 people are wondering why luigi is in this mario game this is unprecedented this is breaking new ground unprecedented unprecedented what's it got to do with the president rags i don't understand i don't know mario supremacy is by done all right that's all online let me get the link for you oh while we're doing setup we should probably be like hey who here hasn't met each other say hello because i'm not even sure who it is or not hello hello well actually no i should probably start with welcome shady do rags that is how that's pronounced right i'm doing that right uh i hope so yeah because that's how i've been saying it oh thank goodness um you've uh you have seen around in the chat you you sent me a was it an email or a discord i'm not even sure but either way we've uh got you into chat a bit about media and uh well welcome welcome to efeb how are you doing welcome welcome gracious uh yeah see i kind of embellished the story you know when i tell people it's like uh it's not that i sent moller an email it's definitely he sent me one like hey you could have said that i'm gonna believe you because i i can't even remember anymore i've got so many things this is the worst time of year for me for like keeping my brain in check there's some shit going on but hey you're here that's what's important it's almost spooky wean it is that we are minutes away minutes yeah wow is it okay everything fine did it get super dark all of a sudden or no it's just pretty chill no music yeah there's always do we seem to be ghosts running around pumpkins no yeah there's that uh mariah carry song that they love playing at this time of year hmm well i want for halloween is you or whatever all i want to all i want for halloween is boo i i assume that's how it goes like the first chords play and then i stop listening well i think uh yeah i think it's almost a spooky wean time and it's great and we're gonna have the pumpkins with the faces and there's gonna be the ghosts and the goblins and the witches we got goblins all year round what's that about they don't stick to one another they're miga they migrate yeah i'm in wales so a lot of goblins this is kind of a lot of goblins in wales yeah roost hangar over the summer they roost we have the queen goblins live in wales i think that's where they spawn uh but yes welcome and obviously uh good to meet you myself but also everybody here i presume i don't know if you've met anyone here before uh i just uh you know assume not i assume i assume nobody here has met each other before this is a little brand new for i i have not met anyone here i'm alone and i'm confused and i'm afraid that's i get nervous around new people that's actually the way i always wanted to be for guests i want them to have no idea what's happening whatsoever they don't even want them to know what english is as a language that's always created the best results i find but um yeah welcome anyway is what i'm trying to get and i assume everyone did their homework chat i'm gonna make them stress out because i didn't actually give them homework oh my goodness oh i get really watched ratatouille and if you didn't i'm judging you it's funny because i didn't say anything about this last but they don't know that is funny look at them all stressing sweating um they were stressed for a solid half a second there but we watched it and by we i mean me rags and fringy together and my god i just wanted to start off with saying what a great fucking movie man yeah it's top tier it's uh one of pixar's best it's such a nice thing to get reminded of like oh yeah this is when pixar kicked ass like they they knew what they were doing 2005 2008 i don't know if there's like any studio something in the water this is a stream of amazing films one of their best movies i think great screenplay oh you guys you guys are activating like my biggest fear like my biggest fear was the first thing i was going to do is come in here and say something it's actually shit most people who see this yeah put it in great uh pixar quality i just put it in good pixar quality oh my it's full of french people and remmy's a fucker it's it's not bad i don't think it's bad it's just i don't see it as top tier pixar i don't put it up there with Incredibles or Toy Story um and they're the thing that sounds to me from the thing that sounds to me for putting it really up there is whatever i ask people like what makes it or whatever i hear people talking about this movie they always reference the themes and i get that i want to say get that but the plot to me relies a way too much on luck like a little bit of luck i can handle but there's so much luck in this movie like even kid me was like really um i'm inclined to agree with you i think the character and theme of the strongest pillars meanwhile plot has a couple of flaws here and there to make sure everything runs smoothly uh it doesn't beat out walley for me it's gonna be number one forever probably and uh Incredibles is hard to beat Incredibles is fucking cool but those are my top three Incredibles walley and Ratatouille Ratatouille's character work themes are just too uh that they're too strong that even even granting that there are some major contrivances in the plot even granting that it's like yeah but the character work in the themes they're just oh it's too too exemplary i mean yeah but with Incredibles you have a great plot and great character structure so that's why i'm like yeah i'm not sure why uh i i don't know why the like i Incredibles isn't my top three like pixar films like you're not gonna find me disagreeing with you on that one i think uh Ratatouille is pro is my favorite i think it's just because it hits me in the feels really big i think it's got a i just think that's it just always always hits me obviously all of them have plenty to say in fact they have a lot more to say than one might expect because you're like oh it's that message but it's also that and that and if you think about that oh and that and there's been a new answer for that and you're like holy yeah and all achieved in less than two hours every single time you know like isn't it incredible i don't mean to absolutely annihilate this dead horse's corpse but um Incredibles is a different movie shut the fuck up you got a soca episode one and two that can almost get up to about two hours right yeah and think about how much i think they are about two hours right because the first episode is like 50 minutes something something really close like can you imagine comparing the density of content between those two like approaches to storytelling absolutely nice i wouldn't even i feel like i wouldn't even bother it's in a completely different league in terms of craft yeah it's not fair to compare them this is like uh this is like getting michael felps to getting to a racing competition with i don't know like a cinder block maybe assuming the race is in water if it depends on if you're trying to go horizontal or vertical because if you're going down the center block's gonna win oh my god i was just thinking why does why does a rock sink and a ship's doesn't oh because their stone looks only downwards walking down its eyes are on the bottom i don't even know what that fucking means fin rides what are you talking about you need the anime and pixel movie from this year about stones with little eyes that look up at it like what are you talking about like all of that light of the eluvitar is getting to his fucking head on my life i've been a stone but i've wanted to be a ship there you go you can't be a ship son a stone is a stone a ship is a ship like i'll show you dad that's the end of action i'm not a stone i'm a rock if you're a rock you can't be a stone yeah there would be a joke about what dad was the difference between like a rock and a stone and a mineral like glad you asked son but something i want to show you and the dad would be like you know ignorant on some things but you probably say something really inspirational at one point in the movie and you come out and in the end around it all out like no jokes aside i love the metaphor of bug's life uh about the scene in the tree absolutely adore that metaphor i haven't seen bug likes ages of that era it's not like in the category of cars it feels like it's in the in the in between room it's like one of the more forgotten pixar films i think it was there was it their first it was their second so they did because they did toy story and then they did a bug's life and toy story too wasn't originally i think originally it wasn't meant to be theatrical but then the longer it went on the more it turned it like it was you know this was the era of uh you know sequels on vhs dvd uh bug's life was a lot of highs and a lot of blows because you know they were very expensive experimental on a bunch of stuff and the plot is contrived in a lot of places but the metaphorical and character stuff like really hits the high notes in that movie you can tell they kind of wanted to repeat the success of toy story so they're like randy newman again people like randy newman right he's like is randy can you do the theme song for a bug's life and he's like no i can't i'm doing monk and i okay well yeah no references baby and then when he was done with that then he's like okay i could do the other thing you want me to do man i really like the score in months zinc it's so brilliant oh yeah i like my favorite song and is uh put that thing back where it came from more so help me that's a good that's a good one i really like that one that's not me not me my favorite uh pixar shorts is is he is he our favorite one-eyed character or does anyone have another one-eyed character that beats i mean lila was uh beat me oh yeah yeah i mean i really like mike mike's awesome mike was asky mike was have a ski um well i was gonna say quickly just out of curiosity from left to right if you can just name what you believe to be the best pixar movie out of curiosity best i'd have to think about it more but my favorite is finding me mo all right that choice it's one of my favorite movies of all time great my yeah mine's walley it's one of my favorite films just yeah in general i would say walley as well ratatouille might be a second for me walley for me walley's the best but i like ratatouille the most i think it's a tie between several movies but to insert my own personal bias i'm gonna say incredibles yep that choice and i probably have to go in credibles as well but i have never seen walley so i could oh my god that's okay we want if app is canceled we're watching walley you guys i'm gonna go sort that out everyone we'll see you next week so it's like what get about it's like no this is good news i'll pretend it to the throne i have an excuse to watch walley again oh that sounds good no i've heard lots of good things about walley but yeah there's a couple of pixar ones that i've just i've never seen or just haven't seen more than once but that one i've never seen ever which i realize this is a crime but you know that was the last film in the golden age for pixar because uh up isn't as up is overrated it's a good movie it's a good movie but it's up is always so so to me it was good but hey man love that opening love that 15 minutes see the thing is i put ratatouille like blow up like they're on the same tier i think is higher both metaphorically and not metaphorically than ratatouille um the reason why up is overrated is it's kind of like it's not really the film that was the first uh pixar film that got nominated for best picture which i think is like insane that that all of the films that they made before that were not considered good enough to be nominated for best picture there's only i think only three animated films have ever been nominated for best picture the first was beauty and the beast second was up third was toy story three i think that's really lame that are that like walley and the incredibles and ratatouille toy story and monsters ink all of these films were considered not good enough to be nominated for best picture because animated films barely ever ever get nominated for best picture i just um i remember even when i first watched it that i was blown away by the opening and then i was like what the hell was the rest of the film like not in a way that i thought it was terrible just it felt strange you got a lot more i felt that way too and i still i felt that way too with up like the the beginning of the movie is just mind blowing you do not expect that from this type of movie and the the rest of the movie it's like do we like change courses somewhere like what happened okay you know there are they can do it once he once he gets on the island with the talking dog it got like a little too wacky for me like relative to the way it started i didn't dislike it but it felt like it went off the rails a bit he's a good lad yeah i don't like kevin i like uh i like that bird i like those yeah kevin's great she's good the thing about off is that like after that first 15 minutes it becomes like it just it it's it's not as bad it's just a lot more normal and just like conventionally good but like not exceptionally good deja vu deja vu in what way i mean that's almost exactly what i said about ratatouille not the ratatouille itself like 15 minutes is excellent and then starts to become more just normal good well not not the first 15 minutes part it's that it's not that it's bad it's just that it's good but it's not top tier quality that's why same ratatouille and upper in the same tiers although personally i put up a lot of ratatouille i don't really agree but it's okay and that's the beauty of art criticism analysis and discussion which is an easy segue into what we're talking about today which is a video called the problem with over criticism and it's a referential to film review in youtube or on youtube and uh it's using ratatouille as a vehicle to try and let us know about the truth of criticism the reason for it that we may have lost along the way and i don't mean we is in any particular person but he does make reference to particular people means we is in the french as in ratatouille yes they've lost their way those french they antony goes just too cruel but he wasn't french though right he was like in the story i guess he would have been english uh i'm actually done though some of the characters i can't tell if they're supposed to be french but they're just played by americans and or brits or what's going on there but i think he's french with i don't know actually anton what is anton an ego what is oh wait isn't it interesting that the man named anton ego his last word in the movie is me my god isn't that a completely worthless fucking fact that i thought of in my brain all right we can carry on we can wrap that up so hard to make that have meaning i was like where is he getting at and i just did the meme where the person's staring in space and there's math in front of him i was trying so hard to figure out what you were trying to say no that's it we're there baby and it's one of those things right so you don't even want to like explain to people you should want to be like it's odd in and of itself you just want to let that sink in and simmer and so it did uh that's a marinate well there's no reason not to get started i think everybody's in the watch together so exciting times ahead uh i'm not gonna say what to expect with this video i'm mostly hoping for us to have a little chat about media criticism i suppose well art criticism i should say do we gotta talk about art on this podcast dad we do be doing that apparently yes uh before we even start the video up we've got this slide here we've got if you were told what is the connecting factor with all of these i guess you'd have to go with review yeah reviewer media criticism yeah roger ebert.com i don't know if that's about pitch fork i've never heard of pitch fork i've never heard of pitch fork review can you is this review like isn't sin is more parody than it is review i don't know anymore i think that they still have to be because they say they get things wrong intentionally well maybe but they say they get things right intentionally too and then they're wrong so like i feel like that has to i don't like the uh the whole power like they make real criticisms in there so i think i think it's fair to throw them in the mix well i would also say that it's a great standard to have though it's like if i get this wrong then i'm joking yeah exactly you know and that's it it's on you to determine really is it's in the audience's imagination whether i'm right or not but if i'm wrong then it's deliberate and if i'm right then it's also deliberate it's uh it's what's known as bullshit well i guess the thing that's worthwhile putting it there maybe is representative of even if it's parody it would count as among all of the people who are doing the thing there are there are certainly people who would view cinema sins as like a source for understanding whether a film is good or bad there are some of those people out there i would call it more so feel comfortable calling it commentary than review but i'm not gonna die on this hill it's um i can see what you get now it's just that like yeah those words could be swapped out so easily in the average sentence that it would only be relevant to distinguish them if we were having a full-on conversation about it which we will be today i suppose oh but we'll let this lad take it away first there are a lot of critics in the world and i'm not talking about just one kind of critic you go film critics music critics food critics game critics car critics spicy chicken why wait wait wait why why do you that was the friendly jordy's parody thing in there i guess that's meant to be a joke well especially what was spicy chicken review here i suppose i supposed to split like you know we got everything we got all the things looks like the kind of guy here reviews spicy chicken i think he's i don't have to say i trust him he probably knows the best spicy chicken he's missing a very specific feature to be reviewing chicken he's not what are we going right it's okay to make those kinds of jokes here i just didn't know if that's where we're going it's on the punchline hits harder when i don't say it oh oh tell them about the fact that he's american and they don't know their ignorance because he's not french so he can't be a proper food critic is what you mean yeah i'm the french known for spicy chicken mm-hmm they love it put it in there little to get whatever critics hell you've even got critics of critics and then critics of those critics of critics hey that's a legend shout out also gameplay as university that's not mark brown right that's someone else because he does he does game gameplay as university so is that like the university where you learn how to play video games rather than make them well we're going to need that for a lot of gyros these days okay for you like it's an important element i did talk a harshly cuphead thing still oh god does that make it would be to be like we need you we're going to pay for it we need you to go through this university course about playing video games and like lesson what is literally pong and they're like you've got a paddle in front of you everybody just push forward pull back or i mean oh we're going to get to the point where you have it's like the vghs right of like university for competitive video games like to get to e-sports or something well that would be interesting like you know you can ask marx if you're able to beat like i don't know what's like a really hard campaign maybe world at war on veteran you can do that or veteran yeah that'd be that'd be a big challenge or you know like the exam is uh you know you can show evidence of it but you have to complete like one of the missions in the university that and we have to be done within two hours or whatever i'm like understanding of the mechanics you know like a like an actual quiz on the understanding of the mechanics and how they work down like what is the maximum amount of grenades the ai can throw at you during world at war on veteran difficulty and you there's like the options are like five ten fifteen at infinite and you just choose it because that's the truth remember kids a degree is like real life gamer score as is like getting married and taking baths just imagine all like gamers you know that's happened there's a nude out there that got married and you said achievement unlocked after it the wife is probably like oh honey don't say that no degrees that doesn't mean degrees are useless sometimes people are impressed by them but what exactly makes a critic a critic why do we have so many of them and more importantly what should make them good at their job this is a fair foundation to start with but i think you should probably cut to the chase immediately and say that basically everybody is and they are automatically part of judgment we all judge all the time about everything that we categorize and we make our lives better you know is like what makes a critic and why are there so many of them it's just like oh it's just like a basic function but given a professional level i i think i think i agree that that's probably something to like but i think people would like that would be kind of contentious even though i i don't think it should be i feel like there's a certain like the the idea of criticism that you bake into your own process for instance of making something i don't i don't know that that would be what people colloquially think of when they think of criticism they are thinking of like the movie critic guy right well no but he asked why why why is this happening why do people do it and it's like oh that's just a part of a basic function that we do anyway yeah i think i missed that i know yes what is a critic yeah he said why are there so many and i'm saying that it's just everyone does it all the time on a lesser not necessarily a lesser format but a simplistic format or one that's not meant for consumption by the people necessarily could just be for you that's why i said that uh you know this doesn't include professional levels where it starts to get to a point where you need to standardize things you need to have consistent methods and presentation of formats and reputation and industry there's all these things that come with it but you know like why does anyone end up in those roles is like well in a way the simplistic format we're all ready all there from the get go we're always judging and categorizing things uh this is something we do this piece of this is weak is the acting and nowhere near as hammy actually a pretty good line from home dad that's so mean the other critics told me to be mean and you should always give in to peer pressure yeah just be careful of copyright of course and yeah this is a very true fact from homer always give in but what if someone bad tells me always is there any real value to them or are most of them just narcissistic super cynical people who criticize absolutely every little detail there is just for the sake of nitpicking well maybe some are but let's start with what makes a critic and don't worry i'll bring in ready to be soon enough and explain why it's important to this whole idea um i guess he just presented like the opposite end of the unrealistic or the uh extreme section right being like critics suck they're already there to ruin everything like no obviously not but probably awesome i guess there are people out there who would accuse us of being um like solely invested all we do is nitpick all we do blah blah blah obviously the the counters of that at least the simplistic one would be like what do you call it then when we like appreciate tiny things in a good way like what is that you know it's like the desperate desire to get credit for that no and it's interesting i think a lot of people do it but it often doesn't get remembered small praise but you know small criticism does because it's such an intuitive and easy thing to say right it's like oh you fucking you're just going for something tiny it doesn't really matter you're just trying to be mean nitpick indeed i'm still waiting for him like to fully define critic because like malo was saying like pretty much everyone is a critic and that's we have reasons for wanting things to be better like that's where critiquing comes from we want things to improve well i guess criticism is sort of like uh like in a way an often necessary force to having things improve because a lot of things just won't get better if no one's there to you know criticize it kind of push it forwards a bit first you know something's bad if no one tells you like and you think it's good um yeah this all more than likely come up as soon as he starts getting into more detail but it seems like the reason he started with this is just like it's almost like a reflexive reaction to too much criticism is like you're all mean then he's like well maybe it's something else just like okay what's the what's the reasonable take in my opinion to be a critic you must be a person with judgment you have to have the ability to judge the merit of something and from there determine its value it's someone who determines if you're looking at a priceless artifact or just a worthless piece of junk it is a characteristic that sounds inherently harsh on the surface because well no one wants to be seen as judgmental even one of my favorite tv show i feel like the action of judging and being judgmental a bit different like when people call you judgmental i assume they're saying it's like a negative aspect of being judgy as opposed to just judging things in general like if you're judgmental you judge too much yes or judge in a way that's very because i don't judge judge well yeah nobody nobody would say that somebody is judgmental if they're like the helpful tutor who gives very constructive criticism levied in a in an incredibly like kind way yeah there are contexts where like all trying to help them improve saying a factor like a judge yes in a factory you have to knock out like defective parts that are going on a little conveyor belt nobody's going to call you judgmental but you are doing a lot of judgment at that point what's really like it's soup i'm like well you're being awfully judgmental aren't you yeah exactly what about like a courtroom would you call a judge judgmental i guess wow you're being awfully judgmental yeah yeah i guess i'm paying to tell you're right i don't want to do this anymore like first off yes i am and also you're still guilty so it doesn't matter anything i'm actually curious because i always feel like judgmental has a negative connotation going beyond um judging things so what is it defined as i would say that morally right yeah so the primary definition is just concerning the use of judgment but the the second definition is having or just playing an overly critical point of view um i would still say that like how it use people use it colloquially is usually like you're judging things in a way that is not either healthy or useful or you're being condescending a lot that's probably a big part of it it was a better way of encapsulating somebody being judgmental is they are too often vocalizing their judgment because like you guys were saying everybody judges pretty much everything and things that they come across yeah yeah but they don't always they keep to themselves i think most of the time even one of my favorite tv shows of late called ted lasso preaches this mantra of being curious and not judgmental you know they thought they had everything all figured out and so they judged everything and they i'm gonna copyright cover actually because i'm not fully trusting this visual editing i'm worried about yeah judged everyone and i realized that they're under that's that's indeed him yeah that's bomb voyage you can tell by the chin who i was had nothing to do with it so maybe this is why we look towards others for guidance as we would rather let someone else take this burden of being judge jury and executioner i uh i don't i'm not going to say that that's not a thing but i've always assumed a simple simple simple answer is just time saving we rely on people whose job it is to get us the stuff we need quickly in terms of good food having no information you have some amount of information to make a choice with when yeah if you're you don't have time to look into it there are people who are so busy with hobbies careers friends family life and stuff that when they sit down to like i want to watch a movie they don't want to you can't you can't have the life experience of a person who's reviewing movies every single day just for nothing but you technically in a way can when you're like hey person who's done that what should i watch and then like i recommend this you're like okay i'm watch it and especially if it's reliable if you like everything they recommend it's like at that point why would you need to become you know like super familiar with all the film to properly like directors writers or histories with different industries and production companies it's just like no no no i'm just gonna get this person to tell me where to go and what to do i don't know the you know it's just kind of the same as a friend recommending a movie it's like yeah all right well i like my friend and i like their perspective so i'll check it out i don't think i don't think people are listening to i don't think people are listening to are reading siskal and ebert going oh thank god you guys will take the burden of being judgy yeah with me i'm only going to see one movie this month or something so like what are the good ones i found in my life like people are more than willing to admit when they're like against the grain in terms of like if group people like i fucking love uh lord the rings if there's that one person is like i don't know i don't know i thought it was fine i guess like i don't typically see them being like i'm not gonna say anything because i wouldn't want to be the person seen as judgmental because i i'm going with what he seems to have defined it as which is um because it's funny if you praise a movie are you being judgmental we kind of went over this but i just know it's the same as like the term opinionated people don't often say you're opinionated when you give very positive opinions about only when they're negative nobody nobody's particularly fussed if you're positive about something for the most part yeah it's i i i think if you're constantly voicing even positive opinions about things somebody might call you opinionated you know but no one would ever call you judgmental i don't think right which is interesting to think about even though you are always judging but maybe it goes into the condescension part that i'd mentioned it has that uh he just seems negatively it's like oh yeah that's beneath me i'm i'm better than it potentially people might get that attitude think of the times where a new film comes out we kind of straight from this topic but i want to circle back to it before i forget the essence of community is uh others doing things that you don't want to do and you compensate them for it so with people who do uh criticizing professionally uh they are usually incentivized to do so and the people who want them to do it usually incentivize them to do it so they themselves don't have to i don't know if it's always that they themselves don't have to but quite often you'll get people who actually they are judging on their own so anyone who goes to a cinema watches something and they will be judging it all the way through and they might have somewhere deep down this sense that actually the thing isn't very good but they can't quite put their finger on why and then the critic fulfills the function of that sort of always felt less a well expressed thing and that the critic actually puts into words things that they've not necessarily sat down and and put into sentences but they have definitely felt there is something wrong there and uh this is going to get super complicated if we actually include the part that does happen which is judging the critics judgments as a judging viewer like when you have let's say 10 recommendations from person and they're all great and then the next five are all awful but they highly recommend them your first be like wow this person just nails it they know exactly what they're doing and then the next five they're like well this person's kind of fallen off i don't know if they know what they're talking about anymore and what was that all based on it's like well it's actually your own judgment at that point of the films which is right interesting to think about because yeah like the realities were all constantly judgmental by the definition of we're judging shit a lot it's like yeah it's always happening yeah the taking off of the burden of like judgment is weird that point that he's making like platoon was saying i don't think anyone does that yeah if i listen to a critic about a movie it's usually just about like do i want to spend the money to go into the theater to actually watch this thing and then when i do then i'm judging it i'm figuring out that i think it's good or bad yeah you'll form your own opinion and that might be one that differs from the critic it's not like you the critic says that the film is good and that you watch it it's like the only reason i'm here is to i guess spend time to then leave and wholesale agree with what the critic said that's just kind of strange yeah usually our first instinct is to turn to sites like rotten tomatoes to give us a lowdown on what other recognized critics are saying about the movie so i gotta say i gotta say like to be absolutely not and basically never i don't think i ever at a point in my life was like i gotta go check out the rotten tomatoes but i accept that people do this i suppose there's actually a study i saw in a recent article that came out about rotten tomatoes and apparently a third of adults i don't know if they surveyed internationally or whether it was just america but a third of adults said they checked rotten tomatoes before deciding to go see a movie i don't know if it's up or down from previous years but it's roughly a third of people who do well i suppose the interesting thing though is that highlighting the part where people look at the you know what the actual critics said i'm like i wonder how many fewer people do that then just look at the number score of even just looking at the the excerpt that rotten tomatoes picks let alone reading the review and then of course rotten tomatoes is an aggregate i like a lot less than metacritic i just feel like metacritic is a way better aggregate than rotten tomatoes because rotten tomatoes yeah positive means a six out of ten or above so if a film gets like it you know a 90 on rotten tomatoes it just means 90 of the reviews gave it a six out of ten or a bug but like they could have all been a six out of ten compared to you know metacritic over the whole maintaining a 100 record is much easier you know on this site can be to basically any other one oh well i guess what i would point to is that a lot of marvel films have really good rotten tomato scores because they just get but but like the actual number score that they're getting is like i think that some people don't know how the aggregate works and that when they see a 90 they think that it's like reflective of like a scoring system but it's not i'm not sure how many people do that but i don't know how many people fully understand how the system works i wonder about a phenomenon of like go to rotten tomatoes and you're like oh i'll captain marvel uh 96 percent or whatever like sure and you go see it and you're like well that was shit and then go back to doing your dailies or whatever just live in your life and then you're like oh oh and man it's coming out oh it was rotten tomatoes oh 96 percent oh yeah i'll go see it um basically this this repeating process and you never sort of draw back like oh yeah why the fuck am i looking over on tomatoes like they almost forgot why they were uh boosted to go see it by the time they finished it and then just like well that was a film and it wasn't good anyway yeah people need to be more attentive to the amount of people reviewing something that contributes to that score like if it's just like two people reviewing a movie that that could get a hundred percent of both those reviews are well not positive but the only reason i'm going to rotten tomatoes nowadays is to specifically to check the ratio between audience and critic yeah that's the only thing that's really interesting about it it's the only reason i go there yeah right yeah and and you'd think maybe with the current results for superhero stuff that wouldn't be reflective of rotten tomatoes engagement from people but it'd be reflective that people aren't uh encouraged to go and see those films by rotten tomatoes anymore unless all of the scores lately for something like um i don't know like ant man i didn't check the rotten tomatoes man was like i think ant man was something like 55 or 56 so it was rotten which uh not many marvel films are because remember that was that eternal was like the first one that uh got below six which is insane because that one was made by an artist well that one kind of crippled that movie i think i think like that that one was actually something that did like cause that film problems because there was a perception around that film and the film sucks but like it's not it's no more like distinctly awful than any other film that came out in phase four honestly but like that's definitely a perception that it is it's good old sludge um but it's it's like it was sold as though it was supposed to be special or different it was definitely being hyped up as like ah this is yeah this is like a real movie movie we want to know first and foremost if it's good and worth our time after all someone else might have more experience with these things and can determine as well as articulate better why something is of value thus usually leave that power to someone else's hands before then copying their thoughts and making it at our own opinion uh there's something you can do you had me until that last yeah it's not that they necessarily copy their thoughts it's just like oh nice that it's good i'll give it a shot and see if i like it so the interesting thing here is he presented that as a noble and almost like wholesome activity while i'm like i agree with you it's it's terrible like you'd be like wait what i'd be like oh you know the when people watch a review they just copy it into their brain they don't think about it they don't incorporate it because i'm totally fine with someone saying you know um i watched your review and i like i totally i started to share with friends like the the whole thing about this particular scene i completely agree with you and and you know what else i think if someone you missed is actually that if you think about this this this from this and it's like oh shit they've really like they listened to it changed their mind and now they've incorporated and blah blah as opposed to you repeat the criticism because you heard it and you're just like that's gotta be true and then someone else is like well wait what about this and then they just like a stone face like oh shit uh i didn't think about that and it's like yeah because you didn't think about it at all you've just copied which sucks yeah and that's literally like that mpc meme where he opens up his head and he just clicks in like a data card yeah and then he has angry eyebrows like nobody wants to be that guy like you want to think for yourself don't you absolutely stuff like that does happen but to like make that assumption is a pretty poor faith norm which i wonder if this is like a poor weird thing because he seemed to present this as though that's like the normal and good process of reviews when i would say that the primary use of let's take drinker as an example from what i gather from his audience is that they want to see and review most of the new and big things that come out just to know whether or not they should give it their time not whether or not necessarily to copy his opinion of the film like that i would assume that the point he was going on to make would be a nasty mean negative one is there's the usual sort of brainwashing the sheeple type of argument that always make of the media that you see it in newspapers all the time is that you only think the way you do because of the evil right wing press as opposed to the right wing press actually just gives people what they want to what they already think because that's profitable because the audience already believes what they're hearing and they usually if you hear someone say well you just take someone's opinions and power it as your own it's a lead into saying and that is why there's a whole brainwashed mass of the fan base that doesn't like i don't know TLJ or any given film which has sort of polarised its audience which i would be interesting example because that that got great reviews from like like i'm pretty sure the rots about us go for that film is quite high it was like the fan discussion right around that film there was way more polarised i would be willing to believe that this point was meant to be a joke but he just had bad tone with it because the way he with the diction it could be seen as that it's just the tone is off well i'll roll it again i thought that he was saying this is the normal and good process experience with these things and can determine as well as articulate better why something is of value thus we usually leave that power to someone else's hands before then copying their thoughts and making it at our own opinion but is that all a critic should be to merely point others towards the direction of what is good and laugh at what is bad merely point the direction of stuff that's good and laugh at what is bad it's kind of a weird thing because in a sense you could probably categorize everything a critic's even able to do is one of those two things in a sense very broadly you're being reductive yeah like well i wouldn't even if he wants to try and if i said either i'm praising something or i'm criticizing something that's covered the vast majority of my statements i'm trying to think of what ones wouldn't apply to that i think he's made a distinction between criticizing something and laughing at what is bad as a sort of like implication that what negative critique is is mockery or condescension which is valid and an art form rather than you know like that's all negative criticism can be or is you know because sometimes well often from the um this could be better this could be better yeah yeah i would like it to be better you know that sort of thing as you would have gathered from the title already uh this this video's got an issue with the negative side of criticism they always do but you know so we're probably gonna be fighting for that team because it's always the underdog in these discussions because it's so intuitive to be like don't be negative stop it but in finesse he said over criticism so also someone in chat just said uh cinema wins has just released his puss in boots the last wish video so it looks like that episode is back on the menu boys here we go we got the cinema wins versus sins round two that's going to be fun uh we'll set that up don't you worry could separating out the good from the bad be just one half of the story once separating the good from bad is one half of the story what was the other half be under speculation right now so i do like that he said that rather than what he said before because before he said point to the good and laugh at the bad which if you're laughing at the bad you're also pointing at the bad him specifically saying laugh at the bad seems very manipulative saying that you're separating the good and the bad is a much better way of phrasing criticism although i think it's there's more to it than that i'm going to sign post this rephrase though isn't it i mean all these saying is well yeah pointing out the good and laugh at the bad is still just saying you're separating the good from the bad i would assume the other half and the most important half would be you're then going on to explain why that separation is what it is i was going to push it good what makes it bad i was going to push even further than that that's what i was going to say i'm going to sign post this because we're probably going to end up talking about it several times as this video goes on but the nature of pointing out something is good you've already pointed out something is bad even if you don't realize it yes that's why i'm like why did he say laughing at what is bad because you're also pointing at what is bad as well when you do that yeah when you say it just well to be super simplistic about it you're like you know i loved what ian mckellon's performance is that he really captured this wise old man sort of thing in in gandalf and you're like oh so you're saying that if he hadn't done that it would have been either neutral or bad and it's like well yeah i guess so if you if you played it super young and spryling and idiotic that might have been at odds with gandalf's role in that world so sure yeah i've created a scale by praising something in a sense by an equal opposite exactly you know it can mean a lot of things but you have you you can't have good without bad we've gone over this before and a lot of people seem to not appreciate it um every time you praise a thing for a connective tissue you're automatically implying that a lack of connectivity would be a flaw or a neutral it's you know something has got to happen there inside our more complicated coin enter the mise-en-scene with pixar's glorious film ratatouille and look at him go with fizz herbs and his spices on the pot oh wow it looks so tasty it's so good a rat cooking food oh it's so good look at him go prepo pesteresto all right i reject this premise uh don't you get all of you worry you got to listen and watch that scene in fall for the efab fans are just muted so we're all good oh okay i got to it's fair in my view ratatouille presents an interesting case about criticism that peels back more layers on what makes a good critic and what should be their most honorable goal to aspire for um before we let him give his take what would you guys say ratatouille has to say about criticism of odd whoa don't all talk at once right well i i'm just pausing to think you know just getting my thoughts in order um complexity to it which is that is the big message of the movie and it spent a lot of time making sure the diction was correct so we don't want to you know mess it up with our diction that's my excuse i will anyway i just oh my goodness there i go with my dick and okay also can i just say i love his uh his skull type right skull type right so great yeah it's no i'm in hotep but it's pretty good back i can show the old efab people probably there you go beautiful yum let me see i think that what it's really or a big part of what it's trying to say is not just in addressing the people whose work is criticized uh criticized but to the people who do the criticism uh not to get to i guess full of yourself not to think that you're necessarily better than the thing that you are criticizing that it takes a lot of you know work and effort to and there's a lot of uh value in the things that are being criticized even if they're not all that good and in a way i agree and in a way i disagree um i don't think that i i i don't criticism is a is an art form in and of itself it is a difficult task it's not something everyone can do in fact i think a lot of people do it very poorly i think to do criticism well it does take a familiarity and a skill and the ability to be eloquent and to communicate well your ideas to people and to be able to criticize well it it's just a skill set that not a lot of people really have um and that shouldn't be undervalued a good critic is of incredible value to the people around them and you know all of us um just to follow on from that i think uh for the most part the core of what the movie saying about criticism i agree with but there's a couple things that ego says at the very end uh when he sort of summarized when he writes his review the change is everything at the end of the movie um he says something to the effect that negative criticism doesn't risk anything but like going out on a limb to defend something that you think is good that other people that's new or original like that's risky and you actually have to put something of yourself on the line i don't agree with that neither do i i think a lot of people in this call have experienced the risk you take by criticizing things that everyone's absolutely yeah that's the weird thing about that statement is there's an obvious equal opposite i don't know why when writing it they wouldn't have spotted that like it's risky to say that something is good when it's untested and unfamiliar with an audience or whatever it's like the implication you're giving is that the audience are automatically poised against it and that you have to stand up for and it's like so what would the equal opposite be to stand against something when everyone stands up for it right and it's like that would be a risky thing to do and of course Anton's whole reputation in this film is that he's basically an asshole to everybody like uh he can destroy everything with a look at the pen sort of thing in the same vein as the character in uh birdman the myself ringing rags watched semi recently as well that's right yeah and birdman had similar things to say a similar perspective and i was surprised when we were watching that i think it's it would be nice to have a movie that would have a character that could push back on that sentiment because it's so widely accepted and it's kind of boring at this point like a critic never risks anything and a critic is an autistic um mean while the artist is and it's like that's lame yeah just to find the truth in the middle i mean it seems like you know not to put to find a point on it but his problem is his ego not that he's critical you know because clearly criticism and um gatekeeping is how you get five star restaurants you know it's seen as something it's seen as a bad thing in the film that they've been demoted to three stars because clearly they deserve more and it's like well criticism is how you credential places you know well let me see if well didn't you change my mind on this or not any of you here um i might pause it that there's nothing wrong with anton's behavior throughout the whole film uh which one is that the head chef i would anton ego the critic ego okay yeah i think i think i um i think that he has an attitude where he's being negatively biased towards gustos i don't think there's anything wrong with that the problem the movie no i think the negative biases can develop for good reason the problem that the movie says that he has is that he's not he doesn't believe uh anything new is out there to experience the the big thing about his uh his final speech is that he is willing to admit that greatness can come from unexpected places and he's not just talking about a rat cooking him food uh he's talking about an unusual experience can take him to someplace he didn't think of before the ratatouille brought him feelings of nostalgia that he hadn't contemplated in years and that fascinated him um and that was part of it and that's why he ends with saying he's going to return to gustos hungry not just for the food he just says hungry but he's not just hungry for the food he's hungry for a new experience the problem the movie has with him is that he's not hungry for new experiences yeah and then so the problem then with with him is not necessarily that he's rendering judgments or that he's a critic his problem is that he has a great deal of power but he also has an immense amount of prejudice and you combine the power and the prejudice and the critic effectively starts ruling out the very prospect of something good and new in the world because it's self-fulfilling you have the power your words have the power to put everybody off you can destroy a restaurant even if you you don't really give a damn about it you might never try some of the dishes they have on offer but you have the power to shut them down because you've already convinced yourself that you're right and so in that sense he's failing as a critic it's not that he's a critic that makes him bad it's just that he's not doing it see i disagree because i feel like he did everything correctly he did have a huge negative bias and yet he still give them a chance and he liked the food so much he praised it before even knew who cooked it and after he knew he still praised it um i wonder if there is a relating to his attitudes towards chef gustos and the anyone can cook idea if he was repulsed by that idea that idea and that gave him a negative bias that wasn't fair yeah but i don't but this is kind of what i'm getting at i have a negative bias i assume most people here do to the next thing that disney put out in relation to marvel or star wars but we still give it the chance and then we'll praise it if it's good which has been evident by things in the past like andor um i feel like that's kind of what he's doing he's presented as very uh cruel and doc and spooky and shop but like i don't really take that much of an issue with much of his actions but part of it you still like but you still acknowledge that disney could do something good as does he no that that's what i'm saying he wasn't willing to acknowledge that something new and good could come to him when he when he goes up against uh linguini he was very overly pompous about surprise me you won't um i'm not sure how i feel about that necessarily because if for example i could be court saying something like that about feloni but i'll still give his work at shads every time assuming it's you know there's this decent reason to i'm not i wouldn't be doing it if you like made a thousand tv shows i'd be like okay i'm not watching all that um the the hyper negative bias and the closing off from new experiences i can't quite buy it because he does engage in a new experience and then he does praise it like it's i feel like it's hard to maintain that that's his attitude when we clearly see him not do that action speak louder than words is what you're saying yes yeah because it's not like he pretends to have hated it just so he can save his reputation or anything like that you know but the one thing i will say is that he does have an air of like my word is gospel i am the king critic i am the one who decides who was good and who's bad in this town my opinion is the one yeah like i guess i'm not saying that he's perfect or even good i'm putting more so in neutral and that there's some things some attitudes i'd be like you could use a little bit of work on that but i mean whatever it's a lot of people have these attitudes about different things he is valued as one of the greatest critics of all time more than likely because i'm saying this almost i feel in opposite to what the film has to say that he's very good at his job in the sense of like an artist like he knows exactly how to best express his own perspectives while also combining his knowledge of how food is made and how it's supposed to taste or at least uh something that a lot of people can empathize with in terms of taste and like this is not something that's arbitrary or um superfluous he's he's he's really worked at it and then he puts that standard to the test of a place where he believes it would never you know reach a high level but it does and he acknowledges that like it you know it's interesting i know too i can see what you mean i think that the i the least the takeaway that i got from him is that i think that there is a general attitude about food that is in opposition to how gustow felt about food and where it can come from and that sort of paints him in a kind of uh that sort of sets him up i think unfairly to do things so i think his actions what i'd say the attitude of the film overall is very very very pro creativity as i uh as i think it's throughout the film like the advocacy for the creation of the new new experiences um and and it's it's part of anton's speech right when he says that the critic puts themselves out there for judgment in defense of the new it's like the critic is valuable in the lens of um enabling new creation i think that's like that's one of the statements of the film in terms of the purpose and and value of criticism it's just kind of one-sided though one is because it it doesn't seem to acknowledge the creative aspect of criticism i yeah but that's it's kind of a not many things do that's the part that's like does kind of yeah i kind of agree not many things do that there's not an added because you know it points out right like oh you know because it's it's interesting that the part of the speech that is often much more remembered as is the that the uh average piece of junk is like more valuable than the review designating it so uh and then they forget about the second part about the the small positive um but like it's it's kind of interesting because um it doesn't really address the fact that people i mean that said and people agree with that but people still like and value like criticism including negative criticism yeah um like you highlight in like something that they consume and enjoy as like a creation of itself right yeah like anton's in his position because of everyone else they see his work and they're like this is good and relatable or understandable and what does it mean to say that the review the reviewer's fun to write and to read it's like so it's it entertaining it's enjoyable it's interesting it is consumed for to create some experience in the person who's reading us like that's uh you know that's that's what i was yeah i'm not even kidding that line from homer was a relatively artistic expression saying that um the soup is almost as bad as like the acting and not when anyone near is hammy or whatever like it's it's like ah you can read these things and be like huh you can be amused you can be invested you can be made angry because you love the restaurant or whatever it's like this is obviously an artistic expression happening uh from a critic to a reader but i think because of the fact that critics can be seen as like vultures or at least reliant on something else to exist that uh they're they're like you know it's a very common sentiment to sort of downtrodden them and uh the film it's also one of one of the only art forms because i'd agree that criticism is itself an art form but it is one of the the few art forms which does actually rest well at least a judgment of other art forms in the in the way that you can paint a painting with no real reference and no commentary on any painting or any work of fiction or anything that anyone else has created around you by nature a critic is commenting upon something somebody else has done it's kind of so yeah obviously if it goes to a negative criticism then it's intrinsically an attack in the way that many art forms don't replicate like literature can do it as well you do get sort of literary inserts and even film does it the winner is it the godzilla film where roger ebert's name is given to the the fat letter was mere the incompetent oh yeah uh cisco and ebert that film yeah yeah like like really is the one that has to do that as opposed to it being completely volitional i assume that nobody here disagrees with uh review and critique being art right we all agree that that's it's artistic to review to critique i would agree yep i just want to point out james more who who said in the chat that the irony is that the dish that won him over isn't a new dish at all it wasn't anything new or invented or innovative it was an old dish that reminded him of his childhood which is kind of an interesting tension that wasn't what the movie concludes after it like he rejected the idea that anybody can cook so it's not necessarily he's looking for a new art form he's rejecting initially that anyone is capable of producing even old art forms and then by the end of the film his art is essentially realized that's not so the movie sort of makes a point to to say that in defense of the new and innovative and yeah it's kind of the writer which comes in with the rat having cooked the food loving the food that's that's part of the reason why i like lump it in with luck because like why why did remi make ratatouille like they they don't ever say why he made it and i would have liked it if he like knew that ego came from an old place or something and i'm like um i was so it's it's what was pointed out right it's a peasants dish it's like it's kind of it feels poetic right that the rat would take something that is considered a low a relatively lowly kind of dish and then create something that's like beautiful there and then it's not a lot in reflory yeah remi's goal there is to be like we're gonna make the best foodies ever tasted and i'm gonna make it from one of the like least expected places least expected dishes yeah you don't want to give somebody like ant on a dish that's like flashy in any way right because like he'll immediately be like trying to impress me i would assume that i don't remember remi ever saying that well i just remember remi just making the dish i don't i don't need him to say it like i can understand why he presents the book and then she points that out and then he smiles it's like i think the film wants us to pick that up perfect yeah he's yeah and and and and how unexpected is that that you serve this highly feared uh critic of like a straightforward simple peasants dish what is someone in channel what if you serve like fried chicken from america well it worked because it was something different as i was saying in the film and they did that it would serve a similar point yeah in the menu no in this film what if it because it was different and it was fried chicken and he liked it but he didn't expect it oh do you mean like because of the fact that he it wouldn't have worked as well because he didn't have like a childhood memory of i'm saying like remi remi had uh we assume remi has this idea that he's that he's gonna that he's gonna do the movie doesn't tell us we assume that he has this idea and then in the movie the idea works and so we have to say well wow remi's idea that we assumed he had worked we could do that if we replaced ratatouille with fried chicken we could say well it was something different from a country he never been to he was expecting something new like we are interjecting the reason well so they have a character say that explicitly it is a peasants dish why do you think they had to say that and then he's yeah he could have said it's an american dish he could have and i would have told you that that would be the reason at that point i don't it to me it doesn't connect accurately as to do you think it was like random that she said it or no i don't think it's random i think uh i think ego has a pass that allows him to like this dish remi but isn't girl that the thing is is that it's it's ratatouille so it like he's in France it's a common like it's a common like it's not like an abnormal crazy kind of meal that could be made i could imagine that if he made another common dish in France that there could have been another childhood experience that anson had that that could have tapped into as well like it's not like ratatouille would be the only thing that could have done it it could have been something else i like i'm not sure what the i'm not sure what the criticism is look like i'm a little bit lost yeah and also this also ties back into the who who was the the chef chick tattoo was what was her name i forget her name but i know you're talking about yeah but uh one of the first things that she tells to uh linguine and by extension essentially remi about how to cook is you can't be like mommy when you're in the kitchen you have to be you know expeditious in a way you you've got to be quick you have to be efficient you can't cook it like mom used to cook but that's what that's foreshadowing yeah that's foreshadowing yeah but it doesn't go to remi's no no yeah no it i think a lot of it actually kind of does because it shows that there is this care and this sort of craftsmanship that's very um yeah remi sees it as like an alt work obviously is halcyonic a word but uh it's um but i do think that's relevant actually it is relevant i'm it foreshadows to the audience the direction that remi is supposed to be going remi doesn't take note of this though within the context of this character i don't even think that he would have needed to have heard that from her when we presented remi unlike several chefs and many artists in the industry this would be more so a point made in the menu i would argue lost the reason for making the the stuff in the first place see it as an art form take care much like a mother might for their child like the i'm pretty sure that's the aspect that they're saying reached anton it's not necessarily that it was even ratatouille the meal itself yeah remi's not about being efficient and expeditious he's about being creative and passionate i also don't think that the movie is suggesting that if it were any other dish that didn't happen to trigger one of anton's memories that he wouldn't have liked it and given it a good review yeah i don't think so i think it could have it could have it may well have been that it was ratatouille like it could have been something else and then it still triggered that memory because it reminds me of that experience yeah it's a food made with extreme care and artistic integrity that's what his praise of it is i don't think it relies on the luck of having guessed the exact dish no i don't know it's like i said it doesn't matter about the dish it was remi's reasoning that i don't think the film presents well i think the the film expects you to understand without remi going through the process of understanding i think that yeah that seems like like seeing how the whole thing not a criticism to me yeah like when you watch how the whole film plays out and then remi the rat decides to cook ratatouille for the uh for the the feared revered uh critic to present something that is considered simple and um not like this luxurious thing like that there's so much there that lines up um in terms of like a rationale that i don't need him to explain like it it just follows i prefer he doesn't need him to explain it i need him to go through the process of figuring it out in the mood the information was given to you if you don't understand when when did you think he didn't make food that way the information was given to me yes i figured it out i needed ready to figure it out when it was also in the room when did when when did remi not do it when did when in the film did remi make food in a non-creative spiritual integrity way not that he made food in a spiritual not a blah blah blah way it's that he knew that's what ego wanted that's not what happened it's not that he chose the perfect dish by luck okay it's the way that remi cooked specifically we're going through the cards of the recipe box it's not yeah okay he chose ratatouille has a meaning beyond remi and anton in terms of what the film's getting at but anton as we've said his results with the food is all because of the way remi cooks not because it was ratatouille specifically i think from the beginning of the movie it's set up that remi is incredibly intuitive with food what goes with what and then i think he can look at a person like anton and decide and like you know what i've he's the type of guy where i'm going to give him a simple dish done incredibly well i feel like he would really appreciate that and i don't need a line of dialogue remi making that explicit like it just it makes sense to me that he would just come to that conclusion you know and you get a little bit of like what's her name collette yeah she says like it's a peasant dish are you sure you want to do this really and he any remi knots i guess yeah it's arguably a proof the what's important is the creativity and care you put into creation of food it doesn't matter whether or not it's whether or not it's a hamburger or a it's all those perceptions that are trying to be breached you know when you think about again the notion of anybody can cook trying to get past those preconceptions to get to like a more fundamental thing which is the experience that it provides the person okay uh i i think we should just move on because i just not like agreeing it's just clear like it's it's kind of clear i don't know man no i hear what you guys are saying and i agree that's what the movie is saying i'm not saying the movie isn't saying that i'm not saying that conclusion isn't bad i'm saying i just wanted a process of remi figuring that out he had that figured out from the it gives his character a reason to make ratatouille specifically or any peasant dish it doesn't have to be ratatouille it just gives his character the reason to do what they did what's the first thing he cooks in the whole movie that uh mushroom on a stick if i can remember yeah it's just it's just mushroom on a stick with like a bit of cheese he just wanted to put some saffron on it and he was just excited to make this little thing with some the cheese and mushroom yeah the humblest that was the point being that the same context of creation is what he used for anton's final meal as well so you're saying that remi specific uh passion his specific passion is what anton like uh for what it created yeah right food yeah it tasted good yeah that's that's the whole point of the movie right that you never expect a rat to be one of the greatest chefs of all time but remi's uh sort of investment in cooking and cookery as an art form is what led to great works of cooking and he also liked it before he knew any any of those other details it's just this tastes really good i agree i agree with that i it doesn't address my issue but i agree with that can i ask what your question what would you have liked to have seen like what what i would have liked remi to have said uh this one dialogue would have changed this for me i would have liked remi to have said uh when when he found out that uh gusto died just said saying something like oh this guy he's from such in such village and he's acting like he's all high and mighty or just something that acknowledges that remi knows that this guy can have can appreciate simple pleasures he doesn't uh he doesn't know anything about anton he's just gonna try his best i i know in the way the film is currently written he doesn't know anything about anton he's just trying his best and it works anton that's what i'm saying he assumes anton grew up in france he's using his creativity and his inspiration to try and make something that he think i would rather than that i think that the idea of like type of looking into like that that that would be even more and more reading into anton's past to almost like try to figure out the optimal strength you know i mean like it seems like i know what i mean yeah i think it would be your fundamental process like like i said i think the point is that he doesn't know anything about anton that's important that helps okay so just to move away from ratatouille let's say i don't know i was doing a guest video on one of y'all's channels if uh i could just do what i like and maybe your audience will like it you know maybe they will or i might know your audience and make something that they will like i i believe a big part of knowing your audience is a big part of uh creating art it doesn't have to go full that direction um i think i think that will be to convey a very different message than the one the film is trying to get across so from what i understand about the film is trying to get across the importance of art for art say creation for creation sake it's not yes am i doing something to please a specific yes yes it is yes it is yes it is yes it is and i don't necessarily have a problem with that it's just in context of the story it makes it more luck based that's all i'm saying i thought we already kind of established that it wasn't luck that he liked this dish is that it was well made you know he just picked a dish that he thought would be appropriate to serve him and he made it well so therefore it was good and he liked it i don't think it requires any sort of luck that he happened to like ratatouille if i make a video that i am passionate about and i give it to the wrong person they're not necessarily gonna like it no matter how much passion i put into it if you created a really good video but that was completely out of left field compared to your usual and then your audience adored it because of how good the video was that would be closer to what ratatouille is trying to say i'm sorry could you repeat that if your audience was used to let's say videos exclusively on minecraft and then you make a huge breakdown of game of thrones and they're like they adore it your channel like it's it blasts up and someone says like well you know that that wasn't exactly wise you didn't know what your audience is gonna like that based on minecraft it's like well yeah but it was a it was an excellent video that that's what the equivalent would be in that scenario i don't want to prolong this argument if people would rather move on but i would like to add something here that i think would help like after i had said what i'd said earlier somebody in the chat said what was the scene where remi analyzed anton and obviously there is in the scene where they directly interact at least not until the very end where the mouse or the rack gets revealed to anton but there is a scene uh where um what's his name linguine he's having there's like a publicity event he's getting pictures taken of him and that's when um anton walks in and they have this confrontation with with each other and remi is i think underneath linguine's hat which is just like on a table next to them and there's a shot dedicated to remi sort of looking back and forth between the two of them almost almost like it's a tennis match you know where he's kind of i think in that moment he's sizing up anton and in that scene anton has a line where he says uh linguine comes back with a cheeky line towards anton and anton says i don't like food i love it and i think that little beat there is enough for remi to go okay this guy loves food i believe what he says right now i believe his conviction and so based on that i can understand when he finally cooks the ratatouille dish it's like i'm going to give this guy a simple dish done excellently that's another way you could read it just following on from what you're saying is that everyone's been talking about this guy non-stop like leading up to the final moment where he makes the ratatouille everyone's been talking about him like he's a big scary elitist movie not movie a food critic guy and so his name is ego and everything he all he holds himself in very high regard so he's like oh okay he thinks he's all that i'll give him something very very simple you know there's something kind of poetic about that you know like right it could be that simple we just he doesn't say it out loud but it's totally reasonable to infer legitimate non-luck based motivations for what he chose ratatouille and it worked i just wanted to mention that scene because that there is a shot dedicated to i think remi really taking a moment to look to study anton like and just figure out what it is that makes him tick you know i could accept that scene means that i think it's a bit of a reach but i can accept it like and in all honesty like i kind of just want to move on from the subject but like that that's one of my big nitpicks of the film just just so you guys know all right then um if if if i can touch on like because your initial point mawler when you paused was uh what what do we like that that ratatouille says about criticism and i like the film's depiction of criticism the idea that critique is a sword uh that cuts both ways and like any weapon needs to be wielded carefully and anton does that and despite his care in wielding that sword he cuts himself terribly i mean he loses his job at the end um but it's in service of trying to bring the truth to people that this was an excellent dish and this is a guy that i think if he's guilty of anything i think he's become overly cynical because he's been bombarded by shit food constantly and there's a part of him this i mean he's dead inside right that's like a lot of the imagery in the movie is suggesting that the guy looks like dracula he's in like a coffin shaped office oh yeah he's like death yeah but i think uh the film would never deny i think i think the one you know when anton says i love food i don't think that the film wants you to think he's lying like he does love food oh yeah yeah i agree i love that it's it's not that there's there's something else that's kind of gone wrong uh somewhere else then you know something to do with his ego perhaps yeah how do i love i love the end when he's uh like when uh remy's revealed and he can tell like looking at anton he's he's horrified by what he's seeing like the the mice in the kitchen i mean he's i think he's genuinely appalled by it but like a proper critic should he is unflinchingly oh yeah that's definitely the allegory like the anton's done the above and beyond here and basically said your your art is so good that i'm going to put aside the fact that you're a rat for a second because that's tough uh i assume that we were talking about when we watched the film but i really appreciate the the chef's leaving because what the fuck the guy holds up around says he's my cook it's like okay but first of all i don't believe you but secondly thanks for just not treating this seriously at all thanks for ruining our careers yeah even if you did believe him like that's a huge insult to say you were taking all your ideas from something else like no matter what those chefs definitely should have walked out that that was just an insulting thing to do well and they certainly didn't he didn't do a good job of explaining absolutely anything as well like uh i don't that's what i'm saying it felt like a real scene as opposed to a more wholesome happy scene where things work out and that yeah i love i love that beat where all the chefs leave and it's so like against convention yeah less or less a lesser screenwriter would be like all the chefs are immediately on board right and it's like let's all work together but no they they behave accurately to the fact that the mice are in the kitchen it's disgusting and the chefs are just like no i'm sorry i love the sous chef who's just like about to cry and then he hangs up his apron like i'm sorry dude i can't do this no like i i love that i don't want to go to prison again it's a good goal to aspire for and that is to discover and defend the new this is different to just simply separating out the good from the bad because it's about finding something that's new and unorthodox and recommending it to others despite where it comes from i think i'd probably boil it down to an even more fundamental it's just pro creativity like pro creation the thing is this should normally talk about pro creation that's really it's just really good you're really evolving as a character this should necessarily be included under the umbrella of separating the bad from the good oh well yeah yeah i i guess it's um because now i'm guessing that the point of the video is going to be mainly about motive um because it's like because he's now saying that like it's not just about pointing to something saying good pointing something saying bad it's about finding the new and it's like oh well i was i thought we're already doing that when you point out good bad good bad good like that includes new old what i you know in this equivalent state it would be like i was watching the new marvel movie i was watching the stars movies like have you watched that new movie shot on that guy's phone who is 10 years old and it's like obviously fucking not and then this film could be like well i mean you know and then you know it may be and it's up to critics out there to maybe find out about those sorts of things and it's like well within reason but also i feel like they're doing that anyway um and i feel like this best represented in a way and maybe that's intentional by anton being that he believes nothing is going to be coming out of this restaurant but he tried it and then he was like holy shit it was you know like um those are the good forms and it's like so that's on good form but um yeah i feel like pointing out good and bad is a by-product of doing this anyway because i think all of us have recommended something that everyone else has been like what even is that it's like yeah i know more people should know about it to understand from a willingness for people to express their perspective both positive and negative on things someone able to happen um yeah because uh i was about to say what i always think about equal opposites and i'm like what about going out there to find very specific and niche bad things like is that considered a good or bad action on its own i don't know what if so what is uh horrifically uncreative in a way that nobody saw is that worth mentioning or using as part of a scale i don't know what defines a niche bad thing is it something good that you might think is bad or is it a bad thing that people just haven't discovered like that's kind of where i was going with that so the way he's saying like nobody would take this seriously and maybe haven't seen it maybe the movie equivalent is like i said that 10 year old on an iphone but it turns out he made like an amazing film let's say he made like the Blair Witch Project back then in that manner um and it's like no i'm gonna defend him and stand in front of everyone saying this 10 year old couldn't have made a good film he's like no he did and you know you need to check it out that sort of thing but equal opposites is it ever worthwhile to find something horrifically bad that no one cares about or saw to maybe have it be a point of like comparison i don't know because i'm trying to figure out whether or not it is a lopsided affair that there is times where just being critical rather than praise worthy is just something you shouldn't do because it always seems to be a fundamental point of view in these kinds of videos well there there are uh i've seen critics on youtube who will find very not known shows or cartoons and they'll be bad ones and they'll talk about them just as an example of what not to do in cartoon well usually just to bring some diversity to their channel but it acts as an example of what not to do in shows in general because um i think we're all aware of certain channels that will play like the newly listed steam games that are made by like one guy in 10 minutes and be like look how fucking awful this is and if someone's like well you're just being overly critical it's like well there's value to that there's they're creating art using what is essentially what they would say is a complete lack of creativity do you see what i'm saying like um the the thing itself the quote-unquote artwork was made with no soul maybe flipping assets and just done for money meanwhile the criticism that's made from that as a platform or a vehicle is creative does have integrity and you're trying to learn and create scales and you know praise things by comparison and so in a sense in that uh environment the more creative person i would assume would actually be the critic and there's the the corroborate point as well which i think probably would go back to the point and purpose of criticism is that if you don't even need necessarily to be using this thing sincerely as a point of say textual criticism literary criticism take something like velma for example which everyone knows is godawful and you only have to watch five minutes of it to know how godawful that show is that you can actually make a lot more people laugh you can actually bring a lot more entertainment to the world and velma itself does it's criticism hello hi hey there you're prepared for a second oh well i'm back oh he's saying he loves velma the last word i heard from little platoon was simp you literally cut out halfway through simp and all i hear is simp oh she's a simp for velma simping for velma i was saying i was saying that you can bring a lot more joy into the world that's what he said i i criticizing velma then velma itself has done and i think i would still class that as criticism so you don't even need to be textually breaking it down as a sincere act of art criticism an extension of criticism is also creating art out of the terrible and ripping on velma probably qualifies as that yeah and i actually feel like that is a uh lesser understood point of view and that it's become more and more it's easier to understand as time goes on because holy shit like youtube is filled with some of the greatest videos that are primarily criticism but also like super artistic and like entertaining comedic or tell stories you know um when you tell a story i assume people in the same vein as ratatouille be like that is an art form and it's like well what if that is told with the purpose of being critical of another story what does that mean what happens then because technically ratatouille is a film is critical of points of view is it not it is i mean yeah of course i think so absolutely and therefore of course one could qualify it as criticism but would obviously call it art first or rather creative expression in the form of animation well and you know what about uh parodies that are definitely making fun of specific conventions or tropes or even like very specific films well that's the funny thing uh if we had category one being artistic expression in the form of media versus uh criticism there there's like a strict line between it if you were forced to put these category like one of these things on categories like ratatouille is like well of course it wouldn't go to criticism parody it's like that probably i think most people would if they had to force between those two categories they put it in art before criticism even though it would absolutely qualify as both however a review like a written review of a film or you know a restaurant or whatever people be like well it's criticism obviously right i feel like uh people to appreciate the blurry line is actually super important in terms of how we categorize this stuff well i think like oh god i don't really i don't really see it so much as a line as much as criticism is a form of art it's inside that category well that's actually what i'm trying to get at is that i believe that what you've just said but i feel like society as a whole believes not that that the art and criticism is a distinct line between it and that's part of why i don't quite agree with ratatouille as a film is this final sentiment seems to place criticism as a lowly sort of profession that attaches itself to art which is um i just i just feel like it if there was a ratatouille too perhaps that film could then challenge that perspective and expand on it i don't i don't believe it's a it's an unfair point of view to come to i just feel like there's there's pieces there that are missing yeah it's one sided and i feel like what he's espousing the creator of this video right now is sort of biased towards uh like the novel and original and new in terms of creative expression i feel like the other side of this coin if you were to take a balanced view would be to defend or to um point out the value in praising things that aren't exactly new they're you know but they're well executed so stories that fall into very specific genres and tropes that we've seen before and people might go oh there's nothing new or original or original there meanwhile you could watch and be like oh this is actually really good and it's worth defending an example of this i feel would be relevant would be for j barman to lean from ratatouille that just because todd philips made joker does not mean joker is not a real film it's very true it's like don't be so harsh as to judge it just because it's the guy who made hangover so it's not going to be good which is weird by the way because hangover is pretty solid yeah when it came out and everybody was fucking talking about that movie it wouldn't shut up about hangover when that movie came out geez everyone was talking about did jay say that about joker like he just dismisses that movie because i think it was even worse than i think he said top films is not a real filmmaker yeah i mean that's the infamously bad takes from jay regarding uh regarding joker yeah i like jay but that's a rough one too they got some uh the red letter media guys have some interesting opinions yeah and what it accomplishes and ratatouille does this by contrasting two important characters whose personalities and dynamic explain why this goal is central to being a good critic on top of making the film so much more enjoyable too so uh just another thing sort of for the sake of conversation what makes a good critic uh i mean i would let everyone well fuck it i'll go first with this one i just like as far as i'm concerned integrity and that's about it just we say integrity what do you mean uh you know honest reflections of your interpretations of the thing that you're dealing with like stick to what you believe to be true and be honest uh i would uh i would say that in combination with being accurate about uh what it actually is you're doing i think those are like the the big two the winning combination there um if you have integrity and you're accurate uh that that think yeah you can't really go wrong and i would hold that communication like obviously right you know oh yeah oh yeah like the other skills necessary think of it as a tree i was trying to go for like what is right at the core foundation yeah and then because it'll it'll go all the way up to like maybe one of the distant parts of the branches is like make sure you actually check out things that are different from what you typically check out and it's like is that necessary it's like um no i guess if someone someone could exclusively watch marvel and star wars and that is absolutely it and still be what i could consider an excellent critic it's just that you know maybe they should for the sake of expanding just check out some other stuff i would argue the bear the extremely bare basics of the subject of what you're talking about so for example if you review movies uh you should know what a plot is and what a protagonist is um yeah plus what y'all said the integrity and honesty plus that you know like um if you take a guy who's never seen a film before in fact never even known what a story is you sit him down and have him watch the lord the rings trilogy is is it possible for him to be a good critic at that point when he reviews it so to speak i think yes i think yes as well i don't think you need to know about like what but for instance um you don't have to know necessarily what themes even really are you don't have to know what a protagonist is or an antagonist or um in anything like that obviously it helps and those are important things and they can help you to understand what it is that you're watching and consuming but i don't think you need it um i think if you have those baselines you could come up with a very interesting accurate and helpful perspective on a piece of media several people in chat said no he cannot be a good critic interesting because i was you can potentially harder uh given it would be more if you wouldn't say it's impossible but like so if it's taking i don't even know if it makes it harder um i think it would i mean if you're taking the extreme example of someone who's never seen or read any story ever and you sit them down in front of the lord of the rings a lot of criticism i think does rest on comparison like you have to know or you have to have seen examples of something that is good and something that is bad to make your own opinion of what is good and bad a bit more nuanced like to understand what the writer is going for what message they're trying to convey whether or not the plot actually hangs together are there better ways of conveying the same story that have been done elsewhere all of this stuff comparisons to do these are all options i think for an assessment but you could stick strictly to just a 10-minute review of the lord of rings trilogy talking about how you think that the film's broader points were about like unifying to defeat the greater evil that um you know redemption and sacrifice are important and that the this person this theoretical person who's only seen lord of rings the reference life and that's it they don't need to have seen other films so here's my question well life would be a uh a reference but here's my question then uh if if you have said person how can their opinion be objective if they have no standard why wouldn't they have a standard well if they have no reference you can have a standard um if you just watch a movie you could your first ever movie you watch you'll judge it yep based on what how much you liked it sure that's one standard what are they judging it by it could be could be that could be the say say they're watching your knowledge of how physics and causality work in the real world yeah that'd be the i think that's the primary way all of us judge stories so would would you knowing that uh accept that review yes accept it what do you mean accept because i'd say yes unless you have a strange way of saying accept what do you mean you would consider it a good review potentially it depends on the review yeah potentially if it's a good i would consider an uninformed review which to me i tend to lump them with a bad review well so it's all within scope because if his only things that he said was what he thought the meaning behind each of the arcs or the characters or the themes were and i thought that he actually had them nailed i wouldn't consider an uninformed review at that point it's a good one or that causality of events does or does not make sense as a self-contained yeah meanwhile you know if i had a little platoon type review that covered everything from the source material to every interview about it all the way over to the comments from different people across the years of review and how it's influenced everything i'd be like this is an incredibly thorough like huge scope review that's taken a hell of a lot of effort and insight i totally agree sometimes i still don't think that i would say that like little platoons in that case is the good one and the guy who's only seen lord the rings is the bad one i would be like no no they're both good there's just two scopes nothing about what's in the review would be negated by the fact he hadn't seen another film that isn't related to what he's reviewing yeah i stand on the merits of the argument it's just whether or not because i think we probably agree that it's possible to be a critic even if you've never read or seen any story except the Lord of the Rings supposed to be a critic um it's the likelihood of you being a good critic if i'm willing to admit the likelihood goes down less experience you have of course yeah yeah it's just the the question i had was like is it possible for it to be a good review a good critic and a lot of people said no so just absolutely not which i think is um i think you can have good opinions with that happening but i think it's more likely that's by chance than if you had experience i think even if you my chance but it could be through skill yeah always saying is that there's the potential there for a very insightful and strong review even if there's only one movie they've seen because remember that youtube is full of critics who do it for a living and they suck balls at it i was about to say and i think what i don't know if this is what you again earlier rags but when they haven't seen anyone's films or reviews prior they watch film for the first time you're gonna get some pure unfiltered thoughts that may actually have more integrity than your average reviewer in a way having all that stuff can be baggage yeah take for example like i'm very interested in the idea because you wonder what they say but to give a counter example and i bring it up all the time because it's just fascinating to me um chris duckman knew what Blade Runner meant to people he knew where it stood in society and culture so he watched it he had feelings he didn't really share them probably because he was like whoa these aren't the normal ones these aren't the ones everyone else has i want to keep watching it until i get the right ones you wouldn't have to worry about that with someone who does it the first time because they don't even know what is accepted or isn't they could come out being like Lord of the Rings was shit man too fucking long and you're like oh well yeah my mom did once have a boyfriend who said the Lord of the Rings was just people running and fighting and that was it yeah i encouraged her to ditch him very quickly they stood and talked they did stand at some points that's true um but yeah there was a meeting you'd uh you'd throw loads of criticism and you'd start talking about how they lack you know scales and perspective in order to make the criticism they're even making but you know likewise they could say some really insightful things based on the movie alone i i find it all fascinating because the nature of criticism is so like downstream i think of fundamental human action the um the main like seeming difference that i'm trying to find is mainly there's just like it goes from being normal to professional that's that's what makes you not a critic to critic almost but i mean people could even make a full hobby out of it so i don't even know that that's true like it doesn't have to be that it paid taking a different example just briefly because the Lord of the Rings is a good one but Lord of the Rings is so fundamentally rooted in in human action and belief and morality and things like that that it it's almost one of the easiest films to see if you've never seen a film before i guess if you're trying to like criticize it if you were to apply it to something more out there i don't like 2001 a space odyssey and you've never seen any film or read any story and you sat down and watched a film like that which is like conceptually very very different would you be able to criticize that in the same way is it well obviously not be the same way and that's kind of the another thing i think is missed by people who aren't as fond of criticism as an art form and a huge section of the industry is that there's a huge breadth of different kinds of approaches to criticism i remember um when i was doing my captain marvel review the vast majority of the reviews i watched weren't about the story they're mostly about brie lawson the matter of the film the fall of the mcu sort of thing and i was checking out loads of different people that i've never even seen before and i was just like man not many people talking about how bad the story is which is interesting because i will be and pretty much only be talking about the story because that's the part that i thought was so fucking horrendous and it's why that i you know i don't think anyone's actually truly invested in her as a character which is why the marvel's probably gonna fall apart but there's that approach because like if all seven of us were told to make a review of ratatouille for example it's going to be very different between the lot of us not only in like what we say or how we say or what we reference but also how we edit which um it's just it's a shame that criticism is seen as criticism and then the arts and even like cooking it's in and of itself is this enormous like crazy artistic thing that goes all over the place but criticism will never be given that point of view not yet not yet yeah maybe one day just to tie us back to the video um we're talking about what the fundamental of what a good critic would be and i just i would like to disagree with his implication that the fundamental essence of what a good critic does is discover and praise new things yeah i don't agree with that that's that's half the story and it's downstream or up branch from the more fundamental things that we talked about yeah i think um finding new things and praising them is a result of the more important parts of being a critic for sure i agree yeah i think there's i agree he does need to expand on this just a little bit i mean in defense of the new he seems to yeah boil down the form of a critic to just that and it's like well is the new any good like you don't want to defend something just because it's yeah but not to mention it's i would go back to it's a problem of possibly the word would be integrity you could choose something else but if you're saying this thing good this thing bad this thing good this thing bad that's what you've you've done he's saying yeah but you're missing out on the part where you you know find something new and celebrate and it's like i already did that when i said the second good that was a new thing why are you pretending like me saying this thing good this thing bad doesn't involve new things that's weird and at that point it's not about whether or not the thing is new it's whether or not i'm being honest if i come across a new thing and i like it but then i say like nothing about it because i'm worried what people will think it's like oh well that's just my integrity as a review is being in questions not about whether or not i'm praising you things yeah right i think we're in a very heavy newest good time and i think a lot of people fail to realize the fast different direct other directions you could go with new being bad old being good i mean yeah one of the reasons yeah pet was pray so much was because it went back and that's actually part of ratatouille you know it premy goes back yeah a lot of something forgotten a lot of writers want to create stories like they'll start with like oh the hero kills the dragon and saves the girls like that's boring let's make the girl kill the dragon and save the guy and it's like okay that's boring now let's make something even create the dragon kills the girl and the guy and then flies into space and you're like what what is happening anymore like the dragon a girl you've like you've tried to subvert and develop so far that you don't even know what the fundamentals of stories are anymore you've gone so far away like that's how i feel about um deconstructions they're very difficult to nail there's so much nuance to them and if you're just like all right i've been dropped on this very famous sci-fi fantasy show or series of movie sorry and i'm gonna take the protagonist of it who is known to be one of the greatest heroes in all of media and i'm gonna deconstruct him and and his like faction i'm just gonna do that because that's that's a pretty neat thing to do i feel like it's a cool idea on paper it's like okay that's an incredibly difficult thing a dangerous thing to do by the way like i don't know why nobody said like hey you should probably maybe not do that because the fans are probably not interested in seeing something like that at least not yet you want to want to give them what they're familiar with like maybe he kills a bunch of robots and turns up to save a baby that might be something that people would respond to more positively at least first so because someone just said i really hate deconstructions i love them when they're done well um just if you don't know a deconstruction would two things that count would be unforgiven in the last wish uh being put in boats both deconstructions of a famous like sort of well known not necessarily hero but certainly a very important character in a genre or a world um you've got it i think a lot of people would say like you've got to destroy and build at the same time with deconstructions um yeah it's like you're an engineer and somebody takes apart an engine like that would be fascinating right it's like okay that fits into here that's what does this okay you asked a few questions like for example with luke it would be like like with a jedi so great and what did you do uh that we didn't talk about in in the ot what did you do that had negative effects that we really don't try to talk about we want to avoid thinking about it and what built you as a person was it all positive experiences was it some negative did you learn things that weren't necessarily positive like there's loads of questions you can ask and explore but if you fumble it you could end up with something like i don't know that everyone despises and destroys an entire franchise maybe that could be like a potential no now imagine with the engine metaphor somebody says you know what nobody's ever used duct tape on an engine before but so let me just go ahead and try that i'm just gonna i'm just gonna do you didn't expect it yeah there's pieces of the car that are falling off i'm gonna dip the whole thing in a vat of glue and i'm just gonna that should probably keep it together now i never talked about how someone was a genius as a child because they took things apart and then didn't put them back together at the end watch the first character is remi our protagonist he is a lovable rat gifted with a good nose for good food and is driven by a passion to cook despite his limitations as a small rat and more drastically the fact that the cooking world is notoriously out to get his kind i don't know if they're out together they're just humans in general yeah noble reaction to rats as most even they just say go away from here please and yeah they're not like they don't hug rats or anything and the movie kind of goes into that rats are thieves they do things humans don't like it's a versus scenario rather than the chef world being out or the cooking world being out to get them yeah the movie acknowledges they take destroy and they're unclean typically and that remi is trying to uh sort of subvert that they're famously bringers of disease right and that doesn't just apply to chefs that's every there's a reason you shouldn't have a rat in a kitchen it's not just for memes it's not like we just hate rats or something right is this clip necessary i feel like it is i don't it doesn't seem necessary certainly not for this length this is a bad example because in this point you know he's trying to stop him not because he is a rat but because he is stolen documents that he's been trying to steal he just said the clip where uh linguine says or i'll treat you how how rats should be treated yeah that's the clip of you know demo trying to kill with you know remi the first time that they see him yeah that'd be another yeah you're right this is a very bad example yeah but the second character is remi's counterpart anton the food critic he is the man who represents the embodiment of all society's opposition towards remi achieving his dream of becoming a cook anton is the one i don't know about that no i do not because he doesn't anton doesn't spend like more than what like five minutes of the movie knowing that he's a rat and opposing him being a cook because he's a rat does he ever i mean to be fair he finds out he's a rat and then he thinks they're lying to him as is described and then he basically is sold he gets really quiet and sullen yeah he's not presumably because his whole world is changing but like yeah he definitely doesn't represent society because uh gustos was a popular restaurant until he said something different and then well let me get linguine are we talking about linguine being the exception because he is to humans that's what changes his like dad's mind in a way i mean he is like like a good person understands remi we're talking about whether anton represents remi not being allowed to be a chef no it's the opposite well okay wait right so society is trying to keep him from being a chef do you want to we can roll it back if you want to listen to what you said uh yeah please do maybe i just misunderstood or something but the second character is remi's counterpart anton the food critic he is the man who represents the embodiment of all society's opposition towards remi achieving his dream of becoming a cook anton is the one so another reason i'm thinking about it now i have to disagree it's uh i think the film's point is the way lucky people like anton exist because remi wouldn't have stood a chance otherwise like by the end yeah yeah because the thing about it is ratatouille is not a story about how anton finds out uh and isn't believed that the cook at gustos is a rat and that he tries to sabotage their reputation as much as he can in other ways because he couldn't possibly allow a rat to be a famous chef that's not the story of ratatouille it isn't skinner kind of more the embodiment that you could argue the skin is much closer to that yeah because he's he's mostly more of them you're trying to kill him because he's a rat at the end though uh doesn't he want to make use of remi like make him into a fast food a fast change eventually yeah so he acknowledges that remi could be a cook just he has to be uh he still thinks of him as a rat this film's depiction of antagonism is so interesting because like just going by visuals you would think that anton's the big bad but like he's really the saving grace of the whole thing yeah you you can call him an antagonistic force for sure he's he represents so much stress and like he can he can shut down and destroy restaurant he means his bad review gave uh gusto a heart attack right like arguably i'm not gonna say that he killed it but you know yeah that yeah yeah of course my suggestion isn't that he killed it of course um didn't they say like when you die it knocks off a star as well or something yeah they said that was like tradition or something like that one entrusted tone is the one entrusted by the people of france to determine what food is worth their time and what is just plain garbage and he often does so in a heavily critical manner and without any real remorse your remorse i wouldn't expect him to have remorse if he's being honest well so yeah this is the thing uh that would have to come in i guess if you thought something unfair happened as a result of your criticism but the thing is if a if a restaurant cooks something disgusting or wrong or bad or whatever and you give them a bad review and then they lose a star should you feel remorse or should you feel just as it's been done free star restaurants are still pretty nice like and they're they were clearly busy in the movie or over here well that's what i'm trying to say like i don't think there's anything in ratatouille like that he should necessarily maybe is he suggesting like as a result of goose toad having a heart attack that he should have felt some level of responsibility i think the word he should have used or was probably thinking of instead of remorse or something like sympathy or empathy because he's talking in general terms about his approach to reviews as opposed to like response to some bad at the consequence of a review that he gave um so he's not empathetic to the people he reviews he's quite you know he's very stern strict almost seems to revel in being cruel at times but that's kind of that's what you sort of have to do as a critic if you go in with an overabundance of sympathy and empathy then you're probably going to pull your punches and that's dishonest and disingenuous yeah people don't want that a lot of the time used to go to eat dinner or have tea with anyone whose book he was going to review that week because he knew he'd end up liking them and if he liked them his review would be worse so he just cut off all social anyone he was going to review never went to see them until the review was out and then if they still liked him after the fact then he thought they were probably pretty good people an ego you're slow for someone in the fast lane i love this line this line is great i'm pausing i love this yeah i'm pausing for copyright because i want people to hear that separate it up there we go and you're thin for someone who likes food what one of the best things about it is Anton looking like realizing like everyone thought that was a good bird damn they have no chance that whole moment it's just like perfectly done yeah yeah they didn't see that before food critic the grim eater the grim eater in the film he is essentially the grim raper of chefs and when we're introduced to him we can also see this being hinted towards with a nice visual image of his office chambers that look like a literal coffin the film also implies that for years on end Anton has tasted nothing but terrible dishes from sub-par chefs and because of that he has become incredibly cynical about tasting anything more so this is where i'm trying this kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier i'm starting to wonder whether or not i take issue with that if you you went to like every restaurant and you genuinely honestly believed that they were creating crap and then you started to become cynical that no one could create great works of food cooking art the worry i would have of course as everyone else would have is that you've become so biased you can't actually taste good food but we know that's not true because he adores ramy's work so the problem here i suppose is has all the food that he's been tasting lately been shit or not because this is something i'm also confused about because they they established that gusto made interesting food like he didn't just make fancy food he said add a little surprise to everything and it was gustos who ego tasted so i'm a little confused on it as well the thing about it is for me i'm not going to be too judgmental of anton if he has been served a bunch of shit food in a row and we're talking years in a row of course i think more any normal person would be like really you think that like nobody's serving good food in all of paris and you know like well then so we are supposed to assume then that he's been unfair is that the case i guess it seems to me that like he wants people to make absolutely excellent food and he feels like no one's doing that recently or anymore like no one which i think is valid the art form yeah um as a critics point of view if they if they if there's a person out there who said like they're only about five good films i'd be like okay i disagree but what are those those five and then he names like just five well-known best films of all time it's like uh i think that's too narrow or the scale is too lopsided but at the same time if you stick to it and you're fair to it and you you judge everything accordingly to the scale you've generated this is like i don't know i think that's that should be allowed to exist and that we shouldn't shame a person necessarily for that and he is a very very successful and influential food critic so there is clearly some level of value that people find in his perspective on food thus he has thrived of being able to give negative criticism and tasting even more bad dishes that just feed this cynical loop that he has throughout the course is it a cynical loop if it's true i don't think it's happening i don't think he hasn't tasted anything good in a while therefore he's more likely to taste bad things obviously the point that's being highlighted is like yeah but that's created a point of view that is now making him biased against all the food ahead of time and during whatever and the you needed something like ramy's food to actually break him out of this cycle like it was so good it stopped him from thinking everything was shit but the part that i'm a little lost on is like well but seems to me that the integrity wasn't in question at all it's that he that ramy's food was great and he called it great in the same vein that he would with anything that he was given that was great but he hadn't been given anything great for a long time at least as you know i think i think uh to in the film's defense what he what the film is saying he does is that he's overly harsh to anything that isn't excellent right i think one he compares chef gusto to chef boyardy at one point you know like that anything that isn't excellent is lowest common denominator trash like i think maybe scaling is off it's yeah like yeah the ego and that's not fair to everything that's pretty good but not perspective not that he's like wrong but that his attitude and like framing is lopsided yeah like like the ign's fucking scale where it's like zero to eight means one thing and then nine means one thing and ten is one thing yeah so are they basically saying he should grade on a scale or the average is in one party rediscover the core like he needs to reconnect with the core so that he his perspective is kind of like reinvigorated and refreshed and he can uh just have a better attitude towards uh what he does of the film uh i think part of it is that yeah like i said that you know anything that isn't the best food he's ever had he's like this sucks this is lame and i think obviously you could say that's too harsh to things that are all pretty good right it's like moller like you said the person who's like only these five movies are good at all everything else is garbage you'd be like okay come on but you might say that someone who makes a compelling case for it as he must if he's this successful as a film critic or sorry as a food critic uh that he you could say his influence would uh push some people to try to be better and try to reach the heights you know i mean like the that sort of harsh criticism we drifted into whiplash here are we talking about because if you want to talk about like cooking right the michelin guide michelin stars and everything and i'm saying he's onto something because yeah there are other films that have made this point that like the harshest of critics can end up creating the greatest of artists and he's not even like actually abusive the way what's his name is in whiplash like he's just kind of mean that's like the worst sin he commits is that he's kind of up his own ass and that he's kind and he's mean and he demands excellence from everything or it sucks and it's like well if you're trying to be the best you could ever be at cooking you know that might motivate you we watch as remy struggles to accomplish his dream by facing adversity and numerous critics that range from both his friends to his own family who are either confused and do not understand i thought both these guys were his family yeah his brother and his father yeah yeah is he talking about the guys that are amiel brought along you know the other rats i can't remember if they did they have criticism for his um uh i don't think so i don't think we really see their perspective on it maybe he's counting um main dude well not main dude uh main human what they're yeah i think there's two total characters who have or three total characters who have criticism of remy's life and that's these two and linguine like nobody else either knows remy exists or they don't care as long as they give him food he brings them food he mentions that he has other friends besides his brother so yeah it's dand his ambitions of becoming a cook or who are simply afraid for where his dreams might lead him and want to protect him from negative consequences most obviously with him being killed by humans after all he is only this scene and they had bowls they wouldn't do this anymore no yeah i think this is too dark for them they wouldn't do this anymore this is like this is this is what pixar did back in the day is they had guts like when it came to storytelling they were willing to do this even though it's a film that you know it's for kids it's a little too crucial scene too because like you you might think i'm up until this point that his family is just too ignorant maybe you know jealous or you know um they just well this is reality maybe right but like really in this in this scene you see that he's really trying to protect him he's not wrong the world is incredibly hostile to their kind right the scene obviously leads into the you know changes nature the the attitude that is important in the film which is that uh that you know perspective right and and that it's like incumbent on um on him and on everybody to like change essentially if they want to make things better rather than just accepting yeah this is why things are you know yeah and then nothing changes and everything stays the same comfortable around humans the world we live in belongs to the enemy we must live carefully oh no direct pause for the second copyright because i feel like keeping these lines are important for the the old episode itself just so you know what is said here we look out for our own kind ready when all is said and done we're all we've got uh does anybody remember the uh the scene where remmy is climbing up to paris and he bypasses a mousetrap yep does he do that because he knows what a mousetrap is or does he do that because he hello perhaps but yes it's because i think he knows it's a trap and he avoided it are you gonna ask why didn't these rats avoid it no okay if i if it i figured that's what if it was the other way around i was like there's some deep meaning into it into that but i don't think it's that i think it's the other way around let me ask everybody else to see if they confirm well i think given the the opening scene you know they're they're living in the old woman's house and they're they seem to be kind of tiptoeing around please like they don't want the woman to know that they're there you can just say his dad's veteran clearly like his dad would have told him everything about this right yeah and then and then remmy is spotted by the old woman and then like the woman tries to shoot him like so i think he's aware definitely that the world is there are people out there in the world that are trying to kill him yeah i figured as much i just wanted confirmation remmy manages to overcome all of these hurdles but his final and biggest challenge is still out there waiting for him anton the notorious food critic as anton comes to see remmy he tells a confused waiter that he wants to be served the rat's ego on a plate a symbolic jab at how figuratively he devours the egos so i feel like it's important in terms of writing his script here that you shouldn't call it that he wants the rats ego first of all he has no idea it's a rat at this point so no he wants the chef's perspective he says perspective and i know it's been after us there but like it's important to emphasize that well i feel like this is worth re-recording um instead of putting the corrective word because not only that but if you haven't seen rat two in a while you might be convinced that ego knows it's a rat that's cooking at this point which he does not he does not um he just thinks he thinks it's linguine he's going to be cooking yeah the fact the fact that he used the wrong word like really damages his point here i think so why bother getting it right he's identified it like he definitely should have re-recorded this one this is an important one yeah this is re-recording takes work like you gotta set the mic back up it sounds different it takes moments no rags it's weeks oh it wait weeks literal and thorough weeks at how figuratively he devours the egos of chefs in his own reviews and although he doesn't like what he just said that so it seems like just fundamentally incorrect statement well in realizing sorry for me i was just his correction would be he devours their perspectives i don't know what that means you know what i mean like in studying what the correct term is he'd realized that like that was rhetorical like like he's sort of trolling the waiter here and like leading to the conversation to a point where he's like let me provide the perspective because i'm the critic i'm here to judge you guys right well yeah this is his ego coming through it's like it's about time this place because it keeps getting like people saying it's good it requires perspective and it's not going to be provided by the people coming here or the chef it's going to be me right now plate a symbolic jab which of course is uh really cool that uh the old remi provides him some perspective exactly he wasn't ready for that he devours the egos of chefs in his own reviews and although he doesn't know remi is not his typical chef this line is still a reminder that anton is someone remi should fear he might not be should fear i don't know about that i think that's a thing i think a lot of time it's uh as you see remi cooking he doesn't look very afraid at all he looks very comfortable he fears you can argue there's fear on in money in the interview process but i take issue with should fear no i i think that's the problem right it's one of the things that remi it seems like he's not very afraid when he's actually cooking because he's so like immersed in it he's happy and i think that's the point the film wants to make yeah that that he's enjoying it for its own sake uh and then consequently that that yields a really good outcome when he presents it's the ego chef this line is still a reminder that anton is someone remi should fear he might not be an exterminator but anton is the executioner of chefs and instead of using a sword he uses a pen and as the old adage goes the pen is maria he didn't like to say it it's okay right and the sword it is okay it's it's it feel like it's adjacent to using the good the bad and the ugliest like a as a statement you know it's like yep don't have that one a billion times but the pen is mightier than the sword but remember the sword gun is mightier than the pen that's right and the pen yeah pen gun mightier than the sword sword gun mightier than the pen gun delivery is extremely important when you have a saying that people can predict is coming you have to like say it in a way that twists it a little bit subvert expectations you want to incorporate it and maybe reverse the wording into your own sentence and so that people realize you're using the quote right as you finish the sentence and then you move on like you know maybe he said like in this case perhaps anton is mightier than a than an exterminator through the use of his pen there's some some shit that you know you you you redraft I don't like food I love it oh he's so reliable I don't I don't like movies I love them I tolerate movies but he doesn't execute chefs he like makes them less critically acclaimed they can still cook it's not like they're out of a job like there are only 14 three star restaurants in all of america like a three star restaurant is still really really well highly rated the thing is the google three star they're not that aggressive when uh with the michelin system no no no no like the michelin three yeah yeah michelin stars are way more impressive than google stars google stars aren't that aggressive no no wait three michelin stars is the top that it's not five it's three so if you got three you're like absolute best of the best yeah oh what's those dead so it's one two three uh five stars is like a system in this movie for some reason um michelin it could be like a fourbs or uh something like uh it could be five stars on yield I think there's like a rosettes is I think that's the thing in the can I think that's like five stars uh so it could be that but yeah michelin is is three is top but then you got two in one but the thing is in that industry you lose a star that can like destroy you as a as a as a a restaurant losing a star is like really potentially catastrophic um it's a it's a hyper stressful system the michelin guide system because I have like the point I'm trying to make is that they got two stars knocked off their five star rating system and they're still incredibly busy well no they've got empty seats uh I think I think that's something that you're meant to pick up in the film is that there are empty tables around in the restaurant they're not doing as well as they were before okay I had the impression that they were still functional oh yeah they're functional it's just they're not they're not where they used to be uh there's definitely that means well wait I think sorry cap was probably prompted by him saying he can like destroy careers which is a matter of semantics maybe uh yeah because I mean yeah I guess I um but I mean I guess I'm fine with that as like in the case of someone like Anton it's not just that you know it's he's hurting their feelings right like it can have a measurable impact on their business well um so that's what I wanted to take this conversation is yes he can have a measurable impact but like shouldn't he is that bad you know what I mean um I mean yeah I guess it's kind of a discussion that just well yeah they have all that business and success because critics oh you need to say that all again cap you are yeah cut out there oh uh well they had five stars and all their success because critics like him credentialed them yeah no like that's that's where I wanted to go with this so yeah um I was gonna say like I was hoping someone would maybe present the idea that's like maybe that's too much power and it's like so it's power that it seems everyone is engaged with and accepted as the rules of the game and then when they lose the game they complain about the system um well it's yeah it's kind of interesting because you look at a lot of these like chefs they all put a wow not all of them I shouldn't say that you look at you know you watch like the documentary about Gordon Ramsay trying to get his three Michelin stars it's like obviously it's this thing that is like in the sphere that he's in it's like the marker of quality the ultimate marker of quality and it's like well how does that system work and it's like well people put stock in it people believe in the system yeah and like you know and and then that yields the positive effects and then also the negative effects you know one way or another I don't think any one person or entity's opinion should hold so much power but when it when this type of system is gained naturally like what are you going to do about it I think I think so too and then I think that what's happening is that there's a natural checking that comes in of like whoa whoa whoa I feel like yes this developed naturally but now you've got too much power it came up in Birdman but it's like why do you as this person have the power to sink or swim for like a whole restaurant it's like that's insane how can and you know you you can make that point of view totally valid I think but at the same time it's like yeah why did that happen like well but apparently they're that trusted by people as having a valuable and integral point of view it's like and so how much power should they have is complicated unless you establish that he's actually been dishonest or unfair yeah actually anything wrong with it people trust his opinion which is not something the film does I don't think I don't think the film ever makes the point that Anton has been uh like like lying or manipulative no I don't think it's them it's perspective and that his perspective is eschewed not that he's like malicious or uh lying or dishonest no I mean if he's affecting anyone negatively it's himself really because yeah he's kind of so he's like a shell of himself I don't think he goes through life happy like but that's what's so great about the ending it's like he's like he works on a rough brought back to life he gets reconnected with the core which is as much as you know as much as I don't think the film is saying that he when he says he loves food that he's lying that he's kind of lost sight of what exactly it was that he he loved about food something's gone off and he needed to reconnect with it right if I don't love it I don't swallow I will return tomorrow night with high expectations pray you don't disappoint me this is why I feel like our designs are so good look at it performance this might be an aside but he says high expectations doesn't he mean high standards no because he's expecting to be just disappointed well you will have he expects a lot from uh linguine especially based on what he's heard well he's expecting linguine to fail so wouldn't those be high standards rather than expectations I think it's saying he expects a lot of linguine if that's like rag said that I don't yeah I think you could have it you could have him say I expect you to you should do well or something or like if you want to get a good review but in his head you know what I'm trying to say is what he says and what he feels can not not necessarily match completely like um you better do great buddy it's like not incongruent with thinking you're not going to do great you're going to do terrible death for his body but also his soul he is someone that out of all people Remi should fear the most because unlike others Anton truly knows what good food tastes like which puts Anton in the highest position to judge Remi's cooking on top of being able to judge him as a pest thus Anton isn't just able to be the end of Remi in just his body but also in his spirit dreams and passion um it's interesting I don't think I necessarily disagree though we are working off the operative that like he must know what good food is like we assume so because there's no real way to like I don't approve it outside of the fact that he's in his position for a reason we assume um but yes that is a stress of it the fact that if you can't get one of the most respected critics to respect your artwork as you know that of strong creativity merit or just strong execution then it'll make you wonder if you're actually making it or not I do wonder if it would actually crush his soul if you know he got a bad review from this guy he seemed so confident and self-assured Remi that is you know and it probably shouldn't right like that should be a part of the message you shouldn't let someone saying you did bad make you crushed or one of them doing it yeah in a different story that's the message you would want to send yeah to me something worse than death for Remi because when he feels like he can't cook he acts like he's lost his soul and we catch a glimpse of this when Remi is captured and all hope feels lost so we have given up why do you say that we are in a cage inside the car trunk I have to do a lot of pauses probably but I do want to hide the scene player I also don't metaphors are fun it's not analogous because if he gets a bad review from Anton it's not like he could never cook anywhere ever again well you're right because like it's um Anton reviewed the place badly and it's been building back up because of good cooking if Anton reviewed it badly again theoretically they could still build back up by people liking the food that Remi is creating right yeah I guess would be the concern that it could be the thing that pushes the business over the edge I think like in terms of that in those stakes it's a lot more about linguine and like the restaurant um you know that's different because he's talking about Remi's spirit yeah oh like that his spirit would be crushed if Anton thought like he's basically saying if Anton reviews him negatively that's it for him his life's over because he can't cook I'm not I'm not I'm not convinced that it would uh no another remedy would be destroyed by that I think Remi's got like a a bad review from Anton awaiting a future in frozen food products no I'm the one in a cage I've given up you are free I am only as free as you imagine me to be just pausing for the sake of safety also yeah um throw us up with either youtube discord or something today but we're getting every once in a while like a five second gap of silence a little bit of silence though those listening at home right now or in future don't you worry it's that's just something that's happening for some reason as you are oh please I'm sick of pretending I pretend to be a rat for my father I pretend to be a human through linguine just just safety safety you know how it goes flam flam flam flam yeah I pretend you exist so I have someone to talk to you only tell me stuff I already know I know who I am why do I need you to tell me what would you guys say is happening in this scene he's trying to build himself up build himself back up pep talk he part of him is talking to the other part of him which one wins is determined at the end of this conversation yep I think that's all accurate and I think there's brought on by a couple of things all at once right like losing his access to the kitchen probably with uh what happens with linguine um and this is also this is also the final time we see ghosto so this could be the death of a certain perspective in remi's head or the letting go of a certain perspective in his head what do I need to pretend but you don't remi you never did when remi doesn't cook it's a much bigger deal for him he feels completely lost and it's worse than being simply caught by the humans because at least he could die as a chef rather than die as just a rat however so he almost crazy I think I would actually say that he's um he's actually got it reversed I think there's more credence to the reverse part of point of view that in this case he's lost access physically to cooking not spiritually like um what I mean is that he's not worried about ego destroying his spirit rather the it would be the that moment in the film is an absolute like restriction from being able to cook and um obviously the the rat stuff comes back into it right the last thing linguine he says is I'll treat you like a rat if you uh if you come back or whatever so like you know the the conversation is like the nature of a rat being a cook you're pretending and it's like you never wear you are always a cook you're always you are a cook you are a cook that's who you are yeah um however while anton might be death remi is also death's counterpart life he to me is the symbolism of youthful ambition and of love and hope itself which can never really be destroyed this is why except by death yeah your your hope gets destroyed you still has no more hopes and dreams believe that regardless of anyone's opinions even of someone as high and mighty as anton remi would still continue cooking no matter what he doesn't wait you did you just said the opposite like 30 seconds ago though that he would be destroyed if you go give him a bad review it would be broken and like that anton has the power to destroy it because where you can't say like well the the montage where he's cooking he's real happy and not worried at all but of course what good points with that point is that he's already hit his low point well but that's that's the problem of this video is it seems like it's told things out of sequence a little bit yeah because of it because by by the time that he's cooking for it's partially the reason why he succeeds stems from the fact that he is now comfortable and self assured in his identity as a chef and that he's way less mired in all of these perceptions and like i need to be this or i need to be that yeah the right angle the yeah criticisms by the low point isn't really spurred on by ego at all no it's it's everything else it's the relationship with linguine in the access to the kitchen the guy making this video just said that like oh well he doesn't really need ego's approval and it's like what what is it he said it earlier as if to set up the point that oh that's the power the critic holds in his hands so he better not be too mean about it it's like i just don't think that follows from what we've seen in the movie doesn't care what anyone would think but although this might be the case this doesn't change the fact that anton's word against remy still symbolizes the fear that all artists face in that they are the mercy of the beholder who views their work and judges if it's of value or not but as we see in the final showdown between remy and anton artist versus critic something remarkable happens anton is reborn i have a question what's that do you do you does any do you guys feel like have any of you had your works critiqued do you feel the way he just said what do you mean like the idea that i don't create something that you're kind of like going out that you were at the behold the behold of the critic and that they didn't so i mean i mean to some extent you're gonna be judged for what you make and that's obviously like a part of it and you accept it but i mean i like to make stuff because i like it yeah between being being beholden to your audience and beholden to a critic specifically or is the audience just critic in this situation because like i want to do a good job for my audience i want to make them laugh i want them to have a good time and if they don't i've done something wrong i don't class that as quite the same as the opinion of like somebody i know really well or someone who's really really high up in whatever industry happens to be who's you know but taste and i respect and whose judgment i really rely on that's that's a kind of different kind of fear i don't really mind too much being criticized by people but like there are some people that you look up to whose opinion probably matters a bit more to you but i wouldn't necessarily think that's fear yeah i should have been a bit more specific like not not like a audience critic like somebody makes a big critique like a written review or a video or whatever about your stuff and then while watching it do you feel like you're under their thumb basically i've so i've always wanted to encourage uh the same i think conclusion that ratatouille has in this aspect of the lesson for remi that you should gain your like confidence and value in and of the acts themselves and for you like in terms of the creation of it you should find the value in that that the thing that's created is the awesome thing that you've done you shouldn't necessarily base it on what everybody says it is because it's so fickle and it can often be misunderstood or lies or there's a lot of deceptive visions of it that can absolutely fuck with your psyche in the same vein you could theoretically create something shit and everyone liked it and that would throw you off as well so this is like maybe find your own understanding of your own work and what works and take value in the fact that you've created something in and of itself or that it's strong but at the same time there is absolutely no denial that having everybody on lover if like we're wired this way if everyone says we made something incredible that they love it's going to make you feel good and it's something that you want and especially as little platoon just highlighted certain individuals opinions will mean a hell of a lot more than than others and that that's just like an indisputable part of it i suppose the equivalent here is that if we all made a video and the Anton would be maybe PewDiePie not necessarily a critic of videos but if we knew our next video is being sent to him and he's going to review it in front of everybody it would be like hmm and you know is that a fear apprehension anxiety and what for exactly that if he was to give it a negative review what is the result that your reputation goes down or that your chance to give yourself a boost in career is gone and you wasted it or there's all kinds of elements of motivations that could come into it i don't i don't think it's unusual it's just that it's different for everybody different scales different knobs and numbers being pushed and pulled in all different directions for why i'm interested to think about that i suppose okay i was curious because i've only been like severely critiqued once well that i can recall and when it happened i actually got it i had the opposite feeling i got excited because off script i'm not as good with my words but when somebody is like critiquing me on script that gives me an ability to elaborate further because in my work i have to be succinct i can't go on long tangents or the audience will get bored yeah if somebody gives an elaborate critique i'm like oh you're allowing me to expound on what i said okay let's do this and it was actually like one of the most fun times i had when they gave me that critique yeah that's that's definitely a potential there's there could be a strict excitement to anyone reviewing your work should be like fuck yeah let's do it like no apprehension it's it's it's different for everybody and obviously different contexts i've uh so sorry if i may add a thing here i've been making videos on my channel since 2007 and uh not just like videos critiquing other people's work but like i i write stories and i made several mission in my series and uh some of my early stuff is in fact a lot of it is cringe and i didn't know that at the time but i was able to shape my craft because of the critique that i got i never ever saw it as sort of like a hindrance or like shackles or like being under anybody's thumb i always saw it just as an opportunity to grow and you know i got a lot of mean reviews like critiques people calling me every name and so you can think of but that shit never really bothered me um it was the stuff there was the critique that was actually accurate that hurt the most but i never saw it as like oh i'm never gonna make something again i was i always saw it as an opportunity to you know improve and make the next one better so yeah yeah there's definitely an element of sometimes if you get you know under the umbrella of criticism someone labs out something you read it all and you don't even recognize it like to the point where like did you even watch my video like what is this what does this have to do with my stuff um this is something that's very incisive and even maybe is like i love the part about this but where you really failed was how you've completely missed this element you're like oh shit it did yeah but you know you i think any any story would try and encourage like that's good it's a good thing it means you've got things to learn places to go you know blah blah like trying to see it as moving forward but i think that's um it's you know you can have an attitude of it's not like that it's a problem because someone said it it's like you agree with it right it's it's it it comports to your understanding of what is good or bad so you could always even then like try to make it more um focus it in more unlike your fundamental experiences it's well i got new information and like it makes sense to me rather than this person said it was bad and that is the reason why i should be upset yeah well it's all about trying to find like i guess a good attitude and approach to have that doesn't end up like destroying your ability to create anything new to right because you can get crushed in so many different ways like i feel like it's super intuitive and simple to be like a harsh critic can destroy the creativity of an artist like okay is it possible for the the excessive praise of a critic to destroy the creativity of an artist like yeah and that's the thing i i want more stuff to talk about that okay let's get it all out there you know all the different versions my impression of that is it's more likely to happen as well as you sort of get older and become more professional when you're younger and you're starting out and that your your your motive is always going to be just like i'm going to create what i want to create and if someone doesn't like it fuck him but as you get older and you sort of you start to learn the craft a bit more but you also gain more sort of relationships with people who you admire and respect and you're more technically aware maybe but you're also aware of more of the critics and you listen more to them you become more aware of pleasing them and in a bit to please all of the critics you end up pleasing absolutely nobody which is why so many artists just lose their their verb as they get older they try to become you know all things to all the people they admire and respect they're part of the club and the club mentality is what really sort of kills your autistic imagination yeah i remember when i was really young like i started out making stuff on new grounds and i remember i i said that thing that you had said they're like verbatim like here's my thing i made it if you don't like it you don't care and somebody replied saying how are you ever gonna grow that's your attitude and that was a really pivotal moment for me i was just saying you know what he's right like i should be soaking in you know trying to parse good critique from bad critique and figuring out where i'm going wrong and actually try to make better stuff if i could i think this applies but like you know uh friction will make several horror games that are quite celebrated but still a little clunky and getting there and then they make uh the dark descent which is a refined version of what they were making in the previous games and people adore it they love it it's so great and then they were like cool and you know i'm not gonna try and i'm trying to be a little nicer than usual as artists they were like we're gonna continue creating and so they create soma it's one of the as far as i'm concerned greatest stories ever told and then it's like oh wow that didn't do very well meanwhile outlast came out after the dark descent and like almost swallowed up the the genre is sort of king it's like it was dark descent but outlast kind of edged it out especially with youtube let's plays that it's more likely people will be playing outlast for those reactions because there's way more scripted screams um then outlast two is more hyped and everything and like soma is is is basically forgotten if not reviewed at all but the one thing that was shocking about soma for me was so few people even talked about it like um gave it a shot and of those who did i was surprised at how much like the story was completely fucking misunderstood in any case the praise for stuff like what i consider shit like outlast two or um five nights at freddy's or a lot of these games convinces team frictional to be like we should have just made let's just make amnesia rebirth fill it with jump scares we'll have a jump scare fucking mechanic that we will justify to our audience and that it'll be nice and scary it'll go back to what people love and it'll be great and it's like one of the worst thing like i don't know if this is exaggerative rags because one of the worst games i fucking played i have nothing but no amnesia rebirth was shit yeah i hated amnesia rebirth everything about it sucked the characters the story the mechanics it was all such shit i hated it and like where's the we're and i'm not this is not shade to ratatouille but where's the movie about the critics that praise shit and then an artist ends up making shit to try and appease them and it ruins creativity well i mean i mean with flash presents the story right of like hmm like what does it take to become the absolute like best that you can be at something and like how do we all feel about that you know how do we feel about that process so there's that you know i mean there's in the shoes of someone making a movie which i think in fairness is is slightly different to some of these other art forms that don't cost nearly as much to make and so people can just make and put out there for anyone to see movies really need to be successful or else you don't get to make them anymore with caveats for certain dumb decisions people in the business make but i do find i like some sympathy with people especially in the past this isn't true as much anymore where one or a few movie critics really did have a major impact on whether your movie was a success or not critically it's been sort of spread out in the era of rotten tomatoes but back when there were more famous movie critics there they had quite a bit of influence and but even thinking about that i don't think there's any reason to lament the power those people have unless they're being unfair right because if they say your movie sucks and you actually think their criticisms were really poor criticisms yeah that would really suck to be to have your success the success of your movie the fact that people might not see it because of their criticisms and their takes and that you find to be poorly written or you know poorly constructed but if their critiques are valid i don't see how you can lament that they have an influence over people you know because it always come go ahead oh no it's good well the critics ultimately beholden to the same audience in the end as the film industry is so they we're talking earlier about is it bad that critics have certain amounts of power is there right a right amount of power a critic should have the answer is the critic will have as much power as they've earned and as they start to praise crap and the audience eventually sees that what they're being told to see is crap the critic loses his power and influence in all the video game journalism outlets that used to be known in respect of now is completely tanked because their priorities have shifted they praise the wrong things and the audience can see that so those outlets and those critics no longer have the same power they used to have you see with individuals a lot as well individually youtubers there's rises and falls in terms of people's understanding of their taste and direction there's also a sense that um when you have uh as we've said with the creative process right being that you create like like the frictional games example i feel like they were like okay we can't make whatever we want we can't make what we think would be awesome we kind of need to you know follow the line here go go back on the tracks we need to make the thing that people seem to fucking love that's the impression i got from uh playing amnesia rebirth especially in the long line of playing the games the the other games i was referring to some people asking is penumbra the i think it was a trilogy uh that's where they like first got on the scene or at least noticed um now the equivalent with like a youtuber and this has happened i've known plenty of youtubers who talk about it and it sucks is that they make you know video about thing that they want to talk about they make another video about another thing they want to talk about they make a third video about another thing they want to talk about whoa third video blows up the first one was about you know whatever franchise second one same thing third one was about star wars let's say or um marvel it doesn't really matter and then they want to talk about something specific and different and then suppose it's different and then you know nobody's watching nobody cares and nobody's praising them so they're like well now like like i was following exclusively creativity and now i feel like i have to do something else to format it and then some youtubers they start following whatever the trend or approved of thing is and it makes them miserable and destroys the creative output yep and then they hate their lives and they wind a lot on twitter and they get you know i get they just get so disenchanted about the whole thing yeah and that's across all industries of course yeah yeah when your passion does not intersect with what will allow you to be successful or you don't know how to make successful the things you're passionate in and that is such an interesting reflection i think of the point that over criticism can destroy creativity it's like what about uh apathy and then over praising of the opposite of creativity we've got to be careful right it's all a big balance almost with everything in life everything moderated to some degrees it's always extremes that fuck everything up and i just feel like um no offense to the guys made this video i think this is one of the better videos we've ever covered on efab it's it's it's i think so relatively strong so far yeah i'm fine with it things that disagree with it terrible yeah but the thing is like i don't believe this guy's ever gonna make a video called like the problem with over praise i imagine that's never even come to his mind right a lot of people don't even think about it positivity is uh definitely put on a pedestal right the that's kind of a topic it's destroyed a lot it's the not the silent killer but well yeah i do i think over criticism is the wrong way to frame this i don't think that's really the is it's poor criticism i mean you if there's if there's a lot of good criticism that that wouldn't really be an issue i don't think like nobody would be upset with a lot of good feedback uh create other things it would be if the criticism is bullshit or wrong that's the thing you just as you said good feedback and it's like oh you mean like praise and it's like no i mean praise and criticism good feedback is anything that will help you make continue to make good things or make better things in the future yeah like constructive feedback right like yeah even if it's like you're pointing out negatives you're giving the artist something that they can use to make their next thing even better yeah so that could be criticism some of it can be nuts and bolts levels to the point of like you have a flash frame there and there and there um in future cut further away from the actual cuts in the source so that you uh make it less likely that you'll have flash frames someone could just be like that's just an outright like pointing out of a flaw and that in future now you'll have less distractions from an audience experience point of view like you can totally what i'm trying to say is i can get so fundamental to call that negative is almost baffling to me if someone said like there's a flash frame at the point there yeah especially if you want to you know if that person said well it's like no it's positive because i'm learning and i'm going to be better next time yeah and thanks for pointing out i missed it you know exactly and you have a perspective that i didn't have and i accept it and then you can have someone point out a perspective and you like that's your perspective i think it's fucking stupid and i'm not listening to you and that's totally fine as well i feel like that needs to be emphasized right you can look at a piece of criticism and go yeah i think that's bullshit i i don't care anyway moving on yeah like that's a little valid yeah exactly just because it came from someone else doesn't mean that you have to listen to it um our conversation earlier no one agreed with me it wouldn't be fine and yet yeah and i think sometimes it's like when you when you get criticized for a piece of art that you make it's not always about like missing something where it's just like oh i didn't spot that you're right like sometimes you need to have your tastes shaped you know where like you didn't really have an understanding at all of the thing that they're pointing out and you have to sort of transform yourself like adapt or say okay i understand this thing now that i didn't conceptualize before i think that's one of the more difficult things about it as well is one of the reasons lots of people will cry about what they call over criticism is this certainly if you're if you're an artist and you're putting everything into this work and you think you've got like this brilliant understanding of your characters your themes your plot your well-building everything else and you lay it out in front of someone and it's your creation you're really proud of it and they might sit there in the best faith possible and give this really constructive feedback is like well i don't think based on what you've described the character as the character would do that in that situation i don't think the world quite works in the way you think that it does because of what you've previously said that you know it's fair criticism but as the creator it's not always easy to sit there and take it as fair criticism sometimes that actually feels pretty horrible and it's about sort of you have to get over that block in your mind which is that yeah you can actually be wrong about your favorite creation and you will be improved if you accept that it's just it might feel a bit horrible in the process and yeah i agree and you sort of i think as an artist you just have to take that on like i i i came to that conclusion a long time where it's just like you know i'm going to get criticism and it's going to hurt a lot maybe but you know i i used that you know yeah like i took a day to get over and yeah sorry go ahead i've none of that finish finish what you were saying no i think i said it yeah just i took a day to just sort of you know feel bad and you know i thought to myself like it's okay that i'm feeling bad this is part of the process right because it's like conjuring thoughts about like okay where could i how could i have done this or that different right and then it's like the next day it's like okay i had my feeling bad phase now i'm gonna come back with something that's really gonna impress people and then there's sort of like an invigoration there you know where i'm excited to make the next thing because of because i felt bad about accurate critique that i had received and if you really don't want to deal with the pain and discomfort from getting criticized you could just not release your stuff publicly ever that's the other option that's the other option you can just make a painting and then not show it to anyone exactly everyone has a book in the man in most cases that's where it should stay i think it's the quote oh my god that's where it should stay how dare i like that quote i feel challenged by that quote yeah some people would like wait there's a book in me oh i gotta write thanks for the inspiration shitty fucking opinions i'll show you quote well i'm gonna tell everyone my shitty story fucked up his bike oh little anton you suck at riding a bicycle here you know maybe this will make you better at balance this is some balance food where you can learn how to get some fucking balance as as much crap as i was given this one moment earlier i do love how it emphasizes wet nostalgia can do to even someone like ego i think it's on point with that i think i think there's a lot to be drawn from this um one of the bigger things for me we were talking about when we watched it was um it's almost like it's appealing to why do we all get invested in art anyway and it's like it's this wonderful experience of making you feel and most of the time better or more positive in some way but uh development or move or obviously in this case it's he felt like crap and his mom takes care of him and makes him some of his favorite food like it's it's not just the food i think it's also the the environment the nature of this yeah it's so it's an experience that he values incredibly and the food is taking him back to it which is is wonderful um does that what you're gonna say hmm you cut out when you said when you were saying the word experience you cut out oh shit i don't know uh luckily it's caught on my end because i'm recording locally but i can't remember where i basically i was just saying that there's a couple of there's a lot of things happening at once and that it to me it's representative of like why we all enjoy experience in general like it can appeal to that as well as more specifically like nostalgia or um you know reminding ego of why he became what he is you know how he got to where he was was was a very very almost wholesome and loving uh beginning yes and he's maybe gone too far right like that's part of what he's realizing absolutely experience things there's a rant in me that i will eventually put in a video but people need to experience things go out and do it stay i'm just more what if he was served ratatouille at the same time his dad beat him well it's your shitty ratatouille he fucking yeah hit that plate off the table his drunk alcoholic father comes in and beats his mother and him as he tries to choke down the ratatouille he'd eat it and then he'd say you know this is really good ratatouille but i think i'm gonna head home i'm not feeling so good do you want to meet the chefs like fucking a funny thing that occurred to me with like i'm not actually i don't think this i don't i'm not hung up on this but like uh if uh remi's food is actually good or it just reminded him of his mother's cooking which might be shit i mean maybe the food wasn't good that her mother that his mother was making you know his mother was a really shit cook maybe yeah but he's so overwhelmed by nostalgia that he perceives it as good because it reminds it it reminds him of his mother you know oh like i mean i don't think that i think you know it was remi's a good cook and it was tasty what so is ratatouille time with a fist as if he always beats him whatever ratatouille i i don't think the the moment in itself really matters whether or not it's quote unquote good food it's the fact that it was a different experience that reminded him of something might take on it was the food was made with such love and care just like his mother made it like that's what reminded him of it i figured that's what it was and that that both of the times it was good that his mom actually made good food and that probably was what kicked off his love for cooking along with where it came from you know the fact that it was made with care and then this is a really great meal that that is a good point it's not just that it's something his mother made for him it's like he was in pain and his mother saw that and said i want to make him better by making something that's good and i'm going to make it really carefully yeah there's definitely that element to it well like i said the power of nostalgia like how many things have you seen listened to whatever that just takes you back to a time where you were more innocent or still in a great place in your life when you see veda pop up on like a tv show and then you have to beat that part of you into submissions that you don't end up praising something that's fucking hollow it's another aspect this film was probably not going to touch like why would it go to you know that so much for the pen being mightier than the sword eh he's keeping his book inside remy's food transports anton back in time to a memory of him as a child world between worlds but hey rag thank god he didn't say literally transported him back in time you guys just feel like that would literally transported him through time remy's food opened up a portal through time that'll be a different movie cut back cuts back to the restaurant he's just gone where's anton well as chad pointing out anton vaded in this scene he did the last time i saw a time portal in paris was in bio shark infinite oh yeah yeah that movie that game sucks i wonder if you say that movie sucks as indicative of how you hate the mechanics maybe it's barely a game the most bog standard yeah lame-ass first-person shooter imaginable but luckily it's wrapped in a shit story it kind of distracts you from the bland mediocre combat being served comfort food by his mother after coming back home in pain and sadness this moment suggests that this is the first time anton fell in love with food and is part of why he became a food critic later in life as an adult so as to further experience is that what it's saying that's the first time he fell in love with food maybe it could be but it's like it's not a moment anyway explicit it's fine without interpretation that he has really that's interesting i don't i thought it just goes back to a memory of it's something his mom would make for him when he was feeling down and so it brings him back to you know to that it's the nostalgia of it i never would have interpreted it that was the moment he fell in love with food i believe somebody was arguing this against me earlier and it's like he says that he loves food and this scene kind of emphasizes that that food has influenced him since his early days and this is a representation of it it might not be this exact moment it's the first time but it's a representation of how food has affected his life yeah obviously showing us what food is to him or what it can be hence the joys of eating good food and discovering new ways that this could be achieved in my view this is something anton has forgotten as over the years he has forgotten what it's like to have this feeling to fall in love with good food when we are first introduced to anton he was painted as this critic who has spent so much of his adult life tasting and reviewing terrible in his office he literally is painted as a critic have you forgotten what it's like to fall in love with good star wars this is it's funny i feel like a lot of people might try and apply it to me but the thing is like we spent so much time praising media we get in trouble for it sometimes we're fucking lost of us yeah yeah i remember last time it was really good well yeah we'd like to praise things that are good so what i'm saying is like we famously get in trouble for saying things are good so how can we be the people that never say anything's good you know like this where i mean it doesn't apply to us but a lot of people would like to they'd be like you'll just like anton this is like okay yeah that's us we're just like anton he's a legend would you guys say would you guys say that we're living in an era of shit media or do you think that's uh by comparison to other eras uh sure it would be so much to develop but i'm happy with that as a broad statement but i feel like most people like oh you're over exaggerating and be like i don't like i feel like there's been a massive downgrade in media bigger than we've had in i think so yeah i think so decade this is the thing um we went over this on the yms episode if you take it from a perspective um you'd be like you're just talking about star wars like okay fine but i'm also talking about marvel it's like yeah okay marvel and star wars like okay marvel star wars in indiana jones like okay marvel star wars in indiana jones and it's like okay but if we're talking strict downgrades it's like willow as well it's like yeah fine throw throw willow into star tracks like world fine throw star trek and Jurassic is a franchise fine throw that in predator it's like fine throw that in alien fine throw that in uh terminator fine throw that in like unprecedentedly horrific additions to each of these franchises smaller Jurassic what you cut out no that's what i mean like is this willed and park and you know Jurassic is the easier way to say uh i i i mean you that's fine no i thought in case you were confused i don't know if you were i'm sorry we had another dip that was the thing we had another dip you went you went silent there it was swallowed up by the void luckily i was being repetitive you know my point was right like i was just getting yeah i know i you'll label like 50 fucking franchises and then finally they might say hmm i guess it isn't a great time for mainstream high budget franchise media and you're like fine fine like obviously not talking about all of the indie circuit i don't i haven't seen all of it i don't know how it compares to other eras i'm just talking about the most influential and watch stories in the form of film but indie movies suck too a lot of indie movies do suck they suck really hard so yeah their own special way i think all of that i'm happy to broadly say we are in a shitty time for media compared to others but new luckily me uh friggin rags and i assume everyone else here regularly dips into old classics and relives a great shit i keep going back to it but there's plenty we could go back to but um it was really neat to watch anesthesia and get a complete refresh and have a bit of nostalgia watching it and also be like holy shit this film is really fucking good anesthesia is great obviously ratatouille is really good really good yeah so you know um that's another thing i feel like uh the comparison breaks with anton too is that uh we regularly go back and talk about and reference uh great things that you know go from being very old to not that old at all the annoying part is you have to wonder if you're a part of that group of people who just says everything i liked as a kid was better and you you have to try and be objective when it's like no no things now suck because yeah i think that's a another intuitive stance but when you think about it when i say i don't know if you guys are saying when i say everything when i was a kid was better i am of course referring stuff like lord of the rings or whatever have you of my era but i'm also remembering i watched the original trilogy when i was a kid which is not my era you know what i mean like you know and i of course have praised for that and it's like okay that goes back to someone else's era it's like yeah a lot of films when i was younger i had the benefit of the pick of the litter from previous eras and i was living in an era that was bringing out some regularly good shit i was on um i can't remember yeah it was mel's stream right we were talking about what the best year for film might be um 99 was one of the suggestions it's like that's not for no reason like you know the 90s and um there are other areas like there's lots to celebrate but the problem is a lot of people are like what is to celebrate for film in the 2010s to 2020s and it's not to say there's nothing it's to say the list is a lot shorter compared to other decades that's all a lot of the audience and even the defenders of the new installments will also recognize that there's a Jurassic world dominion when that came out and a lot of people in the comments saying it's just a blockbuster it's not supposed to make sense then you reply well okay just simple comparison sake which do you think is better Jurassic park or Jurassic world dominion most of them would say Jurassic park and then you say well why they say well uh well because um it made it made a lot more sense that's one of the things boy and the thing about Jurassic park as well that i find so great is that it's not only an incredibly tight script incredible effects and great performances and a wonderful story it's a film that sits in a in a sort of section that not a great amount get into of being known for like awe like when audiences saw it they were like whoa really hard to get that like that's that's something that's tough and you did it um you know and and and like look at Jurassic as a franchise now look at it now isn't it amazing nobody like dominion fire locusts that's all i know fire locust attack everybody what does this have to do with dinosaurs i recently rewatched a film called the secret of nim which is uh one of don bluth's movies you might know him from uh like land before time american tale uh the animation on another level just excellent and uh i remember i was watching uh the behind the scenes behind the scenes feature at after the movie and he was just talking about like we have to maintain this quality of animation otherwise it becomes stiff and robotic and soulless and exactly what ninety percent of animation has become today it was so oh yeah dude the um the quote unquote adult animated comedies you get on like netflix and stuff for animation is so sad yeah they're all they're all shit you know i say that's true for CGI and adult animation kid animation though still seems to be quality except for that wish movie a lot of people are saying that doesn't look good well it's not out yet i guess but it looks pretty like i don't know very interesting i mean there's cartoons made nowadays that you know are funny and have some good writing but just like the animation alone the don bluth movies it was it was just like amazing like the sheer amount of skill involved it was just amazing and i just don't see that skill anymore in any nowadays in theatrical animated films uh what most of them yeah i i mean i i would uh i would say that i hyper disagree obviously i think don bluth yeah like he's a he's a fantastic animator there's a lot of great stuff happening in animation in terms of the animation side especially if you're talking about theatrical films well i am talking about like 2d animation as well like three different thing oh well yeah there's not a lot of theatrical 2d animated films anymore unfortunately there's just none really being released so um how what are you thinking about john like how he is to now are you thinking uh i guess like the 80s no no no sorry i mean in terms of you're saying like uh we're not doing good right now because like uh have you seen wolf walkers that'd be one of the more recent quote-unquote 2d animated ones right oh i i i haven't heard of that is that you should film the high recommendation yeah it's uh it's really good okay no i i think there's some fantastic 3d stuff that's been oh sorry yeah because i was just like traditional 2d animation yeah there's so much emotion and soul in that work and that's that's just well yeah because a lot of people would argue we're actually in a bit of a maybe a lower level renaissance for um animation right now because it's getting a lot more like you got puss in boots and um spider-verse they they're uh incredible animated films oh totally agree yeah just making sure okay i mean i don't i'm not resistant to like computers playing a role in like animated film i mean pics are i'm fully embraced that technology and like you see okay right for that no i haven't seen that yet oh i know you guys talk highly of it yeah easy recommendation go for it yeah okay i'll check it out he's from so called chefs instead of discovering and reviewing good food that he can actually fall in love with he has spent so much time experiencing bad food that he has thrived off negative criticism and is completely forgotten that original moment he shared as a child and maybe forgotten part of why he became a food critic in the first place until of course remy brings him back who cooks the ratatouille i demand to know you know just for the sake of lean projection we're just marveling at what we're looking at right now because boy oh so yeah now i i i did check it i know why you asked uh whether or not we do who was voicing that character for you because i never would have guessed ever yeah who ash from good ol alien or you may know him as bill bow from all the rings oh my goodness i think what are there is what are these most famous roles other than those black panther wait what oh sorry you said bill bow i thought sorry i was picturing eating home is black just showed my credentials cancel shady get him out of here okay however the final test comes after anton finishes his meal and asks the waiter to see the chef that made it but now the critic has to wait and wait he does and after all the restaurant patrons leave we finally get the face-to-face showdown between the critic and artist where anton and remy look at each other eye to eye this is their first face-to-face confrontation to me this scene is about anton first checking that no one is pulling his leg but secondly also at moment where he is scrutinizing as to whether remy is a true artist by staring him down face-to-face to see if either he flinches or backs down or scurries away it's a symbolic representation of critic now assessing the artist themselves after assessing their artwork because to anton the two are intertwined and they must be part of true great art has a part of the true great artist and he is searching to confirm that this is the case but as he finishes he doesn't say a word and simply leaves then the next day his review comes out and it says it all in many ways the work of a critic is easy this is going to take a lot of pausing but we'll try and play the whole scene of course yeah because i imagine that he's probably gonna play the entire thing which is like well like 20 30 seconds oh i think it's longer than that yeah he's quite generous with letting the scenes play out yeah we risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment see so something i really want to resist being so overly critical of ratatouille how ironic but um do you do you never think that there is maybe artists out there who do low risk and low creativity artworks ones that don't give a fuck at all about what anyone thinks not because they want to create but because they want to maybe make money or that they have to satisfy a particular like contractual thing or people who just put shit out to put shit out like let's not fucking joke around here it's been said by a lot of people book of boba fat is a meme like that tv show was dumb as fuck it was produced so quickly and without care with no like artistic integrity for basically anybody uh you know i'm not trying to be too mean to a lot of the people who put a lot of effort into like sats or even like tomorrow morrison who was clearly sad about his role in that and of course talking about like the overall nature of the creation of that thing it was it was designed to keep people busy um yeah until the next thing yeah which is also uh the same thing madness season three has got the exact same fucking problem um these are like soulless creations that are pumped out in order to keep people busy can i not say those things are low risk or no risk at all in terms of like they're designed to not be risky they're designed to hopefully satisfy and just be pushed out and in the same vein they completely lack creativity meanwhile there are people out there not necessarily excluding anyone in this call right now who've created videos that are far more artistic that are you know premised on criticizing those seasons and so there's a remain i've kind of gone over before but it's just a perspective i feel like is lacking from attitui um and uh i may say so i think this is like one of the worst scenes in the movie because i i really take issue with a lot of the things he and the writer are concluding about criticism here especially the idea that criticism critics take no risks they don't put their heart and soul and personality into their work meanwhile all artists do all artists are bearing their soul for the critic who just says yeah i don't like it it's like that's and it reminds me of when chris duckman got enlightened and adopted a premise a perspective similar to this and said uh we have an artist who works countless days months whatever to work on this incredible piece of work and then we go and watch it and then spend 30 minutes talking about it and we pretend like we're like on the same level it's like what the fuck we we feel like it's an interesting word 30 minutes me and you're yeah 30 minutes yeah and it's like no wonder you feel so parasitic at that point of course it's just it's just beyond frustrating it's like you don't even you don't even aware you chris don't want to be aware more than most of the scope of the content of review he's um had regular interactions as far as i'm aware with yms who's you know the lying king review you're really gonna call that like uh oh that's just a parasitic thing you threw together and which like people don't have that much they don't care that much about it like it's not that valuable to them yeah i yeah it's just lacking i mean what are you saying about your youtube channel if you if you like to subscribe to that you know he was the primary example and so yes uh it should have been a lot to take away from that if not limited to the fact that he feels uh he's probably bit of imposter syndrome like how am i here when all i've done is this he thinks very little of his craft and what he does which is a fucking shame yeah and it's an opportunity to improve it but the thing is chris duckman like many treat youtube as a stepping stone they're like now i can use this to prompt my actual career this dumb little thing and then i'll go on and make a movie yeah i agree about this scene like i have a few problems with this scene i mean like i don't think it's a terrible scene but like it's one of this like out of a movie with a lot of great scenes is definitely one of the weakest like i don't like how he speaks so reductively of criticism well and it's presented as very enlightening yeah and like i don't believe he would have that conclusion about criticism him being a critic for so long and it runs against the events of the movie because he loses his job in the end but he says like critics don't risk anything like he risked his whole career but the the film would say that the risk was what he said was the risk which is yeah the one the one thing i'll try and give benefit is the start of this speech he says in many ways and then the rest of it and so you could argue there's room for him to say no there are some ways in which risks are taken and then the film like the risk that he takes with the review of saying that a rat cooked a really good meal yeah well was it that or was it that he he said it was a really good meal and then they got exposed as having rats in the kitchen out that they have rats in the kitchen yeah but then it's okay he had his little bistro that he opened up with uh ramy's i wonder i wonder if ramy's got an equity in uh my business mohler most food critics don't make videos anton doesn't have a youtube channel and such will rarely receive critique of his articles we are writing so much for telling me things i already knew good stuff does he does anton you have a twitch channel because i'd watch that he's probably playing the ratatouille the official video game and the probably was really nice yeah it's a bunch of like cooking mini games and i can't remember i think i had ratatouille for nintendo ds y'all joking but ai is on it also um to then give a real answer instead of just making fun of you uh the there's a lot of craft in writing critique like articles or forum posts or anything we went over this near the beginning there's there's um artistry to wording to written i can't believe i don't have to make this argument i can't go that a lot of a lot of well known and well regarded authors uh wrote articles and critiques yeah fun facts really really really proud tradition actually in english literature of literary criticism of articles in the form of newspaper responses like some of the greatest writers feuds ever have taken place in the letters pages of say the guardian like salmon rush year against um uh genre kare for example like there's a huge amount of criticism that predates the dawn of youtube just because he didn't have a youtube channel doesn't mean he's not getting read and criticized well no no criticism of critics only started with youtube and it's so reductive it's like do you really think ratatouille is strictly about the food industry what is not it can't be applied to anything else like sure yeah i say it's more about movie criticism oh my god you know what i mean well this video is for sure no i mean like this scene in ratatouille like the writer's voice is shining through so yeah you can't deny the fact that we're watching a film presenting the ideas about you know the menu i remember talking to drink about it and i was like i really feel like this is more about movies than it is about food but um you know it's fair i think he said it's like more so about art broadly and i'd be like yeah that's totally fair uh as is this but you know you can you can definitely see like it leaning toward a particular direction and being the right which you know yeah and it and it wouldn't you know it doesn't take away from the film at all to have the people who created the film be like you know what i fucking hate like asshole critics like yeah okay i get it i understand i want negative criticism which is fun to write and read but the better truth we critics must face is that in the grand scheme of things the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism you're on top of the copyright stuff right you're on top of the copyright stuff right i'm risking it but i wanted that quote said in full for people all right i got you all right i just just making sure you go with it how we might i might just um swallow it in terms of they they get their revenue because i really want these points to be clear like uh because ratatouille is a really fucking good film but like that's one of the most troublesome quotes in all of his speech he says like it's it's very likely the average piece of junk is more meaningful than our criticism of it it's like wow big for yourself my dude exactly that is also like the average piece of junk probably owes far more to criticism than the film gives it credit for or even most authors and writers and artists give it credit for if you look back at the sort of the tradition of or the development of the tradition of like english language english art forms english novels which feeds into english films that owes a huge amount to critics like fr levis for example in the 20th century or harrell bloom in the 21st century like critics who do their job really well are not just sitting there shitting on something they are trying to collate the best examples of the best kinds of art form which then go on to influence huge numbers of artists to want to find out what the best techniques are where they can be found what the best examples of their craft happen to be like critics if they do their job well are incredibly important in the development of art they're not just like randomly shitting on pieces of junk which is actually more valuable than their produce it's um uniquely frustrating too to hear this from anton who should as cap mentioned just now probably be the character in the whole movie to have the best insight into the value of criticism even though he's yeah you know quote-unquote lost his way he should be able to provide insight on like well wait i know it may come across as though i'm just like this fucking grim reaper of reviews but the there is a great value here in terms of like he would be able to cite like people's careers that he's created he's been doing this for a long time and it's just a little bit lame that like we're not acknowledging that nor are we acknowledging the creative works that he would have created in general he the fact he describes it as yeah it's fun to write and read like trashing something it's like why are you saying that like there's nothing else to it yeah he says it kind of dismissively and it's like no that's worthwhile in and of itself the fact that it also fails on a bit of no go for it go ahead i was gonna say the statement also fails on a bit of a logical level because he's criticizing criticism and saying that uh junk is probably better than criticism well if you're criticizing criticism by doing that the criticism becomes the junk you're talking about and yeah that doesn't work that's interesting as a point of view yeah because what is being this scene is supposed to be meaningful but it's him writing a review interesting but there are times when a critic truly risks something and that is in the discovery and defense of the new you see so we almost there because he's like they do risk and then he says it's basically only in the discovery of the new and the defense of it it's like well no you can take risks in all aspects discovery defense or praise of the good or the battle the neutral it it exists everywhere i mean if you know i'm talking about the whole idea of risk of criticism you put you make like a review of a film and you put up on the internet you're gonna fucking get criticism yeah like invariably no matter what whether it's positive or negative yeah because reviews can be good or bad oh yeah by the way people let you know uh someone just mentioned a chance like it was a huge fucking risk whether or not he knew the john fucking ebert said the games aren't art that is a risky fucking thing to say that was a stupid thing to say yeah well it's undeniably had a huge influence on a lot of what people think of him in terms of his point of view why not um yes we're awkward isn't it the world is often unkind to new talent new creations the world is often unkind to critics what do we have to take away from that is that okay is it okay to be mean to the good or cry well i'm gonna say like is it and equally is it bad to be mean to aspiring new artists like well it depends right like what if the new aspiring artist is really shit and soulless and just trying to make it because they want to make it you know i mean like they they don't want to create things on the same level of steven spielberg they want to be steven spielberg and you're like wait but that what do you mean it's like i just want to i just want to have that acclaim i want people to say i'm great it's like oh we've once again moved back to criticizing the critics work if the world is often unkind to critics okay why well because they're a critic what's there to criticize it's the logic it keeps looping back it does uh and that's because what you said right at the beginning criticism is an art form and so if you if you try to put criticism as opposed to the art forms then it's like well wait but everything you're saying about the art forms it just overlaps onto criticism so it just reflects every time uh the new needs friends last night i experienced something new it was funny because now i'm just thinking about how it keeps reflecting it's like criticism and critics need friends they need other critics slash uh you know audience members to let other people know what if a critic has a particularly insightful and crazy new idea about how to view something but they've got no viewers or engagement like should it not be a good thing that people look for them and find them and then single boost them maybe maybe not it's like this all it's all reflective every single thing he says about um cooking or artwork would apply equally to the artists in the realm of criticism also i just don't think we have like a huge dearth of people who are like in support of new things that push the boundaries there's like like i don't know half the population that's just kind of temperamentally inclined towards like new and novel and original things anyway like you know there are people who are like like the things they're familiar with and there's people who are always seeking out new experiences and stuff like that i don't think it's a like we have a problem in that regard i think people are always going to be in in some percentage of the population just inclined and there are people who like worship at the feet of anything that's new and subversive whether it's any good or not you know what i mean like there are people who are always looking for new things already i don't see it well there's that but have you noticed how we've all seemingly gone along with it who the hell decided the uh new and inventive and creative beats out old and known but really well executed i don't remember or agree into that contract why why shouldn't we be searching for people who do what we've seen before for example just tell a simple hero's journey story but they do it accidentally with a new coat of paint does that not count as new i've seen that already yeah if you were like i'm too familiar with this like i'm the same thing will be the point in signal boosting someone who can do things i've seen before but well and it's like i don't know man because that's celebratory i don't understand an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source to say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement gross like a rat and then this this sentiment which feels like a different point which is just yeah you should never you know a piece of artwork coming from a source you didn't expect shouldn't make it so the art is worse i guess uh you know you can be surprised like someone you think is crap can make something really good or vice versa and that's the other thing do you think the movie i feel like the movie never takes the negative side of all of these points which would be like yeah always be ready for artists you trust to make shit that is the reverse point being made here yeah which is fair too yes a lot of artists you think are great can make terrible shit never need they can yeah especially all the artists i like make good stuff especially if they get nothing like praise and then they exactly they get a big hat and it's like well everything i should as try anymore right so they have rocked me to my core Anton's speech explains why he felt reborn when he tasted Remy's food because it reminded him of what it was like to finally taste truly good food again but more importantly a lesson of how he should act as a food critic this lesson reinvigorates everything about Anton and shakes him to his core because he has found or perhaps refound the purpose of being a food critic which isn't just about reviewing good food and sharing that knowledge with others but to discover unconventional places see that's included in the first part when you share good food with people for being good presumably that includes old and new i don't know why it wouldn't it almost feels like you're disconnecting these two points it's like um the point you should just be focusing on is that the film would therefore from his point of view be about how you need to look for unconventional sources of the art form that you enjoy which is a point it's fine it's just it's weird to say that that stands as an addition to pointing out what is good and bad when a lot of people who point out what is good and bad already incorporate that as part of pointing out what is good and bad where good food can come from and to risk going against the grain in recommending something new and different from an equally unconventional artist a piece of art or a disparaged hold on wait i might have misheard him but uh everyone was liking gustos at that point he didn't recommend the rat though did he he recommended the food the restaurant yeah what i'm saying is um you can argue we took a risk in but this was before that the place was exposed right yeah just to lay it out just in case because this is how i remember the film going is that he eats the food finds out it was made by a rat he quote-unquote takes the risk which i'm now reformatting in my head he reviewed the place very positively and said the chef was one of the best in Paris he didn't say the rat the rat chef the rats in the kitchen didn't mention any of that he just said the chef was good and then the place got exposed for having rats which is not something um Anton knew would happen and then he lost his uh respect and reputation because he had recommended food made in a kitchen where it was infested with rats so is it fair to say because this is this is new thoughts i'm having he didn't actually take any risks really i don't um honestly none more inherent than the idea of just reviewing something positively in general he definitely wasn't going against the grain that's all i can say because the whole thing was the restaurant was doing well again just like it was in the past and this was his chance to shut it down again if he didn't approve but he did approve just like everyone else yeah i actually i think you're right i don't not only do i not think it's a risk he's he's kind of going with the flow well i think in writing that review he probably figured like the restaurant is going to be exposed eventually for what's going on because like you can only keep a lid on that for so long like our kitchen full of that you can argue is a risk yeah but um i think that the risk people tend to see it as is that he promoted rats um sure when in the review he's explicitly promoting a chef which is a lot safer if he had said like this food is made by rats and it's fucking great i know you'll find it hard to believe but i swear to god it's actually really good yeah even if that's true everyone else did it before him like there was a critic before him in that restaurant you're not wrong yeah like they would still be a lot of references to how like well everybody's been enjoying it so much it's gotten so much press that's why anton's even here yeah so he didn't go out of his way to find some little hole in the wall that actually has a really really good ratatouille to your point yeah i don't i don't think there's a line in the review where he says like i met the chef you know it's always like i the the chef is the finest in talking about him in a way you know he's just behind the scenes the whole time like i don't know what he looks like deliberately broad because anton knows what would happen if he explicitly described him as a fucking rat he'd be like wait what that would have been the risk yeah but then given the power he's displayed as having wouldn't that actually have been more likely to lead to a good result than leaving people to find that out on their own yeah not only do i think that's true but i also think it would tie in better as a risk he's like that's a huge thing for someone like anton to do to in his review say a rat made my food and it was incredible and you should do it too because that's just like what the fuck but he's got the power and influence to have more of an effect with that statement than most people in the world artist that goes against the status quo but that deserves to be valued and upheld to others as pure great art even if it comes from controversial circumstances or is controversial in itself that is why i think ratatouille is a great film because it traverses even the simple story of a hero chasing their dream and fighting against all odds to achieve it into becoming a story that holds a bigger lesson for all of us when it comes to criticism and being cynical towards something that is different i'll say this it prompts big lessons about criticism i don't know that it concludes very in-depth ones no because he's not cynical about new things in the movie like that's not his issue he's cynical he thinks everything sucks and then he finally has something good he's not like uh all new things are terrible i like things the way that i never pursue new things yeah i would say the movie claims he's ignorant of the positive experiences of the new i'm not sure they showed it well enough i don't think so either and that is we must encourage the discovery of new things in life and be willing to risk something perhaps even a part of ourselves to defend those new things that we genuinely believe to be good and are of value to the world see i feel like he's describing integrity rather than searching for the new he's describing integrity with a bias towards a new and original and novel things and has no seemingly no recognition for the opposite side of that yeah because i'd love to ask him it's like well don't you think it's important to also project the something mainstream and well known to be good is good if it's good and if he said well most people already think it's good so there's not much point to that it's like okay so what if most people thought it was good and it was bad is it now very important for you to express that it's bad yeah what's our game playing at that point and is that more or less valuable than the new there's an example um kind of a deep cut but there is a uh Felix Mendelssohn classical composer uh had some really great pieces we remember many of them today but at the time he was composing in a style that was kind of old-fashioned he was doing a sort of classical era style when everyone else was doing romantic era classical music and people at the time thought it was like oh this is cute but it's not very good it's not very artistic it's not very creative he's just doing the same old things again and again that's what critics at the time said but now we look at it and go well this is like a really good you know concerto or whatever so like what what does it matter that it was kind of retro or whatever word you want to use like is is there value in a critic at the time going actually this is really good I don't really care that it's not yeah right I even realize new oh no I'm gonna say it new is relative I was thinking that for a while but I was like it was never relevant to what was going on because yeah like you know right you could show someone who's been watching all of the new star wars stuff who for whatever reason hasn't seen a new hope and they could watch that and be like holy fuck that was incredible it'd be like well yeah okay but it's not new it's like well but it serves the same function at that point it may as well be and it might inspire them to make something you know I mean like it's like the old becomes the do it a lot of ways that you mix and match and move on and it's like how do you know when something is quote unquote actually genuinely new and um I mean I'll go ahead and say it like when I was watching andor I was kind of like man this is unusual and strange and not in a bad way like could I could I say it's new in the context of everything that's been made for stars in the past almost decade at this point like maybe maybe I could right and then I should be defending that because it is like well no because that's mainstream and it comes from a company that's made plenty of Star Wars already and it's like so what is new it has to be like in a hundred years whether it was fashionable at the time or not won't really matter people just look at it as it's a lot of people would say one piece that someone just mentioned is like being promoted and defended is that new one of the things I noticed about it I was talking about was that the story structure is so well traveled but that it's executed really well the paint job is crazy in a good way but that would that count as new I don't know and at this point it's it really is just out of the individual fucking reviewer's point of view if you said like why don't you promote anything new in terms of artistic formats and then they could reply I do we just disagree on what's new everything that he said in the last like sentence or two if you replace the word new with old like it would still technically be true what's happening here at least in my opinion is that he's entered this video with a premise without stating the premise which is that we are biased against the new uh inherently I don't agree with that premise necessarily I've seen a lot of people who are biased against the old uh but because he's entered this video with that premise but hasn't explained it he's making statements like this where he's trying to defend the new when he could easily be defending the old with the exact same statement yes yeah um because people are starting to give loads of really great examples in chat I was just thinking you know when you go from the practical effects over to start doing CG there's a lot of things that are shocking in a great way you see stuff that's like mind blowing and the you know it would have the tagline like this isn't possible with any other technology and I'll I'll just go to the Balrog right it's an easy one it's just like whoa that's incredible and a CG CG CG CG's cool um all the fucking Moomakill right like an army of them it's like whoa that's fucking amazing but we're at an era now we're seeing CG's boring the shit out of people annoying them and they're being so critical to the point where I've caught people saying stuff like like CG sucks like as a whole it's like holy shit to the point where if someone watches Iron Man 1 and sees him clank with his suit and walking around with it as a physical prop they'll be like whoa that's fucking cool look at that it's like that ain't new that's old but it's coming across as new it's uh super interesting to think about but it's like yeah this this video isn't going to get even near that it's got a very limited perspective on how this all works it's kind of lame I guess claims a good word for it yeah no matter how controversial or unconventional they might be by viewing Anton's own rebirth and transformation this lesson implies the notion that we shouldn't fall into being overly cynical and constantly negative with our criticism because like Anton we might fall into the trap of forgetting what it was like to experience something good in our lives because as he hints towards there is a lot of good out there we just need to find it and the pause I suppose I agree with that in isolation yeah well you could argue he did the complete opposite this was getting praised and he was annoyed by the fact that it was getting over praised and so he went to go and cut it down like it's the complete opposite of finding something quote-unquote new yeah at least this is the problem of the definition of new yeah aside his desk was facing the wall in that big room where somebody approaches behind him that's symbolic of his attitude toward the world he keeps his back to it he's not interested cynical deep I have made no secret of my disdain for chef gusto's famous motto anyone can cook but I realize gonna pause there that's a good place to pause between the two sides but I realize that I don't know that I don't know that only now do I truly understand what he meant I'm gonna pause again because that seems like a natural break boobly boobly boo la la dee dee dee oh my god we're three and a half hours into the stream already how'd that happen oh my gosh we're just having so much fun all I want to do is just have a chair of a ratatouille oh by the way I feel like the stream itself is meta because um we're primarily known by a lot of people who do not like us as basically like the Anton egos of the internet and we are spending a whole episode talking about how great ratatouille is a film about finding you know I mean like this there's layers there there's meta there there's art happening all over the place everyone could we be accused of over criticism could my view of ratatouille be accused of no not yes absolutely dude people probably come away from the stream being like wow they hated ratatouille wow unbelievable especially that one guy not everyone can become a great artist but a great artist can come from anywhere that's actually a quote I really love I feel like it's very agreeable because it's pretty pretty based it's got an element to it of reality it's a bit of edge I like it yeah because I think that the more boring one would be anybody can do it which is like maybe it's like which is funny because I kind of think that anybody can get really good at anything but it feels like this speaks more to the notion that um it's it's not wow essentially what he said right that the great talent can come from anywhere not necessarily that every single person could become like the greatest at any given thing well yeah then if you wanted like if someone said like oh you could be like well you don't have to be there could be a movie about that you don't have to be the best of the thing you don't have to be talented there's another movie that goes into is that I really appreciate which is uh monsters university I know it's not a lot of people's favorites but I absolutely love the message about it that Mike doesn't need to be scary he's really good at knowing what is scary and that could push him to new places because nobody thinks about scaring like he does there's a motive I was gonna say really quickly about student universities like the only one that I remember thinking I was like I like this of the sort of new era of sequelizing everything you know like Incredibles 2 is horrible um Toy Story 4 is horrible uh finding Dory as far as I'm aware is horrible I haven't seen it and then what are the other ones on their loads what of uh Toy Story 4 no I mentioned that one like legacy sequels if you could call them that way it's it's well three yeah but uh but uh with with with monsters university you know there's the quote it's okay to be okay which was a quote I really needed at the time because I was really struggling and I had really never struggled in my life before and then at immediately after that line is said uh sully bursts it or Mike says I'm okay just being okay and then sully says you think you're just okay but you did all of this other stuff like yeah you're not scary but you are fearless and then Dean just drives it home saying you did something nobody else has done before you surprised me and uh like the the perspective that greatness can come from anything or anywhere uh really lives with me to this day and I love the movie for uh bringing that out all right I would say that's the real heart and soul of the movie the stuff about criticism itself is kind of off to the side a little bit doesn't seem when it's undercooked yeah but I mean you look at this one with the idea because uh I think it's you know like uh linguine essentially being puppeted around into being something that he's not it's tied into this theme yeah it's like he's not going to be a great cook but that's okay because it'll be a great waiter he's better elsewhere that that's kind of that you can see a lot more that this is like this is the core of the film and it's a really really excellent one difficult to imagine the line anyone could cook I think is very cleverly implemented into this film because like you don't want to be too boast with it because it's like the title of Gusto's book and uh but it gets it encourages everybody to cook not everybody can cook like even if you think you can't do it like give it a shot try making something and even if you buy my book it is a cool thing about the line is because the easy straightforward readers yeah everybody can cook and it's like well no it's it's a little bit more complicated than that it's more so fit and like that the initial read the basic read is not the full read the full read is what you know Anson says here a great cook can come from anywhere that's what it means by anyone can cook yeah and you can sort of understand everybody's like different positions and interpretations of it like uh Remy has like on the roof when he realizes he's in Paris I think or he's on the roof of those watching all the chefs and they talk about the line anyone could he's like well yeah anybody can that they should but and like it speaks to the notion of um that there are things that you are more inclined to do than other things like that maybe you could spend a really long time pursuing this thing but you're already kind of more naturally predisposed to this thing and then you can find value in that activity yeah um you don't need to make yourself you know the point being that you don't have to force yourself to be something that you're not right and I should learn how to cook that's good I think that well everybody should I think should at least try you know see if they have maybe with microwaving some water in a cup there you go easy we're cooking fancy and then with Anton I buy the fact what he would later come to their sorry well did you say that because of what I said about the expend four bowls I can't lie I can't lie that was that was just floating in my head yes okay we talked about expend four bowls on metal stream yesterday mostly mostly we talked about mortal combat yeah all right I would check it out carry on um I buy the fact that Anton took time in coming to the conclusion of what Anton actually meant by it because like if he's getting bombarded by all this shit going around all the restaurants in Paris and everybody's bad or mediocre he would see that line of on Gusto's book and be like cut this is your fault you're telling everybody anyone can cook and everybody's fucking chef and now we all have to eat this dog shit and I'm I'm tired of it and I blame you and he sort of gets caught up in that resentment and so I I believe that like okay now I see he's sort of like taken himself out of that cynical perspective and he's kind of I believe that like he he had to work his way there you know I don't think that's just like bad writing or or he's stupid or whatever if someone said to me at this point in time anyone can make a Marvel movie I would have a hissy fit especially if it was somebody of uh clearly anyone to make clearly anyone to make a Marvel movie that's that's pretty clear any asshole can just make a Marvel movie I would be exactly like remmy well yes anyone can this mean anyone should yeah I really like that opening of the movie where they he's being interviewed on tv Anton is he has some really good line I don't remember word for word where he's like like oh I don't he says something about how he doesn't agree that everyone that anyone can cook because I actually care about cooking it's so like salty and maybe a little bit that's where the real uh jokes are yeah I wonder what this like column is called if I had like a name you know what is always call him oh yeah yeah like what would it be called what do you think it would be called well thankfully he doesn't write in the travel section where it would be called an ego trip but if it was in the food section and we know um ooh yeah what uh oh what food person like a new person oh yeah what would it be called what have something to do with perspective or would it be probably I don't know yeah that's a good uh well that little monica the grim eater that could be the title of it I guess I don't know if he'd call himself that though like I don't think he would I never claim that name the press gave me that I have no idea why they call me that actually I haven't been able to name his distasteful to me much like the food I've eaten I am a critic oh damn I did a double joke I wasn't actually aiming for the distasteful but I do you remember that from soul any of you from uh oh rags do you remember it's I don't mind saying it's just so fucking funny it's when uh Hoffman calls jigsaw a bitterer that he's like I find killing distasteful and then there's like this like this six second gap and then he just goes to me those movies are shit you got that to look forward to everybody it's funny as fuck for humble origins than those of the genius now cooking at gustos who is in this critic's opinion nothing less than the finest chef in France I would be so France those words I think I might be looking way too into this but I think the words he is there are very important he said no less than the finest chef in France now obviously you could take that to mean he is the finest chef in France that could also mean that he is of the same level as those chefs as in compare comparing him yeah I'm not saying this correctly no I mean yeah I apologize what you mean he's he's no less than the greatest chefs in France not necessarily the greatest but he's up there with a nothing less because rats are lesser than humans so he's acknowledging him is yeah returning to gustos soon hungry for more this film isn't just about food and of the intricate world of culinary criticism it's about how we choose to criticize and judge everything movies shows music to ideas opinions or people themselves the cynicism experienced by Anton isn't just the reflection of the cynical criticism of food or media or of art but also of cynical ways we attempted towards by judging others perhaps too often without knowing the full story of who they are and where they come from I believe Anton's speech I don't know that Anton like you know like we're not considering where they're from or how they made that this like well isn't that not generally better as in like um you appreciate their artwork or whether or not they're from a particular thing whether or not that is like the point that they're getting at it doesn't matter that he's a rat that like that doesn't matter that's not a fact that's not factoring into it he thought it was great before he knew it was a rat and even after he knew that a rat cooked it he still thought it was great yeah that's meant to be derived that those sort of ideas of like where it comes from and hyper fixating on where it comes from and all and all those prejudices is part of the problem is urging us to be careful when judging others who may be different to us because we can often be pleasantly surprised be careful when judging others that are different to us I was just trying to go back to remember the list of critics that he cited at the beginning of the video and wondering which of those he would say are prone to uh only critiquing the person who's like backstory they don't really know and then like demeaning the art based on the personality behind it as opposed to the art itself because I don't know like all of the people that he listed at the beginning but I know a few of them and I don't recall them ever doing that well but I just I wonder how applicable this is because what the film's talking about is a really like this is equally well founded and not that in this world rats are like almost human level in terms of communication understanding so of course that changes a lot of things but if in our world like there's a justified sort of revulsion against rats in a kitchen of course because it can make things so unhygienic that people can get diseases and stuff you've got to be careful but if we go broad and say well it's about how you shouldn't necessarily assume like the worst about where a thing can come from and and instead of thinking about that from the perspective of um we want to encourage everyone to think that you can be an artist no matter where you're from or what your circumstance you can get out there and be an artist I love that however the idea that I can't judge a work or before it's out based on what I know about the creator that's just a little silly to me like of course again I know a lot about what I can expect from particular people instead of just being like I'll be absolutely neutral on consuming the next JJ Abrams film it's like well no I am going to give her a chance and I'll praise it where I can but like you know we all develop profiles for all of these different artists that are very consistently disappointing let's put it that way with a lot of you know elements um I just I feel like it's yet another side to the coin that's going to be ignored even though it's completely reasonable and that everyone does it by the way there's no one out there who's never looked at a piece of work and thought oh shit this is by him oh well I mean yeah you will give it a shot you know try like that's normal behavior as far as I'm concerned and it's not unhealthy I wouldn't say you need to change that behavior it's kind of what I'm getting at but it can go too far I'll agree with that you could maybe say that Todd Phillips is not a true filmmaker and you can't enjoy anything he'll ever make like oh that that's a little insane because a good filmmaker can come from anywhere it's like people get anyone correct uh shocked and almost want recognition that I would ever acknowledge Ozymandias is one of the best episodes of tv it's like yeah but Ryan Johnson directed it it's like it's fine it's okay yeah he didn't write it well even if he did though I'd still be able to acknowledge I'd be like yeah apparently he was fucking on point then and he lost whatever it was it would raise some more questions about what happened but that one's easier to explain than George Lucas and Ridley Scott like what the hell those guys were involved in those and then they were also involved in those it's like yeah what happened I don't know it's hard to old it's it's old what we've heard before that old could be quite the bind killer so yeah that's true to see that they can offer things of truly great value to the world like ganton we can easily fall into the trap of negative criticism of others and how one conducts themselves in their own lives if their lifestyles are quite different to us or if they hold an idea or opinion that contradicts our own this can be scary which is why our initial instincts are to turn against it I feel like we've gotten off the rails here because judging people is very different than judging art and he's going on a people judging tangent yeah I'm not really sure who he's arguing with yeah well and and he's talking about like how new and different experiences you're automatically gonna be against them and assuming that you're making an appeal to like the state of change nobody likes things to change when everything's in order or something just like I don't know man like this is again coming back to what even is new it's like if someone enjoys the fuck out of I don't know Citizen Kane now would you be like well yeah of course because that's standard that's old and that's secure like you were never challenged by it it's like well how do you know that how do you not know that that was the most challenging thing they'd ever seen I feel like there's so many aspects that are going to be ignored on this because there's so many variables that can make someone against or for a piece of artwork that have nothing to do with whether or not it's new in fact I don't even know how much that comes into my mind when I'm thinking about whether or not something's good but is this new it's like it's not really I don't think what was the last time you guys watched a film that made you go like wow this is unprecedented and in a bad way yeah you saw something in the film that made you go like I have never experienced this before I mean probably army of the dead with a weird blurriness not not like that but the shield finale really ticked me off when it got rid of the climax so it's like I've never seen that before yeah it's so funny now because I'm like all the examples are going to be shit things really shit things they come to mind easier that's for sure yeah like it's also partly the nature of it being unprecedented it's unprecedented for a reason like most inventions are completely useless and crap it takes sort of repeated use honing and usually marrying them with some older form and style something that went for them to innovate something good and useful out of them but something completely unprecedented is almost certainly going to be shit that's why it's so unprecedented in terms of likelihoods and that's the thing is he going to acknowledge that the vast majority of criticism of brand new experiences unprecedented ones people are critical because they are often shit it's like no he's not going to say that as humans we can be think of when 2001 a space on the sea first came out I read that it was widely panned by a lot of mainstream critics because it was just perceived as too out there but it gained a cult flowing this is each students were just like whoa like I haven't seen anything like this but this is cool and it's like intelligent they saw the value and and like in a case like that it's like yeah it'd be nice if there was a mainstream to defend something new that actually had something cool to offer but like yeah like you were sorry go ahead would that be an example at that point that would fit into Anton or could it be explained by loads of things like someone could be like oh well you see they were resistant to change that's why they didn't really accept Blade Runner or 2001 or whatever it's like well it could also be that they fucking didn't like it and have since got an understanding of it thanks to other people that has improved their experience watching it or whatever have you like there's so many things that come into this because I wonder if they would use that as positive examples of this phenomenon maybe like you see they resisted 2001 they resisted Blade Runner they resisted Big Lebowski they didn't see these things for what they were they instead sold them as new different and therefore bad and that we need to break that cycle like I said to me like what if someone's review of like I don't know Blade Runner was that this is boring wrote and basic and it's like oh yeah look at me I'm a sci-fi look at me with my robots I don't care you'd be like Jesus Christ so his criticism is that it's not creative that's what I'm saying and then at that point it's just like well that's just shit criticism and that's just a misunderstanding of the film what does that have to do with New World you know right I'm thinking about a lot of the movies from the last few years that I've really liked and almost all of them have given me a sort of feeling of like man they don't make movies like this anymore rather than this is something I've never seen before in a movie wow this is incredible yeah we find ourselves saying that a lot when watching or rewatching classics or good shit that's coming out we're just like ah it's been a while it's not like whoa I've never seen this yeah it's just like oh a really solid hero's story with compelling characters and good writing it's not you haven't reinvented anything this is just really good and we don't see a lot of it yeah and that's an instance as we said where the old becomes the new so at that point let's get real confusing fearful of change and upsetting the established status quo do you like how he's saying like fearful of change when if anything Anton and we would advocate we're desperate for change yes he's desperate for it yeah absolutely um so I mean I'm just desperate for I'm just desperate for quality is basically well but that's the change changer is similar I guess yeah I guess bad quality is the the now but if I had quality for 10 years in a row I don't think I'd be desperate for something bad no you're right absolutely but that's why I think he's wrong in this video that he's like we shouldn't be so resistant to change it's like I don't care whether or not it's change I want good shit but right now technically yes I want change because right now we're getting lots of shit and largely for a good reason the status quo is what maintains the order that we rely upon and the traditions of the past and the social rules that we've developed are incredibly important to how we function as a society they share lessons and wisdoms of what usually works and what usually doesn't as well as teach us how to get along with each other thus being aware of social cues and the status quo isn't always a bad thing but trying something different doesn't mean that either I believe part of why we're afraid of things that are different comes down to how we're so used to everything around us and anything that can change that order so I feel like this sentiment would apply to the people who said like I can't see bricks in Star Wars it'll be like you guys need to you're gonna be fine you're gonna make it it's okay be open minded to a little bit of change I'm not even gonna concede that that's change I believe there are bricks in Star Wars like but if that were to be on that level you know instead if you would like you know drastic character criticisms then someone said well hey why don't we experiment with just having inconsistent characters you'd be like um what the fuck thing that we have to fight against we can become so entrenched and ingrained with our own current lifestyles that those same ways of life can become so integral to who we are and what we want to surround ourselves with therefore we reach a point where we share opinions ideas facets about what we like and what we do so much that they in turn become part of who we are they represent our personality as much as I feel like I want to agree with them almost completely I would be like well are you all going to acknowledge though the other side of it meaning you can get attached in your identity to the nature of you as an artist never being criticized and that you can't handle it or that it's something that ruins you even if it is genuine and important and that that needs to be accepted as well like don't tie your identity to being praised you need to be ready for all kinds of aspects and stuff because it just it goes both ways like there's a lot of problems with insecurities with it relate to like you believe life should go a particular way and when it doesn't you can't a lot of a lot of what bratatouille is saying about criticism and art and everything like that does tie into who you are as a person and your attitudes towards it it's not just the thing itself it's how you go about it you can't be you know it's the difference between being critical and being cynical uh or being um I guess misanthropic or anything like that but when something new comes along that's completely different and challenges our current lifestyle our ideas opinions and facets feel threatened as they might no longer be needed in the future versions of you everything that makes up you or at least parts of you is being challenged and you become unsure of how to react to such a drastic change this is where a new personality is forming but it often involves discarding some old part of you and I'm interested in the idea of the reverse of it again I'm like what about when you need to realize that the artwork is awful and that that's going to affect a personality a part of you as well I guess it's the um in my head I'm running the reverse video the problem with overpraise it's like how would it look would it be about yeah like I'd like an example so the disney star was for example um what about my personality needs to change for me to like that and do I need to change or should it maybe just be better well I would love it if he was at the call and he said well no that's just shit you're like okay just make it your cool yeah yeah replacing it with something new and importantly something that we really don't understand yet or know of as well as the old idea that can be really scary which is partly why I believe our initial reaction to something unknown is sometimes one of repulse because we typically always fear what we do not know again I want to agree with them and then be like and as we all agree I assume you can go the other direction where something you don't understand or something you haven't properly understood and you just praise it because you don't know what else to do you're like I'm used to praising this so I'm just yeah praise there you go it's great I love it well and there's people that make their entire personality that they're interested in the cutting edge of subversive challenging new things and like they they I don't like this insistence that it's a good in and of itself to like change your entire personality to like things that you don't initially like you know what I mean as if it's a good in and of itself to realign your entire perspective so that things that totally try to reinvent the artistic wheel are good in your mind now like what if what if it just isn't good if him go ahead him saying the unknown was such a breath of fresh air because he's constantly saying new and it goes back to what Mahler's saying new is is relative so if you're somebody who you like you're constantly trying to change up a trope and then somebody says well what if we try the classic trope of guy saves the princess you're you instinctively reject that because you know it's an old idea but it's relatively unknown to you he's putting so much emphasis on new and yet that one time he said unknown just made everything he said like so much more coherent I think yeah unknown's better than new for sure unfamiliar sort of thing the thing I was gonna apply in this case though because so like if we're going back to Anton what what exactly is unknown to him the thing that causes his moment of awakening and revelation is actually a memory of something that is exceptionally known that is exceptionally not new what's new is the source but he doesn't know that he doesn't know the source before he tries it and the source is irrelevant yeah so I don't know that the argument quite tracks the example no I think that's a fair thought and I was gonna say if I was to concede that TLJ's ideas are enough to consider new then I would think that the criticism is fully formed at that point as an example of people praise the hell out of TLJ for the fact that it went off the rails for the fact that it was different for the fact that we just watched a film in the Star Wars universe that challenged the shit out of everybody and then you can take it to the extreme like this would never happen but imagine someone like had a canvas and didn't put any paint on it or just painted it white for example and then it got charged like hundreds of thousands of dollars to be put in a gallery no that would never happen that would never happen that would never happen of course because we as a society have some fucking statements but I mean accepting your bizarre hypothetical I suppose that would be something so yeah and if that were to happen one might argue you are just praising it because it's new and different and weird and uh and this guy would then be like yeah well that's better than uh you know hating it because it's new it's like well how about both of you are wrong stop just why who the fuck cares if it's new or old just praise it for what it is or criticize it for what it is listen I know it's scary Mueller but you need to change your entire personality such that you like TLJ it's good it's good to do that well if I did that that I'd probably stop liking the OT and I don't want to do that I'm all right but that's a necessary part of your growth you're just scared of change that's all you are you're scared yeah I refuse growth or learning there you can quote me learning bad there's something within us be it because of biology or culture that makes us wary of something that we don't understand but that doesn't mean we should give in to our fears a great critic will be able to distinguish and judge the good from the bad while also allowing us to take those first steps to accept something different this works it's crazy but it works we can be the greatest restaurant in Paris and this rat this brilliant little chef can lead us there so if it's about whether it's good or bad ultimately because you don't want the critic to just you know praise all things for being new then what's the point like if it's it always comes back to whether it's good or bad yeah maintain your integrity cool good good cool bad bad why this focus on the new if ultimately it's only about whether it's good or bad mm-hmm what do you say you with me fuck no it's a rat dude oh what are you saying are you fucking insane there's a rat that controls you with your hair why will I why is your nose so big what the fuck as one of my favorite youtubers video game donkey once said no oh man about him sometimes i want to see i like we need to live from our biases is it the lack of insight is it the what what part of it is good i was gonna say uh john is totally fair and fine to find donkey totally entertaining but like insightful i draw the fucking line right he wouldn't be my go-to for like an in-depth breakdown of something that's for sure one of the things that bothers me is how much how little effort he puts into like the research side of things the accuracy side of things and a lot of the quote-unquote insightful things i've heard people quote about him are things other people said like a decade ago and it bugs the hell out of me that they get attributed to him a critic's power comes from their consistency in their voice it is through their extents oh like their integrity i guess i think you i think you just improved what he said because he said consistency of their voice which is not quite the same as yeah because that's a bit broad you could mean a lot of things with that yeah if you just have a consistent perspective like that doesn't make your insight valuable well because you know if like critic a says it's only good if there are women in it critic b says it's only good if there's explosions in it and critic c says it's only good if it's three hours long or more like they would all have integrity if they maintain those three perspectives throughout all the movies they review even though that might be a worthless perspective to all of us from all three of them but i could still say they have integrity true intensive expertise with the reviewing that makes them more certified as a critic because their breadth of knowledge on a topic helps them become the masters in knowing what works yeah it can it can also destroy the poison yeah it can absolutely just act as completely total poison this whole video's problem is that he doesn't acknowledge the other side of the coin ever all of these things that he's saying have equal and opposites that need to be acknowledged as well what doesn't and articulating exactly why these are incredibly important traits to have and they should not be understated but to be a truly masterful critic there has to be more the other half to the story is to discover and defend the new to help us understand stop yeah it's it's it's just a misunderstanding i feel like of this if the new is only he said it himself that the new is valuable when it's good so that's the that's the thing it's not half the story it's the whole story well and as we said you know like um night before christmas if i took someone who did not have any familiarity with the state of the industry or with film really at all they just didn't know much about it we watched a couple of films that are just you know Lord the Ring or whatever else and then i'm like how about we watch a new film brand new came out yesterday night before christmas and they're like sweet and i show them it they would never be able to tell like i could just be like this is this is some production obviously there's maybe things that give it away if they're really good at understanding like film i'm trying to think of like exactly what could give it away maybe credits would give it away as well but you know excluding a lot of what i'm talking about yeah yeah the um they might be like holy fuck this is revolutionary and it's like it's really not actually and this comes back to the whole newest relative thing this guy like what is new to him is not new to the next person so it's it's really not the focus it really should be on good and bad quality not quality creativity non-creative works which by the way i feel like is another aspect for him to talk about is this such a thing as like a film or or you know what if i was to present to you my artwork calling it steamed hams when i'd in fact just gotten a bunch of crusty bigas is that is that an artwork or are my kind of a phony am i a shallow phony that should be derided steamed hams even though they're obviously grilled exactly that that is like and i don't know that was amazing i remember the heyday of it being just one of everybody's favorite like things in the simpsons but this was before memes this was before you know there was such a thing as my day back at my beams i i i i i've always really liked the line you call them steamed hams despite the fact that they're obviously grilled there's nothing just so amusing about that he's being overly critical at that point friggy yeah except he should appreciate the new and skinner's steadfastness he's just like yes yes well yeah the fact that he's giving him a thumbs up as the house is better than that see more the house is on fire no mother it's just the northern lights there was a lot of good ones in that episode because like you remember the one where uh nelson was laughing at the dude at the small car and he gets out he's like i hope right therefore we made the subject of fun i guess so what would you like it if i laughed at your misfortune that is the smallest dot that is the largest automobile i could afford why is he talking like i love that fucking character he's funny as hell you never see him again no he's the simpsons he appears ones there's so many good like one-off simpsons characters you you know well i don't know if he's a one-off do you remember that do you remember that it was like the day where it was really hot in springfield and there was this guy playing as a guitar he's like sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy and this one dude just walks up and punches him in the face yes yeah he goes up a couple of times only a few and i don't think we ever find out his name you know you know despite being old if you were to re-watch the classic simpsons you might just feel like they're new oh yeah and by the way that's uh we were talking about it again in terms of our you know the eras of i don't know man i don't think it's nostalgia like god damn you know simpsons golden age simpsons grew up with that that was like some big shit oh yeah the writing it wasn't just because it wasn't just because it was the thing i watched when i was a young stuff yeah well and as was mentioned it's not just simpsons like uh people a lot of the comments on the video were like the sting is a part of a series of episodes and seasons of just fucking quality animated comedy from future owners like yep yeah why something's difference should be valued to illuminate and reveal the truth of things and ideas that we do not know that is the ultimate takeaway from ratatouille because what that's the ultimate takeaway that the good is valuable in it of it like sorry the new is valuable in and of itself because it's different i mean i would pick many many like if we're talking about the ultimate meaning of ratatouille again i feel like it is the a great cook can come from anywhere that's like the most center from anywhere not that different is good i don't know yeah and and and if we wanted to move on to it it would be that creativity is good not nest i wouldn't even say that the film is making the case that like new exclude it feels like the way you're afraid to be creative you should yeah create things and don't be afraid to be creative that exactly man that's one of the first things gusto says in that recording at the beginning of a movie he's like you have to be bold you have to go out and just fucking do it fearless yeah exactly yeah do it you fucker that's what he says that's what he said like antara states a critic's true power comes from being the hunters of discovering something new disagree he doesn't do that anyway i don't even remember that quote yeah like but i don't know if he says that or not he doesn't do it in the movie it's so easy to appeal to all these other meaningful things it's like what if someone told you what if the greatest artist all fucking time told you that a critic giving him a scathing like fucking heartless and cruel review is what got them motivated to make their next great project what does that mean to you what does that mean in general i don't know there's a lot of things you can take away from it what is a critic's job what is their purpose what is their sole honor to this world to do it is to discover the new and back it up it's like well that's one thing they can do you can do a lot of things what about the the critic who boldly says this fucking thing right here is shit and you're all loving shit and then everyone goes man he's right we love shit never thought about it i feel like a lot of people admit uh the tlj kind of red pilled on like a lot of the quality of film for them individuals uh i'm i'm included to some degree for sure because i came out with a similar experience of what the hell did i just see what's happening to me on the uh on the subject of food if we wanted to hone in on that how do they feel about you know like gordon ramsey a highly accomplished chef and his very scathing critiques are like overly critical for me and how is kitchen where he's like deliberately like a lot of a lot of the point of hell's kitchen is to our orchestrate situations that are challenging and to put a lot of pressure on people to see how they perform under that pressure it's just that the equal opposite thing proves true every single time when i make something and someone says oh man elements a c and e are great you should do more of that and then the other guy says be an d though you need to work on that and i'm like thanks useless guy i'm gonna go with the praise guy he's like okay i would argue that most uh artists and this would include critics want to connect with their audience that would probably be like my guess is if you're talking about art on a broad concept that would be the goal so i would say discovering the new is not necessarily going to connect you with your audience yeah well it's all components i feel like these are all elements that can be included but he's treated as like it's the be all and end all and it's like oh strange yeah it's not it's a tool it's not the goal it's it's of course nice when it happens like if there's a new thing that's cool and nobody's paying attention and says you know what this is actually pretty sweet check this out and then it gets a bunch of attention and deserves praise and you know it skyrockets in popularity and deservedly so actually good i mean that's a nice but to just sum up the the entire purpose of a critic is just to defend the news well the use of the function in society that function he's describing of finding the new and supporting it through thick and thin is the function that patrons used to provide that was the job of a patron the patron wanted to have their reputation embellished by the fact that they'd caught on to the next big thing before everybody else did when critics become patrons i actually think that's a pretty bad thing because automatically then you're you're asking the question of criticism generally are you being honest about this artwork and assessing it on its merits or are you assessing it based on the person you support or don't support did you discover this person and that makes their art good i don't like critics as patrons that happens occasionally and it never seems to end well and even if they don't support it themselves financially if what they're after is a reputation for being on the cutting edge it's like well how do i know necessarily that you're recommending things because you think they're good or just because you want to see that's because they're new and you want the appreciation i was gonna say what an alternate timeline where ramy makes a couple mistakes he throws an experimental ingredient and it's not a good choice and he puts it out there he eats a Anton and he says okay and writes down a bunch of things like you've clearly overcooked this you've added this when that's a distinctly like combative taste with this and you've you know you've done this this this and it's just like next time actually try oh and then well wait and then uh you know that goes back to ramy and he's like depressed let's just pretend this film is fucking two and a half hours now and then you know you get a speech from the chef ghost it's like you never should have built like your assumption on your art history from whether or not ego approves but at the same time he goes not some monster listen to what he said is any of that useful is any of it something that you can take forward and then maybe he takes it in he ignores a couple of the things that he thinks ego was wrong about whatever makes the next meal gives it to anton and we get the ending as it sits now it's like does that become a bad movie because anton was actually helpful with the criticism or something what i was going to say in terms of like an interesting one to think about is what is remi doing when he sees that uh linguine ruined the soup and he goes along and fixes it he doesn't you know let me the criticism to a space but it's about recognizing right from wrong and like going that extra mile to fix it are you saying that him changing the soup is a form of criticism yeah oh my god he didn't accept the new he did not accept the new that's why he didn't accept the new you're right well that's right this new was vomited out by uh and then the face that remi makes when he smells this so good yeah it's oh god yeah it's i need to find a way to fit a reaction like that into maybe i'll find a way to put it into so can it yeah just every time you say the name of a character it's if it's all about supporting the new they're sure that you could just throw any combination of random shit on the plate and that would be supportable worthy right like no one's ever thought before of wrapping strawberry flan in bacon that's a really bold man so support it i guess the uh the interesting one was um another example in the film remember how they were gonna off off a menu order um one of um one of uh i can't believe that man yeah one of gustos um recipes that was considered pretty bad and all it took was remi doing a little bit of criticism and going you know not going on the recipe and changing it and that was already like an experimental thing but it stemmed from criticism criticism of the new that was flawed to make something new and good yeah how are we not at the point where we've basically proven that criticism and art history are like interwoven this they have to be they have to be what does it mean when you know Gordon Ramsay is going to a restaurant as a cook so you can't you know do the argument of like well he can't do it it's like well no he can walk the walk and talk the talk and what does it mean when he's being critical of his own stuff or critical of other people's stuff in order to help them succeed or push them in that direction even when his criticism a lot of the time it's fucking harsh it's harsh you know better people take it on board and run with it often uh do quite well people do this weird thing where they separate as if they're actually meaningfully different uh criticism that happens in the artistic like in the crafting process itself and criticism that happens afterwards you know it's like it's not essentially the same thing and like people go oh well the first one is obviously necessary because you need feedback as you're making it but no we don't once it's done you know fuck it even though that after it's done that feedback can feed into your next creation or you know depending on what discipline you're in if you're cooking right you try the dish again and it's like yeah no it's pretty good but you know don't you know you need to I don't know reduce this a little bit more or yeah you know maybe try this combination put a little bit more salt in it you know the efforts I've been putting into saying like you know the most important element of the critic is the integrity it's like similarly to an artist you might argue the most important thing is their integrity as an artist and I guess what I would say as a comparison to make this so very clear to the guy who made the video is that if you're presented with a guy who's like check this out I made you know um I'm trying to think of an elaborate way to be critical of food as a critic and you know like I have actually managed to cook up you know a version of their own food kind of like what Rami did right and and if it was presented as this is my critic format I take the food they gave me taste it if I think it's wrong I then re cook a lot of what they gave me to prove that even with the ingredients after they've been cooked I can make something that's much better you know what I'm trying to infuse is an artist right and then the comparison is that there's another guy who throws the plate onto the table and then unrolls a bunch of potatoes and puts like you know some mud on them it's just like this is different try it and it's like who of these two is the one that took them all risks or had more creativity and it's like well the critic obviously isn't because he's just you know fucking around but the artist look at this look at this poop with potatoes I just oh wow and I just hate potatoes and at that point it's just like depressing and you're actually like damaging what could be great critics from you know taking on their artistry and pursuing their careers and dreams just because you want to like sell the critics themselves a parasitic or you know it's just lame it gets around then it sounds like your critic does risk something they get risk being called a parasite I still like I almost want an answer from him what does it mean when someone watches the finale for Game of Thrones and then criticizes all the plot holes and then the second half of the video is rewriting it at their own whim of what the story should be is that now criticism and art or they separated as a criticism but while they're doing it they're painting like this incredible landscape you know like that's their footage while they're shitting on you know Game of Thrones and they make something beautiful yeah a happy little tree you know while they're talking about it because like sometimes I actually believe unfortunately that there are people who think like like Chris Duckman that his format is like the scope of criticism and that's it and it's like dude yeah it's like the shit criticism there's so much amazing shit out there part of the thing with Chris Duckman is that he's clearly trying to make sure he's on the good side of people in the film industry such that like he could work with them because that's what he wants to do because there's a taboo in a lot of the entertainment industry about openly negatively criticizing other people's work if you're in the industry I've always hated it because it seems like a sort of I don't know like a culture of sense a culture of censorship to a degree like all these people have negative opinions of movies but it's just like oh don't talk about it because that person might take it personally and then they'll never work in this town again or something you know what I mean you've never worked in this town again never well and of course I've been treating the statements and actions and creations from Chris is genuine but yes you could assume that a lot of what he said in the recent years because he's he's realized quickly there's like I mean it's not much of a coincidence is it that he makes a video about how we should be nicer to directors when he starts properly like directing how curious I don't know I find it so valuable so much of his work though it's just so funny to me that you don't need to watch his videos anymore because if he's talking about it he liked it because he doesn't talk about things he doesn't like well and I was about to say well you can find out the reasons like I mean usually half of his video is just saying what the thing was it's not really directed by this person and it was wow I don't know if he often says who was written by you know just a summary of like facts about the film rather than I think it was his Hill House review where it was staggering he talks about Mike Flanagan made it Mike Flanagan also made all these things I like Mike Flanagan Hill House stars this person who was also in this and then and then you're like wait a minute there's only a third of the video left what the fuck you haven't even talked about what it is like what the how does this work yeah and being someone responsible enough to defend something that is different but also valuable it is through so why not just valuable why do we have to throw the different pardon it's like I said he comes into this video with a premise but he didn't state the premise at the beginning so he just assumes we all agree with that premise that we're judging new harshly yeah failure to make sure that what's in your mind you got to make sure it goes into other people's minds you know what you're thinking like you said yes do the talking through the critics breath of knowledge and expertise of why something is genuinely good that empowers the trust in their voice but importantly it's like he's almost there isn't it he needs to think about this a little longer and then you'll come to the conclusion like wait it is all about it being good and bad it's not actually it's funny because that's where he started he was like it's not just about good and bad it's about new but every time he talks about new he also qualifies that's good though like so it's about good and bad I don't like this idea that you know if anyone out there focuses all of their criticism they devote an entire channel to singing the praises of the Lord of the Rings movies or something like that that they're missing half the puzzle because they're not going out to hunt down new things to also praise if they're good you know if you just focus on old things you're not really a critic because you're missing half the puzzle it's like what are you talking about yes I don't I think you could never do that and still be a good critic it's all about that scope shit I was talking about where it's like you know it depends on what they're trying to achieve with the video itself or the whatever format it is like you know is the guy who only talks about Lord of the Rings better than the guy who talks about all the film it's like well but there's a different goal there there's different things that are happening be the critic's willingness to lend their voice towards something that they recognize as being genuinely good even if others are scared to see it something that challenges current perceptions on what is art but that the critic can see for them I feel like that's just jumped in here when it hasn't been set up at all what is art yep you haven't done any groundwork for that that's that's a whole new thing a whole new paradigm selves will become something of great value in the future because it breaks the old ways of thinking for the better this is the only way something new can be discovered and what leads to word of mouth spreading this is the only way this is through critics don't know about that words are you just saying it's the only way through it being cheered yeah if you look at that point critics in the general sense of word of mouth yeah but at that point that's like saying it being shared is the only way for it to be shared yeah okay it's a little like that yeah about something different that people should try there needs to be someone bold enough to start the process because when someone recommends something you haven't seen before or talks about a new idea opinion or even just a social trend you in turn are about to discover something that is new and potentially good so this is kind of running back I think someone mentioned this as well as like the people at beginning of the video I don't know all the ones I'm familiar with I don't know any of them and there are people I don't like from that selection who I still think recommend things that are off you know against the grain or off the mainstream mm-hmm I don't know that this is a problem um as long as their reviews are good yeah that's kind of the key well someone that doesn't get acknowledged the so fucking true is the you're the stad of all the things that are released in mainstream these loads I don't even know exist yeah imagine how like is one of whatever even the most popular movies probably the case that even the most popular movies less than half of anyone has seen them there's a lot of stuff out there either and so when someone recommends you know a fucking a movie I'm trying to think of what would be a good example here like something that's mainstream but loads of people just haven't seen there's a lot of people they're like really the second busin boots movie I'm like no it's actually is really really good the lord of the rings I guess I'm super mainstream I mean super mainstream made about 20 years ago a lot I just a lot of people haven't seen and that's the thing I feel like it's the it's another form of cynical to be like you know what do you recommend someone goes Lord the Rings trilogy and you go of course you recommend that then some other guys like well I haven't seen it and then it's like oh well yeah good then go see it now now that you know about it and then that same dude is like oh well do you recommend something that most people aren't aware of and it's like that guy wasn't aware of it it's important that he should be made aware of it it's really fucking good yeah and then like it comes across as like snooty right it's like I don't like that you're recommending things I recognize like okay I'll do better next something that might I get the feeling that uh this isn't the topic that wanted to be I might be like pushing boundaries but this isn't the topic that this guy wanted to talk about because he keeps randomly diverting to talking about not art he keeps talking about like people and their personalities and social stuff it feels like he wanted to talk about that found a movie about art and then he keeps making non sequiturs to it it was just really frustrating no yeah I think you're right there's um we need some redraft and in this video is what I've discovered because is um I'll be overly critical now okay there's a core that's working and he's understood a lot about Ratatouille I just feel like there's a lot that he's missing and my god other side of the coin flip that coin look on the other side there's stuff on there be different somewhere in this video he has a line where he's you know artists in the creation of their art offer a piece of themselves and that's probably what he's using to like sort of go off into that territory but like I agree he shouldn't be spending too much time over there but also fun and something that eventually might become the new norm it is only in this way that risking to think differently that can truly make an impact it is only in this way that I believe should be the highest ambition and ideal for any critic for any medium now highest ambition for any medium and critic is integrity as far as I'm concerned make sure you stay true to yourself and the work itself I'm including like the accuracy part of that essentially in that this is the um I don't I don't care if you'd want to cover nothing but films with algeval snigger in it that's fine you go you do you just make sure you keep that spirit intact um and if someone else says like no they need to watch standalone films too I'm like no man they can just do sure snigger if they want that's okay try something new this is exactly what Anton realizes and expresses in his speech he comes to the sobering acknowledgement of who he is as a person and of the worst part of being a critic the very fact that a critic risks very little compared to the role of the artist and that the average piece of junk an artist can make will sustain more meaning than any criticism that he could conjure up with especially the irony of that this whole section that he's drawing that from is criticism is Anton criticizing himself he's just repeating the dialogue from the scene as if it's gospel but like that scene is flawed the scene is flawed like new things that is as a critic I once went to this this poetry over my slam thing in London um which is where you get to hear all lots of different people with their brand new ideas and the amount of sheer horror on displays is quite impressive like there's one person who stood up and said so I've been thinking a lot about words and you know like they connect together and just proceed to spend five minutes just reading off a list of random disconnected words and then fighting the audience to make a connection between them themselves according to that poetry now if you're a critic and you want to try and explain what makes art work what makes art not work they what are the great examples to look back to are you going to go to something like that or are you going to go and read I don't know wh ordinary houseman or someone who actually knows what they're talking about well which will be somebody who is old and established a load of new stuff is just meaningless garbage it's not and the critic will be much better served by and actually offer something much more valuable to the world by ignoring that and in favor in favor of understanding what about the old stuff really you know makes it click true not boo and piss what's the opposite of boo and piss yay and pee no here's who come he doesn't come yeah okay he doesn't come yeah he doesn't come to you he doesn't come yeah you weren't this makes more sense the more you think about it because how many famous critics like dud and cruga it does make sense and then it's going to not make any sense the longer you go it's like man this fits everything and then you're like wait a minute it doesn't fix you remember and how many famous hold on can we rewind that just a second sure man boop boop boop boop boop this makes more sense the more you think about it because how many famous critics do you remember and how many famous artists can you name that i don't think that's a good example that's not fair like that's not a fairy yeah um i don't even know that you don't have to conclude from that the artists are worth more inherently because of that you could also you could include you could conclude sorry how many famous firefighters are there like i know that you could be like yeah i was about to make surgeons even if you wanted to focus in on creativity there are a lot of people who just don't get known yeah famous contributors i know one favorite famous camera man yeah yeah this is a fucking horrible point how many people could name famous animators like compared to naming actors and then of course how many and what what are we to make of that what is the implication there that you know more actors than you do animators of the very right for sure of the very generously delivered if the world could actually name one percent of directors that are really great by the way as well that's another qualifier i'll throw in what does that mean about the other 99 percent that they're not with while yeah what is the moral message here as well was that you know if something is new and unfamiliar and different then it's intrinsically more valuable than something that's very familiar to you in which case if you know fewer critics critics are probably more important your critics really fucking funny too is the and i'm gonna point this at you if ab chat a lot of people in there they could probably name more critics the directors if it's potentially depends on how much time they spend on youtube like they might be able to have a youtube component yeah and then what does that mean the the critics of Ovali like what a stupid metric that annoyed me a little bit this point that fame any activity that comes with fame usually has a face attached to it and usually that face is it everyone included or the even sometimes the most important person a lot of times that face is like the 27th most important person well so like i said how many people could name like animators a lot like it's not often that people know of animators but like what what are we what are we implying because we don't know people's names yeah like next to animators you could have gone your amount of vfx artists that welcome these fucking mario absolutely yeah just get lost in a mad crowd i guess we don't care about them now they're not as artistic but the thing that fucks me off about this is like you could have come to the alternative conclusion which is that wow how unfair the critics don't get to be remembered as much as the artists even though they're adding a lot to the world to direct people to important artworks that they have artists works in the form of their review and it's like and nobody gives a shit because it's not seen as artistic which is part of the problem but instead he's concluded well there you go they're not very valuable are they it's like wow twist the knife why don't you history is not kind to critics because we as a society largely focus on great creations that come from great artists fuck you i have something to say about that that was a bad person that's that's sort of sorry but like sorry critics out there you don't make work that's greatly valued sorry you just don't it's like okay bud how many production designers can you name ah see history's not very kind of production designers because they don't make works of people value it's like no we do we just don't know their name we watch movies and go wow that's a great movie not everything that has value comes with fame it doesn't work like that yeah who invented the potato was it god like who even knows it was a very good reason for that these artists have dared to discover and find something new shut up like there are a lot of artists who dare to discover that's not even don't get remembered yeah well i was going to say the the key to being remembered as a director isn't making something new it's making something fucking great that's gonna be the key and even then even then you might not you might not well yeah well that so this is the other thing most people know the names of really shit directors too what does that mean how many people know who directed the lion king how many people could actually tell you who directed it despite many people saying it's like one of their favorite films well i don't even know then they don't know animation directors people don't know their names and then how many people know who directed oh i gotta be careful what i pick here actually how many people know who michael bay is a lot of people well i was gonna say like the room does everyone know who directed the room that it's like a lot of people do and it's like does that mean the room is fucking great like no but uh i don't know man like what what an ill-advised conclusion how have you not noticed at this point that your thinking is a little uh holy something different and to be valued this is the artist's noble ideal and it should be the same ideal for critics you know what sucks too is that like he's managed to convince himself that the artist's role is new and like creative when there should be a space in culture for artists that provide you something familiar and comforting and that they're important as well i don't know why we don't value those who like if you want to see a story of someone overcoming great odds in a very like well-known like i said heroes journey type thing there's nothing wrong with that the implication that's like you fucker you should be getting you should be desiring new experiences like what if i want that experience because of the fact it's so valuable to me a lot of creative people are just temperamentally inclined towards new experiences and they think that's all creativity is and they look down on anything that isn't that like oh you're just making paintings that you know people with no taste buy to put up in their apartments or something like that i'm doing i'm putting a banana on the wall that's new i'm familiar with that is an art installation but that's so funny like somebody's just doing that in their house so just just i'm putting bananas on my walls for years and no one ever gave me that's on the back for no one ever gave me fame but uh i don't know if you know jod but the the the previous 251 we covered a video that talked about an art installation that was blank canvases oh right yeah it went for a lot of money too uh it's the kind of shit that's just like okay this is a joke and that's the point of it right it's gotta be when someone dropped their glasses i think it was in an art gallery and they fell into a corner and everyone assumed they were an installation and started taking pictures of lost property it's like it's not art or creation but if you compare you know going back to the actual great artists the ones people actually remember the chances are they've spent the majority of their life learning older styles in order to innovate innovate off of those so any great renaissance painter spent years and years and years learning the styles of the old masters before they became what they did with that same thing with cinema like the most popular directors you know whether or not you think they make good stuff i think james cameron has a pretty patchy record but he's incredibly popular what is titanic what's basically romeo and juliet on a ship it's an old form in a new medium but the form itself is ancient and knowing that ancient form and it's enduring popularity is what allowed him to make such a wildly successful product the most great artists are not bold like inventors who create brand new things they just find no uses for all things and i think that's best accentuated by john williams going back to oh yeah uh goose stuff halts right like you would be among others someone could say like he's a fucking filthy ripoff or they could say he's inspired drives me nuts yeah let's think oh god that tries to be fucking up the wall if someone in a hundred years from now makes a story about a farm kid who wants to explore the galaxy at his sci-fi fantasy world a defeat like an overwhelming force like this is just fucking star wars like where it might be it might also be completely like original when considered alongside all the other elements that are involved in it like you gotta calm the fuck down that can be new as well the something that comes up a lot when we talk about different things the difference between ripoff and inspiration is complicated i'll admit the thing the very thing that makes john williams the most memorable probably of all the composers is you know that the use of the light motive but the light motive he you trace that back to monteverde and however many centuries ago that was and like it hasn't changed much in the basic form and idea of the thing but he thought well let's apply this much more rigorously and classically to film soundtrack and lo and behold he creates the compositions that accompany the best known works of film and in large part they're the best known because they have some of the best and most memorable soundtracks to them it's a really old idea but he just applies it in new ways also can i reverse engineer what he said in this video to chatify critics he basically said these guys work tirelessly to you know express themselves in their art form knowing they won't be remembered for it and good on you lads keep at it everyone's gonna shit on them for being mean but they do it anyway yeah meanwhile the artists of the world like i'm gonna get famous yeah and i'm that's why i'm doing it be while the critics know they can't get famous so they must be in it for the art form while we mine it makes me sorry go ahead no i just made it through on go ahead oh that's sorry i was just thinking of like fashion shows and i'm like that's a realm where maybe people should be not trying so hard to come up with something new because it feels like every outfit is just like trying everything that's conventional all the standards that develop for like film review to the average person maybe sounds as alien as it does to us when someone comes out dressed as like a half-eaten fish that is like oh that that's fashion like it is it's like i can't explain to you the decades of analysis the the fashion theory that would explain this but yes it's good you're like all right well they say that fashion is clothes that are meant to be more observed than they are worn right and i'm like that doesn't make sense to any other artistic merit because music is meant to be listened to film is meant to be watched like so people are like well you don't look at a picture then judge it on how on its use i'm like its uses i'm supposed to look at it like if you're if you're taking clothes and you're assigning a different function or not not assigning a different function but getting rid of one of its primary functions it being worn that that doesn't make any sense to me but maybe i'm just overly critical or out of time the image i was thinking of was that black latex thing that sam smith wore uh relatively recently where it's just like it's so ridiculous if you haven't seen yeah it's like bulging in all these weird places like it's inflated with air and it's like like you were saying like it goes totally against the function of clothing like you wouldn't wear that like so what so what is the point it's like deliberately trying to look top the other one in terms of ridiculousness it's why are we even doing this anyway i think to what's the point we're all we're all lucky that films are so expensive to make because it's part of why film hasn't gone off the same deep end a lot of other art forms have you say that as though we're not like driving off the cliff that is filled quality no you could be it could be so much worse i got you yeah like modern fashion and bananas on walls and stuff like that like the film film could be sad it's safer from that because it's so expensive to make no one's gonna just make the banana on a wall equivalent and put it in theaters i would say film has a reputation that is expensive to make a good film is not necessarily expensive to make um compared to all these other art forms yesterday's yeah i'm saying it has a reputation no it actually is expensive to make a feature film compared to clothes you said film a feature film that yeah well yeah that's what we're talking about is feature films and shows yeah those are expensive to make yeah i think what cap's saying is you're never going to see the banana on a wall equivalent coming out of disney or whoever and entering theaters like it's not going to happen they just no partially because they need to make money or else they're not it's the kind of it's the kind of thing where if it was submitted even disney would be like okay yeah but no it's sure but nah we're not doing that remember i see people in the chat are saying like the point of the fashion thing is tension and i agree with that but it's like i'm willing to admit that there's they throw the standard out of wearability or whatever i get it but that i assume the point being made was kind of like that's something you don't expect as a as a normal viewer entering that culture of like oh wearability is not important to the clothing okay and what is like what what are we doing here you know if we're just here same with it you could make a film with a blasting horrible noise and someone could be like that's unconsumable and you're like we'll know that's part of the art you're like okay i don't like it right we're gonna say something uh no no go ahead all right for critics while we might not remember the names of prominent critics we do however remember the names of someone that has recommended something that has pleasantly surprised us and that we've greatly enjoyed we remember that's someone who turned us on to a new show that's just our you're not just our ability to remember names oh yeah that point yeah we're talking that's that's not that's that's not an issue with the criticism yeah that doesn't do with anything really this is just like a a human memory association kind of thing do you remember the guy who picked up your hat when it blew off the other day like like maybe he didn't say his name he said no need to thank me anyway oh he had to do the hat and said hello i'm simon you're like simon yeah right when shady do rags when he when his do rag was on just a little too tight and it sprung upwards and shot high into the air and that one guy caught it forth the ground what was his name we'll never know he was gone before i he turned around to thank him but he was he was gone already gone like the wind was it vanished into the mist like was it an angel was it uh what like tears didn't rain no no no that's not the quote it's like burps in the wind i think that's what he says like burps in the breeze who i am is not important i go where i need it do you remember do you remember because there's loads of family guy stuff that i find hilarious growing uh the parodying it's american beauty and peter's watching a bag and it goes up to god he's like it's just a bag floating in the wind do you have any idea how complicated your circulatory system is even like even god would be like i've made some shit art but you've got to appreciate i've made some really good stuff stop i'm going for the fucking banata on the wall i appreciate the good stuff different than we now love we remember that moment of two discovering and finding something new that we like and it is in this way that we too should remember why being a critic can be a good thing you know what's funny too is like take boiling point we recommended the hell out of that it's relatively unknown it's very low budget compared to a lot of things that we often talk about and then um if this guy had said like yeah wasn't that great discovering something new i'd be like what do you mean by new because i don't know that i'd call boiling point new in another other than the fact that it was new in that i hadn't seen it before there's nothing in boiling point that made me rethink my perspective on film or anything yeah so you know i mean and it's like okay so it wasn't new and it's like well i don't know i don't know what is your definition of new video maker right i mean it's not the certainly not the fact that it was like meant to look like a one shot i mean that's not yeah i've seen that before as being a critic isn't about being negative or cynical for the sake of can you name a critic that would have said it was yeah like if i'm a critic and i just i just if you ain't shitting on something you suck it's all about shitting shitting everywhere that's what you do being pessimistic or being cautious or afraid of something that we don't know or don't understand it's about finding that moment that new thing that different idea which makes life good again but what if that new and different idea is negative what if i go wow i've realized the stories that are about like i don't know characters that try to achieve something and uh get it easily a shit is that okay am i allowed to have that conclusion or is it negative now so it's a bad one is that a new thing he's he said that makes life good again it's hard because he keeps pausing that could make life or good again this is going to be a bit difficult but what if you were snapped out of loving everything and you felt life became better and more meaningful because of that do you know what i mean like you watch everything and you love everything and then you're like one day you go wait a lot of this stuff is actually shit like actually awful it's embarrassing that i liked it and then you look back in a year's time you're like fuck i hated the time where i was just loving everything it was nonsense and meaningless but now i have this full palette and scale and it's way better one could argue like what was injected into that person's life it's like well a bit of cynicism a bit of uh critical thinking a bit of negativity and they feel their life was improved what about that i don't know i can't i have a hard time picturing it because i like i envy people who don't analyze every single thing they watch you do so i'm like i can't i can't just do that do you actually though if you could if you could flip a switch that makes it so you enjoy all media would you flip it no i would i would not flip that switch no well when i say i envy them i'm like i i would like to feel that joy they feel as well but i would not give up my it's red with red to do it oh he vaded he vaded what i vaded if someone no we're just it's it's fine it's fine it's fine it's just it's just why do you mock me so it's just how how mad are all of this gets i'm thinking about all the different things that have happened over the years oh okay it took me oh i know i see what you mean i say okay sharing that knowledge and experience with others that is the ratatouille way believe me though it isn't i've muted it we're good man i guess uh they would have monetized the fuck out of this or dem monetized it you know the ratatouille people i mean but the big is he a big channel maybe he doesn't even have to worry about that sort of thing he might have privatized it early and then like months early and then once like all the copyright stuff was done released it maybe that's that um a holy straightforward view on the state of criticism that lacks any and all sort of i mean i hate to use the word but nuance like better i think it counts as your own position come on yeah the arc he went on was that like yeah criticisms mostly about you know saying this is good and this is bad but there's more to it and then halfway through it's like like that's only half the like what's good and bad is only half the story there's a whole other side of the new and at the end it's like the most important thing is the new like he just like as the video went on it was more and more prioritizing that discovering new things and telling people about him that's what a critic does that's what a critic is that's what the essence of criticism is also he's got a video from four months ago called uh why tv shows are getting worse and the thumbnail says quantity over quality like hmm being a little overly critical there bud i also see that are quite often heimer doesn't cut the mustard an atomic misfire and it has sleeping in the courtroom with his glasses on that makes it look like he's awake oh it's boring oh come on man i don't know man is that the i guess that's the implication of home is sitting there with his glasses but yeah that's unfortunate it's cut the mustard a thing yeah you have the mustard yeah it's not up to snuff yeah it doesn't cut the mustard okay i get that up to snuff no fucking clue i cut the mustard means that i don't normally probably not a good idea because it's gonna confuse people but hey whatever if you want to use it um yeah well i think the i think the video as a whole makes like two major mistakes which is people for some reason forget that when you're doing video essays they're still essays and there are specific four formats to follow with essays one you gotta address points that could be used against you because if you don't you either look ignorant or you look disingenuous and this video doesn't seem to come from the perspective of new can be bad or that we we we have a hard it comes from the perspective that we have a harsh criticism on you so it's constantly defending you and that's the other thing you can't assume thing you can't assume that your audience takes your position on certain things there are certain truths in this world that we do accept to be true like gravity exists usually nice and fundamental but that's more of a science thing like like the basic structure of plot you know exposition rising exposition climax etc you know we accept that to be true but things that we don't accept to be true like you have to establish that at the beginning or somewhere throughout your video because if you just assume that premise and you go on that premise your audience who disagrees with that premise is going to be like wait none of this makes any sense what are you talking about so part of the issue might actually be that he feels like this is all very straightforward and intuitive i have no idea if he's ever thought about a lot of the equal and opposite counters or just sort of this whole obsession with new and has he ever interested like i think i think he would treat that as a given like we all value new things new experiences because we're humans and that's what we like right and this is like well his his deeper thought on that is what we fear it sometimes because it can breach order or continuity with uh our expected existence in this world but ultimately it's like you got anything else to say on that like there's so many other thoughts especially when he when he threw in that one part where he mentioned uh what would even can be considered or counted as art it's just like holy fuck you can't be bringing that in that's uh what's that is a variable i don't know if you want to talk about it but that's complicated yeah you can do it we'll do it i don't know no yeah and i don't know that um the ratatouille fully supports a lot of the points that he was making as well as a lot of the points the ratatouille itself was making um which is arguably a hot take as well but hey uh the video wasn't the worst thing ever it was all right it wasn't the worst video that we've covered at all no wasn't even close yeah chat be nice i feel like it could have been at least 10 minutes shorter because like a lot of it especially the end was just repeating the same thing of like discovering the new and we should do that like he kept it felt like a lot of but like i kind of sorry what a lot of what you cut out oh sorry uh rephrasing the same essential point of like critics a critic's job is to defend the new and so okay i get it says is nothing more important than finding something brand new yeah just didn't find a brand new thing to illustrate the point with but you know right um which wraps us up on that video is there anything else anyone to say about it no um no it's not it's not it's not bad it's not the worst i've ever seen yeah maybe we want to be overly critical okay gotta be constructive non-negative this was a new experience for us covering that video and that in and of itself is beautiful if you think about it at least learn and i watch a film that's really really shit i might just be scared of it so i'll have to you know reevaluate where i'm coming from i mean i do agree that critics should look beyond like convention in evaluating new things that come out but like he's sort of he i feel like he thinks critics have this bias against new things and they don't really for the most part i don't think like i i feel like this didn't really need to be said i don't know in my experience i find that a lot of people who are professional critics watch way more movies than the average person and are much more prone to criticize things for being unoriginal than the average person would it's almost the opposite problem right well that about doesn't i'd say beautiful incredible what's everyone's opinion on lion king one and a half you never saw that never saw it yeah it's a it's a fine movie to put on for kids but it's a downgrade from both one and two did they actually call it 1.5 or whatever one and a half one and a half depends on the region some places called it three but yeah america called it one and a half that's lame goldblins in wales and then hang on i'm gonna cover down every goddamn time we know what rags is talking about you know he's just so goofy looking i want to hug it so i'm gonna be honest what what i meant then i didn't need to take this negativity i'm going quit make it out and go to space don't go to space this is obviously referencing to uh good ol asoka for those who haven't caught up should be watching the e-fab tv episodes you foolish fools if you haven't yeah foolish beautiful bae and art work we're all looking very uh beautiful oh is rags supposed to be ripped there or those breasts no i'm ripped he's ripped yes i'm ripped i'm ripped super strong so goofy so going to manus is not funny yes but don't go to space thank you very much and i was going to say that uh we're probably going to wrap up there but before we do i'd like to say thank you so much to shady do rags for welcome absolutely brand new episode brand new guest appreciate you he's a lot of fun talking to you and you want to tell the audience where you're at what you're up to and and what they can watch of your stuff uh yeah yeah i had to mute my freaking mic because i was coughing oh no i did want to interrupt okay hold on hey hello how do you do shady do rags here welcome to e-fap we're ending where you can find me is on youtube.com slash at shady do rags uh i am known for reviewing cartoons i recently hit 200k uh and i went on break recently so there's not much there's not much from september but after that i got sick so i should be returning soon uh you can also find me on twitter uh i don't know what my twitter is hold on you can find me on this somewhere whatever my twitter is i'm there uh i think you turn it on twitter.com slash twitter.com slash shady do rags yep there you go that's definitely me uh if you're interested in king of the hill or superhero shows from the 2000s or pretty much cartoons in general i do talk about that stuff uh my audience will probably tell you that they really like my uh and analysis abilities comedy and my uh appreciation for uh morals because i do talk about morals and how they affect us in the world named three good morals name three good morals yeah uh gravity exists i would say uh be a good person there you go that's beautiful bad person oh and don't pressure people to think of good morals on the spot yeah don't be overly critical don't over criticize all right no you can be overly critical you can definitely be over overly critical especially if ratatouille you have to be able to admit that ratatouille is meant to be a good critic that's i'm sorry that's the that's the stand well links in description and in chat and uh yeah thank you very much um for coming on next up to say thank you to of course would be uh mr little platoon thanks thanks for joining us talking about criticism and all that stuff i would say and we'll say uh let's talk about your channel and what you're up to though i imagine e-fab chat are very familiar with you at this point but that won't stop you and nor should it what are you making what are you up to uh no thank you for having me back yeah as soon as this is finished i'm going back to fighting copyright on this mandalorian video which was supposed to be out a month ago and then today and still isn't so yeah that's going to be hopefully out tomorrow a nice little four and a half hours of being overly critical of the mandalorian so um that's what's coming up next you've learned what's us dad are you immediately jumping into a soak about each other i really shouldn't for my sanity but probably will yeah well uh thanks of course once again for joining us we are always happy to have you mate um well uh john what are you up to tell the good people of the world oh well uh people know me for everything the chief i'm still making those i made a new one called chief's big weiner parts one and two i just put part two the other day i didn't know chief had a big weiner i'd always he does i've always like imagine that he probably would but yeah it's very big and he becomes prime minister of canada be so big because of yeah because of his big weiner yeah so john graham on youtube um don't criticize me though because i'll leave it's positive i have feelings so criticism is bad and mr capital oh opinions always a pleasure what are you up to well thanks for having me believe it or not devs four is almost done and we'll be out soon oh my god that's a terrible fucking tv show correct i'm gonna be overly critical about it before then probably we'll probably do a stream on our channel talking about the creator new sci-fi movie that just came out which i haven't seen yet but assuming it's any worth talking about at all we'll talk about that on stream i've been hearing rumblings rumblings about this film yes rumblings indeed not the bad rumbly good rumblings you know good rumblings yeah that's kind of rumblings uh i think drink us for today so i will be seeing what he thought of it soon enough to get an idea of whether or not this is a movie for the ages or we should be overly critical of it i don't know it really matters how much it's new i would say that's really the defy the citing factor um well uh rags ringing anything you guys want to mention um no not in particular no not really uh well you know the deal i'm just currently presently working on uh asaka e-fab tv's and they're on the end uh yeah and moeller is helping me finish them off so i'll um i'll may as well go over this the schedule at this point yeah okay uh and funnily enough this'll this'll include some cap work here as well right so we're we've just crossed into the first in in british time which is actually the expected date for the release of soul one which was edited it essentially exclusively by cap i think i did some extra copyright stuff which i had to do for all of the sores just because of how much of a monster youtube was specifically with sore um don't know why they're desperate to keep a hold of sore or something don't want people to know the truth um particularly i think episodes episodes or movies four five and six i think you'll notice that the copyright in it is excessive but i had no choice um it was it was actually getting to the point right did i not link you uh for me uh they did like a four second one or something it was insanely small yeah um so i had to go heavy with uh protection compared to something like a soka where you guys actually get to look at you know a scene almost sometimes and it's like whoa look at that a scene um so you get in that i was about to say tomorrow but for me it's technically today the day after you're getting sore two that's just how this has worked out day after that you get an asoka episode five but now i'm starting to rethink and we might it might be five and six together because then it would be a week and you'd get seven and eight together which is the plan because we're trying to keep the fuck up here we've we i was about to say we fell behind but that's really not true they released them too fast they released two episodes and that put us behind right from the outside we also had to edit the video the star wars is never going to grow up yeah that was a bit of a detour and then it's just you know it takes it takes some time to to make these so yeah give me an idea chat and this is a genuine question answer honestly would you prefer it that we released like asoka episodes individually but stacked together in terms of like you know the third is one the fourth is one the fifth is one the sixth is one like the days of october i mean or would you find value in them being packed as in like five and six together and then seven and eight together and don't say you don't care i'm trying to figure this out got us the same video right but just releasing on the same day it's kind of why don't you like do a poll well because i can read your individual together wow are you keeping track of them i'm not gonna i'm not gonna determine it based on like down to 50 what does that are all i can already tell you're comfortable with this imprecise way of doing well yeah because i was curious if it was going to stack one way the other will go in in the middle and it's it looks like it's mostly in the middle a lot of people are saying together an individual and so it's hard to say well i'll have to figure it out i'm not sure i'll talk to rags and fringing about it we'll figure it out no worries folks but that's right your fate's in our hands the the truth of it is that by the eighth right by the eighth you will get saw one saw two saw three and then asoka five six seven and eight right the one week you get all of them which is very why very why i'm tired this is very why on the seventh there's not going to be a mainline efap episode because you get in all of them and it's going to be my birthday stream as well so i'm going to stream a game who knows what it might be might be a heavily requested game who knows but i'll try and do a big ol long stream and um yeah you got loads of stuff to come and that's just this has been non-stop editing in fact this stream should probably end sooner rather than later because i gotta do a few hours on on a soaker episode five make sure i can get it out for tuesday at the very least um someone said last of us two no i can't wait to see mauler play the last of us two oh boy i've been chomping at the bit to see him play that i've heard it's really good and forever for anyone who doesn't know uh yeah the souls are releasing across the month and um there's 10 in total though there are 10 saw movies yes actually as of two days ago i think has anyone said anything about it i haven't seen anything about sore 10 peep there's some it's getting some praise yeah so finally enough if you want to talk about you know critic reviews on rotten tomatoes and everything oh my god it's uh it's high compared to the whole films oh god could it be a film that we actually had to say is good at the soul franchise i don't know i don't know that would be pretty funny excited uh well yeah so anyway that's it for us we're still um obviously doing super chat catch ups are in their own format they release every well jesus christ there's gonna be like an upload every day uh on the mauler channel at this point yeah fun with that everybody don't complain don't you don't complain i saw you miss to gilbert put it in the super chat saying man e-faps are so short lately the fucking yeah like you got so much e-fap fapping everywhere this was that's what's like over five hours sorry it was it was odd if it's not 11 hours 11 minutes it's short it's true yeah it seems that way um but yeah you gilbert on that note about that uh that's that's that's that we're gonna gonna head out so um thank you all very much for joining us thank you for the kind donations and messages and just uh hanging out with this video but for now we're gonna say good night and goodbye little bit yep everybody see you later bye bye