 Thank you, Acharya ji. Now we shall begin with our first panel. The first panel discussion will be on digital transformation of news, a strategic imperative. Let me now invite and introduce our esteemed session chair, Ms. Ritu Kapoor. Ms. Ritu Kapoor is the co-founder and the CEO of the QUINT and a board member at Oxford University's prestigious Reuters Institute of Journalism. She is also a board member of the World Editorial Forum at the World Association of Newspapers and Newspublishers. At the QUINT, Ms. Kapoor is focused on scaling the innovative digital media venture, offering a combination of high-value digital journalism and storytelling. Hey, and thanks for having me here. After 20 plus years in broadcasts, the last three years in digital founding and running a digital-born operation has been very exciting and I think compared to a lot of our panelists today, we're still work in progress. So I'm going to jump into inviting them up already so that we can get into the discussion which which we saw the beginnings of in the lounge there. So I'd like to invite up Mr. Varun Kohli, the CEO of the ITV network, Mr. Rajiv Singh, CEO of Zmedia, Durga Raghunath, CEO Indian Express Digital Media Services, Suparna Singh, CEO, NDTV Group and Salil Kumar, the CEO of India Today Group Digital. To start off, we need all of you to do a quick introduction of yourselves. I'm Durga Raghunath. Like Ritu said, I lead the digital services for Indian Express which includes IndianExpress.com, Financial Express, Jhansatta, Lokshatta, Tamar Malayalam in Youth, which is a youth portal and a couple of other sub-brands. Hi, I'm Suparna. I've been with NDTV for over 20 years. Since 2009, I headed NDTV Convergence, which is our digital arm and in December I took over as the CEO of the entire group. Numbers that we've just released recently, about two days ago, is that NDTV.com is now the world's 20th largest news site. So those are big numbers. Thanks. Hi, my name is Salil and I look after the digital business for India Today Group, which includes India Today.com and Ajatak.in. And a couple of digital first initiatives including some of the mobile firsts, which is MobileTak and then the Lullantop and the iChalk and the Delio, which is an opinion site. Hi, my name is Varun Kohli. I look after the ITV network. We are spreading into now digital in a big way, apart from the broadcasting business. So nice to be here and learn a lot from all the panellists. Hi everybody, my name is Rajeev. I had the Z-media Corporation Limited, which basically is a mix of both linear, almost 14 channels and close to about 10 odd digital properties. Some of the ones that have been making a lot of noise in the marketplace. ZNews.com, India.com, HealthSite.com, BollywoodLife.com. And of course, as an institution, we are on the threshold of also launching one of our OTT platforms, which will shortly be announced. It's a pleasure to be here, to be part of E&BA Awards and be part of this illustrious panel discussion. Hopefully, we'll contribute some few new information to you. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. So, one of the things we want to get to understand a little better today is how have newsrooms evolved, changed culturally, or in terms of workflow, or even in terms of looking at how revenues are coming in. As, and I think other than me, I think all of us here are large legacy media people who have now moved very aggressively into digital. I'd ask you first, Sir Paranasan, since NDTV was really the first aggressive move away before any of us were even saying digital, have you seen the newsroom, even the digital newsroom at NDTV evolve? And how has the integration between broadcast and the digital newsrooms been? Yeah, so about four years ago, we decided, and we declared it publicly, which was considered quite risky at the time for a broadcast group, that we would put digital at the center of our operations. So the mandate then within the group was web-first, which means that whenever there's any news coming in, the priority is to break it online, and then on airfollows. We did this because we were aware of how people were accessing us much more through phones, through the day especially. And as far as the newsroom goes, we do have an integrated newsroom, so there's a lot of synergy, but we're very clear that our online audience is very different from our broadcast audience. And I think that's been a really key part of our strategy, that NDTV.com is not NDTV247.com. So actually the kind of headlines that we use, the priority of stories, the content, the way it's written is often quite different from what our television channels will play up, but always within the same branding of, you know, NDTV cares about news, real news. Salil, what about India today? Have you been careful to keep this distinction, or is it the news flow, and it's just got various avatars and various platforms? Well, we also do keep the same distinction, and the fact is that there is a paradigm shift within the newsroom in terms of how editors are really thinking today. So for example, if there is a news coming in, the editor is thinking multi-fold, and he's not only thinking multi-fold from, say, a web or a TV perspective, he's also looking at it from a mobile and even text to video. So the fact is, how are you going to look at it? What is going to go in text, and how is it going to go on video? For example, the TV clip and the clip that'll be on the web and the clip that'll go on the mobile could be different in some of the instances. So that's the kind of thinking and process that goes in when we're looking at a news that's coming in. And I mean, for us, digital first or TV first, we want to make sure it moves out really quick, and it's breaking at both at the same time. I mean, there's nobody holding back news at any place. I can tell you that after being into video creation for 20 years, plus in broadcasts, I had to completely unlearn how to create video and completely find a completely new idiom for video for digital, for instance. But from print to digital, how does a text, how does a print bit move? How different is it? So I think there have been, I think, two sort of roots to this whole digitization with newsrooms, right? One has been the more, I mean, with Indian Express, and perhaps similarly Times of India as well, when there's a lot of reporting coming out of a newsroom and you have multiple editions, I think that is a operation in itself, right? So digital sort of got built around this operation rather than integrated into it. I think the change that I'm seeing now is that one, this whole approach to enterprise journalism, right? Where you say, okay, this is the story we are investigating for the next six months, how can we start thinking digital from the get go? So I think editorial meetings have changed and editorial thinking has changed. I think also this whole notion of, you know, if I had, I currently produced 22 pages, if I had 200 pages, what would I do? Right? Is the way I kind of also pitch it to the larger newsroom saying, if you had so much more, what more would you do for your beats, right? So that in itself has increased the number of original amount of original content coming out of the newsroom. And the third is, I think there are certain parts of a newsroom that have always traditionally lent themselves more to digital than others. One, for instance, is sports, right? Because sports technologically has been so advanced and so data driven, it's served much better by digital. Number two, photography is something that I'm hugely excited about, right? Indian Express is one of the few newsrooms that still has a really large network of photographers all over India who are doing fantastic work and they probably have four color pages in the newspaper, right? So potentially I have a newsroom of 70 people who are out there doing photography and video and who are so good at video journalism on their phone that I can potentially open two, three more sub-products out of that, right? So I think we're also re-examining what can emerge from news gathering, what can emerge from planning, as well as also saying, you know, this DNA of storytelling, like fundamentally if Indian Express is about storytelling, how is it we can create channel agnostic avatars of that, right? So I think we are moving up as much as we are moving broader in the way that we are thinking about it. What about, I mean, multimedia is critical to digital storytelling. So just in addition to that, do you find it easy for a senior journalist, the quality of whose journalism will be far deeper and superior to say, to a young journalist who's, you know, cutting his teeth or two years into the business, but the importance of finding ways of making, consuming that same strong journalistic piece more accessible to a younger TG, because we know that it's a younger TG on mobile phones. Is that easy? Getting the senior journalist. So I don't think I'm asking journalists to make that choice as much as saying that I think, I think speak, for me, digital means communication and speaking to your audience. I think it's less about saying you have to tell the story in every possible format. So what we are doing with the newsroom is we're trying to say listen, you have audio, you have video, you have images, you have an emailer, you choose your poison, right? Whatever you're comfortable with, please go ahead and communicate to your audience, build your following. Just if you're writing about education, make them, make them just get into your head and understand a little bit more, right? I think we're trying to expand knowledge for the reader and sort of acknowledge because of vernacular as well that we have to serve the information needs of a reader or user as much as we have to serve the news needs because news consumption is an evolved behavior in itself, right? You care about your country only when your needs are taken care of. So I think that's why we're trying to build bridges and giving tools to the newsroom saying you have to do something, right? You can't just write that one copy but you can, you know, at least the expertise in the express newsroom is such that if some of them just wrote a mailer a day to their readership saying, hey, this is what I read during the week, I think there'll be enough people willing to subscribe and know what they read during that week. So it's as simple really as that. Rajeev, in this fairly SEO driven universe of digital news media, where would you, you know, credibility, enterprise, we know is of high significance. I can tell you about that at the quint that it's enterprise original content that gets the highest leadership, you know, telling the story that nobody else is telling. But we are all still dependent on this SEO. So in that context, the speed news versus enterprise content to build credibility, et cetera around your brand, you know, what's your take on that? So if we were to really look at it from a perspective of the universe, the top 10 publishers sitting across in India, purely in terms of reach, each contributing almost about 55 million odd uniques. So you're looking in terms of 500 million unique users. When you are largely driving original curated content, which is more personalized, you are looking in terms of organic search, organic growth. But in the market where we are operating as Anurag just mentioned, it is all about your Pali, where search is largely being driven by the two big daddies, right? Search optimization and search marketing largely defines a very, very big role in terms of creating engagement with your prospective users. But it's a cash 22 situation, you know, from an enterprise value. Today, when you increase traffic proportionately or organically, are you able to then subsequently leverage it and monetize it as well? We all know it that 60 to 70% of it gets dominated by the two big players. So there is a very big question that you might be able to optimize and show your personalized content and rank it up on the Google search. And then therefore you get your relevant audience. But in order to do that, you also need to understand that you need to invest in building own original curated content where it is more personalization, speedy news or speed news or breaking news, as we know all in linear format, is no more necessarily a rational or a prerogative of a broadcast player. Because anything and everything that is happening today is happening on second screens, on your mobile devices. And we all know that mobile today, 80% of the content consumption is now happening on devices. Unfortunately, that's not true for any other medium. But having said so, I think the onus lies on journalists today to adapt to the new form of digital content delivery platforms. And enterprises need to also start investing in it. We in Zmedia have largely been always an organization that has experimented with many firsts. And one of the things that we have also done in the past couple of years to have built one of integrated multimedia newsrooms which comprises of close to almost about 600 people in that particular newsroom. So our entire forefront or foreplay is all about ensuring that you build relevant content, speedy news delivery through investing in technology, training people to largely ensure that they remain contextual and relevant to the current market demands. See enterprise journalism will be the need of but not immediately. It will take some time. Right now, of course, everybody is into the business of SEOs. How long we say, how might we say everybody wants new viewers to come in. Coming from an organization which is largely broadcast and now getting into digital in a big way, we already have around 300 reporters in various forms across. So there is a content which is there, which has not been consumed in different mediums. We have tried doing it and from a remote location in an MP or not, whatever news is coming in is getting us far more traction than the normal news which every other person says. So how different you are, how well you present yourself, how well your viewer understands you and how you are able to build a loyal viewer base will be the need of the hour right now. How the industry moves four years down the line, five years down the line, everybody is experimenting with something or the other because I have been talking to a lot of the digital guys since the time we have invested a lot of our stakes on digital. Majority of the people still don't know from where traffic comes. While we might stick here and say that traffic comes from here, there is a news which at times people say will not give you traction on a television, gives us a far more traction on a digital platform and vice versa. So we are in a situation where both the mediums are complimenting each other and that is a big learning that we have had the last eight, nine months that we have invested into digital. Well I think you're obviously, it's like when you're looking at technology, it's technology enablement, you're looking at data. What's more critical for each publisher is to look at how can he actually build on a good data that helps him stay connected and if he is actually engaging with the customer directly then the opportunities to monetize the visit or the number of your audience is much easier and better. While I think today when you look at it, it's an evil which is there and we all have to live with it, you're not going to wish it away and you can make the most of it by using whatever is coming your way from the platforms but at the same time I think use this time, this particular period to have your own database and stay connected with the audience and build on that data so that you keep going back to them again and again and you can sell to them directly. No, don't want to wish them away, don't think we need to. You know I think apart from all the paraphernalia where it really comes down to at least we believe is your brand and your content, if you build good content they will come from wherever and I think that sometimes because this digital inflection point in India that everybody has been talking about for years has finally been breached we're looking at the numbers now both in terms of traffic and backstage when we were talking at least three players said that they are profitable in digital which I really didn't expect so that's humongous. So in that scramble now to get eyeballs and users because finally there's some revenue coming in with digital I think brands are in danger of an identity crisis so this talk about you know what we do for SEO etc if your brand stands for real news hard news but online to get eyeballs or SEO you're going to do like a hundred stories on what Saif Ali Khan has named his son are you not demonstrating an identity crisis and does an audience then not get confused about what you stand for so what we've tried to do is just focus on what is our brand strength build good content around that we believe in premium news so as an example we have a strong presence in gadgets you know our gadget guru show is very popular and we thought how can we leverage that online so we started a really what we wanted to build is a really good quality site on gadgets and it's now the seventh largest in the world by far the largest in India so I think as a brand you have to know what you stand for and then plate your strengths and be confident that your audience will come to you for that so coming back to Facebook Google etc sure very important we work with them but what is the stickiness that you drive that makes people launch your app more than any other in the day and just finally on that point you know it's hard to often say that one agrees with Rupert Murdoch but I read recently that he said um you know Google and Facebook should pay genuine news publishers a carriage fee and I loved that really couldn't couldn't support that yeah so I think adding to what Suparna is saying right I think one clearly knowing what is the kind of content you want to invest in and I think second is it's a myth that somehow the if Google and Facebook were not there we'd get all the money the truth is we likely won't because we were huge slackers to do with technology recommendations we invested nothing in our tech stacks these two have managed so a they are very different so it's stupid to combine them together Facebook is a closed sort of environment where users spend time and consume publisher content within them Google on the other hand is driving content traffic to publishers publishers are choosing to use do DFP or not to monetize so it's a clear choice that publishers have made so I think Facebook is a completely different kettle of fish and if you've chosen to invest and build brands within Facebook I mean that's a call that you took right so that's that's different Google on the other hand I think has made discovery of the internet easier so we just have to accept that whether serving ads or discovering the internet Google is really the runway in terms of technology and they've they've built browsers as well right so I think for me Google is a root and an ad technology if if we are I think one way able to agree as publishers and deal with agencies in the middle in a more effective way we will probably be able to command higher cpms and not be allowing Google to completely commoditize our inventory I think that is one way we can work together to kind of drive up the value that we get but other than that to try and demonize these two as if we would have gotten all that money I think it's complete crap we agree to an extent with Durga primarily when you're looking in terms of the digital enterprises we've gone the conventional way that's what the legacy organizations who are in the forefront of news business they have seen news on the digital side purely as a conventional delivery platform to go ahead and engage with the users or viewers through an alternative route but what has been not happening and which is where we are all lagging behind is to look into the data science of it invest in data invest in technology understand what you could largely do with what the others aren't doing I mean purely from an analytics perspective today it's not about just the Google or the Facebook investing in technology I think it is the call of the day to understand the audience science audience targeted understand that this business is not just about content and building content delivery platform as well as thinking about it to develop technology assets so I think that is one area where perhaps each one of us would have to invest to get higher premiums because then you can aggregate your audiences more efficiently and present it as a as an option for the advertisers to consider unfortunately this is not happening the second part is that when you are looking at the content curators the journalists the people that we have invested in and who have the onerous task of building original content to what a superner just mentioned there are tools today that are available which can actually help you analyze what is trending what is not trending which headlines would work what text will work and what text will not work so therefore when you actually profile your audience or engage with your viewers you know in advance what is the content stickiness that viewer necessarily needs and what kind of content text headline that would work so automatically that dependency from search goes and your your organic content delivery grows so I think going forward we will have to coexist in the business and the second part that we need to see from a monetization perspective what you need to identify is a unique differentiator what is it that you have that others don't have I mean original content fine but you have to invest in original video platforms content seeding is something that you build yourself original content so there are many more opportunities coming our way and I think it is where that the publishers need to stand up and see as to what alternative revenue streams can be extended to their platform if that were to happen then anybody and everybody would coexist I agree we can't demonize them we need to coexist and market here specifically publishers in evolved markets like Australia and US and Canada have already done so there is no reason as to why this would not happen in India as well so I think for me the the the paywall relationship is is really something about the brand right it's not about money number one because I think oftentimes subscription revenue is compared to advertising revenue which is apples and oranges and completely wrong subscription revenue needs to be compared to circulation revenue which was never large enough to to support any kind of media business right we all know that largely we needed advertising to build our businesses so if the New York Times has three million people subscribing they have 300 million people reading them it's typically one percent of your audience that subscribes to your content it is typically three percent of your revenue that comes from there right so just to get a sense of scale and I think the talk is way louder than any of the numbers that come out from a revenue perspective second for me when I think about the Indian Express as a concept and who are the people who'd like to have a relationship with the Indian Express with print or subscription or events I think it is definitely how what is the relationship I can have with my core audience that will define my subscription strategy going forward or paywall strategy it will not be about getting everybody who consumes the internet to pay I don't think NTTV is looking at paywalls or any kind of freemium or subscription model for a very long time I don't think that's who we are and I think that's largely because it's a bit of a myth to say that a digital setup needs a lot of money we always had a separate PNL for digital despite being a large media legacy organization and our headcount now is less than 300 people you know and for the kind of traffic that we drive that's a very small operation a very tight operation the advantage in digital is that technology allows you to do things much faster much cheaper much leaner than what broadcast does so actually your investment costs are not or should not be that high the second thing is and thankfully I think that this is this talk is fizzled out a little bit about this long tail you know and how you have to keep throwing content out there in the hope that something will stick and therefore you know these endless efforts put into tabooing PTI tabooing INS actually people come to you for how you write a story for what your original content is and if you look we try to compare with an NDTV to you know the top 40 your pop music thing there may be 40 songs but everybody wants to listen to the top 10 so what are your breakout standout stories in a day do you have 10 that everybody will come back to you for and can you do a really good job on writing those and if you do those then everything else just kind of grows around that so again you know we talked about video an original video creating short form video now which drives a lot of stickiness is very cheap so again for us right now a paywall or a subscription model really just doesn't make sense we also we are not really looking at a paywall structure as of now and I think the industry even the consumers they're not really ready right now so if you want to be before time and try it anybody can but what kind of volumes and revenues so you when you think of something of adding any kind of monetization or a revenue stream to a product I think what's important is you to realize is the industry willing and is it ready right now looking at that scenario I don't think so we want to do it but having said that I mean there are some people where you have certain kind of categories certain content white papers if somebody is doing it and it's really high-end good useful content there will be people who will be buying it I mean there are reports that are bought even today and there is some revenue so it depends on the category for us no currently I'm not looking at it we sell the digital magazine by the way the magazine India today magazine is sold and there is substantial amount of revenue against which against that product so there is an opportunity but scale and size is smaller I just wanted to add to what all of saying and I'll just digress it from just being a pure digital to the legacy brands which are there the legacy brands in all that we have seen across different categories and genres right which is not merely digital if the viewer has liked it if it has built a credibility irrespective the numbers are here or there they have always gained traction on the right they are two brands which have a legacy around them irrespective their numbers have shown or not they've still made a lot of money so while we will debate google while we'll debate content but ultimately if the viewer sees you as his mouthpiece or as something that he wants to come to you you will make money irrespective you want to have a subscription revenue or a non-subscription revenue yeah per se when it necessarily where to say whether it is an independent independent voice or is it a mouthpiece most importantly and significantly in the current consumption economy you need to be non-biased otherwise your audiences are going to ditch you significantly saying so coming in from a media house I can safely say that largely in our today's scenario most of our business entities operate with a absolute free expression of interest in terms of what they want to talk about when it comes to the digital piece well whether you like it or whether you don't like it the content is available across everywhere in any specific form and it is not controlled it is being controlled by social media right so to a great extent when it comes to digital entities they are freewheeling they have an opinion of their own and that is what makes them critically different from any any other platform so I think media largely is non-biased specifically when it comes to the digital piece and that is how it would stay and I don't think it is being controlled anywhere and can't be controlled here in India as well obviously there is some some kind of pressure significant pressure that the media is being asked to operate under how much you choose to push back is really what your brand stands for you know you have to speak truth to power if you believe in news and in journalism and I think in some ways right now what some kinds of mainstream media or television channels have become actually makes life much easier for people like NDTV because the disparity is so large in terms of biased and neutral that we don't have to push ourselves that much harder to to make it clear that look we speak truth it's nice to see a lot of solidarity in the media over this and it's nice to see a lot of discussion and dialogue around it wherever I go that this is something that the media and people are concerned about and that you know we do plan to stand up for it and yeah I just think that you know your your brand speaks for who you are so doesn't that kind of give it away you don't have to try too hard see each media house stands for its own vision its own understanding right coming into pressure or not I have not seen it too much but there is a room for everybody while I'll say I am unbiased or you'll say you are unbiased everybody has their own viewpoints I think a guy would be too biased or any publisher will not be in business for long it might be in a short run they might earn a lot but in a long run they'll not be there you know the fact is if you're if you're stating facts somebody will turn around and say listen you're being biased but the fact is that at least from our group perspective we make sure that it's always being straight and to the point and factual and you maintain your standard of gold standards of journalism right through that's what we expect from all our journalists and we want them to do that can I just add what see today if you become biased the social media itself tells you in 10 seconds flat whether no no no I'm saying within the no no no no no no no no social media it might be biased but I'm saying there are neutral people who are watching you who of course give you a feedback and that feedback is well appreciated by each and every organization okay so let me answer this in two ways right one I think the three sort of digital newsrooms that I've managed mint first post and now Indian Express I think never have I been asked by any of my bosses or promoters to to you know take something down not do something I think we've pushed the edges in all three newsrooms in different ways so that's number one number two I think unequivocally we are we're living in in a very odd time right where anything that's thought anything that is critical analytical which which kind of goes beyond just a sort of this the India story is being thought of as unpatriotic right and that's that's I think a very very hard sort of society to live in and do journalism in and I think we're all operating within that and trying to still do our jobs I think most journalists still do their jobs and I think most people tell still tell great stories I think I'll leave it at that yeah thank you so much thank you we're open to taking questions now any questions from the audience can you pass on the mic please yeah I love the Rajiv Vasudev Kutammakam is a is a positioning point right would you call it a bias or would you not my name is Bohedar and I worked long years turning the Times of India from a newspaper into a brand and many people think that's a damn bad thing to do but if you take this branding activity into content for instance and even on your title or even on your network you're actually putting extra pressure on yourself because there's already a political pressure to be pro-Indian and then you say Vasudev Kutammakam how would you reconcile this I can tell you the Times of India story but do you tell me yours so why they're first and foremost the word Vasudev Kutammakam largely denotes world is one family and when you really define it in the broader sense of the word and not be biased with the word itself you would perhaps acknowledge that news is all about world being one family I mean that's what that's a bias Rajiv that's that could be a very individual opinion but having said that it's not about being biased it's all about being far more democratic because you feel what affects the world affects us all you know and that's also the tagline on which we have built our new English channel which is the way on right so within the Z media family I think largely we have tried to straddle the globe and as globe is being defined as one group the organization came up with this tagline Vasudev Kutammakam I mean it may necessarily vary in terms of interpretation from one to another but there are no biases attached to it thank you yeah so I have a question for the panel so I run this media platform it's a youth media platform called janki bath and we only do ground reporting that's only ground zero no studios so I have this problem with the world the buyers that is being interpreted here so my question here is that every individual who's grown in the society has an opinion and would have a limited bias so why is there a problem with saying that you have a bias when you any side of the opinion and when media says that it is neutral I think it is inherently an incorrect statement because nobody can be perfectly neutral and if I need neutrality I would go to an AI I would just see the facts so the fact that the viewer wants opinion from the media so why is the panel interpreting bias in a manner as it's negative z has an opinion republic has an opinion n d d has an opinion everybody knows about that yeah so so this is a great great point right so every reporter every collector every human being has its own lens now these are political lenses sociological lenses cultural lenses right that is why every newsroom has a process right that process ensure that there is x court from this person there is why code this verification this data it has been double checked here when we say neutral or unbiased we're talking about a process we're not talking about people giving opinions yeah my name is Chetan and I and I work with the university I work with the agenda university what I have noticed off late the quality content the content is somewhat missing as again you know I'm sorry yeah I'm going to come to you only at the G you see like we know at the evenings they are two or three agendas continuously the media house takes those agenda only to work on it so I mean we know either it's a religion either it's a military either it's a Pakistan you know there are few videos likewise if you'll talk about NDTV other channel India today so you all run as with the agendas in your mind so if we can get to know you know that this month agenda is going to be this then accordingly you know the people will get to know about it so is there some kind of mode to work on it that how these agenda get defined or what is the mind behind these agenda and again the quality of content yeah this is this is to this is to the panel this is to the panel this is to the panel like as I've said India India today also and G also in NDTV too yeah sure I mean let's you know from our perspective there's nothing like an agenda that you planned out but yes there is a newsroom there's a meeting the editor sit down look at what is happening the day and then they've defined that this is what we are going to be talking about or these are the facts so this is what it is and based on it the programs for the day is planned out it's like an editor's editor's room there is a meeting a proper discussion there is a proper process and once that is the agenda or the items have gone through it then you come out and you say okay this is my day's plan agenda is just the news and the truth and we don't sit down and plan out what topics we're going to cover in advance in a month we look at what the day's big stories are and whether they're relevant to people and can we go beyond the obvious which is politicians saying one thing and then fighting slugging it out we do a show called reality check every night which looks at statements that are made policy schemes and shows factually whether those statements and claims are correct or not so our agenda is basically the news you know I want to ask this question Ritu when I acquired business world four plus years back I went to a wise man in the news industry that I respect a lot his name is Raghav Bahal and I asked him can you give me advice I want to turn business I have long way to do that but into a digital and he gave me two sets of advice one he said in editorial only hire young people and not necessarily existing editors and he said that to me you can I'm sure you're in a position to cross check and if you look at second he said to me people who should lead news or the digital company should be ideally is less than 35 or 30 I don't know the age of most of the people at least you shouldn't ask women their age but these three don't look under 35 so is there a lack of leadership in digital companies I mean are the wrong leaders leading I think I'm the wrong eye to lead a digital sometimes right so I really want to ask these I'll because you talked to unlearning because at the start you said you had to earn I think to become digital we have to earn that's the point I'm trying to make young young I'm saying should younger people be running digital companies over stress the importance of experience and sure younger people are great it depends on what kind of organization you're talking about online if it's Buzzfeed perhaps a 30-something would be better at leading it if it's something like media legacy brand a news brand I think you need the experience that comes with having done that and also technology is not impossible for older people to get sure but mindset is you know you have great technology back in great content we understand UI you know we all know how to use a phone we all access information on the phone so we're just playing to our strengths and talking to other people like us yeah is that fair I just like to add one thing here I we're actually out of time so if we can thank you thank you so much well that was very interesting I now invite Mr