 This program is brought to you by Cable Franchise Vs and generous donations from viewers like you So I've seen the presence of a quorum I'm calling to order this meeting of the Amherst school committee at 6 31 p.m. And we will start with a roll call attendance and And actually before we start I would just say for Hala had just mentioned that Sasha is is here helping us Host this meeting and but she can't hear us. So I Context her if anything comes up or we can use the chat to to contact her if we need to It's so a roll call and mr. Demling Demling present Miss Lord Lord present Mr. Harrington Harrington present miss Spitzer Spitzer present and McDonald present And On our agenda it says we're going to approve minutes from June 16th, but they weren't included in our packet So the folks are okay. We'll move on and we do have Public comment this evening So I'll play the voice recordings first Port River in the Ames program I would like to advocate for distance learning to be the default plan for the upcoming school year with the potential for in-person Add-ons our buildings and school grounds are still valuable resources Even when learning virtually and we should consider how to use them to supplement virtual learning I would only feel comfortable about a return to the buildings if they remained mostly empty with ample safety precautions in place We need to consider that even if our local covid numbers look good This is still a national emergency and until the country is able to contain the virus We should assume our district is just as vulnerable as anywhere else The sooner we know a full reopening is off the table the sooner we can put effort into Resources into strengthening our distance plans. Thank you I'm an Amherst resident and a pair educator of 22 years in the Amherst public schools I'd like my remarks to be included in the public comments portion of the july 23rd meeting of the Amherst school committee As the past president of a pea I spent countless hours addressing Growing concerns from educators about the poor air quality in our schools Decades of underfunding of public education and deferred maintenance of our buildings has resulted in ventilation systems that are inadequate under the best of circumstances Any decisions on reopening our school to in-person learning should not happen until the school committee can assure the educational community Of our town that there has been a complete environmental health and safety assessment of our buildings And all aspects of the heating cooling and ventilation systems are fully functioning Thank you I left a comment earlier but got cut off and I've modified my comments to hopefully Reach within the time. So please use this comment. This is from ELL teachers and amherst myself Lanca also your castillo mary menzel Red shahadi and navas of ours miss We're writing to reiterate our concerns about the reopening plan presented by the district It should be noted that the district did not speak input nor did it include ELL teachers in the decision making process We are witnessing a moment in history where we are calling for change and a dismantling of rules and laws that favor certain populations In the spirit of fairness and equity, we ask that you seriously consider our concerns as they impact some of our multiple level students Are too often decisions impacting ELLs are made without ELL family input We advocate for the families of our students and we ask that you join us in considering what is best for them with our input Many ELL families dissuaded by language barriers have instead opted to share with us directly They're reluctant to send their children back to school in september Therefore we need to update information that accurately reflects their current Decision in addition many families aren't aware of the conversation being held right now about their children And the decisions that could be made We find it important to highlight the unique needs of the ELL program Which are different from the special ed programs or any other specialized programs The ELL program is made up of students with individual language and unique academic needs A room of students of different ages language levels and academic needs will be a detriment for our student's education And will face undue burdens on the ELL teacher and stress her differentiation skills beyond the level of good practice Small group learning remains the best teaching method for our students And is achievable through remote learning If the phase one of the reopening plan wants to focus on instruction for beginner ELLs and students in k1 There are certain things that we feel that we need in order to serve our students And at the same time keep the safety of everyone's priority And we've outlined these in the letter which we will submit to the school committee We are aware of the complexities that we face in creating A scenario that will balance our students learning needs with their safety and the safety of our staff These are difficult times that require us to be creative and thoughtful in our thinking While also making honest about the dire limitations We are committed to providing the best teaching environment possible and view of these limitations and to working together to achieve these goals Thank you Can you all see the um Can you see it? Okay. Thank you This is the written version of one of the voice comments that we received So I will I will scan more quickly to get to the details that were not in the voice message And that's the it that's the all of the public comment that we've received today um, and I will note for um The public watching um online, um We there were a couple other comments that were clearly related Exclusively to the high school schedule and plan where the middle school had a schedule and plan And so those will be shared at our next meeting of the regional school committee This is as a reminder the amer school committee, which is the amer school district of three elementary schools Okay, um It's going to pull up our agenda Um, so we uh tonight we have one agenda item. We are uh revisiting our fall 2020 priorities and um planning framework um the staff section And then oh mr. Devin Uh, yes, I'd like to state for the record that my wife is an employee of the amer school district However, I feel that I can perform my official duties objectively and fairly on this item And so I have filed the necessary 23b disclosure of appearance of conflict of interest form with the amer's town clerk as required by mass general law chapter 268a power graph 23b section 3 and I will be participating in this item Thank you. Thank you. So, uh, as I as I mentioned we have one, um agenda item tonight to revisit our conversation on the Um, the staff section of our framework for planning Um, we voted on both sections of this on on monday The the main part portions of the document passed our vote um on monday july 20th and um The support for staff section did not pass um And before we dive into this conversation, I just want to acknowledge I think um We all know we hear it and we're reading it in our and in the public comment And we're hearing it from our community members, and I'm sure you all have also read received individual emails And so I just want to recognize um That all of us um, so we we talked about the district and we talked about our administrators and our teachers and the immense volume of work and time and and sweat that they're putting into Coming up with creative solutions Um to this intractable problem that we are facing Um, and I just want to acknowledge The work that all of us on the committee are doing um in a time of Also deep personal stress and anxiety. Um, this isn't easy and we're we're layering on the weight of the entire community On our shoulders when we're trying to figure out our pathway forward for our own families and our own selves Um, which is anxiety producing enough. So I just want to acknowledge that We've been putting this is a third time. We've seen each other this week. Um And we've spent many many more hours on it this week than I think we ever imagined we'd spend in you know In a six month period. Um, so I just want to You know express my gratitude also personal gratitude for um the hard work The honesty and candidness that we've been having these conversations and the thoughtfulness that all of us have been putting Into these these really really gut-wrenching and difficult Conversations and decisions. So I I just want to start there Um of sort of deep appreciation. Um, these are hard conversations. Um, but I I'm grateful that This group is working so well together to have these conversations. So thank you um, so uh with that our packet Does have um the updated document mr. Harrington Yeah, so um as a as a member of ARP staff today. I spoke with the uh lawyer of the day at the state ethics commission And so I feel like right now is the appropriate time for me to Reuse myself in the conversation Okay, and turn off Okay, and I will uh chat you when um when you may come back. Thank you mr. Harrington. Um, so The uh the agenda packet includes the updates that uh that we had talked about and discussed at the the meeting the joint meeting that we had on monday um I did my best to trans-subscribe the scribbles of notes that I took so um Open also and and we I shared this also with the other two committees that had voted um and approved this one um, so um, I Also open to edits if I didn't happen to capture the discussion that we had on monday. Um, so That is the intent it was to capture the discussion that we had had on monday and that had agreed. Um at that point So I will open it to conversation or motions miss spitzer So this is probably been one of the longest weeks of I don't want to be hyperbolic, but I'm gonna I honestly think it's been one of the longest weeks of my life. Um It's hard to believe it was just on monday. Um That I argued that we should do more to accommodate the preferences of our staff I asked that we acknowledge that the needs of the staff and the preferences of the staff may lead to a mismatch between the number of teachers And the number of students who would like to be in this build in the buildings And I argue that this is still a possible outcome regardless of what language we put in this document Staff members may make the decision to leave employment of the district and I feared the more that this would be one of the worst case scenarios Because we wouldn't have the staff for in-person or remote learning I want to clarify because a lot of people have reached out and I think View my statements as supporting, you know, go moving to a hundred percent remote option and you know And I'm not arguing for that now. Um, and I don't think I was arguing for that on monday although I understand that people have Drawed conclusions from my statements. Um at the same time, I do believe we need to be prepared to implement a fully remote option Sorry, it's my son. Um, even if we can all reach agreement today on the language that would allow us to offer an in-person option in september None of us knows what's going to happen And there is a very strong likelihood that we will experience a covid surge in our area I I don't know what's going to happen. I don't think any of us do But we cannot ignore this probability. So while I understand the frustration That I heard from others that we have not provided guidance as quickly as people would like I think even if we at the end of this meeting still have a strong preference for in-person learning We need to be working on contingency plans now For a remote only option and I know this is happening I don't doubt that the administrators we've heard from yesterday are doing this But I I don't think it's been communicated to the public and and from what I'm hearing from the teachers I don't think they're feeling Um, like it's it's happening as much as it should Um, I can't ignore the public comment from teachers and staff who are clearly saying they have concerns about next year Having concerns about next year is the most appropriate response to the world we live in right now And as a member of this committee, I have been trying to think about those who are most vulnerable Whether it's for medical reasons for financial reasons for developmental reasons I could go on there are many other factors that I haven't mentioned This is an impossible task and there is no right to do way to do this And I think that everybody on this committee can appreciate that Other thing I feel uncomfortable about is the fact that my vote on the emmer school committee could dictate whether Pelham goes remote only and I haven't been elected by anybody from Pelham I'm not a member of the Pelham elementary school committee I understand why separate policies could be burdensome I'm especially under these circumstances, but I I want to recognize that is Is something I'm deeply uncomfortable with Um, then and today I'm looking for collaboration and suggestions on how we could make this document Um Support our staff in a very meaningful way one that I've had considered Is strengthening the language around staff members who may not have medical condition themselves But who live with someone who does Now I recognize that there are legal implications of what I'm about to recommend and I Have because the chair is the only person who can Engage with our council. I I haven't been able to do that prior to this, but I would be open to doing so um I suggest that if our council and the hr department find that this would be possible that we revise the first two bullets Um, I would suggest that we write the district will provide reasonable accommodations for staff who have underlying medical condition Or live in a household with a person who has underlying medical conditions that make them more vulnerable to the impacts of COVID-19 I would suggest changing the second bullet to the district will seek to accommodate staff Who for any reason express a preference for full or mostly remote remote work to the extent that such positions are needed and available And based on the instructional model and student preferences I realize that this change could still lead us to reduce in person time for some students For this reason, I think we need to continue to engage with teachers now I'm feeling uneasy about the fact that we delayed the survey To address their concerns and do what we need to improve our plans in response At the same time, we need to make sure that we meet the needs of our students who are most most at risk and to me This includes our youngest as well This is why I'm not asking for fully remote today. I could see that happening in the future um, if conditions change To do this, we may need to create a survey of parents that ask parents how strong their preference is for in-person education For example, you know, I'm going to speak for myself. I have a strong preference for in-person education for my son But due to my ability to work remote, I can make distance learning work for my oldest child I think we need to collect this data because it would allow our district to better handle this potential mismatch that's going to probably It's not 100 likely, but there's a high enough probability that I think we need to plan for this I recognize that this is asking a lot from our staff and our staff is already burden But I'm trying to think as creatively as I can in ways to move forward I think we were presented with somewhat of a false dichotomy on on tuesday night between either, you know Going forward with the plans that we had or moving to a fully remote option I'm proud of our district and our community for the work we have done so far We have made sure that we are continuing to feed our children during this pandemic working with our parents groups We've provided wi-fi hotspots and Chromebooks to families who otherwise do not have access We've showed up to anti-racist professional development and protests We've shown that when we work together we can help to make sure that we support those in our community Who are more vulnerable and I want us to continue to challenge ourselves to do this Even as we're all facing the exhaustion And I'm including staff And parents, you know the entire community. I read a new york times article today and This school's chief enrichment of virginia Was quoted and he likened the entire conundrum that we're facing to playing a game of 3d chess while standing on one leg in the middle of a hurricane That's how I'm feeling so Those are my suggestions. Thank you very much. Sorry. That was a little long-winded, but I had to get that out Thank you. Mr. Demling Yes, thank you. And I'll be long-winded as well. So I don't feel bad about it um So I I appreciate everything that miss spitzer said and how she's advanced this conversation um, just a couple of detailed points on some um, some things she mentioned, um before I lose my train of thought in terms of Um, making it vital that the district prepare for fully remote learning So this is already in the framework documents that our three committees have passed Um in two places one is the district will provide plans for all grades to transition to fully distance learning at the public health situation necessitates school closure or other disruptions to in-person learning And then we also elevated another point to the fourth overall goal Remain flexible and adjust plans as needed according to changing conditions. So I feel like from the school committee point of view That's as strong as we can make it. Um Is the district actually implementing that in a responsible way and communicating that that's a different matter And if we have concerns about that, we should absolutely bring that up in upper meeting with superintendent um So this is my first, um opportunity to weigh in in a public meeting on this So I'd like to read a statement about why I'm in favor of the staff and guidance as presented Um without without the proposed changes The Amherst public schools are required by law to provide access to a free and appropriate education to all students in our district That's the primary mandate of our organization as a public service provider to meet the educational needs of students To fulfill this requirement, we naturally have to identify what an appropriate education is This of course is a never-ending discussion as we work to continuously improve our service offering in response to changing conditions And it forms the bulk of our committee's work Almost everything we do falls under this one primary mandate and appropriate education Covid of course has been an enormous change of conditions to respond to which is why we've been meeting so frequently for so long And earlier this week our three committees each unanimously voted to support the fall 2020 framework for planning document that provides guidance to the superintendent on specifically what an appropriate education looks like to our committees under current local covid conditions Including maximizing in-person learning time prioritizing students unable to effectively access remote learning And phasing in to all elementary students on site four to five days a week and secondary students at least two days a week In order for us to then deliver on this this framework of what our committees have now identified as an appropriate education under current conditions We are obligated to staff it Because if we can't staff it then we can't reliably offer what we just identified is needed to meet our primary obligation And in staffing this model the first goal in the framework the first guidance for implementing this model is protect staff and student safety And so we're committed to responding to local conditions as advised by the AMA Dr Fauci the just released harvard global health institute guidance and many other sources We're phasing in starting with 10 of all students on site And we must continue to do our absolute best to maximize the safety of working conditions We have to continue to push back repeatedly and hard against any state guidance that asks us to compromise on safety Like we have we were the first district in the commonwealth to publicly commit to six foot distancing We have to relentlessly advocate both in our town and statewide to secure the capital and operational funds needed to maximize safety Like we have it's been no small effort, but our committee has been instrumental in getting over 160 other school committees in the state to demand Full funding for all COVID expenses We have to continue to support our town manager to ensure the safest university return possible On improving but still very active conversation And we have to continue to meet week after week and listen to staff Parents the public and each other to continuously improve our educational offering But we cannot guarantee Staff accommodations that by design would prevent us from delivering what we've identified as the free and appropriate education for all students And so we should provide reasonable accommodations for staff who have underlying medical conditions And further we should seek to accommodate staff who for any reason Prefer to work remotely including concerns about household members who may be vulnerable But we cannot offer a guarantee to all to work remotely when we know that positions are needed on site For the instructional model that we've identified as appropriate Under current local COVID conditions and I want to add this phrase seek to accommodate It's not an empty phrase here. It's a powerful directive Above and beyond what's required by employment law It's a value statement that our committees expect the district to do just that actively seek to accommodate staff Who for any reason prefer to work remotely And we're trusting in human resources to evaluate each staff member's situation On a case by case basis and do all that they can to be sensitive to each of our employees unique situations And our committee should have every expectation that this will be the case After all this there's no question But the superintendent and the rest of our admin team have heard us loud and clear That staff safety is a top priority and I have every confidence that more than any particular wording in a guidance document from us We can put our trust in our school's leadership to uphold the true spirit of this guidance And when making important individual staff decisions, that's what matters most to me So I support the staff and guidance as presented and I'm ready to vote in favor of it tonight Thank you Miss lord, would you do you have any comments you would like to add? I will not be as long And I hear both miss spitzer and mr. Demling's comments and incorporate them My biggest issue I think was that our staff doesn't feel comfortable or a great majority of them do right now So what are we doing to sit at the table? I know one school during their Staff meeting they came up with over a hundred different questions and concerns And so I don't want to just barrel forward and say you have to show up because this is the commitment you made I want to say okay. This doesn't feel good What can we how do we work together to do it because there are some in the gray area that just need to be heard Um, I know there's not a lot of time everybody is working at max capacity and beyond that but I can't in good faith make a choice against Without listening and sitting down at the table and and doing some due diligence Thank you I don't know if that's helpful, but that's what I have to say for well. I think what um, I I was I'd like to just sort of address um some things that I I feel like are misconceptions and and I think that there's A little bit in Just in within public comment and as well it's from both community members as well as staff and We're not at the point that we have that we're defining specific plans and neither is that The role of our committee our committee is putting together Principles that we want to see Our district administration do when they are Preparing concrete plans and the plans that we saw on tuesday They are even though they look more Concrete than what's on these documents that we voted on monday the the main framework About the education there's still a lot of detail that it has to be done and has to be has to be worked out and I don't believe they're You know sort of echoing something that mr. Demling said Those can't be done without engaging with staff to define how they're going to implement the plan that that is Been drafted and it's a draft um This isn't this isn't a playbook for exactly how everything's going to be done. Um, that's still to come and I think um And I would actually echo very much What mr. Demling said way better than how I can say it frankly um that That clause of seeking to accommodate staff who for any reason we added that in that is not That is us saying We don't want to we don't want to see the district just do what they are legally required to do by employment law in which Actually is even it more expanded and in the pandemic. There are many more accommodations that are included now in employment law with with regard to Our staff accommodations with regard to this pandemic Um, and those continue into this school year. So those aren't off the table We've gone beyond that in saying that we want them to also seek seek as much as they can to accommodate staff who for whatever reason are um would prefer to not work in the building Also, I you know the other misconception is this this um phrase that I hear a lot Both in emails and public comment and conversations with people that were pushing for in-person education and in-person learning and I would say One of the things that that that I think Keeps getting forgotten is that we're not pushing for people to be in buildings if the If the local public health guidance and metrics suggests that that's not a wise decision If that were the case, we would not be forcing anybody into the building even if they wanted to be in the building We would not be forcing people to go into schools if the health metrics at that time are suggesting otherwise And so I think that's always a first step and and it's just sort of restating something that mr. Deming said that's our first our number one goal in our overall goal Is to protect staff and student safety and then in in our other The other main document we've said that that's the first thing that we're going to do before any decision about how we're educating students Is made is we are going to be looking at the science and the public health data Before we do anything and that's going to be what's guiding us not what I want for my child or anybody else in the community Wants if they whether they want to be in person or not We're going to first be looking at the science and the data and the other the other sort of misconception that we're pushing for Everybody to be in the school in in just a few weeks in september And I think when we added between the first time we looked at our document And the second time that we looked at their document one a huge huge change was that we added that phased in approach We asked for and then we saw on tuesday that phased in approach Um We're going to have at most 20 I think or 30 of the students in the building that also means that that's not all staff are in the buildings At the beginning of the school year and that phased approach is going to be a cautious and and public health data Driven decision process about when how quickly we go into phase two or phase three or whether we move back You know if we've moved up to phase two and we need to go back to phase one or even close the schools That's always going to be at the forefront of the school year So even though yes the the idea sort of maps a way of A pathway to getting all students In the school at least some of the time and and the staffing in order to support that We've mapped a way that is that is very cautious and very Data-driven so that we're not asking More risk than what our public health officials would suggest we need to be doing So I I think those for me are really important because in this in this situation where there's so much uncertainty and so much anxiety And so much fear of the unknown What we've put together is not a plan that's Assuming the best case scenario and let's go We're we're put we put together a plan that says what has to be true For us to be able to have students and staff in our school buildings and we've outlined as mr. Demling Much more eloquently articulated A safety plan That goes beyond what desi has has suggested we need to do We've um, we've also articulated a plan that has this phased in approach so that we're learning and adapting as we go And not just blindly moving forward And all of this help the protocols that we've been out frankly ahead in talking about these before we've even gotten the guidance We just got the guidance on facilities operation and transportation and yet we've been talking about that and I think We've looked at the risks and Crafted a plan That addresses so many so many of those question marks And no it's not going to address all of the question marks on all of the risk But I what makes me comfortable with the plan as we've outlined it including the support for staff Is that we're first and foremost going to be looking at those public health data metrics? We're not going to be asking anybody to do something that isn't warranted and supported by the public health data If we were going if we were looking if today we're august 31st and it was we're looking at whether students are going into school next week We'd be looking at the health metrics and it looks like yes, that seems like a safe option if it wasn't that we wouldn't be having this conversation um so I too um um In support of what our original document um, I I do Feel very comfortable with we've gone beyond um and expressed our sincere um and and passionate desire and need and requirement that our district works to understand staff preferences regardless of personal health conditions And and seeks to accommodate them as much as possible And ultimately we're public school and we are required to provide that free and appropriate public education for our students and if if we If we are not putting our students first and thinking of our students first and their educational needs Then we're not fulfilling our mission as a public school district I saw your hand mist misfit sir so I'm feeling frustrated because I I came in With what I believe is some compromise language Peter nor you have responded to that but I guess what I want to confirm that you are Because here's the thing there are four of us here if If the two of you vote in favor of it and hall and I don't vote for it. We're in the same position as we were before and I'm I don't feel good about that I I also you know the reason the language I proposed was you were talking about health and public health There is good guidance that covid is Transmitted more among families like you're more likely to get it if a family member gets it then I'm not an epidemiologist, but I've been trying to read a lot and If I am a teacher And somebody in my household not myself is recovering from cancer if somebody in my house is Immunocompromised for whatever reason that it is We say we will seek to accommodate But we don't actually But what would we do in the event that that meant that one of our students couldn't Get their you know the them in-person education that I would love for them to have but you're asking I think you're asking too much of our teachers who might be in this situation and I I just It's not based on this is not you know based on Just generalized anxiety about the pandemic there is good evidence that if you have certain conditions, you're at increased risk Diabetes, you know These are things that are recognized by the CDC. I'm not saying we put that language in here I think there are good reasons not to but I would just like to see us commit There we're not going to ask a teacher to have to like rent in I mean this was happening during the pandemic doctors were renting RVs so that they weren't going to be worried about bringing COVID home to their loved ones Um, it just it feels like too much. I mean if you sign up to be a doctor, that's one thing But if you sign up to be a teacher, I I don't know It just really doesn't sit well with me And if we can do something to to say affirmatively that we won't put anybody in that position I feel more comfortable voting for this document Mr. Demi So maybe while I'm talking you can Write up the actual language so that we can present it so that um, we can hone in on a bit more But I will tell you why I don't feel like I can vote for it But I would like to see the details so we can you know not talk with so we could speak less abstractly so to break it out to Anyone in your household that has medical accommodations that is so far beyond employment law But we put our district in an impossible situation of how to identify that whereas Seek to accommodate is telling Doreen Cunningham When she evaluate who's our assistant superintendent diversity and human resources It's going to be working with your human resources staff to evaluate this but I'm so sure she's watched these discussions Needs to hear the committee loud and clear that you need to do everything you can While fulfilling the obligations that our district has to our students to seek to accommodate that So I don't expect Doreen or anyone in HR to say ha ha. I can use seek to accommodate to get out of accommodating I think they're going to do that and I I will you know offer a different point of view to the the the um, the false equivalency There isn't a false equivalency here um If we can't staff for example the ilc program Then within a week or two because again, this is the other problem We have right now the time urgency is really working against us If then then the director of special ed is going to have to start calling parents And telling them telling their their students their special needs students who have been in our district Many of them since kindergarten are going to get bused out of district To some place to be determined and we'll do the best we can because for those students We know it doesn't matter how long you design or invest in and train in remote We know that for some students. We absolutely cannot provide faith that that legal requirement that our organization is bound by Free inappropriate public education And it's it's very real and we can debate how many students there are and we hope for the best that the staff works out But we can't guarantee that and we and we can't have it both ways. I I wish that we didn't have this Uh this this problem, but we do and it's a very hard decision but we but unless we are willing to to do what I just described and that that's just one of the Consequences that I don't think our superintendent was trying to threaten us with When when when he identified And when he says that, you know, those out of district placements are very expensive And that will very likely have to go back to the town of Amherst and and if this has a ripple effect on the agreement of the region back to Pelham leverant shoots very to ask for additional funds and include an additional budget freeze Those are just some of the consequences if we if if we make this guarantee Of of medical conditions again, we should look at the at your language and we're not lawyers But what we do know definitively But there's no employment law that covers medical conditions with household members We would be breaking far and away new ground and have the most accommodating Set of supports that I've seen in any plan certainly in this certainly in the state um, so I I'm not unsympathetic to to the to the very real health conditions and neither will Doreen Or whoever in our administration is evaluating and making these calls when they seek to accommodate our staff But but it's it's it's a zero-sum game where you if you tip the scale like that You are you are you are saying you can't guarantee the legally required FAPE For our most vulnerable students and and that has dire and real consequences I I think I would also to to build on that for from my thought process is also this idea Of of the equity amongst the staff because not all jobs Are able to be Conducted remotely and so when you when you talk about You mentioned miss spitzer that you thought that it was a false dichotomy that if we if we offer this If we offer staff choice, then we have to go a hundred percent distance And it does seem extreme, but if you follow it through to this this sense of It it this I mean this literally just happened in fairfax county and loudon county and montgomery county in the dc area that By looking at staff choice. They realize they do not have the ability to even have any in-person learning Even with with the um the proportion of staff that would like to be in person And that's where it tips the scales you have custodial staff there's there's there's Very little need for custodial staff if you're if you're doing 100 percent Distance learning and to his point about offering staff choice What is the what is a reasonable accommodation for somebody who works in in? Who who is a school nurse if the school nurse doesn't want to work in in person? We also have the situation And and I know we're we're not talking we're we're talking about sort of the The gut wrenching decisions that individuals are going to be making and families are going to be making but we we are a public body that is Fiscally we're we're charged with the fiscal operation of our of our school system And one of the other things that falls apart when we when if we're if we're offering 100 percent choice and then Have to go to 100 percent distance learning is the the transportation We've we have a contract. We have to provide transportation in in in the region so we will lose the transportation reimbursement and and and we have Bus drivers, right? So there's there's a whole it feels it at first glance is a false dichotomy But it falls apart as as mr. Deming was Alluding to as soon as you as soon as you tip that balance and you and you can't match the student their Staff desires with student needs And there's a real real budget implication on that as well I will share the language I Sorry, I did not request Is that okay? Oh, I didn't hear your question. Sorry. Sorry. I I did not ask to be recognized. So Oh, yes. Yeah, let's go ahead. I also this is not language that is saying First of all reasonable accommodation from my reading of some of the documents you've shared does not necessarily mean Working remote 100 of the time Um That is and that's not what the language here says and I again, I do have a lot of confidence in Doreen's abilities To to work with people and from everything I hear all of this is going to be have to be made on an individual case by case basis um, so these two bullets are my proposed revisions I I would like to say, you know, I It's it's really, you know, I I think what I'm not right now saying full choice because of the reasons I of wanting to Like peter mentioned, you know protect Our obligations to meet the needs of students Especially those who are most vulnerable with special needs Those who are younger those who are homeless the the the the groups we are phasing in first I'm concerned that if we We could end up in the situation that you guys are describing Regardless of whether or not we seek people's preferences Nobody is an indentured servant, you know, they're going to have the ability to decide not to come to school that we can't We you know, they may decide to to lead the district and I think that would be really terrible. Um, it Anyway, so I'm I'll put the language up here. Um Mr. Deming Yeah, just brief question. So um And then we're not supposed to ask one on one question. So I'll just throw it out there. I'm wondering what what the difference is I'm wondering what the preference difference is between In this first bullet reasonable accommodations versus what's already in the document Which is seek to accommodate the reason I asked that is because This is a non-binding guidance document that describes the school committee's intention To what how we want the district to operate and so in a practical purpose This this is really direction to hr in terms of what they do and and I'm not seeing any practical difference between our very clear Direction from the school committees to human resources in the district to seek to accommodate versus reasonable accommodations So I guess I just I don't understand how that's stronger my Thought was that It's as will instead of will seek and mr. Deming so I mean if we Maybe there's a software engineer me if if if we were writing a computer program I would get really really uh picky about these word choices um I don't think For for what this document is Again, which is is a non-binding but but we expect to be followed um expression of our of our values For the district's human resources to take into account when they are evaluating individual situations um I don't I I can't imagine maybe maybe I'm wrong. I can't imagine uh a member of our district working in hr you know, sincerely valuing our teachers and uh Reading will seek to accommodate and thinking that that's weak or any weaker than reasonable accommodations. Um I Again this it it comes back to What what what are we? What are we trying to express? Um So I just you know, I um And and and I wouldn't I wouldn't want to You know, I am really concerned about the delay like It's hard to say publicly, but we are already really late And in other five days For this all this uncertainty to hang out Um, it's just not not good and then and then you know, the possible discussion that happens and pretty soon we we we We just have to call it full remote and and start sending people away um Kids I mean, um So I guess, you know, I just in terms of like what we're trying to do which is strengthen the consideration of our district Um, but not bind them because again like we have to staff these programs like that's That is the that is the reality like fate has not been waived in covid it was it was uh when we first went To uh quarantine and schools were closed in march You know schools were allowed to have everybody remote But that's because of the prevailing covid conditions and and what was which which is which is not what it is at the moment so um you know I I I I I feel similar in the the the feeling that you that that is being expressed with this proposed change But I don't see how it how it strengthens um What what the actual actions would be? Sorry if that was Sorry, and I it's it's a really good and I We'll spend hours talking about the meaning of two different words. Um, but I do actually think um, I actually think that the you're the proposed wording actually weakens what we might be doing for staff with household members and and The reason why I say that is because the the second bullet Sites specifically the preference for full or mostly remote work As that they're seeking to accommodate as much, you know To the extent possible The the the desire for full or mostly remote work. It's a very specific and in fact that is Predominantly the kinds of accommodations that we're hearing from staff um The you know the emails the public comment Are are really asking for remote remote learning opportunities The first bullet to your point miss spitzer reasonable accommodations does not necessarily mean remote work I'm not sure that's going to be considered A positive Change from some from the many teachers that are asking for us to provide 100 distance learning Or enable them to Not have to come into the school buildings because as you Rightfully point it out miss spitzer That a reasonable accommodation does not necessarily mean distance. It could mean Okay, you're only going to be working with you are going to be working in this isolation and this is this is your your new job Um, and that's not what staff is asking. So I actually think that that keeping it in the second bullet is actually stronger Guidance in saying that we're actually going to seek to accommodate your desire to work Offsite and not in the school buildings Miss spitzer So this is non-binding and only guidance Then why are folks bringing? To telling me that if we Change this language We will then need to move to a fully remote option Because what I I just don't think you can have it both ways I don't think you can say that if the Amherst district fails to come to agreement on this language Then we are in a situation where it's all fully remote and I have Not just me but but the those of us who feel uncomfortable with this language have Essentially, you know Forced the district into a situation that they find untenable and it's going to have fiscal consequences and and do all of these really True things that I I don't want to see so this is I just I'm trying to under It just feels like I I'm I'm trying to come here with some Really, you know I think valid concerns and I'm I'm feeling like I'm not being heard and and Not only that but at the same time being blamed for a situation that I If it really isn't non-binding then I don't understand then why why everything is getting pinned on on this language change Mr. Demling So again, I'm trying not to have one one comments. Um I don't want anyone to be blamed You know, it is what it is. Like this is the process. It's hard. It is what it is. Um Obviously the sooner we can raise these concerns the better. Um It's unfortunate that we're having this much of a Of a major pushback right at the very end Um, but it it it is it is what it is um I So if if we tell the district that that you have to accommodate staff parents Then Then then the district cannot reliably staff On-site learning In any kind of equitable manner. I'll just assume that we all agree on that unless you want to go through the superintendent some Bullets, um That if that if we can't guarantee the staffing Then we can't do on-site learning in an equitable manner. Therefore, it has to be all remote. Um I don't think that's I guess I'll stop there. It's uh I'm sorry. I'm much I'm much productive of that I think the the the question is in my mind If we're saying that it's non binding That it's guidance and very strong guidance I would add um Then I'm feeling uncomfortable upsetting and delaying it sort of the entire um decision framework And and steps that still need to happen from a timing perspective that are going to have um real repercussions um in In the district's planning and ability to plan and and start school on time It's going to have real repercussions for families who are Really anxious to know what what's going to be happening in the fall And I'm not sure I'm willing to do that for something that is a non binding document and so That's actually a bigger reason why I support our original learning because then we We haven't lost any time if we were able to support that original document tonight. Um, we've we've had Deeper conversations and I and I think it's important. So I'm not like like mr. Demling this We're five individuals and in this conversation four but um Who bring different perspectives and that's absolutely Expected for us to have different opinions. That's not it's not about blaming somebody for having a different opinion um But I I do feel So and I so I think it's great and helpful for us to have this deep conversation tonight that said I'm not sure that the semantics between those two bullets is important enough in a guidance document for us to delay any further and The decisions that still have to come because there's so many details that still need to be worked out in so many spending and implementation decisions and To mids lords comments earlier Conversations that need to be happening within with the staff in the buildings to figure out how we're going to actually implement That super high level plan that we saw on tuesday and that's where that's where for me It's really hard to consider changing this document mr. Demling Yeah, so I'm glad you brought that up because it circles back to mr. Lord's point about you know, these voices need to be heard we need to get these questions answered so Our our role in the process is holding that up So so there was there was a huge less scent from some kaka farm educated superintendent of questions so far Many of which can't be answered because we don't have the framework completely finished and we don't have the model voted Um, but he answered those from what I understand every overture Of meeting and wanting to communicate with superintendent. He's accepted from From from from the union. We have a bullet in there in this support staff document that The district will work with the leadership of its collective bargaining units to try to address other points of concern to staff Superintendent as I understand the union sent a very long list of questions to superintendent. So we've got to work through those So many of those are tbd tbd tbd And until until we're done, you know, like we're holding up the whole process And and I absolutely like agree with this lord like those conversations need to happen but like they can't happen to finality until we until we set this and um, and the reason why Collective bargaining why I like collective bargaining in there Is is that is the structure of how we operate as an employment organizations that if they are major concerns Then employees bring it to union leadership union leadership brings it to district leadership and they And then and they work out the why's and the where to force and it's our job to set the model of the structure of the How the education is going to be provided You know, so, uh I absolutely agree with that, but I don't I don't I don't I don't see that that not that conversation having not been completed Is isn't a reason to To to to not be able to support the strength of this recommendation Which again, I mean I don't want to lose sight of it is And I haven't read every plan in the country, but this is the most accommodating plan to staff. I have read If there's a more accommodating one, you know, I we could talk about it, but it's it goes above and beyond and and we are Saying so strongly and loudly with these meetings Um, that we are directing to the superintendent and the district That they need to the need that you need to seek to accommodate staff as much as possible While fulfilling our core obligation Um, and and and you know not not to not yeah while fulfilling our core obligation Ms. Lloyd you you unmuted yourself. Did you want to say something? um I just am a little confused if it's a recommendation and or non-binding why everything had to stop when it didn't pass because Like that confuses me um We don't have to go into it right now But I'm I'm still trying to understand if it's guidance and a recommendation Then why is it now shut down because we didn't agree to it Mr. Deming, so I'm I can I'm only this is just uh my memory of what the superintendent said, so I'm not like You know, I'm not speaking for the superintendent But basically it was unclear at the end of the previous conversation last Tuesday Whether the art committee was seriously considering allowing staff Uh choice under any option or under some limited option Where the district could not guarantee staffing Either for part or all of our on-site staffing for part or all of the model And so you can't go out to parents and say hey, we're going to have k to six phased in Four to five days a week if you can't guarantee that you're going to have the staff for it, right? um So, uh, I think I think that's that's that's the stoppage in the in the process for my And because the conversation Was it was going that direction and we didn't have a document that That hadn't sort of that proposed that language and so the assumption was is that it was going to be more at this this full choice so Miss spitzer you had your hand raised So I'm just trying to think through The path forward because it's almost eight o'clock at night. I'd like to put me It's and and I also hear peters Concerns loud and clear. I agree with him. We do need to to move forward our district needs to make decisions I'm not hearing support for the language I proposed I'm not and I get it that maybe this language isn't the right language. I think you guys understand Clearly, I think I've expressed very clearly my concern the population. I'm most concerned about um And I'm also not hearing support for changing the language to make it more clear or strengthen anything. Um We are four people and I don't I can't I think I have a anyway So if we fail to come to an agreement on a change in the language I don't see a way that the old choice model is going to move forward either and I'm It it seems like we're polarized right now. We're four so two two I I'm I don't know what how I I can't assume what anybody could I but I could see that happening if we vote so if we don't decide on on either approving this or a revision to this because I'm I think I don't see either those outcomes happening right now will we then um default To like letting the depart like I mean then the region and palom will have have the Document that you shared with us earlier tonight as as their guiding principles Will amherst just not have guiding principles on that and will that stop them from moving forward? Or will they be able to move forward with the presentation that we saw last I guess it was sorry Tuesday night I'm just trying to think through because I'm not hearing a lot of Compromiser now Mr. Denley Okay, there you go. My first time either tonight. Um, so I feel like we have to do everything we possibly can to move this forward tonight and I have other obligations at 8 30. Um, but I mean like if and if we need to take a break for 15 minutes and come back I'm willing to do that, but I feel like we we we have to do everything we can to try and forge through um Forge forge a path forward through tonight as excruciatingly painful as it may be at points. Um, that's just process wise. Um So here's a thought Um, and I'm really not trying to like honestly. I'm not trying to do this. Ms. Spitzer to disenfranchise your point of view Okay, it's going to sound like this But but what about this? I'm just trying to be very authentic and transparent and honest. Um, what what if what if we um What if we took a vote on um On the the the document as presented which I understand is a difference of opinion that a change would make it stronger If so, but we at least get to that point because right now the default is employment law and employment law is less accommodating than what we've identified It doesn't it doesn't have it's pretty much that first bullet in in different words Right. It doesn't have seek to accommodate Including concerns about households. It doesn't have um An emphasis on working with leadership of collecting bargain units to address all the other points. It doesn't have Uh provide time training pd. It doesn't have Um providing opportunities for staff to provide feedback some of those things we might just expect normally of a responsible district But it doesn't have those things particularly that second one But so that gets us so we're at default Right employment law that gets us to this level If if if we still think that there is additional um Strengthening that can happen then then before we took that vote Um, and I'm making this motion up on my on the fly um We could move uh that we Uh consider additions Um to this document and with our joint committee Um network where the meeting is already scheduled next Tuesday That way we say yes, we all agree To to to this we all agree with for employment law. We agree to these additional accommodations And then we we also agree that we are going to Have a discussion among our three committees and if there's You know A massive change of heart then then so be it but if not then then we move on and uh you know and we respect the fact that we are a a A um a divided group of people and we have different points of view about what should happen where in what what language? um That that that's the best path forward. I can I can think of now. I'm also I just don't want to assume anybody's vote by the way So, you know, I don't want to pigeonhole anybody and so I'm not saying this under the presumption that a vote would go three one or two two Even if I thought that a vote would go three one right now I don't want to have it at this minute because I would like really to um for us to be Ideally for us to be unanimous so that we are, you know supporting the same Path going forward and that's a stronger message to the community. Um anybody else's thoughts on that? Sorry, I was um I was pulling up the letter from the superintendent with in case that was helpful To share on screen for people to see what he's outlined as What would happen? If we do not come to some agreement on the document um So I missed the motion the or the the Crafting of a potential motion that you at the beginning of your statement. Mr. Deming. Could you We state it succinctly. Yeah Oh, okay, maybe not succinctly. I'm just a second draft. Um Uh That we we commit to to reconsidering Uh, uh, we commit to we commit to discussing um potential additions To the support for staff document with our other two committees And and hopefully and I can't speak for the superintendent and the other building principals But I think I think if we pass the same document with the same level of accommodations that the other two districts have passed Um, that should be enough to move things forward And then if if at some point we decide as school committees But yes, we understand that this that something might cause a major disruption Yes, we understand the consequences and the abc's but we if if first if that were to happen Well, then we would need to reassess, but at least we get the train moving down the track You know, the I I'm I'm I know everybody else is too. I'm very very concerned that we are Quite late and even though the state doesn't want us deciding anything. We're not three weeks, which is insanity. Um We are we are very late with this process and um Uh, you know and and we I feel like we need to kind of get out of the way like we've we've we've we have been at this for A long time and given a lot of effort and we need to to if we can't come to Agreement about about what that addition is let's at least get to what we agree is it, you know that that level of a combination Um, I'm not trying to disenfranchise anybody. I'm not trying to like You know, uh, do something quick and dirty. Um, I'm just I'm just trying to think of a way that we can we can get People moving and we can we can say this is the model like of course the school committee at any time could change Its mind on a number of things, but but that's not the case right now. This is this is what we at least commit to um So can I try restating that in a sick synced way? Um number one that we would look to a motion to commit to um drafting amendments, um or additions to the document with the other committees So we as as the amherst school committee Would would commit to doing that at our next scheduled joint meeting and then number two We would pass the current dot we would move to vote and pass the current document as it stands to be aligned with the other committees But we've we've already first committed that we're going to Take up the discussion of the of addendums Is that representing it? Mr. Deming. Yeah. Uh, yes. Um, and as i'm thinking about a couple of other benefits of this process, um, if it's amenable is Um, we could we could run both the language by council So that we were not speculating about what about what uh, what think what things might mean what we would have an actual You know, we could we could definitely ask him to put put his opinion and writing about about, um, the spitzer's proposed change Um, we would have the superintendent, uh there to answer clarifying questions so that we are not Um speculating about what he did or didn't say with regards to the written So he did give us a written statement. Um, but you know, there's all obviously questions that may come up that we might want to ask That would be a deeper Um, uh point of view and if we wanted the assistant superintendent there as I said a few times, you know, and in charge of hr If we say, okay, if you had this language, how are you approaching situation? You know, obviously not with personal details But like how are you approaching? Um, this evaluation and if you had this language, how would it change you? Um, and then we could we could have that informed decision um, but But we at least agree to that, you know, the but what the standard it currently is in the um in the document For today so that the train can keep going Any comments or thoughts on on mr. Demling's proposal? so, um Mr. Sir Yeah, I I'm being slow because I want to give an opportunity for you know, I feel like I've been driving this conversation a lot so But um, I'm also I'm happy to be in that position. So here's um Like so many things that we've had to make decisions make it doesn't feel good I'm not gonna sleep much better tonight. I think if that's what happens I I I still feel strongly that um, we I guess where I'm still like I just want this to have As much I want staff to feel like we've got their back and I want students to feel that way too And I and I think we're hearing most strongly from the staff right now And maybe these are not representative because I am not You know, I I haven't it's not my role to go out and survey and talk to every single staff person but from the public comment I'm getting I'm hearing folks who are really feeling like they need more support and more um Relations and and maybe that's just a matter of time and and getting into the weeds and getting You know holding the info session that we want and maybe these are things that'll make people feel more supportive, but I'm I This is my you know, I'm not doing this to try to you know derail plans or anything. I'm doing it because I'm hearing pretty loud and clear that There are members of our community teachers and staff who feel That's real valid concerns. And so that that's why I want to put that out there It's like that's why I'm not doing this just to you know Stand on high horse or push us towards a fully remote option though. Those are not my it's just trying to do this So I I would I I'd like to hear what everybody has to think about this before I make a final vote on this But I think I could probably do that. I similarly want to hear from council I similarly want to hear from hr and the superintendent You know, I have you know had some conversations with him, but I'd like to have an open conversation with him publicly about this Um, you know, I didn't just dream this up on completely on my own um So I I think um I I think I could do what peters suggesting I Like I said, it doesn't feel good and I don't want to And I just feel like they're probably you know, they're gonna be lots of people watching we're unhappy On like there's no way we're gonna make everybody happy. That's just the this role and it's not our job But I'm just trying to do right by both the students and the teachers And I'm I'm not sure how to do it, but this is this is I'm trying my best And I think we all are and there's no right solution I think um I I I want to just be clear In case it hasn't been that I also want you want to Signal and you know, as you said, you know that we have their back the stuff that So it's not and you know, these these questions keep me up at night They wake me up in the middle of the night. They wake I wake up in the morning thinking about this. So It's it's not for any lack of concern or care or or thought from all the conversations that I've been having with teachers um all the text messages and emails that we've been getting from teachers and staff that's it's That that just like You know, like it affects me to my core And I I do do really really believe that what we've put together really does Say that that we are that we want to seek to accommodate them and within the statement that We are a public school and we need and we need to be making decisions for students first And we we can't put ourselves in a situation That we're that we're going to balancing or doing anything less than what we believe is is sort of It's is that free and appropriate public education for our students in achieving our mission We've been accused in the past of running a school for the purpose of the adults This I fear that by saying and compromising on sort of what we might be meeting and meeting the desires and needs of the families Of the students in our in our in our districts that we would be doing that um It's it's not I don't I also don't want it to be an either or I want everybody to feel safe. I want everybody to feel um Accommodated I want everybody to feel like we we've got their best interests in mind And how do we do that while still fulfilling our our mission and our obligation to the students in our district In our mission, that's I've heard others talk about it as a zero-sum game. We can't we can't we can't meet both 100 percent and I feel really strongly that the document that we've drafted originally really does Say very strongly and clearly that we want to make sure that our staff are taken care of As much as possible while also delivering on the needs of our of the students in our care um, miss um, but all of that said I'm also um open to the the proposal that mr. Demling um Mr. Demling um, uh suggested and outlined and in particular because of the opportunity that that would bring us to have that conversation with um with the superintendent present If the assistant superintendent was also able um and and to join us And and and get more of that input and to understand sort of these nuances that we're we're trying to answer here and none of us are our labor lawyers or or HR professionals so Um, miss lord, I thought were you wanting to say something? Um, yes So I understand not prioritizing adults students have always been my number one priority Some people might have tried to challenge that on monday But I also know that if our teacher or a worker is forced and anxious and Not healthy then they're not going to be able to serve our students as well as they could if So I just wanted to make that straight that I'm not prioritizing the privileged or the adults or anything at all I'm a little hesitant about The proposal and pardon me. It's trust issues. It almost sounds like we'll say whatever We need to say to get it passed and then we might not live up to the honor or the commitment that we made to actually Talk about amendments and that's no that's not a personal slide on any of you Which is the way institutions can work um and because we're in such a hurry and we're behind and I understand that But that's also a culture that sometimes forces us to rush through So I want to thank each and every one of you. It's been a lot this week We're all working really hard to try to find some middle ground and I think that's all I have to say Mr. Demley So before I make a motion so one one thing that um I understand the trust issue institutions absolutely um, so the one Fortuitous thing And in that respect though is that we already have A joint meeting of our three committees scheduled for next Tuesday So when we pass a motion that says at our next joint meeting There's already a time. It's we're not like, uh, you know, we'll figure it out. It's already there We know what's going to happen. Um, so, you know, we at least have that um, and and before I make a motion the other comment I would have is um, if we could um Have anybody anybody here or and and maybe anybody maybe the chairs um Ms. McDonald's clone and and mishall If reach out to our committees update them on what happened At the end of this meeting assuming what happens happens and say if you have questions for counsel Um about specific language and what it means, you know, please articulate them to the chairs and the chairs will collect them all and and for them to counsel and counsel will do their best to um You know provide provide a written response. Um, I think that's probably the best, uh The best avenue to to provide another resource for for reference. So I would like to add I I I get that sort of Feeling of uncertainty about kicking the can down the road on the commitment at that next meeting And and I'll add that if we voted on a different document tonight There's no guarantee that the other two districts would vote would vote that and we'd be back We'd be back in the situation that we were on Tuesday morning. So You know, I feel like this is this is a A better solution to get us hopefully to you know to some something that works well for everybody um as opposed to You know moves us forward and then Potentially could put it set us all the way back to Tuesday morning and we have nothing again. So Mr. Deming I move that we consider additions to the staff support doc staff support guidance document at our next Uh joint meeting with the emerson pellum and pellum school committees a second Motion um by demling second and by spitzer Any further discussion Yeah, can I just make a comment? So I I just want to say I think We get along most of the time, you know, it's very rare that we have these um really Split votes or difficult conversations And I think this is the time to have them because this is the mat This is what matters most what we're doing right now is the hardest and also the most important. So Thank you for continuing to show up. This has been difficult and I You know, I appreciate the hard work everybody's doing Mr. Demley well said And and I will I will pile on that that train as well. Um I um Couldn't have asked for a better stronger More committed and supportive Committee of colleagues. So so thank you for saying that miss spitzer Um, so we'll move to a roll call vote. Um, mr. Demling Demling I Miss lord Could you please repeat the motion for me? The motion was to Consider additions to the staff document with the other three committees at our next joint meeting Lord I Lord I miss spitzer Spitzer I And mcdonald I the motion passes for zero When I'm not present With some um, well, I guess I'll make the the next motion. Um, I move that we Um approve the um Framework, sorry, fill up on my screen. Um The framework for planning fall 2020 support for staff section as As presented and amended on monday july 20th second Moved by mcdonald seconded by demling. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, we'll move to a roll call vote mr. Demling And demling I Miss lord lord I Miss spitzer spitzer I And mcdonald I The motion passes for zero when not present Thank you everybody. I Hear the difficulty and and challenge in that vote. Um, and we will amend our agenda on um for to actually know it's already on our agenda as such so we're good I won't tell mr. Harrington that he may return And he's back uh just to recap mr. Harrington we um voted a motion to take up this uh the Discussion of potential additions to the original staff section on um at our joint meeting three committees meeting on tuesday And then we voted to approve the original The original document that was in our packets this evening Our next order of business is to accept gifts and we do not have any gifts That i'm aware of. Um, so does somebody have a final motion I move to adjourn Second Moved by Harrington seconded by spitzer. There's no discussion roll call vote mr. Demling Demling I mr. Harrington Harrington I Miss lord lord I Miss spitzer Spitzer I In mcdonald I we are adjourned Good night, everyone