 Welcome back! We took a very short break to you know punctuate at least the day with some small musical interludes but we are now back. My name is Valentine or at Colour Me Val on everything but of importance. At White Five for Facebook, Y254 channel on Twitter, Y254 underscore channel on the gram. That's how you interact with us today and any other day. Hashtag of the day is why in the morning now we just got done with a very interesting conversation with one Stephanie Yetta and if you missed it don't panic. You can go on our YouTube channel and do the thing. Now allow me to allow my guests to introduce themselves and we'll have a very intimate conversation about the future of businesses or entrepreneurship in a whole in the digital space. All right good morning. Good morning. Yeah you promised me a smile. Yeah, yeah there's a special smile. Okay. Allow me to begin with the lady. Hi what's your name? Hi I'm Christine McKenna. Okay. Yeah. And you are? I'm a media strategist and a media buyer. Yeah. What does a media strategist do? Basically you create digital marketing strategies for brands on social platforms. Yeah. And you are sir? My name is Kevin. Yes Kevin. Gashiri with Lava from Kampala doing business in Kenya. Okay. Yeah. All right. And you are? I help out at Onesha in charge of business strategy. Yes. In client relations. All right. Would you please tell us a little bit about Onesha? Onesha is a marketplace where we connect creatives with skills in the creative industry to businesses that require those skills. Yes. And what kind? Okay creatives we are talking about photographers. We're talking about illustrators. Yes. The creative space is wide and it is growing and usually companies normally if they want more than one solution they have to talk to Mary and Jane and Kimani. And then if they are unhappy with what Mary did now the business has to go back to the market and find for a replacement. So now we make it easier by businesses coming to Onesha and then Onesha sourcing the different creatives who would work on a project. And so the client deals with Onesha and then Onesha deals with the creatives. Okay. Yes. Before I get to you Christine, does it take away from the process because I've at one point in my life I had interned at a particular agency and I understand clients can be very demanding to say the least, the least, the absolute least. So that back and forth is it done with the creative or with Onesha? We have merged into a different solution profile because different clients also want different projects done. There are some clients who want somebody to do for me a logo and once the logo is done they run in the creative. So there are clients who would want that particular one time assistance. You also have clients who require a project. We're going to need some creative solutions for three months and then after three months the project goes down. So then how do they get this talent from the market and they get a very well refined talent but also at a reasonable price. So there are other players in the market and our service complements the existing players. Oh, that sounds fun. Now how do you come in as a strategist? No, I come in, so excuse me, I come in as a creative on the Onesha platform. So now when the clients approach Onesha, Onesha then comes to me as a digital strategist or a media buyer and asks me, we have a brief, we've been given a brief by a certain company, how do we execute this? Create for me a digital strategy for executing what the company needs and then from there now once the strategy is ready you present it to the client and then the client either approves or denies or maybe asks for any changes in the strategy. So you get a lot of the back and forth with the client. Is there a point where you've changed creatives on the same job? Yes, it happens. It happens because sometimes you get a client who doesn't know what they want. Which is often the case. Clients don't know what they want or maybe they know what they want but they didn't procure it in the right manner. And so the first creative who comes on board, once they do their first piece, when it's taken back to the client, let's say, I didn't ask for this. You're like, oh, you didn't give us a good brief. And some situations it's possible for the creative to be changed, which helps us to give satisfaction to the client exactly the solution that we promised to give them. That we're not doing your logo with Mary. You're doing your logo with whoever it is you'll need to get to give you the logo that you like. Yes. Are they allowed to ask for a specific creative or is that kind of? Mainly because of the history of our past clients. We have portfolios and so it's possible for them to choose from a portfolio and say, do you have somebody who's worked in the manufacturing industry? So now we have that capability to attach a creative who is relevant to the client. Yes. I remember this one did for me that other. Yes. Yes. We want this one. Yes. All right. So then we do the marching. Yes. All right, Christine, I want to take us back a little bit to 2020 when COVID did the thing and then a lot of the things that we had to do physically were now transferred to the digital space. How do you see us in the next two, three years? If since then we are where we are right now, people are probably even still working at home from home rather. So where do you see our spaces as entrepreneurs, as companies, as businesses? Okay. So since COVID hit, most businesses decided to do most of the work remotely. And then once COVID started slowly dying out, people will choose either hybrid type of model, working model, or just entirely remaining remotely. And you'd find that if businesses were remaining remotely, they had already created a good working model where all employees are able and disciplined to work remotely. And then there's also businesses which prefer the hybrid where at least you come into the office and then you're able to create that culture, team culture, while people are in the office. So I think moving forward in future, most roles which are riskally technical will be done remotely since, as you can see in the, in our Kenyan market at the moment, most young people are Gen Zed and Millennials. They prefer to find work in remote places in global platforms such as Fiverr, Apowak, remote.io, and all these platforms. So you find that most young people in Kenya will actually be employed by employers in different countries, US, in the UK, China, and then you're just working for those companies while seated at home. Then I think for employees, if you want to find work remotely, you then have to be a very disciplined person and committed to your work, to your work in a way that you don't have to be supervised by your manager every other day to be asked for any reports or anything that you need to send out to your employers. Kevin, how do you see this transition in generations? And I'm asking you because I also don't, I'm not as young as I look. So I'm in the halfway there. I want to be a hybrid. I want to be the one who I grew up being told, you know, go to school, work hard. After that, stomach, doggo, you know, physical presence and then things changed. And now we have such a whole new different version of what life was before. How is this hybrid leaving you feeling? Hybrid is interesting. Across WhatsApp groups, HRs are having so many meetings because HRs are now alive to the fact that some of the work we needed people to come and do at the office doesn't necessarily have to be done at the office. And so HR is going through a lot of transition. Someone is seeing him on TV. Business is calling. My apologies. So the fact that HR is disrupted, it means maybe because of the disruption of COVID, people discovered zoom. You're like, you don't need to come. If you want to talk to your boss, what does a boss need to tell you? So you're seeing technology interfacing with how people needed to meet just to dish out work. I want you to call 10 people. Okay, do you have to come to the office for you to tell me call 10 people? You could actually send me the list. You could tell me what it is you want me to tell them. And then you can connect me with the next step in the job industry. So we are seeing technology disrupting the workflow. And what that is doing, it's bringing people of different age groups to work on a project. So older people are working with younger people, younger people are also working with a bit more experienced people. So there's a lot of disruption happening in the marketplace. And that is very good for our industry. Yeah, yes, I like that constant evolution. Yes. Right. I also want to take you a little bit back to, by the way, they're famous. Don't look at him like that. He was once on a KCP's line and then I believe it was season four, episode seven, if I'm not, you know, off my rocker a little bit. However, that particular pitch, there was a question that intrigued me. Which one do you remember? The one that caught my eye was the difference between Onesha being a platform where creatives are given opportunities versus it like a hand-picked number of creatives are put on this platform versus just any kind of creative being able to access this particular platform. So they come over, but they're causing what one versus 10 people can access and get jobs equally. So how did that work out years later? We are the difference between Onesha and the platforms but that my colleague mentioned is that we have the advantage of local knowledge. You could go on to Fiverr and pitch for a job. The person who's going to do it just has a skill, but what if you want somebody who understands Nakuru? Because the product is being used in Nakuru. So you'd, hey, do you also know Nakuru? You can't do that with Fiverr. You can't do that with Upwork, but you can do that with Onesha. Why? Because Onesha can, when the job comes and you realize the client is in Nakuru, then you're able to share that piece of brief with our creatives in Nakuru because they're going to do it at a cheaper cost. They'll be able to do whatever it is with the local sensibilities that uniquely puts Onesha in that particular space. So our creatives are spread across Kenya and we are able to execute projects in different African capitals and that is what makes it a bit unique and different to the market segment that requires that solution. Yes. How far have you expanded since? We have, in the recent past two years, opened up to the overseas market. We have a lot of Kenyans who have been working either in the UK or in Dubai or in the US and they're thinking about doing businesses in Kenya. Guess what? They want somebody who is in Kenya to help them conceptualize it because of a process in the business called route to market. You've made your app. How do people get to know that your app exists and how does your app get the first 1000 users? So working with somebody with local sensibilities is extremely important, not only because of their ability to do so, but because of going to the market with that exact solution. So that is the sort of transition we have seen over the past two years. Are you proud of yourself? We have only started. We have only started. And Africa's time is now. It really is. Yes. Yes. Yes. And like how confident and glowy it is about this particular conversation. Let me ask you, Christine, and there's always a fear that technology will wean out the need for actual presence of people. Do you think small kids can do this? Probably you, what you can do right now, five people were doing before. Is that a danger of that? Yes, totally. As we've been seeing the recent news about chat GPT, which is yeah. So just using a chat GPT, you're able to weed out a lot of job roles if you're basically good at using it. So for example, in our digital space, when you look at the king and market, you find that most employers actually want someone with an old rounded experience, someone who is able to do different things for them, rather than the global platforms or maybe employers in the global space where they just basically are looking at specialists. So in Kenya, you find that you an employer wants someone who can do content, you can do graphic design, you can do photography, you can do such engine optimization, can you do website analytics, all of those things, then you become more qualified for a role. So I think moving forward, you need to be a specialist in a specific area, in a digital area to make you more good or more employable to any employer or just basically if you want to start running your business, your own business, you have to be at least good in one particular thing. All right, versus this being a jack of all trades? Yes, yes. Guys, have you heard this important, important specify? You can know things, but be specific in your knowledge. Thank you kindly very much. Again, at Y-5-4 on Facebook, Y-2-5-4 channel on Twitter, Y-2-5-4 underscore channel on the gram. Why creatives? Why did you choose an industry that has this particular kind of resources? Why creatives? You would remember at a certain point, secretaries were essential in every office. Oh my goodness, yes. Such a big office. Yeah, you're doing secretarial, I'm doing shorthand because at that time, businesses needed to write letters. After secretaries got work, now there was another craze for accounting because now the secretaries can get the work done, they can shuffle paper between the boss, now clients come, work is coming in, now you need an accountant. And in every home in Kenya, there has to be an accountant because so many people have done CPA, CPA, CPA, CPA, CPA. Now that the accountant can put the money together, as the business grows, you need to reach out to more clients. When you reach that stage, you realize who's going to do our communication, who's going to do our signage, who's going to do our newsletter. So the next person that you want is a creative. So you realize businesses that reach out for a creative are in the infancy of their growth. And so by providing creative services, Onesha is able to align with businesses that are on the growth trajectory. So guess what happens when they grow? You grow with them because they're going to need more of your service in the same way they needed it in the infancy. You're not going to stop needing to have a graphic designer or a content strategist or a media planner. So as different businesses grow, their need and appreciation for creativity depends. And some stay with us long, some find another way of saying, Hey, we're spending too much time on paying out creatives. Some decide to have an in house. But even those that have an in house, you may not have an editor in house. So then you say, Okay, we'll have an in house creative, but can we outsource the editing? So because of social media, there is a big market for video editors. Yes, because we've got everybody with a mobile phone shooting content. And some of it is actually very good. It just needs a bit more editing. So there's a new wave of demand for video editors that is also in its infancy. Yes, you've got your video done. Now you want copy. So copywriters, they are now a big demand for copywriters. Yes, sometimes I don't want a human person. I want somebody who can draw. So then there's a market for illustrators. So aligning in the creative industry is extremely very useful because it shows companies that require creative services are on the growth plan. Yes. Very articulate for Chelsea. Thank you. I threw shade very fast. And we're going to move on hashtags with everybody. What would you say, Christian, is your biggest challenge as a strategist? I think the biggest challenge just as Kevin mentioned earlier, he said that most clients will come to you with an idea of what they want, and then you end up creating a whole strategy of that idea. Once that strategy is presented to them, then they will say, basically, this is not what I was trying to get into. So most clients don't really have a clear direction on what they really want. And if they give you a direction of what they want, then it might not be a direction of where the business is leading to. It might not be a direction of a type of goal that the business might need to achieve. Or else you find that sometimes a client gives you some business goals, and then they expect social media or digital strategies to be more like a miracle worker for them. So you expect miracles within one month or two months, which I think in the digital space, it takes some time for you to just do a lot of branding and to grow yourself out here. I want to chip in. Clients need to understand growth happens in a curve. And what she has mentioned, a client's business is in its infancy, but they want results of a mature client. So if you're selling paint, you've only started selling paint today, but then you're comparing yourself with a client who has been selling paint for 20 years. They have hundreds and thousands of customers. There are so many other things they have done. And then, like she's saying, they think if you post on Facebook for one month, you should get the orders that this other client got for 15 years. Like Steven, that one was posting, why are we not getting results? You're like, Tangulini, we'll scare you up. So now it becomes a headache for strategists because she is constrained. You're like, could you then give me the resources that would give us the time to nurture the audiences, help the audiences create trust? Because I saw you on Facebook. It doesn't mean I like you. I just saw you. I saw you on Facebook. It doesn't mean I trust you. So I'm not going to buy. So clients sometimes misunderstand. Business takes time. Yes, it's like you took a kid to nursery school. They learnt the alphabet and you want them to write a composition. They can't. 500 words. They can't. So all these businesses that are starting to use social media, social media in Kenya is in its infancy. We are babies. We are children. We are playing around with a keyboard. We even don't know how to articulate our business objectives. We're just seeking attention. Oh, so and so did it. Oh, so let me also do it. But what is your purpose? And is your communication as a company aligned with your objective, targeted to your customers? Many people are getting it wrong and strategists are having a very, very hard time. You must be so diplomatic. I don't know if you're on the same page, but I see nowadays we have brand names sort of a long time ago and not that long ago. If you wanted to advertise, you'd go on mainstream media. You'd go to radio stations. You'd go to TV stations. But now I'm seeing there's a new way to approach an influencer. I see you have this number of people on social media. Do something. If you're a comedian, be funny, but be funny with my brand. Is that a strategist behind that saying let's not go to TV, let's do this instead? Yes, actually influencer marketing is part of digital marketing. It's an area on itself. So businesses when branching out, so you're looking at either do you need a micro influencer? Do you need an nano influencer who has more lower followers and a micro has higher followers? So some businesses will prefer to mix both. Others will prefer to just go with the nanos only. And others will just if you have the resources, you go with the micro only. So both micro and nano have different advantages. So you'd find that some micro influencers will be taking a lot of brands. So they might have a lot of branding messages from maybe different industries going out. So their followers might be finding it hard to just follow up on what's which brand to really be at. But then they also have an advantage of their message gets to reach a lot of audiences, potential audiences. And then they now know now they create a lot of engagement since they are now focused on the small areas. So now you're able to directly or get a personal touch with some of their followers. Because I'd always wondered like, yes, I can see there's this one with all the numbers and you know, but there's also this person and they're not as prominent on social media if I may, but you have both of them having some kind of product that they're advertising for lack of that term. Now that sounds like a woke person, a strategist. What happens if there's a brand or a company that is just not willing to start? Why do we need branding? Why can't we just keep it like it was before? Why do we have to do social media? Why do I spend more resources? Then it will just not be known. I mean the world has changed right now. You can't just lay back and say you're not going to be out on social media or do any type of branding. You just remain stagnant. So you need to do a lot of branding to just differentiate yourself from other brands in the market. When you brand yourself, you're able to reach a target, a targeted potential customers for your own services or type of products and then now you're able to create that competition instead of just being there without doing any type of branding. Unless you're a monopoly, that's the only reason you can be comfortable. I wish to say companies need to understand marketing is very broad. What becomes easy for people to do on social media is because people spend time on social media, but they also spend time elsewhere. So you will probably be on social media for two hours, but where will you be the rest of the time? So brands therefore need to allocate budgets to serve 360 degrees relative to how much they can afford it. So if you look at established brands, dude, they are on social media, but they're also on the billboard. Every time we go to Kisumu, wall branding, forget Kisumu, from the airport, Jogorod, people are doing wall branding. Why? Because wall branding is also a place where it's called out of home advertising. And so it is not fair for you to spend all your money on social media, ignore flyers, ignore interactive experiences. There are some companies that do experiential marketing. So if I sell in chocolate, I can see on social media, but if I tested the chocolate, I would be sold out. Guys who are selling whiskey, I want to see whiskey on social media or do you want to taste whiskey? So if I'm selling whiskey, which place in Kenya has a hot following for whiskey, you therefore go to social media to experiment. Are they in Nakuru? Are they in Vihiga? Or are they in Kampala? So social media will help you with that insight. So if social media tells you whiskey lovers are in more than one place, then you plan experiential marketing in multiple places. So you use social media as a tool. Yes. That sounds like what I was just about to ask. I don't know if it really does translate, but okay, as I'm very just out there example, Key and Owesty, there's some advice you will see. Westlands. Yeah. Westlands, you may change. I will see Niasinski on the board. All right. About Johnny Walker. Yes. But to Key and Owesty, to Key and Owesty, I think there are some things I will see for fresh, and I have not seen Owesty. How do you pick and choose it? Do you do research now? Sometimes it depends with availability. So the people who've been in the billboard business, they are hotspots. They are hotspots that are booked by blue chip companies for one year. So therefore, by the time you have your budget for three months, there are some spots that are not available because they're taken up by a blue chip company. So the ones who take it for three months or less, they take the ones that are available. Another thing, billboards are also sold out by different billboard companies. So the one that you have is the one that your client has access to. Yes. So your client may not have access to the property across the road. So when you go to them and you say, I want a billboard, they'll only give you the ones they have access to. Yes. Oh, aren't we learning something today? Yes. Hashtag is why in the morning. Okay, and maybe as we draw this into a conclusion, Christine, maybe I'll start with you. How would you explain to the layperson why marketing is so important? Why branding? Okay. Definitely I'll be small first. So if I'm trying to start something, why is marketing myself so important? Okay, marketing yourself is important because you need to be seen by a lot of people before you convert any people into your customers. So for example, there's a marketing book that actually says back in the 90s, you needed to have about seven touch points before someone becomes your customer. And those seven touch points could mean then it was TV, radio, be on newspaper, be on a flyer or just be on a stage somewhere branding maybe wall, like he said. But right now, we need at least 21 plus touch points before I become your customer. So if I have seen you on Facebook, it doesn't mean when I see you next week again on Facebook, I'll become your customer. But if I go to Instagram or I go to Twitter or I go to YouTube, while I'm watching my own videos and I see you, or I go just to do a search online, and then I see your website, then I'm able now to create, you see, creating that customer journey just from, we shall say there are actually three phases. One phase is to create the awareness and then the second phase I'm creating consideration. And then the third phase now it's for converting. So most most businesses should actually focus majorly on creating a lot of awareness, so that now when you go up or bottom the funnel, then you're able to have an easier time when at the conversion phase. Yeah, so basically become maybe allocated a lot of resources in awareness and then create a lot of touch points across all channels, both online and offline, like you said, billboards, radio, TV, and then now once all these customers are able to see you, then maybe at a point like six months or three months, they're able to convert and become your customer, potential customer. I'm super hooked on that word convert, because I probably was using Kevin's brand, but now you've come along with your brand, same product, but you want me to stop using Kevin's, but you want me to, there we go, there we go. Kevin, do you think we should have forums to sensitize clients, like your please handle your expectations, manage, manage, manage, we're doing our best? Do you think we should? Is it possible? It's an exciting time to be alive. And it's an exciting time to have the tools we have at our disposals. And as young people, we have a significant challenge. We think the only boundary that matters is Kenya. We need to wake up and find out Malawi is a market, Zimbabwe is a market, Kampala is waiting for you, Benin. When was the last time you had a conversation with somebody from Mauritius? And why are you not? Why are you listening to only one radio station? You can listen to radio stations from Singapore and get business news that will change your perspective about what you're doing in Nairobi. It's possible for you to be done home and serving a market in Canada. It's an exciting time to be alive. And as young people, we must work together. Yes, I need you because if I want to access the Canadian market, you have a cousin in Toronto. So you will be helping me understand how I can do whatever it is I'm doing from the Canadian part. So we need each other. And the people who are out of Africa, they're also coming into Africa. So we need to brand ourselves as Africans. Yes, because Africa is the largest market and will continue to be a very big market for anything that you're offering. So don't be blinded by your nationality. Your nationality is good when you're voting. We're done. That is not the answer as I expected, but it is definitely the answer I needed. Thank you so very much, Christine and Kevin, for coming. We have to wrap that up for right now. The show is not over. We'll be having Brian Sacco 101 coming in up next. Please do not forget to interact with us on our social media handles. Hashtag remember is why in the morning.