 Live from Cube Headquarters in Palo Alto, California. It's the Silicon Valley Friday Show with John Furrier. Hey, welcome everyone to the Silicon Valley Friday Show. Here at December 16th, I'm John Furrier. It's the Silicon Valley Friday Show. With me, John Furrier, we have no guests in the studio. They were probably out getting their holiday shopping. A lot of folks in and around town running around, certainly in Silicon Valley. Weather was brutal, traffic's bad, as always. But we have two great calling guests. We're going to have Doug Gore-Lay, former Cisco executive, Arista Networks executive, entrepreneur, and tech luminary. Also, we're going to have Jim Long, who is the father of video streaming. He invented the term and the concept out of Cal Berkeley. He's going to join in. He's been through, been to VC. He's been an entrepreneur. He just launched a new startup that's going to be changing the cord cutting business and hopefully doing great. Again, this is the Silicon Valley Friday Show, where we talk about all the latest in tech, what's impacting the world out of Silicon Valley and around the world. I'm John Furrier. Biggest story of the week and probably of the back end of the year is Donald Trump winning the election. President-elect Donald Trump totally trolled everyone during the election and continues to troll everyone post-election and pre-elect president. And he had all the tech leaders from the top tech companies in New York at Trump Towers this week sitting around a table, talking about what he's going to do for tech. And that was the biggest story of the week. And I got to say that do was noticeable posturing. They published a seating chart. The seating chart was interesting in and of itself. But what was most interesting was who was there and who wasn't there. The seating chart was filled with all the tech leaders you can think of. You know, Peter Thiel, obviously his right hand man as he stood up in the convention and supported him. Tim Cook, Apple CEO, Safra Katz, CEO of Oracle, Elon Musk, Cheryl Sandberg, not Mark Zuckerberg. Cheryl Sandberg, which we'll talk about that. Larry Page, Jeff Bezos, Brad Smith, who's with Microsoft Chief Legal Officer. And then you had Brian from, Katschik from CEO of Intel, Eric Schmidt. And then you had Chuck Robbins, Jeanne Rometti, Satya Nutella, all the top people. But who wasn't there was the Twitter CEO, Jack Dorsey, who was not invited. He was purposely blackballed from the meeting because of his war with Trump on EmojiGate, I call. And basically EmojiGate is, they essentially tried to get it through a $5 million ad by during the first debate. They wanted to have an emoji in the hashtag crookedHillary which showed a person running with a bag of money. Twitter rejected it out of hand editorially and that caused Trump to be pissed off. And then now hence Twitter is blackballed from that little circle of tech stars. So that was interesting. What was also interesting was Mark Zuckerberg didn't show up. Sheryl Sandberg showed up. And a lot of people are talking about that because Sheryl has political background. So for her to be there, she is very strong in policy, very savvy. Some say she might run for president someday. So she was there. And they really didn't look like they were having a good time. And certainly Trump was owning them and essentially making them come to New York, kissed the ring as some say. But ultimately a lot of people in the press were really kind of dissing on the tech execs for that. Here's my take. Trump is owning the tech people by making them come down and groveling for attention. Because if they don't come down, they might not get the huge benefits from the Trump administration when he puts it on the table that he's gonna bring all that cash that's overseas. And let me be specific. Of the seating chart, if you look at the seating chart, the people with the most cash outside the US were closest to Trump. You had Tim Cook. You had Larry Page. And you had Oracle. And just to kind of put it in perspective, the top five tech companies with cash outside the US, some of these companies have over 80 to 90% of their cash on hand for their entire business outside the US because under former President Obama and others, the tax rate to bring it back in was so high that they're better off leaving it over there and then taking debt out on the cash and the repayment interest is still less than bringing the cash in because of the tax. This is trillions and trillions of dollars that are sitting outside the country. So that's why, in my opinion, that's why everyone was there. They were there because Trump might throw the switch, not for a tax holiday, just to bring it all back all the time. So here's the numbers. Apple, number one company with over $175 billion overseas. $175 billion overseas. Number two, Microsoft, greater than $100 billion outside the US. Three, IBM, greater than 70 billion. Google now called Alphabet, greater than 60 billion. Cisco at number five with 55 billion plus and Oracle with 45 billion. All of those people were in the room. So if you're Apple, just think about that. Close to $200 billion of cash is outside the US. So Tim Cook was frowning, probably taking it on the chin but ultimately they have to do that. The shareholders want to probably see that cash come in. So to me, I think that is the reason why everyone was there. And then the big surprise is Safford Katz, CEO of Oracle, announced that she's going to be on the transition team for Trump. So you have this kind of, people are starting to come out of the closet now in Silicon Valley around Trump. So you start to see who actually is supporting Trump. Are they being political or are they just being more from the party of business, as I say I'm from? Which is whoever helps business, I like. And I think that's kind of interesting dynamic. The problem is, is that anyone could have beat Hillary and Trump happens to be the guy. So I think Trump, everyone got it all wrong about Trump. He's going to put together a cabinet. He's going to do well in my opinion. I think you're going to start to see people kind of take back what they've been saying. So I think we're going to be watching this really, really closely. A lot of people, I mean, Cheryl Sandberg was biting her lip. You can see a picture there. Tim Cook looked a very glum. Bezos was pretty upbeat and that was surprising because he had a war of words with Trump because he owns the Washington Post and he had his political feelings. But I think ultimately people are going to put their differences aside. At the end of the day, businesses still got to run. He's the president. Bezos was very supportive. But I think there's still an undercurrent of hate for Trump. And I think that's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. And again, Trump is probably going to surprise everybody. But the question is, can he align with tech? Will he destroy tech? Will he destroy net neutrality on and on? So we're going to be watching that closely. Everyone kind of got it wrong to begin with. We'll see. Other top stories this week. Yahoo got hacked. And again, and the numbers are over a billion users were revealed. Then in the black market, it's going for $300,000 for that list. Oracle had earnings down a bit from what people expected. Cisco won a big trial jury against Cisco. And our first guest will be Doug Gorley, who's going to come on and talk about that and among other things. So again, end of the year. Last show for us, we're going to get right into it. So let's get to Doug Gorley on the line first. And then we'll go to Jim Long. Let's get Doug. Here we go. Colling. All right, so Doug Gorley, I've known for years. And Doug, John Furrier, get to talk to you. Welcome to the Silicon Valley Friday show. Good morning. It's good to be on your show, John. We're live. And the new call-in feature. So we get to call the iPhones. Works like a champ. How are you? Doing really well. Happy birthday, by the way. It's your recovery. It's your birthday. So happy birthday. Thanks. Giant calling thing that your friends organize on your birthday. We got the dirt on you. First call. Can you put up those naked photos of Doug right now? Come on, put them up. Well, hey, thanks for taking the time. I know you've got to run out and get in the car. But I want to just chat and see what you're up to. And obviously, good timing. One, your birthday. Two, you got a great commentary. We've known each other way back when you were at Cisco, really working on the core routers and switches back in the old days at Arista Networks. And now, as an entrepreneur and tech luminary, you've seen a few things. So first, I've got to ask you. Arista wins a jury trial against Cisco. What's happening? Well, we start up in Silicon Valley, especially one in the networking space. As much as I love Cisco and I love my time there and a lot of my good friends are still there, but this was an example of a big company being upset that a startup came in and was taking market share. Go upset that something was using the same CLI as that we would have seen the exact same lawsuit against boundary, extreme, brocade, and everybody else. And if it was about the intellectual property of private VLANs, we would have seen lawsuits against Broadcom and every other semiconductor manufacturer and every other switching vendor. So what it was clearly was about somebody taking market share and not upset Cisco and they resorted to litigation to solve that. What's the relevance of that? What does that mean to the marketplace? What's it mean to the... It's time use innovation. So the jury saying Arista was innocent and did not violate the copyrights of Cisco and that the CLI was an industry standard CLI with a standard piece of, it's like a movie scene where it opens up into the kitchen and the family's having breakfast and you see that scene again and again because it's used in seven different movies doesn't mean that it's copyrighted by one of them. So that needs a win for Silicon Valley because it means that companies can enter the market, they can compete, they can create products that are easy for customers to use. And to me, that's the most important thing. I can go to a product that is easy for a customer to absorb and use and to bring into their plant and I can reduce that barrier of entry. What I'm doing is I'm creating the ability for my customers to have more choice. Whether that choice is my product or somebody else's it levels that playing to it a little bit. And I think that's good for everybody and most importantly, it's good for the consumer. So what's your take on the current landscape? Obviously cloud computing shaking things up. Cisco is talked as being one of the ones like HPE made, can they pivot in time? They got a new CEO who happened to be sitting down with Trump this week. That's interesting. What's your take on the landscape right now? It's end of the year. People are saying, hey, thank God 2016's over. They're looking to 2017. Is it going to get any better? I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, probably some opportunities to take, but if you're a big incumbent like the Cisco or an HPE in these oracles, they got to be shaking in their boots. Your thoughts on what's happening? Well, two thoughts on that, John. The first is kind of two macro trends I think. The first is clearly, and I think everybody will stand at the cloud, the cloud, the cloud, right? I went to this AWS show this year, I tried to meet with you and there were 32,000 people that are competing to try to get in to talk to John, right? So it's like, oh my God, this is incredible. We're 2,000 people there who's to never buy a piece of equipment that I've manufactured before in my life. Like literally, I spent 20 years building the artwork equipment and there's more buyers at the Amazon re-invent show whose goal was to not buy anything I've ever made before. I've ever seen before, I'm like, whoa. Oh, that's a holy shit moment right there, right? So what does that mean? I mean, tremendous demand side consolidation into a small, powerful buying centers. Amazon, Azure, Google, Facebook, and so on. And frankly, if you're an infrastructure manufacturer supporting data center operations in any capacity and you are not selling to those companies today, I probably believe you will be out of business is the 2016 election. Right, we have a, this is like anathema in Silicon Valley to say, no, I'm an internal entrepreneur in sales and everything else and I'm not in like the pragmatic thing, okay? Well, we have an incredibly, at least stated, pro-business president-elect. If he does, you know, I see these big meetings and what's likely to happen is a reduction of the business tax rate. And I believe also the attempt at reducing the tax rate for the repatriation companies like Cisco had $20, $30 billion, so on. We just went down to $30 billion. On that list, Cisco's over $60 billion overseas. Right, if you see that much outside capital, if they say, if the administration does something that allows them to repatriate it at a minimal tax rate, we're gonna see all of a sudden, you know, let's say Cisco has $10 billion sitting there, what are they gonna do with that? Well, there's only a few options. You cut a huge dividend check. Okay, I mean, as a shareholder, people appreciate that. You do a big stock buyback. Shareholders are less happy with stock buybacks than they are with dividends. Or you do M&A. M&A, yes, love that. If it's M&A, which I believe is one of the more likely outcomes of a repatriation of foreign capital, what we're gonna see is one of the biggest tech acquisition cycles. As these big companies say, hey, this cloud thing's happening, I need to repool my product companies. We watched Cisco, for instance, make a lot of acquisitions that were in Europe, like Kandberg and such, largely in a way to deploy that foreign capital. I think we'll see those types of acquisitions of small to mid-size companies happening domestically. And if there's competition for it, it could be one of the bigger tech buying cycles we've ever experienced. Well, that would be, and I think that's, I think you're right on the money. And we're here, Doug Gorley, who's an entrepreneur, tech exec, been in the business for a long time, seen many cycles of innovation, talking about the boom of M&A, which I totally see that coming, because dividends are nice and they're kind of a gesture. Stock buybacks is financial engineering, but at the end of the day, if you're under the gun of potentially going out of business that the cloud could do, you have to fill the product lines, gaps, and also reboot and refresh technology cycles. So, totally great observation, I agree with you, and that's a great comment. Doug, question for you, what are you hearing on the streets of Silicon Valley? What's going on in the coffee shops? What's going on in the bars? What's happening with the entrepreneurs? What's the whisper? What are you hearing out there? What's the talk of the town? What's the top things that people care about? Entrepreneurs, tech executives? What's the buzz? Well, I'll tell you, I was sitting in Cafe Venetia two days ago in Palo Alto and University Avenue, talking to an entrepreneur who has an interesting product. They're three to four engineers working one of themselves and then looking for their seed capital round. Two tables down with another guy talking about hiring systems engineers behind me that other guy pitching somebody on his business plan. There's certainly a fervor, right? There's an energy level and... It's not a downer, it's not a downer situation. People are upbeat, there's some action. So, these cycles when you have these troughs and changes, that's an entrepreneurial opportunity. That's when you should be gearing up, right? Exactly, exactly. And there's a competition, honestly, if there's one trend I'm seeing that comes out of that, it's a competition for talent. Right, and one of the hardest jobs I'm finding to place into a company I'm talking to or working with is like that VP of product, right? And the reason is, if you take a person who is really good at product, really good at understanding and working with customers who's able to really deeply relate to engineering, like if you're a product owner, why don't I just go start my own thing? Or why don't I go take a CEO spot? And so that's becoming a really complicated, hard find is an experienced head of product. Products, yes. I mean, I've talked to three or four companies where finding that person who, especially we have an engineering led, engineering founded company that got their first four to 10 people, that got their product idea, they're working the concept out, they're trying to get it down and get it tightened, work with, get their initial customer engagements. Finding the person to lead that function at some of these companies is an incredibly difficult search, frankly. Yeah, that's totally right. The product led CEO too has been a big trend as well, product led, engineering led. Certainly when you got the cloud capabilities, you can actually have instant resource pools available. So that really favors the technical engineering folks who have a business mindset, whether you're a front end developer or back end developer, you can really do some damage. Well, a company I was talking to two days ago showed me their architecture, and they're like, hey, I'm like, this is really cool. And they're like, yeah, we're gonna build these two hosting data centers out, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop for a second. You're gonna do what? And like guys, you realize you could put this in Azure or Amazon, and you're gonna save $5 million of CapEx. You're gonna save $1.4 million a year in OpEx and not having to have a web team, web ops team, a site reliability engineering team, and then on top of that, let's look at the list of regulatory compliance things. You're gonna have to comply with if you're building yourself. This will consume your current engineering team for the next three years. We can inherit the meeting with these infrastructures. Yeah, what cloud has done is reduce the barrier to entry, initially for a lot of consumer-facing businesses, but increasingly with the level of regulatory compliance and interesting network features, like direct path and things like that, but it really reduced the barrier to entry for enterprise companies as well. I think we're gonna see conventional wisdom really being debunked across the board. We're gonna see so many new ideas that's gonna change people's thinking of things. As you were saying, you had a career in building product, now it's gone, right? So this is a lot of action. Doug Gorley joining us. Thanks so much for taking the time. Doug, what are you up to these days? You're advising startups. What's going on in your world? Yeah, advising three or four companies. One in the network extraction and intent-based networking space, another one in the IoT security space, working with another one in the container space around container networking and container security, and a handful of others. It's problems that need to be solved next. We've seen the application developer become one of the prime insertion that app developer is now moving to containers as one of their primary vehicles for deploying container-aware. That becomes a big shift for a lot of people. And we just had to dive into it. Look, I would teach you. I mean, if you go into a hospital, there are billions of dollars of companies designed to secure laptops, servers, and mobile phones. 80% of the devices inside of a hospital are not laptops, mobile phones, or servers. All right, Doug, final question for you. Final question for you. Who has coal in their stockings this year in the tech business and who has the goods? Who's gonna open up their gifts and see coal and who's gonna have coal in their stocking? Who's gonna have the goods? Who's gonna have the goods? Well, I gotta tell you, I've been waiting for somebody to do the buyout of brocade for a long time, and I'm not surprised to see that happen. You know, it's so cash-rich on the fan side. I don't know whether the deal is good for the employees, but I think it's good for the acquirer, certainly, and I hope Broadcom figures a way to navigate that without infuriating their OEMs. Are there semiconductor customers? I'm sure they will. So that's an interesting deal for people. The company that I still strongly believe in is Palo Alto Networks. I look at them and I see a company that really, like with their trap spot, moved into Endpoint, struggled a little bit at first and really came to bear smoothly and is crushing it. I think that the founder's still around, too. We see the founder-led company, still a founder-led company, too, which is great. You've got the technical founder there, so good stuff. There's an incredible visionary in the security space and a top-weight management team across the board. Doug, happy birthday today. Happy birthday to you. Have a great day on your birthday, appreciate it, and thanks for taking the time. Sean, you guys have a great one over there as well. Take care. Doug Gore-Lay, executive tech luminary, great commentary. I mean, guys, you heard what he said. Big M&A boom coming. If, as we were saying on the Trump opening, there's that cash shitting out there. He reinforced that, basically, that's the deal and this is what's going on. I mean, put your politics aside. It's gonna be reigning money in the US. That's what's happening. That is why people are snapping the line. Everyone else is kind of like, oh, bum, because Obama's not in there and some of the Silicon Valley folks are gonna be bummed that Trump won, but still, if people have cash in their pocket, people have a spring in their step. So that's what I always say. Well, to take a break, we're gonna come back with Jim Long right after the short break. Get more commentary on the phone. We crank all all the execs and people in the industry get their thoughts here on the Silicon Valley Friday show with John Furrier. Be right back. Since the dawn of big data, the Cube has been there, connecting with executives, practitioners, entrepreneurs, thought leaders. But you're not a thought leader anymore. You're a futurist. That's the new trend. Futurist is the buzzword. No, I'm not. I'm very much living in the past. I don't like the future. I don't think much of the present year's job. Damn, John Cleese. There's a lot of people out there who have no idea what they're doing, but they have absolutely no idea that they have no idea what they're doing. And those are the ones with the confidence of stupidity who finish up in power. That's why the planet doesn't work. Knowledgeable, insightful, and a true gentleman. And the guy at the counter recognized me and said, are you listening? Yes, I'm tweeting away. I'm tweeting away. He has got rude that way. F***ing keyboard. John Cleese joins the Cube alumni. Welcome, John. You got any phone calls you need to answer? Hold on, let me check. The Cube is a comfortable place. You come inside the Cube and we have a conversation. Almost as if it were a chance meeting and we have a discussion about a particular topic. Our philosophy is everybody's expert, it's something. Everybody's passionate about something and has real deep knowledge about that something. Well, we want to focus in on that area and extract that knowledge and share it with our communities. Folks who have never heard of it before come in the Cube and say, well, this is really cool. What you guys are doing, it's unique. It adds value to the community and it adds value by really sharing information. I can't tell you how many people stop me at conferences or on the streets, on our airport, say, hey, I love your show. People that I've never met before, they say to me, I know you, you don't know me, I watch the Cube, I queue up your videos, I listen to them while I'm on the treadmill. It helps me learn, expands my knowledge, thank you. So it's really an honor to be part of that community. This is Dave Vellante, thanks for watching The Cube. You're listening to the Silicon Valley Friday Show with John Furrier. Silicon Valley Friday Show, I'm John Furrier. December 16th, we are here wrapping up the year we're going to not be on the next two weeks, we're going to be on vacation. Joining me right now on the phone is Jim Long, industry legend, father of streaming, invented the concept of streaming as we know it, Berkeley Cal guy, he's biased towards Cal, which is cool, but a friend, entrepreneur as well, former venture capitalist. Back when venture capital is like three firms. Jim, thanks for coming on the line. Appreciate you taking the time. Happy to be with you, John, here on The Cube or Cube Radio. Silicon Valley Friday Show. This is, The Cube's a little bit different. It's more edgy than The Cube. We go edgy here on the, my Friday podcast. Edgy, okay. Which is why we have you on, because you're edgy. Hey, so Jim, you know, you know, folks, I've known Jim for a long time, he's a good friend, but more importantly, he's been at the center of all the computer revolution, you know, going back to Cal when you were studying with, in Cal when all the systems revolution happened, all the anti-unix systems building out Linux as it becomes today really started at the kernel of Cal and Northeastern MIT, the schools of Carnegie Mellon and things of that nature. But you have, you know, you invented streaming, coined the term, you called the father of streaming, video streaming, which we're doing right now, but also you wouldn't work with Fred Adler for some of the early venture capitalists like Jim Anderson. And then now John Doar was just a young guy coming in. You knew those guys. So you've seen the evolution of venture capital. You've seen the evolution of entrepreneurship over multiple cycles of innovation. What's your thoughts, what's going on right now in your mind, what is the current state of entrepreneurship in Silicon Valley? Yeah, well, great topic. First of all, two things to point out. One is, of course, the whole streaming thing was done by a big team. It was by a original idea, but it was sort of, you know, vision is just seeing the obvious for the next guy, so I'm glad I got ahead on that one. And the other thing to point out, the entrepreneurship stuff is strong, for sure, tied to the overall economy. And I think what we've seen the last six, seven years is a government that is really not helping the economy. We're in for a period now where it could get worse or better, it's just too early to say, but the new Trump administration, and I think the economy itself, thank goodness, despite how dysfunctional our government is, the economy itself is what's powering things forward. I suddenly give Obama some credit for not screwing it up, but the president can't really do a whole lot. It really comes down to Congress and they need to get their act together. There's multiple things that need to be done at the same time, tax reform, entitlement reform, certainly, smart regulations, things like that. You can't just pick one of them off or the other one off. You can't like, you know, have hard and fast rules. I mean, you know, for example, the nominated people in the immigration area that are still questioning H1B visas. I mean, give me a break. That's true. You know, for 250 years, this country has been driven by immigrants starting businesses. How do you, you know, do you really want the best and brightest immigrants that come over here for education to go start businesses elsewhere? I mean, it makes no sense. Now, obviously people abuse it and that's an issue, but you know, it's amazing that we're starting off this new administration still arguing about whether or not we should have more H1B visas for our most talented immigrants. So, I mean, to me, that's the big issue for entrepreneurship. You know, I don't think fun that's what's going on here with all the new technologies. I was involved with neural networks in the 80s. It's fun to see them come back now as the new AI. I think there's a lot of promise there. Personally, I believe there's more hype than promise, but I think it's all good. Well, it's got more meat on the bone than it did years ago. Certainly with cloud computing and software, you can now start taking those known concepts in neural networks and AI and start putting some, you know, and baby steps with products. No, absolutely. No, absolutely. I mean, I'm running a cloud business to Consumer Apps company now and you know, once we get the basics out of the way, I'm looking forward to seeing what we could do with, you know, the new Amazon AI stuff or perhaps the stuff that Google or Facebook is doing as well, but you're right. You know, when you can just make API calls over the cloud and get expert systems and you know, biology working for you without writing a lot of code, that's pretty darn cool. We're Jim Long, CEO of a couple of companies, also an entrepreneur, also an investor as well here on the Silicon Valley Friday show. As we round out the year, you got to look at that Trump meeting with the tech executives and I put the seating chart on Facebook and commentary is pretty funny, but you know, there's a lot of billions of dollars out there in cash outside the US. So that's, you know, probably one of the reasons why they went there. I mean, why else would Tim Cook and Bezos go to this meeting? I mean, people in Silicon Valley were like, you know, boycott it, they couldn't get it to do it. There's too much greed on the table, but what's your take of that whole meeting? Sideshow, I mean, Trump saying, I gave you a bounce, I mean, come on. Trump gave him a bounce. Trump makes it a sideshow, but that, you know, he's the president-elect. I think you got to go. You know, I think that, you know, business tax reform makes a lot of sense, but on the other hand, you got to do full tax reform and you can't certainly give the rich, you know, bigger tax breaks. This notion that, you know, trickle down economics, it doesn't work, it's proven, right? It really, the big issue we have is the declining middle class on the fact that it's harder for our kids to be successful than it was for us. First time in a long, long time, it happened in the United States, but that's happening. And that's the big problem. And I certainly didn't see anything from Trump or Hillary that really addressed that issue, which is a complicated issue, but it's not, it's not, you know, it's not a Gordian nod. I mean, it's, I mean, you know, if you go back to Obama and John Boehner arguing about the grand bargain, we need a grand bargain here. We can't just say stop immigration or drill baby, drill oil or something. It's really, it's a solvable problem, but not if you take it at peace in time. And I think the fact is it's good that tech people are involved there, but if any of those folks think that they have their own individual that somehow are gonna get a swage, then then we're in trouble because really it's an economic, country-wide problem. And if we solve that properly, tech will flourish and if we don't, tech will do fine, but it won't flourish as much. Okay, so I wanna ask you about, we got a couple of minutes left. I wanna get your final thoughts on the topic of the year, which for the end of closing out, I still got Friday show for the year. State of venture capital. And obviously, you know, I said on the intro, you've been around when it was a handful of firms. Arthur Rocks of the world were around. Jimmy Anderson, legend, Fred Adler, who you worked with. You know, even back then, John Doar was just a young associate. And then now venture capital has completely changed, but that's been the engine of innovation in Silicon Valley is the venture capital and entrepreneurship relationship, the ecosystem of support and support systems. What's your thoughts? What's changed? What's good, bad, and ugly about venture? Is it still the same game, different look and feel thoughts on, you know, the venture capital? Obviously people talk about the asset class. What's your thoughts? Well, I think actually we're coming into a nice period. I think we were leaving an overhyped period, right? We had not only way too much seed investing because they loosened the rules on angel investing. And too many companies got early funding and then couldn't get, you know, a follow on from their seed. We also had the unicorn hype, which sucked money out of secondary venture capital to follow, you know, the primary venture capitalists. And that, you know, didn't work out so well for a lot of people. Obviously some people did. And also, you know, the China bubble has popped a bit. So I think what that means is you're seeing a shuffling a little bit of investors. I mean, you still have the big dogs facing the most glamorous deals and, you know, AI drones and consumer deals that have a billion users, even if they don't have a business model and, you know, self-driving cars and IoT and all those things. But I think my guess is from what I can tell is the preponderance of venture people, you know, not the leaders on Sand Hill Road, but folks across the country and other places are starting to get a little bit more back to meat and potatoes, which is does this really solve a problem? Is this really gonna have profit? And they're looking beyond the, you know, the Sand Hill folks for investments. And so I think that's good too. So you're seeing more instead of, I guess I would say a less lemming effect and more spread out. Real entrepreneurship. In some respects, but I think that's good for the venture business. Great, and thanks so much for the commentary. Quick question, final point, if you could be quick. Who's got coal in their stocking this Christmas and who's got gifts? If you had to look out the landscape of technology, who's got the coal? Who's gonna be, you know, who's naughty, who's nice? Give us your take real quick. Oh geez, you know, I'll tell you right now, for sure. I do think Facebook is gonna continue to be in the cat bird seat overall. I'd still be a bit careful about some of the overhyped things like VR and AR and things like that. Obviously businesses to be built there, but boy, it's not gonna be as easy as people think. All right, Jim Long here on the Silicon Valley Friday Show. Jim, thanks for taking the time out of your busy day for the great holiday. Great sharing, great commentary. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot, John, you too. Okay, that's the Silicon Valley Friday Show with John Furrier wrapping up the year and again, more great stuff next year. We're gonna have every week, every Friday, we're gonna have a show. We're gonna continue the momentum. Can you evolve the format? We're gonna bring guests in, call them up, have them in studio here in Palo Alto. But the goal is in Palo Alto, in Silicon Valley, bringing you the best action here at the Silicon Valley Friday Show in Silicon Angles office in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for listening and have a great, happy new year.