 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa and as we said for a first major conversation on March 18 Nigerians came out in their numbers to vote for the preferred governorship candidates across different political parties in 28 states of the Federation results from the election are now being announced of course by the independent National Electro Commission and Some states are inconclusive results are expected from other states But in many states the dynamics changed after the presidential election with political parties Clinging to their victories after losing to the opposition that during the 25th February 25 25th February Presidential election in Lagos Hill Progressive Congress had lost to the Labor Party and during the presidential poll But things changed during the governorship elections held on Saturday APC's Babajile Somolu Had or has been declared the winner while the candidate of Labor Party Madaba Rhodes Vivo came a distant second The LPs candidate alleged of course the election was rigged and there were many reported cases of violence and voter suppression during the election The results so far declared as of 10 p.m. Last night indicated that the all progressives Congress pulled One the governorship poll in polls in 15 states including Sakkoto Katsina Jigawa Gombe Lego state Quarra state Niger state Yobes state Nassar state cross river state and boy in state Benway state Kaduna state and bonus state the people's and credit party on the other hand had wanted a plateau state Bauchi state or your state a Delta state River state and a quibble states while he knew Nigeria people's party Emerged victorious for the first time In Kanu state the results of election in Nabiya state and in the states where they laid Following the dispute between the Labor Party and the PDP of our results in some local government areas They also some situations that we are monitoring in a dam our state and KB state I'm glad to say joining us this morning is Building show me who is a public affairs analyst as we continue our coverage and of course analysis of the governorship elections You'll be showing me. Thank you very much for your time and good morning Thank you for having me. Okay along the line. We expect to be joined by the Chairman vice chairman south south of the Labor Party Prince Fever Rubin, but building show me in in the sentence or two, please describe your Opinion your analysis your assessment of the Governorship election and the House of Assembly elections held on Saturday, March 18 Yes, the government ship elections Elden Legos were driven by different Sortings Which surfaced? It was partly religion driven just like in the presidential election partly driven by ethnic or some what a primordial considerations no doubt about that the tensions became so heightened that There were An atmosphere some people are latched that they felt in apprehension Because of that they decided to stay at home or not to vote We also have some incidents in some areas in the states, you know, there are reported incidents of Voters intimidation or talk This happened in the states, but by and large and generally In many areas of the ghost the elections went on smoothly I would Want to cite examples of but I agree it was very smooth in a way to smooth it could do better and Some parts of Lagos because I also observed the elections. That's an accredited observer In a gay gate or smooth Suruli there was a problem if you're at no problem, but I was problem in in A go Area problem in a good That was a no, I was told of the problem. No should divide never got that there was no problem in machine and some other area So when you take into account the percentage of the population and the areas affected generally speaking if you're talking about legal states Generally speaking then one would say the election substantially Comply with the electorals, but that does not mean that there were no Incidents or issues in some parts of Lagos Okay, let's look at the fact that some some Governorship candidates are some candidates who are anointed by incumbent Governors didn't win and The power of incumbents is very strong and a determining factor in most elections state elections, especially we have the Governorship elections in the House or assembly elections, but we sing in us for instance in in kind of state the anointed candidate of Governor Ganduja Omar Ganduja didn't win rather the NMPP is in power for the first time in kind of state in In in touch the state Simon la longs anointed candidate Didn't win. Yeah, the people's aquatic party won that election and in in Benway state The case is also different as well the incumbent governor some of the tomb of the g5 fame and Had his candidate defeated and Of course, so we know that the rare and father or the S or Reverend father one What do you think accounts for this this trend in in some of these states that the candidates of the anointed incumbent governors These are strong governors powerful governors, you know, likes of Ganduja or Tom and La Long that he had noted candidates lost out in the governorship election quite a surprise to some Yes, we are beginning to see the impact of new technology They give us introduced to our education purposes by a net made a major difference in the past what politicians used to do particularly sitting of us is to use incident from to preach The gap what they simply do is they look at the number of total register voters if the total number of registered voters is 10,000 and only 6000 voted so they help people by Filling the blank form in coalition with type next officials And then get the number necessary numbers they want as long as it's below the 10,000 but what Bevers has done is that it's not about total number of registered voters It is about the accredited voters people who actually turn off for accreditation and the number of vote cast must not So that narrowed the gap for any manipulation and it minimized it drastically So we are beginning to see the results of the people if people were allowed to vote Counting in the case of being with it. It's totally different case completely the government tried to play on the on the fears and anxiety of the people over the The the heads Problem the hardest problem It successfully did that for some time, but for God the father he did not pay speed to salary He was going them up to six months a lot So We've seen the results manifesting in the fact that the rejected is them candidates and voted for a more popular Catholic father a layer in the case of In the case of Other states and like No, or your states or your state's case is totally different marketing. They seems to be kind of marketing they being rewarded for Is the stance he took in presidential election? So there is a kind of groundswell opinion, you know in within the Political parties particularly the APC and they are caught and they have to let him come back That's what's accounted for that and the opponent has respected that by congratulating me in other cases too We've seen even sitting governors, you know losing Tickets not being able to go to Senate. They used to use Senate as their retirement tools People are beginning to reject that is simply because they be vast made a difference people's votes accounting That is where people are not frightened or 13 or if they're able to cast their votes, it's not beginning to help All right, thank you very much. We have a Prince Fever Rubin on the line Prince Rubin, thank you very much for your time and good morning to you. Good morning Prince Fever Rubin All right, well, we try to get back to Prince Fever Rubin. Let's continue with our conversation But we show me public affairs analysis still with us And of course given us his analysis Behold, we show me interesting analysis from or your state and the role that Governor Makin they played even though he was of the PDP but in probably taking the stance of the G5 with his help don't be with wiki to say that a we're going to support a candidate from the South and And And that is what what we played in his fever. You talked about support from the APC and even a court party Which is a strong party. That's that's quite interesting What about the situation in In a dam our state what are your thoughts on that because you know people felt a benigny Was going to emerge as a governor of a dam our state until we began to see something different And those who are saying hey, hold on a minute wait to line I can ask his results actually won the argument Well, what are thoughts of what's been played out in a dam our state so far where you know sudden results were brought by the the collision officers, but The INEC returning officer said no, we cannot take the results because they are manual We would go for what is in the beavers and that led to what we're seeing right now where The dam our results was you know put on hold For the meantime Sorry, can you hear me, please your line sounds faint? I do not know if you you you can get closer to your phone Yes, I can hear you Okay, okay, it's better. Please go Okay Is the home state of the Presidential candidates In the last election A very very humbling after losing the presidential election So again now lose Adam our state a few of the very popular grassland candidate. She's not the first person Now we have a benign And this one had been a very A very strong group strong grassland politician for me they could opponent in the sense that The governor they've done the elections Remaining only one to come in yesterday, but the result that came in Was fantastic and they were not backed up, you know by the accreditation And even the fact that the number of cancelled Poles In different user number of that, you know are even more than the The margin of victory if they were to accept the Ferrari Poles The iNEC had no choice, but you To actually Agree to cancel it and then, you know the scheduled New polls and that is exactly what would happen. There'll be new elections in areas where they are cancelled So all hope is not lost. We may end up having the first to make up Um Because I would have been more secure to meant to police those areas since the whole Vienna election has come to an end Largely so but that is basically The issue in Adamawa. It's you know, you have a very sitting of now who has a lot to show also For his own performance in office. So he's always going to be highly contested like that Okay, um, I'm glad to say we have Prince Favre Rubin on the line Prince Favre Rubin. Can you hear me, please? Good morning Prince Favre Rubin, please can you hear me? All right, we apologize that we'll just move on From that what I thought some uh, be able to show me of this rejection in initially by the the state Returning officer for iNEC in or the resident electoral commissioner rather of of of the manually collated results And he said that they were going to rely rather on the IRF results because there was a disparity And do you think that is something that probably should have been Toad a line that should have been told by iNEC all this while right from the presidential elections You know to this particular governorship election results Collated at the polling units Um should be different from the one On the higher because The results in the IRF is expected to be the ones from the polling unit If we have a difference in that then there's a problem somewhere Um, what we have to remember is that the IRF is just a few important The real declaration of results happen that the polling unit take into the local government What you need to look at government and then to the state level for final declaration by the returning officer So whatever is if if there's any difference in what is in on the iNEC portal and what people have with them That would be a subject of litigation. Of course, that would be wrong Is not expected to happen that could have been an error on the part of staff uploading Or it shouldn't be different and this is kind of the error that iNEC needs to watch out for When you Yes, people will give them room that there will be a margin of error when you are trying a new technology for the first time But election is too important and too sensitive Um to have them two different results, you know for the same polling unit So I think our next deal has a lot to do I'm also a lot explanations to make In election petitions tribunal to explain why they had those differences Okay, um, uh, the what what about the fact that the The regulations and guidelines to the count of elections that's released by iNEC These are guidelines that are for any elections in Nigeria until they come up with new guidelines See that they should take the result that was uploaded Uh electronically over the one that was presented manually Yes, um The problem we have is the fact that there are two court judgments On this very particular matter on transfer of result or transmission, whichever way we want to call them There is a judgment by the federal high court in Abuja saying that iNEC has a right to prescribe The mode of transfer that is they can choose Uh, uh transmission and then change their mind, you know to manual then there's another judgment which I'm now aware of You know granted by justice lethal of the federal high court iKoi Saying that iNEC in respect to legals iNEC should Transfer the results, um electronically That's for the governorship election. So these are two judgments we need until this case is Sorted out at an affiliate level. It then becomes impossible for anybody to say Whether iNEC is wrong was wrong To have allowed the manual transmission of results All right Because the both federal high courts are courts of equal, you know coordinate jurisdiction So we need an affiliate ruling on on on that very matter. That's my own view, you know to stay within the law Okay, um, I want to read um A section of the uh the regulations and conduct of the Regulations and guidelines for the conduct of elections Uh to you Um, okay, I do not have have I think this is the The exact but it says where the iNEC had copy of collected results for the immediate Lower level of collision does not exist the collision of such I'll use electronically transmitted results or results from the irf portal To continue collision. Um, so so it's it's it's it's clear from what this law says that Um, you can use the results from the irf portal to To collate It's a show me Yes, correct. I've never I've never You were questioning you said the irf portal is just for viewing but um, this is section 93 of guidelines and uh Conditions for the conduct of elections In Nigeria. So so, uh, what do you say about this because it says you can use the area water. Yeah Yes, not not the absence of one big old water. There is no shall Shall So if you have there is not it's not obligatory. They may choose not even to use that as a source of information That's the problem, you know, because the originals raw source material, you know, it's the from ec8 ec Is is ec8? I think ec8c which was signed at the polling unit level ec8a yet That should be the same result on the irf portal in a situation Where you have the what is on from ec8a different from what is on the irf portal There's no way they can use the one on irf portal because it's from ec8e that is authentic That's the source material that has been uploaded So in my view, that is why it you it you it is not mandatory It is not obligatory that iNEC must use the information on the v portal, you know for the the purpose of Determining that and is the job of a returning officer, you know to do that it may choose To to use it or not to use it is not obligatory on this part. That is the point. I'm trying to fix that Okay, uh, mr. Show me actually a section 93 of the regulations and guidelines or the conduct of elections to actually says And that you shall And even section 94 also says that you shall Uh, yeah, shall no section 90 93 Okay, so so he says that Where the iNEC hard copy of collated results from the immediate lower level of the coalition does not exist the coalition officer shall shall use electronically transmitted results or Results from the irf portal to continue the coalition so It's there's no may that shall That you you can use the ira ira portal is available to be used for coalition because it is simply A picture of the from eca the same from eca So i do not know what the fear is I mean, if it's the same thing it's still the same thing. Yeah, so And he says shall which is you know, that's what he says you shall use it That is what i'm saying is no mandatory that they shall use the ira portal. There's still you know Other forms of them verification And a returning officer can choose Not to use the ira portal for its own verification Given the fact that the the source of the The the material uploaded on the ira is actually the form eca if I have that with me. Why then do I need to use another portal? Is not obligatory that that is the only means that they must use that's the point i'm trying to make I don't know whether but what makes it sure me is it is it not the form eca that is on the ira portal Well, you get me an example earlier on where What's on the ira portal is different from from eca So you can have a situation, you know, we are dealing with politicians You can have situations where the form eca could be mutilated deliberately, you know for political ends or for mysterious ends And at the end of the day You then have a different results on the On the ira let me give you a good example the example given by dino melai on the eca team that the information he had between On the form eca, you know stated that there was overvoting and the returning officer who is the chairman of INE Actually said looked at the papers and study once within the notion of a vote initial You know under undervoting so you can have a situation where people can deliberately Or mysteriously wanting to score a point, you know all that those information But the bottom line is whatever Information only from eca is not only given to all the agents of political parties But also given to the to the security officer in charge of that polling area Maybe in this case the the commissioner police So therefore When it comes to litigation so many other issues, you know, we will crop up and they got to be able to determine What is right from what is wrong? It does not mean that either attack or not even be hijacked or hard You know to to change the information on the system. We are using this technology So it will have its own challenges and the cuts will resolve this Within a short possible the shortest possible time of when it is so so when when when there's a discrepancy or disparity, sorry between the results on the As the results she captured Uh on the irf portal that's the one they snapped the resource sheet at the polling unit and then the one that was Uh, the results that have been announced or brought to the coalition center by the local government returning officer For instance, what is that disparity because we've seen results being changed with pen You know, yes Yeah, it's just simple. You just put a zero in front of someone's result and then cancel one numbered and When they added a two in front of sorry that becomes 200 and something and when you have that disparity where they the uh the The results on the irf portal is showing something different. Which one should be taken? well, um The results submitted by the inek returning officer Um, will be the one inek will go with if that results differs With the one with the political parties, of course, the party agents are expected to challenge it And then the returning officer will have to determine What to believe if he chooses to ignore the ones Provided by the political party agents is required in writing to states To state that there was objection and he overruled it Is required to do that But if he chooses to accept the objection, the end that becomes final on that path The only thing anybody can do is after the declaration of results, you know We have seven days in which to make further representation to inek to review the decision taken by the returning officer Otherwise we go to the tribunal. That's the process. So everything depends on the returning officer. Okay, whatever it is There is final. Okay, only you need to let me show me. I think uh section 93 of the guidelines regulations and guidelines to the conduct of elections in 1922 Really resolve the controversy what you said about whether the iraq portal iraq portal can be used to collate results It says it can that one is settled But section 51 of the regulations and guidelines Gives us the answer to to whether and I want to thoughts on this whether the If there's a discrepancy or disparity There's difference between what is is placed on the front of the coalition officer Paper eca versus what is online the moment any party raises an objection There is a dispute mechanism procedure that inek itself would in place and this is contained in section 51 of the Regulations of guidelines for the conduct of election. It says where there is any discrepancy In any result submitted by a presiding officer to the r.a or world coalition officers verified From the result transmitted Or transferred directly to from the polling unit the r.a officer world coalition officer shall I request explanation from the presiding officer Or officers concerned about the circumstances of the discrepancy II Locate the point of disc of discrepancy Resolve the discrepancy using the electronic result And request the presiding officer to endorse the resolution That's what it says and the last one I make a report of the discrepancy So it says you resolve it using the electronic result. It is in black and white. May I show me it is clear You know unambiguous. Don't wouldn't you say sir? You need you really need to go back and read it properly. There are two stages of coalition The first stage is in relation to all elections from national assembly up to state level The the coalition point, you know, it's at the level of the state It is only the presidential election that the coalition point is at the level of Um, is what is done in Naguja Now if there is a dispute the the the electoral rules are very very clear The steps to be taken if you read Electoral act section from section 60 is very clear if anybody has any objection On any voting material, uh, ballot paper or what have we you state that to the presiding officer and the presiding officer Can choose To reject your own Objection, but then the returning officer has the final say It is only the returning officer that has the financing because it's the only one that can declare the results if he's satisfied Of course, it's bound to ask the presiding officer, you know to explain why Is disagreeing, you know with what the party agent, you know observed and he will state his own case If the returning officer agrees with the presiding officer, then that's the end He that's final. He will now make a pronouncement to say that Well, um, he's accepting the result and once he's done that You can't be, you know, go back within seven days to INAG You know for make for that representation or go to the elections petitions tribunal That is all what one can do in relation to that whether it chooses to use a very important like ira You know to Make up his mind to determine the the objection or not Um, it's not The issue if it chooses not to use ira, you know to determine There's nothing we can do because it's not mandatory for him to use the ira, you know, as the only source of the term name or resolving this books Complaints made by thank you. Thank you. That's the point. Yeah, but Mr. Show me a section 60 of the electoral act doesn't talk about the resolve a conflict resolution mechanism it it's if in anything it talks about The procedure of announcing results counting results signing the results sheet and also the penalty for those officials who contribution any section of the electoral act or who intentionally you know Scotland election you go to prison You know, which is what some of these are like Officials even things are done right should they should be cooling their heels in prison Um, because some of them have deliberately changed the results. Mr. Show me some of them have gone I had to to do what the day the electoral act says they shouldn't do but we won't leave that for another day um Section 60 doesn't it doesn't Yeah, but but so show me I'm just about to ask my question You see we don't live in a banana republic where you know because you are At my neck official you can do what you want. You actually can't do what you want even the president Even the annex chairman cannot do what he wants. There are laws You can't just say because I'm the Yeah, so the law is clear. I think what you are referring to is found not in section 60 of the electoral act but in section 51 and section 93 of the regulations and guidelines for the conduct of elections now section 91 makes it clear I'm coming sir. Can I learn can I learn please can I learn Mr. Show me please please I appeal to you section 93 clearly states and I'm going to read it again that the irf can be used as a means for Determining the results of of of an election. Moreover, the irf is not only the only means you have electronically Transferred or transmitted results, which also are there. So this can be used otherwise. Why are they transmitted? Why would the results be electronically transmitted? We can even leave the irf and talk about the results as electronically transmitted And it said but it says in section 93 already before And that where the inek had copy of collated Results from the immediate lower level of collation does not exist the collation officer shall use electronically transmitted results which is what we said, which is the first thing The electoral act talked about when it says inek should transfer the results in a manner they deem necessary The guidelines now say they're going to first of all Trans transmit or transfer the results electronically. They secondly Upload the results on irf portal, which is the second thing. A lot of Nigerians get confused about so section 93 says that The collation officer shall you shall sir use electronically transmitted results or The results from irf Portal to continue collation. So they can they can be used for collision. That is not in doubt that is sorted out But section 51 sir is clear. It says that where there is a discrepancy I'm going really already for you sir the first time. I'll just take it again if for emphasis sake It says where there is any any discrepancy In a result submitted by a presiding officer to the ra or world collation officer as verified from the result transmitted Or transferred directly from the polling unit. It says the collation officer shall I request explanations from the presiding officers concerned about the Circumstances of the discrepancy. I I sir Look at the point of discrepancy resolve this discrepancy using the electronic results And request the presiding officer to endorse the resolution So it's clear You use the electronic results Yes, yes, yes, please What seems very clear to me is you Still do not either A path communicator or I'm not, you know, making the point clear The issue in contention is this In my view Is I rev portal the only means Mandated by law To resolve This but i'm refreshing it in my own words. Maybe because it's more convenient for me to do that In my view and what i'm saying is it is not the only one it is not Mandatory in law that that is the only instrument to be used to resolve this but And when you go by the two sections you read He's saying it can No, sir. No, no, no, sir. No, sir. Mr. Show me, please That is not what he says. I have a copy. I don't know if you have a copy. I have a copy of both laws He doesn't say it can Mr. Show me he says Shall You need to read it again. If there's a conditioner. It's a conditional No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. Mr. Show me. No, no No, please. Please. Let's tell misinform our public. It doesn't say if The first thing you said no, sir. It doesn't say if no. No. I didn't read if maybe you are you are deliberately Not hearing what i'm saying. It says where? Where there is any discrepancy the collation of sir. Shall but you've consistently said it doesn't say shall please It says shall I think we should we owe a duty to nigerians at least to to read the law correctly And that is what i'm attempting to do to read the law correctly You also said the ira potash can never cannot be used for collation results and i read it to you out there They said you shall you can use it Sir, sir, please at the end of this program You need to go back and lead saying to what you read and i'm sure the viewers had you when you said If There is a show me it's here. I said where where no, I said where there is I'm okay if I said if i'm correcting myself Where there is any discrepancy anywhere They preside the collation officer shall I I Look at the point of discrepancy resolve the discrepancy using electronic results I said where not if And what difference does it make but I said where Mr. Show me thank you. Yes. Yes. Yes. If you're correct me Look if you're correcting yourself now I have commented on what you said earlier on if you are now saying something else Then that's a different thing completely. So are you agreeing that are you agreeing that if there's where there's a discrepancy? The the electronic results will be used. Are you agreeing to that? I'm saying to you that is not obligatory that our mandate, sir. It is obligatory and mandatory according to law It's here Are you gonna listen to me? Yes. I'm listening to you, sir. Yeah, it shouldn't be a you don't have to agree with my viewpoints Even in a part of law you have two Opinions or several opinions before it is only a judgment that would determine it You can disagree. You can choose to disagree with my own Interpretation on my own leading What seems to be very clear to me is when you read from section 60 up to 65 You will come to a conclusion that if there is a dispute the presiding officer will resolve the matter and if If the the returning officer has the finality on accepting a result or not accepting Is this section 60 section 61 section 62 63 Since first of all, I've read it. It's not there. What you're saying isn't known to law. I'm sorry. Mr. Show me On how to resolve the issue that it's not the presiding officer It's on how to resolve issues that he would have been done Be on the show me. Thank you for your time. I've always always enjoyed talking to you, sir And definitely we engage again. It's lovely to have your perspective and your point of view. Thank you so much, sir All right, we have a duty to to inform the public and to tell them what the law says and I mean if if it's not in the law, then please feel free to Correct me and correct us right here plus CBA Africa But it's it's their black and white section 51 of the guidelines and regulations for the conduct of elections in Nigeria and section 93 As well. My name is Kofi Bartels. We return tomorrow with more on the breakfast and plus CBA Africa. Good morning