 Welcome back to the Breakfast and Plus TV Africa. Let's look at the second conversation and the issue of a thought force has re-sophised ahead of the 2023 elections. Now, in 2014, four opposition parties managed to challenge President Goodlock Jonathan to winning the elections in 2015. The parties had formed all the all-progressive Congress because of the need for radical change, with the mantra, change with the APC. The major in 2014 includes the ACN, led by Nigerians, former anti-corruption chief Niu Robadu, and the Congress for Progressive Change, that's the CPC, headed by the former military ruler, Muhammad Dabari, as well as the All Nigerian People's Party, that's the ANPP and the All Progressive Grand Alliance. Now, ahead of the 2023 general elections, a former governor of Karnu State and Minister of Defense Rabiu Kwankwaso has joined forces with some of his associates to wrestle power from the ruling All Progressive Congress in 2023. While the proponents of the thought force say that the ruling party have failed Nigerians, will there be a repeat of 2015 in 2023? Now joining us to make sense of all of this is Professor Kamilu Sani Fagi, who is a lecturer of political science at Bayaro University in Karnu and a political analyst. It's good to have you join us, Professor Sagi. So the big question here is, do you see a thought force in 2023? Yes, it depends on how the people who are to mobilize and form the, what we can call it. Yeah, because from the look of things on the party, but they say there are a lot of people from different parties so that they will come and make sure that credible people are elected in 2023. Well, but you already understand how, you know, the system actually works. A lot of persons are saying that the proponents of the thought force ideology are not serious because they don't have to wait up until the year of the elections before having this force. Other persons have also queried those behind the thought force. If you look at them, some of them are also part of the system, the PDP, the APC and what have you. And so Nigerians are politically aware and are saying there's no way this is going to happen. Yeah, you see, the timing, the timing is rather a little bit late. In 2005 to convert support to form the party that will continue with the two major ones that we have now, even though there are other parties. But I think to me it is the time that it's a little bit late. Okay, whatever comes together, they are doing it a little bit late. Secondly, if we look at it, it's likely going to be an old wine in new bottle. The same people who have been recycling of this democratic differentiation are likely going to be the same people who will now coalesce together and try to form another party. You know, collected from other different parties in order to form the new one. If that is what they wanted to do. All right, Professor, we recall that it was former president, chief of Lushego, old passenger who popularized the term Third Force. Is this Third Force possible in Nigerian politics as it is today? Is it necessary? And if it's possible, what needs to be done to make it a reality? If it's necessary as well, what needs to be done to make it a reality? Because we remember the rescue, and we can't forget in a hurry, the rescue Nigeria project that was summoned by the likes of Professor Pato Tomey, Professor Tai Ujjaga, Donald Duke, Abdul Fatah Ahmed, the former governor of Quarra State who on that day was told that EFCC or one of the agencies had taken over his building. Is this Third Force feasible? And if it's necessary, how can it be actualized? Third Force, given the nature of our multi-party democracy, I think it's necessary. We should have major parties that can compete among themselves that can give the electorate a viable option for them to elect people of their choice. But the way we have it now, there are two dominant parties, and the electorate have little choice as to which candidate will the parties will be a local election. Like the way we see Afghan in South East, we will have other ones coming here. Being necessary, I think that is right, that it is necessary we should have major parties like that. But whether it is feasible at this moment, I think that is where the problem lies. Because when the electionial campaign will be open, that is in August. Now you see, given what it takes to form a party, to register it and now to get at least 24 states and then to mobilize other things whether they have the resources to actually compete with the major parties. So to me that is the major problem that they will face at this time because of what I've mentioned in terms of timing, in terms of resources, in terms of logistics. And so many things that they have a very limited time to actually mobilize and get themselves known so that they can compete favorably or equally with the major parties. Prof, just a quick follow up to that. Is this not therefore making the case for probably those who are proponents of a two-party state, just like we had in the SCP NRC era? You see, two-party states, even where we have them, they grow naturally. It is not that you impose the party and say people should join. You see, even in America where you have two-party system, even in Britain there is not only two parties. There are smaller parties, only that the major ones are dominant to the extent that you hear me, you hardly hear about the local ones, I mean the smaller parties. So to me I think we should allow the process, the political process to take care of itself. We could have so many parties, but those ones that could not perform well, they could die a natural political death and people would now finance into major parties. But if you now want to make it like the way the military did it, when they impose two-party system, SCP NRC, you are likely to wake up a lot of crisis within the parties because people of different opinion and ideology will be forced into two parties and at the end of it the differences will surface and there will be crisis within the parties. But if it is a natural growth, people of like mind, people of the same ideology, beliefs and so on, you see then they will come into the party of their choice and they will join the party and that will make the system better for us. Alright, well I think that's so much that we can take at this point in time. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation. Even though we wish we had more time to have a lot of issues looking at some of the consensus that's been raised, especially the fact that you have the thought party force coming up usually just the year before the elections and it fizzles out and comes back again afterwards. But many thanks Professor Fagi for being part of the show this morning. We do appreciate your time. Thank you very much. And Kofi, that's it. Very interesting. Last time I checked on INEC's portal, you have 18 political parties in Nigeria. Some of the political parties, I wonder people will recognise. But INEC has even whittled down the number of political parties. The least state of the registered parties used to be more than this. And so maybe it's even curious to them that we have just 18 compared to the numbers we had. There are more and the pipeline and there are more that are being worked upon. But it's interesting the gentleman, the professor said it's late to come up with any third force. He also mentioned that it depends on the strategies that has been put out because if you look at 2014 that led to 2015, that whole measure started in 2014 and it was just ahead of 2015. Even though you also had at the time the People's Democratic Party, you had a lot of persons doubting the capacity of having this measure taken over the elections. But some persons have also said it was about the personality, the candidates that were projecting and of course you have President Mohammed Dabari. And in this case some people are saying you have Qanqa so you have the rest, especially in the same region coming together. But we don't know how that pans out for you. What structure? Because the guys who came and formed the APC came with something to the table. You had Rojas who came with his own block of APC. He was governor of emo state and he had supporters. You had President Buhari and his group who came from the Congress for progressive change. They had their structure, Northern Nigeria. Then you had Bola Betidbu and his group who came with the Action Congress. They had their structure in the Southwest. You had a maichi, you had Saaraki and Ko who left the PDP from the NPDP and then moved into the All Progressive Congress. They had structures, they had supporters, they had base, they had money. They had money, they came with money, which is very important. We need to move away immediately. But you also have the Kwan Kaso with Kanu and Kanu is a major... What structures are they coming in? I'm not trying to hold brief for them but a lot of people are thinking that Kwan Kaso might just be thinking about Kanu, which is a very major one. We're looking at 44 local governments and it feels like if you can win Kanu, then you can win the entire... I was responding to the whole time frame, the comparison with the time it took the APC to my DSES because they didn't have too much time and we should not look at the time they came together. We can also add to that the time that they spent building their individual structures and parties. The structures they already have? Yes. Now these guys, Patutomi, Jaga, Modicola Gen, Abdufata Ahmed and Ko, Kwan Kaso and Ko, what have they built apart from the pockets they have in the state? What have they built? You know, in Kanu state right now, it's between... Of course, Kwan Kaso has his Kwan Kaso movement and they all wear the red caps and all that. But this is Nigeria we're talking about. That will be a conversation for another time. Thank you so much for being part of the breakfast. It's been an amazing conversation too. I was up until now. We will return with the breakfast tomorrow. Trust me, it's going to be very explosive. And if you miss out on any part of the conversation, it's all right to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, what plus TV Africa and plus TV Africa lifestyle. And do subscribe to a YouTube channel as well. I am Messi Boko. Have a fantastic Wednesday. And I'm Kofi Bartels. Enjoy your day. Gentlemen.