 Check it, check it, it's a unique house, it's your boy, E.C.E.O., and I'm here with the lovely, amazing official, Ms. Jamaica. What's going on? Nothing, nothing. You know my dad will walk around. Man, hey man. Hey, this is a date that the Lord has made, I rejoice and be glad in it, man. Hey man, just a dope platform to be on, man. Make sure you guys like and subscribe to our channel, man. Hey, man. All of our platforms. Yeah, on every streaming platform, right? Yeah, sir. Man, hey, man, we got a special guest in here today. You really don't need no introduction, man. This guy right here, dope. If you've ever been in trouble, you need to, who you going to call? You know what I'm saying? This guy right here is the guy to call, man. Mr. David Hudson, what's going on, man? I'm turning David Hudson, huh? I appreciate you. Man. So how long have you been, how long have you been, you know, practicing law, man? Since 2009. 2009? That's right. So, man, just we, we definitely want to know how long you been practicing law. No, but we want to go back. I want to go back. You always want to go back. I always want to go back way back. She want to know when you were. When you were stealing a snack case like me out at Bubba Lane store, shout out to Bubba Lane. You know. We want to know about you. Bring in everything. So where are you from? Okay. So how were you raised, controversies you went through when you were younger? All of that. Let's go ahead and tell us a spill. Absolutely. So my mom and my dad are from Birmingham, Alabama. Okay. Man, they racist down there. No, I'm just kidding. We actually go down there. We've interviewed down there dope, dope, dope, man. I love it. Yeah. Okay. And I was, but I was raised in Texas. Okay. And Waco. Okay. So the mom and dad moved out here. Yeah. So it ends up happening. My old man was a basketball coach in college. So he ended up going from Ole Miss, first to Houston. He worked at Rice. Okay. So we lived there first. Then he went back. We went back to Alabama and then we moved back to Waco. He worked at Baylor. And so I was in the second grade. Okay. And so we was there ever since. Wow. So Waco, man. Waco, Waco, whatever. You know, it's been a lot of David Cares, crazy things happen down there. The bikers. I remember the bikers had the issue down there. That's right. I think some stuff blew up down there too. I think it's crazy in Waco. It does. It does. What was it like growing up out there? So it's kind of interesting though. So it ends up happening. When we first moved to Waco, I'm the youngest of six. Okay. I have five older sisters. I'm the only boy. Right? Baby boy. Right. So it ends up happening. When we first moved there, I went to a school called Midway. Okay. Midway would be the equivalent of probably Allen, Frisco. Okay. Rich area. So I'm like that suburb. Right? That was my introduction into, you know, elementary school and going on. Well, my parents, they split, right? So my older sister- How old were you when that happened? I was in, about to go from elementary to the junior high. Okay. Right? So they split. Life changes. Right? So my oldest sister, she lived in the city, across the tracks. And so I told my mom. I was like, man, this, and this is back, it looks different now. Back in those days, you may have been one of three to five blacks in the school. Yeah. Okay. So then, you know, on the other side of the tracks of my sister, that's where it was happening, whatever. So I told my mom. I was like, I don't want to go to the school no more. She was like, my mom green as they come. Yeah. Yeah. She ain't know what was going on. Right. Well, what do you mean blah, blah, blah? So I'm knowing like, I'm seeing socially this, this ain't it. No. I need to go be around some old people that look more like me. You understand what I'm saying? So then I used my sister's address and went to that school. And then that's pretty much that transition is kind of what led me to the path to be talking to you. Wow. But how was it like, how did it affect you when your mom and dad broke up? It somewhat just, come on, man, was always on the road anyway, because he was recruiting and stuff like that. So they didn't feel like it. So as far as him physically not being there, you know what I'm saying, nothing really changed or whatever. But then in certain times it's having that, that middle, because all my uncles and stuff mind you in Alabama. So I'm talking to them on the phone, but it's different when you get, you can just sit there and touch somebody. You know what I mean? So basically I just had to navigate the waters myself and take on responsibilities that are, you know what I'm saying, at an early age and just figure it out. But your father still played part in your life, although they were broken up? To a certain extent, you know what I mean? It definitely was a difference and I'm, I'm being kind of, I don't want to just blast him, you know what I'm saying? Because I respect him as a man, but I know him as my, as my dad. So it's a difference. You understand what I'm saying? So in this life we live, you have different roles to where as you can be a good husband and a horrible father and vice versa, or you can be great at both. You understand what I'm saying? When you get older, you realize that parents are humans as well, especially when you get older. So when you're a kid, you look at them as a superhero. That's right. Yeah, but, but let me just stop y'all for a minute. You know, there is no perfect father and there's no book or guidance to being a father. There is a perfect father. So, you know, God, of course, but I'm just saying, you know, every time, even me being a father and having children now, it's trial and error. We're trying to understand how to do the certain things. I might think I'm doing a great job. But then you hear, Hey, man, I didn't like this part. So it's a gray area to be in a father that a lot of times, especially people that look like us go through trying to get this understood. And then when you start looking and tapping back into the things that happened to us for as mentally beforehand with their father, you start to see why the these old these obstacles, obstacles are happening. You start to see these different things, these generational curses, cycling, you know, through. So I think a lot of time it's all a lot of not just blacks, either. It's all type of issues when it comes to testosterone between two men. It's real. Am I right? Absolutely. A thousand percent. So that's the whole game. I think a lot of time, because everybody that's sitting that seat, the number, the number is very low when it comes to the percentage of I had a great life with my father. That ain't happening in that seat. So that tells me that that this is something that is the devil is playing with our people with as well. Right. You see what I'm saying? So that but but then it helps us in the long run because it makes us strive a lot of times to do better a lot of times because of the things we face as children trying to understand what was going on with that man. That's supposed to be my dad, right? And if not for real, he was going on with that man. It was supposed to have been my dad when things were happening in my life and I needed him and he wasn't there for me. A lot of times we don't we don't understand until we get over here and over here. We be tripping. That's not real. That's real. Until we get older and we put that same hat on and then we then you start to understand to realize you have any children. You don't. Right. Right. One one. So you start to understand, damn, it ain't as easy as it looked. But not only that, once you start to research and realize how your father grew up, because everybody's cases is a little bit different sometimes. Sometimes you realize how he grew up and a lot of times people overcompensate for what they didn't have. Exactly. So like maybe he grew up where he didn't have money. So he makes sure work is put off to provide for you, although he didn't provide emotional support because he was not there. He was not there for you. But in his mind, he's like he's doing what he's supposed to do as a father because he's providing financially. And a lot of men tend to do that. Like my role as a father and a lot of men do this is to go out here and be the breadwinner. Make sure that you have a roof over your head. Anything that you want, you can get, da, da, da. But you don't realize that in life, and this is this goes across the board for everybody, we have to learn how to balance. We tend to do one thing so much because that's what we think that we're supposed to do, that we're like, OK, how can we balance spending time with you but still going out here and getting a bread because I can't spend all the time with you because you ain't going to have a roof over your head. That's right. You know what I mean? I got to be able to balance both to be able to and that's life period. Work-life balance is something in itself. You know what I mean? Facts. It's something. It's a big deal. But let's get down to you, Dave, man. Let's just talk about it, man. Let's get into the fact of how, you know, how were you able to beat these odds? How were you able to push through? You see what I'm saying? Absolutely. And is that what you wanted to do as a child growing up? So it's an interesting story. So get ready. So I'm a fast forward though until when I was in high school. Okay. So boom, I ended up going, you know, standing at school, district or whatever, 15, 16, 17 years old. I'm off the porch all the way in, whatever. Whatever. I'm down for whatever. Chasing the money, whatever come with it. Exactly. So boom, but just being naive as a youngster, I know I thought you had to do something to go to jail. Okay. Because that's what you taught. You think that, right? Right. But that is not the case. Absolutely not. So boom, I'm like, I'm thinking, you know, I'm live. I don't know how to do it. Exactly. So me and one of my best friends who just got out of prison, he did 23 on the 40. Wow. So I'm 16 at the time. He's 17. We get charged with attempted capital murder on the police officer. What? Facts. In high school. In high school. Facts. So that's when, clearly, I'm here talking to you today. So you know, it had to end up a certain way, but it was bogus. Like straight up, they was lying. If we would have had cameras back then, because back then we just had pages. But we had cameras back then. This would have been all over. You understand? Yeah. And so my problem, the long story short, he ended up getting. Keep going. He ended up getting shot by the police. We ended up going to jail. And they first charged us initially with attempted capital on the police officer. I don't even have a gun. So I don't know how you can try to kill somebody. Much less a police officer. You don't have no type of weapon or whatever. Did the other guy have a gun? He did have a gun. Did he shoot at the police? No. And I'm not just like, how many are you talking? I'm that I'm seeing the whole the whole thing. And he went to trial. 12 people convicted him of something that did not happen. I'm there. You understand what I'm saying? So now I'm like, You're there just to watch because you witness a witness. First one on stand. Yeah. And you're trying to tell them they charge both of you with that. Right. So exactly initially. And then my charge ended up getting dropped to evading. Back then evading was a misdemeanor. That's right. You know what I'm saying? So you pay a little money, get out of jail and you good. And I'm good. Little bull crap deferred. And I'm back at it or whatever. So when that happened to him and he goes down, he gets a 40. We 18. Is that what he just got out of him? Just wow. Yeah. Just got a couple of years ago. And you see, you don't have a lot of evidence back there. So you can't you can't even say nobody pick up his case and say try to get him off. Like on some appeal or something like that. He exhausted his appeals while he was in, you know, in TDC. But it's hard to turn over. How many appeals can you get? You know what I mean? So yeah. How many appeals? How are you allowed? Three. You get three. And then you can go to the Supreme Court in the United States. That's right. But by the time they hear your case, you're probably on parole. Because it takes you out. Oh, okay. Yeah. So when that happened to him or what not, I'm like, hold on. How you go to jail for that and you ain't did. You didn't do that or whatever. So now boom, it's going to happen again or whatever. So now I'm okay. That won't happen again to nobody on my watch. Wow. So you basically went to school for it because of what happened in your life. That's right. So when that happened and you said, okay, I'm going to go to school for that. How what avenue do you take as anybody thinking about I'm going to school for a lawyer that, oh, that's expensive. That takes a long time. You know, how hard was it for you to do that? Not not school was kind of it was kind of easy. It's just reading in memory to be honest with you. Math is application. You know what I mean? But outside of that, it's just it's reading in memory. You know, that was always easy to me or whatever. So and I and I hooped in high school and I was forced enough to go to play in college or whatever. So that took care of undergrad. So you already was he playing basketball with you and everything back? No, he played football at the time. Okay. But by the time we got jammed up. What grade was your grade? 12th grade. 12th grade. Yeah. By the time he got jammed, he was already he wouldn't he wasn't playing no more. No, he was trying to get to that. Get to that. That's right. To keep in contact with him. To this day. Matter of fact, I'm about to meet him when I leave y'all. He up in Dallas. It was he he from. He from Waco. But he came up to Dallas today. How was it during the time he was locked up? You guys, I'm pretty sure you try to keep money on his books and try to look out for him. Because you knew that this guy was innocent. Pell Grant is going to some going to my partner. Right. And that's why I like I know I'm in school, mind you. So when I tell these youngsters that I represent, man, look out for your partner, man. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes it's not even about the money. It's a drop. They want to know what's going on out here. Send them a couple of pics. You understand what I'm saying? My partner did 23. Yeah, I write people now. Well, I'll write. I'll pick up being right in a minute. Absolutely. Because I know already that it means something to them. Absolutely. But a curious part to him. The first thing that came out of my mind is how angry he is at the justice system. How angry he was. How long did it take him to get over it? Did he ever get over it? I'm bringing him on the show. Absolutely. For show. I got to get him on here. Now he's a Muslim now or whatever. So his outlook is a lot different. Just know the maturation process. So when I was writing him, I was like, man, what's happening? You know, why did you join this? And he told me he said, man, it's all type of games and TDC or whatever he said. But the Muslims was the only one that I saw doing stuff to keep their people out of jail, as opposed to taking care of them when they was in jail. And so, and he's a, you know, he's in the leg. He's a thinker. So boom. So when he got out, name change, he got his beard. Yeah. Exactly. But I mean, he told me the first probably 10, 15 years, he didn't think he was getting out. So he was wired up. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot trying to make it through. Exactly. And then telling people, you hear people say, hey, man, I didn't do nothing to beat out of you. They lied on me and everybody like me, everybody didn't say the same. Yeah, that's a lot of saying. And it's very hard, man, because nobody believes you. That's right. So that guy had to go through it, man. You know, and I know it's a lot more of him in there. That ain't, he ain't the only one. That's a lot of them, bro. That's right. Blacks have been targeted, like the boy sick said, little sick, shout out a little sick. He said, man, when I come to Texas, I'm being haunted, man. He said, I can go out here to LA and have Benzes and Bentley's and be with hundreds and thousands of gang members and feel safe. But when I come home to Texas, I feel like I'm being haunted. That's real. You believe they do tell them to follow you? Absolutely. He said they drug dealer or something else. They arrested him. He said he didn't even, they didn't even give him no pro, no why. They just let him go and didn't even tell him nothing. Yeah. Yeah. When I'm, when I'm not coming from court, because that's suit and ties is a uniform. Yeah. This is our address. Yeah. I didn't have to get at them, but I talk cash noise because I know y'all can't fool me. So come on with it. That's another question I want to ask, because I know that a lot of it is ignorance, the way how a lot of people, like when they get stopped by the police and stuff like that of how to act and so forth. But I know some people who say, well, I know the law, so whenever they stop me, I'll say my rights, I'll say this, I'll say that. But how much does that help you knowing the law? Because then if they wanted to treat you a certain way, they're going to treat you a certain way, regardless of you knowing what you know or not. Is that true or not? That is true. The best, the best weapon that you have now is his phone. Press record, put that mess up there. And then, you know, let the chips fall where they fall. Because we'll get to it later on, but like, because I also worked on the Craig Watkins on down. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, and I doubt that was, we'll get to that. Craig Watkins, he did a lot getting people out of prison. You helping him with that? Man, it was, it was a great time to be a prosecutor under Craig Watkins. Wow. I bet it was because he, he was something else, man. I used to, I seen those guys he got out. I think that was pretty much kind of pushed him into a corner too in his career right now. In my side, I'm on the outside looking at him. You can tell they kind of, they didn't like that. They didn't like the way he moved. It's politics. Everything is politics. Absolutely. Yeah. So when you, when you decided to go to school, you say you stayed focused, you made it through. What were some of the things that you thought about as you was going through the process? Well, so I didn't get the real college experience until I went to law school. And what I mean by that, you know, when you play basketball, you, it's like a, you have like a secretary inside and say, okay, this is your degree plan. You getting in all your classes. It's not, you don't, wait, let's, what? You know, I mean. I love you. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's done. You play sports. Yeah. Exactly. So after that, when I went to law school, there ain't no secretary. I'm like, I got to wake up in the morning, wait in line and go, I just can't, and the class is full. What? You understand what I'm saying? So I'm like, man. Wake up call. What? For real. Wake up call. So which was good. You know what I mean? You needed that. Exactly. So going through that, having to grow up, I'm, my uncle, I have an uncle that really just looks out for me in Birmingham, Rob Bailey. So shout out to him. Shout out Rob Bailey. So he, he held me down and then, of course, I'm a mama's boy. So we grinded and got through it or whatever. So how many years did it take you to get everything? Three. Oh, come on. Just a whole thing. So four years of undergrad and then three years of law school. Cool. Yeah, I always heard it take about seven, six, seven years. But you did it in the right amount of time. Right. When you came out, what was the, what, what? I know you can't talk about everything. Before you get into that section, I want to say, what misconception did you have about law? Before you got in like, you know, people think, oh yeah, I'm going to law school. I can do this. I can do that, that, that. But once you started learning about law, what blew your mind? So getting into law school, you have this, it's a test that you take, right? It's called the LSAT. Has nothing to do with law school. Nothing. It's just a weed not processed. Like it's nothing. Like they trying to like test your logic. Yeah, intellect. Bull crap. You understand what I'm saying? Is this a way to keep people out? Is I'm just being 100 with you. Really? Yes. So, man. How did you beat it? So you, you, you just studied. He just passed. So yeah. So you, you wired up to think, oh, because I got to do this and blah, blah, blah, blah to get into this good school. Yada, yada, yada. Then once you get to school, it has nothing to do. You feel like you've been duped. Like, man, I didn't go through all this for this. This ain't got nothing to do. Okay. Boom. So you get into law school and it's a, it's a, it's like the best of the cream of the crop is there. Right. And so everybody is used to being that dude in school or that lady in school or whatever. So now you got all these quote unquote, those people competing. So law school is scaled. So you can just say we have a hundred people in the section. They only issue out a certain amount of A's, right? Certain amount of B's, certain amount of C's. Some are paid for. So the average grades are going to be come from the C because it's your average in a bunch of above average. You understand what I'm saying? But you ain't thinking about that. You like a B, it may never be in my life. What's happening? But it's not that your prep was bad. It's just that we only have six A's we can get out. Wow. That's crazy. Even if you scored all of it, did us allow six A's. Like it's a, I'm just using that as a, you know, as an arbitrary number. But yeah, like literally, like depending on let's say if it's X amount of students in this section. Okay. We got 10 A's to give out. That pick and choose. Okay. Let me go. This is third generation lawyers. Let me make sure I give it to them because... Let me go back. I want to go backwards a little bit. I want to talk about the officer that all this supposed that had happened to. Yeah. I want to talk about where he at. What happened to him later on? Did you ever run back into him? Because at the end of the day, you in Waco and it's not that big of a town. So I'm just, I just know because I can from experience tell you going through a situation, coming back, sitting in a car looking at the guy that had did certain things to me. So just, I understand that because I've been riding down the road and look over and say, man, that's, I ain't gonna say his name. I'm like, what the heck? Yeah. You know, so how did that happen? How did, I know you ran into those scenarios. What was that with that? Okay. So boom, fast forward, right? Schools all the way down that type of stuff. So it was, it was probably give or take, I'm going to say at least 10 officers. Because by the time we got out the car, they had us surrounded. So we take off, they lit it up or whatever. They shot it? Oh God. Yeah. My partner got shot three times. The one that went to prison? Yeah. He has lead in him today. If he walks through a metal detector, it's going to go out. Wow. I thought they had downed him because when they pulled them from behind the bush, thank God. Yeah. Had you covered for a bigger plan? So let's talk about these law officers. They did, this was a cover up job. And you knew all 10. I didn't know all of them. Like know their faces, like. Five of them I know. Okay. I couldn't forget them. I bet you could, man. I can't forget them. What made those five stand out from the others? Anger. I was, that's how hot I was. Because at the end of the day, y'all are lying. And you know you lying. And I can't prove this, but I believe that the prosecutor know that it's some Fuguesi stuff going on. And the reason I say that, because before my partner went to trial, they came with him with a plea off of a 10. Who gets a dime on attempted caliber on the police officer? In Texas. Yeah, that don't. You see what I'm saying? But I feel as though they knew if he beats trial or we dismiss this case, he's suing us because he got shot wrongfully. You understand what I'm saying? So now like you were saying the political pressures and you know, but at the same time it's like, what's your moral compass? You can get another job, Mr. Prosecutor. But this is affecting people's lives. And like how they tried to come at me. Like I said, I'm a juvenile at the time. And I'm not even knowing what I'm doing when it's happening. You understand what I'm saying? This is, I ride with my partner. You understand what I'm saying? So they came at me and was like, hey, so you said this isn't this. I'm like, no, I didn't. I didn't say that because it was three of us. Right. So like, no, I didn't say that. Well, yes, you didn't blah, blah, blah, blah. So this one, the first assistant, he takes me into the head prosecutor's office at the time and they got me cornered in. And they're like, you said this and you're going to say this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I don't know what y'all talking about. Son, do you know what perjury is? This is where this is coming at me. And I don't know what it is. So you know, this is what it is. And you know, I said, man, listen, I'm not, we're not after you. We're after him and all this type of stuff. So I said, listen, if it's going to be some lie, it's going to be some lie. And they help my partner get out of jail. Do what you got to do. If I got to run and go to jail, hurry up and let's run. So I can go on and get back and handle my business because at the end of the day, I don't know too many great people that haven't had to go to jail. You knew this at that age? Yeah. And you told them that? Straight up. And so now, but at the particular time, I got braids down my back. So they're looking at like, okay, you know, so then when they know I wasn't budging, they come back and say, oh, we apologize. We got you mixed up with the other person who was in the car with y'all. I just know y'all got me mixed up, period. No, he's got the same evading charge, whatever. Did he sign or did he do anything towards him? No, he wouldn't know. He didn't do no funny business. Yeah, exactly. What the hell was saying? I'm not knowing I'm being solid. I just know I'm not about to help. You know, this ain't about to happen. And if I got to go to jail with my partner on some stuff I didn't do, it's destiny because there's a lot of people who went to jail that didn't deserve to go to jail. Who am I? That's right. You understand what I'm saying? So, but yeah, everything worked out. Your mama must have been freaking out at this time. Yes, she was. She wasn't trying to hear it. And this is why I know prayer is real. You understand what I'm saying? Because it's been many times, it's like not knowing the law at the particular time. It's been many nights I haven't rode around with a life sentence in the truck. Then you know, you understand what I'm saying? And it's just, that wasn't the path. And so I know it's had some people that was looking over me, you understand what I'm saying? But you know what I always say about life? You still have to be in those places and know those things to be able to touch the people you're touching today. Because if you didn't understand it, because there's a lot of lawyers who've never been in the life that you had. Absolutely. That can't defend somebody. They just defend it because they're a job, but don't know. But I want to make sure we talk. So you've seen some of those guys afterwards Yeah. So I ran into one at a, I think it was at a Water Burger or something, right? He knew you. Now he didn't know me, because it's years in the past. You know what I'm saying? I'm looking different. Shamed up and all. Right. But I know him. Yeah. Now mind you, a lot of these officers end up getting fired for stealing time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But they already was lies. I knew this. So anyway, long story short, I'm up in the Water Burger and he comes in and he was even in his uniform. I just, I just remember. You know him because you remember what they done. So he's like, hey, man, how's it going on? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Well, and I know he probably like. Why didn't he get acting like that? Exactly. You understand? So it's, it's having that restraint. Because I wanted to tell you I do more. Me and you both, I done seen it. Yeah. When you done been put in those situations where people railroaded you or try to do your injustice and you know they was wrong, it's hard to even be in the same space with them. You lied on my partner and you tried to down me. Yeah. So there's nothing to talk about. We could never be friends or never even, I don't even talk to you. I don't even see you dead to me. And that's the way you be thinking, man. I got to move on with life. But my question is, because I know earlier you said that the prosecutor could, could, could go, could take another job. You know, in that case like that. But politics is politics. Like couldn't some prosecutors also be fearful for their lives because of the police and stuff like that? How does that play a part? Technically, yes. Down there. Nah, they ain't rocking like that. You understand what I'm saying? I'm going to tell you the difference. Because so when I got to law school, I lived in California, I lived in LA for two years. Okay. I did, I was a sports agent, a workforce, did sports entertainment before I came back to Texas. Whatever. You know, I came back to Texas and my mom got sick. She had heart attack. So she was recovering or whatever. She pulled me to the side and it was like, she ain't never asked me this in my life. She's like, uh, you think you can move back close at all? Yeah. You be like, what's wrong? What happened? Oh, coming home. It's like, I guess so. Like it's understood. Because she's always, if the opportunity is there, she knows they was gone, whatever it is. So when I came back, so now I got to sit for the Texas bar exam. Right? I thought you did California. Yeah. So boom. And so everybody I know, like I was saying, is getting in trouble or related to somebody that I grew up with. So it just kind of fell in, you know, because I'm like, dang, okay. So now what do you get the best training to fight the people is you have to learn how they work. How they work. So almost like on some spook that's set by the door type time, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I, but luckily enough for me, I was, I came up here. I didn't, I didn't practice down there as a prospect. I came up here and it was, it was hard because it's like, at that time, like the police. Yeah. The police. Wow. About that. I'll figure something else out. And then my uncle and one of my OG partners put me to the side and gave me the game. It's like, listen, we understand what you're saying, but you also have the power to cut that bull crap out as well. That's right. Because you have a power to dismiss cases and blah, blah, blah. Go learn the game. So then you equip yourself with that knowledge. So then when you go out and defend, you're ready. And it was like a pill that you, I had to swallow. I ain't like it. Yeah. Just because of how my, you know what I'm saying? I was raised like, nah, we don't do that. So luckily enough for me, Craig Watkins at the time is like the first black district attorney in the state of Texas. So it's history going on. But the difference is this, like, this is how this is the latitude that Craig had gave us as prosecutors. You read the police report, right? And you sit there and you say, it looked like that was driving white black or driving white Hispanic or whatever. Right. So you just missed that case. You write up why and that's what it is. You're not having to go all the way up and ass, such and such and such. So that's what justice is. You know, like you have to be affirmative and seek out justice as a prosecutor. And sometimes justice is telling the police, this is how this works. Yeah. There's a such thing as the Constitution, Jack. Let me sit down with you and show you how this goes. So every time I get one of your police reports, it looks like this. It's gone. We dismissing this case or whatever. That's the latitude we had in Dallas. Now, that's probably one in, that's not how it works. That ain't how it works. Typically it's, dang, this is messed up. But let me see how I can cover for the police to work. You see what I'm saying? And so it ends up happening. A lot of people who are indigent end up having to have quarter-pointed representation, right? Yeah. And quarter-pointed attorneys get a bad reputation, but all of them not bad. It's just the problem is, once you find out you're a lawyer bad, it's probably too late, you know what I mean? So what happens is, let's say for instance, you was pulled over for an illegal reason. There was no reason for you to get pulled over. You have a prosecutor that is going to, some prosecutors are going to say, let me call an officer such and such and see what we can cook up to make, to cook, see what's going on. Because at that particular time, and I don't even think now, web dash cams and body cams weren't mandatory. Right. You would have it or you didn't have it. Or you could have it and say, it's malfunctioning, we lost the footage and all that type of stuff, right? Okay, bam. So let me call an officer such and such and get this right. And then they proceed. But then you could have another prosecutor that's like, oh no, no, no, no, no. This is wrong. That ain't how we do things. I'm not going to wait on this defense attorney to file a motion to suppress because he might not be that savvy. Yeah. But at the same time, this man's freedom was jeopardized and it was illegal. So I'm going to be proactive. It's not going to matter who his attorney is. I know this was wrong. We're going to dismiss this case. I'm going to call this officer in and we're going to have a conversation and hopefully it won't happen again. Wow. Yeah. But typically that's not what it is. There's so many different guys that Craig Joachim's got released back then. I remember the book, I got a book at the house that remember Kelly, the guy she was with, I got that book. It had a lot of people in there that had been wrongfully prosecuted and just, man, how often does this happen? And is it getting better? Will it ever get better? No. And I'm going to tell you just my own opinion. My own opinion. The problem I see is that, okay, when this whole legal process starts, the police are typically responding to something. Rarely they witness something while it's happening. Somebody's called them, you know what I'm saying? So that's where they go. Then they pass it off. They hand up a ton to the prosecutor's office, to the intake, right? Yeah. So at the end of the day, and then that prosecutor, he decides or she decides whether to, and we're going to indict this and take it to the grand jury to try to get an indictment, we're going to shoot it back and say, there's not enough evidence, et cetera, et cetera. Some of them rubber stamp everything that comes through. You understand what I'm saying? And a lot of people don't know, you also have a right to be heard at grand jury. Nobody ever goes there. You know what I'm saying? So the season, it's been many a times where I've got cases dismissed at the grand jury level, because we put together what is called a grand jury packet. Because if the grand jury's not hearing your side of the story, all they have to go by. It's the other side. That's right. Police report. So boom, you can get in front of it a lot of times. So with that being said, it's like y'all are two different entities and haven't till I prosecuted it. You're not the police. It's okay. They get it wrong, they're human. Stop covering for them. Yeah. Because how are they going to learn and get better if you rubber stamp and everything they bring in here? It's almost a stigma as if the police officer are not that smart. I'm being honest with you. When you look at social media and when you look at all these different things that are happening in society today, a lot of the officers seemed that they did not get educated on law. Why is that? Probably a few things. I think it's a shortage of... Am I thinking correctly? Yeah, no, you're right. It's a shortage of law enforcement period, right? Qualified law enforcement. But they say we still have to have these streets patrolled, et cetera, et cetera. So they hurrying up and getting them qualified and putting them out there. Right. So it's like any other job. It means you're going to a restaurant and we have a bad waitress. We just don't tip them and we don't come back. People go into jail when it's an unseasoned police officer, as I know, and it's a whole different ballgame. It's serious. And the thing is I know how it feels when them steel doors close. You understand? It's cold and they bringing them bologna sandwiches and apples and oranges at the book. I know, but I don't... Their average law enforcement, they've never been in them shoes. So it's like, well, we'll arrest them and the prosecutors can figure it out. But that's an experience, even if you're going into a holding tank. Yeah, it's horrible. But a couple of louds, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's very, very bad. But then I would think, because, you know, I watch movies. I watch a lot of them. And I know that a lot of these things that happen in movies, especially with stuff like that, it's a concern. It is reality. And so how true are the cases where, like when you have a bad police officer and you have other people above them, they tend to try to help that person cover it up. That's the blue coat, ain't it? Yeah, because... Okay, this is the reason why I'm thinking because. It's not the fact that, okay, I know you're wrong, so I'm going to get you in trouble, you know, whatever. But they know that if this person gets in trouble, it's going to open a whole bunch of work. Other cases. And other cases, and they don't want to have to go through that because they're going to now start looking into the department and a whole bunch. They just don't want to have to deal with all of that. So let me just go ahead and cover you up. Even if I have to fire you for stealing hours, you know, that's lesser than all the crap that I could... You know what I mean? That's facts. And it's funny you said that because I was just having to come and say for my partner about something almost similar. And that is this. When, for instance, because this is what you hear, this is what I hear. Well, all police officers ain't bad and blah, blah, blah, blah. I agree. All people ain't bad, all people ain't good regardless what they do for a living. I get that. Right. But here's the deal. Here's the difference. And then I had this conversation with a police officer. If you were riding in the car with your partner and you see him do something that you know is wrong, are you going to go tell him? Most of the time they not, bro. 99.9% of the time you not... It depends on seniority. If the person who saw him, the person who did it, is more of a rookie than the person who saw him, then he has authority to say, hey, da, da, da, da. But if the person who saw it is more green than the person who actually did it, then he not going to say no. Everybody not like on training day. Right. You know what I'm saying? You can say no. No, no, that's all I'm saying. That's exactly what you just said. You know what I mean? That's a movie. Most of the time these guys in cahoots with each other and people's lives are being thrown around like it's nothing. That's my issue. They don't snitch on each other when they know something is wrong, right? But here's the deal. What's the first thing they try to get you to do? Snitch. Snitch. That's what they do, man. So what's the craziest case that you can think of that you and I know you can't talk about everything but just something that sticks out to you that affected you outside of your friend because that's a cold pill to swallow what you told us. Yeah. Okay, so. It made you cry. That made you cry. My women always on somebody to cry. I don't want them because they made you cry. You're a man, yes. But still, being in the career that you're in, I know you've seen some stuff that just like whether you had to just walk away and go into a room by yourself or whatever because it was that touching, horrifying. Just as a competitor, I hate to lose anything. That's it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's probably the hardest toughest pill. You never get used to that. What? You know what I mean? But here's the deal though. I know what cases to try was because it's not the trial, right? But it's not up to me. So if I'm telling you I'm fine. You don't get to pick and choose. Listen fam, I'm going to be watching you. You got to go sit down, bro. You're not going to beat this. It's just a matter of time. No, man, they don't have to earn that. They're out of touch with reality. Okay. I'm going to put on this suit. I'm going to spray this by number nine. We're going to put on the show. Man. But we going down. It is what it is. So man, it is what it is. I don't want to go under that penitentiary, but I ain't never let these folks, they don't have to earn this. Now, here's the problem. You've been at TDC twice already, right? In which we know your third case, they could put that to Bill Twig on you. 25 to like, none you can do. Either the prosecutor can put it on there, or they can take it off. But there's an, I can't even add, I can't argue it to the judge. Why you something, if you got the two prize, you, that's what it is. Right. So now I'll zero is 25. So the minimum is 25. Try and explain it to listen. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm just telling you. It's reality. They offering 15. You better take it. It's not ag. Man, I'm going to go down there. I'm going to listen to a new number. I'm going to say this. Man, listen. I understand. But it's up to you. Because I'm going home regardless afterwards. But I'm just telling you. Bumping. We, so we're going to rock with it. We're going to try it. Okay, cool. Boom. So boom. We try the case. You know, they go deliberate. So now it's like in the defense attorney community, like if a jury deliberates, if they out for five hours, it's like you got a moral victory. Because you know what I'm saying? Normally a lot of times they come right back guilty. Bam. But moral victories at the end of the day, that's you still going to jail because you came in second place. Boom. So now that you know they go to jail and I'm like, why to that for that, for that long or whatever. It's like, dang. So, but talk about the feds. And you, you, you may know this, but the lay normal lay person is not going to know this. Have you ever heard of something called mis-prison of a family? Mis-prison of a family. Okay. Well, you get a chance when I leave Google. Mis-prison of a family. This is real life talk. It's going to mess you up. Check this out. I had a person come to my office one time, of course it came, name, names, whatever. And it, these interviews were worked at a clinic, right? And this was back when them, them doctors was writing scripts for everything out the doors. People lined up outside. They lit getting it out the door, right? But my client is green. This is his first job at a clinic. And all he had to do, his job description was people come in, you had them a clipboard, they fill out the information, put the information, you file it in this cabinet. That's it. Cool. Never worked at a clinic before. It's not a doctor. You understand what I'm saying? That's what he did. So it'd be in a line outside. He has nothing to compare it to. So to him, that's the norm. Like it's nothing suspicious about that bone. So long story short, Feds come in, rest the doctor, you know, go through the staff. They take him, he arrest my guy. Okay, bam. Charge him with what I just told y'all about, right? This is what it is. If you witness a felony, you don't report it. That's Miss Prism, a felony. Wow. And you don't even know it's happening. So boom. No criminal history. How much time you can get for that? The fair system, it's different because they work off point systems. Miss Prism over felony. So in sentencing in the fair, it's like if you have criminal history or whatever, so it earns points. And then those points will put you in a certain range of punishment, right? And then there's a certain things that can reduce points or whatever. So it just kind of depends or whatnot. So they hit him with this. The man got chiled. Never been to prison before. He doesn't have anything going on. What the doctor got going? He's making $12 out. So he doesn't get no kickbacks from the pharmaceutical. You understand what I'm saying? He's just doing what he's told. Shoot, I'd be like, I don't want none of my record. Just take it off. So then they say, okay, well, we'll give you like some crazy number. 11 months. When the fair is off you 11 months, that means that you know it ain't nothing for real. It ain't nothing for real. But why they, you know what I'm saying? Y'all got the doctor. He goes to trial. They want you to take something. So how am I supposed to know? I'm supposed to report something that I don't know is wrong. Right. You understand what I'm saying? So for everybody out there. Well, he had to do it. He had to go for lemma. Well, no, he could have fought it. I was like, man, listen, this is bogus because let's go before the jury because we have, we're talking about 12 people who don't really likely not going to practice law. So we can put them in your shoes. And if I don't believe they'll be convinced beyond the reasonable doubt. That's it. You see what I'm saying? But then you had a, man, they got a 99%, 90% conviction, right? That's because of everybody, please, bro. That's right. That's why. So you end up, did he end up going before? We had to. Had to. And that is opening clothes for a, you win case to me. You know what I mean? And, but look at how much you have to go through. And you see so many. For nothing, like for nothing, for just, for nothing. And you see so many cases where people are due into accepting those plea bargains when you know that they're trumped up stuff. You know what I mean? They could have gotten off if they had a good lawyer. You've seen a bunch of that. Man, listen. This is, this is where you, I get a lot. Have you ever seen something that just say, man, just let me take something, man. I'm going to go and get that. And you know like, man, we could probably beat this. I'm pleading. Don't do it. I'm going to give you an example. And you get it a lot with these assault family violence. It's, look, if you, if someone calls the police and tries to put you in jail because they mad because they caught you cheating, right? You ain't put your hands on them. Fam, you got to, you can't talk to her no more. It just is what it is. I ain't saying it's not going to be hard on, but you got put in jail, even if it's a misdemeanor. 99.9% of the time they go right back in the same relationship. Quickly. And they won't leave. It's like they have, and they know that all it's going to happen is that they going to end up right back in jail or worse. And little mama, she presses me. I don't understand. I'm looking at you got the police, not me. You the reason why he in jail. I've seen so many times. And he, and he on parole. So they going to set that parole hold on him. So now we got to sit this out. So a prime example. I had a client of mine. He's actually one of my partners. His old, his daughter, he called his old daughter in his house doing grown stuff. You understand what I'm saying? Hey, right. So she ain't beat up and nothing like that. But he grabbed it and he's strong because he been in TDC. You know what I'm saying? So she has like bruises. Bruise marks on her arms. Call the police, blah, blah, blah. But he's on parole. He never messed up. He don't parole like three years. Clean it straight as a whistle. Right. Working whole nine. But at the same time, you want, you want them to be a father to his kids. Well, that discipline is what comes with it as well. You understand what I'm saying now? So they take him to jail on Mr. Mead. He bonds out. Then they come back. They put the blue one on him. Right. A man got rent to pay. Bills to pay. Cardinal Saturday summer. He's in jail basically for being a father to his daughter. Now, mind you, daughter and I already wrote the statement saying, I did this, you know, he didn't, he didn't beat me up or anything like that. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Prosecuted. Well, 12 years ago, he went to jail for assault. We're not going to dismiss it. That's always on your record. So now, and here's the challenges of being not just being an attorney, but just being a man because there's like this, just morality thing that's inside all of it. So now I'm looking at a dude that ain't did nothing wrong in my eyes, right? He about to lose his apartment. His car note. So what I do, fan, don't trip. You're not going to lose your apartment while I'm on this case. You're going to pay for it. Yeah. It's just don't trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Fan was in there like two or three months, four months. You know what I'm saying? He came out solid. So anyways, I'm telling the way I can beat this case, bro. But he can't bond out because he got the blue one. Correct. Whatever. What's that? So blue, I mean, they take it, they take it, they take away the, you can't get released because you on parole. So you got a blue one. That means you stuck until you get that situation that you're in there for taking care of. Or if they parole, if they decided to read, you know, reinstate you. Right. And typically if it's a lot of times, if it's like a theft case or Mr. Meena level or maybe assistant marijuana parole or let you out. But if it's anything that got us all attached to it, you don't see it or whatever. They don't, they don't even care about the particulars. You know what I'm saying? What's going on? So he's in there, time passing. And I'm going back and forth with this prosecutor and she, she's holding stiff. And I'm like, but she knows that this is during COVID. She playing games. So you know, ain't no trials about to happen. Bro, that's the thing, man. How much do racism play? Because when I was dealing with the situations that I've dealt with in the past, I always felt out of place inside of any judicial place. Period. I'm telling you, it just didn't seem like a black person belonged in there. Man, I may be tripping, but it seemed real. It didn't seem like it was for us. And maybe I need to go to Georgia or something. What are you putting up in the black set? Mississippi. Mississippi, Jackson. I bet they got it, but I bet you they ain't got us in there. I really don't think so. I think everywhere you go is the issue like that. No, it, see, I don't know. I hadn't been everywhere. You ain't far off. It's going to be real. But it's even something deeper. I'm not, I wouldn't sit there and say, all of them racist, but there is a disconnect between typically, typically this is how young prosecutors make it so to be in prosecutors. They go to high school. They go to college. They go to law school and they probably be a prosecutor. They ain't got no outside work experience or real life experiences prior to being this assistant prosecutor. So takes for someone who's never been around us. Right? I'm saying they're racist. They ain't just been around. Let me just stop you a little bit. Same thing with a lot of police officers. When you go back, the people that's going to here and going to there and being ended up in these job positions, their mothers, their fathers, their dad is, all of them have been in these circles. This is a strong knit circle where these people only letting the people in. This is a good old boy type system that's going on. I'm telling you. So therefore when you go into it as a person from the outside who never dealt with them, they're not going to rock with you like that. It's just common sense to me. Prime example, when Craig, and that's what was so fascinating about Craig, when you were walking to the courtroom in Dallas, you probably was going to have at least one, if not two, some non minority prosecutors in that work room where they'd be black, where they'd be Hispanic, where they'd be, he was likely in Dallas for sure. You probably going to have a female black judge. Yeah, but that's that's not. He been out of office now for a while. Right. And now you got. Okay. So did that with him going through, it had to change the way things were being done, but did it hold true to it? Or did it just revert back to what it was before? So now we have. Judge Cruz, we're here to judge anymore, but he was when I was practicing as a prosecutor. He was a judge, but then you know, we had that little stint where Susan Hawk was the DA. And for the most part, I didn't see a large seismic shift in new prosecutors at one time. I didn't, you know, like policy may have changed here and there, but as far as it, now it wasn't as dark when Craig was there. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But at the same time, it was, it was okay. It was okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Now I don't know what her, because I never worked for whatever, what the philosophy was. And then like a lot of the people who was there, I trained, you understand? And so it is another thing. A lot of times it's relationships can get stuffed down. Yeah, definitely relationships. So what happened with, remember that, that guy that killed the police officer downtown, he shot a lot of police officers. They downed him with that? Then they downed him with the robot, and then the other guy quit after that. The chief said, I'm out of here. I don't, I didn't really know the ends and out, but I knew there had to be a difficult situation going on. It's more toxic or it's more intense than what we even would know being on the outside looking in. What, how hard is it when you're dealing with them type of situations, man? Because it, Dallas seemed like they, Dallas had a lot. You got to go back all the way to the president getting killed and all kinds of stuff. Dallas has had a lot of stuff to go down in crime world in history, man. Facts. I'm being real. Facts. So how, I mean, so there's a lot of things that happen. I even, I even think of what's the name, John Wilder Price. He won his case, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Stuff like that. I'll be like, yeah, like we got one. He's still his problem, yeah. Like it was, but it was one that didn't win. It was another guy. Sure was. I don't forgot his name. It was a brother. I kept seeing him on news. They gave him some time. Was it like care, like some, yeah. That's him. That's exactly what it is. So man, I mean, and then you being in the midst of being an attorney, let me get to a question. Like how do you feel like that we have somewhat of a voice as minorities in the Dallas area? More so than other places for sure. That's what I would think too. That's a good thing. You got to take what you can get in this thing, man. Right, right. So do you, how long will you, you defense attorney? Correct. Is that, how's that going for you? That was great. You like that better? Yeah, for sure. And it was about design. I knew once I got X amount of trials, I was gone. That was already what it was when I went in there or whatever. So, and then it, you know, I had that whole situation where when I first came in, just prayer, I don't talk to police or don't. And, you know, being a prosecutor, I was in my work room and they come in and like, Hey, what's going on? And like, I wouldn't say nothing. Just like not doing it on purpose. This is how I was wired at the time. And then one of my co-workers was like, Hey, man, let me talk to you. What's going on? Like, are you okay? I was like, Yeah, what's happening? I just noticed that, you know, it was on first come, you just know. And I was like, Do I read? Yeah, you're probably right. You're through a lot though, David. You can come on, man. You've been through some stuff, man. Yeah. You, I could see how I can't see how you made it this far dealing with this stuff. But I can at the same time, because it's a passion inside. Now to make people do the right thing. Just like my son-in-law, he, uh, police officer. I remember in New York, I was like, man, why would you want to be a, he's like, I want to be a part of the solution, man. You know, and he's doing it now. And we get, we, he and Colleen, but we get those, we get those conversations. You know what I'm saying? We get to talk about different things as a, he down there doing his thing. But here, um, it's yours anyway. Been here over 20 years already. But no, man. Just, um, man, it's a breath of fresh air for you to even come on this show. You're the first attorney that we've had on this show. We are going to Houston to interview another one. Oh, really? It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come to, in twos, you know? But I just, you know, I commend you, brother, for being able to stay in the game like this. How many years have you been officially practicing law? So low practitioner since, well, since oh nine officially, but as a defense attorney since 12. Is it okay to talk when the police stop you or when they taking you to jail? Yeah. You says, but they say you are, what do you say? You had a right to remain silent. Like don't tell him yourself. You understand what I'm saying? But standing your ground when you come to the law. That's right. That's could get dangerous though. What if you don't really know it though? It's, it's like, you know it. So it's cool for you to do it, David. But a person who like ignorant and jumping out and talking about, what do you suspect me of a crime? And all that deep niggas on the internet is funny to me. Yeah. Google some real people. What crime, what crime do you suspect me of? I got my phone. Bill, what? It'll come on my niggas. All right. And some day I'll be like, nigga, you wrong. I'm like, that's right. That's right. You got to pick and choose your battles, man. So everybody will try to do like you. I remember I seen it on Tyler Perry movie where they got stopped and he was playing an attorney. And he was in the truck and he was playing himself in three different ways like he always do. And it was like crazy, but it was so true. You know what I mean? How they was handling them. It's just nerve-wracking that our people get challenged like this by the law. Right. And it's happening still. I don't think it's went away. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That type of thing is, I feel as though it's ingrained in U.S. society, man. It is what it is. Like how long we've been having issues with the police? Man, for a long time, man. For a long, long time, man. So what happened with these? Let's get into the hip hoppers for a second because I don't want to hold you forever. No, no problem. I want to talk about the hip hoppers for a minute, man, because on the Instagram, some of it's props, some of them are real. And what is that? I mean, is this something they should be doing or should they stop and put the damn guns up and the money up and quit doing it? Crash test dummy. Really? Will they convict you for something you said in a rap? So I boosted and said they will. They'll use it as punishment evidence and use it to try to paint you out as something that you not necessarily are. I've seen it. That's when you've been found guilty in a trial phase. They bring it all that out. What? It's that YouTube stuff coming, Instagram. That's coming. I've had a case where it was all social media. All the evidence was Instagram, Facebook posts. Facts. Did you beat it or could you get around them blows? I didn't beat it. Because they had too much information, didn't they? Yeah, but look, every day, probably every defense attorney had told his client, listen, man, don't be on Instagram with guns and money. They love it. It's people who work for the police. They eight hour job is monitoring social media. They sit at a desk. Their job is to monitor Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat. That's what they do. Man, I'm telling you right now, man. That boy, they put that song on, man, and then, you know, somebody get something done to them, they'll make it that too. Facts. Because they don't have to say a name. They be like, that's who he was talking about right there. As long as they got you to say it, they can kind of tap into it. Yeah. And then the damn thing you can do about it. I had a case where a prosecutor, like, I went in there to talk to them about the case, right? My guy was got caught with some green, whatever. I go in there and he said, hey, man, yeah, I'll see where you're going. He's a rapper. So I'm like, huh? Who would he rap for? He does. What's this? You know, oh, yeah, let him pull it up. Pull it up. Man, my dude, yeah. And what he, he, he, he, he, he had it on there. He had the weed on there. He had all that on there. Going in. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, but you know how I'm going to throw him a curve ball? I can't go down like that. You know what I'm saying? We're talking about these Instagram, the one to get on these with the guns and with. Oh, that's so. No, no, but they, they got to go to trial. They got to go to court too. With the guns and the weed and all of that on social media you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what we're into. I can never understand why people do that because they know that that's all evidence that, you know, police and lawyers and whatever use against them. Like why is like, if you're not doing it, you're not popular. But then if a case ever builds up and they don't realize that just because somebody not snatching them right away as soon as they put it up, they're building cases, they're holding all of that information, taking it off and holding it in your file and be like, okay, yeah, just wait, just wait. Poo Shiesty, Poo Shiesty went through it. Poo Shiesty went through a crazy thing. You know what I mean? Where he was held for something that he's so-called done. So they just don't realize that, you know, they think it's just, it has to happen right now. And I've heard people say that, like, man, they brought up something that happened like five years ago and da, da, da, da. Like you'd have been building a case against you. Right. Duh. Well, see, is the hip hop police for real? Absolutely. Alive and well. Oh, they have police. That's called- Explain to me what that would be. But we, like, the community in the culture is the reason why. Because, okay, for instance, when the last time you ever heard guns and rows is shooting at Metallica? You don't hear it. You understand what I'm saying? Since when is Britney Spears put out a hit on a pink Christina Aguilera because they over some- Right. That's the stuff we bring. You understand? When you bring the BS, you're going to get BS back. They bring it to be different. I'm just telling you because they just like to be different from everybody else. And yes, it comes in a lot more controversy because I've heard a lot of people say, well, you know what? I just like to show out. That's just who I am. But I guess it comes with the culture. Our culture stands out. And this hip hop culture impacts everybody from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the barrel. You understand what I'm saying? What's going on right now? And that's why things are going to be monitored. Right? Because what ends up happening, you have young people influencing other young people, right? Whether good or bad. So this is what's happening right now. Listen to me. If you're dealing with that fentanyl, you, they're going to bury you. I'm just telling you. So when you up in there rapping, talking about this, this, this, and this, and if your tail get caught, you're done. People are dying. Suburbian America is dying. Because rappers tend to try to rap what they live. Not all of them be faking and shaking butts. A lot of them do. And because of that, they don't realize the lyrics can also be evidence as well. And if it's not, they're going to try to make it into evidence or whatever. Because of how they perceive it. But see, here's a flip side of that coin as far as when it comes to rappers. Now, I ain't talking about youngsters that's just on social media with guns and they ain't rap nothing, right? But I'll say, so the market, if the market demands or is responding to a certain image, right? When you're a youngster trying to get you some money in this rap stuff, right? And you're looking at the blueprint that's before you, right? And everybody else is just what they're doing. Whether you really want to do that or not, but if this is what's going to get you on and get you and your family out of a situation, you're going to do it too. You're going to take the risk. That's it. One more question. Because you're a defense attorney. Have you ever taken on anyone that eventually you're like, you're scared of for your life? No, and I probably, I should have been probably, but I'm too crazy. I don't want to be born that way. Because when I think about it, you know, we've been through a lot. I had that question in my mind, but when I had that question in my mind, after I thought about it, I started thinking about... What he been through? Not only that, wasn't there the attorney who got killed in Kauffman or the judge that was internal because of something they had going on? Another judge smoked him. Yeah, they was all in that together. That was all they thing. They try to make it our thing, but it didn't work. At first they did. I know I'm like, what? That ain't what somehow we'll do it. You know, that ain't... You kind of knew like that ain't some... That ain't something we'll do. You know what I'm saying? We have, but we ain't like that. We have, we have... Not that both. No, no, we come in a little different than that. Some of my most loyal clients is... Was Arion Brotherhood Cash. Really? Telly. Wow. And so I had went down because I... Like, so when I first started, I did court appointments, right? So you don't get to choose those. You get email, has a name, boom. So this dude name, which I can't say, but it was... I thought he was Black by his name, right? We can say that. So boom. I roll up in there. Hey, I'm here to see you. Something to say. Go out, go out and kiss him. You come around the corner. He's getting his head lightening bolts. Everything tattooed on this. Like something off a gangland. Real talk. So I'm like, okay. So you know, it is what it is. So he talking to the glass. So he come out. I say, man, listen, I'm going to cut to the chase. I'm going to be... I look clearly I'm Black. I'm going to be Black. If you got an issue with me representing you, we can go on and kill it now or whatever. So it is what it is. No, Mr. Hudson, it's cool. It's cool. I just look like that because I got to survive in prison. I've been in prison and it's segregated. Like I ain't... You got to click up with some. Yeah. So I'm like, okay. I'm like, you've shown. That's so true. Okay, go on my problems. Nah, we good, blah, blah, blah. Man, this dude end up being one of my best one class. Because then you do them right. They recommend you to somebody else and somebody else because they know a lot of people. I have my seven, eight, eight B's. Who need people? Right, who need people. So do you, do you... Okay, we're... Do you listen to hip hop music? Oh yeah, that's how I was raised on that. What's your top three artist of all time? I got to get it from him, man. I got to get it. Mr. Hudson got to give it to me. And top three lawyers of all time. Top three... Top three... We want to do lawyers or hip hop first. Hip hop first. Hip hop first. We'll do lawyers next. Hip hop first. Number one. Two pop. That's my nigga. He on the wall right there. He on the other side. Yes, sir. Number two. Scarface. Scar... That nigga bad, too. And number three. Number three. That's where it gets hard. Everybody say that. Everybody say that. That's where it gets hard, man. Number three. You got to give him a three. Nigga, if you don't say what I want you to say, I'm going to kick you out of my stone. You have to... I don't know what you want me to say. This is what I'm going to say, just because it can be a 10-way tie. I ain't... I'm not trying to say one name. That's one person. Don't try to play. Can be a group. No, yeah, it can be a group. Then I might have to round with you, GK. Hey, nigga, get the stand and just know what I do and what I do. And then you can kick him out of your stone. Yeah, yeah. So now we're going to go with attorneys. Hold on, but before you get into attorney, have you ever seen a case or heard a case like on the news, something happened, whatever, and it was so touching to you that you're like... You wanted to go and represent that person? I'm going to do this pro bono. You don't have to pay me, and I'm going to take this because I believe in you. Absolutely. A lot of times, actually. But you have to be careful because we got these ethical rules that we go by as attorneys. I just can't pull up to the jail and say, hey, you need a lawyer? No, he got it. So, but you can put it in there. You can put it in there. Hey, man, tell the old boy mama, hi, let me. That's the bull car. How are they doing? Yeah, that's so crazy. You can't just go up to them and go like... No, you can't. No, because that person's choice is saying, no, I don't want you or yeah, I want you or... Because if you're going to go out of your way to be like... Being from LA, you said, being that you've been in LA in law, when my boy Nipsey got killed, man, because I knew Nipsey. I met him, went to his family. She know I was my wife, no. This nigga that did it, an attorney popped up, that we ain't seen since the old J-trial. That tripped me out, bro. And then I got action in the interview. I'm like, what am I saying to this nigga? Like, why you doing it? That's crazy, man, how things be happening. You just don't know how that ended up happening. I wanted to say that because how does this happen? How do you end up even getting a call for something like this? It's just weird to me. Or he might have decided to be like, I'm going to do... I don't know. You think so? That nigga weird to do that. It's a high-profile trial, too. That's a high profile. It's out there, so they want to be seen again. Facts, but you got to be careful though, because regardless if you're getting paid a million dollars or zero, if you fumble the rock, it's the A. Is it is what it is? He got out of there quick, so it doesn't happen though. Yeah, check those blues out. But anyway, give me the top three attorneys of all time. Got to be number one, Johnny. Johnny Cochran, that is definitely number one. Number two. Mr. Jameil down in H-town. Mr. Jameil out of the area, that boy bad, too. Why, what's the thing that that person have ever done that? You just like, okay, that made him... Johnny Cochran? No. Oh, I'm sorry. We all know Johnny Cochran, but Jameil, I don't know that one. When you take on Titans, oil companies and stuff like that, as a solo practitioner, we ain't talking about somebody who came from a firm that got 50 attorneys to work with. Solo practitioner. He came in and went in, you know what I'm saying, and prevailed. So that's tough. Got you. Number three. You know what? That's tough, too. That third one, you know what I mean? Number three. I tell you what, I'm going to get some local love or whatever, and I may be biased because it's going to be a two-way tie. Three, it's a two-way tie. Y'all got to get me. No. No. Number one. I'm going to say Micah Todd. Okay. Micah Todd. Yeah. And why? Because I fool with him, number one, and he's telling me a lot, but he's sharp, he knows his stuff, and he know how to play the game. He a chess master. You got to be a chess master. Man, same man. We love you, David, man. This is dope, man. Thank you. Shout out to Mr. Lee. Shout out to Mr. Lee. We love you. You know you, my guy, man. Man, it's just dope to have you on the platform. I appreciate it, man. Mr. Hudson, go ahead. Most lawyers always, not all, but a lot of them move from being a lawyer to a judge. Do you have any aspirations of being a judge? No, I don't. They try to put that key in my bag one time and we go, hey, man, you think you want it? No. At the time, like, it ain't trying to be like, no, I'm good. Number one, I know too many people. Number one, down there. So, and number two, like, it's not, it wasn't enough lucid at the time. Let me just say this. Shout out to my boy, my boy Wes, hot boy Wes. Shout out to Waco Trun. That's my partner. Shout out to them boys, man. They've been on Boss Talk, man. We got another Waco affiliate in the building. Y'all need this nigga, y'all need to call it. I've heard you. Say, man, thank you for coming on Boss Talk 101. What a Bosses Talk, man. For sale. Hey, man, we love you and we're going to always call you if we got questions. Anytime. And we're going to have you come back in with big cases happen. We go, we got our guy now. For some. And we thank God for it, man. It's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101. What a Bosses Talk. There we have it.