 Good afternoon nerds and welcome back to Barcelona. We're here at Mobile World Congress all week live on theCUBE. My name's Savannah Peterson and I am so excited for this next segment. I'm a hardware nerd if you know anything about me at all and our next pair happens to have the hottest piece of haptic hardware at Mobile World Congress. Jeff and Michael, thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having us. Well first of all, hold up these cases in front of us so that everyone gets a chance to see what's going on here. So a lot of talk about connectivity and cloud at the show floor. We are going to be talking about keyboards which is very, very exciting. I can only imagine what it's like for you. You just announced this product in January, sold out pretty much immediately, started making more. What's it like being here in Barcelona? Jeff, I want to start with you. It's been an absolute tsunami. We launched clicks, the brand, the company all at the same time. The response to the first keyboard for iPhone has been just unbelievable. You've got former keyboard phone users that have this latent love for buttons that are just so elated that there's a product. Latent love for buttons, I love that. And now you've got this new generation of iPhone users that are experiencing their phone in a whole new way. Couldn't ask for anything more. Yeah, Michael, so we call you Michael Fisher, but you also go by Mr. Mobile. I do indeed. Every so often. Every so often on YouTube. Couple million people might know about that. What made you get excited to make this product? Anybody who has watched that YouTube channel understands that I cover things that are unconventional and that are specialty. And the more I did that, the more I liked it. And so when the opportunity came to contribute to a project, that is the very definition of unconventional and special. I absolutely jumped at it. So this is my ninth time in Barcelona as media, as my first time as a co-founder of a hardware outfit. And I would not have wanted to come here with anything less iconoclastic than this. It is extremely iconic. And what's really interesting, I learned just talking to you guys in the green room before the show, the idea for this came together less than a year ago. It was last CES who started thinking about things, team formed in April. Jeff, why is this team so uniquely poised to be able to deliver a piece of hardware to market, essentially in less than nine months, which is unheard of, frankly. Well, you're right. The product came together in less than a year, but the concept is like 15 years in the making. If you look at the team, we've got people- Ever since we lost our Blackberry? Well, that, yeah. And you pointed out that the depth of the team is just unprecedented for a hardware tech startup. You've got people with consumer tech experience like Michael combined with manufacturing experience like the team from FX Technology. We've got the industrial designer who built the original Blackberry keyboards, as well as an advisor who's spent 10 years with Apple iOS product marketing. So when it comes to building a keyboard in the most iPhone way possible, there isn't a better team to have done it. I think that's really compelling. I mean, I've done a lot of manufacturing and have a ton of supply chain experience. Nine months is usually about as fast as humanly possible. You had an MVP in weeks, it sounds like, essentially. Which is- Yeah, I mean, it was CES 2023 when the idea was first floated. It started with some soapstone models to see, you know, would this feel right as a mobile device in 2023, 2024? And what was your initial impression? When I got a prototype, you know, in the summer, late spring, summer sometime. And my first impression when I saw the image was like, you insane crazy bastards, I love this. Well, well, as you told me, Michael, when we were chatting, the first thing you said is make sure I'm the first person who gets the exclusive to review it. Can you imagine having such a lack of force? Because I'm right here for you. But what almost immediately happened is that I was giving so much product feedback so many times per week when these calls with Crackberry Kevin, our fellow co-founder, and it's like, yeah, you know what? This makes no sense. I need to be involved in this directly. And that happened very quickly. And then I got the prototype and we're typing away on this thing in Brooklyn, walking around with this stretched iPhone, the very different keyboard configuration back then, different materials, different everything. And I'm doing the thing that I love most, which is focusing on the tiny little details. Like, hey, that semicolon isn't really visible from off angle. Like, can we change this key shape? And is the inner key, does it have to be that big? And you know, that's been the real fun for me. Go ahead, John. I remember one of the real cut-through insights that Fisher had at one point in the process, we wanted to get the balance right. Because when you add something- I noticed the balance right away. I'm glad you brought that up. Keep going. When you add something to the chin of the phone like this, you know, some people think it's gonna be top heavy. And early on in the process, Fisher said, well, you know what, I think we need to add just a little bit of ballast in the bottom of clicks just so that it has that right balance point that it's not gonna tip over. And so that was one of those things that we really obsessed over, getting the weight right, getting the click right, the feedback, the actuation pressure, the travel, the pre-travel, all of those little things that go into perfecting the keyboard. And that's really what the last six, seven months of development was all about. And even the details I noticed right away when I put it in my hand, soft touch on the side and hard on the back. Liquid silicone and polycarbonate. Yes, it's a match made in heaven. And you just like the excuse to say that, John. Yes, I do. You really do. Real recognize real on that one. But the design, you bring up an important point. The design was so important to us because we didn't want to create something that felt like a third party aftermarket accessory. We wanted to build something that felt like a natural extension of iPhone. Like it was a device, that it was solid. And that's one of the things that people observe when they first pick it up. They go, this doesn't feel like an accessory. This doesn't feel like an afterthought. It feels natural. And it doesn't feel janky. I think a lot of aftermarket third party stuff. I mean, you and I have both touched a million consumer products that were single use plastic for all intents and purposes. And this really does feel rich. It feels nice. It does feel like an extension of the device. I think that's so important. And I love that when I saw the images, the photos, when all the press came out back in January, I was expecting it to be top heavy. Everyone does. I was very much expecting that. You put it in people's hands and they grab it. And the first thing they do is grab it like they grab a regular iPhone. And when you ask them 10 seconds in, how does it feel, they realize, oh, I expected this from the photos. I expected this to not feel great, but I'm just holding it like I normally do. I'm like, yeah, it's amazing how that works out when you go through, I don't know, 100 iterations of design. Exactly. And it's not just a keyboard. We were playing with it. It's got all the Apple shortcuts that you're used to already, which is pretty cool. It's one step further than just the literal. I'm going to hold this up. We are going to have a demo on our website with a close up. We'll show you how this haptic feedback works. But this is Ty. Is this your dog? That's my dog, Ty. Yeah, three-legged dog from Thailand, hence the name. Wow. Gosh, you guys are just a story that keeps writing itself. I wish, will you be able to see when we zoom in? But it really is incredible. I'll try and type a little bit for you here. It really is incredible if I can spell, which I don't know that I can. Oh, I'm not typing. Oh, you don't need text for this, yeah. Whoa, perfect. That said, then I don't have to be able to spell. But the haptic feedback is so nice. I mean, I was an OG Blackberry girl like I told you, I'd seen a lot of microfluidic products that were trying to do what you're doing here without being just literal haptic buttons. You crushed it. There's so much you don't consider. Like when you're designing it, there's like activation pressure you mentioned, Jeff. It's like the difference between 130 grams and 150 grams. It's like, you don't think about these things until you have to. And then you realize you get another variation back and you're like, oh, that's too steep. We got to go back. It's not enough. Yeah, yeah. What's that thumb roll off like and all this kind of stuff that, you know, again, it's a real privilege to be able to focus on these tiny little details so that when you put it in people's hands, they actually are, they're not even surprised because they just expect it to feel that way. And then it does. And I think that's one of the things. Which is the best. Yeah, it fits. That makes the Clicks team so unique is that we're able to build a product quickly as a result of the deep experience. Like, you know, we have the people who've made the best keyboards in the world so they can guide us on how much actuation force is needed so that it feels right, but doesn't make your thumbs tired. And when we set out to build this, we didn't want to build a time machine. We didn't want to try to recreate BlackBerry or turn your iPhone into a BlackBerry. It was this healthy tension between how do you build something that people who love and appreciate keyboards from the past will gravitate towards, but also create it in a way that it's going to feel natural for iPhone users, native iPhone users that have never seen or touched buttons in their lives. That's right. There's a lot of factors there. And I mean, Michael, you are the ultimate power user. Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for noticing. No, but I can imagine, I mean, I'll speak for myself rather than project on you. I would have been a little obsessive about it to try and figure that out. And to have folks already on the team, I love that you call them CrackBerry, Kevin, who have had decades of keyboard experience. It's not a simple one-try thing. How many iterations did it take you, even with that amount of expertise in-house to get to what we see today? Well, I was doing a lot of shooting. You can talk to the total number probably, but I know I myself went through, I think five iterations carrying around in Brooklyn, filming, using in different conditions and stuff like that. That was probably sort of getting a new one every three and a half weeks or so for a while there. Yeah. But I think the total number is about a hundred. I think between July and launch in January, I think we figured we made about a hundred different product decisions, whether it was the layout of the keypad. So that was something that we actually debated a lot. Should the keypad be laid out more like an iPhone, virtual keypad that iPhone users would be accustomed to with numbers across the top, or should it be laid out more dialpad style a la previous keyboard phones? And that was one of those things that we discussed and debated extensively. We prototyped different models. Like what would feel the most intuitive for a phone in 2024? And yet we were able to move very quickly, which is very rare to be able to move that quick and yet have that many iteration cycles in such a short period of time. That's a good example of us kind of having the right team for this because for me, somebody coming from the BlackBerry, like I wanted that numeric keypad because I am an old guy who wanted a Palm Trio again. And then when it was explained to me that maybe the smarter idea is to emulate the virtual keyboard as closely as possible because we're making an iPhone product. And I was like, I don't like that you're right, but you're right. Well, but that just goes to show how collaborative your design decision-making process was in delivering this product to market. It truly is quite the dream team of people to make a keyboard for iPhone. This is a fantastic product. How do you become a company? What's next? From day one, we never wanted to just build a gadget. We wanted to build a business. And so when we look ahead, there's a number of different vectors that we're looking to build on. Distribution's a big one. Right now we're focused on direct to consumer, but in the wake of CES, we've been inundated with interest from all of the retail partners you could imagine, the carrier channels. They're all clamoring to get their hands on clicks because it's just such a natural add-on for an iPhone. So that's certainly one path we're going down. We've got a really robust product road map for additional models we're going to support. We're already working on what clicks for iPhone 16 will look like. New color families, new features, new capabilities, lots of innovation. And then if you think about what we've done with clicks, we've built an engine for launching specialized consumer tech products to market. And so you could imagine using this blueprint, using this engine to find new specialized smart tech accessories and smart tech opportunities and create more devices and products in the future. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a really interesting sweet spot when you combine industry titans and legends, like are on your team, with creators like Michael, who have really touched thousands of products in the space. Exactly, no, I mean that's the nice thing is that I can kind of be an internal reviewer. And I think I enjoy doing that a lot more than even the element of adding visibility to the product. Because once we launched it, it was like my, that role was over for me. I was just like, well the product can speak for itself now. And thankfully it spoke very well. But like, yeah, having touched almost every high-end phone for the last 12 years is the real benefit to bringing a creator like me in early. And to Jeff's point, I think that's adaptable to almost any kind of business you want to make. Absolutely, and what was so great about having Michael on the team is that we knew exactly how it was going to be reviewed. We knew the positives people were going to compliment. We knew the things that people might have critiques about because we had our own in-house tech reviewer. And with people like Crackberry Kevin and his experience with Mobile Nations and the media publishing side of the business, we knew exactly how we were going to launch this product even before the product was finished. That part I do believe. I do believe you would have had the right publicity plan in place to get attention. Has there been any reactions that have surprised you? Or is everyone just smitten? Well, not everyone is not smitten. So I think I actually, what I'll say is from a ratio standpoint. I am a little pessimistic. I'm a little cynical. I did not expect as much positivity because I know what it is to come to a product and be like, what are you doing? You're ridiculous. Stop it. And I expected a lot more of that. And really we have not gotten it as much of that as I thought. So I think that's what surprised me on the whole. Yeah, I think a lot of people, they look at it and the first thought they have is Blackberry reborn. And then they take another 30 seconds with it and they go, this is a lot more than just a keyboard. So people who might have been closed-minded initially realize, oh, this is about more screen real estate for my apps and content, keyboard shortcuts. This is a whole new proposition beyond just a typing device. So I think that's been a bit of a surprise. And then I think the other really touching thing is the response from the accessibility community. We have had a tremendous outpouring of support. If you look at the comments on Michael's launch video, people saying, I have a visual impairment or I have some kind of a mobility challenge and this device is going to help me use my phone in a better way than I ever thought possible. And that is really touching. That's really nice. It matters. We're trying to think about how can we continue to support that accessibility community as we build out our product roadmap. Yeah, I think technology is only a benefit to humanity if it's inclusive. And if the same group of people who have succeeded in tech continue to continue in tech forever, then it's not gonna, the landscape won't change and we won't have new entrepreneurship. And haptic feedback matters. We get haptic feedback from so many things. Actility, absolutely, yeah. What's interesting is that I find that I'm, frankly, a little bit slower on a physical keyboard these days because we've all gotten used to the virtual run, right? But when I'm writing something I care about, when I'm writing, I've got onto the journaling thing before there was an app for it. Look at you. I'm a trendsetter. Analog as well. Yes, right. Yeah, yeah. And when I'm typing a journal entry that I genuinely care about and that I want to be intentional about and record some important stuff, I do prefer this and I miss it when I don't have it. Which is not a new feeling for me. I've missed it forever. But it's exactly, yeah. So it's just, it's lovely to have it back for those things, for those things that I actually want to dedicate some mind space to. Yeah, I think that's great. I'm sure folks watching are seeing that this is iPhone right now. Are we gonna be supporting a cross model? I was gonna say normally, I'm right on that. Yeah, look, you're talking about Android? Yeah, yeah. I've carried every phone and I've loved most of every phone. I don't just carry the iPhone, obviously carry a lot of Androids. It is my personal mission to make certain that we eventually do support Android phones. But you know, there's a lot of challenges that ecosystem, there's a lot of shapes and sizes, there's a lot of who do you target first, who do you work with, all this kind of stuff. But it is absolutely something that we have always intended to do. We just can't, you know, we have to be very intentional about how we build and how we launch. And focusing on the iPhone was an obvious first step for us given what we wanted to make and how we wanted to build. You can be on the focus group of one here, right? Yeah. When we launched it to the world, you know, folks can buy clicks for iPhone today on the website, but we also put a form. It's like, are you not using your iPhone? What model do you have? And we've had a tremendous outpouring of interest from the Android community. I did notice that. You know, there's thousands and thousands of Android users who are like, make this for Android. And so, you know, I think it's further validating. Michael's paying them all. Michael's instinct. Yeah, he's paying them all. But you know, it's when we can figure out how to do it at the same level of care and quality, you can better believe we're gonna take a closer look at it. Yeah. Do people stop you on the street in Brooklyn when you're walking around testing them? Yeah, yeah. You can't, like I have to put it away if I want to get things done. Because I will just have conversations with strangers. But here's the question they ask. What do you think they ask? Oh, yeah. What is that? Or is that a Blackberry? Almost. No, they ask, what phone is that? Yeah. And then I say, it's an iPhone, right? It's the iPhone you know. It's your iPhone. Yeah. Right? And they go, wait, what? Well, it's everything you love about your iPhone, all the apps, all the content, the big screen, with the benefit of buttons. Like, does it get any better than that? You're not giving anything up. That was the problem when the keyboard phones went away. If you wanted to stick with a keyboard phone, you had to give up everything. You had to give up your ecosystem. You had to give up your content. You had to give up. It's true, yeah. And so now you're able to get all of that and more. That's one of the things I quite enjoy about carrying this is because I get to surprise them with that. And they're delighted when they realize they can use their iPhone with it. Because when I'm carrying other unconventional phones around Brooklyn, as I do for the Mr. Mobile gig. Yeah, yeah, of course. Whether it's a foldable or something wild, everyone's always spends a whole minute going, oh, wow, is that the new Razer? I had the old one. I love it so much. It's so cool. I could do so much with it. Beat, beat. Of course, I'd never give up my iPhone. So with this, I can just be like, yeah, you don't have to. It's there. It is your iPhone. It's just wearing a module that makes it better. It's the best of both worlds. And you're bringing together, yeah, the touch that we missed from the past, too. It's all really interesting. Touch, type, together at last. Maybe that should be a tagline. Yeah, it is. It's on our website, I think. And it's a letter of, this is, you must be in marketing or something. So what is your advice? You're a small team, relatively. Lean, you moved quite quickly. What is your advice to other creators, Michael, who might be curious about product development and entrepreneurship? Surround yourself with people who are better at it than you are. And that's good advice. That scales to kind of, anything. But also, if somebody gives you the opportunity to do something special in that field and solicits your input in a way that allows you to come on board as someone who can make a difference, take it, assuming you are working with people that you trust and appreciate. Take the opportunity, don't think about it too much. Because they don't come along very often. And I'm very, very pleased that I learned how to say, yes, more promptly than I had in the past. So that's what I've got. I love that. What about you, Jeff? How are you going to attract the next creators to clicks to make the next product within the company portfolio? They're probably watching right now, so this is your chance. I think it's being okay with not trying to be everything to everybody, right? Like we recognize this isn't a one in a hundred device, probably not a one in 500 device. But if we could create a product that a specialized group of people would love, even at a scale of one in a thousand iPhone users, we've got a multi-hundred million dollar business. It's a huge dam there, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think for the creator group, it's really focusing on building an incredible product in the image of your customer. And not doing things just because you can, but being very intentional and deliberate about making the hard product decisions to cater to that specialized group of people that you know are going to absolutely love it. Yeah, I could find your super fans. That's it. I think you both did a fantastic job. Your whole team did a fantastic job of that with such an explosive launch in January. You are shipping right now. You can buy these right now. Super impressive. Michael, Jeff, thank you so much for joining me here on the show. And thank all of you for tuning in to theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona at Mobile World Congress. My name's Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in enterprise tech.