 I Will go ahead and start off with the intro I know we have a couple people that will be back in a second But I think they already know the first part of what I'm going to say anyway, so So does everyone okay? Who here knows what mind share the new the mind share committee is? Okay, so one does not okay them so the mind share as as it says up there the fedora mind share can represents the outreach leadership in fedora which includes Docs websites ambassadors design Marketing am I forgetting anything else Brian? What all is in mind share? Everything that's not yeah. Oh, yeah that picture. Yeah, so everything over on that right side from Here over is part of mind share and So the idea is to hopefully get us to coordinate with the other teams and It all mind share is also replacing what? replacing famsco for the ambassadors and So that's a little brief overview Does anyone have any any questions or comments yet? So I do not see Sumantro. I thought he would be giving an overview of the new proposals Yes, I will we will go back to that topic later because Since he's writing coming up with the drafts of the new proposals I think I think he would be the best one to talk about it so also the budget is being restructured what used to be the regional budgets so that it is all allocated to mind share and Mindshare will be the one approving event proposals Which I guess are we effectively there now because the regions are basically out of money? Yeah, because I think I was looking at the budget. So I was looking at the budget site and So what we had done was go ahead and give a fourth of the budget to the regions like what we've done before but it appears roughly from the budget site that The regions are pretty much out of the budget any out of that budget anyway, so even though we haven't really updated Some of the documentation yet future requests will pretty much have We're just going to direct those to Mindshare anyway because we're not going to push it out another quarter and Change the budget again And our idea is to try to make it a I Mean not a big long bureaucratic process, especially if someone is wanting a smaller event Especially we're trying to promote release parties and You can get a hundred dollar budget for a release party and Only a certain amount of it is supposed to go for food pretty much by Having a decent proposal and asking for it Not requiring a bunch of meetings and everything We want it for people to get stuff done Because if you make the process really hard then People will be less likely to do it Proposals or well, Samantra is writing them so Becks can bring them up on the screen if you want to show something Okay, okay, so to start with I am Shimantra and Here is what we have so we wanted to create a process which is less frictionless in terms of budget and It's very accessible to everyone who wants to play kind of promote Fedora and Talk about Fedora, but not in terms of just talking They have to be some sort of long-time or a decent contributor in terms of the project So we came out with a way by which we could achieve this and that is by this program called advocate So where we go ahead and we say hey if you are a long-time contributor and you want to spread the knowledge about what you are Contributing exactly to so let's say I am a QA guy and if I want to spread knowledge about How I do the QA process and on board the community with me This is exactly what I can do now since Advocates since ambassadors where primary responsible for outreach events We kind of created a template by which advocates can go ahead request for such budgets and Activities like and we said you can go hold release parties Requesting for a hundred dollar budget and there will be no question asked and it would be approved So by virtue of your work you become an advocate When you are ready to kind of take more responsibilities towards your goals Representing your region you kind of move towards more of like the ambassador program, which is currently designed to Like handle more of Regional responsibilities, but if you want to be a face of Fedora in your area I think advocate is the best way to go now most of the people who are ambassadors right now Some of them due to work pressure and timings they kind of miss out on this opportunity of mentoring new people and Since we want that I mean we don't want that we kind of new people tend to come in and they move towards the the very known name of the names from the area and Let's say if he if NB is a known name and everyone goes to him And he cannot give time most of the like attention kind of gets divided and finally people lose interest So we kind of went ahead and said hey there there is something called We are always grateful to whatever in like NB or the ambassador has done But we are going to move them to Emirati and be Status which basically Emirati status which would basically say we're grateful that you have helped for so long and so so much But since you cannot like you know, you cannot direct everyone guide everyone now You can like take a step back and then whenever you feel you are ready to go again Just send us a request and we will resume your sponsorship to ambassadors program So that's that's mostly what Emirates and ambassadors have been like situation for now, and I think we would have a process around it very soon and So this session was mostly to have an update on whatever we are doing, right? Oh, yes feedbacks My plan for this session was just kind of to give a little Just I mean to give a little update on what we've been doing Okay Back in March, I believe it was we had the mind share committee fad And I think we made a lot of progress and then a lot of the time here I want to spend just discussing ideas What people think about the things we're working on currently and so on Did you have anything else to say about the Okay That's pretty much everything I had on the stuff. I just wanted to talk about so now I think Does anyone have any comments or questions about the things we've mentioned so far I want to spend most of the time here brainstorming working on Making plans for what Mindshare should should do. I was hoping to have more of our committee here, but quite a few people several people couldn't be here I think but To be honest for me, this looks like what we intended with the ambassadors maybe eight years ago when When is when the ambassador project or sub project or whatever we want to call it start growing most people in Where CLA plus five CLA plus ten and There were people were doing Ambassador stuff beside the Did regular? contributions to Fedora and for me, this looks likely we want to have the kind of a super ambassador and Kind of make it hard for people who just want to tell people about Fedora and not so much engaged in this whole Ecosystem, right? I think the the idea behind it is pretty much the actual ambassador group is not We're not really proposing changing Becoming being an ambassador, but we're wanting to make it easy for people. Okay say You're say hypothetically, I mean you're someone who works in Engineering or something or you and you just want to have a release party where wherever you live and That way we're wanting to make it easy for people to do small events without having to actually join the ambassadors team Yeah, we're wanting to make it we're wanting to make it easier for people to do stuff and that can I can I can I summarize? I think I think there's there's four main points. I think that that summarize it I think it's we want to reduce the friction for things like release parties or small events So that it's not a lot of bureaucracy to try to get through so so that that's that's step number one Step number two is an advocates program. That's that's easier to get into the in the ambassador than the ambassador's program is Little less less work little less less rigorum rigamarole Easier easier for people who aren't already engaged in other other things in fedora to get in and and share what they've learned so far And then and then my fourth point was for people who have been an ambassador But have kind of stepped away from doing that and are focused on other things Set them as an emeritus ambassador, so they still get that recognition for the great work that they did But then it's easier for us to tell okay Who's actively engaged as an ambassador and who has been ambassador, but has stepped away? But I think it's really those four main points Does that does that help clarify the another scene that? We can We get when we've made the fact that is that Normally people think that they need to be an ambassador to attend events with the advocate program like it's not like we want to have a Super ambassador that will be developing sees admitting and then he will be an ambassador But to let him Have a way to go through the budget process easily and do a conference representative Fedora Yeah, I don't know if I explain a little bit but the idea is that There was kind of If you are not an ambassador you should not be organizing events And that's what we want to change that that kind of thinking you if you want to organize a small event or attend to an event And give a speech talking about I don't know for the modularity or fedora ci or or a tommy working group You don't need to be actually an ambassador because the advocate program is an easy to enter program And you can get funding to attend to an event Right just hold a event. That's it Just hold any event. That's it But that so so as a member of a team any team I'm able to I'm able to ask the advocate program for for the cash I would need to do some sort of an event right of a certain of a size that I determined That's good. Okay Are there any plans to have a Program where we're identifying people who are specifically Ready for public speaking Okay, so here is the thing that is exactly what the point of advocates was It was designed for people who become advocates By virtue of their work, so for example if he is from marketing, I think he needs the mic Yeah, so if he is from marketing and he wants to speak about how to get started with marketing But he needs an event and he has a release party He can go ahead speak and get more contributors to help him out and that's exactly improve his Improves his situation and for specifically public speaking. There is nothing but yes, we would love to have something On those lines so we can address Let's say, you know if I am not a public speaker, but I am a regular contributor to the project Here are a couple of like videos or some kind of masterclass which I can attend and then I can be a better public speaker in those lines like Like understanding very directly the Key talking points for example one that Matt pointed out and the keynote was was bleeding edge versus leading edge and talking about Fedora in in the terms that we want people to identify and and Yes, so this is exactly another thing that I mean ambassador advocates has Adviced and which is you they better work with an ambassador So every one of us tells the same story in the same manner and we do not come I mean we do not come communicate any discrepancy that way We kind of reduce as as much as Difference of opinion that we can have so that you know It's easier for everyone to use a single templated out stuff and roll it wherever Iterated as many times as they want and still still be correct I think that's something that possibly the marketing team could work on is coming up with things like what David was saying about Like that we're not bleeding edge things to talking points to help people know how to reach to Common questions you might get because I know I've heard that at events too About like well Fedora is like the bleeding edge and I don't want my computer to bleed Yeah, well actually that's one of the key points of the talk tomorrow in marketing is that We get completely disconnected from the Basel program, but like completely disconnected We are collecting parking post and ambassador are not using it. So one of the key points of of the marketing Plan for the next six months through one year will be to recover this connection and tell them, you know This is what we need to do to talk. Please try to avoid to To say things if and if you have a doubt Please come to us or come to the council or whatever you need to talk to ask but we need to Reconnect the ambassadors with a messaging that is coming from the council through the marketing team So that's one of the things we need to achieve. I see it completely the opposite way I think the ambassadors need to feed their feedback into marketing and marketing Has to follow the input from the ambassadors because they are the people who are out there and speaking to the people Okay, I'm gonna answer that question a little bit You certainly need to close the loop right the feedback loop definitely needs to be closed But there need to be answers that are very clear and concise for advocates to understand in the first place for example For example when someone asks What happens if I get sued for for using fedora? Right, that's not something you want to close the feedback loop on from the from the ambassadors feed from the ambassadors Response first you want to make sure that you have an active answer for that in the first place Also We come to realize because the marketing team was reduced to me and another guy That is really hard to work in messaging if we are just two persons. So now we divide the functions of marketing If it was not published it is still in the mailing list because we need to focus before in ambassadors But the messaging is going through My share and marketing will be the execution in part only That's the way we want to close that gap with ambassadors But this is it's planet and it's blocked because we need to figure out this first I refuse to resist all the feedback document everything and then go through other plans, but definitely is on the way Any other question or follow-up? Yeah, I have a question if you can elaborate a bit more about how budgets and The payment process will look like in the future We have Brian there so Maybe also remark. I think it's good that you have some kind of Permission by default for low amounts. That is what you try achieve for the advocate I think that's a good idea and I'm not a big fan of looking backwards But we had this in the beginning that a proven Ambassador was able to just use an amount of money, but of course it's not It's it's redheads money. So I think there needs some kind of a control instance for that But I think it's a step in the right direction But I because I'm concerned directly with doing the payments. I would like to know How it will be handled in the future. So Do we handle then the payments also for India as example, which I would like to do so that's what I like to hear I'm gonna rudely make you repeat your last sentence because there was a scheduling Emergency that flashed on my screen and I am very sorry, but I stopped listening to you because it could you repeat just the last sentence I had everything up until then. Yeah, I just wanted to know how payments in the future will be processed and handled because regional to I Think a global budget this also reflects on the credit card holders. So Okay, I'm happy to handle payments also for other regions in the world But if yes, how this will be handled so Kind of a couple things to update for reasons completely unrelated to the individuals in those regions We currently don't have working credit cards in a pack and let them and that's that's a thing That has we've been trying to figure out how to resolve this There have been some technical challenges there so we definitely need to move to having the individuals who do have the Community cards able to pay across regions and able to do it in an effective way One of the blocks that we've had right now has been that if you're in region a it's hard to get Visibility into what's going on in region B because they often have completely different processes for what the ticket status is whether it's private or not How do you know when a ticket is actually ready to be reimbursed? Is there supposed to be an event URL in there? Is it that's something? There's a there's a companion ticket somewhere else like every region's done it differently and at the mind-shape ad We came up with the idea of some terribly named finance team because it had the word bexing cake in it But I think it was the cake warriors So we're not going to do that But what we did come up with was this idea that we should ask the card holders if they're willing and the treasures if they're willing to Work across the regions and because everything was going to funnel through a single process that we're going to Explicate here then it would be very easy for these folks to know From a reimbursements perspective We've been doing a lot of experimentation with alternative ways of getting money to people So that we can also return money to contributors in ways that make more sense Traditionally the project had always returned money to contributors in the form of US dollars via PayPal and that was Inconvenient for the vast majority of our actual contributors Because they don't use the US dollars their functional currency and in several countries of the world PayPal is not an acceptable form of payment Because even if they can receive it in some countries you can never withdraw the cash So we've been looking at trying to do that as well We've been using transfer wise to a great effect and then we've also been relaxing the currency rule So like if you spent your money in euros you get euros back Because that's how much that's what you have to pay your credit card bill in So those two things I think are our answers to your question And I think the idea of trying to pick a committee of people who can really help us process Transactions would be very useful here Okay, so I suppose that for the details written down This is what you're working on right now because then I need to access other Pagura or Pagar or however you want to call that sessions or systems instances So what we've been looking at is Potentially the idea of asking the mind share committee's details to be focused much like this document here By the way, this is a pull request in the mind share Pagar if you want to read it on your own screen This doesn't tell you how to get your money back. It tells you what you're allowed to do The how you get your money back in this lives in the budget repository That way we can have a single Uniform set of rules for how the project manages its money So that you don't have different rules based on the day of the week the person you talked to the region You're in And I think that that's going to help a lot here because then we might have card holders who are not ambassadors They're just people who that's the form of contribution. They want to make maybe they're actually accountants And they that is how they wish to participate in the project And then they can get access to the budget repo where it will be clear. This is what I reimbursed This is not ready for reimbursement. Um, so that's that's how I think we're hoping to do that one thing that we We talked about a lot at the fad was The current situation we're in is caused partially by there being so many undocumented rules So can we simplify the rules and document them? All of the weird ugly hard bits and like give it to a team that's dedicated to that form of weird ugly hard bit where it becomes simple for them and in More simple terms the the the way we We try to manage this is to release the the task of handling money from ambassadors To mind share and then allow people that handle money as a job Maybe or they want to contribute only in that way Don't not require to pass to the whole ambassador process to get into the project to help So that's that's the main goal here and make The ambassador focus in their in their definition they need to be the face of Fedora They don't need to to Be concerned about how the money is being wasted You just he just need to go to event organize events and speak to people because there are people people in the in the description Okay, so this will also mean that future credit card holders will not have Any longer the right to make any judgment decisions as we have at the moment Because at the moment we had this kind of rule That we can approve until a 400 euros or 500 US dollars if it's urgent and if a judgment decision is needed and enough Yeah, exactly that it was written down. I made the old Payment process. Maybe you remember the weird graphics that I have done which nobody understood but Yeah, so but for for these people maybe also then we have other rules then That's a question. So In at the fad what we talked about was the idea of Administrative versus ministerial So ministerial is an action that you you will perform it when all of the checkboxes are checked Yes, and an administrative action is one where you have to make a decision and the goal was to try and push the Administrative decision earlier in the process so that we have things like the you're doing a release party. We're done here You're administratively approved. These are the specific checkboxes. You must take in order to be reimbursed We're done and then the the card holders can go the three checkboxes are checked Reimbursed we expect the card holders to still be fiduciarily Appropriate so you know if it comes in on the receipt and it says I don't know they bought seven thousand dollars worth of computing on a one hundred dollar Authorization for food we expect you to throw up a flag and not just approve the charge You know if there's questions, we expect people to look at it But the hope is that we won't need the emergency release of a treasurer making Decisions about approving events because the community will actually be able to function and act and approve those And you could argue that the work that you all have been doing in the regions where that rule exists Has been critical because the community there hasn't been able to effectively make those decisions We also discussed that I Don't remember what we were just throwing around numbers But anything up to a couple hundred dollars or something one member of the mindshare committee could just say this sounds good do it and It not not every decision even if it's not a release party Not necessarily every decision will require a vote of the committee Just one member saying kind of basically kind of like the card holders now where you can say They can make a judgment. There's the decision that we do. Yes. I think there's two important points there One know that that it doesn't require the whole committee to wait till their next meeting to make a decision And to it's it's you know make that public so people have a chance to you know a comment period So, you know maybe one person on the on the committee plus waiting 24 hours or 48 hours So that people have a chance to say oh that doesn't sound right, you know before it's approved But but process down to where you can have a decision in two or three days not two or three weeks or two or three months Yeah, in North America, we've made it so pretty much everything is approved by our meetings or well used to be at least but Certain things Andrew would just pay like if I needed shipping supplies we didn't vote on it. I just Ordered them and send them the receipt if I needed boxes or we use UPS for shipping and I'm going to interrupt us and ask a question of the audience Because we're all the audience and we're all the speakers I'm hearing a lot of people in agreement Expressing the same ideas with different words and so I'm kind of curious is there anyone who actually disagrees? Fundamentally or partially with what they're hearing about we're going to make small dollar amounts easy to get to We're basically airing on trusting people and we're going to make larger dollar amounts Be approved through this other process that may have multiple tiers of ways of making decisions So that we can hopefully get to decisions faster and more uniformly in regions And then we're going to use a centralized set of the same processes to reimburse people across the project Without regards to whether it was say a release party an ambassador event or a fedora women's day Is there anybody who has like a fundamental objection to that? Are you going to handle a our request around the world like only you I think you will be the butler neck No mind share committee will I am not going to be a bottleneck here I do not want to be the sole responsible person and the world should not stop if I get sick or go on vacation I Have no disagreement, but maybe a wish for the future mind share So that what I see is that maybe at the moment It's necessary, but that's very focused inside our own community and I think We we should much much more look into how we get the message out. What is our goal? With mind share do we focus on users that become a contributors one day how we do that? I have good experiences going to universities and teaching there But there need to be some enablement for that then also some kind of some controversial things like going to regions where maybe people are poor and under represented and maybe also also political issues evolve To to support this communities And I think that's a wish that mind share would focus on giving a more clear vision What ambassadors marketing how they can? Feed each other feedbacks and how they go out and spread the message Instead of focus too much in words I understand that you are at the moment in a state where you need to do that because if you are not structured You will not get so to the next step You've hit the nail on the head as the idiom goes That is actually Almost a hundred percent of what we tried to consume ourselves with at the mind share fad is this the mechanics of Reimbursement or the mechanics of I don't know becoming an ambassador had consumed a hundred percent of the Conversation space within the project in most regions and the actual act of going to the university was a distant one percent and so we want to flip that around and that actually comes kind of to the second part of Of what we talked about which was soul has asked that we try to focus on the additions and the objectives as Those are our desired target audiences This is not to say we shouldn't go anywhere else or do anything else But like when people come to us if they go I want to spend you know $10,000 to hold an event to get to a bowl all of whom are Python developers and therefore they're going to use workstation They're going to use server and they're going to use the Python classroom lab Versus I want to spend ten thousand dollars to get to a thousand people all of whom are llama farmers and They might choose to install fedora on their home PCs to watch movies Because we don't currently have any llama specific spins remixes or software That allows mind share to make a decision about the value of those two ten thousand dollar spins But I think you're a hundred percent right that the real question is how do we feed back that loop of the ambassadors were in the The streets so to speak and everybody went we have no idea what modularity is And so how do we better tell that story or do we want to tell the story of modularity? And and actually there's all there's several problems. For example Even if you can show the The graphic when there is all the teams in fedora That one there is a lot of disconnection between for example Or or even in the objective of each working group on each team for example and come ups have this problem marketing have this problem and For example there in a specific example that people was using outdated design material and There is a tons of problem that come To be solved by mention in the time But the the we focus primarily in solve the ambassador problem But we are really aware that it's another stuff to work on and we are trying to Split the time to work and several things But our main focus was on this because it was a the harder problem to Work on and the most big audience to reach because there is four regions to reach with among ambassadors I think we should try new ways to speak to the people like youtube videos That not necessary We have to spend money or something We record a video once and the video will be maybe forever online or something So i'm going to call you out a little bit. Can you make that video? Like um and the reason i bring this up is one of the things that took so long to get the The advocates piece written Was we fell victim to our own problem of we have lots of ideas and no one put it together in the doc And honestly it was it was sitting down him Stop that It was him sitting down and just banging out a document and then we dedicated an hour to like everybody pushing on it To get it to this polished form So i think that we need to stop asking for permission And just start doing and that's the whole thing we're doing with advocates the whole thing We're doing with the least parties. I think you're a hundred percent right that in some places in the world We need to be using social media or youtube etc differently It may be that it has a massive impact in brazil and a terrible impact in france. I don't know But what's stopping you from producing that to be successful? What's stopping you from getting to the university? What's stopping you from going to an event and talking about modularity? Let's unblock that Rather than say we should do x but then no one wants to do it Also, I want to encourage all of you and To reach the marketing mailing list and or Reach Via the irc marketing with your ideas. We need ideas because of Not only There is no universal strategy that is going to work everywhere in the world. So right now. I'm pushing the podcast um, I have a Well, it was original my youtube channel to make other videos that different the flock dolls because if you go through the The channel you only want to find flock talks And I think I have a plan for use the instagram account We have a social media team that works on twitter. So Do you know your region? Because it's your region You know your country if you have an idea how to reach your people come here Tell me I want to do that and you need what you need to do it You need permission that you to have a camera can do it You need permission in the social media. Maybe I cannot do it But I can't reach the one who is going to help you but Try to get the ideas out to us To see how can help you to make the idea that idea happens so What time is it because I think we have a two blocks sessions Yeah, well so one of the things I wanted to cover from Given some of the context of mindshare being focused on the other outreach teams This is a recent experience that I had trying to organize an event in north america but I'm trying really like I was putting in a lot of effort to try to self educate myself on the fedora objectives and to try to Figure out a strategy for bringing them to an event at a university. I was planning to organize and so in the effort of trying to find like some kind of like talking points or like Marketable bullet points or something I could something I could bring to try to help me understand What makes sense or what doesn't make sense to bring to this event Uh There was In the things I could find without asking someone it was not easy for me to find resources and then I spent the time like I reached out to the points of contact for The objectives and I tried to ask for where I could find information and I had a either no response to Some response to very engaged and one of the things I kind of wanted to Pilot or or try to drive mindshare to Do is to be the connecting piece between the objective leads And or not just the leads but the objectives and the people behind the objectives with the outreach and marketing teams So one of the things I actually wanted to try to propose is if we try to Work at the council level as mindshare To make the part of like proposing an objective with like in fedora to have an objective recognized by the fedora council To have a relationship with some of the outreach teams like say marketing for eduard I know he's been trying to do a lot of these things and He's asking for ideas and how to how to find these things to promote and share And like I think of like from having taken the time to lead marketing team Like I think of the talking points that we did for releases like that format Was invaluable like to me like when I was going to an event Those talking points were like my bible for what I would I would refer to like to freshen up on something before I Or for the last release as I go to this event And they had mixed they had mixed reviews about how well used they were but that format was invaluable to me And I feel like having an equivalent format For the objectives would be an extremely valuable resource For ambassadors and for marketing So like that's what I kind of wanted to just Open a a topic for discussion is better integration of the fedora of Via via mindshare to the outreach teams And whether like and if there's not if this all makes sense then like I think that Should we try to drive a relationship there and to try to work at a Council level as I feel like it's very critical to make This relationship stronger because I I've had a very like I've had to work really hard To find this information for this event and if you know, I've been involved in the project for three years And I'm having to go through three different Legs of email chains just to get an answer of like what is our objective? What do we talk about our objective at a fedora event? I know there's going to be very few people that are going to do that work To get that information So to me the problem I'm trying to solve or I'm trying to solve in my head is how do we unearth The information from the engineering teams like from the engineering side of the project to the outreach teams I think it would be good. I think it's a good idea. I think it would be nice if all of the objectives would Just give us some little notes on a basic of What is this What should what are some things talking points that we should talk about? I think uh, maybe I'm horribly wrong Please correct me if I'm wrong But I think the the problem you are addressing is hard to work on Because objective is the future in the project not the now in the project So how can you reach people if there's something that is being developed yet? But modality have three years in the made so Is the answer that we don't talk about Our objectives at fedora events like Where so then if if if these objectives aren't in a place to To share or to talk about it there the future then what do our ambassadors? What is the content we're asking our ambassadors to go out and represent and advocate for? Yeah, I mean I get your idea, but at least for me it will always be depending on your audience But for example for a newcomer to go even if he's a really good developer Just go through the all modularity developing. It would be really hard So I'm not sure is is I'm not saying don't talk about it, but having keynotes or or or real facts of what they are doing Will be hard if they are still working on it. For example the iot is still is not a sick yet even so they are Rather than I think that both of you are right Um, I think some of our objectives have reached a point in their life cycle where they are mature enough that there's a message We need to convey and you're right that other of our objectives are still in the development phase and there's not an outward bound messaging I think what I heard justin say was For the ones where we're supposed to have a message We don't know what that message is and we need a mechanism by which we discover that message So the mind share committee has a representative on council That position is currently held by somebody who's Away, so perhaps we should consider filling that position with someone else for a while And I've already talked to the person who's away So he would be okay with it And that would give us a platform to bring up during the Council meetings, especially when we're doing objective reports For us to look somebody like I'll pick on peter to look peter robinson in the face and go You just gave an objective report on iot. Are we ready to talk about this or not? Is there a thing here and like last month peter's response would have been no We do not have a clean build if you go out and talk there's literally nothing for someone to touch I believe next month peter's response would be yes There is now a thing and it runs on these particular boards And this is what we could talk about but we can use our representative to council to ask those questions Right now I can ask those questions on share and I've taken a note to do so And I think we can frankly open a council ticket to request that data where it's appropriate Because both of you are right We want to talk about objectives, but we don't want to talk about the ones that aren't ready to be talked about So I think we can open a ticket in the council to require the objective leader to inform when they are ready to go out So I would say two things The first is the objective leads and and the additions do present regular reports to council So to some degree these teams We all need to be willing to listen to the report they're producing not demand that they reproduce the report in a format We like better So we should 100 percent be paying attention to those things Um, and in fact, I would even challenge this group in particular further by saying if you look back at the previous council reports Some of the sub project reports are amazingly good material for things like just outright advertising the project and gaining mind share The one that comes to my mind most recently is the one on the fedora red team um Like that was just a really good report or the one on the The disc thing which I can't remember the name of at the moment. It was a really good report Like it's worthy of packaging on its own Um, but I think we need to listen And not demand the other is that I think it's extraordinarily reasonable for us to ask council to do something like what documentation did documentation asked the program manager to modify the change process so that release notes are a required part of the deliverable So that there's a process that recognized the balance between the number of contributors We have in documentation and the number of change makers we had and made it so that docs could actually integrate to Hopefully produce proper release notes with each release That's in progress if we have something similar. We should definitely ask for council to say hey, like you know as a part of the Objective reports we would like to see a summary in there that says these are the things we're ready to go talk to the world about That's one slide. That's one set of statements. Whatever That's I think a great way for us to both listen and then ask for things in a better format Because if you ask me to give a presentation on modularity But you don't tell me that's what's important to you. I may not include it But if you tell me what's that's important to you that's Very small incremental level of extra work for me So we can just be upfront about those kinds of asks as well Yeah, I totally for example, I'm going to build myself as example in the last In the last release hold is the The Latin America Intels Fest we holding hold Latin America. I talk about modularity But this was me who was reaching the information I talked with landon and talked with adam I put all the the slide they have together and produce a As light says for myself, but I agree with you. There should be a place when I can just have the keynotes to to be able to Understand all this material and put it out to the world But for example, the other example is how can you talk about iot or iot if you don't have anything yet And it's a current objective. So do we not we need to have this this balance? And I think we are using the the council it will be the best thing to do using our representative in in In the council So couple of months back Uh In india, we had something in wibble's college. It was called the install fest slash hack fest so where Cheyenne gave a talk on infrastructure and there was an install fest which was going on So what we created out of it? We created a kind of a template of installing fedora In any kind of environment be it on bare metal virtualization hypervisor server cloud workstation Whatever that we could on a single block of text with links And that acted kind of like a template for most of the people who wanted to do install fest type of events Wherever they wanted to reproduce that we had to do for every release. So let's say it was done in 27 Someone wants to do it in 28. We just had to update the links And it would act like a bare minimum boiler plate So let's say if I say I want to do an install fest. I can be pointed to one wiki which has all the prerequisites Whatever that I was what am I supposed to do in that event? And how and what are kind of an examples as in the reports and the blog post of this is exactly how People did it. There can be you to your videos. There can be Presentation links which can be reused over and over again like let's say you made a modularity slide I can I want to do a modularity event, but I have no clue what it is So probably there can be one template which talks about this is an event by which you reach out to audience If you're talking about modularity This has five resources one of the resources is your slides And I know okay. You presented it. So if I talk to you, it's easier for me to understand how You reached out what your problems were and if I have a better solution I can probably implement And when I am done, I am supposed to share my experiences on the same boiler plate template Which can be then reused and by any other Ambassadors so this is one of the things which I learned from mozilla because they have been doing something like this For years now. So they have something called a reps program Which is similar to our ambassadors program and they have something called assets dot mozilla.org Which has almost all slides shows all videos and they have Literally event templates for all kind of events that they do So if someone comes up with a mixed event template, they can even create their own event template out there And say, hey, you know what we want to do this kind of an event and this is how it should look like And if let's say they run it and that becomes successful We go ahead run it in all other places of the world whoever is willing to run it that way, right? And that gives us more room to explore because We right now have release parties fads Hackfest those are the only three type of events that we generally do And install fest a couple of times But we don't have any other things like a specific crack of how things would look like if we have a one day session on Let's say what modularity is building modules and pushing them We probably do not have any template or guideline or anything for that matter to say how it can be done So if that can be put out somewhere it's easier for almost all the advocates and ambassadors to refer that as a permanent boilerplate Unless I mean, you know always approved by council as a source of document which can be referred to And then if something changes we change that and anyone can repeat and re-execute it any part of the world and actually just Thinking on top of my head I'm not good to leave probably going to say you the the documentation is there You know, if you go through them through the council documentation, there is a part of talking about the objective maybe it's just one paragraph, but Yeah But I would be they going to say this is the key point of the objective if you want to be Deeper than that go to a meeting or something. I don't know I mean, I'm just making An assumption that if they don't willing to help but that I don't know that it's not that way but The information is there I just want to confirm that because I'm I think I'm the worst packageer in the world But even I got it done to teach packaging with the documentation that we have in fedora and Go to Yeah places and teach people how to stop packaging and I think That can also be done with new stuff But it's right the documentation Maybe needs to be updated for new stuff If it's specific Specifically for the objective documentation I find that that documentation is written for a very technical audience not the audience of Ambassadors or outreach teams so Finding a bridge there Is like that's why I'm a little bit mixed that's of just like kind of like chalking it up that if the information's there You have to just go and dig for it and find it because it's like if the answer is like to watch a 60 minute video to find the five minute piece That i'm really looking for I have to summarize how I want to relay that information and I got an event Am I really understanding that or am I just like repeating this five minutes piece that was like Seemed it relevant for me like I don't know like it. It's I think I think you've you've touched on it there, which is There are talks I will not give about fedora because I am not and this is not imposter syndrome But I am just not technically competent in that area. I have a package that I maintain I would never lead a packaging workshop Because I've literally done my one package I can't tell you any of the other idiosyncrasies that occur in packaging other things on the other hand And i'm picking on jared because he's not looking at me. I'd expect jared could leave a packaging workshop literally right now Because he's done so much packaging Um, and so I I guess I would turn that around by saying One of the things that the advocate program emphasized was the idea that you should be an existing contributor in an area of the project One of the things that I heard you say was that the original ambassador cadre in fedora Were all like cla plus 10 because they were extraordinarily active people in the project As we bring on people in the project whose first objective is advocacy I think that they're going to need to make decisions about what they're competent As well as comfortable to speak about And in some cases the challenge you're running into is that objective x did a crappy job of conveying their information And in some cases what you may be running into is that you are not able to Present on objective x because you don't have time to delve into it and learn it Even if you potentially have those skills And then I guarantee that we could sit down and come up with an objective that neither of us will ever understand Because it's just in an area of math or science or something that we don't have Um, so like I don't want ambassadors to ever at least personal opinion here not fk But personal opinion. I don't want an ambassador to feel compelled to give a talk on a topic. They don't understand I don't want an ambassador to ever feel compelled to give a talk on a topic They don't agree with or don't care about But I do want somebody to be able to go, you know My heart and soul is in x and I'm going to go out and talk about it And then the committee can you know the project the committee the project can make the decision about how much Financial resource we wish to commit to that message, but we're not going to block you Um, and if you're having trouble finding the information on the objective We need to figure out which of those three it is and if it's just crappy information dispersal Let's go back to those guys if it's they're not ready yet Let's understand that yeah, and if it's you're not ready yet Let's also be willing to look you in the face and go. I don't know that you're ready to take this to that audience Is it really the right audience for this message? Because even even if you have a slideshow like if we do have some sort of pre-made slideshow for Modularity and you have no idea what the heck modularity is You're going to be standing up. You might be standing up there looking at and be like well This says we have this thing called modularity and it is good and So I I think I think having pre-made resources is a very good thing because it can help you like Okay, I know a little of what modularity is and I might would be able to talk about it if I had Some more resources Because all I know really is what it is and it lets you install different versions of Packages or I guess that they call them streams But I don't really know enough that I could just say I'm going to go talk about modularity But with resources probably could but like Bex was saying sometimes I think You just have to go based on what You're familiar with too And with regard to events there's also trying to recruit people to come to the event like Last year I was planning Lisa which I forgot what it started stands for large installation system administration I think and So I we were trying to plan it and I was like well this conference is about systems administration Why don't I get someone from fedora in front? to come Be to come help at that event so ricky elrod who is an ambassador But doesn't do a whole lot with ambassadors. I got ahold of him and he said yeah, sure he would come and so It were sometimes it can be useful to get people with Certain knowledge depending on What the target of the event is Actually, that's one of the other points. I want to hit In the ambassadors ground is that maybe You are willing to talk and you want to organize events But you it's it's impossible that you are the one that know everything in the project every objective every Python SIG every working group, but you need to be able to know how to reach them And if you don't know at least you should be able to go to the join SIG that supposed to have this objective to lead people into the right groups And then they can teach you you know what you need to talk with this guy And we also possibly could make some sort of wiki page or something of who might be interested in talking speaking about XYZ Yeah, maybe why not maybe just do at least you know what we are looking for people that is Willing to help in the talk if you have a topic just put it yourself in there Yeah, that's a good idea. It doesn't have to be them committing to Doing it anytime someone asked but just a list of hey, I might be interested in doing this So at least a list of people to contact and say hey I'm thinking about that we should do whatever would you be interested in coming speaking here Or even like we didn't have a talk at lisa, but we focused on fedora server at our table So um personal preference I prefer to do things rather than build infrastructure Um, I did an event last year in lethawania It wasn't funded from fedora's money, but it was for fedora And I literally sent an email out to develop list and I said hey, we're going to this event. These are the topics we want to hit Two people I had never met in the fedora community came forward and said hey, we can do this. This is our bona fides This is why we're qualified to talk to this particular audience We all went to lethawania We had a fantastic booth talking to a bunch of generally closed source developers who were terribly interested in what we had to say Um, but I didn't know who like I I didn't know who to go to in our community to find out who has a background Working with dot net or or working in closed source C sharp shop But instead I asked a set of questions over to vellas like let's use the resources. We already have we have this amazing community If the ambassador generates the event put it out there Um, I know I saw some of your emails and so I don't want to I don't want to anger you by making it sound stupidly easy Because I watched you struggle and I wasn't just watching you struggle with amusement Um, but like I did watch you struggle to try and gather the right kind of information And what that really felt more like to me was we as a community weren't ready to address a college audience And that's something that I would much prefer us say. Hey is mine here. We think that's important We're going to raise an objective around that So one other thing I just wanted to mention so Just say we we have about five minutes left. Yeah, so that's what I was going to mention like Even though I know I brought that up, but we don't have a ticketed item for that I was also one thing I wanted to try to Fit in for this session was a talk about our workflow As mine share committee because I've noticed that we've kind of had I don't know if it's just been like the recent last few months, but I feel like we've kind of stagnated with some of our our response time for tickets and other items on our on our own personal agenda So I was wanting to try to find some room for discussion of ways of our own workflow and like as I was looking at the ticket queue and there's a lot of tickets that that we still have Haven't been responded to or we haven't had a chance to revisit or go back to and it's like I know We're doing this. It reminds me of our fad when we had a lot of like really strong great ideas and we we left the fad with those and we were we know but We weren't able to keep that momentum rolling after the fad as much so I was just trying to think of ways we could try to streamline that and make some of our own work more visible and I don't know I just wanted to kind of Open that topic. I think I just need to pay attention to pagger more I mean, but I don't know just that's individually a single person. Yeah like Oh Our meeting win is good So I think there's a couple of things there now that you've opened the open the proverbial can of worms I'm gonna I'm gonna wiggle a little bit um Number one is we've got to have people show up to meetings And find a meeting time that works So if if you're on mind share and you have not filled this out yet get it filled out Hopefully everybody in the room has do we have any times that work for everyone? Right the second right The second thing I was going to point out is is we need to be better at responding to email To each other on the on the on the mailing list and third we need to be better about reporting What we're doing if it's not monthly at least every other month have a report and say hey This is what mind shares doing we've done none of none of those things Since we consistently have a difficult time with scheduling a meeting and trying to drive our work through meetings And especially since this group is trying to do this Internet international representation of the entire world like this is why I'm trying to figure out like does a Meeting driven body make sense for this group if we have a difficult time finding A single hour or even 30 minutes for us all to be sitting down at the keyboard Does it make sense for us to try to experiment with a different? Like we're using a ticket driven workflow, but can we do that asynchronously? I think now it's back I'm I'm I'm I'm happy to experiment on on asynchronous workflows. I'm concerned that That it's only going to make things worse rather than than make things better. Um, but yeah, let's let's experiment and try