 in the league for 17 years. He's a champ. He was defensive player of the year. He is meta world peace. He also was in Indy for all star weekend. It feels like forever ago already meta, but you were in the celebrity game. So we're going to start there. Take us through. How was it? Yeah, it's good to be back. Thank you for having me. The game was, it was interesting. I only had like four points. So, you know, Steve, they set me up the game a little early, you know? So I got to talk to him about that, but it was fun. I got to talk to him. Yeah, talk to him. Meta world. You said Stephen, they served you out to leave, man. And with that, Michael Parsons was able to go off a 37 and 16 being a former defensive player of the year. How you left, how you let Stephen, they get away with that and you let Michael cook, man. Yeah, he definitely was cooking. He got bounced. So he was on a fast break, went up off two, banged it. I'm like, oh, OK. I did block his shot twice, but he's a big body out there. He was just, I didn't realize he had 37. And the other kid could play two of the kids stout. He was, he was all right. Oh, yeah. CJ Stroud was, he was there there. I mean, the NFL guys were kind of it without them. I don't know about them. It was another, it was another kid, too. That was a running back that went up off two and banged it. I was like, oh, Kuba Nukua. Yeah, he was good, too. You know, it's funny, but he was telling us he was that if he was in the NBA game tonight, he would give 15 points. And then he got 16 in that game. And we were all, we were all dying. Like, yeah, it's not so sweet, isn't it? Look, you see how your face was mad at us? That's how we feel. Maybe two. Maybe two. All right, two. Yeah, maybe two. You were also, you praised Jaylen Brown for doing the dunk contest. And obviously we all want to see all the big guys compete to bring that back to what it used to be. Who else would you like to see next year kind of bring the dunk contest back to the main event? Yeah, Jaylen was incredible. I shout out to Jaylen for even, you know, lending his stardom to the dunk contest. We need that, but I would have loved to see LeBron. I know some people said that LeBron can't dunk. He don't got no style. But I thought he would have had, like, you know, kind of rocket behind the back type stuff. But obviously he's getting older now. So I think, like, I would love to see with Mianna in the dunk contest, you know, get with Mianna in there. I think she'll do something special. I mean, Michael Jordan was in the contest. Dominique Wilkins, Clyde Drexel, Kobe Bryant, like, you know, we need, it got to be some, at least two or three stars got to get a dunk contest. At least. And I hope the people mocking Jaylen Brown, for whatever reason, isn't what tells them not to, because we just didn't enjoy the All-Star Game at all. We wanted to go down memory lane and have good memory. So 2004, let's take it back to then. You were in this one, the West Wind, Shackets, MVP. What was that All-Star Game like being in? Yeah, that game, well, I'm still salty. We was the best team in the league, right? So I wanted to finish the game. I felt like I was the best small fold in the league at the time. So my coach, so Coach Carlisle, we lost that game. I didn't want to lose that game. So Coach, you know, Coach Carlisle put in, I think Vince was starting that All-Star Game. You know, he was voted in by the fans. So I didn't start, even though I was the best small fold in the league, I mean, on the East at that time. But I felt like I should have finished the game, but we lost and then I was salty. I remember the first shoot around we had, all the plays was, all the plays, like in the morning, I kind of had a shoot around. I was working out and other than huffing myself. Oh no! Yeah, I was working out. I was getting ready for the game and it gave me, I had seven points and we lost. But it was a really good experience. I ain't even realized, Shacket got MVP. It was kind of a blur. Well, I want to just bring up one thing and I know Lou's got a question about All-Star, but the shoe thing that you did in this particular All-Star was you wore different shoes, two different shoes, and you changed shoes. And word on the street was, you were in the market for a new deal, shoe deal. Is this what's happening? Are you auditioning? Yeah, the company, everybody kept trying to market me. And I'm just like, y'all don't have enough ideas to market me. You know what I mean? I just want to sign with y'all and y'all. Y'all marketing department move to the side and then let me do what I got to do. So when I couldn't really get that type of deal, I just was wearing whatever shoes, you know, and then, you know, we were from there, but I was always one of my own shoes and wanted to be created with the marketing, you know, sometimes these marketing departments kind of caught me. Meadow, I wanted to ask you about All-Star Weekend because I know how competitive you are. We've been teammates and I've seen you getting guys' face during practices. And, you know, All-Star Weekend is obviously different. It's a time to have fun, but it's missing that competitive balance. What are you, it was almost 400-point score in this last All-Star game and a lot of complaints were coming out from the fans. What do you think's missing from a player perspective to get this game back where we can have that balance of fun and understanding what it is, but also getting that competitive spirit back in the game? What do you think the game is missing? Yeah, it was like even the speed to a pull-up jumper, you know, even if you gave us that, like if you went hard left and pulled up, I would have been like, oh man, that was dope. They wasn't even giving us that, you know? I mean, it's not gonna come from the players. I know when I wanted to, when I played in that game, I was trying to come in there and win. You know, you want to go out, you want to go out with a win. You're not gonna overfow, I mean, you're not gonna overplay, but you're gonna do your best. And it was, it was, I left early. It was, the game could have been better. It was, it was kind of disappointing. It's kind of crazy, because you just mentioned the fact that during warm-ups for 2004 game, you're over on the side doing your own thing. So clearly it can be competitive. It's just, I don't know, this generation maybe doesn't have it. Victor Wimbanyama, though, seems to be cut from sort of an old school cloth, at least when he answers questions. He's averaging almost 21, 10 rebounds and three blocks so far. And he's got that thing where, despite all that, he really hates that they're losing and the team is not where he would like them to be. How long before you think this kid is, is the best in the league? Yeah. And I think also, I mean, back to the All-Star, I didn't really care. I think they should, if you don't want to play, just say it early. Yeah. I don't want to be an All-Star this year, you know? All right, cool. We don't need somebody to be able to want to play, you know, but, but yeah, but Wimbanyama, and I think he'll be an All-Star probably, you know, maybe even that shit depending on the first round pick they get, but definitely within two, three years, he'll be an All-Star then he'll fill out. And once he starts filling out, then you don't have more, he don't put on five pounds, he don't put on 10 pounds. Then now you're talking about Giannis, Giannis came in slim. Giannis, you know, he couldn't move anything. Yeah, you know, he bulked up. So I think that's what you don't get from women, Gianna. Ooh, ooh, ooh, Quintana. There's been four quadruple doubles in the history of the, David Robinson was last, I think in 1994. Is he the next one to do that? Cause I feel like we haven't really even talked about this happening since Wimbanyama. Yeah, I know. Now he's incredible. I already see the problem out of the head, like, you know, you gotta hedge, you gotta tag, you gotta guard them. That would have been super difficult. And yeah, I think he'll be, you know, at some point in time, he's gonna have a world-chambering type of season. At some point in time, we gonna see something that's gonna be boring. They gonna try to change the rules, you know, because he's gonna be in a rhythm. He gonna be thick, and you're not gonna be able to move him at some point. He's already durable. He's fallen, he's not sprainin' an ankle, which is like incredible. At seven, six, you know, seven, five. So I think you'll see some quadruple doubles. I think you'll see dominance. And don't let him get some shooters around him. Once he gets some shooters around him, you know, they're not even talking about, like Stephen Carrier on his team would be incredible. So he'll be dominant for sure. Yeah, that's what I would be kinda touched on. I was gonna ask one-on-one, how do you guard him right now? Do you just get physical with him, trying to deny him the ball? Like, how would you take on that matchup tonight? The only thing you can do right now is you can push him. He got that big step he'll take around him. So even, I think even in my prime, he would have been taking these huge steps around him, but you could definitely catch him early while Wally's young and he don't really have it all. It's similar, like when I caught KD in 2010, he was young in that playoffs. You could tell he, it was certain things he wasn't doing that he's doing now, or he was doing in 2014. So I think we got a small opportunity to catch this kid. Maybe first year in the playoffs, you can get him, because he'll still be new to the playoffs. But then at some point, it's gonna be over. Wurl, I remember you saying, Kawhi Leonard and Tyrese Maxi, two of your favorite guys in the league right now. Walk me through what you're seeing them and what you love about their games. Yeah, man, I think that's what Maxi, at first, I thought he was six, seven. I found out also a weekend, he was only six, two. I thought he was six, seven. So I think his defense, his energy. So he's given that energy on both sides. And I mean, I'm kind of, I got a soft spot for that for people that's given out all that effort and then going in buckets on the other end. Somebody told me to watch him a couple of years ago. And then I finally watched him and I was like, oh, I see what they're talking about. Somebody said he was playing defense like me or something like that. So I watched him and now he's averaging, I think 20 plus 28, something like that. So he's a scorer on both sides. And I think he'll be a first team or NBA guy. He'll be a dominant figure. He's quietly one of the best players in the league because people are not talking about him like they're talking about other stars and he's better. I think I think he's way more dominant than a lot of other people. All eyes on him too now, for now. So yeah. Oh, I want to ask you about certain players in your career. Is there a list? Is there a short list of guys that you just remember you could just lock up any game, any time? Yeah, yeah, I try to put names on much, but anymore. But I think like, there was a lot of guys I was locking. I was at my prime defensively. So you guys think about it like when I was playing, it was some of the best wing defense. So and people talk about it to this day. And it was up there with the elite offense. I mean, I wasn't able to like dominate a Kobe. And me and Kobe actually, my prime, we missed each other a lot because I was suspended. So that whole, you know, me and Wade developed a quick rivalry in the East. We took them out early on. You know, I was going Wade wasn't necessarily going me. You know, it was a lot of that going on. You know, when I was playing against like, you know, other guys, I would guard them, but they wouldn't guard me. You know, because it was just too, I was too big for them, honestly. But I think, yeah, I was locking up quite a few people that was coming into the coming into Indiana. But after Indiana, you know, I was after I left Indiana, I gained a little weight. So I got up to like 260. You know, the whole thing happened. So I was kind of in a bad mood, you know, in terms of working out, but I was still able to still me first even on defense, but I wasn't locking up. Like, I was still playing really good defense though. But a lot of people that came into the building, it was actually a, I don't like talking the trash part, but just to see what I did sometimes, I'd be like, dang, you know, five points, seven points. Wow. That's good. It's good to look back and be like, I was awesome. Yeah, because in today's game, you got a lot of, you got a lot of stars in the game is played completely different how it was. It felt like ages ago, met him when we was playing and it really wasn't that long ago. But you know, you got guys like an ant man, you got guys like Kawhi, who are physical guards. Are you locking that up too? You said what? Oh, I got some clips. So I do like, I watch YouTube, right? So I do got some good clips that I was, I was measuring, you know, how I would, I mean, Kawhi had like short live moments. I remember him being, his rookie, I remember him doing stuff. And I was like, oh, I was like, this kid front pivoted. I didn't expect the rookie coming in, catch the ball and then do a front pivot. You know, I didn't expect him to be that smart. And I remember that pivot. I was like, oh, he got some stuff with him and then it shows he got every single pivot, you know. So that one would, I think that one would have been a little, I don't know if I could have locked that one up. But we didn't have some, we didn't have some battles in the post where I had the ball and, you know, I was a little bigger, you know, at the time. So I felt very comfortable at times also with people that I couldn't necessarily just lock up, you know, but then Kawhi would have been a tough one. There's just a couple of people out there that would have been a tough one. But in my prime, it would have been a nice battle. I mean, you know, your numbers against Kawhi ain't bad. So they're not shabby at all. I want to talk a little bit about what Charles Barkley recently said. He says a lot, but this was specific to Kevin Durant. And he said that he's just not a good leader. What does that mean to you? Do you agree with that? I mean, I think with Durant, I'm not going to say he's not a good leader because every team he played on, I didn't hear not one issue that he's not a leader. I didn't hear anybody complain about him. You know, you hear it sometimes publicly, like this guy's just not a good teammate. So I think he's a good leader, but in terms of like, he had to go to golden stage, right? To get his title, even though he got MVP. So you got to respect that a little bit because Kawhi is probably going to finish top 10, top 15 when it's all said and done. But him going from OKC, put a little asterisk in people's minds, I think, but he did get to the finals, you know? And he's a good player, you know? So I don't think he's as vocal as Kawhi was. But when you look at like Derek Fisher or even a Yao Ming, Yao Ming didn't talk much, but he led that team. Kevin Durant's a winner. So I think he's the leader, but not everybody's going to be loud, you know, like a dream bond is a leader with his voice. Ben Wallace was a leader with his activity. You know, I was a leader with my activity. I wasn't saying much. You know, I think Kevin Durant has, I think he is a leader. He works hard. And that's half the battle. Reggie Miller was in the gym at 3.30 a.m. I'm sorry, 3.30 p.m. before the game. So he's on the court at 3.30 p.m. before a 7.00 p.m. game, which is like, that's leadership, right? But Reggie wasn't out there screaming and all, you know, doing the stuff that Kobe would do. Yeah, so on the Kobe thing, because it is weird. I mean, we define leader so very differently across the board. And you mentioned the fact, Kobe was more of a vocal, loud leader. Did he have a moment that sort of stood out to you that just was like a leadership moment that you will always remember? He's more about his action because Kobe wasn't necessarily, he'll give you confidence, but he'll get on you before he gave you confidence. We expect you to be in the gym, so I think just as being in the gym at 5.30 a.m., he worked, 2010 he was in the gym hard. He's working hard. He was, you know, getting his working before and after. I mean, I remember one day he came back to the bench and he was like working so hard in the game when he was like drooling, maybe Lou was there too, buddy. He was just foaming and drooling at the mouth like he was going that hard. I think that's leadership to me. And he shows by example, so even in 2010, when he had 25 straight points, you know, we didn't say much to each other during that run when he scored 25 straight points, but you can tell he was, he wasn't doing that game. You know, so I thought like stuff like that is enough leadership for me, you know, to just see that and just go do what you gotta do now. You know, the Lakers recently revealed one of his three statues that's going out, going up outside of crypto and the first one they chose to be a moment from his 81 point game. Did you think that was the right choice? I mean, that's a good choice. That's a good choice. I mean, he had all the moments, he had the moment when he won his fifth title, you know, but that's the one that Vanessa said he won it, which is like really interesting. I thought the one when he won his fifth title, where he was talking to the fans, he just spread it out. I thought that one would have been dope, but he had a lot of good opportunities. I love the fact that the 80s on the chest and his number one sign is up. So that's kind of synonymous. It looks like it's number 81. It's huge. I thought it was a good choice. You know, I'm sure some people wanted an action shot, but we'll see what the 24 one has, because obviously the one with Gigi is just going to be done. Yeah, yeah. Meta, you also recently posted your top 10 players of all time and you had Karim, number one. What was your reason for putting him, obviously, at that spot? Who? You had Karim, one, right? Yeah, so I changed my, I always changed my top 10 up. What was it, all the time? Or X? But honestly, because I feel like everybody's top 10, you know, you're not giving, you're missing some people, right? We're missing Karim. Sometimes you miss Hakim. People miss Duncan all the time, because Duncan quiet. You know, and then people miss Bird. They forget that Bird was better than a lot of people. Bird career ended early, but he still got three finals MVP's. I think even three NBA MVP's, you know what I'm saying? So you can't just eat that. That easily say that Karim is better than Bird, you know, because Bird career didn't last as long. He was playing in flip flops. Y'all know that he's playing in flip flops back in the day. So these players, they think they tough. If you tough or better than, you know, the old school, go play in those conferences for a season. Right. Let's see how tough you are. Let's see how tough you are here. In flip flops. I think you had tough. And then the one I saw too, you had, you had LeBron at number four behind MJ, and I think Kobe. What was the reason for that? Yeah, there it is. There it is. Very burly. Yeah, this is not a bad news. I feel like, you say what? Was it? Oh no, I'm just laughing, because we got the list now. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, I had to put a date on it because it changes a lot. So I put a date at the top. But I think like, but I think LeBron is dope. I think sometimes I think MJ's put, MJ got six titles and nine scoring titles. You know, so I feel like, you know, when you talk about individually, MJ was just, he had, you know, definitely had the charisma and had to gain. His game speak for itself. That's why he's still selling so many shoes. I think LeBron, like LeBron, he very well can be number one because his stats is also insane. So at that point, you measure his stats at that point. Which one do you like best? Do you like the six rings? You know, with the nine scoring titles, or do you like, you know, LeBron James number one at scoring and all that stuff? I think MJ might edge it out, you know? And I, but obviously LeBron, to be top five, top 10, that's incredible. Yeah, that's pretty insane. We love stories about sort of how life is for our big guys when you're on the road, all that good stuff. Mario Chalmers was recently talking about how LeBron would take teammates out to fancy dinners. Love the idea of that. Is that, did Kobe do that? Or was he sort of doing his own thing and you guys were left alone? How did it work? Yeah, Kobe took his hour and hour Kobe one time, I think, to dinner. But some people will go out with him. I think he did have a group, but we haven't been out like, you know, fancy dinners. We probably went out a couple of times. But that seemed, you know, everybody would be, we would get into a city, get to an hotel and people would just go, there's separate, you know, a couple of groups. Every now and then you get together. I think Luke played golf a lot when he would get it, I think. And I know Lamar and Luke and Jordan would go out a little bit, but yeah, never, I don't think I played with anybody that would take us out. Yeah, we would go out with him. Maybe, but not really. When you played on the Lakers, was there any celebrity court side that kind of, you know, you were a starstrucker, blew your mind that you wanted to impress a little bit more than the average fan? I know, it's true. The first time was always the craziest if you played LA. You know, the first time you'll see, you'll see Jack, you'll see Denzel, like, all right, cool, I got to do my thing and maybe I can get an acting role. Everybody trying to act. Everybody trying to impress a producer. You know, you see Transformers, producers, executives over there, you're like, all right, cool. I'm going to hit a three. They going to like it. They going to offer me a movie role tomorrow. I'm going to play it. Just that easy. Bro, the current, the current Lakers. He's never got a movie role. No, I mean, I'm just saying it's LA. Let me ask you about the current Lakers. They sitting in ninth place right now. Brian and 80, do you feel like they got enough firepower to get to the Western Conference finals, sitting in that ninth spot? Yeah, I think they for sure got enough firepower. I think they need to get to the playoffs because, you know, I think for them, this regular season, you got to play, you got to run, you got to chase all, chase all these plays, these other players. I don't think the regular season built for this team because it's a marathon and they need a short marathon. You know, they need to play off so they can go all right, get that rest. And especially if you run into some of these young players that's going to make mistakes, you know, some young players going to turn it over in the end, you know, they're going to get nervous. They're not ready for the first year of the playoffs. They got to run up against them. They got to run up against a couple of combinations where, you know, you can get a five in there. You got two rookies or two young players that never been there. Then they could creep by, you know, because obviously you want to make it to Denver. But I think they got the team. They came into this season and everybody was saying they had good shooters. They got a better shooting team. So that don't change in the season. Sometimes it changes with a feeling or with your rhythm. So I think like, you know, they can do some things. They got a nice big, I like Hayes. I like, I know Woods, Woods haven't been playing as well. I like Den Whitty. I like that addition, but they don't have to post a magic out of a hat, you know, to get to the Western Conference finals for sure. But it's looking like when the play-in started, I was a little skeptical. I didn't like it. Now you're looking, especially the Western Conference, this year, it looks like it might be the Lakers and the Warriors. Who right now has that better team and who do you got when in that matchup of that were to happen? I think right now the Warriors are on an incline, you know, and they got a swag about them right now where it feels like they're a top five team in the West right now, you know. So I think they're ninth, they're in 10th place right now, but I feel like they're a little bit better than that. I think the Lakers sitting in, you know, number number, number, I think number nine, you know, I think they're playing like a nine, seven seed right now, whereas the Warriors is playing like a six or 50 right now. So they definitely gonna have to get a hold on that one. They can beat them. I think they did it one year. They can for sure beat them, but the Warriors on an incline right now and the Warriors are looking like they trying to compete with the Clippers. They looking like, you know, they got some pieces back and, you know, with Stephen Curry, he can come out of that thing at any point in time. Can't count stuff though. I got one more question, but all year long I've been seeing that, you know, the Timberwolves and the Thunder, they're the one and two seed right now. Do you think those are the best two teams in the NBA at in the Western Conference? Like do you think those are actual final contenders or do you like the Nuggets, the Suns, the Clippers, these more experienced teams than them in the postseason? You know, I think those two players are serious. You got an SGA who is one of the most complete players. So his game was talking for itself. You can't really stop them. And then you got an Edwards who's at some point, people call him like the next MJ. I got to watch him a little more. But also, when you get into the playoffs, if you're young, if it's your first time, yeah, you can be the best now, but maybe not in the playoffs. I remember when we was the best team in the league, the regular season, Detroit beat us in game six. So, you know, we wasn't quite ready to take it to the next step. So I think right now, yeah, I think they are the best team, but in the playoffs, it's gonna be their first time. So they didn't answer any questions, you know, and one of them have to lose. If they go to the finals, I gotta say a lot, but if they don't go to the finals, that's just gonna say it was another young team. And the next year they'll be a little bit better. I just want to point out to the record that, Chandler, you were sort of leading the witness, the way you added words there at the end to make sure that we went this way. I know what you're doing, Chandler. We're not counting on them yet. This is my last question, and it's a simple one. A lot of talk so far. LeBron James, was there possibly a trade? No, maybe. Will he retire a Laker? As of right now, I think, yeah, I think LeBron will retire a Laker. And I do spectrum, I do Laker TV, so I do a lot of stuff with the Lakers. So I definitely would like to see him retire as a Laker. Obviously the craziest things has happened. But I can't see him not retiring a Laker because he's born a championship here. He got them back in contention. Remember the years after we won in 2010? We had like down years after that. We didn't go to the playoffs or anything. So whatever you want to say about LeBron, they're getting into the playoffs. They're not getting into the big game, but they're getting into the playoffs. They're competitive every year. You got to prepare for the Lakers. You can't just go into a game and not prepare for the Lakers now. So I think LeBron loves that Laker. The weather's great. And then he's one player away, right? He's one player away from playing well because he's still playing at a high level. He is. So I can't see him leaving. He is. I still got him a Metawell piece. We appreciate you. Thanks for coming back. Hope to have you back soon. We'll take a quick break right now. Come back, wrap things up.