 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not Islam is harmful and we are starting right now. With apostate prophets opening statement, thanks so much for being with us apostate prophet, the floor is all yours. Hello everybody and welcome. Thank you so much James and thank you so much Muji for arranging and agreeing to this debate. Today we want to discuss whether Islam is harmful. The original idea of this debate was, I forgot to turn my timer on again, give me a second, was whether extremists represent Islam or not. When I first looked at the title, I thought to myself, what exactly is extremist? We first have to define what extremist means. According to J.M. Berger, who is a social scientist, extremism is hard to define, it's not easy to see, but it usually describes a group of people that has a counter, an extreme position that is counter to the position that is held within the society and that tends to radically shift the ways of society mostly in violent ways or in very totalitarian ways toward a different worldview. According to Lynn Davies, extremism means having no tolerance and imposing your own beliefs upon the society in order to change it mostly through radical means, meaning a violent or again suppressing other people. In the West we have this notion that there are moderate Muslims and there are extremist Muslims. This is not really a notion that is the same between the West and the Islamic societies. When we talk about moderate Muslims in the West, we are talking about Muslims who don't resort to violence and don't resort to means of overthrowing the society and imposing their own beliefs. The issue is something like moderate and extreme also exists within Islam, but it doesn't really exactly mean the same thing. There is a concept called Wasatiyah, which is the middle path, which is also mentioned in the Quran. And in Islamic tradition, it means that the middle path, the moderates are those who follow exactly the way of Islam, whereas extremists are on both sides, those who try to get rid of the laws of Islam and to try to secularize and make society free. And then there are those extremists who relentlessly kill and murder and destroy society, including fellow Muslims. And what's funny about this is that Muji here, my opponent would say that certain people like Islamic extremists are extremists from his point of view. But people who have watched debates on this channel will remember that several weeks back Daniel Kikicchu, for example, who is a Muslim extremist, also described human rights activists as extremists. So from his point of view, human rights activists are extremists. If you ask ISIS, and I'm not exaggerating, ISIS and al-Qaeda and other organizations like that will also say that they themselves are not extremists. They are moderate. They are the middle path. Because those who come with a lighter interpretation of Islam are extremists, and those demons who do not exist are extremists. So we have to really get to what extremism is. When it comes to being harmful, humans have the desire to flourish and to be happy. It is the Aristotelian belief or idea that humans seek flourishing, humans seek ultimate happiness. I think it is fairly understandable that humans have this intrinsic desire to live and to flourish and to survive. And there are certain ideas that do not really serve that purpose. When it comes to Islam now, we have the fact that Islam is very much anti-intellectual. In Quran verse 7, chapter 174, it says that Allah made people for hell who don't believe and who don't think. In 24 verse 51, it tells people to obey Allah and his messenger mindlessly. In chapter 33 verse 36, it tells you that you should obey Muhammad and Allah no matter what they say very much. Islam is intolerance. When we look at Quran chapter 9 verse 29, we find the command to fight those who don't believe in Islam and who don't believe in Allah until the last day. We don't follow the Islamic laws and to fight them until they are subdued and they pay protection money in exchange for their lives. We have this further defined in chapter 9 verse 30. This is used against Christians and Jews because of their beliefs. In chapter 9 verse 28, it is said that polytheists should be kept out of holy lands because they are filthy. In chapter 9 verse 23, it says that you should not take your fathers and your family as friends if they prefer disbelief over belief. And therefore in Islamic law, and we can find this in the classical books of Islamic law throughout Islamic history, such as the Mughni and Mughni. Most people will not have any idea what these things are, but Muslims and classical Muslims know that these are traditional classical books of Islamic law. Reliance of the traveler, which you can find in English, and many of these classical Islamic books will define and tell you that it is a Muslim's duty, it is the duty of the Muslim community to keep the Muslims high and to suppress the disbelievers and to have them humiliated, even if they are part of your society. Because that is what how you are supposed to treat them according to the Islamic texts. Islam is very much focused on war and agreed upon narration from Mohammed found in Riyadh-e-Sardinian. It says that one of the major sins is to flee the battlefields. I mean you are supposed to not only join every war for Islam, fleeing the battlefield also does not just mean it is sinful, it means you will go to hell for that, definitely. Because how dare you flee the battlefield? You're supposed to fight for Allah. In Sahih Bukhari 2,926 there is the major notorious prophecy that in the future you will fight and kill the Jews and they will be behind stones and trees and even the stones and trees will tell you to come and fight and kill the Jews. According to Sahih Muslim 22, a very famous hadith which is undeniable, Mohammed himself said that he has been sent to fight the people until they testify that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, which is why fighting for Islam has been seen as a duty of the Muslim community forever, including in the famous book Mokaddima of the forerunner of sociology, Ibn Khaldun, in his masterpiece he says that what makes Islam distinct is that it gives the leader of the Islamic nation of the Islamic community the duty to lead the Muslims to uphold Islam and to spread Islam by preaching or by force. Islam has apostasy laws, meaning someone who leaves Islam like myself cannot even think of being happy, cannot even avoid harm because leaving Islam means I should be executed according to Mohammed in reports such as Sahih Bukhari 6,922. Islam is known for suppressing women in chapter 4 verse 34 of the Quran. It tells us that men are in charge of women, that women are to obey their husbands and that men have the right to admonish, to separate beds and finally to hit their wives if they fear arrogance from their wives. It has been established in Islamic history due to Mohammed's words that versions can be married off by their parents without their consent while older women have to be asked for their consent. Women have no influence in society, which means women cannot even think of whether they can or cannot be happy. There is always the harm against women who are half of the human population, so that much we have about harm and happiness. Islam is notorious for child marriage, Mohammed himself according to the vastly agreed reports of Mohammed's life, married a child, his wife Aisha, when she was six and consummated his marriage with her when she was nine. I'm sorry to be very explicit and disgusting about this, but imagine a child that is six years old, imagine a girl that is nine years old. Mohammed came together and had this marriage and united with a nine year old girl in bed when he was in his fifties and had sex with her. And this is by normalized today and defended by the traditional orthodox Muslim apologists and seen as not harmful, that is seen as a wholesome value, which is good according to them. I don't think I need to even cite any sources for this. If you open any regular book of our time, the sources are abundant in terms of how child marriage is harmful to the child and to society in general. Islam has slavery, which is not like in like in the Bible. Okay, it condones slavery. No, in Islam, slavery is directly universally condoned and commanded. If in the future an Islamic state was established again, slavery would come back. And through fighting the disbelievers, there would be an influx of slavery and sex slavery. And on top of that, again, Islam is a source of ignorance regarding the scientific world, the natural world around us, the physical world. Islam tells things such as that the sun goes somewhere at night, praise to Allah, asked for permission to rise again and will rise again in the morning, and so on. In so far, I would say that Islam is harmful intellectually. Islam is harmful to women, to people who think for themselves to apostates, to disbelievers, and even to Muslims to themselves. And Islam is by our definitions and by the definition of the average human population that is not inflicted by Islam, harmful and extremist. In so far, I would say, if we had an idea that turned out to be dangerous and harmful to 95% and we see that with things that I just said are in alignment with Islam, in the Islamic history to 95% of what Islamic scholars say and how people practice practice Islam. If we had these statistics about any other ideology about any other belief, we would say no doubt, it is harmful, it is bad, it is dangerous. We wouldn't look at the 5% or 1% that have a different interpretation of this idea. It would say it is harmful. In so far, I can say Islam is harmful. I can say Islam is not only represented by extremists, Islam is extremist. And finally, all I want to say is stay away from Islam. Thank you. You got to thank you very much for that opening statement. Apostate Prophet and want to let you know folks, if it's your first time here at Modern Day Debate, we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. And we hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from. As at Modern Day Debate, we strive to be a neutral channel and want to welcome everybody with that. We're going to kick it over to the perfect Dawah. Thanks for being with us. It's a pleasure to have you. And the floor is yours for your opening statement as well. Yeah, thank you very much, James for giving me this opportunity. And thank you, AP, to have this conversation with me. And I would like to say that there are two different, you know, extremist means that the text is there and they go too extreme according to that text, but which is absolutely wrong. I say that there are the wrong interpretation and wrong understanding of Islam by this extremist or if you call them these backwards, you know, Muslims like Harir Adjub and I wish one day I can discuss with him and show how, you know, uneducated he is in Islam. And I would like to say one more things as well that we have to try to support for the sake of humanity, for the sake of, you know, those people who might be killed by these extremists, you know, that we have to support those who talk against such a wrong ideas, wrong beliefs like killing apostates. Okay, I had a discussion with AP a few days ago, and I explained there if I don't want to talk about that much now, I just saved a little bit. And those who would like to know what we were talking about, my ideal world, they can watch there or my channel as well, the coffee is there also, the perfect double by the way anybody who would like to talk to me from audience tomorrow, seven o'clock Central European Times, 7pm, I would have a live stream and they are welcome. But anyway, Islam came to, you know, to establish peace and love and get rid of all problems. The source of all problems in Abrahamic religion is Satan, I say very fast. Satan for me is the jungle we are living in where, you know, the rules of this jungle is the strongest one get the most and the biggest one get the least. And for that, everybody do commit a lot of crimes, even they use religion to become richer and richer. And a lot of these extremist scholars, they just, you know, preach such extreme ideas, or even they just follow them, because they are afraid of their busyness. And you said a lot of things, my brother read one about killing apostate. In Islam, we cannot, in Islam that I have learned, we cannot kill even a murderer. Okay, because everybody have the right to repent, everybody. And that right in Quran is, you know, the time Quran mentioned that if you repent, when you are dying, Allah will not accept you or in the state of Kof. So this disbelief that I talked to you as well, that they translate Kof as disbelief is absolutely wrong. Because Quran chapter 16 verse 83 says they recognize the favor of Allah, they and then they deny it. And most of them are kafir. So the Quran is talking about these believers, but most of them are kafir. And there are many chapter three verse 57. But as for those who believe and deed righteous deeds, he will give them in full their rewards. And Allah does not like the oppressors. Chapter four, verse 18, whoever repentance is not accepted from those. Sorry, I forgot. Yeah, yeah, chapter two verse 254. Sorry. Oh, you who have believed spend from that which we have provided for you before there comes a day in which there is no exchange and no friendship and no intercession. And the kuffar, they are the oppressors. So there are lots of verses in Quran that indicate that kuffar are oppressors. So kuffar can be Taliban, ISIS, who oppress people. Allah doesn't like oppressors. Allah tried to get rid of the oppression. So I have no right because I am myself, a former apostate, if you have called me at the age of 25, I decided that God doesn't exist. If somebody, you know, I even wrote to this. Dr. Philip, he's a scholar that he what is the sentence for apostasy, he sent me that fabricated at least that it is death. And I wrote on his page that thanks God that I wasn't judged by you and your followers and Buhari followers. So I couldn't live, survive and learn and then convert to Islam. He blocked me instead say, Oh, sorry, we are wrong. You know, these scholars, unfortunately, as I said, they are a bunch of businessmen. And they say even Allah has hands, he has two right sides. You see how, you know, ignorant they are, and these people are going to, you know, guide, unfortunately guide Muslims. And many people who don't have time to read to research themselves. They unfortunately just think that these people are, you know, knowledgeable in Islam. But those fighting as well, I have said to you is always Quran says that as long as they fight when they stop fighting, you stop fighting too. So we have no right to fight those who don't fight us. Allah says in chapter 60 verse 80 60, I have to bring it says that Allah does not chapter 60 verse eight, Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes. For from being righteous towards them and acting justly towards them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. So there are lots of verses I can read, but it takes time that Allah, you know, tells us to be just towards even non disbelievers. So even in those verses is just only during the war time. And, you know, you were talking about Sharia law as well before with this Daniel have to death penalty. As I said, there is no death penalty in true Islam, even for murderers, because many of companion of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, where previous killers, they were killing his companions. But when they, you know, they converted to Islam, they were forgiven totally in today's standards and laws. If somebody in the West killed somebody, no matter if you repent, if you convert to anything, you have to spend many years in jail. But in Islam, we have this opportunity, and we have no right to take this opportunity from anyone, even a murderer. So because punishment is only on Allah's side. There are lots of verses as well that says to his own prophet that, oh, Muhammad, you just deliver the message. Okay. And many of those, of course, hadith is that you, you know, said, unfortunately, they are, you know, fabricated. Because, as I said, one more things I would like to say is that I wish that one day you say that there is, because imagine that an ISIS, you know, a follower, keeping a knife on your neck, and I'm trying to save you and say that this is not Islam. This is wrong. Would you say that? No. The perfect devil is wrong. Islam is what ISIS says. So kill me. Definitely you will not say, okay. So if what I'm saying doesn't make sense at all, yeah, okay, I understand you. But when it makes sense as well, you should say that there are two different interpretation or understanding of Islam. Okay. And this is nice. This is beautiful. Because I say that in Islam, we have no right even to punish people. Because, you know, Allah knows that this jungle, which I explained for you, first of all, some people commit bad deeds because they don't understand it. Allah knows that. Out of ignorance, they do that. Some people, they do it because they are forced because, you know, they have to survive. And some people do it because they are guided by this jungle and its rules, fool them and guide them to this, you know, all these bad deeds. So the final message of God, the perfect message of God, the miracle of God is not to come, send a message and punish us for what we do in especially in a brutal, diabetic way. Note that the perfect message is that to get rid of the source, which is the devil and one day Quran Islam will get rid of the devil, which is the source of all bad deeds, which I said as well that that devil is nothing but this jungle and its rules. And we have to get out of this jungle, live in a human world, love one another, share with each other, everything. All right, I would, I would, I think that so far is, you know, yeah. You got it. Thank you very much for that opening as well. And want to let you know, folks, if you haven't already hit that subscribe button as we have many more juicy debates to come. For example, at the bottom right of your screen, we're very excited. Stephan Malinu and Destiny meet for the first time. That's later this month. With that, thank you very much, Apostle Prophet and the perfect Dawah. The floor is all yours for open conversation. I want to say a few things, which is first off, I want to say that two things that you said toward the very end are very telling. One of them is that terrible people convert to Islam, people who did terrible things such as, you know, murder and all the all the bad stuff, they convert to Islam. And after they convert to Islam, they are forgiven for their past evil. And this, I think is very telling, because Islam doesn't Islam just forgives people who did terrible things. But funnily enough, you take this from Islamic sources, but you don't take it to consideration that the same sources also tell us that the Muslims after people converted to Islam judged them for very simple things such as leaving Islam or even for adultery, let's say, and killed them and adultery is nowhere near as murder. The other thing that is very telling is that you said if I if an ISIS guy held a knife to my to my neck, and you came to save me, then I would say, No, your interpretation of Islam is the true Islam, just so I could survive. That means I would lie. I would lie in that moment to save my own life. I would lie and say, No, your interpretation is right. This guy's interpretation is wrong. That would be a lie. And honestly, I would like to be a hero right now and say I wouldn't do that. I would I would still say the ISIS guy has the right, the more correct interpretation of Islam. But as I said, it would be a life. I said your interpretation is right. I want to be very blunt. I'm sorry to say this, but I think your Islam is based on complete nonsense. No offense to you personally. It is complete nonsense. It is completely baseless. It is not based on any proper scripture, not based on any understanding of Islam that has been adopted by 99 percent of Muslims in Islamic history. It is merely based on what you wish for the world. And it is an appeal to emotions. It is unfounded on proper sources. Not sure if you want to comment on that, but yes, yeah, I would like to comment. You said that I forgot because I was going to find some verses of Quran because you said that ah, yeah, yeah, you said that the same source said this. Okay, these things. But you have to know that Quran says in chapter four, verse 80 to 83, it says that if, you know, about hadith that says that there were Hippocrates who were coming out of the Prophet Muhammad's lecture and they were saying things about Prophet Muhammad that they were not true. And to find out, what is it? To find out if it is from your Lord, you have to match them with Quran. So anything that goes against Quran from these. Quran doesn't say that anywhere. There is no such. No, chapter four verse 80 to 83. I can bring it up for you if you want. Okay. If you just a moment. It would be nice if you quoted these things while you talk about them, but the Quran doesn't ever ever talk about hadith. The Quran wouldn't. And the Quran never says that people make up lies and that when you later read the reports about Muhammad, you should, you know, compare them to the Quran. This is not a thing that exists in Islam. I mean, what you are doing is basically you are looking at certain Islamic sources about you are looking at reports about Muhammad, and then you are judging based on your own whims based on your understanding. You are going against the consensus and the scholarship, the 1400 year old scholarship of Islam, which took many of these things into consideration. You say, no, they are all wrong. I am actually right about what Islam really says because this doesn't make sense to me. This does make sense to me. This looks compassionate. This doesn't look compassionate. Well, the good news is Islam is not meant to be compassionate. Islam is violent. Islam is intolerant. Islam is horrible. Islam is the religion which in its scripture clearly says that those who disbelieve are the worst of creatures. They are less than cattle. They are horrible disbelievers. You should fight. Okay. Okay. I know that you had that verse. This is nonsense. Yeah. But you use all the time and go to the interpretation and, you know, translation or interpretation of those extremists. I read for you the verse of Quran that says that most of them are Qufar. Most disbelievers are Qufar. And I read for you that what is it? I read for you that Qufar are oppressors. So it is not Quran doesn't say the what is it? The disbelievers are worst creatures. Okay. Read to me 572. Quran chapter 5472. Read it to me. Or I can read it to you. Yes. It says surely the disbelievers, Qufar, are those who say Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary, while the Messiah said, Oh, children of Israel, did I ask you to worship me? And so on. And their shelter will be hellfire and no supporter will be there for them. What does it say? It's who are the disbelievers, according to this verse. Okay. Because, you know, the Quf is covering the truth. Okay. But Allah doesn't punish you for minor sins. Okay. Okay. Can you answer the question? Who are the disbelievers, according to this verse? Can you please read it again? The disbelievers are those who say Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary. The Qufar. Okay. Yeah. Who are the, who are the disbelievers? After I read it again, okay, I have to read it myself. Then open it right now and read it because this earth destroys everything that you're saying. Quran chapter chapter 9, chapter sorry, Quran chapter 5 verse 72, it says, Indeed, those who say Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary, are Qufar disbelievers. The same word, Qufar disbelief. They are the disbelievers. According to this verse, who are disbelievers? 72 Yes. 72. Okay. But yes, I understand. But I say that Allah doesn't say that he's going to, or we have to punish people for, you know, believing that Mary, Maryam is son of, what is it, son of God. And there are many verses in Quran that says that Christians are not all the same. Okay. Some of them stand firm in, okay, say all people of the book. This is chapter 5 verse 68. You have no ground to stand up unless you firmly stand by Torah and Gospel and all the revelation and just a second. Okay. I miss where you answered the question. According to chapter 5 verse 72, who are the disbelievers? I said that, how about this one? Chapter, what do you think yourself? Okay. Chapter 9 verse, chapter 16 verse 83. Okay. But can you please answer my question before we go further? According to chapter 5 verse 72, who are the disbelievers? So the, the Quf, as I said, is also covering the, the truth. Okay. So why don't you answer the question? Who are the disbelievers? It's the Quf against Allah. But we have no right to punish them. And Allah will judge them. So your judge can you, can you just answer the question? It's very simple. According to chapter 5 verse 72, who are the disbelievers? Those who say that according that verse, those who say that Allah, Jesus is Son of God. Yes. Thank you. Do you think the Quran is lying to us according about who the, the, the Qufar are, who these believers are? Do you think it's a lie what the Quran says here? No, it's not a lie. It's the way that Allah was revealing his message to the people. Okay. And Quran is not one verse. Okay. Quran is a lot of verses. Other side Allah says that those say all people of the book do not go to extreme to your, but just a moment, there are many verses. You're telling us the Quran says those who say Allah is the Messiah, the Son of Mary are disbelievers. The Quran says that, but we should just ignore that. We should just look at a different part where it says the disbelievers are those who oppress people. And then we should therefore conclude that only the oppressors are disbelievers, not those who have different beliefs. No, I say that this is the way he was talking to people. Okay. That this is wrong. Okay. I'm sorry, that is complete nonsense. All right. Chapter 3 verse 113. Not all of them are alike of the people of the book are a portion that stand for the right. They rehearse the verse of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adortion. So Quran clearly in many places distinguish between Christians, those who are doing good. And not only that, as I said, this is that what I have learned from Quran, that you can be even disbelievers absolutely, you know, don't believe in God. But when, you know, do good deeds, you enter paradise. There was even a discussion about there was a, I think a scholar was talking about this Mahatma Gandhi. And I mentioned myself to you. Which scholar? I don't remember. But anyway, there are scholars. One of them is, his name was, you know, he was killed many years ago. His name was Dr. Shaniati. Okay. He's Iranian. He was an Iranian, you know, scholar that he was saying that a heretic, according to the Islamic consensus, he was saying that he was saying as well that Mahatma Gandhi was a much better human being in front of Allah than a lot of scholars who, you know, whose teachings goes against Quran and Quran's teachings. So Mahatma Gandhi who said, this is, I tell you that I can read a lot of verses of Quran. I have them, but I don't know if we get the time for that. Okay. Here's a problem. You are giving me an example of somebody who is considered a heretic by the Islamic community, by the Muslim community, by 95% of Muslims in history. I don't really care to be very honest, to be very blind. I don't care what some Shariati says, who is against the, who is a counter-revolutionary in Iran, which is a political matter. You, we have clearly acknowledged just now that the Quran describes as disbelievers those who say Allah is the Messiah. So the Messiah is God. We can look at Quran chapter two, verse six, where it says surely those who disbelieve, no matter if you warn them or not, they will not believe. This is clearly in context to of those who believe in the Quran or don't believe in the Quran. You are acknowledging that the Quran describes those who have different beliefs as disbelievers, but you want to ignore this and say, well, in a different part, it says oppressors are disbelievers. Therefore, we should just look at that. All right, okay. Now, are you saying the Quran contradicts itself and only one of these things is true? No, it is the matter of understanding, okay, interpretation chapter 98. Okay, you are just one person who interprets the Quran as he wishes. We have, we have Islamic history of people interpreting these things and understanding them forever. And people have out of good reasons. Look, look, if I tell you, if I tell you, disbelievers are those who steal my shoes. And then I also tell you, disbelievers are those who disagree with my views, then you cannot come and say, okay, those who disagree are not disbelievers, only those who steal his shoes are disbelievers. No, you would take this into consideration and say, okay, well, according to his very clear words, both those who steal his shoes and those who disagree with him are disbelievers. And that's what the Quran does. The Quran says those who disbelieve, those who have different beliefs are disbelievers. Kufr, that's very much acknowledged even according to non Islamic and Islamic scholars, and those who oppress people, oppress meaning simply to, you know, repel Islam are disbelievers. And according to the Quran, disbelievers are the worst of creatures less than cattle and they should be fought. This is very clear. Okay. As I said, chapter 91 verse one, those who committed kufr among the people of the scripture and the police did not give up the kufr until there came to them clear evidence. So those among, okay, people of the book. So people of the book, they are all these deliverers. Okay. I never said that. No, because you said that because all of them, they say that Jesus was son of God. Okay, they are either all of them are kufr, okay, or and none of them is when it says that among them means that there are among them who are not kufr. Yeah, because that's what the Muslims thought. And that's what the Islamic tradition tells us within the centuries of Islam's emergence, because people thought not all Christians agree that Jesus is the son of God, or that Jesus is God. Some don't agree. And it was Islam's approach that those who are Christians without disbelief or those were Christians before Mohammed arrives are good, whereas those who are still Christians and who still believe in the divinity of Jesus and that he's a son of God are disbelievers after the arrival of Islam. This is a very clear thing that has been solved in the within the timeframe of the emergence of the of Islam. This is not something new. It's not a contradiction. Yes, my brother. Quran chapter three verse seven clearly says that it is he who sent a send down to you, Oh, Muhammad the book in it are verses that are precise. They are the foundation of the book and others are on specific as for those in whose heart is deviation from true, they will follow that of it, which is on specific. Okay. Seeking just let me finish it, please. Seeking discord and seeking and interpretation suitable to them to them. Okay. And no one knows it's true interpretation except Allah and those fear in knowledge. But people with deviation in the heart say we believe in it. All of it is from our Lord and no one will be reminded except those. So Allah only Allah knows these unspecific verses of Quran and those fear me knowledge. Okay. So how those fear in knowledge understand them? True meaning of a verse. You have the true meaning. No, just a minute, please. They put these verses. Okay. How do you know? How do you know that the true meaning of this verse, if you're filming knowledge, you have to put them beside other verses of Quran. Okay. Okay. So, so chapter three, sorry, five verse 38, what it says? Which one? Chapter five verse 38. Chapter five verse 38. Let's see what it says. Chapter five verse 38. Chapter five verse 38 of as for a woman and as for a man and a woman who commits theft, cut off the hands of both to punish them for what they earned. Is this what you're talking about? Editorial punishment from Allah. Yeah. So you think that Allah says to chop their hearts? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay. Very clear. But this is the problem that, you know, as I said, those scholars like those, I don't know, even he's a scholar or not, these ignorant scholars who think that Allah has two hands. Okay. Because Allah in another chapter says that Allah the Jews try to tie Allah's hands. Their own hands is tied. Okay. So they think that hands is physical in this chapter. 120 times hands has been used in Quran in different meanings. So let me bring for you. So you're telling us that when the Quran says, as for the thieves cut off their hands, it doesn't actually tell us to cut off the hands of the thieves. It is actually a metaphorical. Yes, you should understand. Okay. Hand has been used in Quran in 120 times. Okay. What does it mean? Just what does it mean instead? What does it right up to five first three to eight meaning instead? It means that because I said this to Farid. Okay. Farid, I could talk to him just few minutes, because next verse explaining it very well says that and if they repel, Allah forgives them. Okay. So I said that how can it be possible that you punish somebody and then that person in a chop hack their hands and then that person you have already is like that I passed a red light. The officer catch me and then he take my driving license and he write me a thousand dollars ticket and I say, Oh, officer, please forgive me. I repent. And then officer say, Okay, go and get your I will I forgive you, but you have to go and get new driving license and you have to pay that thousand dollars ticket. You know, it doesn't make sense. Okay. That's not a logic that's not a logical contradiction. I can have somebody come to me. That person may, you know, punch me and hurt me and shoot me. And I can go and press charges for that and have the justice done. And after we are through it, I can say, Hey, you know what? What is past is past. I forgive you and I hope I hope for a better future. There is no contradiction in that in this one that the Quran says cut off their hands. And after that, if they repent, Allah forgives them. There is no contradiction here at all. Yeah, why you say that it says cut off their hands? Do you read Arabic? I understand. I understand what is being said. We don't have to read Arabic to understand what is being said. Now, what is being said? Can you tell me? It says the Katol Yatia. Can you read that exact that those words now we want to get to read Arabic? Is that we have to read Arabic to understand what the Quran. No, no, no, I'm not going to tell me the exact word that it says, you know, separate. That's what it says. No, no, it says that it says that faqat ayyadah. Yeah, now chapter 12 verse 31. Can you read that for please and see how they translate that five verse 31. No, chapter 12 verse 31. OK, can you read that one? What is how they have translated? So when she heard of their scheming, she sent for them and prepared for them a banquet and gave each one of them a knife and said come out before them. And when they saw him, they greatly admired him and cut their hands and said, perfect is Allah. This is not a man. It's it's not it's not but a noble angel. So what's the problem here? So the problem is that here also use exact word that will be okay. It's exactly like the one which I the crucifixion that I brought you another part that. Yeah, according to the scholarly interpretation, these people out of excitement actually literally cut their own hands. There is no. No, just a second. Here is just they cut their one hand. It doesn't make sense that you're peeling a fruit and you chop both your hands. It doesn't make sense. OK, so what here? They say they cut their hands and then it doesn't make sense that after they cut their hands, they didn't scream. They were so, you know, partial. They were so romantic. There were no words about AP. Please. What is the problem? I don't understand the problem. Why are we talking about both hands? They cut their hands out of excitement. What is the problem? They didn't cut. They just stop. They just stop peeling. OK, it is stop and action. OK, they stop peeling and said, oh, price be to Lord. Wow, such a, you know, handsome guy. OK, that sounds that sounds great. But what does what does what does chapter five, verse thirty eight tell us when it's when it tells us to cut the hands of the female? It doesn't say cut. It says stop their action. Stop their way of stealing. And if they repent, Allah forgives them. OK, and next one says that didn't you didn't you know? I'm sorry, that is complete nonsense. I mean, the the the verse says cut off as in separate. We have the same word. We have the same word used through the Quran. It is the same word actually doesn't appear in that other word. What is that separate cut? It appears in many parts of the Quran. I don't want to go into what the origins of cut are. OK, it says cut off the hands and we have hands, which literally we refer to hands. I don't know why you came up with the interpretation of talking about both hands or just one hand. It says cut off their hands. It tells us that when thieves come, we should cut off their hands. According to this, the Islamic law and the Islamic rule and how much does it say for how much? I don't care. That's completely irrelevant. I don't care. I don't care how much according to the Islamic law and the Islamic hadith and Islamic understanding. This was applied because of the Quran and the hands of thieves were cut off in many reports and in many classical books of Islamic law. Now, you are coming with an understanding and saying, well, this is actually metaphorical. I'm sorry, you're using a Quran verse which says some verses are ambiguous. Some verses are clear and you're saying your understanding is of course clear and the understanding of 99 percent of Muslims is actually wrong. How? Who decides that? That's very convenient. I could say that according to that verse, you are reading the wrong interpretation. I am reading the right interpretation and I'm sorry to say this, but 99 percent of Muslims and scholars happen to agree with me, not with you because they are looking at the facts and they are not leaving it up to you who tries to make this extreme religion non-extreme with his 21st century anti-Iranian interpretations of the Quran. Okay. You know that unfortunately, many of those people, okay, they don't, you know, they don't themselves research and pounder or such a thing. And the chapter... You are telling me that Islamic scholars of the 1,400 years have not researched this matter. No, I say that these, the people, okay, who follow them, okay, they just follow blindly because they think like... What is it? The Harry Sultan said that he had a friend, okay. And before he was saying that there is no wife beating, there is no this and that. When he heard, how did that do? Then he changed his mind because this person, he really didn't know Islam and he was waiting for how to do to, you know, teaching. So what I'm saying is that... I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. Okay. You were a Muslim before, okay, yourself, okay? Or you believe that this, do you think really when Allah says that they try to tie Allah's hands, Allah has hands? Do you think at all... I don't believe Allah exists. No, no, if you were a Muslim, no. No, if you were a Muslim, okay? Do you think it makes sense when Allah says that nothing is like Allah? Then these people, these scholars say that, yeah, Allah has hands, he has two rights, okay? This is what Quran says. They don't think that... That is a completely different theological matter. And you are now appealing to a theological discussion where the Muslim scholars have actually been divided for a long time on whether they should take this literally on whether they should look at the apparent meaning or whether this should be entirely metaphorical. This is completely unrelated to the matter. This is a theological discussion where even the traditionalists who vastly agreed upon cutting the hands of thieves, by the way, disagreed upon. Because this is a theological matter. This is completely different. Yes, I said, I read for you three, seven, okay? Allah says don't follow if you don't understand it, okay? Don't go for the verse that you don't understand the true meaning because Allah cannot keep... Okay, all the bad things in the Quran are apparently misinterpretations and we are just supposed to look at the true meaning which is not what the Quran actually says, but what we somehow want to understand because we love Islam. I'm sorry, but that's a very care bearer world understanding of what Islam is. Okay, but if you have to follow Islam then you have to take Quran first, okay? And those report that you said, okay? You report you said. They say also that Prophet Muhammad stoned people to death, which is absolutely trash, okay? Because nowhere in Quran says that those people who inserted this barbaric act in Bible and Torah, okay? The stoning of adulterers, they tried to do it with Quran and because they couldn't do that. So they came and lied about Quran that this verse was eaten by goat and this doesn't make sense for somebody who has brain and teeth, okay? And I would like to again... Anybody can say that. I'm sorry, look, I really understand where you're coming from and I really understand your passion for a compassionate, good version of Islam. And I really wish, I'm serious, I really wish that in 1,400 years of Islamic studies and Islamic scholarship and Islamic history, the vast majority of Muslims and Muslim scholars had employed the way of thinking that you have about Islam. The problem is they did not do this. Even if we did grant that the vast majority of Muslims took these things wrongly, they misunderstood everything and your interpretation is somehow right. I'm not only the one, I'm not the only one. Yeah, there are two other people, okay? But the issue is... I don't have the two other people. I told you I'm sorry. The issue is... I'm only an organization, okay? It isn't terrorist activities, we know that, okay? Here is the issue. But what you said, Redman, what you said? You said terrorist? Whatever it is that engage in organizations in political militant activism against Iran. I don't really care about that. You're not against Iran, they are Iranian, against Iranian fascist terrorist regime. Okay, Iran's government, whatever. It's completely besides the point. The issue is even if you were right, even if 95% of Muslims had understood everything the completely wrong way, which is absurd to me, to be very honest. I'm sorry to say, it doesn't matter. We would still have to say Islam is harmful, Islam is extremist. Obviously, if 95% of Muslims misunderstand the Islamic religion and turn it into something abhorrent, and you agree that it is abhorrent, then we have to say it is harmful. I'm sorry, but I can't take... No, Islam is not. ...the five percent. No, no, no. Your Islam is not. Exactly. Exactly, your Islam is not. I'm sorry, but Islam is not your... Islam is not your Islam. Islam is what we have. I'm fighting them. By the right one, I said... Good luck, good luck. Yes, I'm fighting them. My organization, we are fighting them. 42 years, we have lost hundreds of thousands of people. Okay, so we are fighting this Taliban, ISIS, Iranian fascist regime. And then this cut, which is cut, also is used in Quran 34 times, chapter 2, 166. Cut, which is cut, means cutting a relation, okay? You cannot... And then stealing, Sareb, right one, is also used in different way in Quran. Stealing information is also mentioned in Quran, that it is surat, okay? It's stealing. So you have to cut their ear. No, this goes against the precise verses of Quran, that it is not justice. As I said that Allah says that I forgive them if they repent. Even if you are a disbeliever, okay? And you repent what? You repent to Allah, means that you are going to be Muslim. If you don't have hands, how you are going to make the abolition, how you are going to pray, all these things. So Allah, how you are going to battle? I'm sorry that I say that. Allah would never allow you, okay? Never allow me, or a backward like uneducated, or caveman from Afghanistan, you know? This Taliban, or this, what is it? Hadid Ghaju, to chop your hands, because when you, because as I said, even if there is a punishment, it should be reversible, okay? Because you have the right to repent. And you cannot repent if you have already been punished for what you have done. And they cannot say that. Moji, if I kill a man, and I go before the court, and the court judges that I have wrongfully killed a man, and I now have to serve a prison sentence, and I also have to pay fines and this and that. But then I go to the family of the person that I killed and say, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Please forgive me for what I have done. And I acknowledge my fault and my punishment. And they say, we forgive you. Does that mean, oh, you forgive me? Oh, great. Okay, then I don't have to go to the prison and I can take all the money back that I have to pay. Do you think that's how it works? That's not how it works. If they say I forgive you, what they mean is just, okay, you are forgiven for your past crime, for which you have to pay, because that's how things will get into order. You are forgiven for that. Unfortunately, you still have to serve your sentence. So you are for punishment, okay? But I'm not for punishment. I say that because people do bad deeds by mistake or they are forced to. So we have to get rid of the source and people, because many times we can be wrong. We execute people who are not, even a few months ago, I saw two Americans who were released after 47 years, I think, to black Americans who spent 47 years in jail despite they were innocent. So Allah does not, will not put this task on us to punish people wrongly. That's very cute. The wrongly. So what we have to do is to first to get rid of the source of the all bad deeds. I will read for you from here. That's very cute, but I'm sorry. I just have to, I just think that we will be stuck with this point forever because I don't think, I don't think anybody wants to agree here that that is actually the interpretation of how things are. If you want to believe that this cannot be true because Allah is merciful and Allah is beautiful and cute and all that, that's very nice, but I'm sorry, Allah doesn't exist. And we have to judge the Islamic scripture as it is, not as you want to believe it is. Okay, just one more things I have to say that because I learned is loud from, this is exactly matches Koran. Ali radhullah writes to his governor of Egypt, people do bad deeds because of different reasons, intentionally or by mistake, but you forgive them as you expect that your God forgives your bad deeds. You are stronger than the people, but remember that the one who puts you there is a stronger than you. God is stronger than the one who puts you. The worst people for you must be those who try to reveal people's mistake and sins because people make mistakes and sins and the governor is the one who must cover them. Do not try to find out people's mistake because your duty is to fix the problems. That's, just a moment, please. It's a very long quote, I can't read the whole book. Finish, finish, people to bad deeds. And it is God's right to judge people, not yours. This is exactly what I have learned from Koran, as well as says to his own prophet. Cover people's mistakes and sins as much as you can so that God covers yours. So I am not coming up with these things, my brother. These are things that has been in Islam, but not that ISIS Islam, okay? If I now tell you that Ali also burned people, he will tell me, oh, that's fake, that never happened. Although we have clear evidence for that. So I clear out, yes, you have clear evidence, yes? So now I will tell you that, yes? I want to ask you a question about what you just said. You say Allah forgives you and forgives you for your sins and all that, we should also be like Allah. When the Koran tells us that if we say the Messiah is Allah or if we hold different beliefs, then our eternal abode will be hellfire. Does that mean Allah forgives us for our sins? Allah says that if I, Allah says also, if I forgive a portion of them, kufar, okay? I will not forgive another, you know, a portion of them. Okay, okay. Because they are oppressors. Okay, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Those who are not forgiven, Allah does not forgive them, right? Those who are, because I was looking for something, you were talking about kufar or what? Or disbelief? It doesn't matter, there's a certain group of people, let's say, or there is a part of the population that Allah will not forgive. And according to the Koran, it explicitly says their eternal abode will be hell and there will be no help for them. So Allah ends up not forgiving people, right? Yes, of course, some people. Okay, so they will have eternal punishment. So you, but you want to tell me that? Okay, eternal, we are not God to know how much is that eternal, but people like Adolf Hitler, Khomeini, these people. Well, I'm pretty sure the Koran says that those who say, for example, Allah is the third of three or Allah is the son of Mary, they will go to hell and they will stay there forever. I mean, it's very clear that these people who disbelieve will go and burn forever in hell for simply having different beliefs. Or let's say if it's about oppressors, let's say those people were oppressors, which is why they will go to hell and stay there forever. But obviously the Koran tells us that Allah will judge people and will be unforgiving about their sins. Certain people, certain people. Yeah, so Allah does not do what you just told us Allah would do. Allah will judge many people and will unforgivingly punish them forever. Allah will judge people. So why are you then saying even Allah forgives us for our sins and for our deeds, which is why we should forgive people, we should cover people's sins, we should cover people's faults and we should be all forgiving basically and leave the judgment to Allah. I mean, we clearly see we can't make this comparison because even Allah himself is unforgiving. Yes, because as I said, he's the best judge, okay? And he knows who to forgive and who to punish, okay? We might punish people who have done something. You know, maybe you killed somebody, okay? But at that moment, we don't know what was going on in your head. You were totally crazy, but after you kill that person, later you change, you say, oh my God, why? Or you were 20 years old or 22 years old, later when you grow up, then you realize that you were wrong. Like I said that I was 25, I became eight years. I could do many things, you know? But later I realized I was wrong and I changed, okay? So we are not the right judge to judge people. What I'm saying is that Islam came to get rid of the source so that people don't do bad deeds, okay? If I was, I say that we have to, I say that we have to create the same possibility that I have had for the person who is in Colombia is born in a drug dealer family and he has tattoo everywhere and he has gone and gone around and killed people. If I was also born there, I would be the same, okay? So let's, I say let's provide the same opportunity to everybody instead of punishing people. This is what I have learned from Quran and I can read for you many verses. Yeah, you told us that this is the Quran that you, or this is the Islam that you learned. You said this is the Islam that I learned. It doesn't punish people, it doesn't kill apostates and this and that. I'm sorry, you learned a version of Islam. I don't think it really matters what kind of Islam you learned it, who you learned it from. You probably learned it from certain people who think like you and that is very convenient, but that's not really Islam or the Islam that we as an international community take into consideration. The Islam that you want to see, yes, that's not it. No, no, no, no, no, no. I would love to see a peaceful Islam. The issue is that Islam is not the Islam that we are confronted, the Islam that we are confronted with is- We are trying to create- I highly doubt it, but good luck with that. You are saying that extremists like Daniel Hikichu and people who agree with him and Farid and all the others, and these are the loud and the vast majority of Muslims. You say they are extremists and you are the real Muslim, you are the real Islam. I'm sorry to say that it's also baseless based on your own wishes and it's nonsensical. I said that they miss you to portray the Quran, miss understanding- And you interpreted it correctly. I'm sorry, that's nonsense. You say, you still haven't shown us and you won't be able to show us the contradiction in the Quran between those who have different beliefs, they are disbelievers. You say those who oppress people are instead disbelievers, but you have not been able to present that. Your disbelievers, those who oppress people are Khufar, okay? Those who oppress- Khufar in the Quran is the translation for disbelievers. Khufar in the Quran, okay, Khufar in the Quran in chapter five verse 72, as I mentioned earlier, is explicitly used for those who believe that Jesus is God and the Quran says they are Khufar, those who say Jesus is God. The Quran further says in two other verses that those who are Khufar are the worst of creatures. It says those who are Khufar are cattle, indeed they are less than cattle. So when I say worst of creatures, we should take us into consideration what this actually means. The Quran tells us, the Quran tells you and me and all others out there who are disbelievers, who are Khufar, who don't believe in what Islam believes in, that we are not the worst of humans, that we are not just worse than Muslims. It tells us we are worse than any creation that Allah has accomplished according to the Islamic idea. We are worse than dogs, worse than cats, worse than worms, worse than maggots, worse than cockroaches. We are the worst of creation according to the Quran. Unfortunately, Muji wants to tell us, oh, that's just a misunderstanding, it's different, but I'm sorry, that is completely baseless. Well, it says in chapter 98 verse 6 says, indeed they who committed Khufar among the people of this creature and the polyesters will be in the fire of hell, abiding entirely during those are the worst creature. So again, it says those who committed Khufar amount not all, okay? So you again, it's misinterpretation of the word Khuf, okay? So it's amount not all, not- And that again is because the Quran depicts those disbelievers or those people of the scripture who came before Muhammad as righteous or who believed in one God as righteous, whereas those who came after Muhammad and rejected Muhammad as disbelievers, as Khufar, as kafir, and those kafirs, those Christians that we have today, 99% of Christians that we have today are kafir according to the Quran because they disbelieve, because they believe that Jesus is the Son of God and God, and they are kafir, they are the worst of creatures, they are less than cockroaches and they should be fought. That's what it says. The Jews that we have today are cockroaches, less than cockroaches. The atheists and apostates that we have today and polytheists that we have today according to the Quran are less than cockroaches. That's what the Quran is, that's what the Quran says, that's what the majority of Muslims agree upon. And nowhere in Quran says that go fight those who don't fight you. This is fight those who fight you, okay? And then again, chapter three verse seven says that you go after those unspecific verses and take your own interpretation and the interpretation which suits your agenda and want to say that, yeah, it is like this, but unfortunately, or fortunately, I have learned a different Islam. I have a lot of verses of Quran I could read for you that for example, you said Ali burned people. I told you that if the psychologists see these two different statements would say that no, these are not the same people, okay? Somebody who is so mercy go and burn people just because they disbelieve, okay? So these are his own words. And Quran says that if you punish people, punish them with the equal punishment that you have been harmed. So just if you are disbelieved, I go and burn you. How do you harm me? Did you burn me? No, these are things that goes, I have a lot of verses of course I can read for you. And the Quran doesn't say that you should fight only those who fought you. That's the Quran says that you should be just toward those who did not drive you out and warn you. But again, we talked about this before, justice is a subjective, it has to be defined. In Quran chapter nine, verse 28, it says that you should keep away the polytheists from your holy places because they are filthy. Then upon that, afterward, it explicitly says in Quran chapter nine, verse 29, fight those who don't believe in Allah in the last days who don't adopt the true religion from those who have believed, fight until they are subjugated. Further, in the next verse, it clarifies that the Christians say Jesus is the Son of God and the Jews say Ezra is the Son of God, which is complete nonsense. And may Allah destroy them. In this context, fight those who disbelieve. And Islamic scholars have agreed that this is a general verse of fighting against the disbelievers. Yeah, Quran chapter 16, verse 125 to 28, 128. Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction. And argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, so I have to invite you in this way, not I have to fight you and kill you, okay? So this, indeed your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from his way and he is most knowing of who is guided, okay? 2396, O Muhammad, Repel evil in the best manner. We are well aware of that they say about you. Quran 41, chapter 34. Good and evil cannot be equal. Respond to evil with what is best. Then the one you are in a fraud will be like a close friend. And I have a friend or brother from South Africa who thought that Islam is devil. His name is Martin. He's always on my channel. We talk, we are like brothers now, okay? So this is what I learned from Quran. And I wish that you also could help everybody so that we have a more peaceful, but what is wrong with this? I think we should entirely get rid of Islam because Islam is dangerous and harmful, as I said. I mean, look, here's the thing. You cannot counter these points by bringing up anecdotal evidence. And you cannot counter these points by preaching different things in the Quran that seem to be nice. The problem is you want to have a nice, peaceful, loving understanding of Islam. As I said, the care bear interpretation of Islam. And I like it. I wish that was Islam. The issue is even if we granted that you got it right and 95% got it wrong. I'm sorry, but yours is simply not prevailing. Yours emerged at the very beginning of Islam and it was always suppressed and defeated as the opposite side of extremism. And those who prevailed with the horrible Islam that we have today always called themselves the true ones, the moderates. And the Islamic scholarship has agreed with them forever. And if we look at the Quran, we clearly see why they were in the majority, why they agreed with each other because the Quran clearly tells people to fight those who disbelieve. It clearly tells people that those who disbelieve are less than cockroaches. It clearly says all of these things. Oh, fine, not disbelief. Yeah, we have already established what that is in reference to. The Quran says that those who believe that Jesus is Allah are Khufar. And it also says the Khufar are the worst of creatures. The vast majority of Christians we have today are people who believe that Jesus is God. So according to the Quran, they are Khufar and they are the worst of creatures. They are less than cockroaches. I'm sorry, you can try to reinterpret this as much as you want. And you can try to sell a beautiful and cute Islam as much as you want. And I would love to see a world where that is what Islam truly is. I'm sorry, but that's not what Islam is. The Islam that we have is the horrible Islam that you are apparently against and that I am apparently against. And that is the problem. That's why Islam is dangerous. That's why Islam is harmful. That's why it's extreme. And I talked to you, I said that without Islam, we cannot get out of this jungle and we will all... We can, we don't need Islam for this. We don't need Islam for this. But you don't even believe that the source of all problems is the jungle and it's rules. You don't even believe that, okay? But no, you don't. So how are you going to get rid of all these problems on this planet? That 1% of the world population, they try to become richer and richer. They spread all these conflicts and problems on the planet, okay? So as I said as well, you misunderstand certain verses of Quran, but the complete message, the complete message is that, of course, Allah knows that without everybody becoming Muslim and believing in Islam, we cannot reach that human world, okay? We have to live in this jungle with these jungle rules that everybody kill each other, everybody, because they want to be richer and richer. So that's why it's the best, the perfect way is that everybody believe that, yes, this is the problem, this is the source and that's the solution. I said the communists have the same idea and I could even argue that your understanding of Islam is a communist Islamic world view or a socialist Islam, I guess. Yeah, so. You can say yes, but the issue is the communist propaganda which tells us that we must arm and fight and overthrow the systems of the world which oppress the people, that this is the root of the problems and that communism is the solution. They have the same understanding. They say the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, which is not true, by the way. Humans are in general getting wealthier and more peaceful. The world is actually going to a better direction. I would not say that humans are inherently at fault and that we must fix ourselves through some weird seventh century ideology. I would say humans are merely beings that are not evil, not good, we are neutral. We are in a world where we try to survive and we try to use our functions in order to survive and to flourish as has been established in even in ancient Greece. And we try to find the proper means and try to find ways to live together in order to make our experience and each other's experience better nowadays through laws that we didn't have in the past. In the past, Islam, for example, came as a religion and tried to impose its laws which obviously didn't work and will not work today. We don't need a seventh century scripture. We don't need a seventh century understanding of laws in order to fix humanity. We simply need to find proper ways to live together, to understand each other, to help each other and ourselves flourish. Islam has nothing to offer the world. Islam has nothing good to offer the world. Islam cannot help the world. Islam cannot help me. It cannot help you. If we allow you to come here and sell Islam to humanity, then we will have the Daniela Hikikachus and the Islamic extremists who will also say that I should be killed and that Muslims are proud of that because I left Islam. I'm sorry, that's how it will work. I can give you the last word before we jump into the Q&A, perfect Dawa, as we originally had apostate prophet get us started. And so if you wanna take roughly the same amount of time that apostate prophet just took to wrap us up and then we'll jump into Q&A. Okay. Yes, I would like to say, first of all, about you were mentioning communism, say this and that. Yes, communism has right for me in most part, but I've told you as well that they would never be able to establish that human world because their words is from a man and Islam's words is from the creator, sorry, the creator and that the creator wants us to get rid of this jungle. The jungle is the satan, the devil and he has promised us that one day we will, one day we will live in that beautiful world. There are lots of evidences about that. The Mahdi will come and save us this Messiah and so on. So if anybody would like to ask direct questions, maybe talk to me more. They are welcome on my channel as well. I have live streams usually. But this is, I wish that you could, as I said, AP, if you could fix it, if you're, you know, believe or whatever you have a set of belief that could fix all these problems, I would follow you as well. I would say that you are a prophet, okay? But unfortunately, that's not the case Please do that. Yes, you cannot do that because what you say is just some words. Yes, we have to do this, we have to do that, but you don't know even the source of the problems. Join my calls, join my calls everybody. Thank you. Juicy and want to remind you folks, our guests are linked in the description box. So if you want to hear more from either of our guests, you can find their links down below and you can also find their links at the podcast episode of this debate as all of our debates end up on the Modern Day Debate podcast within 24 hours of the debate happening with our guests linked there as well. So if you want to hear more from Impostate Prophet or the Perfect Dawa, check those links out. And with that, thanks so much for your question, this one coming in from first one, XXWLZXX says, hey James, let's see, okay. I'll answer that one in the post credits. That one was for me. Stop scamming man says, hello, Ridvan. Would you be interested in a moderated debate with pondering soul slash Yusef ponders or Adnan Rashid? Thank you for the question. I absolutely would be interested in having debates with them. I don't think they are interested in having debates with me. And I was interested. Because yeah, I would be definitely open to that. They are traditionalist understandings of Islam and they have bad understandings, traditional understandings of Islam in regards of theology and jurisprudence. I would love to have a debate with them, but I doubt that it will ever happen because they will never agree. Yeah. Can I say something? From Mr. Monster says, I'm Jewish, so I am a kafir, what will be my fate Perfect Dawa? As I said, you are not a kafir just because you are a Jew. I have said kafir is oppression, bad deeds. So if you do bad deeds, even Allah is the most merciful and forgiving. He says that if you don't commit bigger sins or major sins, I'll forgive your minor sins. So Allah knows that people have the special capacity and they might not understand. So you are not a kafir just because you believe in something else, according to which we were having this discussion, according to what I was saying. According to you, Islam? Yeah, I understand. And I was, not only me, there are others as well. To other people? Yes, I was going to say that I wish that you asked that doctor, who was it, Abdul Majid? You were talking that he was saying that you are my brother. You should ask him about that hadith. If he believed in that hadith or not, if you reject that hadith or not, because I wanted to see his reaction, because they are mostly afraid. And I had a debate with one of these traditional scholar, Sheikh Haitham, he's from UK. He's a very extremist scholar. And he was saying, can you imagine yourself? That's why I say these people don't understand anything. He was saying that we punish these people like stoning adulterers, because we purify them. We punish them here, so that they are not going to be punished next life. Excuse me, then it is a good, because next life is forever. This one is really short. And I can go and kill somebody and you execute me and I go to heaven. Am I right or wrong? But you want to believe that Islam is something nice because you want to believe in it, but unfortunately that's not what Islam is. But anyway, you think yourself that these people, such a people, they use their brain yourself, put yourself as a believer, that how can somebody think like this, that if I stoned that adulterer or if I execute this killer, I have purified them. Islam doesn't want you to use your brain, that's the problem, that's the main problem. Okay, all right. This one coming in from friendly ex-Muslim says, how does he know they are forgiven if he doesn't accept Bukhari? I didn't understand, can you please repeat again? I might be pronouncing Bukhari wrong. Bukhari, yeah, I know, I know, yes. Well, they said, how does he know they are forgiven if he doesn't accept Bukhari? Who are forgiven? I think it was in reference to, you said that certain people are forgiven after they commit horrible things and they convert to Islam. But you take these sources from hadiths, such as the strongest is Bukhari. Or do you know these people are forgiven if you don't accept the sources? Yes, I didn't say that I'm not a Quranist, okay? I didn't say that I don't accept these hadiths. I said that Quran says that the hadiths which goes against Quran, because we know that there are lots of, even Bukhari himself, as he says, he rejected 600,000 hadiths, fabricated hadiths. So hadiths, there are fabricated and authentic hadiths. How we know which one is fabricated and which one is authentic, okay? It is not about Bukhari who teach me that this one is authentic. It is Quran that teaches me. So when it goes against Quran, it is not in line with Quran, then it is fabricated according Quran itself. Says that those that goes against Quran, then they are not from your Lord. The problem is you can't know whether the Quran is accurate or not. If you don't trust the hadith, you will verify the Quran's authenticity based on the hadith. That's the problem. So how can you verify the Quran based on the hadiths and then verify the hadith based on the Quran? That doesn't work. No, I told you that I said that, what is it? The hadiths can be fabricated, but Quran cannot be fabricated. Okay, that doesn't work. I'm sorry, that's illogical. You got it. I'll give you a chance to respond. If you have, let's say, I think the original question is for you, perfect Dawa. So I'll give you the last word on that before we go to the next one. Yes. If you had any last response. No, no, I answered. I answered the question. You got it. And this one coming in from bubblegum guns says, how many have suffered and died to quote unquote stabilize the barbaric Islamist, the neo-liberal imperialism, West bearing gifts of quote unquote human rights, two faced libs. I don't know what they're getting at. I guess they're trying to present this incredibly imbecilic dichotomy between Islam and modern liberalism. I guess it should be a jab at people who criticize Islam out of modernity. I just want to say this is something very stupid that Daniel Kikicu does all the time where he presents this idea that you have either Islam, which is completely pro-human or you have modern liberalism, Western colonialism, which destroyed humanity. That is unfortunately absolutely idiotic. What we have is not either Islam or the British empire with colonialism. What we have is Islam and numerous different ideas and we can go with numerous different ideas over Islam. You got it. This one coming in from Zagros, Auskanz's perfect Dawa. Can you explain, Ann Nisa 34, please? Ann Nisa 34. The wife beating verse. The wife beating also, yes. I will tell you that. In the meantime, we'll go ahead. Yes, I see. This strike has been used also many times, many different times in Quran. Chapter four. The thing is that, let me say, for example, chapter 43 verse five, strike is ignore. Shall we utterly ignore you because you are one turn four? Chapter four, 101, strike is travel. So the chapter 434, it says that simply leave. And then next chapter 35 says that, and if you fear decision, sorry, dissension between the two and send an arbiter from his people and an arbiter from her people, if they both desire reconciliation, Allah will cause it between them. Indeed, Allah is ever known. Chapter 33, 28 to 29, all prophets say to your wives, if you should desire the worldly life and it's from chapter 33, from 28 to 31, Allah is talking to his own prophet about his wives and because of their disobedience and so, he never mentioned to beat them. So these beating wives has always been there and if Allah is for beating wives, he would never mention it because this was what people were doing in this lockdown in Mexico, just few months in lockdown, 1,000 women were killed in domestic violence. So this- There's nothing to do with the question. No, the question is the answer is that, Allah has been trying to seize the situation. First, do these. I'm also a husband. I know that if I'm angry with my wife or something, if I separate my bed, tomorrow I will calm down. So Quran has been trying to seize the problem and Quran, this strike, again, I said that- I'm sorry, the whole problem, we're going on with this forever, but the whole problem is that you are trying to, to project your own way of thinking onto what Allah says. Allah says something that you say, no, Allah would never say that because I know that Allah would never do that. I'm sorry, but the Quran verse says, beat them. It's a strike, yeah? It's a strike. I could now say, I beat you in this game and I could say I beat two people up yesterday. I couldn't say, well, I didn't mean I beat them up physically because it also means I beat you in a competition. But why you don't- Why you take that, I said that again, chapter three verse seven, you take interpretation that suit your agenda. I don't take interpretation, I read it directly. Yes, 20, chapter 20 verse 77, strike is search, even search. So I said that those verses, unspecific verses of Quran, you have to check, read Quran. It's not unspecific, just because they work as different meanings, that doesn't mean that a problematic verse definitely doesn't mean what it clearly says. Okay, chapter 30 verse 21. And it is among his signs that he has created for you wives from among yourselves so that you may find transquality in them. And he has created love and kindness, surely in this there is signs for, so Allah talk about love between man and husband. So he knows that beating wife doesn't make love between them. And as I said, next chapter says that if you think that they separate, separate after what, after he beat her, no, after they, he separated, he left her. So strike means leave her on third time, okay? First, advise her, secondly, you know, separate your bed, thirdly, leave her if it doesn't work, okay? So it's not beating, beating is oppression. Yeah, the Muslim apologists also think it is very loving to cut off my head for disbelieving in Islam. Yes, I love that. Just because they say it's out of love or kindness, that doesn't mean that they also apply these punishments. I'm sorry, but yeah. But again, this is what you want to believe that Islam is, you know. It is love, this is what Islam is, I'm sorry. Okay. This one coming in from, do appreciate your question. Zagros, oh, we got that one. This one coming in from Zagros Askan as well, says perfect Awa, how do you explain the predestination problem? Which one? I think you have been talking about, yes, AP, yes? Yeah, I talked about it very much. I don't believe that it is decided that I will kill somebody tomorrow. No, I have free will, okay? I don't know from where you get these things because I think from Quran, what Quran says that we have decided for you to become a killer or everything is decided. No, there is a free will and you can, what is it? You decide for your good deeds and bad deeds. So Allah has created, Allah says that if He wanted to make them believers, we would do that, we wouldn't send you O Muhammad to make them believers. So just deliver the message, okay? So if He wanted, He would create us believers but He created us with free will so that we can do according His guidance and reject it, we can accept it. So there is no predestination in my belief and what I have learned again, yes. This one coming in from, do appreciate your question, XXWLZXX says quote unquote, anti-Iranian interpretation perfectly said. And then Saint Beloved says, the perfect Dawah, would you allow your six year old daughter to marry an old man? Is that a good idea for any child? Okay, it is as I have said before as well, this is from the same source that says Prophet Muhammad is running split the moon, which is both are absolutely fabricated and lies, okay? So I don't believe that Prophet Muhammad ever, as I said that these source says that Quran is incomplete. So you don't have to accept everything you hear from these. Why is that a fabrication? What does it contradict with? Because it is the oppression against that little child. According to you, that not according to, oppression is subjective, justice is subjective. How is it in contradiction with anything in the Quran that Muhammad married a child who was six years old and married her when she was nine? Because as I said, it's a violation of a child's right that she doesn't understand anything. Yeah, according to you and according to me, but how is that in contradiction with what the Quran says? It's apparently not oppressive and not unjust according to. It is oppressive, yeah. No, according to you and according to me, yes, but not according to the Quran. According to understanding of Quran, it is oppression, okay? Where, how, how? How? Because definitely we understand a little child doesn't understand, you know? Yeah, according to you, but where according to the Quran? I don't have a specific verse, but. Because there is not. No, there are lots of verses that oppression is, you know. Okay, okay, but okay, oppression according to you and according to me, not according to the Quran. That's what I'm saying. It is not in contradiction with the Quran that Muhammad did marry a child and had sex with her when she was a nine year old child and he was in his fifties. Okay, but there is no any verse of Quran that I have to believe in this hadith, okay? Okay, but the hadith is there is overwhelming evidence that this is a very authentic hadith by Islamic standards. If you reject this, then you have to reject a lot of these because these hadiths have many transmitters that are reliable upon which your entire belief depends. No, they were even, first of all, Bukhari says that this person, this person, this person has said it, okay? Even if we take it true that this person, this person has said it, there were lots of, you know, or I don't know how many, but there were hypocrites around Prophet Muhammad. And then later also they changed, you know, of course, they became, they changed their mind. They even started to fight each other. So they could have, as I said, the Quran says. You can't trust anything. No. I'm sorry, but the Quran says in chapter 65 verse four, it says, and those who no longer expect menstruation among your women, among your wives, and also for those wives who have not yet menstruated. And this was a classical, a verse that has been taken by classical Islamic scholars, taken as a verse that explains that you can be married to women or to women who have not yet had their menstruations and who have not reached puberty. I'm sorry, but that's second, that's what I said. Yes, but there are women who never get menstruation, who have problem. So how do you know that, as I said, chapter three verse seven, again, the true meaning of them is known only by Allah and those who are fear in knowledge, okay? So a child marriage is absolutely wrong and Islam wouldn't allow that. I agree, Islam doesn't agree. I'm sorry, but thank you. Yeah, thank you. This one coming in from, do appreciate your question. My dear brother Ben says to both speakers, what were Muhammad's religious beliefs before he received his first revelation? I mean, we can't really know, but if you look at the, if you infer based on the knowledge that we have, his family and his tribe were people who were pre-Islamic polytheists and who believed in several deities that were worshiped and revert by the pre-Islamic Arabs. And Muhammad was most likely also a follower of their beliefs or he believed in certain things that a minority of people believed in Arabia. We can't know, it's impossible to know. Yes, I guess the same, I don't know exactly, but I might have been, you know, ever, but definitely he was in Muslim, definitely he was in Christian, would you? That's good, that's good. I don't think so, but anyway, as the other prophets also were not believers and God chose them later, so they became believers later. You got it, and thank you very much for this question coming in from St. Beloved says the perfect, oh, we got that one. Zagroz-Oxcan says by strike them, all of them strike them during bullying, like humiliate them at bullying, subhanallah, how merciful he wants couples to play bowling. They're giving a parody response. And we'll give you a chance to respond, perfect Allah. About what? It was a joke over. Spyrion says Allah doesn't love anyone except Muhammad in front sees Allah. Is this true? Allah doesn't like anyone except Prophet Muhammad? You say Allah doesn't love anyone except Muhammad, other than Allah. Do you understand what he says there, AP? Well, he says Allah doesn't love anyone except Muhammad. No, it's just funny. Because Allah doesn't. I guess it is a play on the whole idea that Allah does whatever Muhammad wants him to do in the Quran. Allah is apparently very much concerned about whatever Muhammad wants in his life. And I would agree that that is the case simply because Allah was made up by Muhammad either because Muhammad was a liar or because he was mentally ill or something. Another thing, okay. I would say about this that Allah says that we created you from men and women and the best of your front of Allah is the one with the most sacrifice. So it doesn't matter who are you. The most, you know, Taqwa is in Arabic but I can interpret it as a sacrifice, okay. For that Allah's way, which is out of this jungle to a beautiful world. That's, they are the best people in front of Allah. And it's not only Prophet Muhammad, anybody can be that. You got it in. Sahih Luke asked, the perfect Dawah, it is a proven fact that there are different Quran's. Do you believe the brainwashing by Muslim leaders who still teach others it has been perfectly preserved is harmful? I didn't, and you mean, I think he meant that the wrong teaching of these scholars is harmful. So we were talking about that if he meant that. No, he means we have proved that there are different versions of the Quran. And do you think that it is harmful that scholars tell us that the Quran has been perfectly preserved instead? Very different Quran or version of Quran. I don't believe that there are different version of Quran but different Quran, yes, I have heard it. So do you believe the traditional Islamic narrative that the Quran has been perfectly preserved or letter for letter word from the very beginning? In perhaps in most part, nothing special that changed the meaning, if there has been because I haven't made research on that. What I have been concentrated in Islam is about how Islam can guide us out of this jungle we are living aside. I said to you before that I don't want to live in a world where children are bound, they are going hungry, okay? And I'm looking for way out of this problem, this jungle and I found that way out in Islam. So I don't think that those small things are the most important things because the main message is there to get rid of the source of all problems which is the devil and the devil is this jungle and its rules and leave equally loved one another. So that's the main message that I'm trying to also, maybe you can call it, you say that no, this is different Islam. So that's up to you, okay? I like the jungle, I don't know what you have against the jungle. The jungle, you like that people get bound and killed? Do you like that people do it? No, I like the jungle. So you like, but you say what I jungle to go out. I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. No, but anyway, this is very serious as well that if, do you like, I'm talking seriously, do you like this jungle really or do you dislike it? AP. I mean, by jungle you're referring to the human nature basically. I don't dislike the human nature. I'm not, I'm referring to the jungle and its rules that the strongest one get the most, the weakest one get little or nothing and has to die. I would say that it's human nature. I don't, we have a different understanding. I understand, I know. I think so by the way they are. I would say it's human nature that people understand. Yes, I understand, I understand. I understand, this is human nature. But do you think that we can get rid of, not human nature, get rid of the jungle, get rid of all these problems? We cannot. But there is no solution to all problems in the world. That is a utopia. That's a fantasy understanding of how the world supports the function. We have our human nature and there is no perfect solution to this human nature. We can only do our best. Yes, but AP, I told you that imagine, I mean, five million people die every year from cigarettes because some tobacco companies, they want to become billionaires by selling tobacco. So if we get rid of that source, which is the money and they cannot become rich on selling tobacco, definitely you are living 21st century AP. You understand that they will not produce tobacco. It's very, very simple. Of course. And what we could do is to confront those harmful elements within the system that we have. If we get rid of money and we get rid of competition, then we will have, we will basically go backward in human development because humans have skyrocketed in development due to competition, due to rewards, due to money and so on. The world doesn't work without a concept of competition, of production, of money. That's the utopic communist understanding of the world, which is futile, it doesn't work, sorry. All right, now I have to tell you, AP, that that's your, because you don't see different sides. You don't know much. I'm blind, I'm blind. It's always because I'm not saying that they are blind. I say that you have not that information that I have. And I say that only second world war, because of this jungle, destroyed and stopped humanity from developing a lot. In this jungle, everybody pushed each other down to go up, China, Russia, all these problems. For example, only my home country, Iran, if 1953, USA and UK didn't make a coup d'etat against our democratic elected prime minister, Dr. Mosaddegh, and put a dictator in power, we could develop, we could be second Japan. And that democracy would spread in entire Middle East. Everybody would develop, everything would be fine. But because they wanted cheap oil, let me fast say, because they wanted cheap oil, they wanted... So that's why they brought down the democratic elected prime minister, put a dictator in power and result of that was a blind... I know that's very sad, but I think the main problem here that we have is that you keep thinking that we all understand things the wrong way and we are all blind and you have the right understanding and right interpretation of things. This is the second time that... I didn't say you are blind. I said that you don't have the right information. Okay, that means I'm blind, so I'm sorry. No, okay. Yes, if you think like that, for example, you have heard a million times I think we should really move on, right James? We'll jump into this last question. Okay, yes, yes, please. This one coming in from, and this is appropriate for both. Well, actually, no, this one is a perfect Dawa. They said, what if Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all proven wrong? What would be your religion or faith? I mean, it is a difficult question because I found the truth in Islam. So, I mean, okay, I have to put it in this way that if I realize if somebody can prove me that Islam cannot guide us out of this jungle, okay? And Islam is just, I believe just pray fasting, you know, then I think that God is useless and the religion is useless, okay? So, I mean, for me, I don't know what else I have to do. I, you know, I want a solution to, for example, I can say like this that I'm fighting, we have been fighting against this dictator regime in Iran for 42 years and I've been looking for alternative to this regime. I found this NEC and I'm following them. If they cannot, you know, bring down the regime and bring democracy back to Iran, then I don't know what to do. This is the question is like this. And what to do, I don't know. Can I ask a follow-up question to that to clarify it very quickly? Go for it. As I understand it, you are trying to simply evaluate Islam based on whether it can guide humans out of the problem or not. But what if Islam was clearly proven theologically wrong? Like that the theological aspects of Islam clearly don't make sense and that it can't be true. And Christianity and Judaism were also proven wrong. But you still believe that Islam could lead us out of this jungle, as you call it. What would you then believe in? But if you prove me, then I wouldn't believe that. Okay, but if we prove that Islam is clearly theologically wrong, you know, the theological aspects of it like the belief in Allah and Muhammad and the Quran and this and that, would you then, what would you then believe in? I mean, because I know that, I mean, I'm right. So it is a question which is kind of impossible. Okay, so I have to say like this that one thing is that I have to say that as a person with a lot of experiences and, you know, thanks God, enough knowledge, I cannot believe that people of the past as a bunch of liars, you know, who came and said, I'm prophet of God, okay? Because you say simply that they were liars. They came and put their lives in danger to, you know, say these beautiful words to say, for example, Jesus, peace be upon him, say that woman who was going to be stoned to death, Moses, he saved those slaves from Pharaoh and he gave us nice loads for that time, of course, and prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, saved children who were bearing a lie, okay? So such a people with all these beautiful words, I say, I would love to talk to, you know, psychologists, you know, psychologists to see if a liar can say all these beautiful words that, you know, evil, you know, reply evil with, you know, good instruction, all these things and save children from being, you know, and then another thing is that I wouldn't believe that an illiterate man 1400 years ago, how I woke up, by the way, that Allah exists, God exists was that when I learned that there is an end to this world and I learned in Hinduism that they believe in reincarnation and this reincarnation continue forever, but science says that there is an end to this world, okay? And these people of thousands of years ago, they have said that there is an end to this world and that illiterate man 1400 years ago, he didn't even say, he even said how it will end. In billions of years, in billions of years, that doesn't really, that's not really a good prophecy. The issue is, I think many psychologists, I think many psychologists can prove to you that terrible people can say very beautiful things. I listened to a lot of speeches from Hitler and I read a lot of his writings and his transcripts and he said some very touching, some very emotional, some very beautiful things which the German people of his time were really touched by. And it could seem to the average person who doesn't know about what's going on in the world, like this man is really looking out for our best interests. He's doing so many great things, but I'm sorry, the methods that he then employed to do those great things were are in front of our eyes, in front of everyone's eyes. And I think the methods that Muhammad employed are also in front of everyone's eyes, they are not pretty. James, can we have like closing statements or something? If you guys are both up for it, I'm willing to do that. Are you guys both good with like a two or three minute closing? Sure, yeah. Sure, then let's start with the prostate profit and then we can wrap up right after that with the perfect Dawa and I'll set the timer for, I'll give you guys as much as three minutes. Okay, I'll do three minutes. Okay, so our discussion tonight was whether Islam is harmful and whether extremists represent Islam. I think it has been quite clear as far as I see it that Islam is harmful, it is contrary to the human will to flourish and to seek happiness. It may be that the Islamists themselves and the proponents of Islam themselves also believe that they strive for happiness, for ultimate happiness, they strive for something good. And I grant that they do believe they are doing the right thing. Unfortunately, they are employing very terrible methods which are contrary to the human goal to flourish and to achieve ultimate happiness. Islam's understanding of humanity and Islam's morals put forth through the Islamic scripture and Islamic laws are contrary to human flourishing. They are oppressive, they give us ignorance, they teach us intolerance, they teach us hate. They don't give us anything useful, anything helpful. Nothing helpful that can help us today in the 21st century. The world is better off without Islam. We are talking about whether extremists represent Islam or how do we define extremists? ISIS themselves say we are not extremists, they are, others are extremists, we are actually the right ones. But as we can see, most of us in the world who are not fooled by their terrible beliefs will call them extremists because they call for a world in which we are not allowed to think, we are not allowed to live freely, in which we are not allowed to pursue our own goals and our own happiness. A world in which women are not free, in which non-Muslims are not free, in which not even Muslims themselves are free. And this world is not only represented by ISIS, it is also represented by the regular traditionalist Muslims, by the regular traditionalist understanding of Islam, by the average classical books of Islamic law that we have available today in all kinds of languages. This idea is represented in the ground which instructs people to fight those who disbelieve in Allah. It is present in the hadith which tells us that Muhammad came to fight the people until they testify that Allah is God and that Muhammad is his messenger. This is the belief that teaches us that human life is worth nothing and that all is for Allah and that everything can be done on this pursuit. I'm pretty sure that it is quite evident, quite obvious that this is what Islam is. Islam is extremist, Islam is harmful. As much as I would love to see a world where Muji's interpretation of Islam is dominant, unfortunately, I would say that this is just his personal wish, his personal understanding. It will not happen, unfortunately. And all I want to say is stay away from Islam. You got it. We will kick it over to Perfect Dawa for his closing as well. Got it set for three minutes. For is yours. Yes, I would like to say that I wish that everybody would work towards peace and I'm on your side if you really want to get rid of these extremists, people like Sahar Kachoo and ISIS and Taliban, we have them on your side. We are fighting them in many, many years and I'm not alone, as I said, we are millions and yes, things has been misinterpretated in the past and these are mostly because of, as I said, many scholars, they have been thinking about their own interests because they didn't want to go against mainstream, otherwise they would lose their job, their followers and so on. So they took their interests and their own life before their beliefs. But we who do not care about interest, we want to fight these extremists and we want to spread love and there is no compulsion in Islam, no compulsion in religion and we have the right only as the last option to fight those who fight us, okay? And that's as the last option, not the first option. If possible, we have to run away, but okay? So and then we have the right to fight as long as they fight. When they stop fighting, we have to stop fighting too because Allah does not like those who start the fight. And yes, I wish that those who have more questions, they come to me and I will talk to them on my stream and yes, I don't have more anything else to say. Thank you. Thank you James for this opportunity. My pleasure and want to say reminder folks, both of our guests are linked in the description. We really do appreciate them and that includes at the Modern Day Debate podcast, we link our guests, AP and Perfect Dawa as well. So I want to say one last thank you so much, Apostate Prophet and Perfect Dawa. It's been a true pleasure to have you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Now my pleasure, the pleasure is all mine and I'll be back in just a moment folks with a post credit scene on upcoming debates. You don't want to miss it. There's also a poll in the chat. What view do you most identify with? Muslim, atheist, Christian or other? So don't forget to vote on that poll. And with that, I will be back in just a moment as mentioned, so stick around.