 you know, negative self-talk, I was the queen of it back when I was a lawyer. And I've learned that that's not really useful, right? Because if you spend your whole night rehearsing what you didn't do well, you're more likely to do the exact same thing the next day. So welcome to the podcast, Sharlane. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you. I'm really excited too, because you are talking to me from the UK. You are in London. Yes, indeed. Yes. So first things first, let's start off. What's the difference between a barrister and a litigator? Or are they the same? Oh, right. OK, no, they are quite different. So in the UK, you can either be a solicitor or you can be a barrister. So typically, solicitors would work within law firms. So when you're thinking about your typical corporate lawyer, whether you are a litigator, whether you do M&A or transaction work, or you work in construction, you will be a solicitor working in the law firm. And if you are going to court as a barrister, then you will be a barrister. So that's really the difference. So you choose quite early on in the UK when you are in law school, whether you want to be a barrister, in which case you become a pupil into a chamber, or you are a training solicitor who will join a law firm and then you go through a training contract, then you become an associate. And then if you're one of the lucky ones, you become a partner. Yeah. OK, and I did see that your background is in big law. Now, when we say big law in America, it means something completely different, right? Aren't there like five really big firms in the UK? And it's pretty much one of those that you go to. Big law would be one of the large American law firms. So I think the definition would be really reliant upon what would be considered big law in the world of American big law. And I did work at American firms, but we also have a different language. So to speak, we have the Silver Circle and we have the Magic Circle for UK law firms as well. So, you know, there is a bit of a sort of gentle fight, if I may say so, as to whether or not you're working for a Silver Circle or Magic Circle, but really, it's top leading law firms. Yeah. And so by top leading law firm, I'm thinking really long hours, lots of stress, high demand. Was that similar? Yeah. Yes. But also amazing client exposure and fantastic colleagues. I have to say that ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to work, you know, as part of the big law or the top law firms and really wanted to serve at the highest level. And I'm super grateful. My years there have really made me the professional that I am. And I wouldn't I wouldn't change it, you know, even if I could go back in time. There are a few things I would tell my younger version of myself. But I would stick to the big global world. Really, I'm grateful to work with them now. So OK, yeah. So I wanted to just jump into that because, you know, I love to watch movies about England and the UK. And I'm always like, Bearster, Bearster, Solicitor, what's the difference? So that's why I had to change up the beginning a little bit. Of course. So, Shailene, would you explain your background and how young were you when you decided you wanted to be a Bearster or a Solicitor from a very young age? Well, OK, I'll take you all the way back then. Yes, I wanted to be a lawyer since I was a little girl. My dad was very successful. He was running his own company. And I used to be working in his office, you know, playing with paperwork and seeing him put on a suit on every day going on all those business trip. And I remember being maybe like five or six, maybe 10, growing up and being like, you know, Daddy, what do you do when you want to when you love paperwork so much? Because, well, my darling, you become a lawyer. So for me, it was really my dad that inspired me to become a lawyer and to have an international career with a global reach and to serve at the highest level. So very early on, I decided that I wanted to be a lawyer. And then as soon as I decided to be a lawyer, it was very quick for me to decide to become a litigator. I really wanted to be involved in conflict resolution, dispute resolution, so that's why I chose. OK, very cool. And so I find that very fascinating because you currently are a coach. You're an NLP coach and also a primal health coach. You do breath work, you do all of this stuff, but you work with business executives. Do you think your background in watching your dad was like, I bet I could help them do things better. Well, perhaps a bit of a vulnerable moment in my life, but I feel like I need to share it. The reason I wanted to be a lawyer was my dad, but the reason I also stepped out was my dad because, sadly enough, as I was going more and more successful, building more and more hours and really thriving in the world of litigation, my dad actually had a burnout driven heart attack followed by a stroke. And that major episode made me reconsider my priorities a little bit. I very much was working with the level of intensity that my dad had been working his whole life. And it made me question whether what I was doing was sustainable. So, you know, I never questioned my passion for the law. I loved it, but I didn't have any self-care tools. I genuinely don't remember sitting in law school and being attending a class on how to take care of yourself, how to be a resilient lawyer, how to be lasting long into your career. You learn all this amazing legal knowledge, right? But how do you sustain that? And I learned very young, you know, from being at uni, attending top university. I studied at Cambridge. I was sleeping in the library, pulling all-nighters and all the other stuff you need to do to be a top student. Right? Again, I don't regret that, but I learned some habits that actually were quite detrimental to my health that I didn't realize. And my health deteriorated. You know, I was suffering from insomnia. I was so anxious. And I thought, you know, this is not just about me. This is not just about my dad. I saw some of my most powerful colleagues burn out. I saw some tragic story about very, very sad health, scare or health diagnosis that really put a career on hold. And I thought to myself, how can I become the coach that I wish I had, specifically for the legal world, specifically for high-achieving elite professional that really want to have it all, but actually often they get stopped by a health diagnosis. So my mission was to understand my blind spot. So what I perhaps didn't do so well in terms of my self-care, and I take 100% responsibility in that, but also how could I help other professionals on their journey to keep doing what they love to do, but in a way that would be a bit more sustainable? I love that. And how's your dad doing now? Is he much better? Oh, thanks for asking. You know what? He's the healthiest version of myself. He was my inspiration and he followed the blueprint that I was educated on to the letter and he just did a pilgrimage, which was a huge achievement considering his heart condition and he's healthier than ever. And also still very active in the corporate world and do a lot of things to support entrepreneur and a lot of charities involvement. So yeah, he's my deli inspiration. And if you're listening to the podcast, you can't see me, but I'm over here clapping. I'm like, yay, yay, yay, I'm so happy. So all right, good. And if you are watching, thank you for watching. So I am starting to record the podcast. I'm keeping the audio, but I'm also recording YouTube. So if you're interested in seeing what I look like, what Shalene looks like, please check out the YouTube as well. So Shalene, let's jump right into what you do right now, right? You currently run your own business and you have two associate coaches. What is a typical day like for you? Do you have typical days? Oh, that's a really great question. I love it. So my typical day are actually walking the talk in terms of self-care. I've learned the hard way that if you don't start your day with a bit of self-care, then you're probably not gonna do it. So the only kind of running back when I was a lawyer was running to the coffee machine and to the print room. We used to print back 10 years ago, not so much anymore, but that was the only kind of running. And now I've learned the hard way that actually having some kind of a cardio routine, whether you're a runner, go for it, whether you like to dance, go for it, whether you're a cyclist, go for it. But I make my self-care non-negotiable part of my day. So I'll wake up, I do a bit of gratitude journaling, a bit of breath work, make sure I get some sun into my eyes, go for a walk, go for a run, just get that done. First thing. So my diaries are blocked out in the morning because I need to take care of myself because I know that I burned out before and I don't wanna burn out again. Then it's all about my clients and how I can serve them at the highest level. So I schedule everything. I schedule my meetings, but I also schedule my breaks. I schedule time for my meals because I don't like to eat in front of the computer. So I make sure that I have time to cook healthy and I make sure that I sit down, mindfully. And I also split my weekdays according to time zone because I serve American clients as well as Asian client and European client. So I have dedicated days of the week to serve dedicated time zone. You know, when you manage a global team and you manage a global clientele, you really have to schedule that in. So I have my US days, my Asia day and my European days so that I can factor in adequate sleep. And I often get that client question. It seems that you were working till midnight last night and then you were available. I was like, yeah, I know. But I did do my sleep optimization. I did do my self-care. So I can actually show up the next day and show you at the highest level because I factored that in. Back when I was a lawyer, I can assure you that I did not do that. You know, it was work, work, work, work, work, work. Don't sleep. Don't eat mindfully. Don't prioritize my body. Hope that it doesn't break. If it doesn't break, just make sure to fix it somewhat. And I've learned to listen to my signal. Then I also do dedicate a lot of time for my family and my partner. They're very important. I also learned the hard way. You know, my first marriage did not survive because of the intensity of my work and my life. And I've learned that, you know, if you don't invest time into your relationship, those relationships will break. So I do take my partnership very seriously and I make sure that I invest a lot of time. Even though we've been together for many years, we still plan out date nights. You know, those little things that actually make your life really fulfilling. And I make sure that I have power up and power down. So, you know, in the morning, I do my self-care. And in the evening, I make sure that I schedule a bit of time to actually reassess, right? What was the highlight of my day? What did I do really well? What could I do more of? How can I be even better? Like, what was the highlight of that day? How did I serve? What difference did I make? How did that impact me emotionally? Because I've learned that if you don't sit down to power down, you go into would have, should have, could have. I did that for many years and you close off your day and you're just going into to do this mode and you're going, oh my God, I didn't do this and my goodness, I didn't do that. I was master at that, you know, negative self-talk. I was the queen of it back when I was a lawyer. And I've learned that that's not really useful, right? Because if you spend your whole night rehearsing what you didn't do well, you're more likely to do the exact same thing the next day. What did you do today that you didn't even know how to do last week, last month, last year? Look at the progress. Look at this earlier version of yourself. You're kicking ass. Did you know that you could do the things that you're doing today, right? Sometimes we really need to tune in to that inner cheerleader, right? Because we lean on to other people to give us feedback, but actually we don't always have portable cheerleaders. So it's really important that we learn how to be our own best cheerleader. And then really, how are you developing and how are you progressing professionally and personally, you know? Okay, I hear you, you had a very tough day and you've had negative feedback or you haven't shined your brightest light, but what did you learn from that? What did you learn from that so that next time the same situation shows up, you approach it differently? Well, that in itself is a victory too, isn't it? Yeah. So I am writing all kinds of notes in the margins. I'm like, wow, this is teaching me. This is so great. Did you learn all of this through your trainings for meditation, breathwork and all of the courses you took? Yeah, absolutely. This is really, to me, this is what being a hybrid performance and wellbeing coach. I have done a lot of house related coaching certification which is really vital. But to me, that wasn't enough because if you just look at the person's wellbeing but you don't look at the impact on their performance, which let's be honest, when you're talking to elite performers and successful professionals, they really care about how they perform at work, right? So you've got to bridge that gap between how the wellbeing optimization speaks volume to how they shine when they come into the office. And that's really where you plug things in, right? That's how you can look at your habits and your micro habits and think, oh, okay, so this element of my wellbeing is actually having a negative knock on impact. So I like to think of it as a domino ripple effect, like do a little bit of a self-awareness, self-assessment checklist and have a little bit of a look at your habits daily and which habits really feed in your performance and which habits actually hinder your performance. Yeah, which I can imagine will be really difficult for high performers because they're like, no, everything I did, everything is pushing me to where I am now, right? And you're like, but we could tweak some things of it, you know? Yes, absolutely. So, Charlene, what was the decision like when you decided to leave Big Law? When you said, I love this, it's incredible, but there's more. What was that decision like? Look, it was hard. I'm not gonna pretend that it was an easy decision. It was really hard and I'll be very candid. It was also financially bold, you know? When you move from a place where you're very secured financially and as I was saying, I was also married at the time, so the same year I left a marriage, I left a very secured financial career that was set on a very good path and I had this intention to set up an online consultancy and we're talking way before COVID, right? So people thought I was mad. Online, who's going to do online consultation, online coaching? And well, you know, call it luck, call it good intuition, but it actually became successful very quickly because it came from an intention of serving, right? I just wanted to stick with what I know, which was the legal and corporate world and actually be vulnerable and not go and be the one that says, oh, I know better, not at all, but more like, okay, I really messed this up in my life really badly. And I come from a place of deep humility and I've actually gone on a quest for many years, taken all the different wellness tools and different coaching institutions and different teachers and spiritual masters that I've met. I went to live in India and I went to live in Indonesia and I went to live in Nepal and just really gathered all those beautiful pairs of wisdom to then integrate them back into the corporate world. And often I get the question, but then why didn't you stay in India or in Indonesia? It sounds pretty good, right? I was living on a beach and the answer to that is actually, that was never my intention. My intention was to go get my answer and come back to a world that I love. My passion was to be the one that could be of service in an industry that I know, but that also no suffers so often and with so much taboo associated with burnout and mental health, because whether you're talking to a corporate executive or whether you're talking to a brilliant lawyer, who wants to admit that that one organ that they use all day long, their brain, their mental health is the one that's suffering, right? Because when we look at the world of athletic performance, people break bones, they get injured. Okay, they put a cast on, right? You can see it, but how many times do you see people walking around with a cast around their head because they had a brain injury, right? That doesn't happen, but actually, a burnout is really about having been chronically deprived from relaxation for years and years, having been chronically overdoing and also sort of chronologically under being. And I really believe that you can have it all. You can do amazing and be super performant and successful, but you really do have to insert tiny little moments of rest and recovery and adequate relaxation so that you can sustain this in the long game. Wow. And I can imagine your clients are like, what is rest? I go on holiday a couple times a year, isn't that enough? And you're like, no, it has to be consistent, it has to be regular, it has to be part of your routine. Absolutely, and I think, you know, I love that you just brought that up. And I think perhaps what's quite unique about my coaching proposition and methodology is that I'm not necessarily an advocate for those big, huge transformations. So, you know, I did go to the other end of the world and travel for two years, but I'm not here telling people to quit their job and go on a retreat. That's not what I believe in. What I believe in is actually inserting consistent one to three minutes every two hours, every 90 minutes of self-reflection, of self-care, of breathwork, of mindfulness consistently. So, when I get a client that goes, okay, that's it. I've booked a three-hour yoga class. My life is gonna be transformed. I hear Allen Bell's ringing and I'm thinking, okay, wouldn't it be better? We're just negotiating here because my clients love to negotiate with me, you know, the lawyers, so. We're negotiating here, nothing's set in stone, but wouldn't it serve you better? If we said three minutes every morning, one minute break after each key meeting and six minutes at night, how does that sound to you? And if I give you a protocol that you can stick to, not today, not tomorrow, not next week, but for the rest of your life, how does that sound? See? And it's actually those incremental fraction, those micro habits, they compound. It's like an investment, right? You don't just make a fortune by being lucky one day. I mean, you can, but most likely it's because of compound, right? And self-care is compounded as well. So, if you take one minute plus one minute plus three minutes plus six minutes at the end of the year, that's a lot of hours of self-care. Yeah. Wow. I'd love that. And I feel like that would resonate so well with executives and high achievers because we know you didn't wake up one day and you became a lawyer, right? It took all the little steps of this and that and then all accumulated and compounded. So, so Shailene, one of the reasons the podcast is called You Are a Lawyer is because I feel like we can never forget the education, the experience, everything we learned when we were going through the process, right? Yes. What is one thing that you learned from law school or from just the experience of becoming a litigator that you carry with you every day? Resilience and precision, definitely. I learned to be resilient when I was in law school and perhaps one of the reasons was, you know, English was not my first language. So it was pretty tough gig going to Cambridge University as, you know, a foreigner essentially and studying law, which was already quite hard but in another language. I think that really gave me the confidence to be bold. And when I set up my consultancy, although I had supporters, I also had people that thought it was a bit a bit of a hopeful thinking idea. It's the resilience that I built in law school that made me think, okay, I'm gonna attack with this precision and I'm gonna use my lawyer brain to map out a business plan to understand what will be the best, what will be the worst case scenario but to also spend some time, you know, advocating for someone else. I think as a lawyer, you learn the skill of being an advocate as a coach. Isn't it exactly what you are, right? Just advocating and then precision, right? Law is about the details, it's about understanding the facts and the sequence, the codes and the effects. And I think as a coach, I developed that skill of being somebody's detective in the sense of, right, you know, you're telling me you can't sleep, you're telling me you can't eat well, you're telling me you're so anxious. Let's deconstruct that. Let me reverse engineer this. I wanna hear exactly where you are, I wanna meet you where you're at, but I wanna deconstruct reverse engineer to understand what's the root cause, right? How it is. And that's a skill that I learned from being a litigator, right? When you do witness statement and when you need to look at all the different pieces of evidence and you need to do all this research and you need to tease out information and build trust, right? As a coach, if my client doesn't trust me, there is no coaching that can happen. So- There's no coaching, they won't tell you the truth, it'll be- Exactly, exactly. So I do think that having that lawyer and inspiring trust and being a safe container and being able to hold space and again, precision, precision, precision. That's super important. Yes, precision and resilience, that is excellent, excellent. Well, Charlaine, thank you so much for talking to me and the UR Lawyer audience. I truly, truly appreciate it. Thank you, it was an honor and here is to a sustainable future in law. Yes, absolutely. And just real quick, so are you French? What is your background? Oh, yes, I am French. Okay. French born, set up a business in the UK and currently serving in America, Asia and Europe. Yes, I love that. So everyone, please check out Charlaine. We have her details listed in the show notes, they're also listed in the YouTube video and thank you again. YouTube, bye. Lovely to talk to you.