 It's so last century, they're happy to chant, rant and rave and progressing their cause of keeping things standing still and moving backwards while changing economic pressures have kept the world moving on changing and adapting like any bully they are happy to smack but once they get smacked it's wa wa wa all the way to anyone who will listen. Your views are quite clear. Helen, good morning to you. Look, there's been, I would say a consensus emerging amongst our callers this morning that if you're going to play with matches you might occasionally get your fingers burnt but if this guy's going to go out in the media and say that his employers are mean and not family friendly you can only expect the employers to bite back. Well, that's not what this guy did actually. Rady on his young sticker microphone in front of him and said, why is he on the picket line? He said because I'm being dismissed by my employer, I'm being replaced by cheaper labour and actually I want to work for my employer. I like working for the Port of Auckland and I want to protect job security and be able to have some security around my family income. He didn't criticise the Port, in fact he was saying— Hang on, he was standing on a picket line full of union members, some of whom have made a YouTube video using their families in a very emotive way to engender public support. Yeah, but John, let's have a look about this. Why do employers collect private information about their workers? They collect it to run their business. That's the condition on which they collect it. This guy's wife was dying of cancer in 2007 and the Port gave him leave, 50 days annually which he was entitled to and some other leave. 21 weeks in total. He is about to be dismissed in five weeks time and he is fighting to protect his job. He can apply for a new job. No, he can apply for a new job on any terms that the contractor chooses to offer. He may or may not get it. He's got a job. His job will continue. The day after he's made redundant, his work on that Port will continue and the Port to bully him, to push him back has released his private information. Has he applied for a new job? These workers don't want to be contracted out. They don't want to be made redundant. They don't want to be— Then why did they go and strike? Because they want to stop the Port doing what they're doing. They want to stop the Port contracting out. They want a collective employment agreement and they want to return to work. Then why didn't they settle? A collective employment agreement was put in front of them with absolutely no employment security that had removed even basic things like the rehabilitation of injured workers. It had removed all sorts of— How come so many other people are prepared to work under those conditions? People shouldn't have to work under those conditions. How come so many other people are? Like who? People in Tauranga? The other workers who are on contract at the Port? No, the people in Tauranga fought hard and lost the battle to retain secure work in Tauranga and would have loved to have been able to win and to retain them. There's very few people working in the Port of Auckland, but really sure, what if the deal around work? The deal around work is you exchange your wages for labour in a fair trade and that you should have sufficient security to be able to pay your mortgage, to be able to pay your power. If that's not the deal anymore, if you can go to work and just be paid anything and have no control over that and have the state have to value out with additional supports and even make basic information— What was the average wage for the people on strike? They're earning $27 an hour. What was the average annual— I'll tell you what you're alluding to. Let's be upfront here. You're suggesting the Port's information that full-time warfee earning $91,000 a year is the fax. Well, not the fax and the Port's backed down on that now and agreed. The $91,000. Okay, what is the average wage for the people on strike? Well, I don't know because I've never released what the average wage is across the whole workforce. Well, why not? Isn't that relevant as people try and make a decision? They earn $27 an hour. I'm telling you what the wage is. Okay, which is what twice the minimum wage? Day with the working Saturday. Sunday with the working Christmas day. There is a flat rate of $27 an hour. Now you can work out if you work 40 hours what you might get paid, if you work 60 hours if you work 80 hours what you might get paid. And a lot of that time they're not actually working? They are working, Sean, and that's another piece of misinformation. Firstly, the Port said they've got $91,000 for 26 hours. Now they say it's $91,000 and includes only full-timers and includes all of the additional costs of employing them and is $49 hours. They have never said what a worker who earns $91,000 a year would have to work in terms of hours. And you know why they haven't said that? Because it's a hell of a lot of hours. You'd have to work at $27 an hour to get to $91,000. Anyone of your listeners can work it out. This Port is stooping to anything. At the moment, though, the workers are redundant. They're going to hire contractors. I understand the picket's gone today. No, no, the picket hasn't gone. Are you still stopping members of the public trying to go around their lawful business and getting to the Port? No, we didn't stop members of the public. And I'm really disappointed that you're taking such an aggressive action. No, no, I'm just asking the question. Out of control. Apparently you were... No, no, no, no, no. Helen, Helen, Helen, were you stopping people at the gates to the ports of Auckland? Actually, on Monday, when a ship came in and was going to be loaded by replacement labour, the Port workers were stopping the members of another union going through to bring that ship in. Well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Helen Clark, but in the year 2012, what on earth are you doing stopping other people going around their lawful business and going to their workplace? They were letting them through. They were letting through anybody that was going through except other union members. Well, I'm sorry. You've got no right to do that. You've got no right to do that in a free country. You're allowed to protest in this country. You're not allowed to stop other people going around their lawful business, Helen Kelly. No, it was a lawful packet and you are allowed to protest in this country. And if you're suggesting people can't protest in this country when the sort of thing the port is doing to them is being done, then I suggest that you're not part of a normal democracy. Well, what I'm saying is, but protesting doesn't mean stopping other people going to work. Well, sometimes protesting causes inconvenience. Yes, it does. But what they were doing was actually letting through hundreds of people, people who are going through that packet line to do their normal duties, what they were picketing for, was to stop people going through to bring that ship in that was going to be worked by replacement labour. This is a fight for these people, security of employment, their future of work, and really the port is behaving in the most precious way. And we know the people of Auckland don't like it. They turned up on Saturday to protest. I'll come on. 5,000 people out of the population of Auckland is hardly anything. It was a big march for Saturday afternoon, for the people treating as they go past the packet line, the people dropping off food, people donating money. People understand that workers are entitled to security of employment, are entitled to earn a living, and that what the port is doing is simply the most draconian effort to get rid of their work for them. Okay, it doesn't sound like it's over yet. It's certainly not over yet. No, there's the redundancy notices which take effect in about five weeks, and we intend to spend the next five weeks trying to get their employment back. Okay, you're going to stop other people going to work? No, I have to put the packets on that packet line. Helen Kelly, why can't you just say it? You are stopping people going lawfully going to their jobs. Well, it's a lawful packet. No, no, no, no, stopping someone. Why can't you, Sean, for one minute take a breath because I think that an individual New Zealander has the right to go to work and have no other person in the— Why haven't you put your employment rights before when you feel like your employer has had to go at you unfairly? I've seen you do it. And I have walked, in every instance when I felt that I have decided to take my later somewhere— And your calendar employer, you've used the law. Why don't you allow these workers to— I've never stopped anyone else going to work. 300—well, you even had to. 320 workers are about to be dismissed for no reason when their jobs are continuing because this port wants to bring in cheaper labour. If you don't back workers to get decent jobs, then there's no future for any worker in this country. They should take what they get, they should shut up, they should comply with the business, and they should be treated in the most disrespectful way. If you're anticipating that, go ahead. Helen Kelly, I thank you very much indeed for your time this morning.