 Hello and welcome everyone to the second virtual conference by entrepreneur India forward by businessx.com. Today's discussion will revolve around impact of SMEs and small businesses midst an aftermath of COVID-19. I am Punita Sabhawal Kapoor, Deputy Editor Entrepreneur India, your host for the session. Today Amitri is unpresented times owing to the novel coronavirus. We are going to try and find answers to some of the questions that may have cropped up in the business community. Let me start by laying out the ground rules for your attendees. The discussion will go on for around 30 minutes. This would be followed by a Q&A session for next 20 minutes. If you have any questions during the course of the discussion, you can post them through the Q&A option at the bottom of your screen. As mentioned in your question, whom it is directed to, mentioning the specific panelists, we will take up the questions post the panel discussion. We would also like to request the attendees to keep the question within the scope of the discussion here today. Let me now introduce our session moderator for today, Ms. Ritu Mariah, the Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur India in Asia Pacific. Our panelists today are Mr. Ajay Chakur, Head BSc SME, Mr. Arun Mayra, Management Consultant, former member of the Planning Commission and former Chairman of Boston Consulting Group, Mr. Abhishek Singh, Chief Analytics Officer, Lending Card, Deepak Bagla, CEO in West India, and Mr. Saikath Roy, Director of Care Ratings. I would now request Ms. Mariah to start the session. Over to you, Ms. Mariah. Thank you very much, Puneetha, and thank you to all the panelists. We have a great panel here today, which is covering a broad spectrum of businesses to the government, to an economist like Mr. Mayra, who has joined us here today. So thank you very much for being out of this discussion. Indeed, it's very critical that once the lockdown is over and right now, not that we are in the midst of it, what is going to be the pay-forward for small businesses? It's really something that everybody is thinking about. There was a survey which was recently done by Economic Times and where it was held in a confident survey, which said that only about 3% of small and medium businesses were confident about how they were going to be able to run their business for the lockdown. So we really have a serious problem as far as SMBs are concerned because obviously for them cash is king and now that the business has been under lockdown for more than 25 days, how are they going to get out of the situation and really be able to run their business, even if not as usual, how to, is really something that is very critical right now for them to address. And secondly, since there was already a bit of economic slowdown the country was going through and on top of this natural disaster like this, how is it we are going to control the situation and bring things back as soon as possible? I mean we even have to define what as soon as possible is looking to be right from here when we are talking today. So let me get down to my great panel out here today to really tell us about what are their thoughts and how are they looking at the picture today. So let me start with the government. Mr Deepak Bagla is here from West India. Mr Bagla, thank you for joining us today. I know you're very busy but still you may have time to come and address SMBs out here. What is it that you see? We are of course right now we're in the midst of it, right now from where we have seen things, things are looking as if you know we might still not be able to control it if a lockdown was to be opened by 15th. So how is the government going to be well prepared in order to help the SMBs and currently helping the SMBs in lockdown particularly when it comes to essential goods and items? Litu, thank you and thank you for organizing this and may I say quick hello to all the panellists. Mr Maria is there. It's always a pleasure sir to meet you or even though we're doing any meeting today. I think a lot of focus within the government is and you know they've created these task forces which are looking at all elements of the current scenario and all elements on how quickly we can restart the business, the moment of life after the lockdown. Let me tell you what is happening within investing there. I've got two primary focuses of now. The first is obviously to look at whatever situational issues, emergency issues are coming up in execution of essential supplies as we speak. Be it businesses to keep them open for essential supplies and helping them with their entire supply chain and movement. So a large part of the team is focused on that. The other part of the team now today is focusing on life after COVID. And that is what we are trying to see how fast can we get the economy back. And that is where we've got instructions from the highest officers of the country that that is what the focus ought to be. And within that, one of the highest focus areas are MSMEs. There are backbone. It's a no building up. And at the same point of time, we also believe that that is the entity, and that is the entire segment which we need to bring back as quick and as possible, as fast as we can. So essentially what we are doing now, a large part which beat into the essential supplies definitions, beat into food production or food processing, be medical essential supplies, beat other supplies, and a significant number of MSMEs and their clusters fit into that segment. We are working with them on their business continuity. We have a SIDB coming up very, very proactively. They've come up with some schemes to provide working capital to a large part of these entire segments. Now what we are also looking at is that the post COVID scenario, how fast do we basically get the labor movement moving back. How do we join the dots so that supply chains start coming back in. How do we create that liquidity which is essential for this entire MSME community to take charge. So I leave myself there for the moment. In fact, I'm here more to hear from everyone and take notes today, then be trying to give you answers. Thank you, Mr. Bagla. Let me come to you, Arun Sir. You know, probably as an economist and as a part of the planning commission and BCG, you have seen a lot of cycles which have been up and down. It's never for an economy, it's never a straight line because that is not the way it works. But this one of course is very unprecedented in its scale. I mean, in my lifetime, I've not seen a 21 day lockdown like this ever happening and we still don't know whether it's going to be further extended. So, you know, in your point of view, what do you think small and medium businesses should do in order for having their readiness to be able to bounce back? You know, what is it that as measures you think they should be taking in order to and I mean, you know, you've been always been a proponent of making India. And, you know, do you think particularly for export businesses which may not find themselves coming back or manufacturing businesses not finding themselves coming back for exporting to other countries? Do you think amazing as they are looking to be happening? Thank you very much, Ritu. I'm so pleased for my heart to be in this panel. I grew up, I'm not an economist, let me clarify that. But I understand the subject from the perspective of an MSME, I think much better than an economist might. Why? After the partition, when I was very young, my father was given a compensation, he beaver in Lahore. He had a big industry there. But he was given a compensation of land in India, in Modi Nagar, not too far from here, to start a small enterprise. And it was quite a struggle. And I was going through school, then college and with him and observing what it took to create a small enterprise with no resources and lots of constraints around yourself. Then, my career went on and I was the director in charge of Tata Motors, which is Tata Motors in our telco then, in Pune, where we created an Indian enterprise to make India, design in India, trucks and buses and then later cars and export them and have been exporting all over the world. Our backbone warriors owned just one lathe or later one CNC machine. And these persons, what they learned and what they did enabled our enterprise to grow, to make India and to make India proud of what Indians could do. So I have an understanding in my bones as it were about what country where things don't always work your way. When I joined the planning commission, my portfolio included ministries, and my first love was for the MSME sector. And I told the secretary of the MSME sector when he came to see me, I said, you got the most important job in this country, you're going to build this country. He was shocked. He said, but my budget is so much smaller, he said, as an MSME ministry than the budgets are, you know, so many other ministries. I said, the budget is not the point. So let's work on what is going to be done and should be done collaboratively with the small industries by the government to ensure that this backbone that is at the moment then look too weak to support a big program of industry in India will be the backbone or strong one for us. And I learned a few things then, and I wanted to share those things. Well, this is a tough time. And the question now would be, please don't give us a lecture about, you know, what we should have done all these years, the government as well as industry themselves, small industries. What do we do now, and I'm going to say is that we've got to be prepared like you're pointing out to when Deepak has that this is will pass. We will be surely will deal with this crisis, but we want to come out on the other side, ensuring that we'll never be in this position again, that never again should our small industries have to suffer as badly as they're doing when this crisis stuck. Only 3% have confidence that they're going to come out this crisis. That's awful. So what is it that we need to do to strengthen our MSME sector, and I learned these things and I'll be sharing them that there's something that the MSMEs could do themselves. And let me say what those are, and those things that they did would help the government around it to support the MSMEs much more effectively. We found, I found that the MSMEs don't help each other very much collectively in their clusters and their associations. They are not creating the ability of the many small to collectively become something larger, not as an economic entity, but as a movement as a voice to be able to get their needs addressed in the proper way, what they need they should get. This whole problem that we say for banks also the last mile is the problem to reach small MSMEs too costly. It takes a lot, whereas to sell, give a loan to a large enterprise is so easy, one meeting and accounts are very clear. So if the MSMEs could help to reduce the difficulties of others reaching that last mile, which is through forming larger associations in which they manage a lot of the infrastructure and discussions amongst themselves about what they need from the larger system, they would be in a much stronger position as we go forward. And even now in this tough times, if they were more collectively organizing amongst themselves to take best advantage of the help that is available or finding resources amongst themselves for things which are not easily available from the environment, they come out much stronger on the other side. We rated around the world the quality of clusters in Japan and Taiwan and Germany and even in parts of the United States, Italy. What we found was that the quality of clusters in India of small enterprise cluster India was the weakest, whereas we, because we have so many small enterprises and because we need them to grow need to have the strongest clusters to focus more right now, the clusters that we enterprises themselves and well as government in its policies to support and and train our small enterprises to grow their strength as clusters and in that they will learn to be and become much larger small enterprises and then they are today. I was very pleased to see recently, several small enterprises who were in that crowd in Pimpley-Chinchwood, as I said, one lake, one CNC machine. I mean today, those people are producing in the United States, because they built the technology and the strengths and that is so. So making India for India teaches you first, what you need to learn and do, and then you become quite world-class and dope can be your market thereafter. Thanks. Sure. Absolutely SME is helping SMEs is probably going to be one way forward. But I mean, while you've said that we need both clustering, but do you think they could also help each other in terms of the resources that they have with each other? I mean, for example, somebody may have a back end. Absolutely. In fact, the essence of the cluster is not to be a political organization, the essence of the cluster solidarity to share resources. See, the government provides a tool room for example, into a cluster. There are clusters here, outside here, not too far in Faridabadu for years. The members have pooled their own monies. They do get some supplementary assistance from government. They have created tools owned by the enterprises. They have created training facilities which are owned and run by the enterprises. So collectively, they're able to do world-class support of tools, world-class training and thus build their own capabilities. So rather than the government doing it for them, if they do it together, they're able to share resources like even effluent treatment. You know, it's a problem for SMEs. They cost a lot, but if they collectively have an effluent treatment plant run by the cluster, they can do that too. Sure. Absolutely. Thanks, Mr. Mayra. We'll come back to you once again. Let me go to Mr. Thakur. Now Mr. Thakur, you've done such a great work in terms of helping SMEs to list themselves when they were young and probably look at becoming large businesses for public money. But today, you know, when we're going through this downturn, investor confidence is not looking very great when it comes to small cap and mid cap indices or small cap investments. And they may not have the wherewithal right now to hold on to such investments or the SME shares or equities that you may want for them to do. And valuations themselves may take us down beating at this point in time. So how are you looking or what's your advice to your portfolio companies in the SME exchange at this point of time and how do you think they can get out of faster? Even for ones that were looking to put themselves out there on the stock exchange, what would be your advice to them? Mr. Thakur, you need to unmute please. Good afternoon to all of you. Thank you, Ritu, for inviting me as a panelist. In fact, if you see in the last one and a half years, we have seen a lot of bidding off small and mid cap companies as well as the companies which were listed on the SME platform. And that is on the background of, you know, our GDP growth falling to the lowest in last 10 years, that is around 4.5%. We have seen the NPS going up. So of course, equity being a risky instrument, we have seen investors signed away from SME companies, not only on the SME platform, but also onto the large portraits that are listed onto the main board numbers. And this pandemic that is hurting by 40%, 45% like this. So everywhere there is a panic situation, there is a pessimism in the minds of the investors. And we have seen 1.1 lakh rupees going out of India, especially in the month of March itself. Of course, as of now, the confidence level is very low, the trust factor is lacking everywhere. And the second major problem that we have seen till now is that most of the support is in the form of debt. You talk about that bank funding or you talk about SIDB funding. So most of these funds are coming in the form of debt. I don't know how it is going to work. The interest rate is going to get reduced a lot. But the most important thing that here we need to see is that whether the demand and supply is going to resume after three months with the same level which was happening before this pandemic has started. So it will be a slow process. At least I think it will take one year or so for everything to get as good as it will not be such an early process. And especially, you know, most of the vulnerable sectors, there we will see the investors very much signed away. Especially in the financial sectors, we have seen the bank prices dropping like anything we have seen and we have seen wealth getting reduced like anything. So there the trust level is very low and most of these are debt finances. So I think one very much important situation for us will be that at least some of the debt funds, unless until 20 to 25% of the loans that they have given to this company, unless until they get it converted into equity, I don't think the pressure is going to come down because the loan amount is the same. Only thing what has happened is that three months moratorium has been given. Now after that what is the principal or interest is going to get reduced? Of course not. Is the business will be as usual? Of course not. I think it is going to extend for long as some is a severe hit out of this. But at the same time, you know, most of the commentators are very much pessimistic on the market. I am little bit optimistic. The reason being is that we will see a lot of innovations in almost all sectors where the cost of production is going to come down. The demand and supply will keep on moving up. You know, most of the I have seen the people talking about that we will henceforth we will more concentrate on buying made in India goods. So I think that this is going to help a lot of promoters. But of course the requirement is equity funds, you know, debt funds. If we keep on talking about debt funds, I think it is going to create more problem in my lifetime. I have made 29,000 promoters. And what I have found is that most of the promoters have died because of over leveraging of their balance because of debt funds. So government come out with some policy or, you know, empower should be like institution whereby, you know, they should think of providing, you know, also equity funds to this company. As far as valuation is concerned, most of the companies have got very low valuation. Okay, we require more and more venture funds be funds and then investors to look with the SMEs where they feel that yes, the escalability is quite high and they should hand hold the companies. I think some of the panelists are there who can hand hold it and take it to the next level. That is very much required. Though we say that SMEs are the backbone of the economy, but of course finance is the most important thing. And at this juncture, I think finance is very much required. Already everything has talked about the term loan, etc. There's no mention of working capital extension. I think the working capital also is very much required at this juncture. And we should have something, okay, in whatever form. And at the same time, as far as moratorium is concerned, most of the banks have extended to three months. But I think one more thing is required is that that, you know, RBI has already reduced the CRR and the report it. Okay. Now these banks have to pass on this interest rate reduction to their SME. And in fact, the state government should also think of giving subvention of two to three percent to the SME so that the SME can move forward. I think it's a very tough time. But of course, as far as India is concerned, we are not so severely hit. Temperatures are going high. And I have been told and most of the people are saying that if the temperature process 35 to 40 degrees in most parts of this country, I think this, this problem will come down substantially and things will be normal. So of course, going forward, we will require more and more investors to come and look into the SME and they start investing. As far as listing is concerned, as far as listing is concerned, yes, of course, we will keep on telling to the promoters about the benefits of listing. But this whole ecosystem needs to get created. There's a demand. The supplier needs to come and supply has to come both from the government side and from the angel PBC community. Sure. Thanks. Indeed. Yeah. You're right. Just to add to the point that he mentioned about the coming in and sort of looking to change around the from debt to equity. Do you think that is possible? That is something that the government is contemplating or from a banking level. Sorry. I'm just trying to get my mute off. You know, all these are very important ideas. And I think we will keep feeding them back into the system. How to look at it, how to get the balance sheets back in order. They're clearly there. The point that we're leveraging always create huge issues forward. I completely agree with that. I firmly believe that in the next 24 months, the fastest growing segment for us will be MSNBs. I believe in that. I'll tell you why one of the things which mentioned Mr. Myra mentioned also very importantly, there's going to be a you in the global supply chain. That's why supply chains will typically tend to move closer to where the market is and that case India is where the market is to a large. There will be certain sectors in which we will be able very quickly to increase our global market share. New supply chains which will be created and MSNBs will be the heart of that entire supply chain part. And the most important strength of the Indian MSNBs is their nimbleness and their ability to innovate. I'm seeing that even today. We're getting ventilators made from entities which are MSME entities, which have the solutions which never ventured into that. They were just forging companies. You have small power coming out making mass. Sorry, I'm taking so much time but the innovation and the nimbleness of the MSME in India is where its biggest strength is. Those two elements with the support of the market, the government, what are the recipes going forward? I'll just be quiet. I've taken those points now. Thank you, Mr. Bagler. Let me come to you, Mr. Abhishek Singh. Now, since we have three panelists who have mentioned the need for the cash to meet the cash crunch. The way I see it is that the runway for different companies is going to be very different within the SMB space. Now, there are going to be some SMBs which are going to be able to meet a long distance, which is like somewhere between 6 to 12 months. It could be hospitality. It could be ancillary of export companies or so many others which would need a runway of at least about maybe 8 to 10 months minimum to come back to be able to be where they are. And then they're going to meet up some mid runway companies like let's say even retail or restaurants, hospitality. They would need at least a six month event, I would feel. I mean, we are a media company, we understand that. They have at least a six month window from here to go forward. And then there are small runway companies, you know, which would probably bounce back within three months. Now, they would all need different contingency plans. Different financial needs would be there. Their working capital needs would be there. So at Lending Cart, are you planning to do some products or are you planning to launch some kind of working capital financial models which would help these companies to be able to come back at a very good speed? I mean, and this could be probably being collaboration with banks. It could be in collaboration with some other financial institutions. Is there something you're working on currently? Thanks, Ratu. And I see that a lot of homework has been done with respect to, you know, how different industries are going to behave in the short term, medium term and long term. And obviously there are certain parts of the businesses which are not as highly impacted right now because they are part of essential services, right? So whether it be grocery, whether it be pharma, whether it be medicine. Those industries are not really feeling the pinch as of now, but obviously over macroeconomics scenario, there is some bit of demand that gets constrained there. Then there are industries like, you know, consumer developers and automobiles which typically are right now in a leaner period, but you know. What's the festival towards Diwali, Dashra is when they really pick up, right? So kind of coincides with the long term. So we will have some impact, but I think by the time, you know, the festivals come through, these industries will start picking up. And then there are the slightly longer term impacts with respect to hospitality, travel, gems and jewelry. I think these are industries which will take a bit of a warhead and will, you know, need some time. I think from a lending card perspective, we have always managed to find the right credit worthiness, evaluation parameters for SMEs and that's what we have been doing always. The situation is evolving a little bit because, you know, different industries are behaving differently. States, geography-wise cuts are behaving differently depending on the COVID spread. What we are actively looking at is, you know, A, how do I continue to fund basis in my regular set of products? And there obviously, as I mentioned, you know, the record age going down and the Sierra is going down. That is going to allow me to, you know, look at a slightly more affordable rate of interest in the immediate term, which then will get passed on to the borrowers. I think the other thing that we are actively looking at is, can I create some short-term working capital products to ensure that as industries, you know, try to come out of this particular curve, can I give them six to 12 months of loans to ensure that, you know, they get the right amount of funding to tide over the business difficulty that they're facing now. And then, you know, as they recover, can I then start looking at the longer term relationships? So there are multiple pieces we are working on, but I think it also depends on, you know, how long the program is going to persist and how these various industries are shaping up with respect to the time duration that they take to come back on their feet. So multiple things going on with the banks also. We have co-lending partnerships with multiple banks where we are again actively looking at, you know, how we can pass on the cost of funds boring that will happen to the borrowers and ensure that the liquidity in the system gets established. Sure. Thanks very much for that, Mr. Singh. Let me come to Mr. Roy. Roy, what according to you is going to be the rating procedure for SMEs as you go forward? You know, obviously they're not going to be able to meet their projections. They're not going to be able to meet even their EMIs that they may have with banks. So how is it that you're going to sort of change the entire way that you are looking at SMEs in the next, let's say quarter? Good afternoon, everybody. Very happy to be here. As of now, there is no regulations either from SEBI or RBI apart from the three month moratorium is there. So once the three month moratorium is over, you have to pay your capitalized interest, which will mean interest on interest. Actually, it will balloon. Of course, that we go back to one day of one rupee default. That's how the regulation stands. There is no such regulation. So from our perspective, we'll be doing two things. Not only SMEs, all corporates, we will be looking at the immediate cash flow and we will have to look at how the projections are hit, because clearly most of the corporates have to be marketed into two categories, discretionary and those who fall under essential commodities. India thankfully is an inward-looking economy. So our domestic consumption is a major driver. Within that, we are a services-led growth. Over the last few years, the main growth engine was a services-led growth. And there, the economy really the MSMEs show their metals. One of the major things that we will have to keep in mind is MSMEs employ close to 12 crore people. Most of them are non-contractors. Now, if that piece of 12 crore employment is hit, it will change the consumption pattern. And that in turn will hurt the other economies. So as of now, rating remains the same. For the three-month moratorium, it has to be one rupee, one day default. Even the companies who will be able to manage that piece, they will be encountered with the separate problem as to what happens to their business model per se, the continuity of their business. So that's a very, very critical area. It's still evolving. We will have to look. For GST and DEMON, we saw that discretionary spend, we saw a deferred purchase. So it caught up after some time. And for some events like for holidays or vacation or for aviation or for entertainment, movies, IPL, these are lost costs. That's loss. That's clearly revenue loss. That is, you cannot have a deferred purchase of those things. But for other items, probably they could have a deferred purchase. It all depends on the quantum of lockdown that we are looking at. We did a poll and the results were like that if the lockdown is about four weeks, then probably 20-25% SMEs would look at a potential closure. The impact severity will increase manifold if it becomes a eight-week closure. Sure. Well, one hopes it doesn't come to that. But you know, since you mentioned that the whole one rupee thing, that it will happen. So, honestly, the economy revival will really start post three months. I mean, these three months, anyway, they're going to... I'm assuming that... You're not audible. Can you hear me? You can't hear you at all. You can't hear you. The audio is a huge problem. No, none of us are able to hear you. Ritu, none of us are able to hear you. I'm unable to hear Ritu. In the meantime, can we take up some questions? Before anybody starts, hi, I'm Deepak Bagla. Can I have a question? Sure. You have done for us that how many would want it to be extended the lockdown and how many would want to open up just after this? Is that possible for you to get a vote on that? You want to ask a live poll, you mean? Of the poll which you are doing, right, as we speak. Sure. We can check internally if that's possible. And how many would be in favor of opening up just after this? Sure. So in the meantime, Abhishek, we had a question for you from the audience. They were asking that, would you trust a gym or fitness hub as it was the first industry which was affected by the pandemic? So what is your take on that? Look, what will end up happening is even after the lockdown, I think social distancing is something that people will continue to exercise. And therefore, as we discussed, there are certain industries which will continue to be impacted for a slightly longer term. Gym and fitness, let's see how quickly it is able to bounce back and how quickly we realize that the infections have stopped spreading. I think it will depend on that, right? And because as a lender, I need to make a risk proven call. I need to ensure that I'm finally funding a particular industry or a particular customer who would be able to pay back the invoice, right? And typically there's a moratorium right now, but we have to see whether there are any further imports from RBI that continue to come. But I think it will depend on which industries bounce back. I will not call out a gym or a fitness industry straight away separately, but there are industries which will take time to run. Mr. Kaur, Maida, a specific question one of the audience person has asked that how can they be a part of a cluster body and who would encourage such activities in their area? Mr. Maida, can you hear us? Yes, sorry, my mic was muted. I'm trying to answer that question in writing. It's a very important question. The foundation of MSME clusters is one organization that has been concentrating on helping MSMEs to form effective clusters. It also works, the foundation of MSME clusters with the Ministry of MSME. And the Ministry of MSME has developed and is rolling out a pretty large program which is focused on building what I would say is the soft infrastructure of clusters, which is their ability to work together with each other and to be able to then work with other stakeholders outside like the banks and like the government. So the foundation for MSME clusters is one point I could mention right now. As I said, I do know that the MSME Ministry itself has been for the last few months preparing and then beginning to roll out programs which are focused very much on clusters and their formation. The third is a foreign organization which is working in India for the long term, the GIZ, the German organization. And they've had a program for many years to assist clusters formation through associations of MSMEs like FISME, the foundation for MSME enterprises. So there are many, many people who have quite a while being clear that this is what MSMEs would benefit most from to solidify their own strengths and for the future. So I mentioned a few already. I can talk later in case people want to know more. Thank you. Okay, sure. So Mr. Bagla, we have a audience questions for you saying that there is a definition for companies mentioning as non-essential when they don't produce food or medicines, but when they cannot work, it is soon clear that they are essential in the sense that they provide salaries and job opportunities, otherwise unavailable. So the person would like to have your view on that. I personally agree that it is important for everyone to function and the ability to be their workers. But in times like this, as I said, we are in unusual times and the idea is to try and see how much we can save lives and the critical element with that was just to restrain mobility as much as possible. We're keeping that in mind and keeping just the basic necessity going on. I think this is just a period of a few weeks and that is where the essential items list has come in from, whether that makes good sense. Okay, sure. So I will take one more question for you from the audience. So what's your view on supply chain finance for short term on a clearly basis of BS and receivable as a collector? Look, that is a part of what we do, but we, most of our business is really into working capital supply chain is something that we look at and depending again on the industry and what kind of supply chain we are looking at, we take proactive calls on that. The RBI is looking at freeing up more capital when they inject liquidity. So I think depending on the right risk frameworks, we'll be able to take a call on that. Again, I don't have a specific answer for that. We'll have to evaluate my case by case basis and accordingly take a call on that. Okay, okay. One more question we'll take up from the audience. Mr. Bhavin has mentioned that for manufacturing units orders play a central role which has been low for past two, three months. Retail slump has also delayed the payment for small and medium-sized companies. So in the current scenario of non-funded companies, where the banks we see are fee, how does one manage the cash flow or paying once vendors in lieu of the current lockdown? Sakat, would you want to take this up? The order book is a very, very important component of it. Like I said, you have to differentiate between discretionary spending and essential commodity. A large volume of MSME is in the services sector. So those associated with the services sector, say for aviation, you have the crew, staff traveling. The full paraphrase area of people who are associated with movement of that group, the entertainment industry, you go to a mall, you go to a, this is the whole sort of the cleaning services, the offices. These will come with a deferred acquisition. The purchase will happen deferred, okay? Garbant sector, that will come in a deferred sector. People who are exporting, in the Middle East, the exports generally peak pre-Ramsad in April to May and June in that period, because they are also closed for quite a substantial amount. So this was the April, May was the time when a bulk of those exports happening was talking happened. If after 21 days, so all depends on the timing. After 21 days, the lockdown is actually different. Even in a fair manner in some of the locations, we could see a sort of flowing back of the loss which has happened. But the essential commodity, FMCG for example, people who are associated with the manufacture or with the supply chain of the Empire FMCG, we are seeing a higher business for them in the present period because people are clearly stocking. So order book is a very important component. The more important component will be what is the impact, the long-term impact it happened take place on the jobs. Because if that long-term impact happened on the employability of people, then it will impact the consumption pattern of the entire nation. So that is a bigger challenge. The RBI has already given monetary stimulus to tide over that. I'm sure the government will come out with fiscal stimulus sooner than later. That probably will, but there will be a clear loss for discretionary spending industries because this 21 days will be clearly a loss of revenue. So another question for you, Mr. Bhagla from our audience. Mr. Amir is asking what sectors could be affecting the most post-crisis with sectors would be the most where investors would be ready to invest. Investors would be better to answer those. But I personally think there will be a huge spurt of the moment we are done with this. And I would see some of those sectors which have already been mentioned, some sectors could open up in the first phase, second phase, third phase. Then I think we already had some of the panelists discuss that better. So those could be the sectors to be looking at. So any other panelists would like to add to it? With Ayushman Bharat in the works and operating any which with healthcare was in focus. Now, given the situation of a pandemic, I think probably it will get renewed focus. There were some states which had taken a lead in Ayushman Bharat and some states were slightly lagging behind. But I think everybody realize the importance of having top-class healthcare right down to the district and the state level. So I guess it will get much, much more focus than it was getting. Mr. Mayra, you need to unmute. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I want to pick up on what Saikat said. Three, four years ago, several of us, I mean, a hundred people in the country. We got together and said, let's look at how more jobs and it could be created in the country and more stable jobs with better incomes. And the small scale sector, the informal sectors, obviously the place one would look to how to strengthen that sector and to make it, you know, more each enterprise in the sector to be more sustainable. So looking at that, we said, then what are the sectors in which India is going to need to have more growth. And what he mentioned about healthcare was very clearly there. And we're not talking about big hospitals here, you see, that's the point, okay. We're talking about things being done locally and the different forms in which public health has to be strengthened. There's local, for example, there's apps which can help people to connect with various things regarding their health and sanitation and so on. And we projected that this sector could generate so many jobs and for local enterprises. The point is local enterprises, small enterprises. Another sector was the whole renewable sector, water management, local energy management, solar energy management, which is again something that the world is going to need more of an India too. So small enterprises which are growing in that sector, in the energy sector, second one. So if you start looking at the other way, the big things that India hasn't done well enough in so far, or the world hasn't done well enough in so far, those are opportunities. And very interestingly, most of those sectors provide big spaces, I mean a big space for small enterprises like even solar energy, the one I mentioned. So there is hope and we are going to need small enterprises to build the sort of economy that the world really needs to have. Okay, sure. So Mr. Pagala, the bold questions that you had mentioned, they had made that live and right now 42% say yes, 37% say no, and 21% still can't say whether they would want the lockdown period to be further extended post April 14th. How many said yes? 42% say yes, 37% say no, and 21% say can't say. Okay, thank you. Puneetha, I would like to come here, want to say something. Sure, sure. I think as a regulator, I would not like to throw much light on this sector one should invest and this sector one should not invest. Anyhow, today the market is up by 150 points. So I think now people are moving towards optimistic sense. As far as sectors are concerned as of now it seems that the FNC is doing well healthcare sector will be in the limelight. Of course, you know, now with exodus of the people towards agriculture side, you know where migrant laborers are going towards their hometown, and I don't know when they are going to come back. I think a lot of focus will also be on to the agriculture sector. Besides that, there will be a lot of innovations that will keep on happening, whereby you will find that people will try to bring a new and new innovation which required lesser interaction, human interaction. So I think you will see that people start focusing on robotics and all those things. Okay, where the interactions will be the minimal. This type of new, new things will start seeing happening and measurement will keep on coming. Okay, as of now we are importing 35% of various products from China. You know, a lot of focus will be that that our reliance on China will come down and we start producing in-house. And what that I think, you know, government sort of ensure that there should be a job doing business, keep on happening a lot of liquid, it should be provided to them. Moratorium period can be kept as long as it can be and equity inclusion should keep on taking place in those companies. So I think going forward, I am seeing a lot of opportunities. I am seeing India growing towards developing nation and new things will happen. Of course, I think India is on the verge of becoming a very big company and developed nation or what you can say developed nation. So Mr. Mayer, I think you would like to add to it. Yes, please. This is a time for building our nation. And the SMEs have a very critical role to help build the nation. We all have a very important responsibility as policy makers and people in the financial sector to help the SMEs at this time. They need help at this time, but they have a very critical role to play. And what is this? This comes out from what was just said about, you know, technologies that are going to displace workers. They are developing, no question about it. I'm not an economist, but I've become a great economist in the last 10 years grappling with economists on this question. That if we are developing technologies that displace people, then how are people going to earn and where's the market going to be? Okay, so we have to have innovations in India particularly because we want to engage more people so that they can earn so that there is a market. So, and in this, the small sector, the MSMEs have a great role to play. The MSMEs are greater uses of people and lesser uses of capital than large enterprises are. How they treat people that they have, how they build their skills, how they respect their needs is going to shape this country. It's going to shape this country. And we found in our surveys that we did in the planning commission and later that what is the prime difficulties that MSMEs have is finance. I mean, they need the oxygen most of all. None of them complained about the rigidity of labor laws as being a problem. Well, big industries say, oh, we can't fire people easily. So let us fire a few more people so that we are attractive to investors and can grow. Unfortunately, that makes India's problems even worse. And so I come to the SMMEs, what they do in engaging more people and treating them fairly and building their skills is building India. And so in growing your enterprises, please concentrate on the people that you engage on their growth and development along with yourself. That is really going to build the strength of India as a nation. So I'm sorry to be preaching a piece of advice, but I've learned this through my life. People are the only real asset that any organization has and the only asset in the organization that appreciates its own value can appreciate this value. Everything else depreciates its value in time. So please let's build the people strengths of your enterprises and the people strength of our country. So Mr. Mara, there's another question for you from the audience by Mr. Sunil. He says with respect to the infrastructure sector and MSME involved in the sector, especially government infrastructure, what will be the impact when a lot of government funds could have been diverted towards taking care of the present crisis. Will these projects be put on hold? I can't say. I mean, maybe the book is closer to that and many others even have to be even closer because things are moving very fast. Things are moving very fast, but I would say this much that in execution of anything now in the execution, there's going to be a role for the last mile in anything. You can give a lot of funds to a sector, but for what has to get done a lot has to get done on the ground in any sector like healthcare like we mentioned, I'm saying same about infrastructure. Please, there's going to be a lot of growth for the MSMEs possible. And this is the time, therefore, for MSMEs not to feel, oh, bichari, we're here to get together and say we can do it. We can do it and make us part of this effort and we can do it for which you've got to be building your own capabilities. That's the point I make now. Please, I think there's a big opportunity if the funds go down on the top in the last mile, who's going to be the users? Who are going to be the implementers? It's going to be MSMEs. Okay. Yeah, Sakat, you would like to add to it? To the earlier question with Mr. Hakur and Mr. Maria replied, just to share some statistics with you, developed economy. You look at UK, you look at Germany, you look at Singapore. The MSME contribution to GDP is to the extent of 50-55%. In India, the contribution is 30-35%. So we have a long way to go. There are policies in place. Now, like for everything else in India, there has to be penal action for things to happen. There was a guideline which says that discounts need to buy renewable energy power to an extent. It was in limbo for a long time, and then the penal action regime came in. Renewable energy certificates came in. And now, seven years ago, we were talking about grid parity. Today, we see solar in some Gujarat and a couple of other states has gone below thermal in the tariff. Similarly, we have a public procurement policy which says 25% has to be procured from the MSMEs. Out of that, 5% is reserved for socially-backward SCSB entrepreneurs. I don't think the PSU governments, all the balance sheets are available. You can go to them. You can get data from NSIC website. That procurement, nobody reaches to that 25% procurement, which is mandated by law that they need to take. All government agencies and PSU need to take it. So they came with a logic that, okay, Mira districtmate is not available. I can't find it in my catchment. So MSME ministry came out and along with NSIC, we came out with a website called MSME data bank. You can register. This is for your audience also. You have to register free. You can get the Udyog Aadhar number. Your name, product will go up on the MSME data bank. So any consumer who wants to procure your data can look at data-wise, district-wise, PIN code-wise. They can shortlist that, okay, this data is available. The other thing which happened is government launched for all secretaries and the government department, GEM, government e-market place where MSMEs can log in and sell their products online. Now, how this was supposed to work? This was supposed to work. What Mr. Maria said is finished. It was supposed to work that, okay, government will give an invoice which is approved that ESI will pay and they will go to the TREDS platform and they can immediately get the money. So you're working capital for the very small guys taken care of. Now, TREDS platform is not taking up. Today, there is a mandate that about 500 crore turnover, if I'm not wrong. The PSU need to mandatory list. So again, we need penal action for the policies also to act. So if you will force everybody on the PSUs to go at by 25% from the MSMEs, we will reach the level of statistic which a developed economy, 50%-45% MSME contribution is the GDP. I think with this, we would just like to close the session with one parting note from each one of you. Thank you. Can I just take that one on? Sure. Listen, I've been hearing this for a while. There is absolutely no doubt that the backbone of the Indian economy is our MSME. And that is where our entire strength lies. Business post-COVID is going to be completely different from what it was before COVID. And the set of new opportunities which will open up, especially in India, will be most focused for the entire MSME community. And I must also say that internally, there is absolute focus to try and see how we can make that entire segment more robust and provide it all support. I personally think this is MSME in India is now going to be the next future fastest growth point going forward. I really want to emphasize that even on matters that you... Mr. Mayra, one parting note from you for our audience. Underline what Deepak said once and twice. Two underlines. Thank you. That's it. He said it. So, thanks. There is a very interesting phase. There is no comparable data post-World War II. So, actually, it's a blessing in disguise that you don't have to... siloize ourselves. We can just go about doing anything and everything that we have. And we have two very big challenges. Save lives and then save our livelihood. What has happened today will structurally change. All our organizations have business continuity plan, but those plans were based that tomorrow we will go back to office or we will go to another location, server in Pune, server in Nasik. So, we always thought we will go back to the office. It has never happened that office in Japan. We will never go back to office. So, I think the digital push will be ingrained in business continuity plan. I think Mr. Thakur mentioned localization of the supply chain and increasingly Indian MSMEs will get. So, that already has started. Corporates have already started exploring localization of the supply chain. What we need the government to do is brass-tack sort of incentive. Now, in the ports, there is lockdown of 14 days. Your containers will be released after 14 days. The MSMEs are going to encourage, demolish and interest costs. These needs to be just simply waived off. They are not in a position to pay salaries. These have to be waived off. Canadian PM has announced that there is a certain category of enterprises. 75% of the wages will be taken care of. Now, we cannot allow our India's consumption pattern to get disturbed. That will have long-term effect. The Honourable Finance Minister came out with a very to-the-point press release regarding the compliance issues. That kind of to-the-point press release happens only when you have enough feedback from the associations and the people who are running the businesses. We need people like Mr. Bagla and other people to go and touch base with the Industrial Association, the people whose businesses it is. And on that feedback, a very brass-tack fiscal stimulus must come in sooner than later. Thanks. Mr. Thakur, Mr. Thakur, you need to unmute. I think going forward, there will be a lot of opportunity to almost all sectors. I'm not singling out that any other sector is not going to do well. The existing sector will keep on moving the way it is moving. Of course, there will be some sort of innovation that will keep on happening. The need of the hour will be that it should be a joint effort by all the stakeholders to ensure that SMEs should keep on moving as smoothly, not only from the government side, from all other stakeholders also. And other SMEs, whether they are into local or domestic markets or international markets, they have to also ensure that the business keep on happening between them. So that will be the need of the hour. Thanks. Abitraik, final words from you. I think we as lenders need to remember that fundamentally, businesses which were doing very well before COVID have not suddenly become bad businesses. It's an external stop or pause which has caused us to re-look at some of the financials. And I think if we provide the right submitters both from the government as well as from a lenders perspective, the MSME sector can really, really go through the roof and help in national building. I think that's the view that we as lenders need to take and ensure that we follow the right guidelines and the right lending mechanisms to make that happen. Okay, thanks. So with this, we would like to conclude the panel. It was wonderful to have you all here and thank you so much for your time. We wish to see you again in the near future and hopefully offline and not in the confines of our houses. So stay healthy, stay safe everyone and let's fight the virus together. Thank you.