 And we're here to talk about storytelling in deep tech. And my name is Ted. I'm a partner at Iketi Ventures based in Stockholm. And with me here I have Tony. Hi. I'm Tony Högvist and as we speak right now I'm head of design for A&Rite. And just a few words about Iketi Ventures first. So Iketi Ventures is a pan-European VC. We're part of Iketi, which is a private equity group. So we've been around for seven years now and invested in 90 or so companies. Companies like Vault, which of course I have to bring up since we were in Finland, but also an emerging portfolio of deep tech companies like A&Rite, for instance. And Tony, who are you? I got a very nice presentation before here. I mean, actually it's fun, both you and me, we started actually as back in the days trying to figuring out what the web was. I think we were both competitors and partners when we were running different digital shops. That led me to actually joining Airbnb, I think it's now seven years ago or actually six years ago. I was there for like four and a half to five years. And when I came back from San Francisco, I joined A&Rite. And it's extremely interesting to see a brand, especially in the face of startup to scale up. I joined Airbnb when Airbnb went from that startup culture to actually becoming a global super brand and doing the scale-up journey. And I feel that I joined A&Rite at exactly the same time. So it's the most exciting times to be at two brands that I think definitely will change and make a legacy. And instead of you using words to explain what A&Rite is, we have a video. So I'll hit next here and hopefully that video plays. So what was that? What did we just see here? That was one of our pods. That was the flatbed pod that we just launched. We just came back from the U.S. and we just had a huge launch, actually, like moving over to the United States is like a given, especially if you are like a fry technology company. It's the epicenter of transport and fry. And also a lot of the innovation stuff that is happening in this space. It's the place that we just need to be and where we just have to go there. So we just came back from it. I think it was a couple of weeks ago. And what you're looking at now is the first pod in operation on a public road. And the pod you saw right now, it was actually like an evolvement of that into a more modular system. Actually starting to think about modularity in the transport system is a huge part. And it's not just hardware, it's also software, right? Yeah. This is the most important part that people don't think about, like disrupting a problem as big as transport is not about trucks. I mean, everyone, I mean, most people and most people thinking about this industry and you probably have met a few of them trying to raise money from you, they're approaching it from the hardware perspective. They look at the truck and they think the truck is the solution. The truck is just a tiny, tiny part of the whole equation. I think if you think about it from a completely fresh technology perspective and AI and intelligence in the system, you can break it down into the different load carriers or the different pallets, like how actually logistics looks today and how that actually can be first electrified, of course, but then automated in the long run. And to do all of that, you need to coordinate, you need UI, you need all the things to run it and to control it. And this is Saga. So that is actually, Saga is our operating system and mobility platform that's actually managing the whole system. So that was... And we're here to talk about storytelling in deep tech. And I think this is extra interesting because for some reason, in deep tech, there is a lot of discussion and almost like an allergy against telling stories. Because I think it has to do with not projecting or talking about doing something that you're not doing. You're talking about snake oil and vaporware and being a salesperson in a deep tech startup, in many cases, is kind of frowned upon. So there's like a thin line or a balance in between being someone like this and being someone like this. It's all about projecting your ambition of what you're trying to do into the future. And when you're projecting your ambition and talking about what you're doing in the future, of course, you're talking about things that do not exist yet. And before this, we had a discussion about narratives and about storytelling and centering the ambition of a company around something that is so simple to understand. It almost becomes banal. And we discussed JFK and the space race starting in the 60s and in the 70s. And this, I think, is a great example of a story that is so easy so everyone can understand it. It's taking a human being and putting that human being on the moon. And this narrative, of course, was a narrative about human beings, not a narrative about technical specs. And of course, this later gave birth to so much more than just the rockets and the space suits and so forth. I mean, mainly that's where our conversation, when we meet or having dinners or talk about the different companies you have invested in or the places I've been, this is one of the biggest mistakes I think people are doing, people are running after the tech. And I think the whole point is that the whole point is to actually paint that, like, the child is imaginative, like a point of view about the earth and humans and where we're going, and then actually believe in that so much. So all the other stuff just becomes add-on. I think it's the key thing. I think if you think about, we discussed, you visited me in San Francisco at the Airbnb, and Airbnb, like, if you break down the tech, it's a search engine. It's like it's the indexing of homes, alternative home accommodation, search engine. But I would never, I would never have took that job, I would never have both into the founder vision if it wasn't about something that was completely different. It was like this simple idea that humans can find the common ground, that actually the only way of finding that and acceptance is by traveling around the world and meeting people. And you can't do that in a closed environment, like the industry that Airbnb disrupted, because everything is commoditized. So you actually manage serendipity away from it, but when you opened up serendipity and you opened up the supply, actually belonging could flourish. And you can challenge that. And this is the other thing that I love with big ideas is that you can start talking about the best utility or the best search engine or how you're structuring your design above the fold and stuff. But in the end, the main thing that drives us and creates this, like the belief in the ambassadors, the followers, and you, when you're investing in companies and me as like sitting and working with the product and the design, is to actually have a founder who really have that big thought. And it's so important, it's just, it's the most important thing. We discussed how perfectly the space race followed the sort of narrative of the founder's journey or the monomous. And then we also discussed that a lot of startup journeys also follow this narrative. And when we discussed this, you mentioned that this was also a blueprint within Airbnb, for instance. And now, of course, of course, Enride. Yeah. And I think this is a lot of the stuff that we are seeing here is the new type of religion also, like the other metaphor you have here. And even if you look at the symbol of Airbnb and even Enride, like it's icons that is very minimalistic and actually are iconic. And also the followers, if you meet people who are following Airbnb as a brand, but also Enride as a brand, they really want this idea to succeed. And this is something that is fantastic. And I'm not even talking about the people you're hiring or their investors. Actually when you meet people and you're talking to people, they want your idea to succeed. And that's how that value, accumulating that value, is insane. Because that's why you have this insane valuation of companies. People don't measure things anymore in, like, rational numbers or, like, what type of IP. They measure it in that vision and how many people believe in it. And that is also, I mean, you, of course, need to deliver. We know many people have gone out there and promised but never delivered. But I think it's fascinating. And I think this is a really interesting topic because that's how you build those super brands that really people recognize and remembers. So this was one narrative, very easy to understand the space race. And right now, of course, there's a new narrative being formed, the narrative about the planet that we're on. And you mentioned that your perspective is that this is a narrative about man versus machine. We're debating about, I mean, this is the thing. I mean, you also had this point of sustainability. I think it's broader than just the environment. We're all coming from a place where we actually really do care. But it's so big, so it's really hard to grasp it. And you have so many different points of views. I mean, if you're raising the conversation about environmental and sustainability from an environmental perspective, like, you get a lot of strong opinions. And I think it's like, it's a given that we want to maintain the planet we're on. It's just a given. But it also comes down to the purpose. It's like what you just said, I think, is so philosophical. And we don't have any red wine here, so we should maybe not go there. But it's about like, what are we willing to sacrifice in this obsession about doing the technology revolution? Because we know it's coming like a train. And when it's coming to the digitalization, electrification, and the automatization of the world, what is the role for man? And I think that is an extremely important topic that I would love more people focusing on today. And I also know that that's one of the reasons why you felt interested in Android from the first place. So what we see here, I think, is the remote driving capabilities of Android. So in the world of autonomy, it's a lot about replacing human beings. But I think this is an interesting take. So what are we seeing here? So this is remote driving stations. And this is the whole idea about automatization shouldn't come with the price of drivers and humans. And I don't think anyone wants that future. I really think that, of course, it's some type of jobs that robots can do. But I also think when you're thinking about it in the big society of things, actually I think it is a step here where actually it's super important to think about the human aspect of it. And the interesting thing, I think, if you look at it from a remote driving perspective, is that then sustainability not only becomes electrification and environmental and CO2, it's actually also become like rights as jobs and employee rights and democratization of your own hours. So our role in it, yeah. I mean, many of the jobs that the industrial age created are not jobs that we are, as a society, proud of. Like, we wouldn't recommend them for our kids. So why would we recommend them for anyone else? And why do we use that as an excuse to say, like, I don't want that job, but maybe someone else where they are in the social spectrum, like, they should take this job. So I think back to the whole idea about, like, I want to drive that. You drove that. I remember you visited us in Gothenburg and you were driving around. And I want to do that. I don't necessarily want to be a truck driver. But even my son, he looks at that and he was like, like, he's a video gamer. I want to do that. So that is the... I love this picture, by the way. So where did you find this one? It's one of the first schematic drawings of how the pod works. You see the cameras and the light. I met our founding engineer, Tomas, in the audience. And maybe he's drawing it. I didn't even know where it's come from. But you have the remote driving station in the corner there. And to the left. The guy lying down very intuitively. It's not that complicated. You see? You don't need to go to the big schools to MIT to figuring out that. Here's another sketch. What is this? Oh, that's the first version. That's, yeah. I blame that on our founders. It's actually, it's... And but I think this is important. It's fun when you show this. Because one of the things that I can take credit for, but the founders and both Robert Linnae and Philip very early did, they made imagination real. And I know that because you and me talked a lot about Aynride, they went from an idea to a visualization of that imagination fast. Like, people were like, that can't be done. And then in front of them, it was. And then people said, like, you can't, like, you can fill it up with crisps or, like, maximum. Like, because you can't, and then they put it and they filled it up with wheel goods. And it's like, you can't drive it on public road. And they did. And it's like the same story over and over again. It's like these big narratives, when you're fulfilling that promise over and over again, that's when you're building that trust. And it's interesting you're talking about narratives because I think many people talked, I saw a speech before here where people talk about the value of brands. I think brand is just. The current, like brand is just the currency of trust. That's what it is. We don't think, we don't talk about brand as a separate thing. You can't just put a TV commercial on or an event and say, now we're building brand. Like brand is about having a big narrative, building towards that narrative, and over and over again, like fulfilling the promises and challenging all the people that have the right to be skeptical because we are skeptical. I, like, first time I heard about A&Ride, I was the most skeptical person. I like, I Googled everything. I was like, that's not true. And then when I started to dig deeper and deeper, I was like, this is actually happening. It's happening right now. I think what is kind of interesting looking at this pod, I think this is the new version of the pod that is rolling out right now. It's as if it's a very clear manifestation of the future. If I'm showing this picture to my dad, he instantly understands that this is the future of future trucking. I think we have another picture here from a Don Duck comic where the A&Ride pod is featured. And to the right here is from, I think it's a senator campaign in the US where it's featured. When something kind of becomes embedded into the fabric of culture, it's very easy to grasp just by seeing sort of the design of this vehicle. It's slightly different from an archetype. It feels like something that is like a robot, but it also feels like a truck. I talked with one of the first designers, Daniel, is his name that actually draw and made some of the first, especially this version you're seeing here, but also the conversation about last one. And we had a long conversation about it being actually like think about it as like a construction, like something that's reflecting in the surrounding. It's like architecture actually. It's a thing that moves around, that is like architecture that actually is like, it's very, even though it's sustainable, it still has that glossy feeling because it's so important that it's actually melting into the surrounding because it's part of the community. It's not just logistic and utility. And I think that's from day one, the sign has been such a driving force frame, and I think that's what the key is. What I think is interesting is, I mean, both of us worked with branding and marketing in the traditional world. And in the traditional world, where there's no real differentiation in between products, if you take cars before Tesla basically, every premium sedan was basically the same. The only thing that sort of differed was the exterior design and the brand. And because of that, you charge the brand and the product with a lot of different values. You're doing collaborations with artists and musicians and stuff like that. But within tech, where there's real differentiation between products, it's as if the marketing historically has been almost sort of completely opposite. You really want to belong to the category or to a category, because you don't want to be seen as something too new, because there's someone who wants to, has to buy the product on the other side of the table. That's, I think, where there are so clear trends, where every startup, like I know two years ago, looked like, branding looked like Stripe, but now everything looks like pitch. You have the 3D animated characters and the- I mean, it's the herd mentality. But the other thing is this, we discussed about, do actually any disrupter, has anyone in their own circle or category disrupted their own category? Like, do we know about anyone? Because most people, like most founders and most disruptive companies are actually coming from a completely different industry. Like, the founders of Airbnb were designers. Like, they had nothing to do with hospitality. So I think that just inventing your own categories, I can't come up with any other solution. But I think another perspective is that it's, if the product is differentiated, the branding and the wrapping and the design might be very much the same as something that already exists. I mean, firstly it was intercom. Everything looked at intercom with this sort of scribbly design and then Dropbox and then Stripe and now pitch. Do you think it's because they want, like, because brands want to fit in? I think it's because you're a bit afraid. I mean, the product in itself is different, but you kind of want the buyer to look at the product or hang it on a mental hook of something. Oh, yeah, yeah, you want the perceived idea to be, yeah, back to the archetype. Exists. But with Enry, I mean, they're clearly the founders and now you dared to make the product look different from the beginning. And from my perspective, as an investor looking from the outside in, in the beginning, I was a bit skeptical because it felt like, ah, cool rendering. But then when you realize that it's not just the rendering, it's actually real. That's kind of when the whole thing started happening. So how have you been thinking? I mean, this is a slide from your recent rebranding. No, but I think it's, I mean, one thing, one thing is maybe the consumer approach to things, that it's not the transport brand. It's like, if you think about transport and you think about shipping and carriers, you're ending up in a business to business area. And I know the founders has from day one been extremely focused on end consumers. And it sounds so weird, it's like, why would, like why wouldn't Enry focusing mainly on shippers? Of course, like, that's where a lot of the business is starting. But when you think about the big idea of actually disrupting like transport and delivery and shipping and all that stuff, it starts with end consumer. Like a lot of the behavior starts with end consumers. If you think about this, it looks very inspired by UI and also the simplicity and utility, even though it has a strong brand element and iconic. To give you one example, I was in a conversation with the founders the other day about checkouts. Like you can't even, today you can't, you can't, if you go to, like, Klorna Checkout or Shopify, you can't even, you can choose like diesel tomorrow or diesel in two weeks. Like you can't even choose, is no electric option. And people don't even know, people think that maybe, like most people who ask, they think shipping is fantastic. There's like, they order something, it's just showing up. They have no idea the impact and the footprint they're doing by buying four sneakers and sending three back. They have no idea because at the user layer, that behavior and that, to make that type of decision as a consumer and demand stuff as a consumer, we as brand needs to inform, but we haven't. We don't inform, we hide, because we don't want them to know. We want them to believe that they're doing a good act by recycling whatever, by shipping it to another country. But that's not how it is. So I think it starts by having that consumer approach to it. But actually like everything is melting together. You can't have a big idea and think about yourself as a business to business brand. Yeah, I think it starts there and I think that's been the philosophy when we design everything. Even if you're gonna make a food order or you're gonna make an extremely complex logistic order, why can't the UI, like and the experience and the messaging and the language you're using be as simple? Why? Like why can't you best borrow from the best? Like consumer brands, even though you are a business to business brand. So consumer mindset, even if you're a business to business. We have one minute left. Should we try to summarize this somehow? How should one think when crafting stories for deep tech companies or things that does not exist yet? You're asking me? You're asking, I'm asking you or should I? You have, I mean you have a lot of answers to this as well. No, but from my perspective, we actually have, let's do this super quickly. We have four tips or four kind of leave behind. So I think the first one here is, let's see if I can get it here. So dare to tell a story. So dare to dramatize the ambition. Sort of really project the future out there. And that's what I think you guys have done with the bold design of the actual product. And then keeping it very simple without losing the mystery. And in a lot of cases when it's too simple, it becomes bland. Like you're providing transport solutions who cares. Third one, make it visual. So it's like I'm a smart five-year-old. This is a... Mostly important. This is the most important thing. Don't underestimate visualization of ideas. And the first one, what I also like about you, when you just look at the pod, it's like, oh, it's hardware. But there's also, it's like a software chapter two to it. So that's an attempt at least. Nice summary, Ted. So with that, there is a blinking circle saying we have zero seconds left to this talk. So I guess that's a cue for us to stand up and leave the stage. So big thank you. Thank you.