 So I just wanted to set the scene with how much I hate Norwegian Wood. I didn't have an example other than first law, because my example is always first law. But I give one star to Norwegian Wood because I can't give it zero stars. As you might recall from my chat with Bookborn, both of us loathed and despised Norwegian Wood by Hurricane Murakami. She's unfortunate because Bookborn loves Hurricane Murakami and that's why we were reading him, but she had never read Norwegian Wood before. And she was like, this is a terrible first Murakami book for you. She, you know, we have a lengthy chat about it. If you missed it or are interested in it, I'll leave that link down below. I also filmed a very angry standalone review for this, which people advised me was too angry to post publicly on YouTube. So I just made that a Patreon video. So if you are a patron, then you are very familiar with how I feel about this book. But today I'm here to talk about normal people and Norwegian Wood. So I just wanted to set the scene with how much I hate Norwegian Wood to explain why it was a bit of a strange moment when actually I wasn't reading normal people. I was reading Sally Rooney's newest book, Beautiful World, Where Are You? And I was realizing that it could easily be compared with Norwegian Wood and more specifically normal people could be compared with Norwegian Wood. Like there were things about beautiful world. They were starting to remind me of things in Norwegian Wood, but these two are much more similar. Basically, I'm trying to say I read Beautiful World much, much more recently. It's fresher in my brain, but I have read Normal People and I really, really loved it. And it is a lot more similar in terms of structure and topic and theme and storyline, etc. There's a lot more parallels between these two. So these are the two that I'll be comparing today. Even though it's Beautiful World, they made me think of this. So I mean, I've read two now, Sally Rooney books. I intend to read Conversations with Friends, I haven't read it yet. But of those two, there's a similarity in her approach and her writing style and the way she does characters, etc., that was present in Beautiful World, which is why it's still, I thought it was applicable for both. This one just has a plot line that is more comparable to this. But her approach, I think, what I'm generally going to say, maybe some specifics, but what I'm generally going to, the points I make about Normal People could be applied to Beautiful World and I'm guessing could probably be applied to Conversations with Friends. I haven't read that yet. So both of these books heavily feature a university setting. They both feature a male and female love interest who knew each other prior to going to university, who come to know each other better while in university. Both of them feature a lot of sexual encounters, like on page. Both feature arguably toxic relationships between romantic partners. Both feature suicidal ideation, which is a trigger warning for either of these if you are thinking of picking one of them up. These are both sort of like lit-fix stories that are sort of just about the experiences of the main character or main characters and just kind of like their life is like the big deal of the book. Like there isn't a bigger deal. It's not about a larger thing. They are both just sort of about the people they're about. They were both adapted. There was a movie made of Norwegian Wood and then there was a Hulu mini-series made for Normal People. These are both huge bestsellers that are really popular with the sort of generation that they were written for and about and just like at the time that they each came out. I think they've both been sort of credited with being to a greater or lesser degree emblematic of their respective generations. They are both set during politically and culturally tumultuous times. This is obviously a different and older time and this is more contemporary. They both center female characters or they each center a female character that is emotionally scarred or damaged. Both books include sexual violence and both books frequently mention what their characters have read, like to read, would like to read, are currently reading. So they both do that. Normal people actually I think doesn't more but they both do that. So there's like a lot of things that are similar about these books but I give one star to Norwegian Wood because I can't give it zero stars on Goodreads and I give five stars to normal people. So for two such ostensibly similar books what did this one do wrong and what did this one do right in my opinion? Now these are both really really beloved books and beloved authors so clearly I'm not in the majority and thinking this is bad. So again these are just my opinions but clearly one worked for me and one didn't and I think there are several reasons why. So I just ran through a list of similarities now I'm going to run through a quick list of like dichotomies like direct differences. Norwegian Wood features one male POV. Normal people features two POVs one male one female. Norwegian Wood is written in first person. Normal people is written in third person close third person. Norwegian Wood was not contemporary when it was written. It was writing about a time 20 years ago from when it was written. Normal people by contrast is about the time during which it was written. This is written by a male author. This is written by a female author. Murakami mainly writes speculative fiction outside of Norwegian Wood. Sally Renew mainly writes literary fiction including normal people. Norwegian Wood one of my big complaints about it was that it has it offers very little insight into the main character's thoughts and feelings in emotional state. It sort of tells you about everything other than that even though it's told in first person you very very rarely hear what the main character is thinking or feeling. In normal people there's an extreme amount of attention paid to the internal journeys and states and thought processes of the main characters even though it's told in third person. And then the last thing is is more a matter of opinion. I mentioned that both of these books feature on-page sex and that they that they feature arguably toxic relationships but this is actually the thing that made me start to compare these in my head because I think people would generally agree that both these books portray sex in an uncomfortable way at times but this is where it's contained this is my opinion. Norwegian Wood features sex in a way that to me reads as extremely one-sided and is extremely objectifying towards the women that the main male protagonist is having sexual encounters with. And normal people while the sex scenes are written in a way that is more uncomfortable it's not you know a romanticized romance novel type of thing it's more uncomfortable. It never seems objectifying to me it seems complex and again and for the and sort of messy and complicated but it's not again objectifying and it is both-sided because not just because you see two different perspectives but when within one scene that it has a sexual encounter it doesn't feel so one-sided in the depiction. It doesn't feel so voyeuristic. So those are some differences between these two books but so basically like I said it was when I was reading Beautiful World Where Are You and there was another somewhat uncomfortable sex scene and I started thinking why is this different? Why am I okay with this? Why does this book so work for me? Why does this- why do I think this book is great? As compared to the extremely uncomfortable sexual encounters in Norwegian Wood which not only made me uncomfortable but made me angry and me and Bookborn ranted about it to each other at length and also during the live and then also in the non-public review. And I mean in my opinion when I was talking about Norwegian Wood with Hillary during our live chat I said multiple times that I don't care if the main character does terrible things thinks terrible things is a terrible person because a lot of the things we pointed out in the book were like it's awful that he thinks this is awful that he does this it's awful that this is how he treats people and we don't understand why the narrative is rewarding him for this behavior and if only we had some inkling as to like what he's thinking and feeling about this or what what the author thinks or feels about this because we've got nothing to go off of and he just goes around doing awful things and keeps getting rewarded by the narrative and we just don't we don't understand why and it's so it's offensive and also really boring to read about because we don't have any sense of who he is as a person and so I said again multiple times that like if you told the same story as Norwegian Wood including everything that I found strange or offensive or off-putting or questionable or whatever but we had great insight into the main characters thoughts and feelings and we knew what he was thinking and feeling about this and it was an in-depth character study of a very complicated perhaps reprehensible person but nonetheless an in-depth dive into what he thinks about these things why he does what he does or the reasons or the ways that he justifies to himself what he does or that he doesn't justify things to himself what does he think and feel because that's the thing that makes what happens interesting because this this isn't you know an action-packed thriller this isn't an epic fantasy with a quest this is a story about a person and that person going through life and meeting people and having encounters like that's what the story is about and so this is like people are character driven readers are not character driven readers but if you have a story where the entire point of the story is this character's life and experiences then that is a character driven story and it is baffling to have like a complete absence of the main characters thoughts feelings emotions motivations etc he's just it's just not there um to the point where Hilary actually thought originally when she didn't know that this book had literally no speculative elements she thought that he might actually be dead um like that that's going to be the reveal that he's actually been dead this whole time and like that would explain why he's such a nothing of a character but no it's not speculative he's not dead he's just he's just not there and so I didn't have an example other than first law because my example is always first law of like you know bad characters or you know bad characters being still engaging and compelling and fascinating to read about like I don't have to like a character I just have to like reading about them and I was like I there's nothing to this person all I have to go off of is what they are doing and that's awful um but it's not interesting because I don't know why they are doing it or how they feel about what they're doing or and I also don't understand why anyone else in the book seems to be okay with the things he's doing but like if you wrote him in a way where he seemed charismatic and not because other characters told him that he was I would find it interesting like it would still be like kind of a harrowing read because it's kind of strange the things that go on in it but you would be I would find it compelling and I'd be like I get why people have this book because it's a fascinating character study but it's not normal people it is an equally off-putting book like there are very harrowing parts of it there are some really troubling parts of it there are some really dark parts of it could easily rival norwegian wood for the level of discomfort and darkness but normal people does what I wish norwegian wood did and gives you intense insight into the main character's thoughts feelings and emotions and how what they are thinking and feeling as they go through these events and that is what is entirely missing in norwegian wood and I continue to be baffled by the fact that this book is popular I don't understand what what what people are getting out of this because a character story with no character is no is nothing what is that if you have never read either of these books obviously I recommend normal people and not norwegian wood but I hope that this is helpful in terms of setting your expectations correctly both of these books are really really beloved and I think there's a lot of crossover like I do think that it is not at all unusual or uncommon to have somebody that loves normal people also love norwegian wood and vice versa I mean like based on the list of similarities in a very surface level way like I obviously agree like that's what made me compare them I have an entire list of ways these books are like kind of the same so from from that standpoint like it makes sense why people would like both books but this one is hollow and empty in my opinion whereas this one has the cream filling and I think that makes like all the difference so even though the shells and the outlines and the conceits of both stories have a great little similarity the execution is so wildly different that it does kind of surprise me that well the people like this book in the first place but also that so many people I think do like both of these books and I get why someone would like normal people and I get why somebody would not like normal people because it is really uncomfortable but at the least it at the very least it does give you the emotional journey of the character during those uncomfortable moments you know what they're thinking you know what they're feeling norwegian wood is just uncomfortable that's it so like I guess if you're just like a glutton for punishment then maybe you're sure about these books I don't understand maybe you can help me understand the comments down below I I genuinely do not understand why anyone likes norwegian wood I don't I just I don't I don't get it but anyway I did think it was interesting that they are so similar and that I could have such viscerally different reactions to these books one star versus five stars like when they are on paper so similar so anyway let me know in the comments down below if you've read both of these books if you've read one and not the other if you like one and not the other if you like both if you like neither whatever you want me to I post videos on saturdays other end times of all but I think saturday so like and subscribe join my patreon if you feel so inclined and I'll see you when I see you