 May 40 here it's so easy to get caught up in our own problems to just be completely overtaken by our own self-absorption but we hardly ever spare a care for what other people are going through so like our own self imagine you're a Mormon missionary and you're a church so you think oh church that's gonna be a safe space right I don't have to worry about anything bad happening to me while I'm in church and then bloody hell the next thing you know you kicked out by a beauty queen and forced to engage in sexual intercourse with her for three days straight while she feeds you your favorite foods I mean it's pretty easy to stay strong like the first time you know some beauty queen is trying to have sex with you but after she's already shackled you and held you down and now it's like the fourth time that she's having it off with you not so easy to stay strong but have you ever have you ever said a prayer for Mormon missionary Kirk Anderson I mean this poor guy was kidnapped by former beauty queen Miss Wyoming when a 1973 Joyce McKinney she was arrested by police after allegedly kidnapping Mormon missionary Kirk Anderson from his church and forced him to be her sex slave for three days so what is such a more dangerous place that we like to think about alright our conscious mind works in a way that we we don't think about the dangers that confront us like when I'm walking down the street my heads often just buried in a block of Torah so I'm walking down the street and next thing I know some beauties queen could be like holding me up at gunpoint and taking me off to some cottage and then shackling me to a bed and then just spread a eagling me and then just having a way with me I mean it could happen to you like it's happened to people and so I've been thinking about how do we how do we avoid getting taken as sex slaves I mean this is one of the the major moral issues of our time but it hardly ever gets talked about like nobody nobody seems to care about the male sex slave right like there are these beauty queens that just waiting around behind every corner 77 former beauty queen Joyce McKinney made headlines when she kidnapped Mormon missionary Kirk Anderson and turned him into her sex slave as you might imagine the so-called case of the man called Mormon made headlines all over the world while kidnapping a missionary is certainly one of the crazier things Joyce McKinney ever did she has made headlines for other behavior so today we're going to take a look at the bizarre life of man called Mormon mastermind Joyce McKinney but before we get started be sure to subscribe to the Weird History channel and let us know in the comments below what a lot of a movie but in reality it all started in a fairly ordinary way Joyce McKinney first met Kirk Anderson in the mid 1970s when they were both students at Brigham Young University this could happen to you in Utah she was studying for her doctorate in drama and had recently converted to the Mormon religion he was an undergraduate and just 19 years old while she was she says she has an IQ of like 168 okay this one was doing a PhD in drama at BYU 25 they became romantically involved and reportedly had a romantic liaison at least once McKinney later claimed this encounter led to a pregnancy and a miscarriage Anderson who was conflicted about the whole thing went to his church to express how he violated his religious beliefs about waiting until marriage before having sex subsequently he decided to leave the country and didn't tell McKinney where he was headed this is where things start getting weirder because in what and and have you ever said a prayer for this guy I mean think about what she did to his soul I mean think about how she imperiled his prospects for the afterlife think about how she interfered with his relationship with his maker do you think that she got in between him and his higher power I would say so but but does anyone care about that so Errol Morris did a terrific 2011 documentary on this story called tabloid and interviews Joyce McKinney at some length when I'm at my quirk it was like in the movies when the girl comes down the stairs and their eyes meet when Gillette looks at Romeo and if that's how it was he had the most beautiful blue eyes and the sexiest smile and he always had the cleanest skin I mean you can see why you get crazy for her I mean let's be honest the guys are serious looker all right this is this is just the type of bloke but a lot of women just go crazy for is about six foot three about 300 pounds and just look at that beautiful skin so I think I can understand why she was losing her mind Kirk Anderson was a very big rather flabby 300 pound six foot three yeah but there's just so much love there there's just so much passion underneath that six foot three 300 pounds of flab and I don't know Mormon woman women in particular often very attractive not athletic or attractive looking man in the accepted sense of the word who had a very shuffly kind of walk the last person in the world you think so this is Peter Tory who was a gossip columnist for the Daily Express the object of this kind of strange sexual passion he had known Joyce McKinney in Salt Lake City and she had fallen in love with him falling over them become obsessed by him because that's another thing about Joyce is obsession I mean he just obsesses about things I don't know what the details okay so you're on Tinder you're on J swipe you meet someone at church who just becomes obsessed with you rather quickly all right warning sign warning sign warning sign all right the more obsessed someone becomes with you the odds are the less they have going on in their life and while it can initially be quite intoxicating and enthralling it generally tends not to work out too well so their relationship was in Salt Lake City but they obviously had some kind of romance or love affair because if wants to believe Joyce at all he had promised a family and children he actually told me he loved me the first night I met him and asked me to marry him the second night yeah well if that happens it must mean he means it and then the next thing I know we're naming our kids and we were gonna name them all with J's and K's J for Joyce K's for Kirk okay so you're getting a sense of crazy all right this happens on a first or second date not a good Joshua Jacob you know we had the names picked out Kyle Kirk yeah so that happens to you probably a good idea to run staring like he's catching flies looking at the window waiting for him to come back so she goes to England to kidnap him out of the car and he goes how long have you been in England like a robot he was almost speaking in a modern voice and he go they said you didn't love me anymore it was like he had a personality alteration Kirk so it's not uncommon when people become more religious they often seem to undergo a personality alteration I've known this in particular with Christians not so often with Orthodox Jews so Jews I've known who are angry and then became Orthodox was still angry Jews who I knew were kind and sweet and then became Orthodox they remain kind and sweet but Judaism's primarily a religion of behavior therefore it allows you to be more true to your emotions and to your passions Christianity is primarily a religion of the heart therefore people can have like a genuine change in heart and it seems like their personalities change number one and Kirk number two Kirk number one was the man I fell in love with. Kirk number two was Kirk. According to all the reports of the time he was driven 250 miles right he was driven to a cottage and then the things that were done to this man in the cottage it just absolutely unspeakable isn't X-mormon. I went back in the kitchen and I got myself a real cold glass of water. Does he still have the erection while he's chanting? Well I came back to be continued I came back in there and I'm thinking am I doing something wrong he started to cry he had ejaculated I guess he said please don't tell him about the filthy place what happened at the. I mean I got a bit I always cry at times like this to filthy place and I said honey what's wrong he goes they'll know I mean every guy in the planet masturbates and has wet dreams and I asked him I said honey don't you have those dreams guys have or whatever they're I remember this woman I used to date said she wanted to take me out to dinner to make amends and so we went out to dinner and she she was in AA and she was I was on her immense list and she apologized for I don't know one time that she'd taken a volume in addition to wine and just like passed out and I didn't know what was going on and I kind of freaked out and I think she enjoyed provoking my jealousy various ways and say we're a couple of love addicts a couple of narcissistic love addicts in a relationship it was predictably turbulent and she went through the fairly small list I mean she was overwhelmingly just good and kind and wonderful to me I have no complaints about Holly no complaints about Holly Randall and our briefly is on in 2006 2007 and so then we have dinner and then we go then I take her to Temple Beth Arm it's a conservative synagogue for shovel what she wanted to go to synagogue see what it's like so we go to Beth Arm so shovel Walt right Friday night it's not a Friday night it's shovel it was a Sunday night that year I believe and the tradition is that you stay up all night studying Torah and so there are all these Torah classes at synagogue Beth Arm and like there was at least one guy there who recognized her and so yeah I got to share some Torah with with Holly we had quite a nice evening and in the course of it like just human to human I had confessed that when I was tempted to masturbate this is a long time ago this was like 15 years ago like an image of my rabbi would come to my mind and I just couldn't do it or when I was like tempted to look at porn like you know my my rabbi's kind of sad disapproving face would just come to my mind and I couldn't act out that way like I thought about how much my rabbi had put his neck out for me I thought about how much surus my rabbi had endured having me in his synagogue thought about all the hours he'd studied Torah with me now I thought about how much he'd sacrifice for me thought about how much my rabbi believed in me then here I was you know about to you know violate my covenant with a sham and just like just be totally gross and you know start cruising pornography on the internet and I just the rabbi's face would just haunt me haunt me and like sometimes my evil wicked lust would overcome me and but I'd still I'd be haunted by the visage of my rabbi and so Holly goes it takes this and turns it into a column in I think xbiz magazine I caught even good Jews masturbate I hope it's still not available online so she gave to me to make amends and boy she really she really stuck the knife in but I can't complain because I wrote her about her quite a bit on my blog and I didn't always clear everything by her so I guess what goes around comes around I've a one of the more embarrassing times of my life yeah I mean there was some who's the who's the great Jewish poet who went to a fairly rigorous yeshiva and then he left it to become just a secular Jewish poet of the turn of the 20th century and his his rabbi at the yeshiva told him yeah you'll go out there into the secular world but you won't be able to enjoy it and so that's the thing when you have a serious relationship with religion it changes you like so even if you relapse and you become secular and you become a hedonistic pleasure seeker and you know you start looking at the porn and you start chasing the shexas you can't really enjoy it right if you have a serious fling with authentic studios that meaning building tight bonds with say particular rabbis who you study Torah with for hundreds of hours and then you go out into into the world you can't really enjoy your sins I mean yeah you can still commit the sins but you can't enjoy them because you still feel the presence like if you've encountered a truly holy man it changes you right you you just you just can't go on you know just the same way completely indifferent right so there was there was a great novelist high and potok who wrote the chosen and some of the novels about growing up in orthodox Judaism and he would go to a lot of the talks and the celebrations led by the Lubava Cherebi and the Lubava Cherebi offered to meet with him but high and potok declined because he was afraid that getting that close to holiness it would inhibit his ability to write freely because when you participate normally in orthodox Judaism or any traditional society you start forming incredibly close bonds with other people and so it then becomes much more difficult to leave the community or to act in ways that would bring shame to the community or would appell people with whom you you've built these bonds people who vouch for you say vouch for you through the conversion process people who stood up for you people who had you at their home for meals people who danced with you people who set you up for Shadukum like dates or matches a possible match to get married people that you've you've worked for and done business with that you you've celebrated simcas you know happy occasions in Judaism that you've been together and sad occasions in Judaism and you form all these type interlocking ties and then you have some genuine experiences of the transcendent you form genuine bonds with with mentors in orthodox Judaism or whatever traditional religious community you're in and then it's really hard to walk away from those ties because when you have that level of intensity of connection with other people you'll tend to carry it with you wherever you go and so you may fry out the Yiddish word for being free free of the obligations of the commandments of God but it'll be really hard to enjoy your sins called because yeah but I didn't tell him in the interview I go what interview they talked to you about this stuff because yeah once a week they take us in rooms by ourselves and they say M1 M2 M3 M1 M2 and 3 I go what's that masturbation once masturbation twice masturbation three times so many times you're out your extra home you're off your mission you can't get married in the temple I go Kirk these people are controlling your sex drive they're controlling your mom they're controlling your food you can't have coffee tea or Pepsi Cola it was a Christian marriage manual which I bought which explained sex to two young virgins there was a section in their own sexual impotence impotence IMPO TENC and it says sometimes if so look I need you and you need me try to stay safe from sexual slavery like it could happen to anyone but if we watch out for each other I think we'll be in much better shape and if you are tempted to fry out right if you're attempted to engage in self-abuse if you're tempted to cruise pornography on the internet no I hope my concerned and pain visage will come to your mind and prevent you from sinning and maybe your seat seat your fringes will fly up and slap you across your face or your your Mormon underwear what will protect you from these converges a guy was very repressed sexually which poor Kirk was Lord knows that you could tie the person up and they could don't say I'll let go you know I can finally let go and make love and so I went there read that was section yeah this woman really did get a PhD in drama it's real bro it's academic it's at Brigham Young University really quick speed read it so mom is make a lot of great movies well I mean I'm told that they're pretty good probably helps if you're Mormon but they are into moviemaking I know the seventh-day Adventists have at least one satellite channel so a lot of these traditional religions have embraced the media for for providing spiritual sustenance for their flock and to try to attract converts and I come back and I said honey we're gonna try some of these exercises and so we did we made love actually for three days we sort of like didn't get out of bed it was the honeymoon that's what it was for me this could happen to you right if we're not careful this this some beauty queen will come along and carry us into sexual slavery I wanted us to have a good sex life I wanted to be a good wife to Kirk and I wanted to give him lots of babies in my tummy I didn't look at sex is a bad thing with him I looked at it as a melting of two souls because when he kissed me it was like we melted into one person it was like I didn't know where I stopped and he began we were lying there holding hands and his little missionary glasses okay so and mashman it sounds wonderful not knowing where you stop and other people begin but take it from me I've been in that state many times it leads to absolute misery so one of the first things that happened when I started going regularly to psychotherapy in the spring of 1998 is that my therapist gave me a handout on boundaries and that was the first time I think I'd heard about the term and the concept of boundaries and becoming clear about where I ended other people begin so I was like way over boundary with a lot of people I would share inappropriately I would be you know overly physical I remember I heard secondhand I made one girl cry because I was hitting on her so aggressively I would say inappropriate things a kid ish so the Jewish celebratory occasion on the Sabbath so out of control no boundaries and learning the concept probably helped a little bit but it was actually years and years and years later for my whole central nervous system come down through doing 12-step work particularly with regard to love addiction and sex addiction and porn addiction so when I calm down then then boundaries started to develop naturally we're kind of askew and he goes guess we're married in God's eyes I go yep we are he says guess we better make it official he said let's go into London and let's get married we took the real car we went into town to London and we saw Trafalgar Square they had like pigeons we fed the pigeons and so I said oh Kirk we've got this cool cafe we want to take to this called the hard rock right it sounds like an amazing love story right I mean what what could possibly go wrong here most people would agree is a minor violation of privacy McKinney proceeded to hire a private detective to track Anderson down when she found out he was in England on his Mormon mission she followed him there with a friend named Keith May McKinney confronted Anderson on the steps of a Mormon church holding what appeared to be a real gun she marched him to her car where she and May used chloroform to knock Anderson out they then drove to a rented countryside home in England there she reportedly handcuffed Anderson to a bed with mink line handcuffs where do you get mink line handcuffs that's the real misery McKinney left Anderson tied to the bed for several days during that period she had intercourse with him several times and later she claimed that he agreed to marry her which she seemed to believe was a decision he made on his own instead of as a prisoner held at gunpoint after three days however Anderson was able to free himself and flee mink handcuffs was not that secure from there he went straight to the police after talking with Anderson British authorities arrested McKinney for kidnapping him but in a twist that might seem somewhat shocking to our more modern sensibilities she did not face partial charges in fact under British law at the time there was no such thing as a sexual crime charge with a victim was a man when McKinney was out on bail awaiting her trial the young woman embraced the British tabloid to in turn embraced her right back there was a worldwide news frenzy and the media nicknamed her madam mayhem instead of facing justice for the crime she committed she actually made a significant amount of money selling her story to the tabloids she appeared on the covers of the Daily Express in the Daily Mirror at the exact same time each with similar stories the Daily Express reportedly paid her 40,000 pounds in cash for her tale the equivalent of roughly 225,000 so this could happen to you some beauty queen could capture you have her absolute way with you do everything she wants you're just manacled there helpless spreading good of the bed and then then she caches in but what about you on the summer what about your soul maybe she crushed your soul okay this is in Devon and I was at a church member's house never so this is a terrific 2012 2011 documentary by Earl Morris on Joyce McKinney and her escapades is called tabloid for a younger couple and they sort of sat down and told us the whole story of Joyce McKinney and the manacled Mormon it reminds me of those of those cultures that have stories of the vagina of dentata the women with the tooth the vagina they become cautionary tales about sexual impropriety the dangerous powers of women women that can seduce a young missionary who are on God's errand a young man once they received what's called the Melchizedek priesthood they're endowed with power from on high they go through we go through hey didn't Melky get the Melchizedek priesthood I mean Alfred and Casey Godwood's podcast did he get Melchizedek's priesthood I went through an elaborate endowment through the Mormon temples where we received a sacred underwear and sacred knowledge of keys to heaven you reenact the Garden of Eden scenario and there's an actor that performs Lucifer and he says in a menacing tone those of you who don't live up to the covenants that you make on the altar of the temple this day will be in my power and one of the covenants that you make is the law of chastity that you will only have sexual relationships with he or she to whom you are legally and lawfully wedded manacled Mormon sex slave wrecks that doesn't it completely wrecks that if Kirk Anderson was a willing manacled Mormon he will have violated his temple covenants violated the law of chastity what he risks is excommunication from the church and greater than that unless he repents he won't be able to ultimately become a god yeah so sure three days of crazy sex with with the beauty queen sure on the face of it it could sound very enticing but what if you get excommunicated from your church and you never get to become a god then then I mean those three days with a beauty queen just by comparison seem like nothing and have his own planet you don't even get your own planet then has Mormon theology that's what they're working towards I got this weird phone call I had an answering service it said it's been really crazy here but I finally got him off my back I still love you call me urgent epson 257 24 urgent well the police don't really buy her story she's arrested she's in prison for three months like down slave she would say to them down slave down slave but which you said it's humorously joking but but he did occur to us at the time this is all the language of the world of bondage I'm an expert but I mean I assume that you are but it's all this kind of master mistress power thing domination thing that seems to run through this whole story it seems to be a theme he's had probably an obsession for Joyce just like Joyce had an obsession for her the fact that he was just able to be around her and helping her where he could satisfied his emotions and this could happen to you yeah watch out there are tabloids out there in England that are Phil Phil the top of the list would be the daily mirror okay so this is classic there are tabloids that out out there that are Phil but does Meryl Streep end up in the tabloids all the time do you know God fearing hard-working people to keep their nose clean end up in the tabloids what kind of people get ridiculed on Kiwi farms are kind of people get ridiculed in the tabloids people who are behaving badly you don't behave badly not likely to be the object of mirth and scorn and ridicule in the tabloids or in life in general right when you are a pompous ass when you hurt other people they will respond so for example let's say you're in your office and you're playing something on your computer loudly so it's interfering with other people right nine times out of 10 they won't even bother to tell you because it's take strength and energy and it's aggravating and who wants to deal with the positive or negative side consequences from from telling you that you're you know harming other people but if you're playing something so loud that it's annoying interfering with what other people trying to do around you you are harming them and 90% of the time people won't even bother to tell you and then that that 10% of the time they tell you if you react by hating them and blowing them off and escalating right you're going to go into a negative spiral so every time that someone reproves you and particularly if they're accurate just think there are 10 more times where you behave similarly badly but no one's had the energy to confront you about what you're doing so we affect other people and when we get some feedback on the negative effect that we're having on others then we need to be alert to it the the more simple approach the self-serving approach is to think all the problems with them if they're making fun of me but what have I done to put myself to be an objective man the Daily Mirror had meantime had their reporters in Los Angeles digging up all this stuff about her activities as a as a call girl but as a wife but she was I mean she was she was being paid paid yeah so many years before she kidnapped this guy she was a call girl but no one ever had sexual intercourse with her she would do bondage and she would give oral sex and she'd pose naked but she would never have full-on intercourse for sexual services but this was all long before escapades in the UK this was early earlier Joyce McKinney history they had a tip I think it was from a police officer in London to one of our London reporters was covering the story you say that it might be worth looking up and address that we know she had in Los Angeles and so yeah she was a lovely blow-dryer your hair and then give you a delicious nude massage on a fur covered waterbed your fantasy is a speciality SNM B&D escort service nude wrestling modeling erotic phone calls dirty panties or pictures now your fantasy or speciality to Joey she wasn't quite so yes Joey says our love shy boys dirty old men and sugar daddies I can believe what I was doing McKinney I could not believe that that was quite as innocent services but that was only the beginning because once we had all of that we then had to start thinking who's got pictures of all this right so the tabloids often do a public service right you can find you can find sections of the Talmud says it's a mitzvah to expose hypocrites it was only when he named that photographer who said I've never photographed Joyce McKinney I have no idea who she is and I said well a conflict to a friend of mine and a friend of hers she always came on what an assignment with a dog he dug out some magazines soon as I saw and I said that's her took that away of the job well done we were getting somewhere so I often listen to modern orthodox scholar Mark Shapiro and he said once in a 2008 lecture for an emotion on the lives of the good old of the great rabbis he says if you read my bog blogs to see that I'm a relentless exposure of the fraudulence not just in the Haredi war in the modern orthodox war it all needs to be exposed that doesn't mean that every single person needs to know as Ralph Cook says if they come into our world and try to affect us with their fraudulent stories it needs to be exposed but if they want to live by these buber mice as old wives tales that's the way of life so only if it threatens to interfere in the wider community does it deserve to be exposed I'm like Rabbi Slifkin Natan Slifkin in this regard so it's hard to know what Lishan Harar gossip is you don't really know what Lishan Harar is I've read many letters of gadolim but they are full of negative comments about other rabbis which you would say in the face of it is Lishan Harar they add mouth each other all the time if you ask the Rav he would say it's not Lishan Harar the Torah says you have to expose Hanafim the hypocrites and flatterers so this admonition to expose hypocrites is stated in Yomah 86b where it is derived from the legal category of Helul Hashem desecrating God's name so we are supposed to expose hypocrisy so if you ask all these rabbonom these rabbis who say terrible things about other rabbis for great Torah scholars and you ask them they would say no this is not Lishan Harar because this rabbi is a fraud and I have to expose him now it could be that he's not a fraud it's just a personal dispute I don't think it's Lishan Harar to talk about a dispute that the whole world knew about it was in all the newspapers if a certain Rav did a bad thing now there's a Rav not a gadol of the first calibre but of the second calibre get a child out of wedlock when he was 17 and in Yeshiva about 20 years ago when the Israeli newspapers exposed him and published the birth certificate think that's a terrible breach of privacy says Mark Shapiro made a mistake when he was young I don't think it's anyone's business I would never expose something like that now if there was a case like this where he abandoned the girl wanted nothing to do with them and then he became a big scholar the Talmud Hockham a wise man in Gomorrah I don't think that's long Sean Harar that would be an example of exposing the hypocrites so Mark says I try to balance Jewish values with secular values as a secular historian you go into a grave and you dig out the body if you need to I'd have no problem as a secular historian if I was writing about a figure you know who was who was secular like Einstein but among the Dolom I don't do that I can honestly say I've never had to make that choice with Rabbi Yakov Yahio Weinberg I'd rather not write about somebody than have to cover up something embarrassing certain great rabbinic figures I would treat differently than other figures that's not in correspondence with historical analysis what are they going to do take my tenure away life is not only about the historical craft that's Mark Shapiro there so you're probably wondering what does Tucker Carlson have to say good evening welcome to Tucker Carlson tonight it's hard to think of a topic in American life that's more the divisive than abortion abortion's in the news today obviously but most Americans no matter where they stand on it or how passionately they feel about it don't really want to talk about it because it's just too painful so with that in mind for once night we're gonna open this show with an issue that unites all of us and it's democracy everybody in America is for democracy democracy is the basis of our political system both parties support democracy strongly they often say so and of course the alternative to democracy is bad it's tyranny and nobody's for that so it's heartening to learn that preserving democracy is the main idea really the only idea behind Justice Samuel Alito's draft opinion on the Roe v. Wade decision virtually everyone in the country has heard about Alito's 98 page opinion since it was leaked on Monday night to Politico and yet at the same time for all the talking about it almost nobody seems to have any idea what is in it nobody's actually read it partisans on television keep describing Sam Alito as a hater somebody just hates women and hates rights a sadist whose only pleasure is extinguishing human freedom and happiness both of which of course are predicated on abortion that's what they're saying about Alito now we're not familiar with Sam Alito's soul so we can't confirm or deny this other way but we can tell you having actually read his opinion that there is no hint of any of this in what he has written in fact there's not even an attack on abortion he could be pro-choice for all we know Samuel Alito merely argues that Americans have the right to vote on how abortion is regulated and for nearly 50 years Roe v. Wade has prevented voters from doing that it has taken that right from them that's it that's the sum total of the supposedly controversial opinion by Samuel Alito and if you don't believe it here so that opinion concludes quote the Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each state from regulating or prohibiting abortion Roe and the Casey decision abrogated that authority we now overrule those decisions and returned that authority to the people and their elected representatives and quote now as a factual matter not that facts seem to matter too much but if you cared about him you couldn't really argue with that claim because the Constitution does not in fact prohibit American voters from banning abortion or for that matter does not prohibit American voters from legalizing abortion because the US Constitution doesn't mention abortion or allude to it in any way and anyone who claims that it does as the Roe decision claims is lying to you read the document for yourself it's online so why exactly is everybody so mad at Samuel Alito it's strange because what Alito is proposing here is the very definition of democracy we've got a bitter disagreement in this case over abortion both sides have a case to make they can take that case to the public in the end the public gets to decide who's right by voting on it that's called self-government since when is that scary well since one side decided that self-government is too risky and had to be eliminated now they couldn't say this out loud of course because as we told you right so populism means that you believe in the virtue of the people progressivism leftism means that you believe in rule by elites now elites and leftists and progressives and communists and socialists they don't want to say they are against the people and they don't believe in the virtue of the people so they have to get all mealy-mouthed about why we need rule by experts so let's check out this video here dissecting apologetics for islamic sex slavery and we've got very different perspectives today let's see how far they diverge or where they agree it's kind of a mystery so far but before we begin I want you to think of the following as you listen to their explanations of such controversial issues in Islam number one is he answering the question number two is he using unnecessary words excessively I mean we all use some filler words here and there but you know what I mean number three is he using what about ism that's when you point to other things and you say what about so-and-so rather than actually addressing the point and number four is he using the third person excessively we'll see what I mean there and one more thing this is a bonus just for dr. Shabir he keeps saying classical thought classical font I don't want you to be tricked into thinking that classical font means some kind of school thought that was dead a thousand years ago no this is the consensus today what I'm looking for in his videos is some kind of new perspective that is from the Quran because his channel is called let the Quran speak so we will let the Quran speak as always and we'll see what the Quran says about such classical thoughts and what are the non-classical thoughts that should replace them from the Quran hopefully so yeah thank you for being here if you'd like to support me further links are in the description all that stuff it's just a little heartbreaking to have to have to dig after these men who get paid to spew this nonsense but let's let's see what they have to say we'll start with dr. Shabir's video called slavery in Islam sex slavery and contrabandage let me know if the audio is all good we've spoken about slavery before I want us to revisit that topic because I feel like and I think we both felt that way that we hadn't completed talking about it and there were some unfinished questions that we need to answer and one of those is about you know agency and ownership and the fact that you know in the Islamic classical law it seems like one can own a slave so can you talk to me about that a little bit yeah and this is rooted in the Quran itself but to put that into perspective it's important for us to again recapture the the overall approach of Islam to the question and the problem of slavery at the time when the Quran was revealed as we have surveyed among the world's ancient religions while the world's major religions which have ancient roots we've seen that the religions generally do not condemn the institution of slavery as so from the beginning he says yes it is based on the Quran and by the way what about all the other religions that do not condemn slavery as an institution go ahead as soon as well the other religions take place in history right so everything takes place in history at a particular time and place and until about 200 years ago slavery was just the way the world worked and you may not like it but it was just rooted in in the human condition the strong take the weak and force the weak to do what the strong want right that's how the world generally works the strong take what they want the weak endure what they must it's the nature of reality now you could say our religion should protest reality more but you're not going to have much effect when you deny reality what you can try to do is ameliorate take some of the rougher edges off maybe encourage people in a different direction but it's pretty hard to outright ban things that are just become the nature of reality is that mentioned in the Quran that other religions don't condemn slavery I don't think that's mentioned in the Quran in the whole but in various ways various religions have tried to make amends to the difficulties that slaves were going through and there are some accommodations for a better life for for slaves but and of course we've seen some very harsh rulings as well from some of the world's religions regarding how slaves might be treated now with that background in mind we should see that religion isn't magic religion can't come into reality and just completely transform it right at most it can nudge people in a different direction it can start to provide some precepts that that for example in Torah that make slavery just such a pain that Jews by and large had abandoned slavery 2000 years ago right Jews who stopped earning slaves about 1800 2000 years ago because for example the Torah command if you've only got one pillow you have to give it to your slave if you've only got you know one jacket it has to go to your slave and what's called slavery in the bible is really more indentured servitude it's not slavery like in the american south pride of the civil war the Quran was actually bringing about reforms in in this whole institution first of all the so yes the Quran doesn't door slavery but it did bring reform is what he's saying i'm a piece of eponymous reported to have forbidden for anyone to conduct so this apostate Aladdin is shocked and appalled that an 8th century document is not up to date with 21st century morality right it's it's naive and bizarre to think the document written 1400 years ago it's going to be up to date with morality today and was considered moral and immoral today doctor slave raid so you couldn't go raid a tribe to seize their people and make them slaves oh the how generous of you prophet Muhammad you can't go to free people and make them slaves that's just the you know type of generosity right there what he neglects to mention is that in any sort of conflict or war well human nature is to take what you can right that's human nature human nature is to take free people and turn them into slaves if you can get away with it human nature is for the strong to exert their will to take what they want and so to the extent that Islam or Judaism or Christianity is acted to to smooth some of the rough edges and to reduce the natural tendency of the strong to take what they want i think that's a positive contribution to humanity and this guy apostated laden is condemning it for not living up to modern morality muslims are allowed to take the other sides of children and women as slaves and men as well but the women especially as a special kind of slave which let's remind you of the title sex slavery so far we're not talking about that specifically but thankfully Muhammad said don't go to free people and make them slaves so that by itself would dry up a major source of the increase of the slave population and if the slave population is kept as it is and eventually slaves are freed one after another as stipulated in the Quran then they say so morality is profoundly effect but affected by what's going on around us since about 1980 pornographers are often quite eager to tell you that they have nothing to do with child porn but when pornographers could get away with child porn up until 1977 up until congress now to say it's congress passed severe rules against child porn you could get child porn in most every sex shop right so the reason that the big photographers since 1977 that haven't dealt in child porn by and large is that they can no longer get away with it so there are all sorts of things that we can't get away with that we may feel you know virtuous about but the reason that we don't participate in that bad behavior is that we can no longer get away with it so the me too movement has reshaped sexual morality so in the late 1960s and in the 1970s there was a lot of you know sexual free-for-all as we had the advent of the pill and the reduction of traditional sexual mores then there was a backlash of feminism and a backlash of sexual harassment and now an additional backlash of the me too movement because just allowing men to have all the sex that they can legally exact from women where they obtain you know legal consent is not in women's interest not in society's interests so the coolly predatory sex life that many men would like to have is clearly anti-social and there's going to be blowback for it so a population itself will dry up so here's the problem with that so he is trying to make Islam to be faultless in this so he says this dried up one of the main sources of slavery but he neglected to mention that there were still slaves being bought and sold so you could still buy a slave in Islam that's not how regardless of how they became a slave that's not even in the question you don't go to a slave he's not a disinterested academic scholar right this is a representative of Islam so of course he's going to try to present Islam in the best light possible just like jamp sake Joe biden's spokeswoman tries to present the president in the best light possible Dave market in those times and ask how are you enslaved to be a good sir or dear good ma'am oh okay you are taken as a free woman i cannot buy you that's not part of the stipulation and secondly what happens to children of slaves now there's a lot that can be said about that i'm going to put links in the in the description but in short they don't just go free so if it's the children of two slaves belong to the slave owner so that's a new slave being brought to the world and so on there's nothing harm or illegal Islamically in having slaves who make more slaves there's if a man has intercourse with his slave and she brings him a child that slave look all good people are enslaved to something everybody's a slave to something bad person medium person good person we're all slave to something so pretty much everybody has some kind of master right that's just wired into the human condition now i'm glad that the western world has largely gotten rid of slavery but i recognize how intrinsic it's been to the human condition until recently in the west because the strong naturally take what they want child is supposed to be free if he owns up to it and she is right so this guy with the analysis is talking about what should be in the world right there'd be many wonderful things if we could fly if we could have all the love we wanted all the sex we wanted all the fame and power possessions wealth security that we wanted right we should be this we should be that right it seems like the imam here is talking about the nature of reality more than this secular critic is freed after he dies she's not free while he's alive however if he marries that slave a female slave to somebody else the children become his slaves and he says that the old like one of the biggest sources is taken away which is literally just walking up to a tribe and taking them as slaves so where do you find slavery in the world today you do find a great deal of it in the Islamic world so how merciful of you Muhammad and when he says that had people followed Islam the correct way slavery would have eroded or disappeared i'm not putting words in his mouth but that's basically what he meant then whose fault is it but the designer of such a flawed system who knows exactly how humans behave and knows the future so dependent on humans rather than the creator of the system is uh is shortsighted one avenue that remain was prisoners of war because that's not the one avenue that remained as i've just demonstrated children of slaves are slaves we have already explained the earliest Muslim community did not have a prison a place to house the prisoners of war and therefore the prisoners of war were distributed within the society as domestic servants and they did not have domestic servants is putting it lightly you'll see a lot of sugarcoating in this man's words domestic servants they're uh full legal right as a free person but they hold up hold up say that again war were distributed within the society as domestic servants and they did not have their uh full legal rights as a free person that's putting it lightly so they were domestic servants and they didn't have their full legal rights as a person as a free person just say they were slaves why are you trying to bolster us But they had every other legal right as a human and as a... Oh, they had the right to exist and eat and drink and sleep. That's plenty generous. An individual to the extent that the Prophet Muhammad pleased me upon him and joined on the persons who had these domestic servants that they are to feed. Okay, you can watch the whole video. I've linked to it in this video description. So I was looking at ons.com and Philip Girardi is a regular columnist there. He's an ex-CIA officer and you'll notice this with a lot of ex-CIA officers. They come out of their service for America with a passionate hatred for Israel. Just a rabid, seemingly beyond all good sense, hatred of the Jewish state. So why does this so happen? Often happen to people who used to serve in the CIA and it's because they generally see America's support for Israel as strongly against America's best interests. They see United States foreign policy being severely warped by America's support for Israel and so after feeling like they've been screwed around for several decades as CIA officers, they leave the CIA and go all anti-Israel. So Philip Girardi's no exception. He's got a column today. Does Israel permit freedom of worship? Palestinian Christians will soon be extinct. Extinct, well, the primary reason that Christians will soon be extinct to the extent that that's true in the Middle East is not because of the Jewish state. It's not because of Israel. Israel is not carrying out genocides against Christians in the Middle East. That's primarily being done by Muslims. So Israel has limits on religious expression. For example, it limits severely limits proselytizing. You really can't proselytize in Israel because proselytizing can very quickly become political. You change someone's identity. You change in-group, out-group dynamics. You change the relative power of groups when you have sizable numbers converting from one religion to another. And that creates instability. So it's just amusing. Philip Girardi writes this column that Palestinian Christians will soon be extinct when the primary reason that Christians will be extinct in the Middle East is not because of Jews and the Jewish state. And the column kind of reminds us that diversity isn't always a strength. Many nation states in the Middle East, they don't want a diverse nation. Most people, most places in the world regard diversity as a severe weakness because diversity means that we don't have much in common with each other. So you would think that the more you have in common with your fellow citizens, the better off you are. That is homogeneity. That is the opposite of diversity. So the way the world works is that diversity, generally speaking, tends to reduce social cohesion and social trust. It tends to make communities more unwieldy to help people to feel more afraid of each other, to feel less connection with each other. So the healthy way to go through life is to think about what you have in common with those you're interacting with. But the more you encounter diversity, the more incentives you will get to keep your head down and stay home more and just watch television instead of, say, volunteering or getting out into the wider society. So you'll see in the United States, those cities that have the most volunteering are the whitest cities, like Salt Lake City. And the more diverse the city, like Los Angeles and New York, there's relatively low levels of social cohesion, social trust and volunteering. People, they're going to volunteer. They're going to usually just do it to look after their own. But the wiping out of Christianity in the Middle East is not really an exception in history. It's a very common theme in history. Not many states think that they're stronger states because they have a multiplicity of religions or multiplicity of moral codes. The more you have in common with your fellow citizens, usually the stronger you'll be. Dr. Mark Shapiro, scholar of modern Jewish thought, is doing a long series for Torah in motion on the rise of Reformed Judaism and the Orthodox rabbinic response. So here he talks about a technique used by many Orthodox rabbis. They try to lad on the severity of the sin by saying it's not just a rabbinic commandment, rabbinic meaning made about 2,000 years ago, but a biblical commandment meaning coming from the Torah, giving it Mount Sinai according to the Jewish tradition about 3,000 years ago. He says, in my opinion, it is incorrect to say that you can raise the level of an Isser. The Lomaro Isser lotase grade to say about a lotase. So an Isser is that which is forbidden. And so some Orthodox rabbis hold that you should not lie to try to promote observance of Judaism. Other rabbis hold, well, telling a lie, that's really a small thing compared to the greater good of getting Jews to do a mitzvah. It's a lotase, it's a lotase, it's a lotase, it's a lotase. And then he continues, he says, even though we see that the sages, the Chosmos Umar Israel says would exaggerate. We know that the rabbis exaggerate. The Rambam already says that. So, and he brings some example here. We see exaggerations negative and positive. They say this is the worst in the world. They say if you observe this mitzvah, it's like all 613 mitzvot. He says, in quotes to Rambam is saying they did this to instill upon people how significant it was. And so it says, and there's things where they say that you're high of misa and it's like you worshiped idolatry. That we know already that the rabbis would say it's like you worshiped idolatry or it's like you fulfilled all the mitzvah. So it's like you violated all the other things like that. But then he says that. So high of misa means that you're worthy of death. So it is a common form of rabbinic overstatement. These are just, you mean muhafqi. These are just ways of threatening people and instilling on them fear, not to violate it. Avalomara isradarabona shu isradarabona. But if you're going to tell me that an isradarabona is an isradarabona, the Rambam says, and it was a manrain, that you violated Balthosif. If you say to someone that a rabbinic commandment, it's a Torah commandment, you violated Balthosif, which is a Torah commandment. You're getting you're violating. Keven shayn al-asur-raqmi-durabonan. Asur-al-al-marsh-asur-minitara. And then you can't say it's an asur-minitara. Then he says it's also mitzvah-shakr-tirakhah. Right, so there are plenty of prohibitions in Judaism against lying, but everything has to be weighed up. So all values operate within a constellation. So there's the value of truth, and then there's the value of getting someone to do a mitzvah. These are values that are in conflict. So Mark Shapiro published a terrific book called Changing the Immutable. How Orthodox Judaism Rewrites its History. And chapter eight is titled, Is the Truth Really That Important? So what happened to the truth? Isn't the truth an important value in the Jewish tradition? If it is, how come so many people, many of them quite pious justify their lying? So under normal circumstances, truth is an important value in Judaism. So you've got all these biblical verses and rabbinic verses praising the values of truth. Now Ibn Ezra, who was a medieval Jewish commentator, he says, even on occasion, prophets will tell untruths. And he gives an example of Abraham says to those who accompany him, and he intends to offer Isaac as a bird offering, I and the lad will go yonder, we will worship, and we will come back to you. That's Genesis chapter 22. So Abraham was not yet ready to tell Isaac and the others the truth. And so he uttered a foresoot. Ibn Ezra notes that had Abraham told the youth, told the truth, Isaac could possibly have fled. So the whole issue of truth-telling in the context of Jewish law comes to the fore in a dispute between Rabbi Moshe Sofair and Rabbi Svi Hirsch Hire. So the issue that precipitates this was the question of delayed burial. So in 1772, Duke Friedrich of Mecklenburg, Schwerin, responded to the possibility of burying people prematurely when they were still alive. And you'll see a story on the Drudge Report this week about some woman who was being buried in Peru. She'd been in a car accident, and as they're getting ready to bury her, she starts knocking on the coffin. So the Duke had issued an order requiring Jews in his realm to wait three days before burying their dead. Now, the traditional Jewish custom is to bury the dead as quickly as possible, usually within a day or so of death. Now, a Jewish apostate had influenced the Duke in this matter, convinced him that the practice of early burial was not of great importance in Judaism. So the local Jewish community, believing that this ordinance violated Jewish law, wrote to both Rabbi Jacob Emden and Moses Mendelssohn, a forerunner of informed Judaism, requesting their expert opinions. And they wanted to use these opinions to have this secular law revoked. Now, Rabbi Emden replied that one could not abandon the traditional Jewish practice of immediate burial because of some kind of far-fetched concern that someone who appears dead is really alive. Now, it is German-ledded to the Duke. Moses Mendelssohn agreed with Emden that delaying burial was in opposition to Jewish law. Now, this letter was sent for the sake of Jewish solidarity, but it did not reflect Mendelssohn's true view, which appears in a Hebrew letter he sent to the community leaders. So he says one thing to the Duke who's not Jewish says another thing to the Jewish community. So this is very common among all those with strong in-group identities. So in the letters of the community he said that the Duke's requirement was not against Jewish law. And he caught attention at the various times when it is permitted to postpone a burial. But if in these cases the rabbis permitted a body to lie unburied overnight, then certainly if there remains the slightest doubt that he may still be alive, he should not be buried. So Mendelssohn argued that the contemporary practice of immediate burial was opposed to the ancient Jewish tradition. So the old Jewish practice was to place the debt in caves and catacombs, where the body was watched for three days to see if there were any signs of life. So according to Mendelssohn, what the Duke wanted was nothing more than that the Jews returned to their old ways of doing things. Now in the decades after Moses Mendelssohn, there were many reformed Jews who supported this step. They viewed it as in line with modern science. And in response to these reformed sentiments that rabbis so far took his strong stand in opposition to any altering of the traditional practice. So when you don't have the rise of reformed Judaism, Orthodox rabbis are generally much more lenient. But in the face of the rise of reformed Judaism, Orthodox rabbis will be much more likely to make a stand. Here I stand, I can do no other. So help me God to quote the Protestant reformer, Martin Luther. So Rabbi Sofer wrote to Rabbi Hayes, saying, Rabbi Hayes appeared to think there's nothing wrong with delaying burial if it's thought medically necessary. Rabbi Sofer asserted that one who does not bury a corpse immediately is violated. Two Torah commandments, one positive command, one negative. Now Rabbi Hayes replies that Rabbi Sofer is mistaken in his assumption that one would violate two Torah commandments. One does not violate a positive command, but therefore he was within his rights in claiming so. Further, Rabbi Sofer notes since there is no practical difference whether or not a prohibited act is a violation of one or two Torah commandments, it is good to raise, to intensify the prohibition. So it is good to exaggerate and to lie to try to intensify a prohibition in Jewish law. To discourage breaking Jewish law, it's often advisable to make the sin appear much worse than it really is. So this whole notion of intensifying the level of prohibition is a very common tactic among Orthodox rabbis. For a reason, and he ends, the Marks he ends, the chazal, diktiku, b'choh, islamo, there is any other Torah, and he says that chazal we're always very careful to determine and to let us know when it's the Dura'isa, when it's Dura'banan, and really it has no significant, no real difference, we have to follow all of them and yet the rabbis were very careful to let us know. Okay, very strong response to Chasim Sofer, but my own, my response to Maraschais is, you said Maraschais, that it's usur to say about an Isser Dura'banan, that it's an Isser Torah. Where does the Chasim Sofer say that? He doesn't say that at all. Chasim Sofer never says that he says, Toval haWo sasa Isser, and he's talking about a case where there's a, where most assume that it's only a negative commandment, and the Ramban says it's a positive and a negative commandment, and then he says that in that case, since at least the Ramban says that it's Toval haWo sasa Isser, and then he speaks about how you can't, you should not rely on these rejected views, I guess, you would say that hold that certain things about Shabbos are only Dura'banan, because that will lead people to reject it, and if it certainly don't say publicly that it's only a rabbinic prohibition, even if you think so. But where does the Chasim Sofer say here that Toval haWo sasa Isser means that you take a rabbinic prohibition, and you are haWo sasa Isser, you increase that and help people with Torah prohibition. He doesn't say it anywhere. The Chasim Sofer says that the Marat's Isser is wrong. As far as I can see, he's accusing the Chasim Sofer of saying something which the Chasim Sofer doesn't say. Yes, the Chasim Sofer says to raise the level of an Isser. He's saying that we take a rabbinic prohibition, and since people don't listen to the rabbinic prohibition, tell them it's a Torah prohibition. It's true that he continues the Chasim Sofer and talks about how the people they don't pay attention to it. He doesn't say, therefore, tell them it's a Torah prohibition. What he's saying is that the Nobihuda shouldn't have come out with a header based on the fact that non-Jewish writing is Dura'banan. And in general, you don't need the Dura'banan means from the rabbis later on and less powerful in popular understanding than if you can trace a prohibition to the Bible, to the Torah. So, Rabbi Hayas replied to Sofer that it's not proper, essentially, to lie. He says, yeah, the Talmudic sages would sometimes exaggerate the level of the prohibition saying that one is subject to the heavenly death penalty for many violations. Yet this is only by way of threats to put the fear of sin into people. So Rabbi Hayas understands Rabbi Sofer to be including in his raising the prohibition the notion that one can also say that something is Biblically prohibited but in reality the prohibition is only rabbinic. So Hayas sees this as a violation of the prohibition against adding to the Torah so there's a verse in the Torah that says do not add to my words nor subtract from them as well as a violation of the Biblical commandment to keep far from a false matter. That one might have a good reason for the deception is not sufficient in the eyes of Rabbi Hayas to sanction any distortion but as you know if you have any acquaintance with activists they lie all the time to try to make their case more powerful and to gain more influence and money and prestige and fame for themselves. So in wider western world politics we see an elite making alliances with often the middle class but if not the middle class with some sections of the upper class and the lower classes to retain power and you see rabbis trying to gain as much power as possible so the general rules for any profession whether it's the rabbinate or doctor or accountant is that pretty much every profession wants to raise its rates, raise its power raise its prestige and make competition with it more difficult and so rabbis are like any other profession they want more power, more prestige more money more influence, more say you need to tell them about every rabbinic prohibition it's only a rabbinic prohibition that's not the same thing as telling that means you're not telling them that it's a rabbinic prohibition but that's not the same thing as actually telling them okay blessings to Elliott Blatt blessing bro how are you doing rock a sham good show, stop broken very good excellent but now you're already transitioning into the low IQ portion of the show yes everybody get ready yes Elliott Blatt and the low IQ yeah what a set expectations you know what I mean I realize there's some galaxy brain people out there that want to hear about the Torah and rabbis and all that stuff so if I'm finding them I'm sorry so bro listen I did it man I've made the choice I jumped off the ledge I came to the BS and I decided to jump in what you bought four months of subscription to the four months bro four months of sensory deprivation tank experience bro I just completed day two and how much well it's 500 bucks a month so you get one a day you know which is more or less all you can take and yeah so I'm gonna I'm gonna milk this though I'm gonna get every single day sounds like you got a bargain and what kind of insights are you getting from this oh well good I'm glad you asked bro so I went in there with intention bro you know I'm like I'm not just jumping in the water bro I'm going in there with a purpose and I'm like alright I'm gonna calm my mind I'm gonna purify my heart I'm gonna clear my mind I'm going to get closer to God I'm gonna contemplate my flaws and you know think about how I can improve as a human being and that's all I'm gonna do as I'm sitting there as I'm lying in there buoyant and so that's what I'm gonna do so like five minutes ten minutes it's pretty hard to do you know it's pretty hard to like maintain a sustained focus on your flaws you know yeah so yeah I was you know I had endeavored to do that I managed to do like ten minutes then I started thinking well who's gonna win the Kentucky Derby and that became like the most dominant thought in my head and I couldn't shake it bro so I was contemplating all of the nuances of the Kentucky Derby and I was trying to like come up with a winner so I did this for like 15 minutes straight so I kind of got off track bro but you know it's a practice life's a practice you fall you get on the horse you fall off the horse you get on the horse you fall off the horse so I fall off the horse but I do have some insights about the Derby if you're interested okay uh yeah okay Tava bro he's like he's 12 to 1 now he's gonna be like 8 to 1 at post time he's a lock dude 8 fold your money right there you heard it here first okay are you excited bro you're speechless you have me to thank bro you have me to thank I mean it sounds like you're gonna be able to make your money back I'm gonna get all the floats plus some bro just from just from being in the tank the Derby yeah so I think it was a pretty good allocation of time I did about what about the inner reflection what about the inner growth I mean did you return to that or were you just hooked on the Derby the whole time it was like checking channels it was like switching channels you know like in the old days with the like the manual TVs with like channel 6 channel 7 channel 8 and you're clicking back and forth so I was in this period where I was flicking back and forth go back to God go back to God but what about the Derby what about the Derby go back to God go back to God the Derby you know I'm flicking through you know and this is basically the essence of my inner struggle you know yeah and so unfortunately the Derby went out for like 45 45 minutes of the 60 minutes but this is a special week right this is Derby week you're not let's like imagine this is Superbowl week you know how hard is it to think about God during Superbowl week I'm not sure I've experienced that like I enjoyed the Superbowl but if unless the Cowboys are playing in it I'm not really thinking about it in the days ahead well interesting but you're really into the Kentucky Derby bro it's a total obsession it's a total obsession it's disgusting it's totally disgusting how did you how did you get into this it was totally by accident I never intended this bro I never intended this but it's through a strange circumstance of events like in 2017 I started following the Kentucky Derby because on the on you know I never understood horse racing right until like 2017 and because hey can you carry this show for a minute I just got a delivery from Amazon can you okay sure all right so you know all the high-minded stuff is going out the window now this is just derby talk and here's what you got to do come Saturday you got to put Tabia on top and then you single Messier in second place and then you take everybody else right so trifecta 50 cent trifecta whole thing will cost you about 12 bucks if you hit this thing you should be you should be good for like man bro so um you heard it here first but um sorry I'm walking around my on in the kitchen on the phone and suddenly I'm carrying a show so if you're looking for content hopefully I'm prepared um and I'm not looking to check because I'm on my cell phone and I got a pizza I got a pizza in the oven and the pizza is gluten free so I'm about to have my first gluten free pizza which um which should be an interesting revelation so either either just tastes like a regular pizza I guess there's three options either it tastes like a regular pizza the sun's gluten or B it tastes like a slightly subpar pizza without gluten or option three which I'm dreading which is that it's going to be um inedible so um that was a little time killer so I'll let you know how's that going the pizzas should be done in about five minutes so um oh boy I'm not reading the chat so I'm just trying to imagine what chats are coming in and imagine some of them could be rather disparaging but um wow oh you're back bro sorry man that was tough yeah people make this job so easy yeah I'm not seeing the chat so I'm not getting essential feedback I know because uh you know if you're not responding and the chat's not responding I'm just kind of speaking not easy not easy so you're experiencing a reduction in anxiety levels and I have to chill my perishables while I talk to you um yeah do I have a reduction in anxiety levels I have to say um I've been sleeping much better since this little um I'm on day two do okay I did my third float today but this is this this one today was like two in a row so this is the second one where it's been consecutive like two consecutive floats that's what they're called and um like it's very strange because you become acutely aware of all of the attention that you're holding in your body when you're in this right that's all you can think about so then all you do is you try and relax this bit these bits of tension and it's very solipsistic I mean at the end of the day you're just thinking about the tension in your body but at the same time it's a message it's a signal you know it's something it's a piece of information that you need to be aware of that you um you know if the world weren't so hectic uh hold on I'm checking the pizza and the Brussels sprouts you got Brussels sprouts the Brussels sprouts are done look at the pizza here pizza needs like five minutes um if you're not aware so yeah you come to you come to like understand the tension in your body and um you can think about it and then you can think about ways of sort of like the Alexander technique but you sort of you get into your tension you're like how can I relax this tension bro and uh you you're it's it's nice because sometimes you do you like you you unwind some of this tension and like suddenly you just feel freer once you you get these cracks in your body and it's this shifting of your skeleton look you back bro I'm with you bro I would never leave you to thank you I was just trying to carry bro I was just kind of you know improvising um so um yeah does this appeal to you or what uh sure I'm not not sure I'm ready to drop $500 a month but well well here's the difference like if you go to like if you go to a spa you go to one of these places it's $100 for one but it's $500 for 30 oh wow wow no you're you're saving massive amounts of money now yeah so if you're gonna try this out you go one time or do you go 30 times to really see if it works you gotta you gotta commit to the process bro and is this a good way to meet people no it's the absolute absolute good way to meet people because all you do is you go up and then you you put you put on like these spa provided sandals you know and then they say oh hi Elliot you're in room four and then they walk you to room four and then thus ceases any further social interaction it's it's as clinical as it gets my dude there's no community whatsoever when I'm looking at the videos on youtube they're filled with scantily clad women yes there there's a receptionist bro that's what they do and does she ever jump in the sensory deprivation tank with you no she doesn't bro she just maybe if she were like you bro she was like this towering adonis like you are she'd say oh do you mind if I jump in the tank with you you know I saw a movie where a guy went to a sensory deprivation tank and then the receptionist gets in there with him and he wasn't so sensorily deprived that's right it's it's cross purposes so no they're like how can I get rid of this guy as fast as possible I know I'll just show him to his tank and shut the door he's out of my life so the whole thing like the whole thing of like spy interactions is totally contrived I mean yeah I was thinking of joining a gym because I thought you know I need more human contact but doesn't sound like there's actually a lot of human contacts at the gym but for five dollars I just drank my essential greens celery, cucumber, spinach, romaine, kale lime and parsley juice that sounds nice too bad it's too bad it's been it's organic too bad it's been in the jar for a week and then delivered to you by Amazon and not like freshly prepared it's fresh it's beautiful like Mexican children have been picking this these vegetables and squeezing them with their feet yeah that reminds me like the first sort of like a Moses movie ever saw like a black and white TV I don't know 12 years old or something was that scene like I don't know if you saw it I didn't know the name of it but it was like all the slave children of Israel sort of walking up and down in these bats of grape juice trying to crush the grapes do you remember that I'm not sure I don't think I saw that yeah you're probably blissfully unaware of this because you're still in Australia but that's that was my introduction to Jewish history hey the guacamole is like 30% off on Amazon Fresh oh really Luke you're destroying local economies by using this convenient service that is Amazon that's good customer service bro good customer service so um are you uh so you're not at all inclined to jump in a tank right now right and I haven't sold you yet no not really but have you been listening to any blood sports can you give me any updates on any e-drama um I think you're probably more up to than I am I have been listening but passively and like a lot of recaps like replays of the medic or some of some of the sort of more choice interactions between medica and Ralph and um just all the swearing Luke it's as I get older it's like I can barely it's I can tolerate vulgarity less and less do you find this to be true uh it's situational yeah in some situations I don't mind it like I had this girlfriend who would implore me to fuck her like a whore and in that situation I didn't didn't take objection to the profanity that's the highly situational though I mean how often that situation happened though I mean we're talking you know 20 30 times bro but how about would you like to hear Ralph um you can Ralph I didn't really want to hear Ethan Ralph swear yeah but you listen to these guys and F this and you know mother F that and over and over and over and I'm like is this the best the white race has to offer you know what I mean bro you would probably benefit listening to some Mark Shapiro he's doing something on the rabbinic response to reform Judaism he's on like episode 14 maybe you can send a copy to Ralph hahaha oh my good my gluten free pizzas out of the oven bro you excited for me I've got my Yasso mint chocolate chip yogurt bars bro so you don't eat hot food do you you just eat like cold I mean if I can put it in a microwave I'm not gonna put it in an oven we're never gonna see eye to eye about our dietary habits bro you really you're really missing out oh so how do you feel about the the supreme court undoing Roe v Wade bro I'm sure you've got a galaxy brain take on that it's so even hard for me to think about if the whole I don't even know how like people can like it's so disgusting it's just so so inhumane you know bro it's so hard to like contemplate without just feeling thoroughly disgusting you know I was never you know even when I was a leftist way back when in like when I was 20 like the whole abortion thing I just kind of like pretended it wasn't happening when they were talking about it it was so it was so hard for me to contemplate there's probably a big reason why I left the whole leftist thing because of I don't know did that stop you from forcing your girlfriend to get an abortion back when you're 27 no like like it was like it was such a buzz kill you know just thinking about like and it was such a crusade back then it still is now and you're making me uncomfortable bro just talking about it I don't know I mean people have a visceral response to this and like why can't the visceral response be truth you know I don't know I was hoping not to talk about this I mean it's just me being like being a pussy it's just like my mind is spinning right now I'm totally in control would you like to see abortion illegal so that women have to get them with flow tangas and stuff is that the choice is that like is that it's like vitamin c like abortions like vitamin c you need it like modifying one's behavior is not in the cards whatsoever oh but it's like abortions like part of 19 right you go you went to grocery you went to get some groceries and oh my god I'm pregnant you know it's not exactly the same thing that you've never knocked anyone up not them aware of because I'm eating this gluten free pizza as we speak if you want me to stop just tell me cause this is the end of today's conversation hit me with your best shots well alright um let's pause this conversation we'll have it when I have it when I'm more coherent about it I have to organize my thoughts about abortion I wasn't like ready to talk about it while I'm eating okay bro good to talk to you man alright peace sorry later bye bye let's get some moxipiro here take care Elliott bye bye I'm finding the button it's a Torah prohibition when it's only rabbinic so I uh I have no doubt here that the that the martz vice is uh mistaken this matter uh because look if the chasim sofer thought that that was acceptable if the chasim sofer thought it was acceptable to tell people and we're going to see that there are people who do think it's acceptable but if the chasim sofer thought it was acceptable to say that it's a Torah prohibition when it's only rabbinic prohibition then he would have said so why does he need to cite the Ramban he's telling you that the only reason I'm saying that it's a Torah that it's a a say and a lot to say is because you know the Ramban says so but wait a second if the whole idea if you're allowed to misrepresent the Torah in order to get people to follow it then I don't need the Ramban I can just tell them I can just say you violate your prohibitions um that to me is obvious the interpretation of the chasim sofer is I'm saying it's not I mean that I read it and I assume that this is the first time I read it but subsequently when I was investigating it that that's the standard understanding of the chasim sofer the standard understanding is what I just said and the assumption is that the Marit's advice is incorrect but even if the Marit's advice is incorrect in attributing this to the chasim sofer there were others who held this position that the Marit's advice attributes to the chasim sofer namely that you can take a rabbinic prohibition and you can tell the masses the hamonam prohibition because at the end of the day why did the hamonam need to know the truth if the job of a rabbi is to keep the people observant if he knows that the people are not going to listen if they know it's rabbinic and they tell and they ask him is it rabbinic or not he can tell them no it's a Torah prohibition or if he thinks just by announcing it it's going to help matters this leads to a fundamental dispute that I wrote about in changing the immutable you can find it on Amazon those who are interested my other two books from Whitman Limits of Orthodoxyology for months for some reason we couldn't get them on Amazon just these third party sellers but Baruch Hashem last week they're now available on Amazon and anyone who wants to buy feel free so I speak in changing the immutable this of you that you can tell people with the Torah prohibition what's only rabbinic in opposition to the Marit's chias and they don't think it's a problem and this has great contemporary relevance I mentioned last week because the Frim so press one if you agree with the Marit's chias two if you agree with the rabbi so fair brothers they wrote a whole long essay tradition on women's prayer groups and they dealt with like statements like from the Yoroshishiva that it's ussir they have a whole appendix there saying ussir means forbidden when they say it's ussir it's not really ussir like you can point to a source it's ussir it's ussir because they feel it's going to lead to bad things bad results much like maybe it's not technically ussir to pray in the vernacular but we know where it's going to lead to so the Frimers have a whole appendix there can you misrepresent the Torah for positive goals and they show that this is a huge dispute with big authorities on both sides of the issue for public policy can you say that something's forbidden and even forbidden from the Torah if it's not really they conclude that the consensus of codifiers maintained that public policy considerations doesn't entirely serve Zanaka but I don't think that's true I think from the very sources they cite there's no consensus I think it's a dispute and it remains a dispute I mean just to give you some examples none other than forget the Roshpo I mean he's great enough but in our own day Ravlad Yosef Rakhim Kanyevsky both state that it's permissible to misrepresent the reason or the source of a prohibition and the Frimers cite sources that do hold you can upgrade in quotes a biblical, a rabbinic prohibition to biblical one which is how Marat Chai is understood the chastasso first so I uh this is a this is a dispute and there's plenty of authorities that say to oppose it and Rakhim Davideh Lavey actually he was the chief highway he says the whole dispute is irrelevant today because today if you lie to your community it'll get out people this is before the internet he said this he died before there was an internet but he said that if you tell your congregants something they're going to find out the truth and then they're going to lose respect for you so in our day and age you have to be honest with them but there is a trend in our tradition it doesn't mean I like it but it's there that permits misrepresentation and even outright falsification of how if it serves a good purpose that is there's this idea that for the masses they don't need to know and the elites they know the truth you don't find this in what you sort of surpass some passages you might be able to find sources from the you definitely find the idea of a lot of a modern king that is you don't need to let the masses in on all the truths Shachtar quotes in Nefesh that the Rav told his students that even a craft cheese was kosher that's what he held because it was a vegetable rennet and he held like the he would toast us that we're not concerned that basically gvinas akum is like it's not it's not a matter where you need the Jew to be involved today we don't hold like that to none of the kosher organizations but he said don't tell the because they don't they won't know how to distinguish properly but that's not the same thing as telling but we have examples I gave a great example in my book about the rabbi was confronted with a question where guy was sitting Shiva of Shiva Shavas and he wanted to know do you sit Shiva on Shavas and the reason he wanted to know is because he had a store that he would he wasn't Shama Shavas so he wanted to go back to the store because his wife was running in and she was doing a terrible job so by Rousseff says well if I tell him the truth that there is no Shiva then he's going to be Mikhail Shavas on the other hand can I lie to him and tell him there is Shiva today this will not even be a question because anyone could open up Maurice Lam's book or go on the internet and you know the answer to that but he decides in the end I'm not going to tell the truth to this person we do a simple juice and he tells them that you don't Shavas so there is you you have to stay in the house but you don't you can put on regular clothes all that sort of thing but you're not about to leave the house so he lies to him and he tells them that there's some some to some of it was and that you have to stay in the house available space morning because otherwise the person's going to go to a store after all and even if it was ends but he says and he defends himself and he goes through the whole thing and what's the role of the rabbi he speaks by a Ravus that we're responsible for everyone you might say why do I care what this guy does but no all Jews are responsible for one another there's cosmic significance so we try our artists we don't even want Jews who are Mikhail Shavas we try to avoid it if we can putting them in a situation where there could be Mikhail Shavas so in Orthodox outreach groups they often invite non-Orthodox Jews over to Shabbat dinner or a holiday meal but the more traditional ones don't want the non-Orthodox Jews driving that would be a violation of the laws of Sabbath and then some more liberal or modern Orthodox groups you know don't inquire but I remember when I asked it's a traditional Jewish group in the Fairfax Lebray area I needed a place for a Passover Seder they asked me where I live because they weren't going to provide me a place if I would have to drive to the Seder praise God I live nearby at least I told them that I did so this is a terrific book changing the immutable how Orthodox Judaism re-writes its history so according to Rabbi Hayes the Talmudic sages were always very careful to clarify which matters were from the Torah which were rabbinic even though there was no practical legal distinction because from the traditional Jewish perspective whether it's coming from the written Torah or the oral Torah these are all manifestations of the divine will Rabbi Hayes objected that Rabbi Sofa's approach violates the Biblical command against telling a falsehood but Rabbi Sofa's false statement had an important purpose that would make it permissible in the eyes of many authorities so it's unlikely that Hayes is correct in assuming that Sofa believed that one can describe something as Biblically prohibited when this is not the case so had Rabbi Sofa thought that telling a falsehood about a commandment was acceptable when it came to influencing the masses to follow religious law he would not have had to justify his position by citing Nachmanides yet even if Sofa did not hold the position attributed to him there were others who did so we can speak about a fundamental dispute between rabbinic figures are we obligated to tell the truth when we make decisions regarding Jewish law or is the most important thing to keep people in line so this applies in secular politics as well or in public health officials the public health officials and politicians during Covid often had to make pronouncements for all varieties of the IQ experience and so they had to boil things down and oversimplify and sometimes are on the side of caution if you were dealing say with a group with an average IQ of 120 you could be more accurate but you're not always dealing with a group with an average IQ of 120 you're more likely to be dealing with a group with an average IQ of about 98 so you have to then boil things down exaggerate and to simplify to get your point across so if a rabbi feels that the only way to secure religious stability in his community is to tell the masses falsehood then surely that would be acceptable and if the only way is to maintain stability in the secular community or to prepare a nation in the state of war in the state of emergency that you need to tell them some falsehoods to keep them in line and to keep them stable maybe there are greater values than telling the truth so in the controversy about the Jewish validity of women's prayer groups the many who thought the prohibitions issued against these groups which were formulated in terms of Jewish law were actually public policy prohibitions not strictly violating Jewish law so there are many sources that conclude that the consensus of codifiers maintains the public policy considerations no matter how justified do not entitle the rabbinic authorities to misrepresent Jewish law but there are many rabbis who disagree believing it is permissible to misrepresent the reason for or a source of a prohibition so one may upgrade a rabbinic prohibition to a biblical one there are many sources that say one is permitted to deviate from the truth to maintain peace to misrepresent Jewish law to maintain peace between various members of the Jewish people and God so there is a strong trend in the Jewish tradition that would permit misrepresentation and outright falsehoods regarding Jewish law if a good purpose is served by doing so a little bit more here from Marc Shapiro it's a long dispute you can read about it in my book incidentally the Miiri says that the Talmud sometimes attributes biblical authorities rabbinic laws says that the Talmud says that honoring a step-parent is a Torah law even though we know it's only a rabbinic command and the Miiri explains that human psychology being what it is you can assume that step-parenting in ancient times was as difficult and often thankless as it is today so the Miiri says that the Talmud this statement that it's a Torah law they were raising the prohibition that is not to mistreat step-parents to encourage people to give proper respect I couldn't find anyone else who says this and therefore I'm assuming this that all the other Rishonin think that this opinion is an outlying opinion which we don't accept but the Miiri doesn't see it as an outlying opinion the Miiri sees it as in line with all the other opinions but this is an example of where something is being said out there that is no different than when the Gomorrah sometimes says that if you violate this it's like you worship idolatry so here too they exaggerate to get people to properly behave incidentally also since I mentioned the Shaktar Shaktar in Nefesh-e-Rav says that he agrees with that the Rav Herschel Shaktar is perhaps the most influential and powerful decider of Jewish law in modern Orthodox life in America today so that to misrepresent Talacha to say that a rabbinic prohibition is biblical he thinks that this is a violation of the Torah law that you can't say a false matter and this became a problem in Germany, I discussed this in between the Ishiva world you had the whole problem of stunning before Shcheta and the rabbis Shcheta is the killing of animals for kosher food and Mahaloz-Rozinski said that we can't give reasons we have to just say it's absolutely forbidden but Michiak of Weinberg thought that he could find a way to permit it with the new types of stunning it wouldn't create internal problems but Rav Herschel-Rozinski prevailed on him to not publish this so traditional societies tend to be very strongly conformist the closer your ties to other people the more vulnerable you are to being pressured to back down and to not reveal something and we have a number of examples like that so maybe yes thank you Haiman that's what we said so then why if Haiman says correctly that's a Torah prohibition to say that Darabana is Daraisa Darabana means from the rabbis Daraisa means from the written Torah the Pentateuch because because here you're doing it not to misrepresent the Torah here you're doing it to keep people in the fold I guess that's the argument they could they don't see this as a Zia fatora as the masses the masses are not entitled to all the information because they're the masses you can't lie to Atam Hacham but when you're trying to keep the masses on the straight and narrow you can sounds a little bit like the Catholic church that they were trying to keep people ignorant well they were in fact they refused to allow translations of leaving the kids of Shacharach what Rabbi Yellen cites there from Rabbi Desler I cite that in my book as well that truth what's truth is that keeps you in line with that's that's a higher truth so there you go yes let me go quickly there are alternate truths that's exactly there's truth and there's truth the truth the capital T is multi I don't know which is with but the ultimate truth is to be in line with God and to follow Halacha the other truth is a Halacha Jewish law the other truth no we want them to do the right thing please take a look at my book you'll see all the different sources there's Gamoris that speak about this I think this is a dispute Gamoris means from the Talmud we're uncomfortable with it today because we believe in that all the facts should be out there and we don't believe in covering things up but there's a whole tradition of this but people can't get away with it as much anymore it's so true not to tell women about some prohibitions we're pretty sure they won't keep it such as women the Gamoris says this it's a mitzvah it's a mitzvah not to say what they won't it's a rabbi who knows his community he's not going to follow something he's not supposed to get up and tell them that we discussed this in the first when I dealt with it in my latest book when you're learning in Shul HaNarach you're not supposed to skip but you're not supposed to tell people something if you're not in the most observant community and everyone came and they brought their baby carriages the psaak is given by big rabbis is you're not supposed to get up and you're not supposed to announce the errors down because the people are still going to so according to traditional Jewish law you can't carry on the Sabbath but an Eru is a thin is a thin band that can go around a community creating an enclosed place where you buy you can carry and so an Eru can extend or 10, 20, 30 miles in many directions over 100 square miles such as in Los Angeles push the carriages so you can push a baby carriage you're not supposed to make a public announcement tell a few people who you know are pious and listen to every rabbi knows this and this is not a modern thing this goes back to the Gomorrah better that they're shogging than amazing do not tell people about things if you know they're not going to listen so that's Talmudic Harvey says it appears that rabbis are treating us like children no, not us we're here learning on Monday night, we're part of the elites we get all the information but there's a distinction between the Hamon'am the rabbis distinguish between the Hamon'am look, everyone agrees the rabbis distinguish between the Hamon'am and the elites some achronim hold that you can even distort things for the Hamon'am but everyone knows the Gomorrah already says that the Hamon'am doesn't get all the information there's a halach of a modern king we have a certain halach that we can't tell the Hamon'am because they can't handle it like the movie says, they can't handle the truth every rabbi knows this also you have to give a sermon, there's certain things you say certain things you don't say, if you have a small shear if I best tell me then you'll think about more complicated matters because that's self-selected people come but when you're giving a sermon everyone's sitting there you don't raise all sorts of problematic issues some people will be troubling for them they won't grasp it that's the Rambam explicitly distinguishes between those who are able to be let into certain truths and everyone else who's not based on the Gomorrah we're not allowed to teach my summer cover to a group, why not just individuals because not everyone is able not everyone is deserving of the truths I know the sounds are elitist but that's our tradition that there's certain things that not everyone is the more traditional you go in Orthodox Judaism the more elitist it becomes so the more modern, the more liberal then the more egalitarian it becomes so let's check out a link here suggested by Art Bell let's see what's going on with the... Ralph now his killstream yesterday was at like 11 30 midnight he was starting it up like I'm like why? your show was at 9 o'clock 9 30 or 10 or whatever and now it's about the control for him but I'll go on a tangent here Nick is a control freak he has to control every aspect of every single person in the movement's life you can find when you're dealing with children that have no life experience no accomplishments, no ego but when you're dealing with actual grown ass adult men and you try and micro manage them to that point, to that level they're gonna fucking snap they're not gonna fucking listen to you especially when you literally are a fucking Mexican child that up until like a year ago was living in his mother's basement then started living with Jake can't ride people like that well you can't stream in my time slot you can't talk to Jake Lloyd you can't talk to CWC yeah I was always surprised when people would say oh you know I'm not gonna stream in your time slot I say stream away the internet's big enough for both of us just like I'm always taking it back when sponsors say oh I'd like to get your permission to do XYZ it's like no you don't need my permission any sponsors permission to do anything you want can't do this, you can't do that like fuck you, you're not their daddy not their father, you're not their god you're a fucking man and this is like the pretension and the ego of this fucking guy I think that he can micromanage and control every single aspect of Jaden's life you cannot you are a fucking glorified hall monitor on the internet, flags people because people make fun of you and you cry you are a nothing, you are a fucking nobody you are a small fishery look if Nick Puentes or you know some powerful sponsors running people's lives it's only because those people allow them people are weak, we all naturally tend to exert ourselves and to seize as much influence and power as we can that's the natural human progression so if we have too much power over people's lives yeah, part of the problem may be that we're overreaching but a huge part of the problem is that other people are too weak and allowing themselves to be pushed around so when you don't allow yourself to be pushed around when you speak up for yourself, when you say no that's not okay you're not just doing yourself a favor you're doing the other person a favor I had a girlfriend who allowed me to yell at her and so my yelling just escalated because she didn't stop it while other girlfriends would very quickly shut me down and say don't be a jerk and then as soon as girlfriend has pointed out that I was being a jerk I would usually recognize that she was right and I would become a mensch become a good guy again so if Nick Puentes or Ethan Ralph or any online character is exerting too much influence and power over his followers then that's largely on them now why are you so weak that you're allowing this right, you should not be asking a sponsor for permission to do things that you want to do and you should not be asking some no, east lab for permission really Nick, like let's get real for a big fish in a small pond this whole ecosystem is small as fuck even politics within a subset of streaming is small and you're a small niche of that dude so for yourself, you're not a god so the problem with live streaming is that you think that you're smarter than you are you think that you have more influence than you do you think that you're more important than you really are it's incredibly intoxicating to get this positive feedback and so it's very, very easy to lose any sense of proportion and so we all tend to do that which makes us feel important so I used to sit back and think oh, dear old dad he was such a pathetic broken down person that he devoted all his attention to preaching the gospel of Jesus because that's the thing he did that gave him the biggest feeling of importance and my father would say that he preferred speaking at funerals because that's when people would listen to him most closely and in social engagements, my father usually wouldn't talk much unless he thought that people were listening and he was doing some good so he was not really someone who had a lot of friends, he had more followers but then I thought about it and read about it and it's like we're all like that, we all tend to do that which makes us feel most important, we all tend to go where we get the most positive attention, right we're all groping and grasping towards the sun like a plant grows towards the sun looking for that positive attention looking for a feeling of importance and so people will spend hours a day live streaming because that's the number one thing that gives them a feeling of importance that's true for me, other people will work out, other people will take great care of their appearance because that gives them a great feeling of importance other people go to synagogue and pray three times a day because that is their primary source of importance along with say being a husband or a father or just say an important worker so if you get your primary sense of importance from your job then you may well work more than 8 hours a day if you get your primary sense of importance from your hobby then you'll engage in your hobby all the spare time that you can you'll gravitate towards doing that which gives us the most feeling of importance that's it, alright here we go I show and everybody notices that everybody sees that and it's a big public slight but it's like whatever, I'm like okay no biggie, I'm not gonna make a big deal out of it I really don't care it's like a jag off move so it's like, and then that started recently everybody like knows the dynamic there and then that started sort of recently then you know Jake Lloyd makes this comeback and all the Jaden people are gassing him up and like in case people don't know Jake Lloyd did the same thing that Patrick Casey did except without the flame out Patrick Casey released information that probably only him maybe one or two other people were privy to Nick was under federal investigation he was on a no fly list and that the Feds had frozen his assets Jake Lloyd did not reveal any of that Jake Lloyd did not reveal any privileged information Jake Lloyd made a clean break from America first after January 6th he didn't want anything to do with it he waited until the situation cooled off and the Feds weren't just fucking throwing everybody in jail or freezing their shit or putting on no fly list he was smart now he's come back and he's trying to build a lot of what Fuentes has destroyed somehow he's the bad guy for being smart and taking care of himself he should have sacrificed himself in his life for Nick Fuentes Nick will admit that he didn't really ever like Jake or any of these guys to begin with it's the same thing with me and Ralph right almost the same thing Ralph was streaming over my time slot you know he's undermining me not paying me not promoting which was the whole agreement I wasn't asked I wasn't asking to be paid it was you'll promote me and I'll be on the show and then when I leave I'm the snake when I left without saying anything I broke it as clean as possible you know this also adds now like the politics behind it you know if everybody remembers the original beef with Atric which you called out a year ago was that he wasn't going to aft pat too you know people forget that it's like yeah then he went on a tirade against me and you know so this is revisionist history bullshit Atric just didn't want to go to aft pat too he said the heat is too much after January 6th which it was it was fucking insane after January 6th Atric didn't want to go he wanted it to be discreet that he didn't go Ferguson blew it up into a big fucking fight and pushed it to the area and Patrick finally said okay wanna fucking play nuclear well here's the truth this is why I don't want to go Nick's under federal investigation he's on the no fly list his assets have been frozen and Nick went on the till stream lied said it was half truths it turned out it was the full truth that Patrick told everybody Nick didn't want you see the thing was you could have your choice to go to aft pat or not but it should have been an informed decision you should have had access to the information Patrick had which is that Nick was on a no fly list he was investigated by the feds his bank account frozen without that knowledge you couldn't have informed consent on going to aft pat too the event probably should never have been held in the first place it's just crazy to me that this is like revisionist bullshit like this and he gets away with it because his cult lacks critical thinking skills who's me or something and lied but what preceded that was that he was abandoning the movement and it's like you know so you bandwagon on a gripper war you make a ton of money off of my residual audience on D live you get you speak at my event see and this is the thing this is the thing is now like well you owe me everything you owe me loyalty even if I fuck up because I got you don't knows okay if someone someone can help you and you're doing very well and you're making money and then that person turns into a psycho or crazy or says shit that you disagree with now you're owed forever to nod and go yes you're right because they helped you a few times retarded it's insane and I graciously allowed him back into the fold after he was very gracious all king nick you're so gracious oh I was so gracious and magnanimous never you have to describe yourself as gracious are you really if you had grace would you fucking brag about it like that yeah I'm so I'm so nice and then uh then he doesn't go to half pack too and it's like I took that as a big sign of disloyalty and and same thing with Jake and Jake said like oh well you know he made up some bullshit excuse and I said okay whatever and I keep asking I'm like hey like you know if you if you want to quit this thing like just tell me but like let me know and he kept telling me no no I'm still a part of this but you know I'm just like I'm just doing my own thing or whatever well then I find out he's he's best buddies with Matt Kipta and Matt Kipta was the guy who I look up I looked up to one of my best friends talked to him every day I've gone over the story on stream before this is like a DC guy and I've known this guy for a year or two and uh I considered him a close friend I considered him a confidant I considered him a trusted person I've and I helped him a lot I introduced him to a lot of people I introduced him to a lot of my contacts I try to get his projects off the ground and after January 6 he just stops talking to me and he calls everybody that we know all our mutual friends and says Nick told me to tell you never to talk to him again because he's under FBI investigation which I didn't and like so people some people are saying like oh should his contacts not have known that he was under FBI investigation all of the messages that they might send to Nick might be viewed by the feds if you weren't gonna tell them Nick why was it wrong for him to tell them because it blew up your spot because it made things harder for you well what if one of those fuckers got arrested because of the shit they sent to you you think about that the guy might have been wrong to lie and said Nick said this who even knows if that's the fucking truth but I don't think he was wrong to let Nick's contacts know that he's under investigation that's something that if you're you should know yeah definitely like yeah to make sure that everything you're talking about is on the up and up and private messages because you're being you know surveilled by the FBI smart to know that this is not a big deal like what's the big deal that's a big deal you know when we're out there trying to stop this deal like at the end of the day like get real let's get real you were never gonna stop this deal and you knew that it was a grift from the fucking beginning and the grift went out of your fucking control there was some glowy shit going on baked went into the fucking building shit got completely fucked that's what happened and the reality is you were grandstanding with all the stop the steel shit and then the reality hit you and then you didn't know what to fucking do because you're a child panicked and shit went fucking sideways that's what there you go without me it's about America first and like when I was out there during stop the steel that was not about me it's about America first yeah yeah it's not it's not about decades it's about America first guys so I just uh googled myself on Kiwi Farms so here's some posts Luke Ford was a prominent journalist of the porn industry in the late 1990s he would sometimes sleep with porn stars one of the porn actresses he slept with Kendra Jade admitted to him that she was sexually abused as a child would disassociate she'd see herself outside of her own body while having sex she would view herself as though she were watching from above and she said you know virtually every porn star is like this that's what she told me and another post I'm not a fan of Luke Ford he's always been a guy who enjoys being on the fringes he wears out his welcome every few years so he bounces from fringe to fringe I don't think he glows at all the only reason why Ford hasn't been totally deplatformed yet is because he's Jewish so speaking of Ford he glows to me who goes from being the son of the leader of the Seventh-day Adventist to the internet's most famous porn blogger to Orthodox Jewish Convert to nationalist sympathizer bringing a lot of the online right disparate branches together through his show and publicizing without being suspected it's also very telling to me that he abandoned doing distant streams right once Trump was decisively out of the picture yeah when situations change I change with them and then someone else says that I introduced him to Nick Fuentes Luke Ford used to heavily show the irony bros and Nick Fuentes going as far as having a regular from the irony bros Joe the boomer is one of his co-hosts on his own stream letting anyone else affiliated with them appear on stream at will bringing up the irony bros now funny you thought they were speaking of Fuentes as though he were political genius prodigy well I spoke of Fuentes as someone who is a brilliant communicator he is really good at what he does I never thought he was a deep thinker on politics also I have found much of the irony bro content that I consume just absolutely hilarious but this person says it was due to Ford's constant gushing and overselling of Nick Fuentes as the next big thing leader in the distant alt-right I don't remember ever doing that I just said that Nick is entertaining and seems generally a happy guy and seems compared to other people in the alt-right much more normie friendly and much less anti-social but it was due to Ford's constant gushing and overselling of Fuentes as the next big thing in the distant right online politics that I originally ever started thinking about Fuentes whether he was just a plant French or Lucas Dummy for the unknown possibly glowing entities behind the scene and he went on the 10 hour cap boy date speaking of Ford he glottis okay it's got a little bit more here from PVP is it about fucking saving Trump as we were all out there and we all knew what we were doing we all knew the stakes there and it's in retrospect did anyone really know the stakes of going into the capital building no nobody thought that that was going to happen that day yeah a lot of the people thought that they were invited in a lot of them thought that the president had ordered them to do it or that Nick had ordered them to do it or that Alex or whoever the fuck their leader was wanted them to do it somehow all of the leader's hands remained clean as they were the Judas goats leading their followers to captivity including Trump I'll never forgive this it was the biggest betrayal ever of the movement everybody involved in it should be fucking ashamed of themselves because there are seriously it is a black eye for Trump so when Trump was elected I was like 99% excited and then during his four year term my support went down to maybe 60% excited definitely preferred him to Joe Biden but what he did claiming the election was rigged and then essentially handing the two Georgia senate races to the Democrats by discouraging people from voting by constantly saying that the vote was fixed and then Trump did instigate January 6 and what Trump did was terrible and he really bespurched his legacy in his last couple of months in office it was a big day guys in solitary confinement it was only crime that they did what they thought their leaders in retrospect do I see the antisocial nature of Nick yeah I think I did over time I don't think I was ever as agilatory of Nick as that post portrait now compared to say Richard Spencer 2015 to 2018 Nick hasn't been that antisocial so it's all about compared to whom there is something about going online and doing right now that tends to lead people down a bad path so I use as a guiding principle that I don't allow my live streaming to hurt my life I don't consciously do things that could hurt my real life online I shape what I do online around my real life rather than shaping my real life along what I do online so it used to be when I was blogging for a living when what I was doing online was my primary source of income then I to a degree shaped my real life around my online life but over the past few years I shaped my online life around my real life but what happens when you do the live streaming and you get an audience and you get applause by telling people what they want to hear right that's how you build a big following you tell people what they want to hear you play the biggest hits right in rhetoric in arguments you give people the arguments in the rhetoric that they want so you're feeding an audience like a whore takes care of a patron what happens you develop an audience and you get an exaggerated sense of your own importance when your importance depends entirely upon providing the audience what it wants to hear so the biggest rabbi is the same thing the biggest rabbi in orthodox Judaism if he suddenly came out and said that he was he was a Zionist he would lose his following so he'd go from being the most powerful orthodox rabbi in the world to not thinking in the top 500 orthodox rabbis in the world simply because he came out in favor of Zionism and then lost all his ready in traditional Jewish base of support just wanted them to do it's unsurprising that something like January 6 happened because you know we're out there saying like the elections rigged and so we in a sense right when you're out there saying the elections rigged you're predisposing people to really bad outcomes you're predisposing people who are naive and gullible to ruining their lives now if someone ruins their life on January 6 or some other day that's primarily on them but you play a role in preparing the ground for that kind of destruction by beating out those lies and that rhetoric and that nonsense about voter fraud decided the 2020 election right there's absolute no evidence for that you push that line then you allowing people to let go of any moral scruples any legal scruples right if you convince people that the election was fixed then people go well game on there are no limits to what I'm going to do in response which leads people to make a lot of bad decisions understood like what the significance of that like what I mean by that is when you have lots of people protesting the stolen election like the government doesn't like that and so in other words like we knew we were taking some kind of a risk there but it was for the greater good and like obviously you see there are a lot of risks that certain people can take with comparatively little risk so for example someone with medium or above intelligence and self discipline can have a reasonably active sex life with various partners and not destroy his life and not destroy the lives of other people but someone in a less advantageous position someone with less discipline less intelligence say if you are resources can absolutely destroy his life by screwing around so there are all sorts of vices that the upper class and the middle class can often participate in that if participated in once by someone in a lower class somewhat with fewer resources less intelligence less discipline will absolutely destroy his life and lives of countless people around it so just because January 6th didn't end Nick Fuentes' life didn't dramatically destroy it instead it was another feather in his cap I assume is his attitude that doesn't mean that it wasn't incredibly damaging to hundreds of other people you perhaps have fewer resources less intelligence than Nick Flation with illegal immigration war with Russia like it was a worthwhile cause if there was even a small chance that we won back then yeah it wasn't a worthwhile cause it was a stupid cause it was a false cause and you ruined no you played a role in hurting the lives of thousands of people a role not not 100% responsible for other people not even sure you're 70% responsible for others they definitely more than 1% responsible it would have been worth it and that's all there was no chance there was zero chance zero chance anybody who had any understanding of how the government worked or elections worked the legal system worked to that the election results would not be overturned the only way would have been like a military coup to overturn the results Trump didn't have the support of the military he Nick didn't have the actual like fucking people to overthrow the government so it was doomed from fucking day one they knew it they led them there and fucked them over and it's disgusting to me I'll know this we're out there and he's out there too on the 6th and the chat says look no more people when they hear the elections are rigged they just don't bother with voting anymore it's only the extreme unstable ones that go stormy building sure but people who don't bother voting that's probably what gave control of the United States Senate to the Democrats that's what turned over to US Senate seats to the Democrats like Trump running on a platform of Republicans shouldn't vote anymore it's just a terribly destructive platform for Republicans so Trump was always going to be a dangerous candidate dangerous to himself and to others and he was dangerous and he was incredibly self-destructive and he did come with a big price he was a terrible at running things you know he was a bad leader in many ways he did many good things in addition he got three Republicans on the US Supreme Court he dramatically cut down on immigration he enacted policies that led to rising real wages for those who didn't graduate from high school and who'd been left left behind over the past 50 years so Trump did a lot of good things a lot of bad things increasingly came to recognize over the four years of Trump's reign how many of the left wing and how many of the centrists and how many of the official Republican traditional Republican criticisms of Trump were indeed accurate and then of course it gets hot you know January 6th happens and then yeah the feds do come down and the persecution starts and all that and it's like next is the gold and the chat says these irony bros seem miserable yeah they seem miserable now four years ago they seem to be having a good time so a lot of things that we can do and have a great time online but we don't know it we're having a laugh and we think we're on top of the world and you know we feel great we feel powerful and we feel excited and we're building connections with people but we're ingraining all sorts of negative habits that will wear us down and be disastrous it's like with working out so you can max lift like extraordinary levels of weight if you cheat if you cheat on your technique but when you do that you're ingraining bad habits that will cause injury and will limit your workout effectiveness and damage your health so if you're doing a workout where you're any ingraining bad habits even though you may be oh wow I lifted this amount of weight this number of times that's fantastic I feel amazing yeah but you more deeply ingrained negative habits more deeply ingrained compression habits more deeply ingrained muscular interference habits that will cause you pain and health problems and all sorts of problems down the line so you can feel on top of the world like irony bros were four years ago and not even realize that you are ingraining habits that will hurt you down the line so I don't like it when people online say oh what happens online doesn't matter yeah what you say right now it matters you're forming habits things you say in chat things I say right now they form neural pathways and you take out into the real world everything that you say and do online so everything you say everything you do affects you every choice you make even if you're all alone in a room whether you choose to watch TV or to read a good book or to look at pornography everything you do even when you're completely aligned will affect you and therefore will affect other people boy he's been yeah he's been waiting a bit Andy how long till you turn on PPP probably a month when the money when the money runs when the money runs out I'll betray him I'm gonna backstab him and it'll be fun it'll be a fun arc you know end of season 5 there when Warski betrays then we'll do the reunion in another year so it's really hard to keep up partnerships in this game because as live stream as you're bouncing off each other and there are just so many ways to misunderstand someone else and generally speaking to keep any kind of friendship or relationship going you have to have at least like four positive interactions for every negative interaction and at any time you can have a misunderstanding or a shop shop contrast of opinion with someone and then you start heading down a negative spiral and these online chat partnerships break up very quickly very easily you know how they shoot this is how it works their nexus and then he says question for you from this point onward I'll be keeping a list of the lore you live out for e-drama I know your MO chat will win not you and he dabs he dabs on you three or four donations for him to say that there you go there's your answer answer next I'm lying about the lore there I'm not picking up anything that any Warski and PPP are doing that's gonna significantly hurt them in real life I mean they seem to be on a good trajectory they seem to be the voices of common sense they both you know seem to be in a good place coming from a good place and they seem to be doing good shows and good work that are not anti-social you're not gonna watch these shows and you know necessarily go down a bad path these shows don't seem to be leading people down a bad path so PPP and Warski should feel good about what they're doing it's not anti-social sometimes I make a mistake because I misremember or whatever I try not to lie about the lore unless it makes it really really funny okay exactly there you are Nexus hope that answers your questions okay that's gonna do it for tonight take care