 What we have seen in the present days is the emergence of a kind of anemic state. The state is in a kind of declining trend. I say decline in the sense because of the increasing trend of globalization and marketization that we have seen. The days of welfare state as if it is gone. So, are you still optimistic about the role of the state in in furthering your cause? You have already identified the role of the civil society, you are leading the international movement. But what about the state, sir? Actually the role of state in tackling the crime against its citizens can never be diminished. The role of state will always be there. The policing cannot be done or should not be done by private agencies, it should be the role of the state, role of the government. So what is happening globally that the role of state is squeezing, especially in the development sector and economic sector. And the development sector and economic sector is also pressurizing the state to be more liberal so that they can play freely. That is a common demand from the industries, from the corporates and so on. But two things which are happening simultaneously, the role of corporate is growing. And the globalization and marketization is also creating some sort of very deep and wide competitiveness, competitions among the corporates. So the competition also trying to balance and control each other in terms of prizes, in terms of other things. But more importantly, the role of civil society that includes consumers and consumer organizations, that includes the media and media groups, that includes the vigilant individuals and civil society, NGOs and etc., teachers, academics, it is also growing which has not been the case 20 years ago. I remember that being the founder of two single largest civil society initiatives in the known history in the world, one against child labor and one for education, the global march against child labor and the global campaign for education. I know that how difficult was for me and my colleagues to have a strong space and voice in the global deliberations and discourses, development discourses of course, to bring our strong voices in the decision making in ILO, UNICEF, UNESCO in these industries, World Bank very very difficult. But now nobody can ignore the voices of the civil society, we are invited, not me but so many other organizations that has grown, that has a major paradigm shift in this regard. So the civil society's voices are heard. So now in the new trend, the ethical and moral responsibility and ethical and moral accountability on these two vast increasing sectors, corporate and civil society are much more vital than ever before in the history. They have to be more accountable morally, socially, economically. They have to be more transparent and that transparency and accountability is a very important factor in both these cases, in the change role of trade I would say. Sir, at the same time do you think sir that democracy is a prerequisite for furthering the cause of the child rights? Well democracy is of course, it is a philosophy, it is a culture and then it is a political system. So for me it is a culture and philosophy both beside the political system alone. So when we talk of democracy, the democracy in governance is a system but I am the one who has been fighting and demanding of democratization of knowledge, democratization of technology. What does it mean? Knowledge for all, knowledge by all, knowledge of all. What are you doing through this community radio? You are trying to democratize knowledge because you are taking input from the community and you are replying back both ways. So creation of knowledge from the community and through the community that would be further utilized by the community because it is their knowledge in a much more organized manner. These are the efforts which helps in democratization of knowledge. So democratization of power at all levels is equally important within the political parties we have to think of democracy within the administrative institutions we have to think. Academic institutions we have to establish democracy where the voices of everyone is heard and respected. So I believe in the culture of democracy in all respect. Sir, do not you think it is easier to protect a child here in India because we have a democratic system or in Great Britain or in USA then in a country like Iraq or somewhere where we have a very rigid and monolithic government till the last few years. So don't you think it is easier in a democratic frame to further the cause of the child? Yes, of course. Of course. All causes, causes of women, causes of children, causes of tribal people, it is possible to raise your voice when the media is free and democratic, in democracy. When the media can bring about those issues, social workers can do it. I could work in India because of democracy. I could raise an issue which was a non-issue. It was a serious problem but it was not noticed. The people thought 35 years ago, 40 years ago when I started working people thought that children are poor and they are working what is bad in it. 100 years ago, it is not too long or less than 100 years ago, globally in most countries people thought that the women are second great citizens. They are for our comfort, they are for our service, they are for all kind of things. They are not considered equal to men but some people raise the voice especially in democratic setups. The voice has grown much more higher and bigger, stronger. So is in India, when I started my fight against child labour and child slavery, my fight was also against a system which was creating and perpetuating that evil. My fight was also against those mafia and criminals who were responsible for that but it was possible because of democracy. So I attribute it to the democracy of my country because media has been able to multiply my voice because I have got some sort of support from very, very important and milestone judgments from the Supreme Court of India and high courts that has authenticated in a way and that has given a kind of social and moral sanctity to the issue for freedom of children and that was possible because of democracy. Also the issue was discussed by the parliament members. Some of the parliament members are always good and they raise these issues in the parliament and also in the state assemblies because of democracy. So we are fighting against an evil and a crime only through democracy.