 Hello everyone and welcome to Tomorrow Space, orbit 12.31. I'm going to be your host today, I'm Jared Head. So not just news but also the live show you have on Saturdays or whenever you're watching on demand. Today's episode is going to be particularly interesting because we have someone that you may actually know, not related to space but is now involved in space, which is Hank Rogers, the founder of the International Moon Base Alliance and on the move, as it is this morning as well. So Hank, for our viewers who may not be familiar with the International Moon Base Alliance, what exactly is the International Moon Base Alliance? So the International Moon Base Alliance is a grouping of space agencies, space companies and space institutions that are all looking to build a moon base on the moon. Rather than us working in little silos or having governments competing against governments, I believe that we should all be working together. And that way, for example, like an international airport, we can all have access and we can all go to the moon and spend time on the moon without having to have a passport or worry if the pressure is different or the oxygen level is different or all of that. That should all be standardized. And so I'm looking to get everybody in the room with the Alliance and let's figure this thing out once and for all. So there had to be a way for the Moon Base Alliance to start up sort of what was that catalyst that planted that idea with you and moving forward with it? Well, I have talked to a lot of different people about what they want to do and I've been going to all these space conferences and there's lots and lots of people saying lots and lots of different things and I'm not the one to judge who's right or wrong. I just like to get everybody on the same page so that we can all go through the same airlock. No matter what airport you go to, you with your 747 or whatever it is, there's always going to be something which attaches to your plane where everybody can get on and off the plane and that's been standardized. And so that's why planes can go all over the world. They can land. They have the same, they use the same language. I mean, it's all standardized and that's what we need to do on the moon, on our journey to the moon. So the catalyst was just attending all these conferences and hearing so many different opinions about how things should be done and then hearing from our government that we're going to do it alone, which doesn't make any sense. So where did your personal interest in space come from? Because you didn't start out sort of looking at space as a thing. Well, it depends how far back you go. You know, I used to find my mom when I was a kid, she wanted to watch Doctoria and I wanted to watch Star Trek and they overlapped by half hour. So I had to beg, you know, so so you could say that my my interest in space goes way back to gosh, when you know, like the late 60s, but it got it kind of crescendoed recently when I came up with my missions in life. I kind of retired from business and had a heart attack. And at the end of that heart attack, I said, no, I'm not going or during that heart attack that no, I'm not going. I still have stuff to do and I found my missions in life. Mission number three is to make a backup of life by going to other planets. And with the International Moon Base Alliance, who specifically who do you have working within that Alliance? Well, I'm actively working with NASA and ESA. I have talked to JAXA, the Depend Space Agency. I've talked to SpaceX and Blue Origin. In fact, I'm in Seattle, one of my meetings is with Blue Origin to figure out, you know, how we're going to cooperate there. Yeah, I'm going to just get out of the car here. Sure, yeah, we'll come along. So here we are in Seattle. Yeah, so I'm actually one of the reasons I'm in Seattle is to meet with Blue Origin about their plans for Moon Base, because, you know, again, you know, NASA and Blue Origin and SpaceX aren't exactly on the same page on all of this. And the way I look at it is you've got all these billionaires building airplanes and nobody's building airports, duh. Yeah, so someone needs to get started on this. Yeah, and we actually do have a question from our chat room that's sort of asking about standardization with it. Did you talk about it using as like a Moon Base as the airport with it? So John Bensted in our YouTube chat room is asking, is the International Moon Base Alliance looking to standardize not just a Moon Base, but general space travel as well? You know, if that's a side effect, I don't have a problem with that. You know, but building an international airport and airplanes are two different things. If you look at if you look at all the kinds of planes that exist, you know, from amateur to jets to whatever, it's all over the place and people are trying all kinds of things and I don't want to stifle that kind of innovation. But if we're going to go and have an airport where we are talking about landing lots and lots of people safely over and over and over again, then we do have to standardize. And do you feel like having that airport, so that Moon Base on the Moon is important to making commercial companies want to go there? Yeah, absolutely. I think that that is absolutely something that's going to happen. You know, there are, you know, it's it's it's silly to think that we aren't going to find things on the Moon that aren't as exciting as what we found on the quote unquote New World when we've sailed from Europe. I mean, just think of the of the economic explosion that that happened in Europe when we actually discovered and then colonized the New World, the Moon is the next New World. And CFA in our IRC chat room actually sort of has a question that's running with that economic development that you're talking about, which is do you think that the main driver for putting a base on the Moon will be research or science or do you think there's an economic argument or maybe is there is there a dual purpose with it? It's in the beginning of science, but when we start discovering unobtainium or whatever it is that we discover on the Moon, it's definitely going to be commercial, you know, commercial outweighs scientific interest by, I don't know, 100 to one or 1000 to one, eventually, not in the not in the get go because nobody knows what's there. We first have to explore and once we explore, then we can actually I'm going to say bad word, but exploit what's there. Yeah. And with the Moon Base Alliance, you're working with both government agencies and commercial companies. And what are what are some of the big differences between working with, say, like NASA and JAXA with your with your Moon Base Alliance, then say SpaceX and Blue Origin? SpaceX and Blue Origin are sort of come from a different world. The different world is the world of software development. I come from the world of software development. You build prototypes, you you iterate and you get things done. Space agencies, you generally come from a, we don't want to make any mistakes. And they're like, how can you like start from not making any mistakes? You have to make mistakes that otherwise you're not going to learn. And so if you come from this like, I'm so scared to make a mistake and over engineer everything, it becomes so expensive. It becomes unaffordable. And so all of space exploration up till now has been unaffordable. And the companies are going to make it affordable. And Ruben in our YouTube chat room is asking specifically about what has the International Moon Base Alliance achieved so far? So what have you all done towards moving to that that mission in your life? I can't say that we've accomplished a whole lot. We've had a conference. We've gathered a bunch of smart people in the room and gotten the work started in terms of thinking about it. And we have, we actually have a, I wouldn't say a moon base prototype. We have a habitat on the Big Island of Hawaii where we practice, we used to practice living on Mars. And now we've flipped and we're practicing living on the moon. So we're actually actively learning about living on the moon by practicing doing it. And it's in an analog. It's not actually the real deal, of course, but you got to start somewhere. And we have crews coming from Japan, from the mainland, from universities like ASU, from the European Space Agency, and they all take turns. And they do what the astronauts do on the space station, but they do it in our habitat, in our analog. So with that habitat, is that the high seas habitat that's on the Big Island? Yes, it is. And with that there, what are some of the really big details that you're still studying with that? What are some of the big things that are those questions you're looking to answer there? Well, you know, the basic little protocols, hold on just a second. Yeah, go for it. Just a moment, everybody. Hank is out and about right now. I don't think we've ever done an out and about interview, so this is definitely very interesting. And very cool. Yeah. Are you back in the tank? Oh no, don't worry. I'm back. This is very entertaining. I was just saying to our audience, we've never had like a roving interview happen before. A roving interview. This is great. So I guess just to kind of repeat the question, with the high seas mission simulations that you're doing there, what are some of the big questions that you're trying to answer? You know, how do international, well, space agencies and companies and universities, how do they work together? Because we have crews that are going to be mixed between all of them. And we're going to have crews that like one crew follows another and continues the science or the research, whatever it is. And so it's how do you do that handover? And then we're trying to figure out what's the communication? What does the base, what does ground control need to see? And how can we all do all of this within a reasonable amount of money? These are all things that we don't know. So by playing in a prototype, we actually learn a lot about the actual, what we want to build rather than sit in a room and like have a bunch of smart guys sit around the table and try to figure it out. Do it, make your mistakes here on earth in an analog and then then build a real, this is the thing that we're going to do. We are going to build an actual moon base, the exact thing that we're going to build on the moon, we're going to build it on earth. And so when we build it on earth, then we learn how to do all the robotics and the AI that is going to be needed to go and build that thing on the moon. Then we send the robots to the moon. Yeah, and what's interesting is that in our chat room, Hans Verder-Rier is actually asking, you know, is IMBA going to talk to Boston Dynamics? Because, you know, we're going to need robots to build stuff. Are you also looking at other companies like the boring company for underground work? I would imagine there's a lot involved in that. Yeah, this is, you know, again, you know, it's not one company that built the airport, built an international airport. There's lots of companies that build stuff that go into that and those parts improve, but they all go through vetting. They all go through some kind of standardization. You know, even the language, the pilot speak, that went through a standardization. You know, that was a hard thing and people died until they standardized it and they figured out, hey, you know, we've got to all use English and we've got to do this, that and the other thing. And so as a result, air travel is probably the safest way to move from place to place now. Yeah, in our YouTube chat room, Rell Santos has a question that I'm pretty interested in, which is asking, is it different to live on Mars than it is on the moon? I would imagine, yes. So what are some of the simulation differences that you have to work with? So the basic simulation difference that we do is for a mission to Mars, it takes eight months to go, six months to wait while the Earth comes around and eight months to come back. So we're talking about a 22-month minimum mission. And how do you keep people from killing each other or going bonkers, you know, when they're in a small space for that long? That is the question for Mars. And by the way, communication, the closest Mars gets is four minutes, four light minutes away. The longest is 24 light minutes. So basically when we do the Mars simulation, we simulate, we average it out and say, okay, it's a 20-minute delay each way for communication. But if you go to the moon, that's only three seconds. And it only takes three days by 50-year-old technology. So basically people can go for much shorter trips. So basically what I'm saying is that the missions themselves are different in character. On a Mars mission, you can't have people showing up in the middle of a mission. But in a moon mission, you can because the moon doesn't get farther or closer. So that Mars mission can only, by the way, be launched once every two years. Because you don't want to launch a mission to Mars when Mars is on the other side of the sun. You've got to wait till it comes close. So, you know, resupply, it has a heartbeat of something around two years. You know, resupply to the moon is like constant. And you kind of touched on some of the human factors involved with it. Is there more than just the time delay and other of those factors that you simulate at your limits? Of course. Of course. You know, you've got one third gravity, one sixth gravity. Those things are quite different. The material of the moon has never been subject to, for example, what is it called? What is it called when iron becomes iron oxide? Oxidization. There you go. So there's no oxidized hit. Nothing gets oxidized on the moon. And so the materials that we find on the moon are going to be a lot more pure than the materials we find on Mars. So the material on Mars has oxidized, even though there's very little oxygen. It still has oxidized because it's had billions of years to do so. And it's, how can I say? Yes, so the material is different. And there's an atmosphere. You know, you can actually use the atmosphere to break when you're approaching Mars. There's no atmosphere on the moon at all. You know, those are all differences. And I think we find that there'll be more differences as we actually go and spend time in those places. I think the communication just being closer to home is going to be a big deal. Yeah, and I think some of the analogs that have happened here on Earth, like you look at biosphere and some of the other ones have found that psychologically you need to almost have like the most rock solid people in order to make sure that these kind of long duration missions actually work out correctly. And yeah, so definitely, definitely helps to have that as well there. So Lisa Stojanowski in our chat room is asking about your other companies, because it's not just the International Moon Base Alliance that you have that lines up. So kind of what are your other companies and how do they fit into your vision for space exploration? So other companies, oh my gosh, mission number one is to fix this planet. So I'm working to end the use of carbon-based fuel. And renewables or intermittent renewables like wind and solar have been in the way, I mean have been a problem because they are not 24-7. Electric company called that Baseload. And so what I've done is started an energy storage company to try to fix that problem so that those intermittent problems can become, how can I say, baseload. But the connection between mission number one and mission number three is if we learn how to, if we build a colony on the moon, by the way, no colony in history has ever existed that wasn't self-sufficient. In other words, if you wait for supplies to come from home, eventually you die. You have to be able to grow your own food, find your own water and all of that. And so that's what we're going to have to do on the moon and Mars. If we learn how to live sustainably on the moon, that technology will help us to live sustainably here because there will be no garbage on the moon at a million dollars a kilo. Say we get like really efficient, it's only a hundred thousand dollars a kilo or even ten thousand dollars a kilo. You wouldn't be sending up any garbage, nothing that becomes garbage. And being on the moon and developing self-sufficiency, what does that look like? Are you going to purely use everything that's on the moon and then just continuously reuse those resources? Because I imagine you've got to bring stuff with you first. Yeah, you're going to have to bring some organic material. You've got to start somewhere because there's probably not any no organic material on the moon. But the amount of organic material that we have here on Earth is kind of finite. We recycle it and recycle it. When we die, we become some other life form. And so all that organic material gets recycled over and over and over again. It's not like lots of new organic materials being created somewhere. Yes, life does break down inorganic stuff into organic stuff. And that's what's going to happen on the moon as well. So I would say we're going to have to grow lots and lots of vegetables because it's very inefficient to try to grow meat even here. And we're going to have to use everything like reuse. There's not going to be any human waste or whatever. That's all part of the nothing will be lost. Nothing will be thrown out. And are there any lessons from Apollo that you still use today looking at the moon-based alliance? Because I know a lot of people know that the astronauts trained in Utah and Arizona and the Mojave Desert in California, but they also went to the big island of Hawaii. Yes, they trained in Hawaii as well. And a lot of people don't know that. So is there stuff that you've learned from them? So there's something here. The Earth has plate tectonics. And basically what plate tectonics has done is sorted the rock of Earth into two types of rock. Oceanic rock, which doesn't last more than a couple of hundred million years because it gets subducted. And continental rock, which is the lighter rock that has floated to the top in the billions of years of plate tectonics. And so Earth has all these different rocks that have been sorted. The moon and Mars have never had plate tectonics. So they only have oceanic rock. Therefore, the rock of Hawaii and the rock of the moon are like 96% the same chemically. You know, the moon stuff is in the oxidized and ours has and so on. But still, learning how to work with the lava rock of the big island is going to be the starting point for learning how to work with the material on the moon and Mars, by the way. They're both similar. And do you do that at your analog that you have at the base? I have another organization. I'm the chairman of, it's called Pisces, the Pacific International Space Center for Exploration Systems. And NASA has basically asked us to learn how to make lunar concrete, if you will. It's the dust of the lava rock sintered at a certain temperature so that it turns into something like concrete with no binder. You know, again, at a million dollars a kilo, you're not sending concrete to the moon. And John Bensted in our YouTube chat room is asking, you know, could there be carbonaceous rocks on the moon for meteor impacts and could those be used for making organic soil to grow plants in? You know, so there's an interesting thing. So there's a period in our solar system when planets were bombarded by giant asteroids. And you can see the evidence of this period on the moon. You don't find it on Earth because we've had erosion and we've had plate tectonic and all that. So what are the minerals that you find in the asteroid? You could go to the asteroid and try to find out, or you can go to the moon and find out because 3.5 billion whatever years ago, a bunch of them landed on the moon and they're still there. They're all still there. So it's basically whatever you can find in an asteroid, you're eventually going to find on the moon. It may be in the form of dust, but we don't have technologies to mine that stuff and concentrate into whatever we want. And to talk a little bit about, you know, mining on the moon and finding those resources on the moon. In our YouTube chat room, Colton45 has something that of course is on everybody's mind, which is how useful is water in general for everything from hydration, maybe some form of dust control because I think there's a lot to be said about making sure that you try not to ingest as much of that lunar regolith as you can. Also maybe making fuel for hydrogen-based engines or maybe other things with water that we at present don't think about that we could use when we're on the moon. Well, how about a basic use for water that we have on this planet which is to protect us against solar radiation or cosmic rays? At any spot, even if you're in a desert, you're still got a couple of miles of water vapor on top of you, which doesn't exist on the moon. So I would say one of the easiest, simplest uses for water is that shielding to protect us from radiation. I think that we're going to be living underground. This is just my personal opinion. People can disagree with me. It's fine. But to build something on the surface, I think it's going to be much more difficult than building something underground. And so the whole concept of mining, if you look at the way mining works, for example, in Australia, they're mining for opal. And basically they go down and then they create these spaces where they're mining and looking for opal. And then they live in those spaces. So mining and, how can I say, our living spaces are going to be connected on the moon. So once we start looking for stuff and finding it, then we'll be creating spaces where we can live. And this mining should happen underground anyway. I think that's a smarter way to go. We don't want to trash the place. We don't want to create giant scars like we do on Earth. Scars on Earth can be, how can I say, covered by life. But the moon, basically the footprints of the people that were there 50 years ago are still there. So whatever we do will leave a scar or leave its mark. And we want to be as careful as possible to preserve as much of the moon as possible for future generations. So would you say to anyone who wants to participate sort of in lunar exploration or a future lunar economy, is mining something that they should really look at? Because if I remember correctly, there actually is a college for mining here in the United States and they have just started courses basically for mining off of the Earth. Yes, absolutely. I mean, that's the obvious first business. But I mean, what can we do with a vacuum? You know, we go to a huge expense to achieve vacuum here. And vacuum is normal on the moon. So what can you do? Industries that need vacuum for anything, moon is great. It's already there. It's hard not to have a vacuum as a matter of fact. So there are conditions for doing things on the moon, one-sixth gravity. I mean, when I get really old and I'm having a tough time, I need a wheelchair on this planet. I'll be able to walk on the moon. Yeah. And I'll have a 900-yard drive or whatever it is. Oh, yeah. Insane. I'll finally be able to go. That'd be so much fun. I can imagine literally like a home run on the moon is like a mile long. That's going to be a really big baseball thing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I think there's going to be lots of fun things that we do on the moon. And just imagine if we had some trampolines and we had some, I don't know, we could move around like gibbons or price tags. Yeah. So I mean, there's whole new kinds of sports that can be invented that take advantage of one-sixth gravity. Yeah. And why not just have the Olympics on the earth? You could also have like a lunar Olympics as well. A lunar Olympics. Yeah. I've been thinking about lunar sports. What the hell does table tennis look like? Or squash or whatever? They're going to be very different. Just imagine like this massive table tennis, this huge thing. Oh my gosh. No, no, no. It's not, it's not, that's not even the issue. The issue is that like when you jump, like say you go to do a dunk in basketball, you're going to stay up like, I don't know, how much longer you're going to float. You could like start at one end of the court and then jump to the other end of the court and dunk. That would be amazing. Stuff like that. So I really want to have the NBA All Star dunk contest now on the moon. So that would be fantastic. I'm too excited. Now you've got me extra excited about it, Hank. And one of the things that you actually just basically straight up answered from our chat room was that, where are we going to live on surface or underground? So underground is where you're advocating with, is it something that we are going to have to artificially generate? Like we're going to have to tunnel out our own things. Or with these lava tubes and other things, do you think that's a much better way to go about it? No, we don't live in caves anymore. And basically we build stuff where the resources are. So where we have the water or whatever that we're mining or where we get our power sources, whatever, that is where we're going to live. We're not going to search for some place and then have to go walk miles or drive miles to get to where we live. It doesn't make any sense. It's just not how things happen on earth. It's much easier. You're going to have to engineer stuff anyway. If you're in a lava, do you know how we know about lava tubes is this thing called a skylight? What is a skylight? A skylight is a bit of the lava tube which collapsed. Why would you want to go in there and build something in a structure that collapsed or part of it collapsed? And then down there, you know, like it's a very uneven space. I've been in lava tubes here. It's like spelunking in a cave. It's really hard stuff. And then to think about building something, you know, in other words, you can't build the same thing in two different places because your shape of your lava tube is going to be completely different. So the answer is that if we got robots and dig like termites and make spaces like termite, what's under a termite mound, we can create any space we want. And then all we have to do is create, hollow it out and then create a mesh and then 3D print regolith onto it. And then now you've got a place to live or to build and to do whatever. Yeah, and I definitely can't help but agree. I've got in some lava tubes in our cinder cone volcanoes we have here in the Mojave Desert and not really like fun to get into them. And I don't know if I'd want to live in them either. So it would be a little difficult. I just think it's just really difficult engineering to build something in a lava tube. They talk about inflatable, but again, you have to then take the inflatable from Earth and then you have to like somehow get it into the lava tube and then you have to inflate it. It's like, oh my God, that's so hard. It's so much easier to tunnel and then live in those tunnels or whatever. Yeah, and also the basaltic rock that you often find in lava tubes is not fun to contend with either. That's just building material. It's neither here nor there. You're going to have to deal with it on the surface or underground. It's all the same. I learned two very valuable lessons when I did my lava tube stuff for my geology courses, which is don't wear shorts when you go into a lava tube. And the a-a-lava is called that because it hurts when it scrapes on you. Yes, we have to constantly replace our suits because they get torn up. Okay, so the a-a and the hoi-hoi that we have on Earth is probably going to be different on the moon because the atmospheric conditions are different. So I wouldn't expect that to be the same, but still lava tubes are just not going to be... It's going to take a long time. You're going to have to go and figure out what the lava tube is and figure out the strength. You have to engineer building something in a lava tube. You might as well engineer something underground where you know what is the density of the rock here and then figure out how much of it you need above you to protect against radiation and so on and so forth. Again, you want to build something near where your resources are. You don't want to have to go miles and miles and miles to wherever your resources are. I mean, that's just not the way things work, not here. You build a spaceport and then that's where you want to build all your infrastructure, not like in different places. And to talk a little bit about space suits, what are some of the requirements that you're going to have to contend with for space suits on the moon? Because the lunar regulates is tough. It's not so much the lunar regulates which is created by bombardment by micro meteorites that have turned them into little shards. So this stuff, you don't want to breathe this stuff. But this is all us going and living on the surface or spending time on the surface, which I think is going to be a fraction of the time that we spend on the moon. Most of our time is going to be inside, not outside. And so whatever we go through to protect ourselves from, I don't know, deep sea diving or whatever it is, we have to go through those same steps. And yes, of course, it's like going into a clean room. You come from outside, you don't have to be cleaned before you enter your space because you really don't want that dust in the base itself. So we'll figure that out. It's not, well, maybe it is rocket science, but it's not rocket science. It's just, we got to make a clean room. The astronauts had to climb in their suits from the outside to the inside of the capsule. And so they were dirty. Yes. They were dirty with the dust. And then whatever the dirt came from the dust, came from the suit, they ended up breathing that stuff. Now, if you just do that for a couple of days, not a problem, maybe. But if you do that regularly, then it's going to be very difficult. Yeah. And to kind of talk a little bit about how this all sort of gets done and some of the little like fine points of it. Steel tugboat in our YouTube chat room is asking, has there been any talk about space laws? Because that's obviously something that we're going to have to contend with. I know it's kind of like everybody's going to have to deal with it. I know. My mind, my eyes glazed over. I've been in this conversation about space law and it's like a bunch of guys on Earth are going to decide what the space laws are going to be on the moon or wherever. No, once you get out there, we're going to say like, screw you guys. We're not going to listen to you. Why should we? Are you, what are you going to do? Send us the space police and arrest somebody for breaking one of your space laws? It's just so ridiculous to think that, you know, we should be sitting here thinking about space law. When we get there, we will figure this out. I mean, it's just the way it is. Gotcha. So it's kind of one of those things like, we're just going to go do it and then afterwards when it comes up, we'll just, we'll figure it out. Yeah. I mean, like some of us are going to follow the rules and then others of us are not going to follow the rules. It's going to be the Wild West for the foreseeable future. Why should anybody follow the laws that were written by some guy at, I don't know, at the United Nations? And in our chat room too, CFIT is asking, what is the most realistic timeline for your first mission to the surface of the moon? So what's that, what's that sort of look like? So SpaceX told me that they could get me a payload to the moon middle of the next decade. I mean, serious payload. We're talking about, we're talking about like 150 tons to the moon by the middle of the next decade. Okay. They're going to be laid by a couple of years. Everybody knows that. That's fine. So let's say, let's say later part, later part of the next century, I'm sorry, the next decade, we get to send a massive number of robots to the moon who are actually going to dig into the ground and build a moon base. How long does it take them to do that? A year? Two years? I'm kind of thinking that manned missions or occupation of a moon base will happen somewhere towards the end of the next decade. Gotcha. So the end of the 2020s around that area. Yeah. All right. I'm on the moon by 2030. Not me, but somebody like me. Younger, a younger me. And Sarge Enzyme in our YouTube channel is asking, how do we as ordinary people get involved with the International Moon Base Alliance and what could we do when we get involved? You know, we're at the very beginning of this. I frankly speaking have no idea. Follow your passion. If you have a passion to do something about space, go do it. And then you'll be part of it. I mean, it's kind of like that. You can decide that you want to be an astronaut. Not many of us actually get to be astronauts. So what can you do? I mean, there's all kinds of science. Science is necessary for surviving on the moon. I mean, material science, robotics, AI, food production, everything to do with sustainability. All those things need to be part of it. So which direction are you going to come from? And the answer is all of them. And for the future of the International Moon Base Alliance, are you guys looking at sort of being like this amalgamation of knowledge that people can come to and kind of work with? Do you want to be spearheading the push to get people to the moon? Or do you kind of want to do both at the same time? Or is there something else you're looking at? I'm just trying to be a catalyst for the same way of doing this. And the same way of doing this is cooperation. That's the same way of doing it. And that's, you know, again, my model is an international airport. When you go to an international airport, pretty much everything that we, you know, your expectations, like nobody's going to steal your purse. Nobody's going to come up to you with a gun and try to shoot you. I mean, this is all kind of worked out. And it's worked out in every country. And then irrelevant to the system of government that's around that country, the international airport is all kind of regular or the same or similar. And so that's the way moon bases need to be. They need to be similar so that eventually you can, you know, like, imagine having two main moon bases next to each other from different countries and they have a different atmosphere. They can never connect. How stupid is that? That can't be that way. They have to decide, let's all settle on a metric system. Let's all decide on 20% oxygen. Let's all decide, like, what's the pressure going to be? Is it going to be half earth atmosphere or whatever it is? You know, these things should be standardized. Otherwise, there can be such a pain in the ass later on. So if folks would like to learn more about the International Moon Base Alliance, where can they go to do that? We have the beginnings of a website, but we're still in the organizational phase. So we show up at space conferences. We'll be at the IAC and we'll be at New World in Austin. So look for us there. What can I say? It's still early stage. We're at the very beginning of this thing. And I'm not smart enough to know all the answers. Hank, just about you, if people would like to know more about you, because in researching for this, you are a fascinating fellow, where can people go to get more on you? We're working on a website because if you go to Wikipedia, there's all kinds of people adding information or misinformation. I've done interviews like this, lots of them, and so you can find me on YouTube or just Google me for Christ's sake. All right. That sounds like great advice. Hank Rogers of the International Moon Base Alliance, a really fascinating discussion today, and can't wait to see what the future of being on the moon is going to be like and what will be enabled by the work that you are all getting ready to do. So it should be pretty interesting to say the least. Definitely. And of course, we love to bring these kinds of interviews to you folks here at tomorrow, and our citizens of tomorrow are the ones who help make this possible. We can't do this without you. We also can't do Space News without you. We basically can't do our mission, which is to get people excited about space without your help. So if you'd like to help us out financially, you can head on over to patreon.com slash tmro or youtube.com slash tmro slash join. And we really like YouTube because you can give as little as a dollar per month on there. So if you get something out of this, we're more than happy for you to give something back to us. 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