 So here we are, we're out here in Cambridge, 2023. The TV's cranking, we've got a little diamond happening in the middle of the walkway here. We're going to talk to people about animal rights. Let's go. Are you a vegan? Vegetarian. Vegetarian. These are egg laying hens. This is the dairy industry. A vegetarian. No, this is the dairy industry. Whenever these places are investigated, when you're mass breeding animals, you're going to have horrible things happen. So what they do is they grab a male bull, extract semen from the bull. You know, very weird, bizarre, disgusting way. And then they get a big pipette. They stick their entire arm inside the anus of the cow to hold the cervix through the anal lining. And then they stick the pipette full of semen inside of her vagina. These are secret cameras because the industry don't show people. They know that people mostly have a heart, so they have to keep it secret. They rape these animals and they rape her continuously and they take her calf continuously because they need to keep her pregnant to keep her producing milk. She has a little girl calf. They can produce milk, can't they? Because only the females can. What happens when she has a boy calf? They will get killed for meat or they can grow and become like for semen again. Anyway, they're going to get killed anyway because when they're not producing milk anymore. They will get slaughtered. The mother has a long, slow life of pregnant taking calves and then she's not useful anymore. Once she's not useful, she goes slaughter house, head cut off and minced into burgers. The dairy cows go to the slaughter house and get eaten too. So vegetarians still have a part. So I've been vegan for 10 years. I would never touch any dairy eggs because of what happens. So the eggs as well, they're producing these extra large eggs that are super agony. Yeah, they get exhausted and if... Everyone should at least buy medium or small eggs instead of buy eggs. I don't think it has to do with how big they are. I think it has to do with the number of eggs they're selectively bred to lay. So they lay 300 a year when they're usually in the wild laying egg eggs or something like that. I've been in these egg farms and you see chickens just there. There's nothing left of them because they're just laid egg after egg and they can't get any nutrition and they're just slowly suffering to death on the floor and then they all go get gassed. I've got a friend where I used to work. She used to go and mescube their chickens and she said it was incredible. They all knew the names. She used to put ping pong balls up for them to play with. They used to play football with the ping pong balls. Yeah, they're smart. They're like any other animal. But they've just been objectified to the point where people don't see them as another animal anymore. They see them as like... Suits them just now. Yeah, but look at the advertising. If you see like a chicken shop, there'll be a picture of a chicken. They're always like meamed kind of thing. But they are just individuals that are bred into a system they didn't ask to be bred into. And then... It's not their fault. It's not their fault? It's not their fault. How do you feel looking at that? It's not nice, is it? It's not nice. Do you think animals should have rights? These animals? Like protecting them? Yep. Yeah, because I don't just advocate against the torture and the welfare. Also just killing them. Like even if they had a okay lie, I think it's wrong just to murder them, really. Yeah. Yeah. The reason I talk to like people walking past is because when you go into the supermarket, it causes this to happen. There's a causal chain. When you take something off the shelf, they replace it. And where do they replace it from? Everyone has a part to play in what goes on on these screens. These evil doers are only doing it because... People will buy. People will buy. You know, I have no issue with people eating meat. They should be ethical. What is ethical? I just think when they've had a life. Your friend with the rescue chickens, those ones, they're probably happy now. They're all answered into their names. So if I was to go and collect all them up and chop their heads off and eat them, would you think that would be ethical? Well, some would think it was. No, you. And just you personally? I would personally, no. So that's different to what you said to me before? Yeah, I don't know. I just have a belief that some people, it doesn't matter what you do, will never stop eating me. I know that. The only thing you can really truly do is explain to them, okay, are you happy to eat this meat knowing what it's been through? Or would you be happier if somebody was to spend a little bit more money and a bit more time? You know, it's like Kobe beef. It's like, what are those kind of things? You know, fed champagne, strokes, and they listen to classical music. And those cows, yeah, people will still go and buy the best meat. Those cows have at least had three, four years of a decent life. Two years or something like that? Yeah. But how do you know? What they do is to lower the price and treat them worse as well. Because you could treat them better and give them a good life and then kill them after. I know you were against that. Is that justified? Justified. Look at what happened. Like, is it justified to kill someone if you give them a good life? It was someone that would refer to human. No, I mean, like animals are sentient beings, individuals, they have their own preferences, and they're not plants. They're not something. Do you think they're things? Some people do. Do you think animals are things? I don't think they're humans. No, they're not if they're human. I know they're not human. I asked if they're... They're a being, yeah. Yeah, if they're not a thing. I think they're referred to something like an object. I don't think they're objects. Yeah, I think exactly, yeah. So if they're not an object, then they're someone. Yeah. So there's someone in... Yeah, yeah, or someone, yeah. Well, there's someone experiencing their world. Like, obviously, you're having both different subjective experiences right now. I'm having a subjective experience. They're the individual having that experience. So it's not just animal suffering here. There's someone experiencing that suffering. If we gave them a good life, is it okay to kill them? If we just want to eat them, I'm saying. Well, after they died, then I think it's okay to eat them. Yeah. I mean, that wouldn't be an animal rights violation, would it? No, that's not so. So the thing is with humans as well, you're an organ donor, so using the organs for somebody who died. Yeah, consensually. And even if it wasn't on consensually, as long as the family didn't mind... Yeah. You know, I don't see an issue. Yeah, that's not a human rights violation, is it? No, that's not so. They're shooting someone in the head to take their organs against their will, and then breeding more of them just to shoot them in the head and take their organs. Even if you gave them a good life, do you think that would be justified? Oh, it's not justified now. Yeah. So in the animal context... Yeah, that's the same thing. You know, it's a smartphone. It's not. Yeah. If you ask people what meat do you eat, what eggs do you eat, are always humane, free-range, grass-fed, because they're advertising to these people they don't know. We go in there with cameras, suffering birds, this and that. My position is it's unethical to kill an animal if there's no justifiable reason to. I think that's like murder. And you can never be sure that the animals have been treated. They're units of production. You should go vegan. You know so much. You might as well be an activist. I don't know. Step by step. I want to like... How long ago did you go vegetarian? Five years. You said step by step. When's the next step? Yeah, I know. I don't know. To be honest, I'm not sure I will stop eggs. Why? Because like, for example, my parents have like... Backyard eggs. Yes. So for me, like, it's okay. Do you eat eggs outside your parents' house? Yes. Okay. But I like, for example, when I buy cakes in the grocery store or something... You don't check? Yeah, I check. I want to make sure that we have free-range eggs, for example, for biscuits or something. I don't want to buy it when it's not. But you know, the problem with the egg industry is they're pushing so many eggs out, they become exhausted and they go to the slaughterhouse. Yes. You don't eat meat because you don't want animals to be slaughtered. Yeah, but it's... But eggs laying hence still get slaughtered. I know, I know. But you know, it's more like it's less direct, you know. It's indirect, so it's easier to do. Yes, to do it. Yes. You stop eating meat, right? But as a vegetarian, because I talk to a lot of vegetarians, and I'm always curious, how can they still eat eggs and dairy? Is there another level of disconnect? Because it's not... Yeah. It's not the meat. For me, I mean, I can't eat egg because I can't stomach what I'm looking at, which is what should have been a chicken but unfertilized. But I can eat things with that in it, because I don't make that same connection. I don't stroke eggs. It's not an animal. It comes out of them. No, it comes out of an animal. I appreciate that. But for me, it just feels like it's not quite the same connection. Yeah. I can disconnect that. But only to the point that I don't think about too much. This is not something you would see back in, maybe 2,000 years ago when we're no tribes, then this would never happen. But I think if you go back 2,000 years to the real existence of a human now, a human would live in the old days, that's I think how we should have lived, then you still... So, let's go back there. We have some cows. Let's just say we have some potatoes, and we're not in a survival starvation situation. We've got a choice to create crops and grow potatoes and plants and get our nutrition from plants. And we have a choice to raise cows, give them good lives and shoot them all in the head. Do you think that that's the right thing to do? Back then, yeah, I think so. Because that was to survive. Taking survival out of the picture. My question to you is, do you want to go back to the way we lived back then? Like where we were raising animals and killing them? Clearly we can't. But that way of living was a good... It was a justify. It was a good... It was a circle of life. So if we don't need to do it to survive, is it justifiable then? No, I don't think so. Yeah, yeah. You know, in Spain, they will have a pig in the village that they raise and that pig gets stroked and everyone plays with it and everyone loves it and all the children love it. And then one day they'll have a great big barbecue and the pig will be there being eaten. I've seen. And that's really, really, really hard to get your head around but it is part of the culture and they do it. The only benefit I can see from it is nothing's wasted. I mean, people get fed. There are a few benefits, but I don't think the benefits outweigh the detriment, like the injustice. I mean, I could kill a person. I could say I ate them all, you know, Jeffrey Dahmer stuff. I don't think nothing went to waste. I know, I know, I know exactly. But it is ingrained. It is traditional, it's cultural, all those factors. But that's why we dislike people like yourself who do care. I know we can't solve all the problems in the world. There's a lot of horrible things, but... If just everyone made a slight contribution, I think it's just everyone. You're going to have, you know, a 25% population who aren't interested and that's fine and you can't blame them for it. But I just think if everyone else who can make a decision makes a decision, I think perhaps... The only people that we can count on are people like you because you've already given up me. Yes, I know. All these other people that don't care, we've got no hope because we can't rely on like a lot of people, man. Like you at least, you have something there. Then you put it to the side and say, that's my first step, step by step. But then 10 years go by. I always like to ask if people actually even care about animals. Some people don't. I think everyone knows Bucket Bear had it strong, but I mean, I think it's hard to implement change for many. Yeah. We couldn't, well, we could like individually you can, but these things are a major corporation to turn. Of course. And, you know, I can't stop all the wars, all the child abuse and all of that. So you're taking on the weight of the entire industry right now in your mind. When I talk about, hey, don't murder people. You don't go where you're, you're not going to stop all the murders, man. So I don't know if I've got... Yeah. I'm talking about personal accountability right now for what you do. That's a good argument. And no one's going to judge you out here for going and buying a steak. This is something that only you, your conscience can do. That's why it's a powerful thing. The more people that do change, like say you used to change today and you're like, you know what, I'm not putting my money into supporting these industries. And then you change 10 people over your life just by living that way and talking to people. You've made a massive impact. Think about over the course of your entire life, it's been 30 years from now, how many animals have gone to the slaughterhouse for you? They're loads, yeah. A few thousand, I don't really know the numbers. It's like, got to be a lot. That's not just the slaughterhouse, it's suffering, it's cruelty, and things that you just put in the back of your mind. No. There's no industry on earth that we do this to humans. There's no legal industry on earth where we do anything like this to humans. Legal, not legal, no. No, this is legal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because illegally it happens, bro. You can talk about there's bad working conditions, things like that, torture, slavery, and murder on a massive scale where we eat the victims. This is not happening to humans. No. No, and it's also not in our natural instinct. And when war crimes happen, when these murders happen to human beings, it's at our age and it should be, and we have human rights protecting us, but bad things still happen, they don't even have rights. I know. No, I think that another is a problem. Yeah, they don't want to change it, I think, because that's always the money, isn't it? Yeah. Who gives them the money? Yeah, of course. Well, us and, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Well, thank you. You did. You used to give them money. Thanks for sharing this. Good to speak to you. It's good to be talking to you, too. Take care. See you later. Are you Joey Kalbstrom? Yes. Well, of course. Hello. I'd like to recognize you. Who are you? I'm Ellie. Hello, Ellie. Are you a vegan? Oh, you're going to hate me. I'm vegetarian. Oh, I know that you caused what happened to the animals on the screen. I know. It's all on you. I know. Not all on me. Yeah, no. You, you alone. Now, when are you going to go vegan? Uh, I've tried. What happened? One day. One, well, what happened? I was a meat eater at the time and I tried. Ah, now you have it. So now you went to meat eater to vegetarian. This is the middle ground for me. I'm doing my best. Is it really your best? I'm vegan. And I'm, you seem a lot more bright than me. Thanks. Yeah, I'll get there one day. Yeah. Maybe today. Change. Maybe this is your sign, actually. I think it is. It is. Maybe your conscience has been eaten out. You're like, maybe I'll see Joey Kalbstrom one day and he'll tell me off. Maybe. He's got it. Maybe. I'm going to France next week. So, I mean, it's fine. There's a lot of vegan in France. Amazing. You've gone to Paris? I'm going to South France. You just happy cow? Happy cow. It's the best app ever. You find vegan stuff everywhere. This is my issue. I've been to France before and all that exists on this cheese and bread because that's all I can find. Happy cow. Okay. Bless you. New vegan. Ellie the vegan. I'm going to change your Instagram handle.