 and welcome back to the nonprofit show. We are so glad you're here. Yesterday was a holiday, so today is technically our money, but it really is Tuesday, so don't worry. Today we have with us here the nonprofit show Jennifer Hildebrand. She is CEO of Hope Mental Health Foundation, and she's bringing to us a conversation that I feel like we're saying this more and more, Julia, like we don't talk about this enough. And there is another topic here again, funding mental health and how bridging gaps and therapy cost might impact your organization, but certainly your community. So stay with us to hear more from Jennifer before we jump into conversation. We want to remind all of you who the two of us are if we haven't had the pleasure of meeting you yet. So hello to you Julia. Julia C. Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy and I'm Jarrett Ransom, nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group. Together we are so immensely grateful to have the ongoing support from these amazing partners. So a shout out of gratitude to our friends over at Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, your sorry, nonprofit thought leader, staffing boutique, your part-time controller, 180 management group, fundraising academy at National University. Also thank you to JMT Consulting, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. And then here we go. So yeah, as Jarrett was saying, you can get to us from our podcasts or broadcasts more than 950 episodes. She said 966, which blows my mind. But yeah, we will find you where you are. But more importantly, we found Jennifer Hildebrandt today, CEO of Hope Mental Health Foundation. Welcome. Thank you. So grateful to be here. Always so grateful to talk about Hope. You know, Hope is such a powerful word and I think that one of those things that you hear through all of these problems that we've had through the pandemic and then the pandemics that have ensued from civil discourse, economics, you know, a lot of disruption in culture. Hope is that word that people will say, I have lost hope. And that just seems like such a devastating thing. So to find you using that word is really powerful. Talk to us about that and what that looks like in your world. Yeah, and I'm like, I do feel like Hope is something that, you know, is thrown away around. But for me, Hope really is the mission behind this. I can kind of back up to my own personal story was raised by parents divorced when I was young. My mom worked really a lot of hours and in those hours that we were home, my mom had some really bad choices of boyfriends and those led to some trauma in my own life that then followed me into my adult age and to my ability to be a wife and a mother. And I found myself in a couple pretty intense years of therapy and those counseling services, that therapy, I say essentially saved my life because I would not be where I am today. I would not be sitting here without access to those services and those tools that I needed. And so I was able to find Hope. And now I get to be a part of trying to bring that same resource to others. And I will tell you also, as I sit in meetings with therapists and I learn about different treatments and things like that, there really is hope for everyone. And I feel it as I serve in this foundation, as I'm a part of it, that no one should feel hopeless. There is something for everyone. It's just making sure that we teach them about it. And then we give them the actual ability to go be a part of it. To be a part of it. Well, you know, I love that you framed it that way because that's one of the things that with these new way of working and behaving and the digital age and technology shifts. Hope is one of those things that if we don't have it, we can't deal with the things that are coming down the pike so quickly at us, I think. And so let's talk about the way you all started and what your foundation does, if you will, to kind of give us a lens with which we can understand how you work. So I think with something that's actually really unique about Hope is it was started by a group of therapists that were in the trenches. They were serving community. They were seeing their patients and they realized that there was a huge gap. Either people were losing their jobs. They had people seeking services that did not have insurance. And on the other hand, there is a lot of therapists, really good quality specialized that do specific treatments that do not accept insurance at all. And so this group of therapists thought, Hey, let's start a foundation and try to help bridge the gap for these people that need these resources, but are unable to pay. But these therapists had no time to run a foundation. And so it sat pretty quiet for years. And then right before the pandemic came, they brought in a public board. That's when I was asked to sit on the board of Hope and to start trying to do some fundraising to help actually start to make some movement for this foundation and for these resources for others. And then the pandemic came and the whole thing shut down. And so as our ramping up fundraising just came to a halt, we sat back and we still kept meeting virtually. And we realized that the mental health crisis that we were in was just becoming greater by the minute you've taken kids out of school. I mean, I have my own children who I have a couple introverts who they were going to school and they were doing great. And then we pulled back and they were in our home on a daily basis and functioning and I watched anxiety levels and panic attacks and all of these things that we really had not dealt with become in my own home, something that we were battling because of what COVID did and the lack of communication and interaction with others that it was giving our youth and our parents and our families, everybody was just so cut off. And so Hope really just kind of sat quiet as we watched this become worse. And the minute that everything started to open back up, we threw a fundraiser and we just have been, I feel like I'm on this fast moving train that is really just trying to do everything we can to meet the amount of people that are asking for help. You know, it's so interesting to think about in some ways how COVID probably showed a spotlight on the concept of mental health and maybe to an advantage. I mean, would you say that that's fair? If nothing else, just how we're talking about this? Or do you think it would have gone on, it would have kind of bubbled to the surface? No, I really do because I think all of a sudden people were just in their everyday lives and they were moving forward. And some people were honest with their struggles and a lot of people suffered in silence. But I think that when you alienate people and all of a sudden then you're asked, okay, it's time to go back to life, people were struggling. And I think a little more vocal about what those struggles were because the ability to get back to work wasn't as easy as it was prior to that. And all of a sudden you've got kids that are being asked to go to school that it was already a struggle for them to get there. But now they've been removed and putting them back in was not, it just became something that wasn't even as possible as before. And so I think it's caused us to be more willing to talk about it. I can't tell you how many times a week, parents reach out, sisters, brothers, family saying, hey, I have a family member that needs help, can you, or they're struggling with that. I'm like, no, everyone knows I went to therapy. I've been pretty vocal about it in my entire kind of story, but no one's ever asked about it until after COVID where all of a sudden people are asking for help. They're asking for resources and trying to get back to what we considered was a normal life. Right. Well, part of that, I mean, I think that's fascinating. And, you know, to go back to your word of hope, to me, it's very hopeful that we would have these conversations that people would reach out and ask for help. But it's also one of those things that it's so tragic when you realize not only have they gone so far to ask for help, but help might not be attainable because of this horrible barrier of cost. Talk to us about what that looks like and really how you're combating that. Yeah, I think that, I mean, I'd like to say that most people can go to therapy, but I actually think it's the opposite. I think most people cannot afford therapy. Your families that are living paycheck to paycheck, even those who aren't, that have a little bit of a savings. I'm like, therapy costs are very expensive. You, especially for those specialized therapies like EMDRO, neurofeedback, I'm like, there is these amazing things, art therapy that you can do to try to work through your struggles. But you're talking, I mean, at a low end, most of your like interns that are being supervised are in that $100 range. It's, we're watching the cost just go up and up. You're talking $150 to $200 an hour is pretty normal for someone to seek therapy. And when first, when we first started accepting applications, so how hope works is you get on apply and then we award on a sponsorship basis. The therapist will get a letter saying, Hey, your client has been awarded and then they bill us per session. And so that's kind of how the process works. In the beginning, the sponsorships would come in. I mean, I had enough funding that we were able to kind of get through most everyone that showed that they financially qualified, we were able to award. It is becoming, I mean, Julia, it is, I have more applications piling up than I will probably even be able to get to in the near future. And so I spend every day just trying fundraising fundraising, trying to figure out how to meet the need. But the need is it is growing. The more people are talking about it, the more people hear, Hey, I went and this helped me. They want that same resource. And it's just trying to figure out how to get the them through this process, the funding and the ability to get them in front of those therapists so that they can truly start to heal. You know, it's such an interesting thing too, because it seems to me that it's really a fascinating time in history, where as we were just saying a few minutes ago, people are willing to do this, you know, people are willing to talk and talk about this and have this be more socially acceptable, only to come upon this horrible financial barrier, right? Seems like, you know, as a society, it's such a big arc, even just to get to the point where we're saying, you know, I think it's probably one of the hardest parts of my job is that these sponsorships are people asking for help. They just can't afford it. And just a short story, my daughter is a university college student. And so she she was one that struggled during COVID. She's doing really good. She's in school. She's thriving. But she said, mom, I feel like I'm struggling. Like I, I think I need to get back in therapy and just kind of just go through some things and work through it. And so she's out of state. She found a therapist out of state. And then I get this text from her that says, Hey, mom, there is this thing. What does this mean? And basically it was saying your cash pay, if you don't have the ability to pay, you're going to need to find a different office. And I was like, Hey, you know, it's fine, just put my credit card on file. I'll help you get through it. And I in that moment thought, man, my kid is lucky right now. And this is why I'm a part of hope because think of how many college age kids are struggling and they go to try, they take that step, they find a therapist. And all of a sudden they're met with this roadblock of, Hey, if you can't cash pay, you're going to have to go someone else and we just stop. And then that, that is what gets me that if we talk about our why, I hear you guys talk about the why all the time. That is why I refuse to give up because they are asking for help. It's just meet that need. So, you know, let's talk about the impacts of COVID on your nonprofit, because it seems to me you're in a really interesting space here and that you had the financial problems, you had community problems, you couldn't go out and fundraise and get in front of your community and promote your organization. But at the same time, it sounds to me like COVID was really one of the driving factors behind why your organization needed to exist, right? I mean, it's such an interesting thing. I mean, COVID was coming to you from both sides in essence. Well, and I think that there is still, I mean, there is, it's two-sided. On one side, you get donors that now are willing to give to a mental health foundation. And I still run into some that are like, not interested. I'd rather just give to a school or I would rather give to and all of those things are great. All the pet, all of those things, all of those foundations are so important and so amazing. But you get that still, it is some people still don't want to talk about it. They don't want to believe it's a problem. They think you should just pull up your bootstraps and through it. And then you get others who are like, Hey, this is important. And we get it. And we want to be a part of helping. So I'm like, COVID did both. It made things worse. And it made things to where more people were willing to talk about it. Yeah. You know, talk to me about the nonprofit environment and your donors. Do you have folks that are coming to you because they can intellectualize that you're a good investment? Or are they coming to you because they've faced this within their families or their coworkers? And I guess it's like the emotional empathetic side of your donors. Like how are they coming to you because of what is going on in this very odd time? Well, we definitely have both. I mean, I believe and I believe we're a good investment. We keep our costs really small. There is just a couple of us that are working really tirelessly to try to keep this moving forward. So when someone gives to hope, the amount that is turning around, I mean, it is directly going right back into the community. So as far as a good investment, I believe that we are a really good one. On the other side, there are people, I mean, we are board members, every single one of them who sits on my board is impacted in a pretty big way by someone or themselves who have struggled. And they are passionate. And when donors come to us through them or through friends, it is because they have a reason to give. I always, I talk a lot in different things about my relationship with my mom. It is, it is the most difficult relationship that I have. But I will tell you, it's part of reason why I am here. Because there is sometimes that you can't help the loved ones that you want to help. But this is a way to turn around and give back and to help someone who is, maybe has the possibility right now of being helped. And like, I can't necessarily help my mom right now, but I can turn around and help these others who are asking. And it gives me a little bit of peace. I love that. And I think that is like the bigger picture, nature of the nonprofit sector is that the impacts of your life, the things that come around to you, how do you turn those back into opportunities for others? It may not be your own life, but it can be shared within the community or another sector. And so that is really powerful. I would imagine there are so many of your board members, hopefully they are feeling the same way that they see no matter what their situation is, that they are providing impact outside of their own sphere. Do you have a sense of that? A hundred percent. I woke up to a text this morning from a board member that there had been a loss and that he had sent her information so that there was the resource. I think that the emotion behind your family struggling, friends struggling, your community struggling, that's that driving force to keep working, to get up every day and to say, okay, we're going to do this again and we're going to continue to try to make an impact. You want to change the world, let people go to therapy and heal and find the resources they need to continue to move forward in a positive and happy way. And our board members feel that and I feel that, and that's why hope, even on the hardest days, just continues to move forward. Wow, it's such an exciting thing to hear somebody on the front lines, like you, talking about this and putting it into practice for so that we can see this part that we don't always talk about. We try and talk about, yeah, get help, talk to somebody, reach out, build community, but then it sounds good and we don't really always know how to do it. And then we find out there are these barriers to cost. I would imagine most people have no idea what the time and the financial commitments are to even going down this path. So to know that your organization is doing this is really powerful. Now I'm going to ask you to jump ahead and talk to us about what you think the next five years are going to look like. This is where we say, get out the crystal ball, shine it off and help us figure out what you're seeing because you're in the trenches. Right, I'm in the trenches. We're not over this. I mean it's over this. So what are you seeing? So I think I'd like to start with what do I dream first? Okay, love it. And what I dream is that every single person that asks for help will be given help. That is my ultimate five-year, 10-year, 20-year as long as hope is needed. That is what I hope this looks like. What does the next five years look like? I think it looks like a lot of work where sponsorships are going to come in. Fundraising is tricky. I mean you're in the same sector. It is finding those who want to be passionate that are going to be a continual giver so that we can kind of count on that funding who comes in who will believe in us. So I think the next five years, because we are newer, the next five years really is establishing that we are not going anywhere, that the things that we do mean something and are making a difference and really keeping our budget so small, trying to make sure that every penny that we are able to bring in, we can turn around and give out. And then watching, I hope the next five years, I have story after story that comes in of people who said, hey, thank you. I am thriving in life. My children are back at school. We're doing better. My marriage is better. That's what I want those five years to look like. I want the funding. I want the people to heal and be happy. I love it. It seems to me that you're on a trajectory of seeing that through given just the landscape of our communication. And we're talking about this. I was watching recently a show on PBS, Finding Your Roots. Completely interesting. I love this program. It's all about genealogy and how we get to places. And a conversation came up about therapy and how a lot of these people in the historical context of their lives are who they are because of trauma and how it's moved forward. And I thought to myself, I've been watching this for 10 seasons and this conversation has never really come up the way it has. And it just seemed to me, I knew you were coming on today, and it just seems to me that we're talking about these things more. And so that can only help all aspects of your work from fundraising to connecting to sponsorships to educating the population. It's really an interesting time. And I think that once there's one of us that is able to speak up and, hey, you're not alone. Everybody's stories look different. My story is not the same as someone else's story. But a lot of times there is similarities within those stories where we can build and find a little bit of strength and like, hey, she went to therapy, I think that I can do it. It's a lot of work. And sometimes you are, I remember when I was really in the depths of dealing with my trauma, I would be pretty quiet for a couple of days. And it would take me time to process it. And then I would come out a little stronger and a little better. And as I continued to work through it and find that other side, and I think if anyone's hearing me today that here there is so much hope. It is rough and it is hard, but it is so worth it. And there is so much beauty on the other side of getting through those things and finding the resources that are perfect for your story. It's so important. Yeah, it's just amazing to hear you talk about this. And I've loved having this conversation because I feel, Jen, we get right up to the edge. And then we haven't had these conversations like talking about how you administrate it. It's plain and simple. How do you fund it? How do you find the time? Where do you find the expertise? Who do you share this with? Do you share it in fear or do you share it in strength? I mean, it's such an interesting, interesting thing. And so thank you for the work that you're doing for our community that really needs to have this door unlocked. Jennifer Hildebrand, CEO, Hope Mental Health Foundation, HopeFoundationGives.org. Their website's beautifully done and they have some fascinating, beautifully done testimonial videos that you can watch from people looking. There's a father that speaks about his child that's riveting. There's a young woman who talks about her life. If you hear them and watch how they communicate, not scripted, just very, very organic, beautifully done. I also want to say, Jen, that if any of our viewers or listeners needs an example of how to do a great testimonial video, they need to see yours, no matter what it is they're doing. Hey, I love it when we get something right. Thank you for that. No, it's really well done. It's really well done. And I remember when I was watching, I'm like, wow, I don't care if you're raising money for a pet rescue. This is just the way you've done it is really, really good. Well, and it's one of those things that was so raw and real, they were real and that makes a difference. Yeah, you captured that and not in an exploitive manner. I think that was, that's I think probably why it resonated with me as an observer to the process. I was like, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't unseemly. It was really genuine and it was honest. And it going back to your word, it had hope. So it was a cool thing. Well, Jen Hildebrand, we have really, really enjoyed this. I'm sorry that we lost. You're right. Because of all of our episodes coming up, this has been one of the ones she's been the most excited about. But, you know, I had a little technological glitch. These things happen. We're in a live show. And so we had to kick her off. We were sorry to do that, but she'll be back with us, of course. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Jared R. Ransom, the nonprofit nerd, and my trusty co-host will be back with us tomorrow. Again, we have these amazing conversations. This is 966, just so different and so fun. And that really comes to us because of our support. Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Your Part Time Controller, 180 Management Group, Fundraising Academy at National University, JMT Consulting, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out. So we can have these amazing conversations like we've had today with Jen Hildebrand. Jen, this is really cool. I can't wait to see how your journey moves forward as things are shifting out of COVID. I mean, we will never be the same. And nor should we, but it's going to be really interesting to see how your organization navigates this next phase of the journey. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for having us on. Thank you for letting me talk about hope because it really, it matters and it's important. And I'd love sharing what we're doing. Well, you're a beautiful ambassador to this. And I loved how you connected us to your mission and what that looks like. So thank you very, very much. Hey, everybody. You know, we have this mantra that we started at the very beginning. We close every show. And honest to goodness, I know it sounds hokey, but every time I say it or Jared says it, it means something different. It's fascinating. And it goes like this, to stay well so you can do well. Thank you so much, Jen. You have a great week and we'll chat with you.