 okay guys we they were pretty hard to follow there's been a lot of digital sort of existentialist of words are being said about anything which is non-digital but I think today at least for this session we are going from macro to micro and we are going from if, to use Sanjay's sort of analogy we are going way away from digital as a platform to digital as a attended from daily as a product or service we are not talking about utlich  Cincinne  먅रे गिरद़ यह नहीं है विर्ची तुछरी लोग है विर्ची ख़श्ता के व耶्गवार कराव्टे करिजा से चप्ता है विर्ची नहीं ज़ोग वो ज़ब अँगार भी एक वे अग़ते की की वें मьте защᴓ проблема  weigh be said that  wła take that whatever tv was at 37 digital was about 23 रrage that is a 19. We выглядит 35 for digital for muti, wea expecting it to go to 35 for digital, for muti, और वेदाहां यहन तểu kodata hiyeen dhyaga tha. For digital why the बाहरिक्तना कहे� कुट जोन्बाशिना इलीः कि आजाए्ड़ा लग्दनार है? कि आजाएड़ा आजाएड़ा देच्ड़िग है? कुट व dur h आजाएड़ा ब गरने की संफोनने लीएग की जी कि पुछ्ट लेग के लेगाग। कुट आजाएड़ादे बगामसे रफohn बटांज workforce fact visual मुअऊ گै भगमच्लंहना यक सकना, बटांजा। औरत्वाबन आख्ताम, और आइक्同ón चाह्वहनाій के, मैंटामंत लोगा, एक ज mainsग़ जीदिन, नोगा स्देएषे, एक गि।, जीजत्बाश़ा ऐक limeच्य क। � Curiosity 我 personnally ौ ög  Alber dhe keshwar raij tab bine on the radar to use a whole lot of analogies spoken earlier to the behemoth that it is today and he was driving revenues fair and square. ॐ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ U. T. B. ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ आपट्टी बद्टे, और ड़ाजेíसगे है! और से यह थी है यह वॉल्गता है, मिले टी्थी की बागताओ़ हमाद! असी विल मोगतागे, वे ठी।, तो वे विल कप वो तराज़ एक लिए बवगाद है कुल बस्पिक्तिटेंगur is near । अदिजों बड़़़िट की भोगटी तोểmा की स्थोनी शॉझर्यों तो मुरन्य मून्जाisonय तीनाई होगडरान्गावाशटुर । आफ मोगतारे लागा स्थापुवायfirst छूँई कि अँऩाने क्यों नही राई वोग मूह, दिर और और वोग मेंगगा सछाँँ दरिए क्यों जाूत. तम फ्र प्र सी शुगित घर चब अजा जाँँट क्यों लोग़ा, वो आप का अप धोन के देखाँठादवाम। जोगाでした, because of poor all media and entertainment industry. भी हम आँगर, जो और बराशा से मिनी ढिए काई तो कि आ ज़ानते यादे? जो जहाक ग़ सेचा कागा वोगा एप ग़े जोगा गोगा वहाँ नहीं ज्हीं, नहीं उरभ।, परनी तेदोज भी गर।, अगर और चोस तेदोगी विना ग़ा, अगर of TV screens are still in the range of 200 million and if you look at 2023 that 200 million TV screens will go to 250 and the mobile screens will go to 750 close to a billion screens is what consumers will be watching content on. So that's an opportunity for TV plus digital because on both the platforms you will be seeing as I said a confluence of content either through a streaming methodology or the OTT methodology. Look at the watch time per week in India. It's not as if a watch time is going down on one platform or the both the platforms are complimenting each other. So the overall watch time for video content in India is growing. So it's a fantastic time if you're in a video industry and either of the platforms. Now let's look at what happens because of that TV. I think even in Sam's presentation we saw that almost 613 million viewers tune into watch TV each day even today in India and these are India's stats. That's close to half India's population and if you move that to a monthly basis close to 850 million Indians watch television 98% of Indian TV households have a single TV. There's an implication of that on an average 3.46 individuals per family watch TV together. India is still a social country. India is still a very family oriented country. Weaving content together is still a big habit and a lot of decisions for chase decisions or any other decisions are taken by the family or by influenced by the family and that's why this is important. So while this is happening on TV look at what's happening on the mobile phone. On an average a user spends 3 hours online and of that 90 minutes is video consumption. In fact 75% of mobile traffic in India is video. How does that make a difference? Sorry. Can you please? So as you saw while TV drives entire family weaving and engages close to 600 million Indians there are close to 60 to 70 million Indians who are currently watching and if I add YouTube it's close to 300 million Indians who want to watch content on their own platform. And there's an overlap between the two. And this is a statistic which is very important while everyone keeps on saying that digital is growing yes digital is growing. So you look at the growth rate 68% increase in the chatter for online weaving at a base of 32,000. But television with a base of 125,000 chatters in a day is still growing at 15%. So that's a very important thing to keep in mind that while both the platforms have a different proposition both the platforms are growing. So if you are a market here you cannot ignore one because just look at what the consumers are talking about TV. TV weaving in India is more of a family activity whereas if you look at OTT I can choose any content to watch. So both the platforms are serving very different and very unique requirements which enables the advertiser or the market here to reach out to the consumer who is present on any of this platform. So if you are a marketing person simple TV will drive unprecedented awareness whereas digital will focus on customization. Just think like this as I said 1 billion screens and this is a classic example what we did. I don't want to play the video in the interest of time but just look at the stat TV delivered 762 million consumers. It's more than anyone or the total population which watched the results of last year's elections. And when you look at digital it allowed you to play so it gave the consumer a choice to do and engage with the same match and that reached us close to 300 million. So while hot star platform saw the increase of consumer audience to 300 million during IPL TV also grew to 750 million plus. So content watching on both the platforms is increasing rapidly. So I will just think from this perspective that advertising needs are evolving very fast because currently as we heard in the last presentation about Raymans also the consumer is wanting different experiences different platforms to take a decision. He's going on the channel so you have to be on the channel you have to be enabling efficient targeting custom messaging brand safety deep integration real time monitoring. All these are things which as a marketing person you have to start thinking now. I think in today's world coming back to why TV and digital are both coexisting. I think this is where TV plus digital will enable both. I would like to leave this slide as the end of my presentation which will enable us to have the further conversation in our panel. Thank you. If you can just keep that slide. Lovely. No no we'll squeeze a few things out. Okay great. Okay thanks to them that was a great sort of perspective builder. What they're saying is that clearly consumers are still watching TV is just that people are now consuming more media so they're coaching TV and of course consuming digital content. Number two he's saying that yes that content is exploding on both platforms and now people have got more options on what to choose. So how actually content creators engage with consumers is actually going to become pretty key to who's going to succeed. He's also made it very clear the relative strengths of TV versus digital that's right in the back so I'm not going to repeat that. Again I'm going to bring the focus back to saying that this panel discussion is about taking positions on how much will go into TV and how much will go into digital. It's a pitch Madison event after all it's all about how much will be spent on mediums. So okay so now digital ads as Sam also pointed out fifteen thousand five hundred odd crores is broken up into display search social and video out of which video is about four and a half thousand. If I take a little bit of the social video which is also to do with TV ads it might go to five thousand or thereabouts. Added to the twenty five thousand odd crores of TV you have about sixteen percent of TV plus video currently coming from digital. So let's first start by deconstructing digital only to the video TV part and asking the marketers first what is your current split of your TV commercial between TV and digital video. So with would like to start we'll start with the number and then we'll get into the innards. Absolutely. For me I think I agree with a lot of stuff that was said TV will remain important but digital is growing and is growing very fast. The short answer to your question Vikram is almost close to twenty to twenty five percent of my spends month on month are on digital. So if I spend X twenty to twenty five percent every month for a food brand like mine we spend on digital on media. So you've got twenty to twenty five percent coming from a FMCG food marketer. Good banking week a whole lot different Mr. 811. So this year for the first time we've actually over indexed quite dramatically even for the video on digital. So we are in the middle of an experiment right now where we are sixty forty digital to TV. And this is only for the video brand part and the performance part which again is sixty of the total is also digital again. So we are grossly over indexed on digital currently but it's an experiment. I must also caution that and jury is still out. Okay so twenty five here sixty in banking entertainment and now you have to wear your marketing hat. Yes I am wearing the marketing hat. So it's about fifteen percent for us. It's also coming from that we are in a category like entertainment where and also we are very very big in regionals. So if I were to just give a context like last week we've launched something in Bhochpuri. Yeah it was a Bhochpuri movie channel which opened as number one. But when I try and reach that audience on digital it's fairly difficult. So that's the reason possibly why we over indexed to be able to advertise on all the nine or ten languages in which we kind of win. So that's the kind of split. So fifteen percent odd is what we are saying. Adi do these numbers warm the cockles of your heart or are you still more greedy at this point in time. You know I think the way we are all looking at it is going to change dramatically and I think the way you all are going to present your report is going to change dramatically. I think TV print digital these are just mediums that we as marketers are thinking about. What is the consumer consuming is consuming video is consuming text is consuming experience and is consuming audio. I think every advertiser has to figure out what's the mix within each medium and across these four because if you totally want to you know reach a consumer you have to use all four and then you have to use the optimum mix. Each of you have to figure out what each everyone has to do what is their optimum mix and I through the piece of through this will want to maybe share with you are you leveraging digital to the fullest. We all see these big numbers but do we really know how powerful this medium is and if I can make you all think a little bit more about the power of the medium I think I would have done my job on this panel. But you haven't come out with a number. Well I think digital is going to double digital addicts is going to double in the next five years but I think the question is we are not here in a race who is going to go ahead of the other the question is everybody will grow and how do you all grow sustainably. I'm going to leave you out of this past unless you want to give a number at this point but I have I want to go into the I'm not a marketer. But but tell me one thing right now when the game back to the marketers on this split bit are you currently viewing do you have a TV budget and then you have another silo for a digital budget. Or do you truly in your minds have one agnostic budget and you are sort of allocating for the same task something to TV something to digital and hand them heart. Jyobhi kahunga sach kahunga. For me the question is a little different. It is not about what budget comes for television or digital. I think one of the things that in my experience I have seen which digital has been really been able to add for me personally and equally in almost every role I have done is it has reduced the cost of failure. What we have been able to do with digital is you know in the traditional environment if I go back 7 8 10 years back and you know I work with any lever. So when you have an innovation there is a certain testing methodology you would want to be sure because the kind of investments that will go behind a big bit will be at a certain level. I think the dynamics there has changed significantly you can afford to fail because you can fail cheap when it comes to digital and that's what we have been able to do. So the kind of innovations that we want to get in which would typically have been just store back innovations at a point of time with focused marketing with checking a couple of markets that we want to go with. We are able to try pilot launch and learn more than have a very 2 year, 3 year pipeline of doing things. That change in mindset has been really really valuable for me on how we try to approach digital versus just a budget conversation. No but I'll still push on if you have a you would have made your annual operating plan you would have had a budget there. At that point in time did you actually think that I have to allocate this much to TV this much to digital or did it organically come from the process that you would have gone through to finally say oh by the way the end is 75 25 that you just mentioned. Yeah I don't think we start with filters Vikram at all. It's a reach and an advocacy based planning and then wherever it ends up being so where we end up being is a function of planning itself. I don't think we are in a situation now that we have only television for reach digital can do as well. There are lots of measurement conversations we can have at any point of time but you can deliver reach and that's what we have been able to do. And what you concur is it an organic process or silos. No there are no silos for sure it's but compared to FMCG's we are very small advertisers honestly. So on that basis for us it's I get to bet the farm and I don't really risk losing much. So it's really incremental budget number and then I also get away with murder so I get to play a lot. So it is it is but it's like that so it has crude is that honestly. So basically yours what you can afford and then plus plus on top of that. No it's in fact it's all in the pot this time. We are in the middle of an experiment where the bulk of my money for a new film with a big celebrity has 90% gone into digital. And then we added TV only for markets where we thought that we needed the bolstering of TV because they were very sharply regional and there was a bias against the celebrity etc. So we've added some other content and so on. So it's actually severely over indexed on digital but I am also completely sanguine and cognizant that it's an experiment because the truth is and this is the problem that it's not like data is great in digital either right. We have to believe what he says and we have a problem with that. We'd rather that there were somebody outside telling us what was going on and so we are also on poke poke appearing. You wanted to turn the board right. Yeah we can't let. Only pointy idiot because you are here. I am waiting for this right. It's about your community in general. So when you are planning you are doing your annual plan making your marketing budget. I would urge you to think about a few things. How important is your first party data to your business? Do you want to use your first party data? Do you want to use your campaign data? Do you think that can make your advertising more effective? Number one. Number two, do you think different audiences need to be served different creatives? Is it broadcast or is it precision? If you believe broadcast works for you, sure. But if you really want to serve the right message or right person, think again digital. And thirdly on measurement which is your point. What do you want to measure? Do you want to measure GRPs and CPRPs which is input metrics? You actually want to measure how many people walked into your bank. How many people actually bought your conflicts, right? If you want to measure outcome, if you want to measure effectiveness, don't believe us. Work with Kantar, work with Nielsen. They will actually show you what kind of lift it's happening to your product. Today we have solutions for auto manufacturers. We can tell you a person who saw an ad for a Maruti car on YouTube. Did they actually walk into a Maruti dealership? Did they actually fill the form? So measurement is about how we view measurement in the digital age. Are we measuring input? Are we measuring output? And I think if these three things matter to you in your business, I think you should be thinking about the share you allocate. And finally think of your digital partners as more than advertising partners. Today we can tell you where the next 50 ATM should be opened. That could actually be a huge efficiency for your business. Using machine learning, using Google Maps signals, we can actually tell you not to waste your resources and where to actually plant your next set of ATM. So there's a lot you can leverage digital. And I would say think of it as beyond advertising as well. You've moved right down the funnel. I wanted to start at the top of the funnel. Let's start with awareness. And that's the point that Nitin also raised. So let's first ask the awareness question to Mr. Google himself. Why does Google advertise on TV? As long as there are users on our platform, we'll be on that platform. We are agnese on TV. We'll be on outdoor. We are everywhere consumers are. Today every single consumer is you touching digital. With 400 million people on the internet, we still have another 600 million people to go. Where we can find users, we'll be there. And I think it's about how smartly we're using the mix. And I think we're using the mix pretty well because our today monthly active users on YouTube, not as per Google, as per ComScore is 387 million. That is more than large networks have. I'm not taking the network. An entire network is what YouTube has. Nitin, what is your view like to like of TV, the ability to create awareness. Supposing the same 100 consumers see the ad on TV and say on the digital platform. Do you believe that the awareness levels will be the same or will they be different? And I'll also ask the same question to Prathisha who will now wear her broadcaster hat. So there are two ways to look at awareness. The first is how many people saw my ad? That's pure. Same number of people see both ads. The second part of it is to see how many of them remembered the ad and attributed it to the medium on which they saw that. And I think that is far more important and how long do you retain the importance of that. And I think over the last multiple years television has proved the credibility of that. The challenge on digital medium is that it's not about reach which they can provide. So as he rightly said, YouTube can provide close to 350 or 380 million reach which television channels can also provide. The question is how many people do recall and associate that ad with a digital channel. Do you believe TV does that job better? Yeah, in terms of long term recall the TV association is far higher. And Prathisha, what would you say? Actually, I'll actually add data to that thing which he has just said. So if there are 830 million people overall on TV just as a benchmark, there are 7 and let me talk the digital language so that everybody understands. 740 million is mouse and the 613 is the douse and 98.5% is available for advertising which means they actually do active watching of advertising and not a passive watching that happens. And hence you have a fairly captive audience available for you and the decade that he spoke about for TV it's about 108 days. So the analytic 2 metrics the metric of the short term advertising strength and the long term decay the short term advertising strength is again highest for TV compared to any other media so it's about like a 140% over index versus any of the digital media and the long term so now the penny drop moment if it's 108 on TV how many days do you think it's on digital? quick poll audience se poche rahe hain how many days do you think it takes for an ad to completely lose its value and decay in digital it's a little better it's a week, it's 6 to 8 days is the by 8th day completely forgotten no effect fantastic will the two of you validate or invalidate these claims do you believe the aware for the same they are saying the quality of awareness that you generate through TV is better than that you get online so sorry sumit would you like to take a and then Karthi I can count the need to be a contrarian so I think two data points one what we do a lot to sort of break this clutter is look at a lot of market mix modelling because ultimately it's all about sales just want to cut the equity measures everything else out of the way for a minute and what we have seen is that digital returns till a particular point of investment are better than television so we have been able to consistently see of course beyond the point there are always those S curves that you can end up looking at but till a certain point at least till the level of investments we have been making till now for every penny spent I have been making better returns in terms of sales of take versus television in the short term are you saying you get a better return and what about the decay point see I mean I have heard the same data points so it's beyond the point very difficult to dispute any data points what I am trying to right now say is that when I look at last three years of modelling data which is what a little more if we look at it digital ROIs at 20-25% of spends seem to be working pretty well and you were talking about a campaign where you put 90% for a launch so would you so different point of view on the power of digital so here's what I'll say which probably reinforces Prathisha's data points in a very Punjabi way feel niyati and I know it's really stupid and immature and completely juvenile to play on that and be in the presence of data grades like this and to say that but you know the funny thing is even in other campaigns where I have experimented half and half and so on and so forth I have seen that when something is running on TV then the whole ecosystem of influencers is palpably has seen it and has reached TV plus cinema particularly this palpably seen it and reached out and reacted TV plus digital same thing pure digital ship in the night so far that's the worry I have and this experiment is the most aggressive when I am doing so Judy is out yet I am going to help you validate it because you are seeing that feel niyati element is is purely in favor of TV I'll come to the data also so what we track the mind matrix we also track searches and we also track business and again we see that when it's we are seeing so far when it's purely digital it's turn the tap on turn the tap off and it's linear but you add TV to the mix we are seeing a bump up so sure yet honestly because TV is very expensive as well so pro data it I am a little on the fence right now but again it's the game is not over and to Prachisha's point if I have to wait for the decay to wear out and then see the value it's a little while away so next year this time is when I think I'll be able to comment confidently with the data can I add data to why he says feel niyata it's on TV you are broadly seeing the full coverage right listening to that story in a storytelling context and data says that 58% people believe emotional advertising and kind of are convinced better on TV and there also that active viewing thing which I spoke about the not watching or switching off watching an ad is as was 2% on TV so which means if I caught it even once I intended to watch that ad and I watched it and hence it registers a lot better which is the reason why who feel aaja thai TV pe and also that threshold break even it's also that thing which Nitin presented right 3.6 people watching together feeling good about it and talking about it and to take Sanjay's thing on the multiplier effect when three people together feel it's really great and talk versus one person is convinced on one point no great I want to cover a lot of grounds of awareness building thing and that is to do with the creative now YouTube has sort of told us the virtues of a skippable and therefore sort of built upon developing a creative where you put just about everything into the first five seconds pack shot, celebrity, message, drama everything into the first five seconds hot star on the other hand is telling us that we will give you even a 90 second unskippable not skippable advertising was supposed to be done in a particular manner storytelling and narrative was supposed to be done in a proper pristine manner you can pretty much follow it you are completely different in one case you are totally changing the way the creative is going to be rendered and in the other one the pristine form is is sort of maintained we don't have only that we also offer the small second ads no no sorry you know not to say that you don't take the others but the point still remains that there is a in principle I mean most of his advertising is all coming through the skippable so do you have a we will of course again go to the arbiters of all our fates by actually coming to what actually works does the changing your creative work or retaining the old creative the story arc has fundamentally changed in a mobile first world then the story arc is a very common of scrolling skipping if you are not capturing your story arc traditionally was start with a build up get to the crescendo then have a close and end that was a traditional story arc today the story arc is a James Bond film the James Bond film trailer is the best part of the movie you see the trailer you want to watch the film that is the essence of digital advertising and we also have the long form version you expose somebody to the short form if they are interested remark it to them and show them the long form you are not forcing content down somebody's throat if they don't want to watch it and that's why and this is not me saying again Millward Brown published a study recently where they equate an impression on TV to an impression on digital and their view is that an impression on digital gives you three times lift on brand was an impression on TV because the viewer is choosing to engage with your content Nithin you have countered to that that's unfair the first part is I think including YouTube and Hotstar both of them offer both 5 seconds to 30 seconds or 90 seconds right so there is no question I think from a marketer perspective there are two things to be there is no replacement for great creative be it in a 5 second or 30 second or 90 second so you can run a run of the Millard be it in 5 seconds or 30 seconds and it won't be noticed by anyone so there is no replacement for great creative so let's have that fact established and the biggest challenge in digital platform be it on YouTube or Hotstar or any the fickleness of the customer the span of attention on a digital platform is extremely small so the moment the consumer gets a choice that he doesn't want to see it even if it's not a skippable ad he will change the screen he'll just leave the platform so you have to think as an advertiser what is it that you want to engage and how are you engaging with the customer so it doesn't matter whether it is 5 seconds or 30 seconds my view is the creative matters how you engage the consumer be it in that 5 seconds or in that 30 seconds or 90 seconds you won't believe it and I'll give you a fact I don't know how many of you remember there was a I think 3 years back Samsung ran an ad for their service mechanic for providing television repairs in some Kashmir or some part of it it was a close to 2 minute creative and I was in Google at that point of time it had a skippable format normally the skip rate is 30% of the people see the full ad but 70% kind of skip it that had close to 70% completion rate it was a 2 minute ad so it all depends on the content and the engagement which you have and Karthi you cut your teeth and advertising and does your skin crawl when you have to totally mutilate the ad or re-edit the ad or you don't look it that way so I have a confession to make and this cuts you some slack ad so my most efficient form of sales acquisition advertising is a shitty email which as a brand custodian I cringe to even put out but I spend most of my money on that today because the customer I get with that is exactly as good as the customer I am getting via Facebook via Google via television advertising via my sales guy knocking on the door I hate it I hate the fact that everything I grew up learning at the feet of greats like you Vikram is really being questioned today and you know this thing that the great creative must be allowed to flourish is something I'd love to believe but frankly today I'm not so sure I'm not so sure that the customer gives a rat's ass sure she enjoys a great ad no doubt about it she enjoys a great ad as if she were watching a mini mini web series but she watches it and she moves on quite likely that risk is there that she hang on to it and say hey I love this brand I'm gonna go and get some tomorrow jury is out I think the time has come for the jury to be out on that business Sunit, would you concur? absolutely I think putting the same creative everywhere is just lazy marketing nothing else and you know honestly if you think about it it's not now don't think digital think TV in store we have had those discussions saying you put the same mummy and son on a in store visual and it'll work it doesn't work right the consumer journey is different how is that different from this you need to know what the consumer is doing on Instite wanna be different from what he's doing on Twitter from TikTok to YouTube you have to work this is what's happening there and you have to tweak so you have to have the flexibility in your mind first and then in your brand idea the idea remains the same but the creative will be suiting what the platform is has to I would like to add a Piyush on the panel so I was at a creative community and they said how is creative changed in the digital age and this guy came and said think about the creative hamburger said in the center is great people and great ideas that is going to be the core of storytelling that has been there 100 years ago and 100 years later that will still remain what we as creative people have are the two buns which is data and technology the data can tell you who to reach how to reach test and technology can let you do things at scale and when you bite this juicy burger with all three parts of it together that's when you unlock the full power of creator so I thought it was an interesting analogy to think about storytelling in the times we live in to share okay you talked let's go down the funnel we started with the awareness piece now marketers use the entire media piece for yes building awareness for engagement and performance and I mean from our journey standpoint at least engagement is a little bit about getting them to think explore the brand as well as experience feel the brand and maybe even express share the brand and of course performance is the entire getting them to act download sales and whatever else it might be walk-ins and stuff that we have to actually do through performance when we did our analysis in Madison we found that maybe 90% of the money of our clients was going into awareness building and now the balance most of the 10% is actually going in terms of money spent in performance engagement i.e. content and other kind of good stuff and which actually makes you sort of immerse yourself in the brand spend wise is not high time of money time of share of mind and kind of initiatives that you do is still pretty high how are you guys seeing the pie changing from awareness engagement and performance in terms of how the money is going to be cut and then within that the role of TV and digital so I'd like Sumit what do you like to take it in especially I think it's important for example you're trying to change food habits now is that going to happen by awareness building stuff or is it going to happen through pure engagement with which habits will change or will it be through just hard sell of getting people to actually go out and buy one work for you or the other no I think it's you're right it's a conundrum that we talk all the time honestly do I have a definite answer no I know I can measure awareness I can measure convergence I can't measure engagement and that's why my focus ends up being on awareness and it's as simple as that there is nothing else so would I want to spend more on influencers engagement etc yaya of course but I think what I know is what how much convergence I drive out of awareness itself and how much I spend on e-com and so much on other platforms to drive performance marketing I know those numbers and therefore I go with those no so we manage what we measure but this is now a pretty expensive question because if a habit change is required and you feel that maybe popular culture i.e. integration into content can change habits but you can't measure it and therefore you're not doing it isn't that an opportunity loss I don't think it's about not doing it I think is it embedded in our working I don't I won't feel confident of embedding it it into my everyday working unless and until I know how effective it is on a regular basis I know it for the other too I don't know it for these that's what Pratusha for you a very manageable thing for all your launches is to get the ratings and reach of your launch programs up you also have to do a fair amount of awareness building and you can also do some amount of engagement building through the activations and other kind of you know you do a lot of integrations with your own shows and stuff so is there a formula that you have I think we're looking at engagement a little differently like for our category actually it's a bit like food but for us because it's I'm selling emotions and I'm telling you that come buy into emotions every night and it's a it's a in that sense always on behavior and I need to convince people every day to come and buy it like eating food every day so somewhere there engagement is actually just telling people that okay the show's coming or this event is on that day is not enough and that's actually what we do in the last 10 days awareness for us is actually the last 10 days the initial 30-35 days are spent in storytelling and engaging and the storytelling is in the form of convincing and saying this is the story on which you want to pitch the emotion and the whole engagement of integrate integrating it into other content actually I want to give you the Gulab Jamal example that we talked about before so we had this by-juice invested actually in content integration on zee marathi so what they did was in a family setup there's somebody talking about the by-juice app the next week 70,000 app downloads so there's fundamentally I think unfortunately there what happens on TV unlike digitalist there isn't a direct correlated metric but if for marketeers who are investing in mix modeling you will know the results but there is a sales uplift that happens which is phenomenal especially where it's category building like swiggy's example where he said 11,000% jump on search volumes content engagement on TV really seems to be doing the trick so nithin I know that you know in star samir nair at one time used to say that right through the early 2000s the entire kyunki and kahaani eight pack brand of serials they brought in a certain level of jewelry and chiffons and and the kind of upholstery that used to be there has actually gone on and created a whole mini industry and it's for that kind of growth now yet we find content solution teams within broadcasters still struggling today to actually reach the mainstream and of course it's very very profitable business for broadcasters because it's all known FCT what is your perspective on how we can drive this I think I don't want to comment on what happened prior to I was there in star but I think there's a huge opportunity currently if I look at the honest opinion if I look at the television content over the last 5 to 10 years there's a big opportunity for the market years and the television content creators to collaborate and engage with the consumer I think that's an opportunity which everyone will have to explore now whether for example a Kotak Mahindra can engage with a content creator on any of the television or OTT platform and ensure that the consumer's engagement is generated yes there's an opportunity can Kellogg's do the same thing yes there's an opportunity can Raymond's do that yes there's an opportunity I think that's an area which has to be explored in a much better way and I assume with the new content growth there's a huge opportunity and we should see that so we can see more sales people in the content side hope so just before we move tax to measurement I want to just touch upon this brand love versus performance and sales the entire e-commerce online business started by almost over indexing on performance almost at the cost of brand love and now they're probably trying to find and create some amount of brand love and we are actually finding that contagious because we are finding a whole load of legacy brands actually moving their money into performance maybe at the cost of actually building the equity what is the fine balance that you would try for Karthi struggling with it honestly because like I confessed the sales that I can shove through the funnel with the shittiest of communication pieces nobody is complaining about it in the office it's exactly like hiring some poor little swiggy delivery boy to become my brand sales guy who will also deliver roughly the same customer at the branch door so nobody would care if I shut down brand work honestly it's only me and my handful of colleagues who grew up believing that brand delivers long term value that it's still we're still in the game for and there's some loose faith to be fair I think leadership gets it instinctively but there they don't buy it at the in the bottom they don't buy it very easily so it's we try to do mix it up all the time so even when I'm doing hard selling for a product called 811 and I'm making sure that I invest enough brand in it so the brand is actually under the hood for me I can't tell the CFO that I'm doing it but I'm doing it basically make a fantastic creative and put a buy button on it put a buy buy buy no it has to appear to the CFO the exactly opposite so Samdham Dandbe Dharjige chaltai so that is the struggle any other perspective on on actually balancing brand love how are you with performance so as I as I meet a lot of advertisers I see more and more the shift towards branding brand love through user experience so if I go on your website and I find a website really good that inherently brings brand love more than a great ad if your product is really good if your car is really nice so I see a lot of marketers actually brightening their their scope and many times that's what really drives brand love and then you've got them into the funnel and then you use all the performance marketing to get them to convert so build other great online assets for brand love product experience could be online could be offline but a good product experience is the best brand love you can get I think that's what Vivek also said experience before advertising okay I want to get into two things video kind of planning on the measurement piece we don't have third party measurement for for digital and we can talk about video we can talk about the entire measurement at this point in time as marketers are you guys okay paying your online bills purely on the basis of what the media owners logs are even though when you know that if you went to a neutral third party like a moat or a you could get up to 10 to 15 percent variation from what these two fine gentlemen might give you are you okay with that no but you still do it actually you know I would pitch it the completely other way I think if the measurements on digital were stronger the investments will significantly rise so there's a trick that's getting missed in this intuitively we know it works but the questions we keep asking on effectiveness you know the some of the questions madaanee aata right we have to get the measurements right I I mean sitting today with the kind of read geo has if I can't measure reach of TV plus online it's a shame right I would be far more confident on the kind of investments I would want to make on digital and therefore the digital people are the ones who are suffering honestly in terms of broadcasters we get a unique way of measuring the confidence of the marketing community will rise many many folds look this is the real conversation guys money you've got to put your money where your mouth is we are talking about digital going to be overtaking TV in three years or less and then still we are okay paying 15-20% of today 20,000 crores tomorrow 40,000 crores 20% of that is ooh big numbers only ours is because frankly even what bark gives us we still struggle with television today right we are told that 90% of all TV screens in homes are HD TVs and then we are told that 10% of viewing is HD viewing and we are not able to wrap a hedge around that either so it's not just digital data that we struggle with we struggle with television data as well as much abhi kya karenge jeena hai ek saath ek hi theli ke chatte batte hain aa rahe waa anyway on the power so we met our bed with it but we are not happy with any of it we are not happy even to print data frankly we are not happy with any of it and we love great data everywhere third party is even better no doubt but I know he has made a compelling case for the opposite but we just love richer data so to spend more to the point that Sam made about India being like what 2% of global advertising and our great of growth is shit for the scale of economy we are I suspect if we had greater data we'd grow much faster we'd all invest more confidently that's at the heart of it in all mediums ok so with this setup I have to ask the question the two of you and it just so happens there's a star here and a google here now the entire a come in pass happened because google said you can measure ad but you can't measure content star said sorry star said I get confused sometimes so star said that it's no point if you have to measure ad you also have to measure content I can see a lot of frankly personally I see a lot of merit in measuring both ad and content but over this one impasse we actually have sacrificed the entire third party system would you like to on this forum try to move the peanut forward kiss and make up maybe I'm not the right person to take that decision at this point of time just 4 months into this but let me tell you it's not about google and star only right and globally that's a challenge honestly I think you raise the right point on bark be it on television or print and it's not only India I think overall measuring the right metrics for any of the platforms has been a big challenge so even if for example let's assume hypothetically both of us kiss and make up whatever right and the question is who measures tiktok who measures facebook who measures there are 32 ott players in India as of today I don't know tomorrow it might be 33 or 31 but as of now it is 32 so who gets the balance 30 even if these two come on platform one second even if you measure digital video for example is there a way to measure digital plus television combined because that is really going to help him isolated digital data even if it is 100% accurate it is not going to help him similarly isolated TV data is not helping him only when he can say okay there are 300 million Indians I want to reach out across TV plus digital how many did I reach out uniquely with a frequency of whatever 2 or 3 I don't mind whether it came on digital platform or TV platform or whatever it is and then I know whether the efficacy of my ad is working on it and I think that's the bigger problem to solve rather than just Google or stuff and that could be actually solved by one industry standard so Acom was exactly supposed to do that I'm assuming someone will have to take that initiative to fill I mean just on this point if you can on this forum sort of make a clarion call for having a TV plus kind of a product which is an industry product that is Acom by any other name and it so happens that the next session is being taken by Sunil Lula Bach so it gives him an amazing segue to make a pitch but currently even though there is no third party measurement which actually allows us to measure both TV and online all our agencies do have a certain AV measuring system so please as feedback I'd love to know what do you feel are they good do they work or are you feeling a little are you less than satisfied with them Prathisha there in the market you had now I think the TV plus digital planning really helps because at least it's giving your directional what's the incremental reach that you can get from digital level so you're satisfied with the way it's happening right now it's a good start but I don't think it's really in a place also the thing is the executions then end up happening from different people again digital the platform understanding exists with different people and also you're investing in multiple platforms in digital in that sense and that planning isn't coming from a single source while the initial very 20,000 feet planning number comes on TV plus digital final execution of the digital plan is not consolidated I would really love just like data is consolidated and we have an income I think for mark tears it will be brilliant if I can have both pre and post a val together then we're able to then say to sumit's point of yeah this is my ROI and how the mix works today the mix is not there okay sumit from from whatever your current system that you are using please tell us what is not working with it actually make me do a critique what is not working and what should improve yeah you know I have never I mean for the first time I have understood or appreciated the two words of random duplication I must say because everybody in some form or the other keeps telling me that so you know I mean to Pratishya's point I think it's better than having nothing right do we believe digital ads incremental reach to my TV plan of course I do right in the absence of any data this works but I hope we find something much more better than that and much more robust that we can do that's where I would be wonderful sir has built a very interesting tool with Vishal where you can actually take your TV reach curves you can take your YouTube reach curves and actually think about plan it's not third party data it's put in the public domain but I think they're doing some really interesting work for their partner thanks for the plug okay I think we have a last three minutes so we'll quickly round up by currently from the perspective that each one of you is coming so we've got two media owners and three marketers one one thing what would you start stop continue on TV versus digital in 2020 the lady I think we do that as entertainment marketers on TV the last mile bottom of the funnel which normally in any other category I myself didn't believe that the bottom of funnel really was big on TV but when you actually look at mixed modeling data and actual behavior that's happening like the Swiggy Gulab Jamani thing we are increasing a lot of last mile last few days tune in kind of a thing a lot more on TV even though it always happened the five-seconder equivalent on digital is the five-second bumper on TV I think I would bump that up a lot more while it bleeds my heart to say I'm not going to be doing a 45-seconder and you know I think that is what I would start a lot more on TV on digital I think the customized creative devits bloody tough I know that's the Koolaid on you can customize it for 60,000 people 60 different creatives but to actually have the insight for each cohort and actually to customize that creative is bloody difficult but I've seen that it works when you do customization anything you'll stop oh I really wouldn't stop anything on TV because that really not because I'm a broadcaster but all the metrics that we've seen and this is also a destination kind of channel right so TV works for us brilliantly so there's nothing that I would say will stop on TV on digital I think without metric let's just do something exciting and engagement led is something that I am brutal about with my team and saying if it's just really exciting and you have no proof don't do it got it now Addy short and snappy what will you start what will you stop what will you continue on digital yes I'm not here much on TV you can't do too much on TV so I'm not here to talk about advertising on TV but I would say touching the tip of the iceberg when we think about what we're doing with the data so I think that's a lot more that we can do I would say stop spraying and praying good one nothing I would say start thinking about reaching the billion screens because I think it's going to be a battle of screen rather than a digital versus television fight from a stop perspective I think we should stop thinking about what's happening in the economy and I agree with what we said I think the market is big the demand is there inherently our economy is still doing well I think there's for whatever reason I think just stop thinking about what's happening in the industry economy but I think we have a chance to really really go and blow for the next 5 years we've already talked about this for our budgeting so I'll say it we're going to stop thinking about producing one magnum opus commercial for the year but that doesn't mean short versus long we're looking at producing multiple pieces of video and then we're just worrying about what medium they will go on so that's the start for this year inevitably the stop was also stopping thinking about TV versus digital as a thing at all it's really it's video it's like the joke I like to make is with my folks is about how it's if you ask my 12 year old would he choose a cassette or a CD he'd look at me as if I was from Mars right so both these words are going to lose meaning like others have predicted and what is the third thing you want me to do continue continue making the fool of myself in the presence of much wiser people than myself all the time because it's so much fun see haski jange here sir just two quick ones I guess a lot of good stuff has been said probably start or do more of more analytics based decision making whether it's TV or digital I think that's something we need to do more of and honestly stop again whether it's TV or digital doing stuff that is not scaled up and can't make impact and just getting suckered into doing activities wonderful thanks guys you've been a great panel I hope you all enjoyed yourselves a big hand to them please