 Now, last Friday, the Supreme Court of Nigeria dealt a major blow to a signature agenda of President Mohammad Buhari when it shot down Executive Order No. 10, ceding financial autonomy to state legislature and judiciary. The apex court held that Executive Order No. 10 was inconsistent with the 1999 constitution and therefore unconstitutional, illegal, null and void, and of no effect whatsoever. So joining us to break this down is head attorney of LeBoris or Shoma Chambers, LeBoris or Shoma. Thank you very much Mr. Shoma for joining us. Yeah, thank you my sister. Great. Let's... A lot of people do not necessarily understand the nitty-gritty of the Executive Order No. 10. So let's lay a basis, a foundation for it and why Mr. President had to go this route. Yeah, if you remember Section 1, 2, 1 subsection 3 empowers the state's legislature and the judiciary. The revenue, revenue that accrues to the state legislature and the judiciary to be charged directly to those arms of government. But unfortunately, that had not been so, as a section had been largely obeyed in breach by the state government. So sometimes in 2021, just in the judicial union of Nigeria, the judicial union of Nigeria went on strike for about 80 days or so and then in an attempt to resolve that issue, the president signed Executive Order No. 10 to instruct the auditor general to, with all funds meant for state government, I refuse to comply with Section 1, 2, 1 subsection 3, which states that revenue that accrues to state legislature and judiciary should be charged directly to them. And so the governors went to court. In one break, the governors were requesting that that was a tribute pass of the president in another break, asking the president and the court to order the government to pay them, I think about 10, was it $600 billion or so that they have spent on a capital project for state judiciary. And so what the court simply said was, well, why? The Executive Order No. 10 is a tribute pass of the president because it amounts to amending Section 1, 2, 1 subsection 3, also that you cannot deny the fact that the state judiciary are actually owned by the state, so any money expended by the state governor should not be refunded to them by the federal government. That's basically the review of the term. Now, a lot of people would say or refer to what the Supreme Court has done as a win for the governors. In fact, the governors may even be rejoicing, but in reality, is this a win for the governors? Because again, the issue of autonomy for both the legislature and even local governments has been a front burner issue. We keep talking about it year in, year out, but the governments or the governors of this state continuously hold on to those finances. And the question is really why? Yeah, why Executive Order No. 10 was a good law, but also we should not forget that if such laws are allowed to stand and you have a detector for a president, it might resort to the usage of executive orders to circumvent the provisions of the constitution. So that's why for me, I would rather not say it's a win for the state governors, but rather a win for the Nigerian people, that the Supreme Court stood firmly behind the letters and spirit of the constitution. So what, you know, the responsibility is now on the rest of us to ensure that the autonomy guaranteed by the constitution to the judiciary and the state legislature should indeed be up there. I have consistently charged the MBA in the short term to request for interpretation of the constitution and on that section and also push for my amendment of that section one to one to include a proviso, a penetatory clause for state governors that refuse to comply with the sections empowering autonomy for state legislature and the judiciary. Because really, if we do not have an autonomous legislative arm of government, like we do at the center, it will be a way of kissing goodbye to our democracy, a fledging democracy, because if you have to speak correctly, the local governments are most non-existent. And so if you have the state legislature that are still under the April strain of the state executive and then they will have to put to the state executive in everything that they do, then it truly means that democracy is at a stake. And the means of all of us, every hands must be on that to ensure that, you know, the autonomy, financial autonomy granted to some of government is strictly compliant. And that's why for me also I think we should consistently look at our election and electionary mode to have a transparent process where the governors will not act as self-emperors or behemoths like we see them do, where state funds meant for other arm of government in their state are consistently head on. Someone asked a question some time ago that, you know, if these people are at the whims and caprices of the governors of the state and this has now happened, how do these workers in especially the legislative workers seek redress? Because again, they need, like you have said, some form of autonomy. So what's next other than us saying let's wait for the elections, how else do we deal with this issue? Is it just going to become another local government autonomy issue that's just there, you know, somewhere? Yeah, that's why for me, like I said, consistently, it is not something we all should just gloss over or go to sleep because the Supreme Court has said, look, rightly so, executive order another 10. The president, you don't have the powers to use executive orders to amend or add to the sections of the constitution. What we should now do, what the president attempted though, to correct that anomaly, what the rest of us should now do, including, look, let me tell you, if not for that just strike, the executive order number 10 would have come into being. So I would also urge members of the workers at the state legislative offices, including just also to go back and down to the moment they incapacitated both the state legislatures and the state judiciary, the governors who have no other option but to ensure and insist that they all comply with the section 121 sub-3, and then also I want to challenge the bodies of state House of Assembly speakers. I expect that when they meet at that level, this should be an opportunity, this should be a heated topic for them also to rock minds on and insist that they remain on the corner. It doesn't feel we should hope whatsoever because I can imagine, just imagine that funds made for the state governors are withheld by the president, which is who wanted them to cut on the first place. You know, the way things are presently, it is difficult for the state House of Assembly to even challenge their governors because, you know, they are fighting. I was about to say that because most of these legislatures that we have in states are almost rubber stamped. So who's going to call up the governor and say, we need these monies released? I mean, it's going to continue as a vicious cycle if something doesn't give. It is the rest of us. You know, so let me tell you, you and I are members of the civil society. All of us, it is those of us that this thing affect, not necessarily the people who are benefitting it from it financially, but the rest of us that insist on good governance, rule of law and transparency, because we are the ones that will benefit in the long run. It is the holds on the rest of us to insist, if look, let me tell you one thing. These governors are afraid of us as a people. When we keep quiet, they think that all is well, but when we consistently talk about these things and keep them in the footballer, it also pushed them back to insist to also want to amend the session of the constitution. It is an impossibility for the state of assembly to insist on the autonomy as a decision of autonomy for houses of assembly. They cannot achieve it. It is we, the ordinary people, and in some cases, the workers in the assembly and then the workers in the courts that should be able, that would be able to insist on the compliance with the provisions of the constitution. And that's how democracy develops. Because if we, the rest of us, sit down and say, because it doesn't affect us and so we are not going to fight for that cause, gravity, our laws will be observed in bridge. This is a section of the constitution that is being violated with impunity by state governors and they still want houses of assembly to come cap in hand begging for budgets, begging for funds, meant for the running, smooth running of the legislative arm of government. And what that means is that the governors have consistently violated our laws with impunity and with the rest of us quietly, you know, just keep quiet and do nothing about it. This is a government that is closest to us. And it is, because of us now, now that the court has said, look, Mr. President, you do not have the powers to amend the constitution, you know, by every order, you can do something else. Enough beholds on us to go back as civil societies, members of trade union to go back and insist that our governors cannot be higher than our laws. Our governors are not superior to our laws, because if we allow it today, tomorrow it might be something worse. The governors can even withhold salaries and allowances. Already they are withholding salaries and allowances of the ordinary workers. To the extent that now that Western government pays salaries, they are still celebrated as an achievement. Before you know it, they are testing the water granularly with one seat. If they can withhold salaries, and now they are withholding finances, meant for state design assembly, meant for judiciary. Before you know it, the rest of the government can just sit down the budget and say there is no money, so it is not going to pass the budget. Is it at that time that we will wake up? Even as I speak to you, the local government on the council is almost non-existent. The state governors have made it cup matters that in some cases they appoint sole administrators to overwhelm the affairs of the local government in places where the constitution has guaranteed the democratically elected government at the local level. It's because we are all quiet. We are quays on our rights. So do we see a hashtag Occupy Government House anytime soon in different states? But then I would like to ask, are there any states that have complied with this section of the constitution to make sure that monies are released to the legislatures? I'm wondering, are there any states that other states could emulate? No, not so far. Absolutely not. When it comes to these issues, they are all uniform. They are all unanimous. No state has granted autonomy procedures of assemblies. Just see them running back to the governors and see if they are beggars to the executive. And it is bad. It's very dangerous for our democracy. It is not something the rest of us should encourage. They were elected the same way that the state governor is elected. And so even though the state governor heads, the way the state governor heads the executive arm is the same way the speaker of the House of Assembly heads the legislative arm. You know, even though the state governor carries the burden of the government, but then he shouldn't treat other arms of government as do their sub-servient to the executive, or that they are servants to the executive. It's because the rest of us are loudings. Hmm, well, I want to say thank you. Liborosa Shoma is the lead attorney at Liborosa Shoma chambers. Thank you so much for speaking with us. We appreciate it. My pleasure. All right. Well, I want to thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a quick break. When we come back, I will give you my take. Here's my take. Now, there are some who agree with the principle behind the executive order number 10 signed by the president, but there are also contending issues. The provision which empowers the accounts in general of the Federation to authorize the deduction from source is in the course of the Federation accounts allocation from the monies allocated to any state of the Federation that fails to release allocation meant for the state legislature and the state judiciary in line with the financial autonomy guaranteed by section 12, subsection 3 of the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, 1999 as amended, which we can say is contentious. But I'm thinking that in a country where the rule of law is supreme, there would have been no need whatsoever for an executive order to compel our governments to comply with the Constitution that they swore to uphold. So if the governors can blatantly refuse to obey the Constitutionist as it is the case on this issue, how will these affected people seek redress? I really hope, if you ask me, that governors will not see this judgment as a victory for their lawlessness. We must keep this conversation alive. The law should and must apply to all and not some. I mean our leaders can't keep picking and choosing the laws that they want to obey and the ones that they want to discard. I look forward to a time when accountability will be the watchword of Nigeria's leaders. Maybe then, just maybe then, Nigeria can truly work. I'm Mary Anakon, but before I leave you I'd like to let you know what Nigerians are reacting to in terms of the government's plan, the federal government's plan, to an important bad fuel. Let's take a look, but have a good evening. The country needs fixing itself. So if they're using 200 and whatever billion to fix dirty fuel, how did it get into the country? Number one, how did they do? They're not giving us names. To start with, they're not giving us names. Who imported those fuel into the country? How did the fuel, and so how did they know what they want to fix? They should just tell us that they want to use this money for another corruption deal. And after they would tell us that, oh, they are probing these people. See Nigerians, we are not, we are tired of all these people. We are tired of this government. That is why we need to come out and vote the right person this time around. Thank you. Number one, our country is corrupt. So now what are we going to do about the corruption? We need to fight the corruption because from the top, the corruption started. So where then you are crying for the fuel problem? I'm not saying anything big deal because you know, you know, anytime a election like this, it must have one thing for this country to hold it on it, to make us say they're going to take that one to punish other people. There are so many other things that government can do. I think the marketer who brought the the contaminated fuel to the country, they are still there. They are the people that are supposed to be responsible for all this cleaning. Even all the engine that this adulterated fuel has spoiled. It is marketer, it is people, whether it is NMPC or marketer's private markets that brought the fuel to the country. These are the people that are supposed to clean all those things. The two hundred and one billion Naira, the federal government said they want to use for this now. I don't think there's any, I don't think it makes any sense. The federal government using the sum of using the sum of two hundred and one billion Naira to clean up the dirty fuel impotention to me is a fraud. It's a kind of trying to to monopolize the oil sector. It's a good thing. I support that government but that money say they're going to take and do that thing. They don't talk enough. They're going to see what they're going to do. They want to go, they want to do it. It's good.