 Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2016. Brought to you by Red Hat. Now here are your hosts, Stu Miniman and Brian Graceley. Welcome back, happy to welcome back to the program Ashish Badani who is the Vice President and General Manager of the Cloud Business Unit and OpenShift, thanks so much for joining us again. Thanks for having me on. All right, so talking a lot about containers this week and of course this has an impact on what happened at OpenShift. Give us the cliff notes, I think some product names got renamed and set some new announcements. So we announced the fact that we rebranded OpenShift Enterprise to OpenShift Container Platform, announced a local version focused at developers called OpenShift Container Local, as well as a version more focused towards initial POC or running in a staging or testing environment called OpenShift Lab Edition. So that's, if you will, the full portfolio of our offerings. We also, of course, have OpenShift running in the public cloud, but two weeks ago we announced OpenShift Online, the next generation, focused on getting a container initiative or Docker format-based containers running in a multi-generated public cloud, as well as OpenShift Dedicated, which is our offering managed by Red Hat for our customers that's also available generally on AWS. So yes, a full portfolio of offerings on private, public, or hybrid cloud. All right, so, Chef, bring us into some of those customer conversations you're having. I expect most customers are talking about containers, but, you know, and there's got to be a spectrum there, but what's the typical customer? Where are they at? You know, where are some of your early adopters? Yeah, great question. So we've got a lot of customers who are undergoing what I'll call the digital transformation journey, and, you know, we have our industry analysts called it all manner of different things, but the notion that customers believe that they have to be extremely competent at building software and managing it and have that be a core skill of theirs. Most recently we announced agreement with BBBA, which is a large bank based out of Spain, but a global bank that's undergoing this journey, recognizes that their competition is not just existing banks, but also more and more emerging companies, you know, the emerging, you know, FinTech companies, for example, and they're doing a transformation, taking advantage of OpenShift and OpenSec and CloudForms to build the next generation platform. So we definitely see that with what I'll call the more forward-leaning companies, but then in general conversations that I have with customers around the world, whether they be in North America and Europe, in Asia or in Latin America, are all interested in going down this container journey mostly because they're interested in adopting, you know, better practice around DevOps, becoming more agile, more efficient. Yeah, I'm wondering, can I help unpack for us a little bit that kind of Paz containers, I even think, you know, Docker was a side project from, you know, a Paz company. And today I look at a lot of the Paz discussions, it seems containers has kind of integrated in, you know, how much those merge and you know, what is that transformation that's happening? Yeah, there's a lot of conversation around, you know, what Paz is and what it was and where it's going and, you know, Caz or containers as a service and kind of how that's evolving. You know, from our perspective, this is a natural evolution. You know, we've used containers from the first day that we launched OpenShift in the public cloud. We just happened not to call it containers, it wasn't, you know, portable or a file format or a packaging format that was widely accepted and understood by a variety of different organizations that they agreed upon, but we've been using container-based technology. In fact, it's, you know, part of Linux for many, many years, right? Containers are Linux processes. So that journey has taken us to the point where people are realizing the value of what containers can do. And they also like the notion that they can have a platform that's maybe not as opinionated as Paz is like the way we knew them used to be. The ability to kind of have, if you will, a gradient of opinions, right? For the cases where you need to have a strong one to be able to use that, be able to build modern 12-factor cloud-native stateless applications, but then also to have the same platform be able to support existing or stateful applications, you know, is a powerful idea. And we find most of our large customers really value that. Yeah, OpenShift has been sort of front and center. Jim talked about it first day. Paul talked about it, lots of demos. Talked about it with financial analysts. One of the things we really like we've been asking for companies to do is be more transparent about the business. You guys put some numbers out there. Those numbers roughly put you about first in the marketplace. Talk about the growth of the business. Talk about customer adoption. Where is the cloud business going? Yeah, we feel pretty proud of, you know, the journey we've taken with OpenShift and the amount of interest we've had from enterprise customers. You know, it's kind of just great to see so many large customers at an event like this supporting it. You know, we have a lot of them speaking as well. So I encourage for the folks who are here to go visit with the various customers who are presenting here. Just as from a reporting perspective, you know, we're clubbed within the application development or the emerging technology segment of Red Hat's business. And that's growing at obviously much faster rate than Red Hat's existing flagship Linux business. That being said, the cloud business within that, you know, are growing even faster rates. So they'll have adoption level of interest that we have with customers globally. It's just phenomenal. Yeah, you talked a little bit about cloud native applications. You talked a little about, you know, legacy or stapler. What's a typical customer's journey? Is there engaging with OpenShift and with your team? How much is new? How much is trying to move legacy? What's that mix look like or their journey? Yeah, so one of the things that we found and especially in conversation with many of our field teams is that, you know, the journey that customers take and essentially also interaction that our field has with customers is a different one than the typical one that Red Hat has had in the past, right? So in the past, you know, if you have a conversation around Renner Press Linux, you know, you go talk to an admin team, you convince them, they start using it, more applications land on it over a period of time, the state grows, right? So that's a good thing for the customer and obviously in turn it's a good thing for Red Hat. What happens in the model that we have today, right? That there's a journey that both the customer and, you know, essentially our interactions with them have to sort of travel a different path, which is, if you've gone off and convinced an operations team and said, look, this is, you know, extremely powerful platform to run your container scale, you can manage them, you can orchestrate them and the operators start using them, they've got to go off and convince the dev teams to go land some applications on it. On the flip side, if you've gone off and convinced the development teams and said, look, this is a really great platform integrated with all these, you know, tools, we give you CI CD, we enable, you know, real dev ops, you've got to come into your organization, that's fantastic, but now they've got to go off and convince the ops teams. So this whole sort of notion of dev ops, which by the way, you know, most of our customers, you know, is a journey that they're on, you know, requires for us to have wider and deeper conversations than we've ever had in the company. Yeah. I think if we look at your announcements this week, you've got, you know, containers on a desktop, you've got integration with developer tools, testing environments, now you've got it in production and in private and in public cloud. How important is it for that sort of end to end picture for a customer? How much have they been pushing you to give them all of that capability and consistency? Most customers are really interested in having those choices, even if they're not necessarily, you know, going all in into the public cloud today, having the option, having the confidence that OpenShift Online is run in the public cloud managed by us, having the fact that OpenShift Dedicated is available, you know, for them, even though they might be using the private cloud, you know, is extremely powerful. Other announcement that we had earlier this week that was really great was, you know, Microsoft.NET Core being supported on RHEL and OpenShift and they're really interested in being able to, again, have one platform that can, you know, intake lots of different languages, lots of different runtime and applications. Shish, I wonder if you can just give us your view on kind of the broader application shift, you know, what percentage of customers are, you know, really ready for kind of the new applications and what about the applications that aren't going to get re-platformed yet? How does that fit into the OpenShift discussion? Yeah. Look, in as much as easy to say there's a revolution to be had, you know, revolutions are hard, as we all know, there's an evolution that most of our customers are on, right? And what we do with them is just best try to understand, you know, where the low-hanging fruit is, right? If someone comes to us and says, look, I've got a bunch of mainframe, I'm trying to move it all over, containerize it around your platform, we'll be the first ones to say, you know, let's start somewhere else, right? That being said, you know, we've got a lot of customers that, for example, Swiss Rail is a great example of this, right? You know, it's written an app that, you know, is running today, it's a mobile app, right, and takes advantage of OpenShift on the backend, and you know, people can do reservations and look-up schedules and so on, and that's a great application for them to be running on OpenShift. So we will work along with obviously our services team and our partners to identify what those, you know what I'll call low-hanging fruit are, and get started there. And then over a period of time, we move other things over. We've got customers moving, for example, Java-E applications over, and we fully support that in our platform. Yeah, Paul Cormier made a pretty bold statement this morning. He said, look, you know, everybody is now chasing Red Hat in terms of containers because containers is a Linux game. Yep. You know, being that Red Hat Linux is sort of the foundation of OpenShift, does that put you in that same position? Everybody's now going to be chasing you from a container platform perspective? Well, I'm not going to go contradict what Paul said, but it's not always great to be the one with the target on your back, right? So I think a big part of, you know, what makes Red Hat Red Hat is, you know, we pride ourselves in being the underdog, right? We pride on disrupting existing practices or existing high-cost proprietary software and coming in with a much better lower cost and a more innovative alternative. I think what we are trying to make sure the market understands is that a lot of what's happened from a container perspective is fundamentally rooted in being able to deliver, implement, and manage large-scale Linux systems. And we've got a lot of experience with that. We're not the only ones with that experience, right? You know, Google's got a lot of experience with that as well, as well as many other companies. But what you want to make sure that people understand is that when you have a provider who has that level of expertise, who has that level of ability to go manage and secure your infrastructure, you're better off working with them. So Ashish, the container and the orchestration ecosystems that's changing so fast, as you look out kind of the next six to 12 months, what kind of things should users be looking for in kind of the maturation of that whole environment and the cloud platform environment? I feel like we're running really, really fast and we can barely keep up with ourselves, right? So I think it's a real challenge also for customers. So one of the things that I think you'll see all of us actively do in the communities, right? Whether it's the Kubernetes community or the Docker OCI community or any other community that's out there is trying to balance the amount of innovation that we have from a feature perspective and also a level of stability and robustness to the underlying platform, right? Just to make sure that customers that can adopt these platforms and they can deploy them at scale. So I think one of the things that you'll see is that sort of maturation that will sort of just naturally happen with the technology platform, that's one. I think another thing that you'll see increasing amounts of is the ability of being able to have more integration points across what's delivered, right? So we see a lot of what I'll call point product or point vendor solutions coming on the market, right? That's solving very, very specific things. And so in as much as it's easy for a customer to say, well, I'm going to pick X, Y, and Z technology and put them all together, that becomes hard over a period of time, right? There's an integration challenge that comes about, which is by the way the one thing they don't want because they've been dealing with those for years. So I think the ability for a provider to start saying, look, I'm going to think a lot about the APIs that I provide, how I interface with other technologies, is going to be a powerful thing. And then additional services, I think, will start coming on the platform, right? So whether it's from us or from our partners around data services, analytic services, and so on, it's going to be increasingly important. Yeah. You talked about there's a lot of OpenShift customers here, there's a lot of container customers here. What's one lesson that from a BBVA, from an Amadeus, from somebody that you could pass on to maybe a potential customer or potential developer that says, this is a great first step. This is going to help you be successful and be a building block. So those customer names, whether it's Amadeus or BBVA, may or may not be representative of every customer that we see in the marketplace, right? Mostly because obviously they're a large organization and very advanced, sophisticated amount of skills and the infrastructure that they have in place. But I like to think of them as much customers as their partners of ours, right? So Amadeus has been on the journey with us ever since we released OpenShift Version 3, the first version based on Docker and Kubernetes based technologies. BBVA and us have been working for a while through this journey that they're going through. And so I guess my one piece of advice or recommendation to users of our technology is, consider that we want to work with you, right? In as much as you're learning a lot of things, we want to make sure that everything that we learn, we pass on to you and we kind of get your feedback, incorporate that in everything that we do and then build this technology and solve these problems together. Great, all right. So I just want to give you the last word. People come away from Red Hat Summit, talk about the growth of OpenShift and where you see things going, right? So from our perspective, I think the biggest thing for people to understand is that this is now all real. Adoption, the interest, the value that containers bring to the enterprise. And we're encouraging people to go off and start testing it out, start figuring out what are the appropriate applications to land here. Having said that, recognize that this will not solve every problem that you have, right? What we're trying to do is provide you one part of the solution, right? Which is the product, technology, and the platform, right? There's still a lot of work to be done to evolve, if you will, your architecture or your processes that go around this, right? So if you're thinking about, you know, microservices-based architectures, right? Which applications do you pick? Which ones do you refactor? Which ones do you build in this way? If you're thinking about DevOps, right? What organizational changes do I need to go through? Do we have the culture? Do we have the skills? And the point is, you know, you're not there to solve all these problems by yourself. You can work together with them. But those are important, too, as we try to address them. All right, well, Shesh Padani really appreciate the updates as they move to the container platform strategy evolves. We'll be back with much more coverage here from Red Hat 2016. You're watching theCUBE, right?