when I was there on Sunday look like it had been rebuilt and I said you boy I've never looked at that really yeah it was you can jump in whenever you want my yeah we just put some insulation and painting you know made it so yes we could actually have meetings and stuff in there you can actually but that guy he's not doing his stuff out of there no no no part of it is there's two little office rooms in there now part of it is storage for red hen and part of it we have room for a table and you know bunch of stuff it's not that neat but when we first looked at the property Alan and Mike and I opened the door and we didn't go very far and then I mean it was you know top it was a band rehearsal space with all the trash so we just made it so that we can turn the heat on and there and not be heating you know so yeah that's what that is Paul you can go ahead this is just sort of a 3d kind of modeling that we do for ourselves and to sort of look at the same thing as 2d are you turning the White House into an art museum not a museum we're doing a sort of a little pop-up right now with to see what happens and have made it available to a bunch of local artists to sell their put their wares in there and sell it now and the sort of run up to the holidays and see if they can make a little bit of money and putting more and more stuff on the lawn yeah trying to make that a little more attractive it just seems so desolate and barren we're trying to bring some wife and energy to it so put the hug sign a few other things to make it interesting and well yeah we're thinking we're gonna paint Iran out of gas on it anyway so we're wanting to make it available to artists and we'll take like a 20% percentage from them and if they can make a goal of it great because I think to have more art in the community would be would be would be good would be you know more vital yeah and also it's it's it's more vital and more contributive to the social fabric then I'm just having somebody live there not that having somebody live there is a bad idea it's a good idea but we're trying to bring more energy so yeah the answer to your question is yeah we're doing a couple month experiment we'll see what happens yeah we really want to tie our campus in to include the White House you know good well yeah the real reason yeah I wanted these are streetscape streetscape that you're very familiar with this is whoops I think we showed you this before but this we did a rough streetscape along the route to corridor of a sidewalk our plant things parallel parking all that kind of jazz and just an update I worked with Julie Beth Heinz for years and she's our consultant because she's really good at what she does and she's had some conversations with the folks at AOT and they're pretty keen to see this type of plan progress and you know go to the next step you guys can apply for a larger planning grant but the understanding I have from Julie Beth is that they can see see you getting another grant and did you get the grant this year with the with the planning yeah right so I know the she was talking to the president head of AOT who plans on staying there for the next you know decade if at all possible and he's on board with these things looks forward to the next application for getting real planning and design money and seeing and these are his his numbers being able to construct a streetscape down through there in 2026 which would mean you know 2020 2020 122 would be planning and you know the town all of that kind of jazz I believe they have about two million bucks that they could devote to this so depending on what the town would want to have there'd be a town match that would be need to be have that I think they're generally about 10% and we would of course be interested in participating in some way to make it happen because I think it will make your village you know more of a village I'll keep digressing for a second one of one of the things that I have thought about and this is just my opinion so you can take it for whatever it's worth is you know being part of a tip-tip district would be good for you guys because then you could keep the tax revenue from any property taxes inside that tip district which would be where you could get your match for infrastructure and those kinds of things and it might be worth you know looking at what the boundaries of your tip district might be it might want to include Welch and those properties up there as well but you know the all is it as a pilot with the archives and payment in lieu of taxes and state police and those things do they make any contribution at all so it's a it's a non-payment in lieu of taxes it's like everywhere else they go they pay a small percentage of what they would pay if they were paying the real taxes right yeah okay just wondering what's a tip district I forget all my initial yeah and what it does is it allows you to keep a percentage of the education tax property tax that would otherwise go to the state that you then can reinvest in the town on infrastructure projects your match for a sidewalk or whatever it would be and then other buildings to get built within that district fall in in that same place so anything that we would propose to do would become aside from I think hopefully being good for the town would also be would generate revenue for you on the tax side and then another thought is as you look at your zoning which is this year what's that the rewrite as a zoning is yeah yeah we're going to start talking with the planning commission and saying some things that we think but again this is just me you know sort of looking at it with my own planning planning mind on this I think it might be a good idea to extend the this district up to the intersection of the center road so that the standards that are in the village district go all the way up to there because I can see at some point in the future somebody wanting to do it develop some kind of a building at the T and you might want as much no there's gonna be much of a building well you know people say things are hard to develop but then you go and I know of houses of my player that are five stories on one side and a story and a half on the other you know in San Francisco you know all that kind of jazz I'm just looking ahead thinking that when people get off the interstate your invitation to the town might want to be a piece of architecture that's more than just a market right yeah or a glorified gas or electric station whatever they're going to be convenience store that's only one story that's that's what I'm thinking about when I make those kind of thoughts and then we have a few other things that we want to talk to planning commission about I think some changes that we might want to see that would be helpful for us and I think anybody in the district quite frankly but to whether you want to use form-based zoning or something else it doesn't just say you can go up to this height you know all the way across the whole entire district but a way to look at things in modulation but it would be helpful to be able to go another 10 feet beyond 35 which is pretty much sort of a residential standard that building that we need in the business district yeah yeah in wherever you would in any of these places I think what we want to do is not see building that just conform to that there's a combination of how you view massing against other massing and and maybe you want to have some standards that have to do with flat roofs or not flat roofs and you know all of that kind of all of those kinds of things for the planning commission to think about yeah those when people drive through metal sex it's something of beauty rather than interesting interesting and you know so people want to move into town business is one of you know business there you know people want to hang out yeah and one of the things when I was on the board and in Watesfield we looked at what the zoning was that we had and then we looked at the old village and we said well we can't even build that village today because it doesn't meet any of the zoning standards it's too close to the road and all that stuff but that's the part that everybody says they like the best so it caused us to rethink how we wrote our ordinance so that some village could be built back just like some of your your houses are really close to the road and that's not the worst thing on the side where the gas station used to be does it go all the way to the interstage no you want to blow that up a little bit it's stops right here just just before all this is just about what about right 20 feet beyond the entrance to go down to the house up alongside the road it's not wildly valuable as far as you know egress to the road or anything like that's okay so do you want to skip ahead to there we go so that'd be where we'd want to do a building back in there you want to skip them next one Paul and also the train car oh yeah side of the road right on the other you want to go back backwards and then down here in the little straight right there be you know see it's whether we can pull that off I don't know but you know putting a little train car down there so that'll be the new stock yeah one thing we've heard consistently is can something be open after six I think that's important you know that we do have those kinds of things for people can get together you know things way to add like say a restaurant or pub without disrupting anybody else's business so that's sort of a rough rendering for what we're thinking might be able to go in the back there would be why the tears why what why do you have a tiered like that so that steps in a little bit and doesn't seem to shear so that we can have sort of your retail red hen kind of level see you know see things being made and whatnot then some offices or something like that a meeting place where you know we want to continue sort of can't meet talks and have people talk about interesting things does that right now the way you show it assume the increase in elevation variance that you were talking about yes it does yeah we in order to get that we would need that change in the zone yes and then the third floor could either be residents or a restaurant something like that and then there's the pub idea so these are things that we're thinking about and instead of you know I've been on your side long enough to know you know resting our cards is not really what we want to do is not how we want to do businesses we want to sort of have a conversation about what it is that we see in ways that we think we can bring new life to the end and how we can do this together the most the most direct thing in the short term is getting involved in the rewriting so we'll go to the planning commission but yeah your meeting was first yeah and I mean just just the event you know we get we had a little conversation about parking when you had the when you had the breakfast and you know we have we have concerns about that we want to work with you guys to help resolve that so you continue to have community events there it's great for that great for everybody yeah and we don't want to have too many you know we don't want to be a big venue of things but we want to do things that are sort of exclamation points like that yeah and yeah I think on the one hand big pain in the butt you know traffic you know those cars parked everywhere safe life safety is the thing that's most important I think that all of us that's the thing that is our biggest concern but that was traffic coming in is extreme also but it works I mean the interesting thing is that people were coming down off the interstate stopping and letting pedestrians cross the street because there was enough action going on that it slowed the traffic down so yeah we're not saying that we should slow the traffic down to 15 miles an hour every day all day long but that's a that's I think the value of having a real proper streetscape and and right we're in traffic traffic plan so that's that's what we're looking for there I think be really good if you could come up and do that on the easter tail right Bill slide on our back road anything you want to add Mike there's a lot of people flying down a lot of our I think we should let them know about the other property oh yes oh yeah we have entered into a purchase and sales with the accounts sorry go the account house blue house to the flowers yeah that one there and it's a defensive move on our part we don't really want to spend the money and buy it quite frankly but we don't want to see you like a dollar store whatever you know we have no plans for it right are they selling it yes we have no plans for other than to make sure that it kind of doesn't go into some sort of weird thing that disrupts the rest of the flow of the town stuff yeah because your zoning right now is not a good enough defense so a dollar general could buy it and go in there under yes yes yeah and we would rather not see that so how many acres are in the account property five-and-a-half so that would stay a residence in the short term it's a I think what makes sense there is what it once was which it was a store on the first floor and an apartment on the second floor and that apartment is still there you know and that kids the the heirs each of them so you know we've spent some time with them in what they went away and then they came back and each one of them came and they stayed there with their future spouses in the apartment upstairs is sort of a nice story and one of the things that we would want to do and that we've taught that we talked with them about is wanting to you know give a good nod to their ownership of the property and how long they've been there 50 years they I mean they grew up there yeah yeah so we'd like to even talk about it because you know nobody wants to be foolish and all that kind of stuff but other people were so hopefully we'll put the whole finish putting the whole deal together by the first of the year shortly after the first of the year then we'll figure out what to do but I could see that being what it once was you know when the village was vibrant you know a long time ago and maybe it's a little general store or some kind of store you know on the first floor and what's that well now you need a little store where you can go and pick up odds and ends yeah now the roots is yeah and they're they're perfect that you they're they're great and it's great to have that youthful farm hard working you know days just not long enough energy they want to do this what's that they want to stay and do this kind of stuff the roots the roots people no no I'm not talking about the roots people I'm talking about I thought you were talking about the little account no no no no no I'm talking about the roots people oh yeah right yeah they're awesome they're all rubbed up I can do that yeah yeah and I just hope I just hope there's enough business in the winter time makes me a little nervous hope they hope it'll work for them you know they seem to be pretty smart and attentive to you know what's going on around them you know successful restaurant tours and retailers hear what people don't say you know out loud and figure out how to meet that need and they seem they seem to be aware you know so I'm hopeful we we're all better off having another interesting thing about this property is it backs up to a plot owned by Green Mountain Power so they have access to going in and do repairs on the dam yeah on that side of the river so you know I can see potential for some sort of bike path or walking pathway from Church Street all the way over to you know red hand and kind of way that that curve there for a lot of bicycles and pedestrians one of the problems you had the last time you talked to us yeah right exactly right but yeah I mean a river walk could happen with enough other landowners are interested and happy with that you know you can come right to there and and the streetscape will solve you know the pinch points of your curves and that kind of stuff well guys we we appreciate the the update and you know I think we've been pretty supportive so far and supportive if we can be and I anticipate that'll continue me we're excited about this yeah my question to you is you don't even live in middle sex so what made you so excited about this property Ross you know I designed and I had a lot of breakfast there I designed and built the bakery for Randy and Liza and for the Wexler's when that happened and I could see you know that people were just driving through and not seeing how how great this place could be and you know we get to be a time in our lives when you know it'd be nice if there was another you know 70 years in the hourglass but I don't think there are so it'd be nice it's nice to do this kind of passion project that's it you know that's great well we appreciate your passion thank you we're glad to be thank you for your services thank you okay highway department my way department oh we're excited now oh good that would be good so we're looking at so we're looking at the public works and if you go to yeah winter main with starts with winter maintenance but I'm just going to bring you down to the bottom line first very very bottom yeah yeah and it's on page three well yeah so that bottom line is that what we're presenting in our preliminary budget is and that's without the debt service here that's on the debt service on the next page but without that debt service we're presenting a budget that's 12.68 percent increase you've been talking to school directors again so in that I because of that I just want to bring your attention to one thing and just if you could just hold any questions let me go through this real quick and then we can go back line by line but because of the fact that that when we do so much for the mud mitigation our road construction and our general maintenance suffers and and right now we're still trying to do in a catch-up mode so what Paul and I did is we created one other category we just called it special services and what we're presenting in this budget is one month with hiring trucks hiring one person to run an excavator and renting that excavator for one month that amount is 40 grand so that's a big chunk of this increase so with that just to explain that let's we can go back to the second page and that's that's more summer maintenance that's all summer maintenance ditching it's not the general summer things that we would typically do if we weren't so behind tip no mostly just did this is just ditching but you started it I know because I just want to summarize it mentally now just look at the page all right so go to the public works that off the winter maintenance Paul you want to take over I'm happy to wherever you want to know if you're gonna know okay just what we did was we took our actual road saw you know like we typically try and make sure that we're reflecting our actual usages and factoring you know an increase naturally every year from vendors we ended up slightly higher than last year I won't go into too much detail on that but you can see the breakdown of it summer maintenance we were actually expecting a 10% increase in chloride the per gallon price with our increase usage just with the amount of grading that we're doing that that was a pretty good size contributor the other part of that the bigger parts that you'll notice the larger increases are the stone ditch lining and what that is is just because of our the clean water act that we're having to abide by we're having to do a lot more stone lining on these on these steeper roads that what we're doing on McCullerote center road you know from from the farm on up basically what it ends up being is anything over five percent over seven percent has to be stone lined according to the water quality initiative that's the percent grade right seven percent correct so that's a big part of that and the road gravel you see has went up but that's that's actually more reflective of the way we're trying to present the budget so you'll see in construction in the construction section that that's actually gone down and we've actually just more moved it over here on the summer maintenance aspect the other the other big part of this is the roadside mowing our roadside mower as as we discussed our contractor is no longer in business anymore and and he used to do the majority of the towns in our area so we've Steve and I have talked a lot and we really feel like we're getting to the point where for for a little bit more than the cost of what we're doing every year we can own our own do our own and be more effective with our brush which is one of the big contributors of why we're getting so behind on things roadside brush want to jump in sure that that roadside mowing that we've got there the figure that we put in there is a figure from a company that sells these mowers and that's the price of what it would cost for seven years and then you own the mower correct it's a seven-year pain and and we didn't go any further than that I'm I I think that if if the town were to get a loan for the mower it couldn't be substantially less yeah than that because you'd have no expense the first year because I mean so anyway we just get the for here but this is a this is a boom mower similar to what it almost replicated to what we've rented so the only question I have about that is though you're gonna put a guy on the boom mower right how do we get the rest of our work done one key screws and around on the boom mower well the so so the catch with that peter is where you know we if all goes right with with the specialized services that we're going to have it more or less takes that greater operator when he comes off of some you know spring grading he would go into that and transfer back and forth because we've only got so much equipment in trucks anyway where he would be doing other things and filling in especially with vacations and things like that yeah we would we would kind of restructure the way that we do our summertime maintenance if this worked out would you still do four days a week or would you go back to five or still 40 hours you can't you can't do anymore no I'm not saying yeah yeah but I mean would probably stay the four yeah you like the longer time well I think a big big thing is I mean we've talked about it a lot always um that's a big benefit for the guys I mean especially after working seven days a week christmas thanksgiving it's it's a it's a big benefit to them it really is um going forward from there and obviously we have the stormwater discharge fee from the state so so at the end of that it ended up being over 50 percent in almost 51 percent increase there um Steve touched on the specialized services I don't know if we want to it are there questions about that yeah I want to know more about it so so what we did Mary is we we're looking at where we're at the condition of the town and and this all stems back to basically the the wheel turning forward but but the progress going backwards because of the storms we're getting we we we started May 14th we we got that or May 19th we got that storm on August August 1st September 1st I'm sorry we started on where we left off the day of that storm it took that long for our our crew even after Du Bois taking care of Macy Road to recover and put everything back together that's that's how significant that is um so by doing this what we're going to do is rent rent an excavator for a month hire a guy for a month and two tri-axle trucks and and just a one-time fee for this try and get us back to where we really need to be because some of our main roads center road east hill cover hill they're lacking so badly on ditching now and it's been it's very it's very general work that needs to be done but it still has to be done um and we we really we feel strongly enough and we wouldn't put it in here if we didn't think we needed it to try and get get caught up on some of this stuff I'm sorry to interrupt you what's what free roads are you talking about I'm not no no I'm not talking roads I'm not talking right just examples as examples thank you um so that's that's what we would look to do with that um and the only thing that that our crew would be responsible for on that is basically making sure they they have somewhere to dump on a daily basis and um and we'd go back in hydro because we've got the equipment to do it but but they would just be daily progress that's all they would focus on so they'll mostly they'd be talking about ditching that's all they would be doing is ditching that's what we're talking about yep yep um any more on that if then jump to equipment maintenance um we are actually going down a bit on equipment maintenance even though that that seems backwards from what what we've been doing um the truck now is is essentially going to I mean have a two-year warranty on all the major components of it um and also we'll go ahead we're we're gonna we're gonna go for that third year I figured well the concept the concept is so this this is the this is the truck we've we've been rebuilding and installments so if we can get uh uh we've got a two-year guarantee on all those parts that's the new engine the transmission the rear end we're planning to keep that truck for two more years for a relatively small amount of money it's what $900,000 to extend the engine for another year I've I thought I'm pretty two two what two thousand I may be wrong but I was thinking that's what it was I was thinking it was too anyway for for a relatively small amount of money we can we can extend that two-year warranty for three years and the plan then would be keep that truck for a third year we've rebuilt the thing from from one end to the other and keep our fingers crossed but we have well we haven't we'd have a warranty so if that is that brand new engine blows up in 18 months it's covered excuse me so anyway that's that's the concept 2014 western star 2014 western the engine just went in right yeah that's the one where everything's gone wrong yes and and so we opted to put a brand new engine in it they I'll explain briefly but they're they're doing they did not have a full complete engine anywhere okay in the inventory anywhere so they took the three-quarter block and they'll all of the oil associated parts with that they'd normally take off an hour engine but because of the circumstances they're buying all of those parts new so everything is covered under the warranty so it's basically a brand new engine full engine built by the repair shop okay and the other big contributor with that is this this this current year that we're in we budgeted to have the undercarriage all the running gear on the excavator rebuilt because our excavators in good shape but that needs to be replaced so that was a one-time one one budget season thing that we're currently in that is not now reflected in this so that $6,500 is is actually out of this at this point is that why there's a reduction that's why that's a big big factor why there is because there's a $6,500 line item in that or subline item that's no longer there yep when would we have to enter into the agreement for the new the extended warranty right now I mean in this budget calendar or yes yes so it would go into so that should probably go back into the equipment maintenance then it there's if it's $2,000 that's a relatively big number if it was you know that really should go in here if that's when if that's the year we have to enter into that agreement or then we should make a note I can call them and figure out when when we need to I'm pretty sure we're going to need to do it when we accept the truck back so that would be then that's the operate it wouldn't be in the budget year 21 it's in the current year so yeah that's I just trying to figure out yeah but you're going to have to foster that engine there also I mean that can be just lumped away with that engine right right but it's going to be in our current it's going to be in our current year yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it will it will be okay okay um so that's equipment maintenance uh going down the garage maintenance obviously we you know we got the report um from DeWolf we so we figured out that we would not be doing anything in regards to insulation to the to the current town shed um we did did figure out that that our propane usage was was up further than where we thought it was darinda helped us with darinda getting some of these yep some of these actual figures actual figures yep um did that um we're also we'd like to put a little bit of money in there to um now that we got our new fuel tank we'd like to put a roof on that just a small shed style roof to protect that tank keep it out of the weather um so there's there's a little bit of money in there for that as well which is which is why there's such a show such a big increase in fuel tank maintenance but ends up being 700 more so um and then as well as utilities um we we used our actuals from from this past year um and and move forward with that just just try to be reflective of those uh gas and diesel obviously we're you know we're we're doing more work we've we've got more equipment um in our actual usage and and the slight increase in fuel was was up as well so we tried to be more reflective on that as well there's some increase there i won't go into wages and benefits we're proposing a two percent increase in wages i plugged in the two percent and that some things like um we haven't confirmed the health insurance is a confirmed number um retirement is i think we're still waiting on on any of the insurances property casualty workers comp i haven't gotten those numbers back yet we should get those before we have to finalize this budget though we'll get them in just usually in december i think something like that but those are just so all i did on the insurances is i level funded them for now but there could be a potential difference there uh darin what is the increase on health insurance this year 13.33 or 12.33 maybe something like that it was it was definitely double budget yeah yeah good news is unemployment down 300 bucks so well there you go up further there jumping down into into the the lower items culverts um that's a little bit lower steve and i have a amount of feet of culvert that we'd like to purchase to to try and install so as opposed to the 20 000 we would typically buy and that that a lot of years would fluctuate um where we're just going to purchase them ahead of time and have those culverts on hand and hope to do those signs where we're going to remain unchanged same with the bridge fund and paving fund the construction budget's going to change a little bit um you'll see that gravel is ends up being the same um ditch stone i believe remain the same the hydro seating which now we we've been using it turn in just to brief everyone on that we've had really good success with the hydroceder that we bought last year we're getting good turnaround with with germination people are commenting on it and and it's significantly less um involved than than trying to do mulch hay and and buy you know buy hay from the peas farm who have always been great but then we have to store it and moldy i won't yeah it's it's a lot more involved um ledge removal we in the past we've we've done it last year we didn't get to do it but there's a lot of places that we really need to do it and they're right in the ditches yeah and and it's important because a lot of these areas are are what's causing some of our erosion issues because the the water is is cutting into the road because it won't cut into the ledge um in mud season mitigation i think that might have gone up a little bit but it's hard to yeah hard to tell so overall construction has has gone up some as well are these new line items or they're not we always had them but our construction budget was always one single you're adding this so we understand yes because one but right we used to do this right right here and that's how paul and i started and then we spent some time trying to put it into this so that it matches everything so it should match the financials should match the financials and and as we you know each year we're always trying to make sure things are are more transparent and clearer and all of that so um true things so we would under construction just see the final item of 23 correct right correct and up above where it says construction that's what we budgeted 20 thousand like in the budget year 1920 correct so it's a 16.25 increase for the budget year 2021 because it went to the 23 to right yeah yeah um i'm trying to think uh the small tool purchase we're actually removing that and move that that was another one that went up to garage yeah only but instead of a small equipment purchase it's small so that it's it's in the garage maintenance yeah yeah um and then equipment purchase that that we've kind of consolidated what those two would be and and essentially turned it into equipment purchase um and that and that's small stuff not not a greater let's put you know it's just like uh you know this particular thing could be a uh target saw or you know small compactor that type yeah but it's not going to be that uh thing you wanted to buy for roadside no that's too big no that is not um and then the 5000 on the building yeah 5000 on the building fund and and that about wraps it up minus the debt service and debt services on the next page it's not on that single sheet you have but um debt service has actually gone down a little bit because we retired one of the other um loans so the overall highway budget is 11.57 percent increase so we're thinking about graders right we need to have a new right so we're thinking we would likely get that greater this summer in this budget period but have a year with no payments is that what we're thinking historically it would be after July 1 right right okay and this oh yes correct that's exactly as we have done in the past that's correct right yes and we're thinking and we're thinking that is going to be I to be honest I don't know Peter we're because we still have to factor in the trade the the well the trade number one in the plow setup the wing but that's pretty critical and I'm going to throw in there the roller that I'm going to going to really advocate for that that would attach to the that would attach to the back of the greater that that towns are all moving towards so compact compacts the as we grade this is kind of like the old days you don't get that wonderful you don't get that wonderful thunderstorm effect where yeah where it's all of a sudden black eyes yeah right yeah um but just just in in big numbers we're thinking about 250,000 right or something like that I would think all of that yeah yeah and 250 is net yeah but I don't want it I don't want any and the right I don't want any quotes I'm just trying to I'm just trying to think ahead so we would get that this year but not have a payment this year and we would typically finance a greater over what 10 years that I don't know I think so I think that I think that's what we did before yeah yeah I don't remember whether it was seven or ten that was a nine or seven I think that yeah I think the big the big loader we did we did 10 years I think anyway anyway I was trying to um and then that would if you push the truck that would that would offset that you know after that so yeah and I don't believe we have any uh any big replacements other than that those are two pretty big ones they're yeah yeah they are unfortunately without the equipment that that's that's what we are is the equipment and and money to operate them so any questions happy to answer more if I know I've got to digest this a little bit but um you know I think we I think we all feel the pressure if that's the right word and we all feel like the last two years we haven't been able to keep up let alone let alone get ahead so a lot of people have been saying to me hey you know we got to do something so I think this is a good proposal I like the idea of the of the hiring I mean Steve and I talked about this quite a bit you know do you do you hire a contractor to do this or do you hire a hire a one month employee rent the ex I mean it's going to be a lot less than if we uh if we hired a contractor to do this work and yeah it's going to put a burden on you know Paul's going to have Paul and Steve are going to have some extra supervision to do and oversight but um I think it's I think it's well worth it and if that works then that's a good model for us going forward into the future rather than adding a full-time guide to our road crew which a lot of the year we don't really need that's absolutely use them in the summer do you see some of the ditching you have in mind as being in a way a form of mud mitigation a huge part of it a huge part swampy area down by east hill huge part of it center a lot of parts on center of same deal bill it's just and again the nice thing with the ditching is it's it's it's constant movement it's like framing a house that happens fast interior work is slow but when you see the ditching it happens fast and there's big payoffs quickly water runs where it's supposed to it's not leaching into the road so for us it's the biggest bang for our buck and we went back and forth with this when we thought about hiring out the mud season stuff where that we didn't feel like it was worth to to hire that aspect out because it's so detail oriented you've got labor you've got you run into ledge you know there's a lot of variables going into the ground that you don't know about where with ditching it's just it's movement it's constant movement um so again we figured by doing it this way we thought about maybe doing a per foot thing do it by doing it like this these guys just go and that's all they do they don't stop at the end of the you know at the 30 day mark 31 day mark wherever they are they are but it's every day it's it's 8 10 hours of progress yeah that guy I mean I I watched McCulloch hill every day yeah and there's it was dramatic what when you can make the progress it's it's it's fast then you get a storm like we had right before snow chuck that out the window after that can you guys run out that hydroceder for a few people won't take advice we thought we were saying that with the mower believer we're getting yeah times are trying so I just have a couple of specific but in my mind general questions one is and I believe me I know all the issues with us but with all these towns talking about no more dug route to do the mowing right is there any opportunity to share the mower with another town because unlike you know we've talked about in the past about graders and trucks and and sharing but the trouble is we all need them at the same time right when you need to grade you need to grade whereas the mower if we really need the mower for two months out of the summer seems to me there might be an opportunity to share it with I don't know more I don't know but I think it's a conversation worth having I think it's at least worth talking about because everybody's in the same boat and right Paul and I talked about there's finally a substantial piece of equipment which you know I think we want to be selective but yes yeah we've talked about that yeah and you know and the other question I have is so we're gonna have uh well we're gonna have $200,000 on our paving fund with this budget a little more so are we are we looking to apply for for grants and thinking about where we definitely are because that would happen the following summer not this just this budget that would actually because they give you the the entire year to plan for it okay alter you know your finances there'd be the summer schedule if we if we were successful correct yeah because the road up here is bad as we all know we can't we can't let that go too much further which road center center road if it goes much further we'll just pull a black top up and it'll be gravel yeah maybe I have to pull it up it's coming up in chunks I think it is we're all are you talking about the paved course yeah the paved portion people speed even faster than when they go by Steve's house well I'll tell you I'll I'll tell you guys if it was up to me I feel like Dan pavement right now I would honestly god I would I turn it back into a gravel road but that's just me can I just say something yeah Jeremy's man so the great thing about tax season is that people from all over town come in and I just want to put it on the record that Brent Dole have come in came in and he said he has never seen and all the time he's live here the roads look as good as they do right now and he thinks Paul and Steve and he also watches workup so yay for you great there you go thank you bro good news is always welcome yeah who said that Brent? Brent Dole he lives on Shady Road we know it's a significant increase and and I think we've all been together enough that Steve this is not like Steve and I but but we're with the weather being the way it is we feel strongly enough about this and we get it it may not be feasible we understand that but it's tough when you're trying to compete with storms like that I mean it's great we got the money yeah I think we're all we're all pumped about that that doesn't replace the time spent unfortunately and the time lost I should say how much money did you get there's 72 or 8,000 together it's 82,000 82,000 or 10,000 was a grant was a grant for for center road which which was good it was great we got a lot of work done done that that you know material we didn't have to pay for that needed to be done the timing wasn't the greatest but it usually never is so that money's money paid yeah right yeah and that was for the spring storm yeah that was for that was May 19th so that was our that was our overspending correct last year getting reimbursed of course no sooner did we find out three days later the or a week later the engine blew up in the truck so there you go but it's nice to get yeah I mean what what one of the things that frustrates me about all this is all this ditching is great it's way more expensive putting this down significantly more way more expensive and you know I hate to be a pessimist but as those as those nice new stone line ditches silt in over time as they inevitably will when you got a ditch in the next time you're going to dig up all that stone and we got to save it and recycle it and it's just the whole process is is going to be more expensive so you know what irritates me is the state puts all this storm water stuff on us and at the same time do we see any corresponding increase in the state aid to highways minimal if anything you see it goes down yeah right and it's discouraging because it's no different than the mandates at the schools they tell us we have to do this stuff that they don't help us yeah pay for it any any other questions but you have one comment we could eliminate some of the special articles and it would help our budget out substantially absolutely that's why we can't make it too easy terrain is terrain is smiling well that's one of the reasons I think we can't make it too easy for people I mean you know if they want the money they should have to have people in the town well let's go for another yeah um if you have other questions later on don't hesitate to get a hold of Steve and I please well you know as as usual this is the lion share of our budget so everything else everything else is peanuts but but this so um I appreciate getting the numbers good and early I mean as we get we're now going to be very close to having some idea of where we're going to be overall right to render there aren't I mean there are a few mysteries a few mysteries but not many well they're just they're in the insurances and then a couple of small yeah there's a few things we haven't discussed as a general group which we'll address when well we've got some computer stuff and so yeah yeah yeah so have you have you prioritized where you could cut it if we ask you to cut it they'll take it one step at a time no because let me just say that if you said well we don't feel we have enough money we won't we don't want to do this uh special services part we would actually have to go back and rethink of how we're doing everything so we made it we might end up in our budget if we were to redo our budget we might end up asking for a little bit of that money out of there depending on how we see to do the project well let's see let's see how it goes you know my my thing has been and I think I said this to everybody last year we have scrimped and saved and scrimped and saved and scrimped and saved 2 percent increase 3 percent increase um I have concerns about that 2 percent increased for the for the wages that's that's basically level funding wages I don't think that's a good idea so you know I want to think about that some more um we've got a lot of stuff to think about but you know the school doesn't hesitate to do this stuff every year and I hate to throw them under the bus but holy mackerel do they come up with some decreases so even though this is a big percentage it's not a huge amount of money really in the big oven flow of things and you know we're responsible for taking care of all this stuff and we need to do it well and the other thing is these storms are these storms are killing the budget when you're dealing with the weather changes it's devastating budgets so also for what it's worth I personally and in all legal conversations with one or other legislative committee various times uh we have to make a recommendation under the statute to the select board our recommendation would be what what what I think these guys that propose it would be the minimum of what we were expecting we're going to recommend if necessary bite the bullet for a major increase we'll just tell the town using your terms in the last couple years can't kick the can down the road anymore this can't do it and that would be in a way that not be at the expense of the special articles it would be done because the select board believes this is what has to be done this is what you I think you guys have come up with I think I understand what you're trying to do here this seems very reasonable and and I would hate to have you spend another minute trying to sharpen your pencil on it would be my I'm not on the select board but that that's our job oh you're part of the what it boils down to Bill it's not sharpening the pencil it's it's eliminating things it's not we can't tighten anything up on it you know these most of them are operating numbers they're they're they're actual I'm just suggesting that from my perspective I hate to see how to go back and try to reduce yeah this is work that has to be done if people only get to work that's where the hug of how it all happens yeah yeah and unfortunately at the kinds of storms we've been having seem to be the new normal is more normal than that's where the ditching really comes in because when these ditches are in place and they're good these storms we've been holding up pretty well they might have impacts but but they're not they're not total yeah you know total failure of roads yeah yeah I know the ditch of the stone ditch next to our property on the money so that's made it huge and it has not moved and that's not moved since we put it in yeah yeah yeah so um Doug Hayes isn't here yet but Paul is still here do you want to I do I asked him to send me an email I haven't received an email from Doug I just want to let me make sure I've been cutting it because I asked him to text me if he was going to be late so we all set on the budget part we're not quite we're just getting ready for the next study to let you oh no I think we were going to discuss I already know I still I'm going to discuss the full budget I think right over all just where oh I think that was probably a little bit we took a little longer than actually but things are getting a little out of hand but I'm just worried about I haven't heard anything okay just while Paul's here okay yeah I don't know if it's possible just to can we talk what what is it what's the concern what's the well so he has been after me since the spring where where is Doug he is up the hill from me Mary on the other side of the road the place the place where the wash out culvert okay okay and that basic I'm sorry it's the one closer to the town on the left hand side going up the hill yeah it's been washed out forever yeah washed out forever and he has been on me over and over and over again tells me every culvert that the town has replaced all over town blah blah blah on and on and on and I've been saying hey we do not replace culverts for individual driveways the only time we replace culverts is if we're redoing the ditching and the culvert has to be lowered and the culvert has to be replaced landowner pays for the culvert we install it but that's what we do so this last time he comes at me after this last storm he starts coming at me again texts emails and the last time he said well what really caused the problem was the town backed over the culvert with a 10-wheel truck and flatten it so now he's alleging that the damage to the culvert is the town's problem I said listen I'm done I'm not talking to you about this anymore if you want to pursue this you have to come to the select board and present a case to them so that's why he's that's why he's coming and uh I'm I've been polite to him but barely polite in recent times because he just keeps coming back and back and back and back Paula said go arounds with him I don't know whether Steve has but I know I've been lucky he and he and uh does he have a house on there it's just an open land what oh no he's got a house okay way up yeah he's got a big driveway that goes up the goes up the hill so to me quite honestly and I'll say the same thing if he gets here it's his responsibility to replace that and if he has documentation and really believes Paul denies that we we backed over the culvert and flattened it do we sometimes back into driveways yes we do but I don't know where to go with you so I'm looking for help from you we've repaired the culvert the the washout because it's it's a failed culvert with no bottom countless times which is the whole reason why I told them Doug we will no longer be repairing this we've we've spent winters where we've cut pressure washer hoses thawing the culvert because it's it's poked through where it's rod yeah went to pull the hose out and severed the hose I we've gone above and beyond what we typically would most people wouldn't want to there's the over there is he here was coming in no this is a fire yeah oh okay okay well I I told him I told him we would we would uh he is here done huh we're running behind schedule so we're we're just kind of you're right on time 15 minutes late Billy you want to move your stuff so we should introduce ourselves you know may be your hood Steve Martin floodboard Paul Sermanara fill hat blackboard Mary Skinner select board so I just while we were while we were waiting for you I gave the the board a little of the history from what I know and uh you know you're looking for the town to replace help you with that culvert so yeah tell us what to tell us what you have to say as they said we're here to listen well anybody can drive by and and see it and obviously um you know we know what happened originally with the weather back in April when um quite a few culverts were washed out and the town was uh I appreciate the town uh coming by and uh dumping loads of rip wrap so not only my driveway but quite a few people so they could get out of their driveway because it was four foot five foot deep by six foot wide for the entire driveway entrance so you couldn't even get out of your driveway so um you know I appreciate I appreciate that back then um Paul um so um since then I guess uh you know obviously a couple weeks ago we had a uh we had some more water wash out storm um but you know I thought what contributed to this besides the weather is um obviously it's good that the that the town cleans out all the ditches um obviously mine piles up with silt um right at my base of my right at the inlet of my culvert on the upper hillside um and um and I understand you know um you know a lot of times it's just about plugged you know it's within um you know it's within the top half anyway and uh so I understand you know it doesn't take much of a storm for the water to run over the top of it so um the town digs out the ditches and stuff like digs out the inlet in front of the inlet I felt that what contributed to it my wife came home just by chance at lunch time and um as periodically she does but anyway um you know the town was in there digging it out and um so you know I think when you dig it out you know um in mine's an older it's an older I got pictures I didn't send them but um um anybody can go by and look at it but um so when you dig it out um you know if you dig underneath if you dig it deeper than the culvert itself a lot of times on an older one too it it washed out the bottom like it undermined the culvert so it went under so when we had to storm it washed out the underneath of it and and anybody can see you know it you know it washed it out whatever my wife just happened to come home she saw the excavator in the driveway and you know um and we always knew the drive the culvert is I don't know how old it is it's got to be 25 years old or whatever 30 years old it's a metal one too so it was partially rusted so we know to drive on one side of the driveway you know we know to one area uh you know don't drive on it because it's you know that's where it was tender um you know had a small hole that had developed in the top of the culvert and so the um dirt and gravel pression run or whatever on that side fell down into it so there'd be a small hole in the top of the culvert as you go in your driveway so we knew to avoid that um I think when when the town trucks turn around and I see greater tracks in our driveway too I see greater tracks in the driveway so I mean you can't miss the greater track it's different than any other track obviously any other tire frames so um I think when the bigger trucks or trucks go in there even though even a one time loaded up would clearly um you know do some damage to that and I believe it did and I have pictures of it and it actually caved in so it was never caved in before now that the culvert actually caved in it broke even bigger hole and caved in on the culvert so besides the undermining of the water washing underneath of it obviously that contributed to I got a few pictures um you know I felt that um you know everybody's driveway everybody's driveway washed out oh it's on my phone but um okay but um and I can send them to your text uh to your phone if you want oh if you don't mind if we promise you want to look at your other pictures if you have a good picture just pass them around well these are I take it in the dark because I leave at five o'clock in the morning and don't come back until dark pretty much uh even in the summer but so there's the uh that was never like that so you can see the uh the hole was a small hole in the culvert and actually you can flip you can slide the pictures um so there's like five or six pictures there Steve so you'll see them um you know so anyway you can slide it either way and see the five or six pictures and they're pretty much in the dark um so anyway um so I just felt like you know obviously a lot of driveway plus I talked to people who the town replaced their culvert they bought the culvert in the town replaced it um so and I understand I'm talking to um you know Peter that obviously if they're ditching in that area maybe they had they felt like it was in their best interest the county's best interest to replace the culvert if somebody had their culvert there so I know some people that have had that happen and so I brought that up and I said well you know when do we so do we pick and choose who we want to replace culverts with you know um you know obviously when there's been road work you know and all that gravel let's just say down by uh hickories down through the p-card I'm just saying you guys have done all great work as far as up over molly supo and all fixed all the drainage in a lot of areas but so it's not a flip deep in mud anymore but on that stretch you know just in general you know I asked for some of that materials so these are just things I'm bringing up like I said oh wow geez you're replacing the road sections and all over these places and you're just giving it to people and it was our tax dollars 50,000 I mean somebody could estimate and I have it's over $50,000 of road material is down at John P. Carr's place so I mean so that and that happens I understand there's road work in certain areas so you want to go to the shortest place I said hey you know I'd like some of that material you know give me some of that material I'll cover up my my driveway so you know maybe it'd be more robust and it won't wash out right there at the driveway entrance needless to say you know maybe my my driveway is a mile from where they're doing the construction and that's not as convenient as somebody that's 400 yards away so that was something else I wanted to point out obviously anybody can see you know all that material that the whole road section that was replaced sure the whole road section that was replaced from you know basically almost Hickory's down through the P. Carr's you know that whole that section right there um you know one person gets all the material so I'm just saying that you know maybe well I'm going to just interject there Doug and say that whenever we're working we're looking for the for the closest spot and and we've given material to people all over town yeah our excavator is no good without a truck under it so the sooner that the turnaround is and if I remember right we did dump material at your house it wasn't as much as John because the area is not as big but I just want to make sure it's noted that we did put material at your in your little yeah pull off there as well right in it and a lot of it is the the ditching work and obviously that's there's gravel there too and stuff like that um obviously we'd all like that uh road material uh that you know uh stay mad or whatever uh that comes out of the road and obviously somebody will you know go around and sell it afterwards after getting it from the town for free which is all our tax dollars well I've asked for I asked for the material and um I even said that I would pay for the trucking up to my place of the town material that came out of the road which is our tax dollars and it was told to me sure I can do that Doug and then later on when I asked again hey when you're going to be able to drop that off well I'm going to I'm keeping that I'm going to um I got better things for it and then I've heard who said that you know I don't want to um I'm not going to bring up for you I don't understand you're saying that I already told you the people the the material that's being replaced the the sections of road that are being replaced around town and it's being like Paul said you want to dump it to the closest uh the closest but there is a reason why we're digging that out and I understand because of the blow oh my god okay same thing with molly super okay yeah that material is yeah it's there's a reason why we're excavating it yeah there's a reason so Doug just a bit so it it would be helpful so I'm just I'm just venting on a bunch of things no no no no I I hear that but I think it would be good for you to tell us exactly what you're looking for I'm looking for I feel that um everybody everybody obviously everybody a lot of people's driveways that washed out due to the weather um whether at their driveway entrance with their culverts you know I'm looking to say that I believe when you know when when the excavation was done at the inlet of my of my driveway entrance to excavate that silt out of there of the culvert that it undermined the actual you know so when we it undermined my culvert so when we did have this storm it just it went right underneath my driveway it went right underneath the culvert and I feel that contributed to and I understand their town's doing their work and so I I'm going to repeat what Peter said what is it you I'm looking for compensation and replacement or compensation a portion of the culvert and replacement of that of that culvert there's obviously if somebody doesn't want to do that then dump a load of riprap in there and a load of which you have plenty of material there grab some crush and run or whatever you got there and dump that over right there at my over the top of my culvert it's a huge hole it's a huge hole I see it every day when I do it yeah so I'm just saying dump a load of riprap in there and dump a load of crush and run over the top of it and and then I guess it'll be there and it's frozen it's not gonna nothing's going to be happening too much more through the winter so and then I guess we'll take it up in the wintertime well I don't I don't think it will stay there you I'm not trying to all I know Doug is the history we've had with the culvert um I've told the board in the past couple years we've actually ruined a pressure washer hose for thawing the culverts because the spot that's that's now dumping water in the middle of it where it's eroded not at the inlet that is claimed to have been undermined yeah and it's actually dinged there too just let you know it looked like the excavator has dented the inlet too if you if you zoom in on the inlet it looks like it dented it but well I'm not talking about the inlet because the the inlet's solid as can be it's it's where where the culvert has failed and rotted underneath that it's eroded which would have been none of the town's doing like the culvert as you've admitted is is failed yeah it's failed we've we fixed it numerous times we've ruined a pressure washer hose thawing the culvert and and that's not just on my my thing because he I know everybody's culverts freeze I've talked to Peter about it yeah no and I and we we thought those culverts with no questions asked but the reason why that hose got ruined is because it it punched through that area that's failed and when when we tried to pull it back it cut and ruined the hose because the culvert has failed it's rotted on the bottom now I understand I've never heard that before yeah you know so I know that the beginning part of the culvert is actually good where you guys still drive there's no undermining that happened there it's all on that lower portion where the culverts failed and we fixed that numerous times okay we have and you've even you've said that you know so it's it's just hard for me Doug and I we we went over this in the spring and I said you asked how much it would be for the town to fix it which we don't do that anyways as a that's like a business thing so I know you you had comments on the price of it but we don't have small equipment no I understand that you said it was twenty hundred twenty seven twenty hundred dollars was your word and I told Matt you know hey Matt Matt Dwyer how much would you do it for Matt says oh that's like I told him that the town said twenty hundred he said he said that's more like thirteen hundred I could do it for thirteen because he has a small he has a one ton and a mini excavator and we do not okay that's but we don't do that as a business we're not in the business of replacing culverts okay that's fine but so what's the practice been in the past well some people I've got no I'm asking Peter just um uh the position of the board so our policy has been as far as I know and I double check this with with Stephen Paul yeah is the only time we replace culverts okay is when it's a direct result of our ditching activity and then we ask the property owner to pay for the culvert and we install it so you know if you if you're if you're digging a deeper ditch and the culverts way up here it doesn't work got you okay yeah but we do not and you know I tried to explain this to Doug I said how do I say that I'm going to replace your culvert when you know many people this spring we're replacing including my next-door neighbors and people right up and down the the road from you are replacing those at their own expense and yeah when the town grader comes along and tries to smooth it out or or make it better but we're fundamentally not replacing culverts yeah okay so you know if we did something wrong if we caused the damage or if it's as a result of our construction activity it needs to be done that's a different thing but as far as Doug disagrees with me he said we've replaced culverts all over town I said well I'm not aware that we have and Paul and Steve aren't aware that it's only when you when the ditching like you said the ditching you're ditching and it's in best interests of the town to replace otherwise you're going to wash out and I understand so those are the ones that get replaced um like I said like I was just saying the uh when you're digging out the ditch also like I said the excavator has turned around on my driveway numerous times over the years well I would be excavator turn around in New York I'm not the excavator sorry I mean the the um grader the grader has uh because it's a good location if you go up and down that road you're not going to go into Chip and Paula Higgins place that's right on the corner you're not going to go across the road to them to to the guy that bought uh Travis Milford place you know that's uh that's not a good place that's right on the corner you're not going to go to Lawson's place that's kind of like just after the corner but down over a dip and hill so I mean there's places only limited number of driveways let me so let me just say drive turn around in my drive hold on a second first of all I disagree with everybody I'm not saying we haven't turned around in your driveway I'm sure we've had lots of town equipment has turned around in my driveway if you had a properly installed culvert with a proper amount of dirt over it any of those vehicles could without without any damage so without any damage you're right but mine is a a culvert that's older and it's slightly rotted and rotted in some areas more than other so therefore when a grader drives over the top of it and trucks for the town equipment then obviously you could see that was never like that how could you get a dent in it and then all of a sudden it crushes the top of it we never drove on that side of it so you know that was in but I always saw the greater tracks in there I always saw towns towns turn around in there all the time it's a great place to turn around but you're right when you have a an older rotted culvert um you don't want to be driving around you don't want to be turning around there you know you can so I'm saying yeah it's partially my my fault partially the town's fault so let's come to an agreement to you know to replace it if not I'm going to get a load of riprap and dump it in there and it's going to sit there I'm not going to I'm not replacing my my culvert I'm just going to dump a load of riprap I'll have stoners you know someone come in and jump a load of riprap and we'll uh and now it'll be back so be careful if you do that because if that causes a road to wash out we're going to be coming after you know I know everybody's everybody can say that it you know so I'm sure even if the next storm comes and it washes out everybody's driveway including mine and goes out into the road why are you so against replacing your culvert after 25 years it's probably in the springtime I will it's a financial cost too it's not free some people might have all the money in the world some people don't a lot of people don't okay so you know there it's clearly a difference I'm sure I'm truly I'm truly if I had the money I wouldn't be arguing too like if I had you know money that a lot of people have that are halfway retired then you know they there's people with money that have no problem just saying oh don't worry about a town I'll I'll replace it but you know I look at it you know well if there's fault is with both parties then why shouldn't the town also contribute towards this monetary cost and um and I look at it you know you know I don't have all the money in the world to just replace it to you know call up and have somebody come in and replace it so so that's that's where we stand and so the county can can you know you've heard the side of it I mean you can clearly see the culvert is crushed if you want to see the the photos again that culvert was never it was perfectly uh severe you know circular whatever you want to say but it was never but it was it was uh had a hole in the top and a hole in the bottom but it was never it was never crushed it was never crushed we never drove on that side of it and when I kept seeing the you know the like I said the greater tires on it and the town truck uh the one ton on it I'm not sure if the ten wheels turned around there or not it's a great place to turn around so I mean I just want to let you know so um now it's crushed and we've got the message I think so I'm all set so well you guys can talk it over and and I'd rather to tell you the truth I'd rather talk about it with you in the room so you can hear it so what are we thinking board members that culvert it's it isn't just this year that culvert has been failing for for quite a while I don't know when it was rotted out but I've gone by there and seen it rotted out on the top yeah before well there was a small hole on the top and and that's where the water the gravel was falling down in you're right but when it's rotted there it's rotted out 20 years ago and before that me there was a property there and it was like a little tiny mobile home you know even it was like a 30 footer and and so that was at the bottom I don't even know if somebody really lived there but anyway that's the culvert that was there uh with that mobile home at the bottom and then I bought the property and uh when the person had pulled the mobile home off I bought the property as raw land and um I built the house but you didn't replace the culvert no it needed 20 years ago it could have been even older than 25 oh yeah I mean when did somebody might know Steve you might know how long that I don't know either I guess Sarah would have to look it up but I mean uh when that person uh that I bought it from you know when they got the approval yeah in first had a mobile home here from my perspective I see two scenarios one is if we were ditching uh east tail and coming down through there and ditching and had because of our ditching had to replace it we would uh that's one scenario the other scenario is I think that you need to replace your culverts at your expense sure so when are we are we scheduled to do ditching there yes yes it could potentially be yep could potentially be I'm just what I'm what I'm worried about is uh we almost we almost lost a big section of the road yeah and that's going to happen again until that's until that's properly fixed so I don't like threatening our residents and saying we're going to go after them for damage that they they do to our road but I supposed potentially we would um I don't remember that we ever have but maybe we would but is there any uh I I truly feel like the town has contributed more than their fair share of material and labor several times over the course of this culvert's failure but what Peter's asking is if if we need to ditch down through the air I would replace it if if the over was was provided and and the timing worked out that I would but that doesn't help it right now I mean you see down below Lawson's about 200 yards down the road for me is Lawson's place the roads washed out the road is but that's ledge dog that's not culvert failure okay because about three four feet into the road the road is washed out for a good you know 40 yards the main that's the main east hill road is washed out for 40 yards that's the ledge yeah their culverts and I've stopped several times you're you're lower neighbor below you I have to talk with them because they're their culverts beginning to fail and it'll be their expense but that's as a homeowner that's that's the expense of of having it again I'm happy if the if the scenario worked and the culvert was provided and we were there of course we would change it like we would any other time and that's probably why you know like I said I I know people who have had their culverts replaced and they said oh yeah we had the the culvert and the town you know was coming through and they put it in and I was like wow what a deal that is and so and then that confirms after talking to different people and they say oh well if we're in that area and we're doing ditching and stuff like that yeah we've replaced it you know because otherwise it's just going to wash out you know because you always dig deeper mainly you dig deeper so so just to bring this to some kind of a conclusion if it's likely we're going to do ditching there next year you buy the culvert we put it in thank you um that's a hypothetical that's right because we don't I mean what when do you decide where you're ditching well that would be if you decide to give us the money no but another down from $1,000 and obviously I don't remember how much or what oh yeah oh absolutely we we would never jump over a color you know we don't pick and choose we don't we don't skip all our Steve estimated cost of the culvert 15 inch culvert 30 feet is the under $400 I believe 15 inch I thought it was okay because I was looking at that one of the sizes and I thought it was 800 but of course I'm not no I don't think it's not 800 but and the other thing you know I think it's that's under 450 maybe 500 where are you getting it how do we how do we do that we we sell them one of our no longer can but we no longer can we've been so they have to buy the color they have to buy the culvert yeah okay because we are not a we're not tell we're not a they're not a good deal you know probably uh maybe and I know I can call around for for costs I'm not a contractor so I'm not going to get a good deal but I mean if uh you know wherever the town's getting theirs the source that they're getting theirs from you know maybe if I went there then I would get a better deal than you know because people that deal uh you know these kinds of these uh sources that sell to the towns and volume you know they can do it cheaper than a single homeowner going someplace and getting it so at least like we say along with the town we'll try to get that in that in the schedule we'll see where that goes but I'm not gonna promise it it's gonna be the first thing in the spring right right I thought we still had a problem for the winner yes or no I don't I'm just curious what the short term I am worried that will well it's it's everything's freezing up um you know obviously we just had some rain you know today and a couple weeks ago but I mean uh I plan on uh getting a load of uh getting a load of probably it would have to be rip wrap right it couldn't be five inch minus or anything like that that'd be heavy to fill into that uh five inch or because well it would because the culvert is is failed and there's water going under it stone would be better because it would continue to flow down the ditch right that would be the best bat with larger stone what do you guys got over there you know that you know I already had more five inch really any more of that rip wrap that you guys dumped on ditch and stone it's all gone we used it all gravel gravel and sand is all we have across the street I'm sorry I just wanted you to know that we're way over yeah so I know we are thank you thank you very much for everybody's valuable that I appreciate it Colchester technical rescue decided they were getting rid of their rescue and they're going to put it up for auction it's 2004 with 23,000 miles on it Eric's got some pictures of it from underneath and the rocker panels which are important and so they're looking it's blue booking out about 13,000 um so for price-wise I mean we would offer them less than 13 and see where we came up with so when I priced it out it did it between 10 and 13,000 for the truck and then for lights and a cap to go over um the bed portion comes up to basically $5,100 so you're looking at on the outside about 18,1 for this and then I priced out a new crew cab and chassis and we're eligible for fleet purchases because middle sex part of the towns a new truck with a new redding body and everything comes up to about 54,7 both of them gas trucks so we don't have to deal with the diesel issue because if you don't use the new diesel engines constantly the dump they have put in crystallizes so we don't want to do that so that's kind of where we are there the pictures would look at it's in great shape I haven't gone out to see it but Eric it's 2004 with 23,000 miles on it and it's spent all it's like my garage hey Jeff just put the record I don't understand priced out new cabin could chassis that's an additional 54,7 the to price comparison of a new oh I see it's 54,000 right for the the cabin chassis and the box I didn't understand that either so basically a new truck with getting to where the used is is going to be about 55,000 versus 15 to 18,000 and we're this just happened to pop up and that's why we're looking at this roof and is our existing rescue worth anything I mean anything funny you should ask my son sent me pictures of a very similar but newer rescue down in Texas I can go look at that on Sunday um but they're trying to sell for 5,000 so yes I would say our rescue is worth something probably in the neighborhood of one to two thousand somebody who wants a big block Chevy would probably want it it's got a 454 in it as does this one which was tuned up last year and now really goes well yeah so you know there's four parts to it it's so easy last year we spent close ours was tuned up last year this truck was this truck yes yeah last year our truck our existing for 718 so we spent about $900 last year on that we spent a little over 1300 this year and we've got rust issues to get it through inspection for this for 2020 so we're we're looking at so this is this is basically a one ton or three quarter ton double this is one one it's a one ton and it has what I call a service body on the back right not a pickup body it's four-wheel drive yeah and it has the the six-person cab six new tires and a winch it does not have a winch but it has a receiver so the good news just keeps on coming so I mean when it popped up it was like well we can save a lot of money but if we can make it happen I understand the financial constraints and everything but the the opportunity to get a vehicle in good shape from another department you said something about how you get some some access to this because you're part of the towns or something like that I didn't understand that no that was for the new truck for the new truck we can get fleet pricing because middle sex is part of the league of cities sometimes right so the estimated the estimated life of this truck up we were to buy it would be how long do we think I mean it should last a long time yeah 15 years 15 20 years yeah it's gonna stay in garage so it's not gonna be a lot of sense I mean our current one we got used and it's an 82 82 83 but it's it's reaching the end of its usefulness yeah yeah so this would replace a truck of similar configuration yes okay the the configuration we have now is we have a single cab with a bench seat okay you can squeeze three people yeah front and then people have to get in the back the only entrance and exit to that back compartment is a back door so if it were to get re-rended up on the interstate with people in it yeah we're gonna be pretty that's we we do not want to that's what we want to go with the creek and that one's 82 1982 86 and that's the one you just tuned up yeah we've been putting I mean we always yeah yeah okay you only have one rescue vehicle and how many rescues did you do last year where you used the vehicle I do not know how many times it went out it goes out on all the interstate calls pretty much a lot of them not I mean the numbers that goes out more than the fire trucks no as much as engine one will go out first and then if we have the people or the need the rescue will follow for the interstate or any accident all uh structure fires will go out okay but you only had what what's was it 38 calls last year the thing is this is a piece of equipment that's a necessary item just like we have home insurance that we hardly ever access but we have home insurance the rescue the tanker the airpacks are all things that we need to have to bring to the fight now things that are luxury that we don't have and we don't have any plans to get would be like a hearse tool I understand the argument I just wanted you to answer my questions I don't have those numbers of exact how many times it went out I didn't get that for tonight well when we were discussing the budget we got them yeah I know but it was only like about 38 times the year that's I mean that it's irrelevant because we don't you know we're hoping no calls come in and we never have to use the equipment but if we have a call for a fire we need the equipment so it doesn't matter if it goes out 100 times or 38 times or one time you know we can't not have enough so call chester's getting rid of this because they're replacing it they replaced it with a bigger truck bigger truck okay and do we need to get a winch if they took it back is that something that's included or is that an additional I didn't price out a winch but this is a plug-in to the receiver you know two by two plug-in winch so it's it's something that can be added it's hundreds of dollars it's not fast yeah right yeah okay so this is available now they're gonna that's that's the problem if we're gonna do this they're gonna if we don't do this they're willing to sell it to us we can hopefully negotiate a price without it going to auction okay okay but they're anxious to move it so they're they're not going to wait for us to fiddle-faddle around a few walks so that's why I asked asked them to come I said come on down and tell us about it and let's see how people feel and thinking about a little bit since you and I talked about it Jeff I mean the bottom line is the cost of borrowing is is peanuts and I hate to borrow borrow borrow borrow but pay for this truck over four or five years and it's it really is and it and this is the last vehicle in our upgrade for a long time so it just to me it seemed logical to try to go this route even if we go for a go to go through v-tech and go for a used and they put something together it's going to be more than that because we're going to do we're going to put the lights on we'll buy them and the prices on the lights are non-sale prices right now they the company that I looked at has sales on them but I wanted to give you you know if we don't get the sale prices is what the prices normally are so the lights will probably come in under that but I wanted to give the what we thought and putting a cap on it I looked at catamount north and they did a similar vehicle for shelter and it has the same utility box type thing and it has a cap over top with doors on it and then more compartments up top that's about $3,500 but that gives us some more capability and keeps stuff weathered and so what's the all-in cost the all-in we're looking at at probably the max of 18-1 versus 50 something for a new one 55 for a new one we wouldn't likely buy a new one but even to get a even to get a even to get a used a used a similar used good truck if you could find one I still think that's a pretty truck to price I went online and looked at and looked at I think three-quarter tons not one tons but they were going for more money than that significantly more and so I don't you know seems like every minute that the catch register rings and the dorinda trembles but we we got to make we got to make good decisions that take advantage of opportunities when they come up so this kind of falls in the line of engine six that we got how much time do you I mean will they give us a couple how anxious are they to auction this it will probably be going up to auction within the next few weeks so we what are you going to offer them I would go at them with 10 first and see where they come back it seems like a good opportunity I agree and I agree too it does but we're you know financially we're in not very good place right now you know no I know we're not but but you know getting back to the highway discussion getting back to all our discussions getting back to the computer discussion we're going to have a few minutes yeah we can we got to take care of this stuff and when we have an opportunity a good opportunity I think we have to try and do it and we'll strip off like we have a generator in the current rescue we'll strip that off and put it on we'll do some re plumbing because we'll put a gas tank on it because right now it's plumbed to the gas tank in the rescue and we won't do that we'll just make a we'll have a tank get a tank for it but there's stuff that we can take off the equipment yeah equipment we're not going to take the light bar because that's an old light bar and the new standard is leds and especially up in the interest that you want to be seeing so it makes sense to throw a couple hundred dollars into good quality leds light systems somebody willing to make a motion will you gentlemen I have a question yes so in order I believe sir you might be able to chime in on this in order to borrow we can for the town highway trucks but can we for fire trucks without yes you can for how long you had to finance it's all about the finance okay yeah yeah so I think it's either five or seven right on something like this I think it's anything over five years needs a town light boat is that what it was I knew there was something like that five years about the right amount of this yeah thank you let me just quickly check the statutes no that's fine I think close enough close enough may I just say something very quickly Peter yes so when I was getting my tires changed I already told Marge about this I was gonna bring this up yeah go ahead okay I ran to a person who works who is involved with the faced in PTO and they put their name down at Lawson's brewery which will donate all its tips they pick one organization and maybe two organizations per month and this was just last April down a great month for tourism they got $16,000 and I just think it just requires a letter from the fire department to them saying we would provide we're raising money for a rescue vehicle and if you want me to write the letter I'll be happy to write the letter and just say we need money for a rescue vehicle if you never know it could be servicing one of the people who works at your brewery or one of the people visiting your brewery and please could you consider putting our name down $16,000 we could call it the sip well the I don't like that we this is where they do this but the the timing on this I don't think we can wait to for that to go we're not asking you to wait we're asking you to do this to yeah we're going to reimburse the cost if we get it yeah that's I thought it was going to know what I'm saying is that you know I don't know how long the wait is to get on their list it seems pretty lucrative yeah no we're going to everybody's going to know about it but um yeah we'd be happy to the employees we you just said that the employees pick who the who it's going to go to I don't know who picks yeah that's what Bob told me because you just have to make the ambulance has done it before and they got oh yeah I this is all we're saying is you know one of the things we've been after you guys to do for a while is fundraising is help with fundraising and this isn't standing out in the cold with a with a boot collecting dollars and quarters this is real this is real money and it's fairly simple to do so if you could if you could work with Sarah to generate that letter we'll get it in there and see what happens regardless of this rescue decision but to say that we're to say that the purpose of this is to uh procure a rescue isn't too much of a stretch so hard to pay off the rescue but yeah yeah yeah yeah so I mean that was a joke calling it the sip but you know it also made me stop and think and I was a very left here why not sell advertising on a fire truck I don't think you can legally I've never seen advertising you know a subtle blossoms maybe we could put maybe we could put put decals on the turnout gear you know like like uh football team look I'm sorry we don't have a lot of time tonight we need to make a decision on this because we've got a long way to go I'm offered but but uh we're looking for some help from you on this and I think this is pretty a pretty simple thing to do it's not going to require a lot of time or effort so it's and especially if Sarah can write the letter that makes it easy on everybody so thank you sir yeah yeah yeah put a little put a little smelt yeah put a little smelt in there okay we're gonna do this we gotta have a motion I'll make the motion but it'll be up to a maximum of 18 000 and for four years for finance so we would finance it for I think that four years so we would take the free year so it wouldn't be in this budget it'd be in next year's it will be in next year's budget if they buy it now that's that's what I'm saying this by this year I mean between now and July 1st so the budget we're talking about it's gonna be in there right exactly so we'll have to get that number yeah got in between so a second I'll second it so all in favor of the motion that's been moved in second that purchased this truck for no more than 18 000 dollars hopefully less well less with uh equipment equipment they're gonna buy all in favor all right hi is that a no or an extension I'm I'm thinking but mine's a no mine's a no too okay so the motion doesn't pass no I guess that's it guys I'm sorry all right thank you yeah I would rather not you want to review the budget I'm assuming yeah so we can because we have the budget right that's what I thought so so we're back to this so we're back to this piece of paper and I'll try to summarize it pretty quickly so under general government it's about a 1.62 increase again we have I plugged in just 2% on the increases that would be for the select board and Sarah as the assistant board um insurance numbers are not actuals and um we don't have county dues or county vlct dues or county taxes numbers yet so you've just plugged in so I just plugged in last years for now so you don't think it makes sense to um increase it by some percent because it just well this isn't this is just a preliminary thing you know it's we should have a lot we'll have a lot of that information by the time right I mean I have I can't say what it's yeah I mean last year's numbers came in less than you know well we actually had real numbers but each time we go to the budget with itself so they'll be in in December they usually come in they usually come in in December so um then we have uh so that's basically everything that's in that one the we drop um discretionary fund last year we dropped down to 8,000 we had always we had been um or actually we increased it to 8,000 that's what I was gonna say but we've been using far more than discretionary in discretionary funds and I don't know if you want to leave that at that or not what you mean is we're running at and we're taking it from other budgets well and we overspend we overspend every year and it shows only $2,400 like that we use but we really used more because the expense went to the actual expense as opposed to reducing the discretionary fund so that's food for thought if you want to change that but the solid waste is a solid figure yes that's when just barely came in so everything elections because we have two big elections coming up that increased um you've got the primary the you know um the primaries and regular voting so our voting I'm sorry where is that that's in the same it's under elections the one two three four like the fifth one up from the total for general government okay got it above miscellaneous expense uh yeah um next group is the admin and here we have again office wages were budgeted in with a two percent increase the um it shows higher because there's been um a change in um we brought on another person that um I'm trying to think why that went up that wasn't because of that um oh we really aligned Sarah's hours as admin so because she hadn't been in there before as um it was split 48 and it should be 49 and 51 so that's what makes the change there there lister wages you know how that went from their presentation so that's showing the extra increases that's assuming that we adopted right there we're just putting in all these are all assumptions yeah um and the link when tax collector wages that just was across the board two percent increase and then all your associated taxes with that again we'll work waiting on a couple of things there the other thing we changed was the listing mileage and expenses under their budgets and um we dropped what we were allowing for office seminars because nobody really goes to any in this department so we saved a little bit there and that takes care of that town hall we adjusted electricity are you going to come back to the computer maintenance okay why don't we just you want to discuss that now yeah I mean you guys tell me I just know that you said you wanted to talk about yeah I've got a highlighter but I didn't know how if it was something that you guys were going to talk about later when Phil or um well I really wasn't going to talk about maintenance per se as a lineup and I was going to talk about a couple of things we need to do to replace a couple of computers right and I think the all your expense in here showing that we spent last year why it went to 13 000 it's because it all got posted into when we bought that it all got posted in the computer maintenance it's not just okay um that would make sense yeah but the computers but the computers we're talking about buying we're talking about buying them ASAP so you're talking about doing it beforehand okay pretty much have to because they're going to die in january okay so then is 10 000 a good number to leave in there for yeah ongoing support yeah okay then that answered that so we're still going to call a computer maintenance instead of computer purchase a made well it doesn't matter okay um electricity we adjusted to what we have been spending so that which shows the increase there um street lights I I lowered that because we only spent 1700 last year and that's the new that's the new solid state street lights right the price dropped I remember we got my bought the new bulbs to use half the electricity or whatever it is um I didn't make any changes to the public safety department um again we never used the health officer or the animal control officer but I left a minimal amount of it um let's see emergency management that was um okay that was level fun he level funded that I think but didn't he wasn't that where Paul and Tenty came in and asked for something different or no I don't remember I haven't submitted I don't think he I didn't think oh maybe that's why I got it highlighted because he hasn't submitted it okay so that one was just plugged in fire department we were all here when they submitted their items again we're waiting for insurances on that um get service for the fire department is gone out and that is because of the tanker actually you know it is a wrong number in there that's going to help that should be oh everybody's going to love that one what's the mistake put in 17 000 instead of 1700 oh I like that we're not okay we're what's the line is that under interest interest fire station interest so it's 17,487 or what's the number you take out I'm going to take out round the set up the number here in a minute so it probably is 17,488 right here it is that's four fire station the bond is 17,487 we were right okay yeah that's the number that's here and what and what is the actual so that does so that reduces that line item to 11.88 percent and overall their budget for the total fire department is um down 3.05 percent wait a second with the debt service it's down okay so what's what is it now again I'm sorry what the bottom line yeah is 137,925 down 142 yeah yeah so it's a minus 3.05 percent and that's because last year we paid off the equipment so that reduced that by $2,500 so the 140 the 1,472 becomes one million well let's not change the bottom line until we get to the bottom oh all right all right let's see here let's go through there's some rules here oh that sounds like some bad rules yeah well no I just want to keep going to make sure it's not anymore sure it takes good to go through this like this um highway department you already just heard that one so we can skip the next two pages I don't want to sail through this one um cemetery submitted an even budget recreation he submitted a budget and he added wants wanted to add $500 for a facility maintenance fund he wants to start building a fund um all right darinda do we already have a facility maintenance fund no you wanted to started it's new okay that's got to be done by the town voters I just want to make a note of that that's got to be an article okay so he can't just add that all right well there we go but knowing that's in there we can put it on the town warning right or do we have to do it before no you can put it on you put on the town warning and just bring it to the voters no big deal yeah right okay so let's not forget that yeah um and he had taken an um he reduced his number of hours um so the payroll section went down on his because he said he was going to work less hours but then he increased his zoning hours so um decreased him here everything but increased them there so um does he get compensated the same amount yes yeah yeah and so it kind of was um a little bit of a watch there and where did he put a 2% in uh he didn't I reflected 3% he doesn't put anything in I just increased it 2% um can I ask you about the cemetery when you say they submitted is that there are somewhat private cemetery it's doesn't fund their private cemetery this is all are they are they're in charge of our other cemeteries yes yeah let's see so zoning this so there wasn't a I added in and this was not in his budget a thousand dollars for legal fees under zoning good idea um I don't know if that's a good number or what but I just it wasn't in his budget that doesn't even buy us 10 hours and he increased his um courses and seminars from 200 dollars to 250 dollars you know what I'm going to bring this up right here if you don't mind and something I already showed peter but we have we have an issue where um uh our zoning administrator results in the zoning administrator in northfield and in marsh marsh field marsh field and so I think that if I don't know we haven't talked to him about how he's distributing but we should not be paying for all his education no he's then taking that talent and going elsewhere something I think we need to discuss and then there's a one more thing I also want to bring up the dorinda's been getting the shaft pay wise you guys when you hire dorinda to be when you pointed her as treasurer she said I would like to be compensated the same as her predecessor and she was compensated the same as her predecessor at 27 dollars per hour except then when you guys made the motion to change all part time to make all part time employees 20 20 dollars an hour what happened it was poor dorinda got a demotion from set 27 to 20 I thought she was now earning 31 dollars no that she's talking about the lincoln tax collector not for treasurer not for treasurer okay well then correct oh because why it's okay I now I'm confused because you cut your pay seven dollars an hour no no no that she just said no the treasurer position remained the same but when you make you brought all you made the motion that all other part time employees had was to be at 20 dollars an hour which was supposed to be an increase well for everybody else so your treasurer is the same and your delinquent went down the delinquent dropped from the whatever it was down to the 20 we stopped when did that happen when you guys voted in the 20 a year ago yeah over a year ago yeah morning a year ago so and that's the worst part of that job frankly well that's okay I I mean it's not that many hours and I'm not really running for that position oh what you're not running for it you want to be the delinquent tax collector when everybody gets this tax bill next year no and I can't because I'm on the select one I know but I'm just saying that you mean we're not well that isn't fair right we ought to we ought to fix that yeah that was never a return exactly well that was oh so however many hours however many hours that is what you should get that money back yes I mean I think you should I mean I think the bigger question is going forward in the budget whoever is going to be doing that job what I wouldn't want to do that job burning less than that well I'm just saying so that's what it should be based on but because the motion was passed in that manner that that was an unintended consequence right no it's not okay now that we know about it we should that's not part of the budget okay what I want to I was picking up on the point that Sarah made is it okay for Mitch to have two other jobs doing the same thing it's fine for him to have other jobs we should not be paying a hundred percent of his education experience well I understand that but we don't know if we are well we just we are she gets the invoices so she knows he just signed up for a seminar that it's only a $60 seminar but that's the cost of the seminar so should it be split should we but what if he signed up for another seminar and submitted it well that's what I'm saying so the question is do we want to I'm not worried about the $60 that we should tell him he needs to split it up yeah but I think that to me that wasn't a budget item that is more something that just isn't right and I'm sure he you know he thought about it he realized it isn't right yeah I think that's right so during the how much rough I don't know but I'm not gonna get into it now would you get the number for me yeah seriously okay um so that is so zoning board of adjustment went up nine and a half percent planning commission um again theirs is up um due to the extra money they're asking for for the consultant when they presented their budget yeah when did they do their budget I think they were the very first ones to come in I gotta find my notes from that yeah very I mean the consultant the idea was if we're gonna do um zoning it makes sense to pay for a consultant yeah yeah right yeah so what's the what's the grand number now okay so the grand number now uh wait a second where do we go are we gonna bottom line last okay total budget a hundred one million three hundred and fifteen thousand oh sixty eight and that's a ten point seven one percent increase wow we saved a lot of money right over the back and we're spending it so that's I should have some of these firm numbers I hope by well I don't know okay so just quickly just eating in December and I know it's really late and everybody's tired I don't like the two percent I don't think that's enough I don't think it's enough for the row I don't think it's enough for anybody what's inflation at right now it's higher than that right around two right depending on which one you look at yeah 1.8 to 2.2 right yeah what what are you hearing that people are either asking for or getting I'm not married I mean I'm not hearing that's not a raise that's just that's just keeping people in the same place so to me I can tell you the road crew is going to push back big time on two percent I don't think it's fair or right to have it be two percent so I don't know what the magic number is I don't know if it's three percent four percent but it's no raise at two percent I mean the thing that worries me about the road crew is you know we don't want to be in a situation where we're training people and then losing them you know to water barrier or war town or weights field well I spent some I spent some time keep them here and I'll spend some more time looking at we have that compensation book over here okay and we are we are apparently from that from what I can tell much better off than we used to be so we're not way in the hole right we've been we've been doing some good work so yeah I don't want to propose anything crazy but I don't think two percent is enough why don't you plug it in at three percent three percent see what those show us what that's going to be but that would be helpful yeah you've got some people with some see with some tenure now don't you yeah yeah we do Paul just went to 10 years in October I think September or October well is there is there any way to even vary the percentage based upon some tenure very dangerous yeah I don't I'd rather not do that the base rate is is theoretically the differences in pay based on tenure so the percentage you do it by percentage it just continues that difference yeah I guess this is the way I would just write that is that yeah a minute so if you went to three percent it would bring the total budget to an 11.02 percent increase and if I'm sorry giving that number again three percent takes it from 10.71 11.02 11.02 okay these are just and I'm just doing this roughly here yeah um and if you did it at four percent I think it would bring the budget to um 11.34 percent that's it that's amazingly that goes up so little between yeah well we got a lot of other responses that's what that's what that means but all all I'm saying is uh I think I think three is now I'm not so sure it's too high Mary and I'm I want to I want to think about it and I want all of you to think about it you know when you're a guy when you get a when you get a one percent increase in your paycheck effectively yeah you lost money yeah it's been much you lost yeah you're going backwards yeah and again from the budget committee's perspective I nobody else has asked to get up one or two in the morning and go out there and get crap right well it isn't just it isn't just the road I mean the road crew is the is a big chunk of it but it isn't just the road crew it's all the people who are doing work for us every day and I don't I'm not I'm not advocating for for Mary I'm just saying I think we all need to think about it and I want to try and poke around and see what I could find and I would encourage everybody else to poke around and see what see if you could do a little poking around in the in the construction world and see what uh what's going on out there I'll do do a little poking around in the business world schools oh but they have contracts yeah although although most of their um custodial and maintenance people are not yeah they're often on the other contract so I just did a quick google on wage increases projected for private employees in 2020 and the magic number was 3.3 imagine that it is it is very well there's that there's there's the other problem if heaven forbid you lose somebody even if it's only even if it's only the portal yeah really scares apparently having a real hard time hiring for uh just lift operators and stuff we're normally there's you know Ben uh we were just talking about they can't hire they can't get people well I'm just saying I think that's that's the big elephant in the room as far as I'm concerned I mean we can we can make decisions about about other other budget items on here and and save a little money here and there but the payroll is one place I don't want to say no did you say you were going to send those out to us with the the changes yeah I can I yeah that would be great could you add 3.3 and 3.5 as well I think I think if she gives you three and four you can figure out yeah right in between those two figures you got it that's fifth grade math not high school that's harder than you think well whatever um I'm just saying with those numbers we can do the yeah but does every going back does everyone agree that we should correct that error and yes yes absolutely no question so you don't don't yes wave your hand like that no never should be corrected and it just blew by us I'm right I'm glad I was brought to our attention though thank you thank you Sarah yeah you're going to get a really nice gift now for Christmas very Christmas you learned it so budget committee thank you any any thoughts or comments other than you're all turning pale like we are well I mean now it's only 10 to 11 versus 23 bad I saw that number didn't I went oh my god I can't arrow like that comfortable with what I heard right good because to make an arrow like that then we feel better at the well I know it see I start out with that look at that now we're smiling there's going to be a little there's going to be a little bracket creep because there are a lot of these a lot of these blood items that Dorenda's put in there last year's like the insurance like some of the other things and I want to make it off a little bit so and I want those numbers that I gave you for the increases I want to make sure that carry forward like the associated because I don't know what to do without doing what needs to be done on roads I don't see any alternative no yeah I think with the weather roads are just they need more than they used to well and I meant what I said about these state mandates what the state is making us do makes it I don't know what the percentage is but it's got to be 40 or 50 percent more to line those ditches with stone than it is just oh yeah dig them out and I just see them yeah gotta be so that's a union number did you have any inkling they were going to order this I mean had they been talking about requiring the stones and the ditches for a number of years well no no this all came from this clean water act and then it's just got pushed down to the towns and I knew that they were coming in some direction but they're but it came from transportation and not from the environmental agency what's dc environmental conservation yeah because that's the clean water you know the clean water act is a is a good thing but it's a big expense and it just irritates the hell out of me that the state just you know pushes it off on the towns and cities and you know where's their share in this they clean water acts as a federal thing too yeah but I'm just saying you would think and I believe me I know the state spacing all of all the problems that we're facing around this table is state spacing so their budget situation is not is not it's not easy either well thank you during that for that so I think that's going to conclude our so so when do we want to finalize this budget first meeting in January when's our first meeting in January what's the date I can't do it on my yeah bring my I don't have my calendar seventh seventh and 21st I'll be here for the seventh excellent where are you going first I'll probably just stay home say I'm going to try and figure out how you're going to figure property tax bill I'm going to have hip surgery on the 15th what I said my brother had hip surgery today oh your brother was like you can't possibly have had hip surgery being there wow yeah so I guess what what I would suggest in the meantime is and I don't know how we want to do it but in terms of the budget committee if you have any any thoughts or ideas let us know we'll have a little quick update budget discussion yeah at our meetings in December as as Dorenda gets some of these some of these final numbers I don't think unless you want to I don't think you need to come to those meetings okay you're welcome anytime of course but if you plan on being here for the seventh and we'll keep be updated in the loop in the mean but seriously I I I I'm expecting that on the seventh that we're going to see the same in terms of what the road can't road people came up with the road people Paul came up with I'm expecting that number is going to be the same if it's going to be there's some significant reduction I'd like like to know in advance because we discover we discover an error or the sun but we're not in here which whatever we'll we'll try and keep you posted posted on on on what the changes are in the meantime and you know we'll we'll put sorry are you listening on the December meetings for a little budget update discussion in each and if you guys want to want to stop by for that you're more than more than welcome but mostly it's going to be putting in those replacing those plug numbers with real numbers yeah I mean I promise I've had people I promise people that stand up for trying to get something done this year and and and we've talked about it I won't say who I've talked to and and and you guys came in with what sounds to me like a reasonable something I can go back yeah I think you're doing the best they can and then I just hate to see those numbers get filled with yeah we hear you yeah thank you I we appreciate the support yeah thank you I know because somebody is about to be a dad oh well I'm going to be fat real fasting that's all right the time and I have one more thing under the treasure okay I included in your packets the closing letter from bachelor yes so I need just a motion to and have Peter sign it as I think Peter has I knew there was something I hadn't done I got the audit what do we have to read about you accepted it but I just I don't know if you need a motion to have somebody sign this and it doesn't say who needs to the uh this came addressed to Peter and the select board right I think it's your Peter anyway yeah and so just sign this as maybe Peter and I'll sign it so so we we did accept them so you don't need us to accept it again this is part of her communication it says that this she provided a recommendation letter and a management report of her findings and before she can release the top audit she needs a sign so I can have Peter sign it okay so this is perfect this is what we're looking at right yeah well this is there's two things there's two big there's only one with a signature one that requires a signature one is just a communication of her conclusions okay that's this and then this is the one that has to go back to her sign saying we were engaged with all that stuff okay is this a new requirement or did we did do this even when we had um we only had the acaboni back when I was on the board no this is a new and there's a whole bunch of new stuff coming around for next year so yeah this is all required for what controls over towns or controls I think that I think they're being more when you say they who's they the auditors they're being more diligent about what because of everything so they want to make sure that the select board knows what they want to make sure they don't get sued right because they they overlook something or the town raises something later okay so it's coming from the account so go ahead have you gone through have you read this over I've read it you know and some of it I you know she's not saying anything there's a couple of things I mean this one is what she found and her recommendations are all in here but she's basically said in her summary that we met all the criteria she found um that everything was in compliance with the recommended accounting practices and all of that and then she had some recommendations which I talked to patty and our new person that's going to be coming out and bored about and so yeah they just were minor ones you also as part of your treasurer report give us the trust funds I noticed down here it says there's a recreation trust fund for five thousand dollars well then why does um why does Mitch need to set that trust fund up that we're supposed to ask for permission for I don't know if he was asking to set it up or if he was asked to set it up whatever you have a fund whatever a fund is created facility maintenance is so it's different I mean yeah I don't know there's a recreation fund already so that's it you could probably just comment I mean that what the what the fund does as you know is allows you to rule over money from year over year right and so the voters have to say yes that's okay you can keep our money and keep using it a year after year so why couldn't he get money out of his recreation fund well I think he was trying to like when he said you'd have to ask him as far as what he wanted I think maybe let me look and see what he said he wanted to do with the money but if you deplete the fund you know I think his point was to put money into it but I think that I think what's in the fund has been historically used for equipment and this fund is for the buildings yeah I think it was for the building but I mean we need to pay attention the point is well taken we need to pay attention to these funds and he said it's for a grant application to do redo the tennis court that he wants but we already have it and this is this fund I mean mostly it was when we had that building well it's a wasn't it set up for that building that we used to have so we when they did I said government when they get the bill tell me what building we used to have we still have it I know but I mean we used to actually open it and use it and had a bathroom and you'd sell cocoa and stuff like quite well taken Mary I wasn't just storage right well couldn't he use this the fund we already have for that unless I don't know if there was anything when it was set up but that's what just we need to find out if there's anything this fund shall be used for us and such all right I mean a tennis court might fall underneath it better than an actual facility well it sounds like what he's probably talking about is refinishing the court so that's why he was looking to start building the fund because it's going to be far more than that's for a road's resurfacing I believe we've got a paving fund oh you're looking at the funds yeah I'm looking at the funds there's three thousand two hundred and twenty six thirty two we can certainly we can certainly take the 16 cents from the ancient roads right that's no problem they should be closed out or whatever but technically we have to be careful how we do it so you know that resurfacing fund I don't know what it is for the tennis courts I would bet it would be it's not for the road what else are you just call Bill Kalman I bet he'll confirm that that was exactly what that was for and it probably went in con in concert with the the federal grant that we got for building the wreck the wreck yeah we have four cents in the planning commission fund but 16 cents in the ancient roads I know of course back then you could build a road for 16 no no that was I think when we did our wasn't the ancient roads the study we did oh yeah yeah yeah right uh what's the town garage fund that's the one you guys started that's the one we started you know last year so that is that the one where we were doing that oil tank and stuff discussion for another time but I mean I have one building one building fun I mean I it doesn't make capital budget with him right I mean you know a plan all right let's approve our minutes how about that I'll make that motion I'm second losing my stuff here rapidly all in favor of approving the minutes from the November 5th 2019 select board minute meetings say aye aye any opposed okay Phil update on CB okay I'm just gonna really try to go very quickly CB fibers now move to meeting twice a month always on Tuesdays always on Tuesdays yes but things are moving moving along really quickly and really well right now we've passed I think just over a hundred thousand dollars that we've received in grants from various sources and another five six seven thousand dollars in donations it's been very hard to get get donations but we have just sent out an IRFP for a consultant who's going to do our feasibility study we've already collected an awful lot of data to give to them to start so they don't have to collect it all and then after the feasibility study we move on to the business plan that should put us in position to go to Vermont economic development council for about four point five million dollars for the first phase of the of the project and that I don't know that would allow us to build out maybe a hundred miles of fiber so I'm warning that range how long is going to take your consultant to come back with this plan I don't know yet until you know I haven't at the next meeting we're going to start vetting uh consultants um we've been conducting surveys in fact I just dropped some paper surveys off and and I started up hit people up if they haven't done it but so far middle sex by far has had the highest response rate of any of the was 17 I think that there has to you've been putting stuff out on yeah and I think that's yeah and I think if we can pick up some more through paper and then the uh what is it the infrastructure committee from uh what's next middle sex uh has offered to do some canvassing you know door to door so we'll see I want to why aren't the other people from the other towns doing what hey Mary that that's up to them I don't want I don't want to encourage them you guys when it comes comes down to it and in fact may make a difference as far as where where this starts yeah absolutely feasibility studies going to look at that and say hey middle sex is hot to do this we've got a lot of people who are interested uh well we've got people who are willing to sign up now um and that will you mean it means a lot in terms of focusing that it also means a lot when you go test somebody for 4.5 million dollars um so that's that's where that's at quick down dirty okay um computers I went um I did have still have a business account uh in Dell so I figured out my password again and went back in and and looked at this and then talked to Dorinda and uh Patty and Amy yesterday um what I was looking at basically for um for the Listers and for Patty are kind of mid-level business class machines so that have high reliability they're speedy they've got a lot of good storage and they're set up with Windows 10 and they have the office product fully installed we don't need professional we only need home and business nobody uses access so we don't don't need to pay for that um so I'm I'm looking at about 2,500 dollars a machine for those machines the one for Patty would be a little less maybe two grand because she does not need a keyboard mouse or monitor which she already has so that brings the price down a little bit there and then I expect laptops um because the Listers had asked for a laptop and we talked about replacing Dorinda's and I guess you and Amy decided you're gonna try to share well you can I think to have two portable laptops probably is crazy so there's no reason why not to use one she doesn't use hers at the same time I use mine um so I don't think you really need to at this point in time so at least for now until we get by the crunch and the problem of Windows 7 running out and the vulnerability so if they can work that out it saves us a chunk of money yep and again here I didn't I I looked at business class machines but I did not even really go to mid-level machines I just figured it's it's got to have enough storage needs to have office needs to be Windows 10 and it needs to be reasonably fast so we're talking about a machine that's probably 1200 dollars um so all in all we're what 25 45 55 5700 there's probably some shipping we're tax exempt so that wouldn't doesn't matter um and they will take a purchase order I can set up an account for us to and it's it's it's going to be touching go here for a little bit but because it'll take a few it takes probably 10 days by the time you put in an order to to get them delivered I did talk to techer they are willing to do the setup um for us and we can see how things go how much would they charge for that um I haven't had a chance to really follow that up um or find out hourly prices versus what we would would pay for RB so that's that email um I did some checking around with some of the discussions I originally had with tech group and figured out the best solution for us is to go to network solutions which is the oldest registrar and they sell email services and Sarah and I went through and made a list um and it depends on how we divide these up they sell their email addresses in blocks of 10 so I'm hoping we can keep it um around 30 as opposed to having to jump up and buy 40 um their email is um a dollar 42 a mailbox per month so for a year we're talking about I don't know three three forty or so and you pay it one shot you just they'll take a purchase order we pay it one time three hundred and forty dollars yeah um because we don't need all the stuff that RB was talking we don't need the office you know in the cloud product we just want email the only other thing we need is archiving we've got our own server and again rather than paying monthly or yearly fees we can buy um we can buy an archiving product that's I think around $250 and we install it and it's there and we archive onto our server but then that's backed up to the cloud with whoever we're using for so it's redundant okay so I think that gets us um gets us the email gets us compliant with archiving um for a lot lot less than go in the office 365 way less way less yeah and everybody they were talking what were they talking for a mailbox for a month 15 box per person or something yeah yeah yeah it's like did you what about this computer oh yeah okay um yeah and that computer the one that nobody uses oh well oh it does use a lot of who uses it all the researchers yeah and you know Mitch will use it but people come in when they do a search that's that is connected to our land records oh okay it's connected to the online portal to the right so yeah that computer has significant problems but one of the things I was thinking about if we can actually make this work and I don't know whether or not we can would then be to take and repurpose Patty's laptop uh over there as the public computer and see if there's some way in hell we can actually put Windows 10 on that on that machine um maybe although I don't think maybe I'll have to come someday when I have time I'll come down and sit and look at the spectrum although I got thinking after well you and I were talking about um netbooks not netbooks Chromebooks like that we just use a Chromebook I mean you can buy a Chromebook for 200 bucks there's no reason why I mean RB comes in this old they are always working on that computer but they don't have to work on that computer if we have a Chromebook that's less expense there too right no no antivirus so so wait a minute so slow down yeah I'm tired yeah yeah so instead of having a real computer there we have a Chromebook so what happens when RB comes in here well they're gonna have to use your computer or somebody else's no they go in there to service that computer they probably when they come in here and get on the network I'm assuming they get on with their own laptops well they get on remotely on on Wednesday on Wednesday nights remotely because I always come in and and RB has been on that computer I don't know what they're doing but here's my only question if I have a Chromebook there can we print to that computer sure it's on the network that's all it's the access there's nothing it's not like maracas it's not like you're computing it's not like you're computing all you're doing is going online to this 2020 perfect vision land records and accessing that that labor and that's all in the cloud right that's all the cloud that's all online so everything basically is browser based on a chromebook so if you want to get check your email anybody could check their email if they want they just sign on using a browser they don't they don't yeah they're just checking the land records and printing stuff off that's the only way they use it when that first was set up there was kind of a we're providing to the people of middle sex a public computer no one's ever used it like that in the seven years that's what I thought nobody's ever no but that is the access for land records people come and they search this is what Lee's doing archiving all the way back yeah so they can go all the way back to 2000 and then you know print off there yeah survey maps too okay so that might be the cheapest way to go I mean that's cheaper than buying a copy of windows alone probably costs 200 how much about would you say like 150 to 200 bucks yeah probably just for the just for windows and then it wouldn't have office so I mean and again you know there's no reason to have this that might be the way to go with that one is just spend another couple hundred bucks and well let's order up to three computers that we know we're really have to have right off okay that one is a windows 7 too though I just want you to know yeah but a chromebook I mean the way to do that someday I'll just go up to best buy and see what the best deal is and just buy we just have to get acs to give us to the access actually I think they're on sell at Costco right now I think I got the flyer okay daughter wants one yeah they are all through the whole year yeah they're really cheap and okay so I'm going I'm going to go in and set up an account for the town of middle sex and get those specs out we have a town credit card uh well down let us do a pio yeah so I'll put all the specs and they'll look at everything they'll tell me what the shipping is I'll get a final quote I'll give that to you so that we can get a pio and then I probably just have to scan it and send it in to them and you know we'll have that stuff here sometime because it's going to be you know it's going to be Christmas and yeah it's going to be right I mean it's already Christmas right if you go on any of the store so okay so with the you know it's not going to be catastrophic if we don't have it the first of January but we need to have it ASAP yeah exactly happens on the first of January no longer supporting windows 7 but it still works it still works but there be no more security patches no more right and immediately you know well immediately the hackers will be out in four or four on January 2nd okay so like I have one in my office I barely use it but what should I do get off it five new computer well you can you can upgrade but you're going to you're going to spend you're going to spend five hundred dollars to upgrade your machine if you even can't yeah it's all it's not even worth it you know get rid of it take a hard drive out hit it with a hammer yeah and yeah go to Costco or Best Buy and just buy a decent machine the the email stuff I'll I'll I'll just set that up and I'll just buy those and I'll just give you a bill for reimbursement so I guess we'll just use the company or off I'm down and get that because it should be on um put it up on automatic pay or something can't you do that or you pay all you pay him once a year yeah yeah which is why I think how they're able to do that kind of pricing you know they don't want to be billing you know just like you know yeah 300 bucks it's you know cheap enough then I can start setting those up I just decided I told sorry I just decided I'm gonna just do do this myself so I'll set everybody up with an email address and I'll sign everybody a temporary password and then I'll I'll get a sheet that just says this is how you sign on to your new email this is what we expect you to do when so when would they when do you think all this would be functions up and well I should I should have the email stuff starting to move you know within a couple of weeks as far as putting that together and then once that's done and we get the computer set up um you know we've laid this that's my um it's a no the archiving stuff I you know we've done this long I'm not going to worry about having that done tomorrow but as soon as we get to the point I can get it's going to take a lot you know to get people using their new emails and get them distributed I mean there's not going to be a lot of it's going to be a gradual build-up in activity yeah yeah yeah it will it will so anyway that's where we stand and it'll keep it'll it'll keep emails for some period or time right without the archive yeah I have to go back in it like probably probably keeps it years worth or something without the archive probably yeah yeah so yeah there's no right so who's the first person that's going to want to see all of our emails Peter if you guys are done can I just bring up a really quick issue really fast yeah you're going to be buying the first round to drink at the new at the new um yeah I had a complaint from a resident in Putnamville the same person who is has been concerned about speeding not albie the woman her name just slips my mind but she asked me to express concern about the hitching posts that are going up on route 12 uh she the one has been placed across from her house and she does not she never asked for that she doesn't want it she has some safety concerns and she wanted the town to get involved as far as I could see it really wasn't a town issue it's not any it's a state highway and sorry I really just want to get this into the record that I brought this concern to the board yeah okay so I brought this concern to the board hold on just hold on one second all right and I agree it's not a town issue okay so so somebody has put the stitching post on their property it's not they put it across the street on uh in in the state's right of way and the state gave permission to do that it's been promoted it's promoted of uh of this of this program I think they're the ones who're giving the grant no yeah oh yeah yeah I think so they're the ones who gave the five hundred dollars yeah right so what's the problem is she thinks people are going to be stopping there they're going to be what's her problem well she has some concerns that I probably don't want to get on a camera but I um but just because I think it's a safety issue and so she has safety concerns she says I never asked for this this Ho Chi Hitching she's afraid people will be there they'll break in her house or something like something along that line so you should go to the state of Vermont I told her that and I asked her also to talk to Phoenix who is running this program you know deal with the people I'm just saying she wanted to bring to the select board she said I want to appear to the select board I said I will talk to them about it but right now I don't see this as a town issue here we are talking to the select board asking if they think it's a town issue or anything the select board has any control over let's see you I say it's not our fight yeah okay that's fine yeah I just I don't think it is the town didn't mean to stay highway no yeah I understand that but you know she brought the her safe speeding concerns to us and the that took some action so I think she's thinking well I'll bring this concern and have the so that's what I'm saying a little different yeah a little different okay right I'm just gonna say it's different okay that's fine I just want to get into the break