 This is State Tech Hawai'i. The community matters here. A noa'i kākō. I'm Kaui Lukas, host of Hawai'i Is My Mainland. My guest today, Jeffrey Kim, is joining us from the continent via Skype. Jeffrey's part of my recent series providing media exposure to some of the very active members of the Sierra Cove of Hawai'i. He will be a guest host on Hawai'i Is My Mainland in the near future. He's one of six people from Hawai'i to have participated in the recent political candidate training by the Progressive Change Campaign Committee. The PEECCC, as it's known, engages in electoral and issue advocacy, work on democracy, as well as economic populist priorities. Jeffrey is also the Energy Committee Co-Chair of the Sierra Cove of Hawai'i. Hello, Jeffrey. Thanks for calling in. Hello. So tell us about the training. Meeting Senator Elizabeth Warren, all that good stuff. Well, I guess I technically met her, but met her from 300 steps away. But yeah, it was still very exciting just to be able to see her be able to speak and see Pete Ellison speak and meet so many, you know, I guess like-minded people, if you will, in the same room at the same time for several days. And yeah, that's part of the reason I brought up the training as a talking point with this show that's titled, you know, Organizing 101. And specifically about transformational versus transactional relationships is because, yeah, especially being at this training, you know, this is kind of one of my first times seeing so in-depth and nuts and bolts of what it is to run a campaign. And yeah, it made me think a lot about just organizing and movement building overall. And yeah, and thoughts that came up in terms of how I feel about the current process of campaigning for elections. Jeffrey, set the stage a little bit for us. You were at this conference, and they brought you guys in from all over the place. Yeah, yeah, there's folks from, you know, a lot of folks from New Jersey for some reason specifically. But, you know, I believe all the state were represented. I don't think I heard of anybody from Alaska being there or not, but yeah, pretty much everybody from some state. And the common denominator was that all of you are going to do what? Most likely, but not officially everybody, run for office, yeah, from everything from, you know, something like a state legislator to, you know, all the way up to Congress. So, yeah. So there's, there were, you were one of six people from Hawaii. So tell us about Hawaii's team and what, what do you think was special about Hawaii, if anything, in, in our participation in this? Okay, so yeah, in terms of the teammates who went with us, it was, it was myself, Representative Chris Lee, Representative Nicole Lohan, Representative Kaniela Ng, and also Kaniela Ng's wife, Kara, who, you know, leads the nonprofit and also some campaign efforts herself, and also actually a good friend of mine, Ian Ross, who yeah, is as well most likely going to be running for office. Yeah. So that was like a very dynamic team. Looks like you guys probably could have had some fun. Yeah, there's, there's, there's some pretty good times that we're able to have together. Yeah. And that was something actually kind of interesting. I feel like, you know, yeah, because we, we were one of the few groups that everybody knew everybody, you know, in from that state, you know, like even, even smaller states, you know, in terms of the progressive community, if you will, like Arkansas or something, like, there's only about like four or five people who came from there, but none of them knew each other, or I don't know, I just didn't really see that with any of the other states. So that, that did make me feel a little, yeah, yeah, it was, it was right there. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. So we're doing our Hui thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, I'd often see, you know, most, yeah, a lot of times we'd be sitting together for a lot of things too. So, so that's good. Yeah, I think also, I don't think there were too many other states that had currently elected officials present. So that was really, I think, especially kind of, I don't know, especially empowering for me to be able to have that much sort of personal time with, with some of our legislators and, and yeah, be able to talk really in-depth shop that, you know, I don't think I'd always had the time to do or opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. Three of them. That's, yeah. Okay. So, so talk to us about that, that part of the transactional versus transformational that, that was really made an impact on you. Sure. So real quick, just to kind of distinguish between the two words. This is kind of a way of thinking that I take from the Sierra Club organizing manual. And, yeah, and the way I've internalized is basically, you know, a transactional relationship in the relation of the subject of organizing, you know, is, yeah, it's like, like, it's almost a customer and like, you know, business kind of dynamic. It's like, hey, I need something from you. You know, okay, great. You've given me the thing I wanted, you know, thanks. See you later. Have a nice day almost, you know, I mean, that's an extreme way to think of it, but, you know, versus like a transformational relationship would be so like it like, let's say like taking an example from like, you know, running a chapter of a nonprofit, you know, like, let's say you needed, you know, you needed, you needed some like work done on your Facebook page or something, you know, instead of necessarily just going in and being like, hey, you know, like we need XYZ things done, can you please do those for us, you know, really start more from like, hey, you know, what is it that you would really like to be able to gain out of being here, you know, and like, and how, you know, can we help develop skills that, you know, can help you get there. And like, for instance, you know, like, you know, sometimes like what there's a chapter of a nonprofit called Citizens Climate Lobby, you know, that I was, yeah, you know, I was taking some leadership roles and for a while. And, you know, sometimes people would actually just be like, hey, like, is there you know, what do you want us to do, you know, or whatever, and I'd be like, more interested in just wanting to know, you know, like, not so much like, yeah, you know, what do you want, you know, what I can just tell you to do rather than, you know, how we can grow more as a team, you know, because it's not only, you know, for an, I feel like an ethical standpoint of being able to, you know, further empower people as much as possible, because that's what I think is the job of an organizer, you know, versus necessarily a leader, which is something I'd really like to talk about as, you know, two words juxtaposed against each other in a little bit, too. But yeah, I feel like as an organizer, your main job is actually to empower other people, not necessarily a lead, you know, I mean, like, certainly, you know, like, I think, you know, you got to have a team captain in many situations, but, you know, that's basically, you know, how the way I feel about those two words actually, leadership versus organizer, you know, leader, because literally by definition, it implies followers, you know, and yeah, and I just don't think number one, that's a vertical relationship. Yeah, it's, you know, and it's, it doesn't really help develop that person, you know, just to follow orders and so forth. And also, yeah, I think, you know, for me, you know, maybe this is a little bit cynical, but I feel like I think a lot about, especially after having been to this conference, you know, which is not hopefully to be reflective of how I thought about the people there so much, but just thinking about the candidacy process, you know, maybe think of a quote from a Batman movie, actually, this is the Dark Knight, it's a sequel to the first Christopher Nolan one, but in it, this character who actually is a, you know, a politician in it, he's actually kind of supposed to play sort of the archetype of like the white knight, you know, and the really infallible politician almost, you know, and the guy who really is doing it for the people, but, you know, he even said in that movie, he said, hey, you know, in this city, you either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. And yeah, it's kind of pretty like, whoa, poetic stuff there, huh, you know, but, you know, and I'm not saying that like that's, you know, 100% true, but I think we've seen that happen throughout history many, many times, you know, people who started out really great, and then, you know, power gets their head, or people don't want them there, you know, and XYZ, and just, and for me, like beyond ethics, it's just as a, you know, as a quote, you know, strategic mindset, if you will, in terms of fighting for your cause, you know, and really trying to make change happen, you know, I think we need to, we need to, you know, especially these days, I think we really need to know how to empower ourselves more than necessarily, you know, just follow somebody, and so anyway, I'll stop right there for now. Well, I have a little question before we take a break. I am always interested in sort of the weather report, and I don't mean what's happening in the clouds, but how did it feel in Washington D.C. to you, and to be being part of this progressive event? Did you, was there, what did it feel like? I don't want to lead you, just Vanilla. Okay, sure. Well, yeah, one quick thing, I actually really noticed just feeling different, for sure, once I actually, you know, stepped off the plane and got in D.C., and just, I actually talked a lot about this with, you know, friends I made on the trip who are from there, and especially the person who was housing me at the time, like, you know, I was shocked because, you know, having been in, even though I am from the mainland originally, like, I haven't been back in a long time, and yeah, and just people just started smiling quite as much as you are, as people you're here, I feel like, and yeah, and just, and I don't know, I, but, you know, at the same time, like, you know, outside of, I feel like all within, like, Capitol Hill area, and like, and on the metro and stuff like that, but yeah, when I was out in, like, the suburbs where I was staying and just the grocery store and so forth, like, people were really, you know, were very, very nice actually, it was a really great community, but I don't know, you know, from my own observations and just talking to people, yeah, who, you know, work and live there, like, I think there is, you know, kind of a different level of pressure in many ways, even though, you know, we certainly face a lot of pressure on our own for economic reasons and others, but yeah, so that's something I, and I felt so grateful actually that, like, you know, that's something I actually, you know, literally this thought ran through my head when I, you know, was here for the first few months, and just thinking like, wow, like, you know, it's just one of the most expensive places to live in the country, you know, in terms of cost of living and, you know, but the job opportunities don't, you know, always seem to meet the demands in terms of the cost of living here, you know, quite like New York or San Francisco, you know, which are the one of three, you know, two of three of the cities which were included in terms of highest cost of living, and just the fact that people here though, like, you know, are, you know, some of the friendliest I've ever, you know, met, and like, I've lived all over around the country, and I would almost assume that it'd be more of a rat race, you know, here than anywhere else, because it's like, right, you know, just the odds stacked up in that way, so that's, yeah, just that's something, you know, specific to Hawaii that I really thought a lot about when some, yeah, when it's getting back to the mainland, and, and, yeah, so, yeah. So definitely we're going to take a little break, and then talk some more. Welcome to Sister Power. I'm your host, Sharon Thomas Yarbrough, where we motivate, educate, empower, and inspire all women. We are live here every other Thursday at 4 p.m., and we welcome you to join us here at Sister Power. Aloha and thank you. You know, the, the kind of things that we're going to talk about in training. Today we have Jeffrey Kim, who is joining us from the North American continent somewhere, and recently he participated in a candidate training in Washington D.C. One of the things that Jeffrey and I have been talking about is this idea of transactional versus transformational relationships in organizations. So we're going to go a little deeper on, on that. And I, it's always helpful to have very concrete examples. And so, Jeff, I was wondering if you can kind of hone in on why, why changing the way political organizations at this grassroots level need to be focusing on the transformational? Like, what does that mean? Yeah, for sure. So just to put it into definitions, the way I see it, you know, as I said earlier, like, you know, transactional, it's, you know, thinking kind of like that business mindset. It's like, I, I want something from you and hopefully I'll be able to get it from you, you know. And then once I've gotten it, it's like, all right, cool. That's, thanks for doing business. And then, you know, transformational, yeah, it's, we're like, I don't know. I mean, just to be really casual, but being real people, you know, and people who care about each other and care about each other's growth. And in a specific, like, organizing context, I feel like, yeah, you know, really spending the time and, and the energy to try to empower others and, and help others empower themselves and other people and so forth. You mentioned in the context of the Sierra Club that this was something that, that you felt they were very good at. Yeah. And it's, well, at the very least it's, it's in, you know, yeah, it's, it's literally the part of the official organizing manual. So, yeah, and I think that that philosophy is, is a part of the Sierra Club mindset in practice as well. Okay. So, did you have a chance to indulge one of your other great interest, jazz, while you were out there? Sorry, I just had to ask. Oh, okay. I actually did. Yeah. Yeah, I went to this, yeah, something that I think, yeah, we probably should start soon here is a monthly jazz open Mike's jazz specific. So, like, all the, you know, all the 1% of people who play jazz, you know, in the world come out for that one day, you know, together to, to drink and play for each other. And yeah, that was really, that was a surprise and also very refreshing. So, yeah, so I did get to play a little bit. Yeah. Cool. All right. So back to politics. Sorry, just had to. No, no, no worries. So as far as the, the decisions that were made, I don't know that there were particular decisions made, but for those of you who are in the training, can you talk about some of those personal transformations, maybe that happened with the participants or how the growth was able to happen as a, as a result of attending this conference and being with, I mean, people like Elizabeth Warren, I listened as you live streamed from Facebook, her talk, and I thought it was fantastic. I mean, just over Facebook, but I imagine being in the same room, there was something to it. Yeah. Well, just in terms of some of the just experiences overall and the feelings, like, yeah, that it was extremely, you know, I, yeah, you know, I don't think this word gets used enough in talking about what I'm trying to talk about. But, you know, I think it is the kind of the most pro reward, you know, solidarity, basically, you know, just feeling that that sense of just everybody being on the same page, not only in ideas, you know, of course, you know, progressive is still a pretty wide range of term, you know, and but still like just not only the same values, but also the same, I don't know, excitement and drive, if you will, like everybody, they're really, really wanted the things they believed in, you know, and yeah, I, I really feel that way. So if you could think of the maybe top three agenda items that you heard a lot in that room, what would they be? Oh, interesting, top three. You know, actually, the ones I remember, because there was just so many different conversations and sessions and so forth, was actually about the internet, you know, and internet privacy, and, and just making sure that we keep the internet as democratic as possible overall, you know, especially with, yeah, I mean, there's, there's just been, I don't, I haven't been following very well, but I, you know, I get plenty of alerts, you know, every week, just on bills that, you know, certainly for the progressive community are threatening to, you know, that desire to keep the internet as democratic as possible and so forth. So that was one thing that I realized I don't think enough about and, you know, but I certainly think is, is needs the attention. And another thing, you know, it was interesting, the way the person put it, one of the panelists was, you know, it, so, yeah, I don't know, for me that it's, it's basically a fact that, you know, with the amount of time we have left with climate change, you know, and, and being able to address it, you know, properly, it's, it's, it's a pretty, you know, all hands on deck scenario, you know, and like, what is that timeline in your mind, Jeff? Sorry? If you had to put a timeline on that, what would it be? What it is in your mind? What, what kind of a timeline are we dealing with in climate change? Okay, sure. Well, there, you know, luckily, University Oxford actually has a website that, you know, basically tries to answer that question specifically. It's called trillionton.org, tons spelled the British way, but at any rate, it's a carbon, it's a ultimately estimated, but, you know, it's a, nonetheless, it's a calculator for the amount of carbon dioxide we're putting into the air, you know, like as we speak. And, yeah, and they even have a prediction, and it's, by 2037, we'll hit the two degree limit, which is, you know, basically, to put it really casually, like the point of no return, if you will, you know, basically, we do not want to pass the two degree limit. That's, that's just the main kind of thing to know there. And, yeah, so that's 20 years, based on just a carbon calculator, but sorry, I just want to throw this last part in. But methane, you know, there is no calculator for that one out that I've been able to find. And, you know, I want to play it safe and say that methane is at least half the problem. And so then, yeah, if we're going to play it safe, 10 years. Well, that methane bit is the sobering one. I don't know why we don't hear that talked about a little more widely. When I had Stuart Scott on my show, he said the same thing off camera. I'm like, Stuart, why didn't you say that on camera? And he's like, it's so scary. I was like, oh no. Yeah, I mean, it is scary. And I mean, like, you know, without without sounding negative, it's, you know, we should be scared. I think we should be more scared than we are for as a population overall. But, you know, that's not to say that we, you know, we shouldn't act towards solutions, because yeah, we need to. But anyway, the reason I brought up climate change was in terms of answering a question about the conference, you know, like as one topic. Yeah, that's something that resonated certainly well with the room when this one speaker really, you know, passionately was kind of like, how do I put it? Basically, that, you know, that in so many ways, a lot of sort of the, you know, the messaging and the kind of, yeah, the messages that were being sent over the last couple of decades about climate change and what we can do about it, you know, have been mostly about individual action, you know, and certainly for myself, you know, that's a mindset where I've been for a long time is like, yeah, like we clearly are beyond the point of individual action alone, at the very least, being able to save the day, you know. And at this point, you know, for me, it's, yeah, it really did, you know, strike, I resonate, you know, something inside of myself that I've felt very passionately about is that just, you know, one issue I do see, you know, and I'm not trying to criticize anybody, but is that, you know, we, yeah, we, it's, it's, you know, I feel like just to really address the climate crisis properly, we need to think as big picture in the long term as possible, you know, while also, you know, knowing the most immediate dangers as well. But I think that too often, people have the right intentions when they, you know, try to help out to protect the environment, but, you know, to use kind of a nature-themed metaphor, you know, I think sometimes people see trees too much instead of forest. And, and yeah, and so that is a topic that did come up, sort of, put a little bit, a little bit more, less diplomatically than I'd put it, but yeah. Jeffrey, I can't help asking you, I just crossed my mind that you are in the middle of the continental North America right now in the U.S. You're not at home in Hawaii, but there's a lot of talk here about North Korea, which you probably know about. What's it like where you are? There's not actually been that much talk about North Korea where I am right now, but I mean, I'm in a pretty rural area right now, but in quite a rural area for a while, where, you know, you don't really see houses for, you know, a couple, a couple of whatever. So that's, it's hard for me to say, yeah. Okay, just to add to that? Yeah, yeah. No, no, that was, yeah. You can't go, you can't go too far down the street here without, without it, somehow. Somehow coming up, yeah, wow, okay. Yeah, so, well real quick, if you don't mind, I kind of, I wanted to be able to dig in a little bit. Okay, we have one more minute. It's yours. Oh, sounds good. Well, so since, you know, the topic of the show is about transactional versus transformational relationships, yeah, I just feel really strongly about some thoughts that, you know, yeah, that, that, that I formed while I was at this training. And, and I think I really can kind of boil it all down to this one breakout session, which is all about basically volunteer engagement, you know, and, and for that breakout session, I mean, really that running a campaign for political, you know, candidacy, it pretty much spelled out to me as like similar to running a campaign for anything, you know, in terms of like a nonprofit scenario, like, you know, running a campaign for a specific bill or, you know, XYZ. And, and yeah, you know, and, and the thing that kept sort of, you know, almost raising a little bit of a flag in my head was, was just a mindset or just even always referring back to the campaign, the campaign, the campaign, you know, it's like, what can this person do for this camp, my campaign, you know, how can they fit in, you know, and I don't, and I don't think anybody's had malicious intentions, you know, and like, I think that's the way we, we talk about it, you know, it's almost like an us and them kind of a mentality, you know, even if you're talking about your own friends and family, which I just think is strange, you know, at the end of the day, you know, and I understand that that's how we've done it for a while. But, okay, well, I can't wait to see what you do with it when it's your time, or when you're helping your buddies, when you're organizing for your buddies who are going to be running for office next year. Yeah. So, you know, I don't want to say too much, but certainly for myself, if I, I'm still not 100%, you know, committed to the running, but, you know, if I do, yeah, I want to run a campaign that will probably look relatively different than a lot of other campaigns you've seen, you know, and, okay, and yeah, anyway, so, so, so, yeah. Thanks a lot, Jeffrey, for joining us here on Hawaii is My Mainland, and we'll see you when you're back in Honolulu. Aloha.