 Okay, so a very late start, but welcome to the Jenkins governance meeting for June 1. We have going to get this wrong in Basil and myself. And I guess we have some news to go over. So two areas of news. First, the 2.346.1 LTS has been delayed a few weeks to offer some time to address regressions. But we've got some additional content coming in. We just finished the second round of back wording today. Many thanks to Alexander Brandes for doing these back ports. And we're looking like it's in good shape for 2.346.1. On the weekly side, we've been doing some improvements to the Docker images, and a lot of UI regression fixes that have been in flight. So many thanks to everyone that has been developing and reviewing and testing regression fixes. It's really inspiring to me to see all of this community effort going into stabilizing this release. So that's been in flight in the weeklies. A couple of smaller changes in the weeklies that might otherwise go by and noticed are that we finally disabled the and class loader by default, which was a longstanding project from last year. Does it affect any users at all? Or is it just internals? No, it's all it's all internals. Although there is an escape hatch in case it causes any unforeseen regressions, but it should, should not cause any problems as far as we know. So it's purely internal change. But so there's that and then there's also the only other thing that I felt interesting enough to mention was that I noticed the other day we're still running on an older version of juice. And could you some help upgrading juice to the newest version? People who are regulars to Jenkins core development might recall that we were behind on Boava for a very long time. So I would hate to see this being year one of another decade of us being behind on juice. So it'd be great if Finland was interested in trying to complete that upgrade. That's an area that we're starting to fall behind in. But other than that, the other week we started looking great. So for people like me who don't know what juice is, what does juice do and how can people help with this? Well, it's the, it's a way of injecting Java classes into other Java classes. It's a dependency injection system to allow one Java class to access an instance of another Java class at one time. And that's what actually one of many such dependency managers that we have in core. We've also got another one called says pause that does a similar thing. And I think the, you know, the, like with all of these older parts of Jenkins, there's not a lot of knowledge left from the original authors of the code. And so this is kind of an area where being able to read the code and explore and teach yourself context from the existing comments and from the existing commit history and from the existing code. And that's going to be a very valuable skill to have. And that's an area where there probably won't be too many people left that can help. But once, once someone does build up that context, we could then kind of recover from where we left off and make sure that it gets passed down from one person to the next going forward. There's like, like with the end class loader stuff, there's a lot of historical research there that I think would be needed to work and that's what makes it a non trivial thing to upgrade. Yeah, there's also testing, I assume would be a great people who can run. There's a Docker image for running PR testing but you know windows never gets enough testing so anyone who has who can just volunteer some time to run the builds, it's probably also very useful. Yeah, yeah, in this case the, the automated core PR tests, failed on the upgrade so it was something that we caught very quickly rather than, you know doing manual testing but manual testing would not hurt either for something like that. Yeah. Cool. So for the project side. Oh, I want to pause there. Did you want to talk about any news more again. I don't have any news this week. Nothing comes to mind. I'm a little not organized as I usually am so yeah. Okay. So for the, on the project side we're getting closer to June 21st, the June 21st weekly, which is when we plan on requiring Java 11 and unlike the AMP class loader change that will affect end users. We are looking pretty good for a delivery on that date. There was a block or bug that we discovered that has been fixed and backported. So we're looking, we're looking to be in good shape for that from the perspective of core and another small announcement is that we're planning on taking Java 17 out of preview mode. At the same time. So, I will be planning to have full support for Java 11 and and set and preliminary support for Java 17 and upgrading from upgrading Java 17 from preview mode into something that we would feel more confident, recommending that people use. We're not, we're not going to recommend anyone use 17 yet but if they are using 17 it probably should work. Yeah, and not only that my my experience has been that 17 is typically more stable than 11 and all the testing that I've done. For example, this blocking bug that we discovered that had to be worked around in pipeline groovy and script security that only affected Java 11. In fact, what I did was. I know in for a guy hit by that as well so. So what in fact what I did upstream was to backport the change from Java 17 down to Java 11 so I think for the most part, I would expect 17 to be more stable, but I think 11 has had more testing. Yeah, so basically my plan is I think we are recommending that people use Java 11 but if you run into a problem, it may very well be fixed in 17. So I think the key one is we no longer have to tell people not to use 17. Right, right. The other part of the Java 11 work is this. I think we've had to adapt a lot of plugins that were lying on it so there's three left that have more than 500 installations that have not been adapted notification plugin I've been working with the maintainer who has already merged the poor quest but is struggling to release it. So hopefully we should get that released soon I think it's just a matter of resetting the credentials with a solo seek out. I'm going to adopt that plugin myself and then merge and release the fix. I think that should be taken care of soon as well. Then there's HP E a live plugin, and we got a response from the maintainers and they plan on adding Java 11 support by the end of June, which goes well with our dates that we've picked. So, I think we're in good shape for Jack speak compatibility for any plug in with more than 500 installations and for the plugins with fewer than 500 installations. We have submitted pull requests in many cases but sometimes these pull requests have been ignored. So, if these pull requests don't get fixed by September we're most likely just going to deprecate those plugins formally. But still give people some still give the maintainers a little bit more time to update them. So that's really all I have for I am objects. Totally on board with killing old old plugins, they cause a lot of support, both in the plugin site and the farm stuff so anything that's been long abandoned and not used I think we should be more aggressively killing. There was a there was a great example of that we certainly with one of the front end changes to improve form validation. We did a code search and discovered that it would break a very old plug in this part of, of improving that form validation we're going ahead and deprecating that plug in I don't remember the name off hand that. There are a lot of examples of that and I think it's a good pattern of development that we're starting to see where it's all right to evolve core and to leave certain plugins behind on a case by case basis, but along with leaving them behind communicating that through a formal deprecation is a good way to set users expectations. Yeah. And I think we, I mean as a group we also need to push pipelines more. Because I think a lot of those old plugins are designed because pipeline didn't exist. So like there are integrations that are just freestyle in nature that don't make any sense in pipeline and you can work more flexible in pipeline but they still exist and people use them so I think we can do a better job of being hey, yeah, learn, learn new things. Not, you're wrong. I want to stress that freestyle is not wrong, but we could do a better job of being hey, these things are going to be make your life easier. Yeah. You know I think some of our, some of our users have a lot of jobs running an older job types, and it can take a long time to rewrite these older jobs but as, like you said it's an exercise that's well worth doing from a support ability perspective. Yeah. Cool. That's all I have on my side. Yeah, so I can cover the other two topics here, not as well as Mark could, it's kind of, I'm kind of a mismark already, but he's just taking a week off to spend with family so you can't really, you know complain. So she she code Africa that contributes on is now complete. There were a couple of posts on the, like retro type posts on the form so people posted you know what they learned, you know, what they get what skills again to the are that kind of thing. They're very nice to see. And I guess as Mark wrote a comment here he's going to write up a complete blog post within are for the, like a wrap up. We also summer Google summer code, we had the four projects selected, they've started to kick off. There is there currently in discussions of essentially where they're going to be doing most of the communication. It sounds like there's a split between getter to more gear, getter channels and a couple slack and CF slack. But you know they're moving forward and you know all the mentors are very excited. And then for for forms and community topics. I don't really have anything this week. There was a call out on the forms for any help topics people had. I'm just going to say this really quickly while we're waiting. We'll add the, I'll add the Thanks for she goes after for these posts. And then there's one. So people are just looking for help. Yeah. So if anyone has blog posts. For YouTube videos blog posts. But otherwise it's been fairly quiet and new content, a lot of questions. I'm expecting our June 21 one would be a messy form stuff, but mostly we just tell people to upgrade and we should be good. That's usually will upgrade the plugins both before and after upgrading core. Yeah, I think that's really the big message. And Yeah. So I don't have anything else this week it's been pretty quiet week. Great. Oh, there was. Oh, the other thing is intra is where we wouldn't put up the top. Infra had a couple outages last week. Intra had a couple outages. Make sure so we got to make sure that we status that Jenkins that IO needs more visibility. Don't know how. Thanks to Tim and Damian for quickly working through and all the infrastructure team for quickly working through the release problem that we had this morning. So if we've released the weekly successfully. Nice. Do we know about that one. And then package. Yeah, so I gotta, I gotta actually say this out loud, not just write it down. Update updates Jenkins IO had an outage this week. As far as I understand it has something to do with the signing certificate not afraid to be asked for the actual internal signing that got tracked down and fixed up, but they're, you know, it did happen and then packages. Jenkins IO mirrors Jenkins IO. They got moved into our normal infrastructure with the actual the mirroring software that actually does mirror properly. There's a few issues to do with a GPS there. They got fixed relatively quickly but you know there wasn't outage and it didn't get documented. Yeah, it was a good, good week for everyone but we do, we did find a lot of people just didn't know to look at status. It's not something that breaks were often. So, we got to figure a way to make that more clear. Yeah, I see. So, so the, so the status page was up to date but people weren't able to find it or didn't know that it existed. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, so we have the status page and keeps track of all the different stuff that infer exists, and there was an issue with packages you can see yeah, we had the various things, but no one knows it exists this page because we don't have very many outages no one knows to check this when there are issues. Probably updates is in here as well. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if we're linking to this anywhere but yeah, that was one thing. Getters someone said is like, we should probably put a link to it on Jenkins IO. You know, I don't really know what else we do any ideas for anyone. I mean the only two of us on this call but if anyone's been watching this later, any up any suggestions on how to improve that communication pipeline, be pretty good. We could have like a dedicated Twitter account for status updates, but that might be overkill. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I don't need it too often. Yeah, I mean the number of actual issues is, they're usually generally pretty low just needs to restart once in a while. The last week has been a little rough, but then it goes past there it's like 225 days ago, you know 30 days ago, and most of them are just issues with the main CI service which is just gets so much traffic. Right. Oh and Artifactory that we don't, we don't maintain. Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, I don't, I don't have anything else to you. No, thank you so much. Thank you for your party now. I think somehow. And no, I don't want to do this I'm just going to end the meeting. So, bye.