 Thanks so much for joining us for another episode of Tech Show But Friendly. I'm your host Anton and this is the podcast of Hardware Sugar and we are very happy today to have our second guest on the show but not a stranger to the viewers of our channel, Katima Gaming from Thailand. He was actually in our video on, we did a video with fellow Southeast Asian tech YouTubers and Katima proudly represented Thailand. It was a great pleasure to talk to him and we brought him back because I've sort of in the background, I've become kind of interested in how Filipinos are perceived online, like our stereotype images that were super toxic and Katima has a very interesting insight on that because he is one of the moderators of a very large Facebook gaming group, a local Philippine gaming group and he also has his own YouTube channel which we'll link into the description below but with that all of that said, welcome again. Hello to Katima Gaming. Thanks so much again for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. I mean like we had so much fun doing our first interview right? I mean like we were, we could have gone forever. It was very good. I remember. I really enjoyed that one. I nearly cracked the beer there. And I mentioned to Katima offline. I think I mentioned it online also that this English is really, it's flawless. It sounds like American English and then he's surprised by saying he learned it in the Philippines. Yeah, from the Philippines, Cilliman University. I learned English and Visaya, Filipino there. Makasabot at makasultisad si Katima o Visaya. A little bit. I know, I'm Filipino. I can get by. So why don't you tell our audience how, I mean because you're based in Thailand, you are Thai. How did you end up being a moderator of PC Gaming Philippines? Congratulations, how many followers? Over 69 now. We just hit 70. We hit 70,000 members already. I can't say nice now. When you hit 69, I was like nice. Yeah, it's been quite a road trip because I became a gamer in the Philippines. Basically, I moved there. Wala pang K-12. So when they said, I put it back to high school. Yeah, so I went straight to the Philippines, took only four years for high school, went straight to college. But the gaming culture there was just so amazing, the comp shops. They were already doing CSGO, Rogue Spear, the Rainbow Six one, Starcraft. So the comp culture. Yeah. And that's how I became a gamer. And that's how I love gaming with Filipinos most of the time because they're just so animated. When they say noise, there's just so much fun. And we'll get into the difference between Thai gamers and Filipino gamers later. But yeah, that's why I'm very active in the forums. I'm very active in video game forums. And for some reason, I really liked our current forum right now, our current group in Facebook called PC Gaming Philippines, which we will change to PC Gamers Guild. Yes. Is that the majority vote? Yeah, that's the majority vote. We voted already when we turned 70,000. So shout out to all our guild members at the end of this month. Well, we currently have a logo and banner competition ongoing. So at the end of the month, when that's finished, we've got prizes, we have everything go ongoing, and then we'll officially change it. But yeah, I realize that there were more decent people in this group compared to the other Latino group. You are a member of different PC-related Pinoy groups. Yeah, a lot of PC-related discord included. And I'm not the type who likes to subscribe to, like, you know how it is with Facebook, you just subscribe to 100. Yeah, like, like, like, like, yeah. Let the algorithm do its job. I nitpick because I want to really participate. Curate it. And then I, yeah, yeah, curate it, correct. And I start leaving these other groups that became either two marketing, too many buying and selling, and too many agendas, especially politically. And yeah, I ended up with this group, one group. I'm only now a member of just one PC group that I actively participated. And that is the PC gaming Philippines or PC gamers guild Philippines today. And eventually I became admin after three years. Just like a short summary of that story. So you started out as a regular member, you were posting regularly, commenting, and then how did you, how did the existing admins, you know, approach you and ask you to join them? Yeah, well, there was the NVIDIA, I think this was last year, did an event where they were doing a giveaway and the admins were just too busy handling it. So as a member, I said, like, you know what, okay, I have some free time. I stepped up and then tried to make the event happen. Everyone gots their prizes and video was very happy. So the guys thought, like, you know what, that was pretty cool of me. And then just decided to let me be admin. As long as like, because they saw that I kind of kept the cool head and just being a nice guy overall and genuine. That's like a baptism by fire because you volunteered and it's like, oh, giveaway, you know how Pinoy's are about giveaways, right? It's like, oh, nasa na yung, ano, oh, but ang di ako na nalog para ganoon, no. But mo diliit yung pose ko. Yeah, exactly. Right, man, di ba? So that's pretty cool. So it was really something you took on your own voluntarily and then you did such a good job. And again, I mean, joking aside, that really was a baptism by fire because, you know, giveaways can become pretty hairy. Very violent. Hindi pipitugin, very violent. It's not like, it's not a pipitugin giveaway. I mean, it's not like small fry giveaway. It's like, you know, NVIDIA GPUs, right? I mean, those are in demand. Thousands of pesos on steam wallet and GPUs and prizes too. So yeah, it was serious. But that's a cool thing. I think that's the reason why I really stayed with that group. Timing lang ng madaming mabait doon na groupo. Daming calm people compared. Compared to the other groups. You know, I'm a member. I don't remember this giveaway. I'm trying to think about it back in my mind. Last year. Yeah, no, I'm a member of that. I mean, like, I've been a member, like, not the month way back, but I think, like, I was a bit of a member before you were admin because I remember seeing your name and saying, oh, there's Kativan. He's an admin now. So I think, but I don't remember that giveaway. It's like, where was I? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was I shadow banned? Like what? I want to complain to the admins. What's going on? We can't have that hardware sugar getting for. Ano na hiya re? Ano na hiya re? I'm flipping interest because they are selling GPUs. Yeah. No, I want to win steam or whatever. But let's focus on that event. And I think, yeah, that prefaces it well. So what were the challenges involved? So you were basically, that's kind of like your baby admins. So like, they're like, okay, you have authority now. What problems did you encounter with that giveaway? Well, one of the first things we encountered is spammers. Like we said, like, okay, just apply one time. Yeah, you post, like, I want to be, yeah. But there are people, I don't know, we put up a bot or something and they just kept spamming at the point that we had to ban some of the members. In terms of winning though, there were no, no one contested it though. That's what's very nice about this group because in other groups, definitely, we will see a lot of people will say, this is rigged all members only. We already made it a policy that admins and moderators cannot win this prize just to avoid conflict. Yeah. And yeah, we just really just randomly picked the lagak. Yeah. And it turned out smoother compared to the other PC Philippine groups that usually it turns quite. Yes, yes. Acrimonious. Kasi mama, jealousy is very much part of Filipino culture. Yes, yes. And then people can start talking and then mangancao, something like that. That's also very much part of, you know, you're kind of like inciting a little, you know, ferment against somebody else, sir. I know. You will rarely hear a Filipino say, congratulations. That's like a hot take already. Like how hard is it to say, wow, I'm happy for you. I'm happy for you, right? Yeah, yeah. You'll never hear that from a Filipino. Sorry, sorry. I do have to jump in because Ardver Sugar does have, we have done some giveaways and I do have to jump in and say that actually my experience has been the reverse. When we do the drawings, I do them online like random so people can watch and I've been struck by how everybody is so positive now. Oh, congrats to you. Parang ganyan. I don't know kasi if it's like more, I mean, because you are, you do feel like, oh, we all kind of watch the same channel. So it's like we're rooting for you as well. Parang ganyan. But I'm not saying that, that your experience, I mean, I can super believe your experience. I just want to say that it's been the opposite of experience with us, which I found super heartwarming actually. I was also taken aback by the positivity of the people who didn't win. So I was really. I totally believe that because I believe that that is infectious because your group, most of the time, you always have that positive vibe. Yeah, we try to market the videos as like it's for beginners and we don't exclude anybody like we don't make it like super jargon. So being aggressive, you're going to feel bad. And then when you have positive members coming in first, that kind of attitude reflects and other people sets the tone. So it's also very important. And yeah, it's very true. It depends on whatever tone is set first and then they'll just pour over. So yeah, very organic as in a way. Yeah. All right, so let's get into the heart of it. So you became an admin. The admins basically said, oh, here's Katima. He volunteered. So basically, they didn't even know I was high. Akala nilang pinoy. Pinoy na pinoy. Yeah. I mean, because you look at you and you listen to you. I mean, I can imagine yung medyo konyo-konte, yung taga force, yung taga dasma, yung English accent konte. I can believe it. I can believe it. But basically, they saw you and they're like, here's a responsible guy. And basically, here's somebody that we know will work hard, right? Yeah, exactly. They're like, we're free. So they basically, what did they give you? What are the admin privileges that came with the title? I think like most of it is just the reward of knowing that you're part of the community. Miss Philippines, Miss Thai answer. It's all about the people. It's like a project and they gave me all the the bells and whistles. So like I like the band hammer. Yes, yes. Yeah. And interestingly, as an admin, you can also see statistics of your group, like how many women, how many men, ages, and all that stuff. And I could take that data to create sort of a research on like what are the average age of gamers that we have over 2000. For example, out of the 70,000, we have over 2000 members who are actually women. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. And the average age of the people in our group are like 34, 35 years old. Yeah. Yeah. That really is an interesting fact. You can take all that and download it as an Excel. And I've written a few papers on it too about the average age, yeah, of the gamers. And it was a great supplement. So all of the admin privileges I got, I actually managed to create a research. You put it to good use. I mean, yeah, you use these statistics to further research, to further knowledge also of the community and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of data. Yeah. And it also helps with my channel as well because then I can use that data and then create talk shirts. Yeah. And we talk about these things. And as an admin, you can also call people. You will not be short of guests. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. If you want to call. So many active people in the group. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the really cool things that as an admin, that's pretty reward other than it's all about the data. Yeah. Let's start with the optics and then you go onto the analytics. The data. Yeah. But let's focus specifically on the hammer. So part of the privileges of the admin is that you mentioned it already actually because you were doing it already when you were for that giveaway that you have the power to expel members, basically band members. Just give us a little bit of background what the rules of your group are. So like, what are the things that you might run afoul of that would result in a band? Yeah. The thing that pisses me off the most is the buy and sell. Okay. Buying and selling is such a big problem. I've seen you. I've seen you. Yeah. It's a huge problem because our group is not a buy and sell group. And there are so many of those. And we've seen a lot of Filipino gaming groups turned into a marketplace. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And those are the dangers we don't want our group to become. Yes. Because, you know, it's still genuine. We still want to help people and we don't want to flood our news feed. Yes. Just selling. Yeah. Plus, you can do that anyway in the marketplace. So those definitely only one warning. And that's a cool thing also as an admin. You can keep track of all the warnings you gave to a member. How many have you given them just out of curiosity? Like rough ballpark? Yeah. I would give two of all the members. Yeah. Total. Total. Yeah. This week alone, I had to take down about maybe 80 posts. Buy, sell. This week alone. I mean, that's a lot. I mean, imagine in seven days that's 80 posts and that's not even all of the posts of the group, right? Because there are legitimate posts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And but the cool thing about the group also is everyone pitches in. Everyone reports. So there are some decent members who act as watchdogs. They take on the role as watchdogs. And all they do is report. So this member na naman. Ano naman ang report sa kanya? And you do, aside from deleting the posts, you do kick out the members who post those things after the warnings. Yeah. After two or three warnings. At the very beginning of being an admin, I would send them private messages muna kasi active bako. But then there's just too many to come up with. So I just say, there's an option, remove and give feedback why it was removed. That's an admin benefit. And they'll see that come out as a warning on their page. Some of them read them. Some of them don't. So after two warnings, I see the record ding na na naman. Oh, ikaw na naman. Hindi obra yung PTPA permission to post admin. PTPA. Oh my gosh. PTPA actually annoys me the most. Because like, lalo na if they say, PTPA admin padilit lang kong bawa. Oh my gosh. That really was like so you're just saying. I didn't read. Yeah. I didn't read the stuff. Yeah. So admin. And I think that's very telling of Pinoy culture. Yung tipong ask forgiveness na lang instead of trying to figure out on my own. Pwede ba to? It's kind of, oh, pasensyan na. Hindi ko alam na mali. Ayawin yun no, parang, yun na hindi ko alam, hindi sa jya, parang ganon. Ano yun? In law school they say ignorance of the law is? Sorry, I've tried to remember the Latin. Ignorantia, licks, non-excusat or something. Ignorance of the law excuses no one. There you go. That's the lawyer, Mr. Anton, right there. The assumption is that you need to know the law. It's not an excuse, right? So is that your number one reason for banning people, would you say? Failure to follow that this is not a buy and sell group? Yeah, that's really one of the main reasons of most of the post-elite. Also another one is no hashtag when they do live stream. Ah, I've seen it. I've seen a couple of posts that you mentioned also. Yes. So live streams are allowed because some other groups don't allow it, but you need to tag the group properly. Yeah. Just to let them know that they're not taking advantage of our group by just blasting their content. By putting a hashtag, we get to know that people can also follow our group. Yes, yes. And in a way, we appreciate the support. Yeah. Mutual naman, di ba? Yeah, ni-mutual siya. So if you're going to throw your content onto our, if you're sharing a link lang to a live stream, that's okay. But if you slap, kasi mag-autoplayan niya sa Facebook. And at least a hashtag would be. And I take a lot, so many down because people don't read the rules. Yeah, and don't know aba yung pasensyon ahon, di ko alam. Taulang. Yung taulang ko. Come on, man. Sino magbabasa, I hope. I mean, who do you think may put the rules for so that people get private messages and they say like, why did you take down my post? And then it's like, because you violated the rule and it's like, bro, I didn't know. So that's okay. Yeah, that makes it all better, right? Yeah, that makes it okay. What PMs have you gotten personal, you know, like have people threatened you, violence? I mean, what kind of PMs have you gotten from your actions? Yeah, yeah. I've gotten a few PMs from, there was a seller who wrote, I think you saw this post who wrote selling PC. Did I like it? Or did I put lol or something? Maybe. I think you liked it. It says, PC specs, yun. They were selling PC. PC specs, female own. I remember this one. Oh my gosh. And I decided you inspired me. You inspired me. I removed the post. I banned the member. I didn't ban the member. I just removed the post. But then I posted a question to the group. What does it mean if mo bibenta ka and then sabi mo female own? And then the owner of that post nga akong he removed na PM siya sa akin, how could you do this to me? I feel so embarrassed. And I said like, mom, no, it's not about you. You inspired me. I didn't say your name or anything. This feels very familiar. I feel so attached. No, it's not about you. You inspired this conversation. No, as it will be clear, when you posted it, it was purely anonymous, like no name or anything. Yeah, no tag, no nothing pala nga. And I kept reminding their member nga, no ma'am, I am not attacking you. You inspired this discussion. Everyone is coming in. You could see this such a great conversation going on. Maybe sexist in a way, but yeah, it's still inspiring. It's a genuine conversation starter. And also, it's educated. I mean, it's a sharing of opinions. Yeah, it's sparked the sharing of opinions. So all our audience right now listening, you might want to put this up as a question too. Ano ba talaga ang meaning? Ano ba ibig bin? Female own. Oh, what does that mean? As men, do we run our PCs into the ground? Mas mahilik ba tayo mag overclock? I mean, you know what? Do we clean or do we not clean it? Do women clean it better? You know, it opens up this conversation. Actually, even for cars, I would find that kind of sexist. I mean, my wife drives a lot. I feel nga that my wife is even a more aggressive driver than me personally. When you drive in Manila, you gotta drive like a Manilenyo. You know, Katima has been in the Philippines. I need to apologize to Katima on air because we were taping this 6.30 on a Wednesday, but I told him 6 o'clock, but I was running late and yeah, I was driving like that. I was driving like a Manilenyo because I personally hate it when I tell people certain time and I don't make it at that time. So I have to apologize to Katima. Thank you so much. I was praying God today. I was checking test papers. No, students, ex. But sorry. The PM, so this one was like, oh, I felt like personally attacked and stuff. So it wasn't like remorseful na parang how could you do this to me. It was a aggressive kind of like. She was angry. Yeah, you attacked me. I can't believe you're so you're an admin. You're supposed to do this and that and I just kept trying to explain. Until that point nga sabi ko nalang ngam, ma'am. Let's end it here nalang po. Yeah, this is my point of view. Yeah, fighting. No, I didn't even try to put my point across na. I told her na I am just a stranger online. It's not, I'm not worth it. It's like, oh my gosh, I don't. And I was walking in the mall and reading her texts. Well, while you were, you know, yeah, so annoying. Ma'am, you know, I'm just a stranger online. Move on nalang tayos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I got a lot of dollars. What else sparks it? So in this particular instance you posted, so you anonymized it and then you used it as a as grants for a discussion. What other actions have you done that have resulted in irate pms? Yeah, basically, first of all, buying and selling, calling out. These are one of the biggest problems when a member calls out another member and does not omit their names. It creates this toxic conversation. It's like a wave, right? I mean, just builds and builds, yeah. And they'll pull from different groups also and bring it to our group. They'll pile on, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they'll pile on and they'll bring it on to other groups. So like now you can just screenshot anyone. So we made it a rule in the group na if you're going to call out someone, you have to omit the name because you're going to create a very toxic environment. So those are some of the really big ones that I have to take down and then it becomes very toxic and they'll PM me and say like, what are the PMs like? They'll say like, look, hey, why are you taking out? I didn't break any rules and I tell them, yeah, you did. I mean, like you can't call out someone you have to omit their name. I have them. I explain it in a very reasonable manner lang. Kahit mag-insulto sila, hindi ako mag-babalik. Pas-reasonable lang tayo na rules-based, objective lang ba. Yes, yes. They will, they can't come back at you kasi walang fire babalik, walang nasulina pa, past-mark balik. Yon lang, yeah. Other than that, other than that, there will be religious posts, political posts, hidden in game, hidden in video game. Yeah. Ah, medyo sa, medyo on the slide pa, like yung hindi talaga out and out, yung medyo tinado pa nila. Yeah, like for example, the Santo Niño and people are walking with Santo Niño and there's a guy walking with a Super Mario, for example. Okay. And I would say like, you know, that's funny, but can we push it in the Filipino culture? I don't know. So we'll wait till how the group reacts and then it becomes quite a toxic environment. So yeah, very balanced. In the PMs, does anybody, so you explain like, okay, so we have like, let's say we have rules one to ten and I deleted your post or I put you in the doghouse, let's say pano temporary suspension lang for like five days because you broke rule two and three. Like after you approach them in a very calm and rules-based manner, how many come back and say, you know you're right. That's the rule. I broke it. I'm sorry. It won't happen again. I think like 90% of the time, if you don't add flame to the fire and you approach them in a mature and calm, objective manner, wala silang mga mabalike, masang reasonable ka. Yeah. So I think like, that's one of the biggest problems among Filipino cultures. You know they're volatile. You know they're waiting for something to come back so that they could use. But if you don't give them what they want and you kill them with kindness in a way, there's really the interaction becomes very, very straightforward 90% of the time. But this is the link. This is the rule. No questions. Yeah. But how many, so I mean, I can't get the sense that they're looking for, yeah, they're looking for conflict. They're looking for drama. How many people actually acknowledge that they made a mistake? Sorry, na kamali talaga ako. Like I broke this rule. I mean, because the sense I'm getting is they'll just stop messaging. Parang ganon. And they'll quit. They'll leave the group. Yeah. They'll leave the house. So pagalap nila ng mali silang, wala silang mga valus balik para bang nahia sila and they leave. They lose faith, right? Yeah. But I would say like very rarely like 50% of the time, we meet these mature adults talag uncle gamers or papa gamers. Most of the time, ma uncle gamers, ma papa gamers. They're very cool and they say, I sorry po. It won't happen again. I know. Yeah. And yeah. And we build a rapport and friendship from there. I think like it depends on the age group talaga. If you meet your uncle gamer or papa gamers, yeah, 50%, I think it works. But for most of the time when you correct someone, they quit. They leave in a huff. They leave. Yeah. They leave in a huff. So too bad. But yeah, it is what it is. That's also, I mean, yeah. We brought up a lot of possible reasons why people, why Filipinos in general, why Filipinos in particular are so toxic online. There's a very big emphasis on face like, you know, your reputation and if you didn't get your way. Yeah. The tendency is just to leave in a huff and like, oh, you know, binas ko sako o nabala kayo. Exactly, exactly. As a gamer yourself, and it's interesting because you really, you've seen a lot of Filipino culture. Like you said, you mentioned that you were playing in land cafes and stuff. But you know, you also in touch with your gaming culture there in Thailand. So is, are Filipinos really more toxic than other Asian gamers? 100%. No question. 100% because like, I think Filipinos and Indonesians, these are the two and here are some reasons like in political science, they taught us this. Number one, Filipinos are competitive by nature. Yung talaga. Number two, Filipinos are very passionate and volatile by nature. Number three, out of four, Filipinos are very celoso by nature. But then that is fueled by the fact that Filipinos are very mayabang by nature. Yes, yes. So you put that all together and you now have this melting pot of Pinoy. Mga hambugero. Yeah. Mga hambugero, pero mga celoso. Yeah. So now you have this melting pot of emotions and the inferiority complex of coming from the Philippines. And so yeah, you get this culture of we want to be better. I want to be better not just as a country, but against other fellow Filipinos. I know. It's even Filipinos complaining about fellow Filipinos. We ran a YouTube poll on the channel and it's like, so which nationality would you most not want to have? And so, you know, we put the kind of stereotype like Chinese, I mean, because of this a lot of geopolitical tension and just in general, like if you have the Chinese mainlanders here in the Philippines. So we put that in some other nationalities. But the number one vote then was Filipinos. And you know, most of the channel is from most of our viewers are Filipinos. So it's also kind of surprising that even we ourselves admit that like, yeah, we don't really want to play with Pinoy. We're super toxic. With other Pinoy. Yeah, they become competitive with each other, along Yeah. Or they shout at like in Dota 2, they shout at, Yeah, all the call outs are wrong and all that. But yeah, I mean, compared to Thailand, for example, or all the non-English speaking countries kase, if you look at CLMV, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam. And Thailand, these are not English speaking countries. So if you look at Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and the Philippines, they have more access to the West and international channels, which makes Filipinos extra competitive. Kasi tigin nila. If you look at a Discord channel of a typical Pinoy, daming may international channels yan sa Discord niya. Yes, yes, yes. For a Thai, wala, puro mga locals lang talaga yan because we're in a bubble. We don't know how to speak English. So we end up in a bubble. But yeah, Pinoy's 100% toxicity, passion, but I can't say it completely negative. I mean, they're just very passionate. I don't know, man. When you have like a 15 year old screaming in your ear. I saw this YouTube video when the Dota, I know you posted about this too actually in the group. When the Dota 2 finals were in Singapore, what did they call the ancient, what did they call the championship? I forget. So the Dota 2 Finals were in Singapore and then I saw a local YouTube creator. So he was going around Singapore because there were so many gamers from different countries there in Singapore to watch the finals. I remember this one. And then he was like, tell me you're a Southeast Asian gamer without telling me you're a Southeast Asian gamer. It's like puro mga swear words. P.I., bobo, takad. So it's like in a way, I mean, we're so pervasive, but our toxicity is so pervasive that even the other Southeast Asian gamers have kind of Yes, and used our swear words, used our, because you can't go online on a Southeast Asian server without encountering pinoy swearing. In Thai, we could never say that. Like in Thai, if we're playing video games. That particular swear. We would rather swear in Filipino than in Thai because swearing in Thai feels so aggressive and so unnatural that it is not within our nature unless you absolutely completely hate that person. Right. So we would say the P word or the amp word in those servers because it's more, I think, accepted. So Filipinos have their contribution. Because we laid the groundwork, right? Because we're using P.I. word. To your point on, it just feels so direct and offensive. I mean, ang lutong, ang tagalog parang ang lutong. In a way, ang malutong din when you say P.I. and tagalog. But it's also very, it's like water off a duck's back, right? I mean, when you're playing a land cafe and sabi siya, tangin mo. It's like, I mean, it's, yeah, it's super normal. I mean, you'll get annoyed. Yes, it's cathartic in a way. I mean, it's like you're playing poker, you might get tilted a little so you might like, you know, might affect your game a little bit. But it's very, um, yeah, it's a trash talks accepted. Yeah, accepted. War cry in a way. Yeah. Trash talk friendly banter. You could say that. So, but we don't have a lot of comb shops here in Thailand and screaming like that in comb shops is not. It was not. Yeah, we would not do that. Only in the Philippines. Like, I remember there was this guy who knife killed some guy in CSGO at a comb shop and he said, I'm going to hidden Mitsurugi and everybody's like shouting. Going nuts. Yeah. Can't do that in Thailand. I mean, in the, in the gaming shops that you do have, it's a much more sedate kind of environment. Quiet? Yeah, because like we, we understand that people work, people study as well. Those also be the clientele. So we have to also respect the space also because comb shops have games, but there are also spaces for people to work and study. So that, that culture alone along with Thai culture. Yeah. Respect the mind. Respect the mind. You have to respect other people or else you'll, you'll get kicked out of the internet. Yeah. So similar to Japan, I guess or Korea where there's this rule. Yeah. Unlike in the Philippines where you have to be loud. Yeah. Yeah. Being quiet is the exception rather than the rule. That's why in the Philippines, you have a separate comb shop or a separate room for working. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yung medyo like, it's like four out of 30 computers, right? Yung medyo maliin lang. Partition. Yeah. Partition. May nakakubikal lang. Oh, ni partition nila doon. That's the quiet boring thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You need to work. When you're using the keyboard like actual typing instead of like WASD, right? Yeah. And say, you need the entire key key over there. Over here, only the WASD key. Yeah. It works. Yeah. Yeah. The man, I remember like he brought up the knifing at CS. I remember ka. So barang bastos nundi ba. Parang binastasot. And some people like they'll really, parang sinasa ja nila. Like, you know, if you're creeping up behind somebody, you can use your gun naman dima. But dima, parang there's added flavor if you take out a knife Yeah. And then everybody's like, halan. And everybody's just, oh my gosh. And then after that, after the game, you go out and have a beer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You have a beer. You eat. Parang it's like ano. But in the moment, di ba, like, you could be best friends. You could be beside the guy that you're knifing. Pero wala talaga, wala pagundangan yan. You really take out the knife and you know, backstab. I think like in the Philippines, they created the term concept. I think that's the term. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was my generation. Yeah. From, from Starcraft di ba? Because it's a concept ability. Yeah. That's a Filipino term that we use that too. Hey, concept concept meaning you're looking at someone's monitor. But there's an updated version for like, if you happen to be playing an online game and then one of yung kalaban mo streamer and then you're watching his stream. I forget the term. I'm not that big into online gaming but there's an updated version of concept where it's been applied to. Stream hunting or something like that. Yeah. They find him where he is because he's streaming. Yeah, because he's streaming. Now you can see his stream. So you have the viewpoint of your opponent. Which is interesting because I thought the streams were, there was a delay. I lag. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know but somebody always complains. I mean, I don't, I don't, I'm not a big streamer myself for that kind of like online competitive stuff. But I do know people complain stream sniping or something. Yeah, stream sniping. Yeah, something like that. That's I think the right term. They do complain about it. But so, I mean, because from your perspective, you've dealt with a lot of toxicity online from your group and from your gaming. Do you think ultimately it's a negative characteristic to have? Because I mean, we have framed it a little bit in a sense. If we're being kind, we use terms like, you know, people are very passionate, very excited. They just want to display their skills. But I mean, putting the kind of like, Philippines answers aside and then overall, do you think it's a negative for Filipino gamers to be framed in that light in this very toxic kind of, you're Filipino, you're playing online. These are the things we expect from you. You flood English only servers with Filipino. I mean, sorry, that among us, when it came out and then sobrang naging sikat during the pandemic and there was like English only servers, but Filipinos being Filipinos. Or like all the chapters being flooded. Like what do you mean? And it's English only. This kind of disrespect for rules which you've seen in your in your own group, this kind of like very macho swaggering persona. Overall, do you think that's a detriment or ultimately a positive for Filipino gamers? I think at this point in the era of Filipino gaming, I think it's it's passed positive or negative. I think the fact that it's become, I yeah, miss Philippine. We elevate. Yeah. Yeah. We're past positive and negative ngayon. Right now, it's an iconic trait for a Filipino. So whether it's positive or negative, the fact still remains that pop culture appreciates this kind of has permeated. Yeah. Even south easy are south easy. In a conservative region, such as Southeast Asia to have, they say the nail that stands out gets hammered, but this snail keeps popping back up, which is the Filipino. We just keep swearing and we just keep going online. I think it's beyond positive or negative because even here in Thailand, if there is a Filipino in the group, they have accepted it as what it is. Yeah. Oh, okay. Philippine. Yeah. Okay. Ganon nyo. Ganon talaga. But isn't that like ano, like I mean, me personally as a Filipino, I don't want to be represented by those kind of very loudmouth, uh, boorish, unboorish gamers. It's irreversible. It's irreversible. So what I'm saying with the point is that it's beyond whether it's positive or negative, you can't take it back now. Penoise is out there forever. Yeah. And I think that it's up to the future generations, whether the redeem or do I know the shift? Yeah. Not, not nerf the attitude, but bring the attitude to a more positive light. Like lakad matatag is a very positive war cry in Dota. And I think more of that should be accommodated. Though the swear words, because Southeast Asians don't even understand it. Yeah. So it becomes just a term. Another. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But for Filipinos, they feel ashamed because they understand that word per se and that it's, uh, it's a swear word for them. And it's very, it's very graphic. I mean, it was, uh, yeah. So yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's really neither positive or negative, but it is what it is. And it's up to you, the listeners. If you're a new gen, can you raise Filipinos? Can we kind of change or modify or should we even modify it? Um, yeah. Being called Penoise should be something good or should be something that people would say, oh, I like that. I like that. Instead of saying, oh, no, not another Filipino server. Got to complain about the team. Got to, I know. Yeah. So you want to go from, uh, you want to go from, oh no, not another Filipino too. Yes, we have a Filipino. Yes, may pinoy tayo. Yeah. Oh yeah. We want to go there in the future. That should be the goal. Yeah. Because you know, skills wise, I mean, we have a lot of pro gamers in Dota 2, in Valorant. I mean, skills wise, the Philippines is a very fertile ground to, to attract or to recruit and to train. Um, and these are like top caliber world class players. We're talking about like, I mean, I'm not, I'm not that big in Dota 2, but I have a friend who is and he's telling me about this one player and he's the best at this particular character that, that character na parang, he becomes a clone or parang his dual ability. So it's super hard to micromanage, pero the, the number one recognized player in the world for that character is Filipino. Um, so it is some, it's not a skills gap. Um, I mean, at least personally, I think we, we do produce a lot of top tier, very excellent players. And uh, that, that does go back into, because we have this culture of like you're playing in the comp shops, you're playing in the land cafes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Competitive. We go online uh, from a sort of a young age and yeah, we want to be the best, right? We, yun nga, mga hamugero. Um, but so it's not maybe, uh, but again, at the same time, you get these, these players who think they're the best, but who are like very sub par, like they're the ones with the least amount. That's why they're the loudest. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Making up. Yeah. Making up for their lack of kills or their lack of contribution to the team. So I, I don't know. Um, uh, like sometimes the, sometimes the loudness is not earned. I mean, you can kind of like be, um, the kind of brash swaggering type. If you're the, the fastest gun in the West, right? Like if you are the cowboy that, that does have the skills to back up all of your, your, your swear. Yes. Exactly. Like, you know, if you're maverick and you can't, you know, you can't pilot that plane or you can't shoot that gun the fastest, right? But, um, I think, uh, sana if like for me, like, yeah, if there are newer, um, younger generation players listening, like if you can't be that toxic, if, if you can be the best, right? I mean, yeah, yeah. And if you know, if you, you want to, it's like Pokemon, like if you want to be the best, right? That no one ever was, but you know, Ash was never that brash, that never that arrogant. He stayed, he stayed true to grind it. Yeah. Yeah. And he grinded how many years? So many years before he became the top guy. They finally retired him because he finally won the championship. He got the arc set and then they move on. Yeah. So I think for me, that's kind of like, um, at least personally for me, like an old school gamer that is super, that, that isn't so much into the online scene, but uh, I do find it kind of, um, uh, like when you go abroad kasi as a Filipino, there are so many, like even not as gaming, there's so many kind of, you feel that you kind of have to represent the country in the best line because there are so many other stereotypes already. Um, yeah. And that's something else that you're fighting against, right? You start talking gaming, that's the kind of perception that you're dealing with. So I wish maybe, I wouldn't mind it so much if like 80% of Pinoy gamers are like, oh, grave. Like okay, like he really is mayabang, but kasi he has the, he has the stats to back it up. Yeah. I think like, yeah, the next generation are, are very mainit ng ulo. I think like they have to really find a way to, yeah, the youngins, the younglings are very, very fast to get triggered because they're so desensitized with online or the, yeah, yeah. Ganyan yung man nakikita ako sa mga streamers and stuff. Yeah. So they, they reflect on that. But for us, like you said, as old school gamers, we're more level headed because we probably experience life differently. Yeah. Yeah. In a more linear manner than most of these guys, these young kids who have only been exposed to culture on the internet, which they think is acceptable. Yeah. So those are kind of what brings the future of Filipinos is how they're going to be perceived is up to the next generation. If you guys are listening, you know, wherever you go, wherever you're playing, remember you are representing. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. The working noise. How do you want to represent that? Yep. And I think also like, I mean, as you get older, your esteem gets put in other places. I mean, you know, you're maybe 15 years old and you're like playing Call of Duty and it's like, you know, you're super focused on mother effort. Like this guy must be cheating because, you know, he's typed me from like, how many meters to wait. Yeah. And if your life just revolves around this game and how well you do, parang that kind of fuels how passionate you are and also how intense you become. But, you know, as you get older, your esteem kind of gets diffused. And maybe you've been beaten down a lot. I mean, like myself, right? I mean, if somebody swears at me, I'm like, oh, go ahead, man. It's like, relax, just chill. I mean, yeah. My number one go to word talaga is, oh, I'm too old for this. Yeah. Yeah. Like how you dealt with that particular PM, right? Yeah. I'm a stranger on the internet. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just, I don't, I am too old for this drama. I have to go take care of my kids. I have to go, you know, do so many other things. It's like, I'm going to check my papers now. So let me just turn off. Yeah. Yeah. But I just relax lang. I mean, and maybe it is a generational thing. I mean, maybe the young people aren't even concerned about how they're perceived online. Maybe it is an older kind of preconception like, oh, you know, it's like really kind of negative and toxic and things like that. They don't care about the person across. The desensitization is so there because they probably taking it too. So it's like, if I'm getting hurt this so many times, yeah, I'm just going to mirror it back. It should be okay for me to throw it right back. And that's a good point because I mean, my brother plays online a lot, but usually in the North American servers for Call of Duty, I mean, he gets called a Mexican. I mean, these are not Pinoy players. I mean, these are like North American players, right? I mean, American gamers can be super trash talky as well. I mean, usually you play a pickup game of basketball here in the Philippines or in the States. Grabi ang mag-trash talk, diba. So I mean, it's not, I mean, maybe it's just that Filipinas are ahead of the curve and we are importing the kind of trash talking that sports, real world sports are used to and we're just kind of, we're the first ones to import it kind of into the esports venue. Yeah. I mean, like, I think because they're very westernized. Yeah. Because Filipinos are not afraid to join international servers. They bring that with them. Yeah, when they go back to the Southeast Asian ones. Yeah. So when they're playing on Southeast Asian servers, they bring that Western attitude, which we're not familiar with. Yes. Yeah. And that's how they create this identity of Pinoy. Yeah. So Filipinos bring that kind of toxicity because very rare do we see that in Southeast Asia. Indonesians and Filipinos are the most. Yeah. They're kind of like. Creative communicators. To put it mildly. Like if the one with the microphone on yelling at his teammates will, diba, most likely in a Southeast Asian server, be Filipino or Indonesian parang ganon. Coaching in. Yeah. They're the ones who are comfortable with Mike on and shouting at strangers online and things like that. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And yeah. And most of the time, they're not even afraid to talk to people who don't understand them. Yeah. Yeah. They will just be screaming in your face. Go left. Go left. Mid lane. Mid lane. Oh, yung mo yung yung diba. Wide. But look at the wayan. Rush B. Rush B. Or I love it like this. Yes. Yes. When somebody throws an accidental flashback, everybody gets flashback. They're like, ah, diba, diba, kumawa niyan. Yung mga niyan. Actually, you know, I mean it is toxic, but at the same time, I mean it, it creates these moments that you remember, diba. I mean, very memorable online events na. Most of my memorable online events came from had some kind of Filipino involved, right? Had to be one Filipino there at the very least. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is. I mean, it is. I mean, as you mentioned, it is both negative and positive. And maybe, yeah, it has been elevated beyond that already. I mean, it is some, it's a national identity. I mean, it's really, it really surprised me when I started digging into it. Like, yeah, even Filipinos hate it, but they acknowledge it. And, um. Yeah, hate it, but they acknowledge that it's part of it. And it's true. Yeah, it's true. It's an odd way of saying. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like saying that, um, yeah, I, I, I'm a misogynist. You know, I'm sexist. I, I, I, I think men are better than women. And it's an apologetic kind of, uh, I mean, because I mean, you know, when you, you talk about philosophy, the first thing they teach you is that know thyself, right? I mean, you have to be cognizant of, of, um, your own flaws. In this case, it's like super, super like, oh yeah, we're, we're like that. Full stop. Like, we're not going to, we're going to change or anything. I'm not even going to explain myself. Yeah. We like that. Yeah, that's how we roll. That's how we roll. Do you want me to say I'm sorry? Yeah. You, you, you, you. Ito sayo, diba. Diba, diba. Diba. Diba. Diba. Diba. Diba. Ganyan pa diba. Diba. Diba. Yeah. I mean, like Filipinos are in a way also inspiring because on a global level, you, you can Kumpaint ngayon sa mga, pero ang ganoon. You can complain all you want, but the fact is that Filipinos have reached global level. They are an evolution from all the other e-sport groups in Southeast Asia. If you look at any international event from Valorant to CSGO to Dota, and even mobile gaming, or AOV, for example, mobile legend, all Filipinos reach those international levels, but the rest of Southeast Asia doesn't even get close. Maybe in a way, the pinoy is deserved for them because they're the ones who towed the line for Southeast Asian e-sports. How many of those professionals were 10-year-old gamers swearing into liba a headset before or at a comp shop or the land cafe? And to add to that, the government doesn't even fund these. Yes, yes, there is no official support. How are they going to, how do they get around? How do they find sponsors? It's double hard, like ties. When they went to Southeast Asian games to represent Thailand in e-sport, the government threw all the budget with a food, airplane ticket, got your back, got your salary, we got your back. But then Filipinos, the government don't get much, but they still get the job done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great. How? Yes, that's a good point. It's a very, yeah, di ba parang, I mean, we're, it's a very hyper competitive bubble, but the best rise to the surface. And yeah, I think, I think that would be an interesting look at the analytics also, like how many Filipinos, like are we the leading represented, like in terms of numbers for Southeast Asia in terms of pro gamers? And I think on an international scale, on a, not even on competitive gaming, like even streaming, game personalities, because you guys have English, you guys have an easier way of creating content for an international viewer compared to a Thai. If, for example, the whole reason why my channel is in English is because I have to cater to a bigger audience. If my entire channel was just purely on Thai, my channel would just be in a bubble that cannot get out to a wider audience. So Filipinos has content created hardware sugar, for example, I mean, like I knew about hardware sugar in Thailand. Everyone, everyone talks about hardware sugar here in Thailand and they open the TV whenever hardware sugar does their live stream. And yeah, because you guys use English most of the time. And that, I think is big advantage for Filipinos. I can cater. I always joke whenever there's like a reality show, like a Southeast Asian reality show. So they get from different Asian Southeast Asian countries. It's always the Pinoy who will be the most lokuatius, because he's the one most comfortable in English. I mean, I mean, like the Malaysians, you know, maybe the Indonesians bahasa, they feel a little shy. They won't be talking, but like, you know, you get an amazing race out East Asia. So it's the Filipinos are like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because yeah, chat with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So we gotta do this and oh, we gotta look up for that guy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Look us on the Filipino team. And you know, like Filipinos are also used to hamming it up for the camera, diba. So like, oh, okay, parang guno may, may conting drama. Sige, kaya natin yan, diba. So it's part of the show, part of the person. Exactly. Showbiz, diba. Alam natin yan. Kaya natin yan. No. So I always find it funny how when it's a reality show, like in the region, it's mostly the Pinoy who are like the most talkative, because yeah, they are, they do have that advantage in English. Yeah, like I said, it's beyond positive or negative. It is. You can't see it. It is the identity now. You can't see it at whatnot. Yeah. It's, it is what it is. Like if U.S. likes guns, it is what it is. It is. Yeah. Similarly, both are positive and negative, diba. Both are positive and negative, but it is what it is. We should have a constitutional amendment to ano. The right to gaming and the right to trash talk and swearing is, is a constitutional right for every Filipino. That's a freedom of speech. Yeah. That's okay. I'm thinking that's okay. That's part of who we are. Yeah, they actually did that. Like there was a video game tournament, dada, dada tournament a few years ago, and they did it concert style where players were on stage. Okay. On the left side were Filipinos in the finals, on the right side were Vietnamese. The Vietnamese were very quiet while they were playing. But then the Filipinos on that other side, you can hear them. Even if I was back at the stage, like I didn't hear them talking. Oh my gosh. Pari, pari. Nga, nga, nga, nga, nga, nga, nga, nga, nga. No, no, no, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid, mid. Like, gosh, you got, you got mics. Okay lang, nga. They can hear you. Don't need to shout your other BMAs can hear you. Yeah, exactly. I talked to one of the, they won. And they won, I think, 100,000. But I think like 30,000, $3,000. They won about $3,000. And one of the members said he was very grateful to win because he needed that prize money to buy a ticket back home. I was like, what? No one's, no government sponsor you. No one's sponsored you. Wala, sir. Wala, no sponsor. Bute na nal, bute na nal, nal. I don't know. I don't know. It's TNT na ako dito sa time. It's a good one. It's like, but TNT ako. Eh, yung plan B, yung plan B. That was the prize money. He needed the prize money to get home. I was like, wow, holy cow. Talk about on the line. Yeah, and it's true. Like those are the true economics of being a Pinoy gamer, right? I mean it's really like hustle. Like you can't blame them in a way because it's really, you need to win and that's how hyped up you are, how amped up you are that you need to win. I mean, very basic things. Like I can't get stranded here. I gotta go back home. I think that also contributes to the competitive nature of Filipinos because he ragged to riches. People have seen content creators and competitive e-sport gamers become rich by just playing with you. Some kids, they see that as a way to get out. Like I like boxing. How many pock yard did it? So yeah, I mean, I think like Alodia came from middle class to now one of the personalities in Southeast Asia. But Alodia's rise was like really like when you're pretty. I don't mean that's a sexist remark. I know, but when you're pretty. No, and to be fair to Alodia, the way she cosplays, she really I told this to my wife. Your nickname? Name basis? First name. I needed a shorter thing because I kept referring about it to my wife and she's like, who the hell is this? Oh, yeah. I've been on camera saying that actually I don't have a crush on Alodia. I have another crush on another one of their group. But anyway, see Alodia because like when she cosplays like sobrang she can really channel the character. Yeah, unfairness or like when she does Cobra Commander or something. It's like The leather in there is like Right? Right? Yeah. The blue hair. The blue hair dancing girl. The eyes. It's like really very focused. So unfairness. Wild. Yeah, so there's so many different avenues, but it's like a super competitive. Like the game made. It's the rag to riches attitude. It's the inferiority attitude, the competitive attitude of Filipino. So if you look at like gaming forums, that's the reason why they're very passionate. Yup. As ng pride. As ng pride ang pinon. So to, I mean pride comments before the fall, right? I mean not to get too unknown. But I mean that's also that's also you, Briss. So it's also like, I mean it's a good thing, but it can also it can bring you up, but it can also bring you down. Very much, very much. Like in the forums, one of the main problems that leads to toxicity talaga is pride. Like kong ting correction lang. Masasakit mo sila. Yeah. Like they would say like, for example, like I'm using wifi lang bakit ang internet ko very bad? I say like, you should use LAN. Wi-Fi is not good. Amen, bro. Amen, brother. Wired connection, man. Wired connection. And sabi na na, ah, it's super defensive na siya. Paas ng essay nil. Oh, it's so old. Arcade technology is like, bro. I'm just. LAN, man. Just trying to correct. Yeah, yeah. We always say on hardware sugar. Like we say like every 10, there are actually tips that I just keep repeating and that's one of them. If you can wired connection. The mobiles are cheaper because you know the wifi stuff, the Bluetooth stuff. And it's faster. It's more reliable, et cetera, et cetera. Always for me wired. I never go wireless. LAN, LAN, LAN. When I check out and I scope out the place, the first thing I look for is the LAN. Yeah, where's the ethernet? Where's the ethernet? Actually, that's even one of the things I do when I call for a hotel. Yeah. Are you asked? Do you have a LAN? Yeah. Do you have a LAN port? I will bring the LAN cable. Yeah, yeah. You just make sure you have a LAN port. Yeah, yeah. No, it's really more reliable. But even like that, I mean, these are the things we take as bedrock, as fax, as undisputable. And yet, when you correct the Pinoy online, it's like, ah, dang, maramalika. Ganito-ganito, ganito. Oh, yun, yun, yun. They would go to a defensive mode. Yeah, yeah. Habad, yeah. Habad. Like there's one time the guy said, why don't you just google it and then I just corrected them ayong ganyan para because you know, you come to the group and find the answers. And pasang ang reply nyo mo, ah, I'm just recommending it para initiative sa mga tao is like, oh my God, bro. Relax. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a conting correction lang, galit na. Yeah, so always, for me, akong suggestion is use po excessively. Okay. If you use the word po excessively, your tone, kasi hindi man may identify ang tune o sa comment or some writing. Yes, yeah, yeah. Yes, very important. You'll hear me say po a lot para pasabi lang ang peace, bro. Yes, yes. Re-relax lang, relax lang nyo po. I am still showing your respect, right? Yeah, I'm using the honorific. Yeah. Which is, is there something like that? I'm sorry, this is really connected. I was just more for my curiosity. Is there something like that in Thailand and honorific that you can kind of sprinkle it? It's called the politeness modifier. The politeness modifier is crop, crop in Thai means po. For women, ka. Okay. Ka. Ka for women. So you have sawadi crop for men and sawadi ka for women when you say hello, right? So the crop and the ka there is a politeness modifier to let people know that you're being respectful of that sentence. So po is a very great neutralizer. Yes, yes. Yeah. And then or addressing someone as mam or sir in Filipino somehow is also a way to de-escalate the situation. That I am I am not talking down to you. I am I'm sure you respect and I know although you know I was just thinking about it now to be honest we don't like like here at Heart for Sugar when we talk to when we chat with customers we never call them mam or sir and that's on purpose because I tell my stuff like we want the kind of environment like we treat you like friends so you come to us you look for advice so I mean it's very deliberate and it's also kind of to be a bit different because it's very common in Filipino when dealing mam sir left and right so we take a very kind of different approach to customer interaction but not but always with the sense that you would also not talk down to your friend so I think that covers that as well that you know we're not like this we know more than you kind of vibe it's like we want to help you out this is how we would talk to our friends not this very differential kind of because it's a bit abuso then yung ebang customers it's like it's like it's like it's like even the amount of abuse you take every single day with all their customers it's a different setup then it's like oh I'm spending money with you so I expect it to be whatever right the service especially if I'm spending 50,000 60,000 I expect service and they're like you know what that's so amazing there's a guy who came up to our forum and he showed off his mid tier PC and I asked how much did you spend for it's like 100,000 100,000 it's mid it's mid range range it is like you can live for two three months with that money you tell me 100,000 and you plopped it down it's mid range to be fair a lot of bells and whistles you can get very decent fair this for like 40, 50 I have quoted one recently so prang decent tanong 50k but siguro he wanted the bells and whistles or for him baka high end but for him mid range because 30-90 level if you reach like the PZ Enthusiast level especially in our group I think calling it mid range is just playing it safe because if you call it high end in the taro may magane may come on to say way high end it's like that was my life savings I didn't eat for maginudos yeah that's another thing about filipino it's like rare you can see people you have to be careful if you're papayabang like right now I tell people deliberately don't post diabolos stuff diabolos for stuff on the group because it's still free it's not wish diarrhea upon you by don't do it you paid for that early access it's a privilege yeah they're showing it off like I hope nobody you know goes into the form that's added work for me but it's like oh no on that note super thanks Katima sorry I intended this to be like 30 minutes lang but like we're into an hour but I think that's common when we chat I mean I always have such a good time the last time we chat too we went over 10 minutes because many YouTubers I had to cut it up really extended it so long to be honest when we had a mutual friend who emails to chats with me as well he was like we were doing a regular podcast and I would love to have Katima on more often it's just like the problem is our podcast is super bootstrapped so it's like we don't have a lot of resources for it so it's like it's mabilisan super fast lang I think the best contents come from that na hindi planned it it's more organic it becomes more organic I just feel bad as inviting somebody so you're kind of like the host then it's magabara-bara or it's not like very sought out or it's um I think like it's a lot of fun especially if the chemistry is right and you know you have the same interest you can bounce off from each other right so I think like shout out to Casey for letting this happen big fan um yeah so definitely we'll see more of Katima I hope so I hope to come back so much fun guys if you guys were listening I hope you enjoyed today's banter between me and Sarah and Tom we always have a lot of fun it's like this all the time yeah it's just like a regular conversation yeah I don't subscripted or anything and that's what I enjoy one of these if he comes to visit for sure oh my god I would spend so many hours with him just hanging out our beer our beer yeah oh no we were just talking off stream actually we're both going to be more healthy now but definitely cause for alcohol a little bit social content yes exactly exactly what we should do is like maybe like if we go to a quiet nice bar we'll turn on the microphone while we're drinking we're also talking exactly yeah yeah for sure for sure and that'd be for sure playing at the back and then keep the lady boys aside I know I know I was going to say and then afterwards we'll turn off the mic and then go to like to a real bar to a real like nothing happened nothing was recorded no recording like in the back yung di mo makintay oh man my Trump stumps what did that happen I'm going to explain that to the missus like what happened in Thailand stays in Thailand alright on that note thank you so much for having me thank you so much again I super apologize for the the pushing back no I really I really tried to make it a point to be on time and stuff today was just like super busy but thank you again for being so accommodating with everything and always a pleasure to talk with you