 Okay. Welcome to the Monday, November 15th meeting of the Montpelier design review committee. I will let committee members and staff introduce themselves. Benjamin Cheney. Meredith Crandall staff. Steve Everett. Martha Smirsky member. Liz Pritchett. And Eric Gilbertson. I will let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures and process at this time. Right. I'm going to keep this fairly brief because our remote attendees are all members, but we may have some people watching via ORCA that want to log in. You never know. All right. For some reason it's not letting me do the slideshow. I'm just going to scroll through this. Interesting. All right. So for anyone who is viewing this meeting via ORCA media, you can participate in the, in this design review committee hearing via the Zoom platform. And you can do that using this link here. Or you can call into the meeting and plug in this meeting ID. If anyone is trying to log into the meeting and is having problems, please email me at this email address. That way I will get noticed that someone is having issues and I can try and walk you through it. Most of the rest of this, everybody knows who's on. Just a reminder to please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. This will reduce background noise. If anybody who's watching via ORCA does log onto the meeting, please remember to wait until the chair recognizes you to start speaking. I'll be keeping an eye on the Zoom meeting so I'll know when you pop in. And if you do have comments, make sure to introduce yourself with your full name and your street address. That way we know where to send any, any copies of anything. And also that the Zoom chat function should be used only for troubleshooting or logistics questions. In the event that the public is unable to access this meeting and I get notification of that through email, the meeting will need to be continued to a time and place certain. I'm going to hand the meeting back over to our chair. At this point, we just need to approve the agenda. Do I hear a motion from committee members to approve the agenda? So moved. And I second it. Okay, all in favor of the agenda, speak your names. And Steve, so the agenda is approved. Unless anybody has anything to add at this point, we can go to the first application for 130 Main Street, the Unitarian Church of Montpelier. And why don't you come forward since you're representing the church, you can come up to the chair and round table position the microphone as you need to so that you can speak right into it. That way the people attending remotely can hear you and anybody on Orca on the recording and introduce yourself for our audience. Yes, I'm Barbara Connery. I'm a member of the Unitarian Church of Montpelier. I'm here to represent them. And go ahead and describe your application for our applications with it is a historic building 130 Main Street. And we have been down a long process trying to revise our HVAC system, our heating air conditioning, not air conditioning, our heating system so that we can bring in some outdoor air as a result of COVID. However, we discovered that our existing heating system, half of it is in the basement, which is in the floodplain. So therefore, everything that we put back into the building, anything we revise needs to be in above the floodplain. So that means that we are putting in a whole new system for the historic portion of the building. That's just a little bit of background that that doesn't actually affect us in terms of this application because everything on the heating system is internal. But what we also wanted to do was to put in outdoor air because there is none supplied currently and makes it impossible for us to get back into the building. So as a result of that, we've worked with David's late engineering and developed a whole set of plants, which we hope to get bids on in the near future. And part of that is to put in some new louvers of both an outdoor air intake and an air exhaust from the building. So if we start at the beginning of the application. So if you look up there, just tell me where to go. Okay, let's just start at the beginning. That I think that is the first beyond that's the existing building. Obviously, this is the main street side. And so two of the louvers, they are going to be located in the steeple. Right. And so right now, she Meredith is kind of hovering above that. If you're going to this next one, there is actually three blank windows up there, which we have actually discovered, or in fact, not windows at all, but just applied trim outside of the building. So we are going to cut openings there and put a large louver behind it and be able to bring in outdoor air, which would be ducted down or just come into the into the steeple area. So that is one of the louvers in the front of the building. And then the next one on that this is the existing side of the building. And then if we go to the next one, this is the north side. Yes, those three smaller, similar, however, those actually are currently open as louvers, we would be taking those off as exhaust air louvers. So it very similar to what's happening on the front side, there would be a louver behind it, a large mechanical plenum behind it to draw air in so that therefore we can sort of utilize the steeple, but without going all the way up into the upper part, which is which already has wooden louvers in it. We didn't want to disturb that part of the steeple at all. So maybe before I go on, any questions about this area? Anybody have any questions? Is there a guess? What are the louver materials? It's a metal louver with fixed fins on it. We can get it painted. I was assuming we would paint it black since the panels that are up there currently are black. And so it will look particularly on the north side, which already does have some louvers in it. It will look very much the same on the main street side rather than the flat panels that we can see there now. A flat black panel, we would be seeing black louvers. Have you thought about using wooden louvers? Yeah, actually, the engineer said we couldn't do that with the available area because the free area required means that you have to use a very thin material for the louvers themselves. And because they are so high up off the street, we really didn't feel that it was going to be visually objectionable. Are the louvers fixed or movable? Fixed. Okay. And they're quite deep. They're three inches deep. So they won't look unlike the big louvers that are on the steeple up above. Yes. Right. So they'll be set behind the arched openings. So none of the trim will be affected. That's correct. Yes. Okay. Okay. Should we proceed on to the so that is one set of louvers. And then on the north side of the building, this is the side facing away from school street. This is the 1983 addition to the building. And you can see that it has, you know, contemporary windows in it. Some reused arched top windows that were repurposed from the existing from the original building. And so the proposal here is to put two louvers on that side of the building, one above the other. It's essential that those two louvers be 10 feet apart, because one is an intake and one is an exhaust. But they will be the same size. We propose to trim them out with wood in a similar way to what the window trim is, which is a pretty narrow profile. And again, you can sort of, you can see from this rendering here that the louvers, the horizontal louvers on those will be this bowl as well. Barbers, Eric, the drawing actually shows these vents projecting out from the building. Are you talking about the engineers drawings, Eric? Yeah. Yeah. No, that's just the the plenum behind. They would not. They would be flush with outside of the building. And in fact, the engineer is required to make sure that they're sealed. You know, we provide the casing trim. They're going to need to make sure that it's sealed to that trim so we don't get any leakage. Okay. Just one drawing said I'm sort of a larger grill projected. All right. No, I'm quite certain that they would not be. Is it one of the I think he's maybe talking about the combustion air intake. Oh, okay. Yes. That's that's a different situation. So, Eric, were you talking about, um, hold on, I'm trying to scroll. I know that we're talking about this, the combustion air intake hood. If you if you go down there, actually, there's a drawing that shows it. Keep going. Oh, this one. There you go. Yep. Okay. Um, yeah, that's just an oversight. But good. I'm glad you caught that. No, because all of that transition and everything would happen inside the building. In fact, he's very specific. He does not want it to be underneath the drip. I would think. Yeah, and there's nothing to support that duct work out there. So, um, good catch on that, Eric. I, you know, I've looked at these drawings many times and never picked that up. I think Steve, I think we should have a condition that the louvers be flush. Anyway, she isn't going to affect anything, but no. Right. I'm going to scroll back up to the other. Was that drawing the intake hood that's showing there? So, yep. No, the drawing here. You can look at this right here. Section six. Oh, sorry. It's hard because my it's slow. So underneath there. See how the ductwork pokes out of the side of the house. It's just a mistake in the engineering drawing. Okay. Yeah. What's the number on that section? Hold on. I've got to move my You mean the number on the sheet number? No, just on that. The drawing itself below looks like section five five. Okay, great. I can't quite read it here. Yep. Nope. Section five. Okay. That'll just be a good way to just to identify it. And particularly when we in. Yeah. So all the louvers will be flush with the building. Yes, except for that combustion air louver, which we'll talk about next. Right. Well, the hood. Yes, that's right. I mean, actually, you're right. That's a federal descriptor for the combustion air is a hood. Yeah. Yes. Which is this one. Yes, as you can see, it's hard to see the size. But that would be a six inch duct coming into it. So it's it's actually pretty small. Eight by eight, I would say. So it's not going to look unlike kind of a residential size. And I was realizing as I was looking through the packet tonight. Yes, that here it's shown on the North base itself. Unfortunately, there was a later drawing. I actually emailed it to you. It didn't come through. Oh, I got the email but there's nothing attached. Okay. All right. One of the because we talked about this quite a bit about not wanting to see anything more on the north side of the building. And so what the proposal now is is to take that louver and turn it 90 degrees and put it on the short projection of the wall right there. Exactly. Oh, so it'll face backwards. It'll it'll face towards the rear towards the right or west. And it'll be flush against that short section of wall. We felt that was the least obvious place to put it. And also we showed it in a later drawing painted black, thinking that that will also make it more inobtrusive. We have other toilet room vents around the building that are painted out with the siding would also be possible to paint it out with the siding. Probably would disappear if you plan it painted it out with the siding. Yep. Yeah. Because it'll disappear in that corner. Yes, I think it really will. Because the other thing too is that we've discovered from from Audra that the the outlet needs to come out two feet above the floor level inside the building, which puts it at about the third third course up of this wide flaming. So it'll actually have to be higher than what's shown here. Okay. And so we also felt that if we had to make it higher, we could turn it than it would be really inobtrusive. Does that make sense? Everybody? No, that certainly does. How wide is the siding? Siding is about eight inches. It's quite large. If the unit's eight by eight, if you tuck it into the profile of the siding, yeah, it would almost disappear. Almost disappear. Yeah, it may be 10 inches. I but it's it's definitely bigger than the face of the of the louver. Okay. The hood. Yes. Well, in that location, nobody's going to see it. Right. We hope not, Eric. You know, I just said there's a parking lot back there. But if you know, it's it's not going to unless you go looking for it, you're not going to find it. And I guess I would ask to the grills, the larger grills on that side of the building. Would you recommend those being painted the siding color? I would. Anything you can do to make it less less less less the same as the color of the siding will make it disappear, I think more than painting it black or anything else, regardless of whatever the louvers are, if the louvers are black, but if there is a frame around it, or even if the louvers were painted to match the building, I think it would make it disappear as much as possible. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering too. I'm not certain if we can modify the color of the louvers. But at least that trim around the perimeter, you could paint it again if that in any way shape or form could fit in to the horizontal lines. In other words, line the top up with the lines of the siding again, and paint as much of it as you color it to match the siding, I think would make it disappear as much as possible. So you think Matt actually painting out the casing trim as well to match the siding would make it less obvious. Yes, it wouldn't stand out, I would just tend to disappear into the into the siding. The on the lower floor, the intention was to have that louver, the top of that louver match up with the window adjacent to it. I think it may actually be possible to do that with the upper one as well. It's just we're coming into that critical 10 foot separation. Yes. No, I would whether you match it to the window or actually if you keep it up as high as you can to the freeze board above it. I think would give it I think that would make it again less obtrusive. Okay. Barbara, this isn't a design review thing. But the air intake we talked about does snow pile up there? Or anything? Are you talking about the combustion air intake? Yeah. Well, yeah, it does. But now that it's going to be five feet off the ground. So I just wanted to I don't know the building out well that yeah, make sure it wasn't going to get blocked by snow. No, that's good, because yeah, there was definitely a roof that dumps snow there. So, you know, the fact we have to raise it up not only to flood level, flood plain level, but in fact, two feet above flood plain level is in that case, a benefit. A little less shoveling. Yes. Yeah. I assume you absolutely. That's something that has to be clear. During the heating season. If you raise it up, it's actually above the sill of the window anyway. And so you if the snow got that deep, I'm assuming you would remove it anyway. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I can't remember ever seeing the snow get that deep in that particular area. And of course, we have to cleat the doorway clear. Yes. Is anybody else on the committee have any other comments, questions or suggestions? No. Okay, if not, I can go through the criteria. I have one more thing is that I would suggest using a flat back paint on that on the louvers. That guy in the front. So they're not so they're not reflective. I added that into the recommendations that the flat black paint recommended to avoid any reflective issues. So through the criteria, number one, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. The removal of historic materials, nothing is being removed. Character defining features, finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize an historic building shall be preserved. Deteriorated character defining features shall be repaired. That doesn't apply here. Any treatment that causes damage to historic materials, including but not limited to chemical or physical treatments such as sandblasting shall not be approved. The installation of these louvers is acceptable. Existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of their time place and use. Any new development shall be differentiated from the old but shall respect to be compatible with a massing size scale architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties. That's acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, mechanical equipment, trash storage and fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately screened from public view acceptable. Architectural features including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building. That's acceptable for this application. And all in favor of the application, speak your names. Eric. Ben. I say yes. And Steve. Yes. So the application is approved. Thank you very much. Do you want to explain the next and sign this once Steve does his thing? Okay. And then I'll take it back. And this doesn't think this requires site plan or anything. So I should be able to get this permit out pretty quick. Just sign it right below my name there. So the because technically design review doesn't cover color anymore. Oh, really? I think that you know, the the input you got with the recommendations of having it match the siding, you know, you can go with that. I can't. I can't. That's not something I can actually enforce anymore under the zoning regulations or the way the design review regulations got changed. But I think it's a really good recommendation. Are you adding that in? Yes. Yes. So he's gonna add that in as a record is a is an option sort of right. So recommendation. So just yeah. Yeah, so it's not going to be else to match it. It's the flat black would be on the upper and the steeple and then the louvers and exhaust hood on the side of the building. Anything you can do to match the color of the siding would just make it disappear as much as possible. Yeah. And if we cannot change the color of the overs on the north side would flat black be the best? Yes. Yeah. Okay. But we will put the casing trim in the in the siding color for sure. Yes. Draw it out. Yep. Yeah. Okay. And so that'll be a recommendation on here. Won't be listed as like a condition of the permit. But yeah, that's gonna be on there. Okay. And you'll get a copy of this form as well as the permit. Okay. Thank you very much. You're welcome, Barb. Well, we said was just done for that north wall. We just said the louvers on the north side can be made less obtrusive by using a flatback black color on the louvers and any trim be painted the same color as the building siding again just to make it disappear. Excuse me, Steve, did you put in there that they should be flush with the wall? That drawing does so I'm projecting. Yeah, that one drawing. Yeah. Oh, yeah, he can't hear you. You have to be right at the microphone. We can in the building. Yeah. And again, the louvers would be flush with the building wall. The intake hood obviously can't be but again, that's very small and tucked in the corner and we'll be painted out with the siding siding. Yes. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. And good luck with your project. Has anyone had a chance to look at the minutes from the November 1st meeting? Yeah. Any questions or comments? I move that we accept the minutes for the November 1st meeting. All in favor of the minutes. Speak your names, Eric. Ben and Steve minutes are approved. Does anyone have any other business at this time? Adjournment is the only business left. Okay. Do I hear? Do I hear a motion to adjourn? That was one. And I second it. All in favor of adjourn, but speak your names, Eric, Martha, and Steve meeting is adjourned. Next meeting will be Monday, December the 6th. Great. Thank you for coming. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Bye bye.