 I'm Crystal here on Qualk Talk, Culture of Women Time. Today, we're going to talk about an aspect of women that deals with sports, it deals with sexuality, empowerment, and Title IX. If you don't know what that word means, well, we're going to unpack that today because we have an important person describing his process of filming this really, really important project that reveals all about this. With no further ado, let us invite the director and producer of Rise of the Waheen, champions of Title IX, Dean Kanashiro. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So director, producer, actor, punnable red, local guy, father of six, whoa. Sure. Let's pile all on. Yeah. I'm confused suddenly. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I need to talk about you being a father of six first. Okay. Because I don't know anybody who has six kids now. Yeah. You know, that happened like generations ago. Yeah. Well, we had twins in there. The third time around, we had twins. Okay. And then we did choose to have another one. So that made five. And then my wife is a resource caregiver. She's a trained resource caregiver. So we, which would be a foster care for at-risk infants. And so then we ended up adopting my second daughter. Oh, wow. Yes, through that. So I have from 18 down to almost three. And they're all living in your house? Yes. We're all, it's like a circus. It's a fun, exciting adventure. Yeah. You know, it's amazing. And I've learned a ton. And I think creating the film has really helped open my eyes, I think even more so, to not just what my daughter's worlds, you know, the world that they're growing up in and that they live in. But definitely my wife and what she walks through and our relationship together, the dynamics. And as you know, things are shifting and changing. And of course, Title IX, my contention is that Title IX legislation passed in 1972 has had the most change in America. Maybe not the world, you can argue for that probably, than any legislation that's been passed since women got the right to vote in 1920. Can you do a simple recap of what Title IX is for people who aren't aware of this? Sure, sure. And I'm not saying I'm an expert on any of these issues. But I had to learn a lot about it to do the film. But Title IX is 37 words that was passed, legislation that was passed in 1972. It was a long road of lots of different pieces and a lot of different players. But our own Patsy Mink, Maui Bourne, the first Asian-American woman, the first woman of color who was elected to Congress in the late 1960s, played a role in that. She was working with Edith Green and Birch Bay and others. Dr. Bernice Sandler, who recently passed away, I want to say just even a few weeks ago, at the end of last year, I believe it was, or maybe it was in January. She, although not a legislator, was involved in the process. She's known as the godmother of Title IX, Patsy and Edith as mothers. I'm not sure what the titles are, they've given them. But anyway, they stewarded this legislation and put pieces together. And basically what it says is that any federal money that's being given to any educational institution, you cannot discriminate against women. You can't discriminate based on sex when it comes to access to the programs involved in education, especially. And so that was their driving force. No one really knew that Title IX was going to have an impact in athletics at the time. Even Patsy and the women then were not seeing what we see in the WNBA. When you watch women today, it's incredible. The athleticism, the power, the strength, the college, all the scholarships. They weren't even seeing that, I believe, from their own admission. But they did know quietly that it would impact the equal distribution of funds, the equal opportunity that women should have in colleges, universities, high schools, etc., who are receiving federal funds. So that's when the controversy exploded. It was passed in 1972 quietly. And like, yeah, let's get women opportunities in education at the time. And this is real hard for young women today and people to understand. But Patsy and the women herself wanted to be a doctor, denied entrance to medical school over 12 times just because she's a woman, just based solely on that. You know, we take it so for granted now. The younger generation don't even know what it means not to have that privilege or taking that away. We recently at the East-West Center had a keynote speaker, Justice McKenna, who spoke about her experience of being an athlete and having the access of that to give, pave the road to her scholarship into university, which they didn't have previously. Yeah, and she's featured in our film. Excellent. And was wonderful. And now someone that I, when I see, just so thankful for her, and she knew Dr. Donis Thompson, who's the first, the woman's athletic director at the University of Hawaii, the first full-time. And so anyway, just her, yeah, her, what Title IX opened educationally for women across the country has shifted everything in our country. And now, of course, there's more women getting degrees, more women graduating from college, et cetera. But at the time, it wasn't like that. And it was, I'm not going to say that it was like women hating. Like, we don't want women here necessarily. I mean, there could have, obviously there was a lot of sexism at the time. But some of it was just, hey, women have, this is what they do in society. We're just going to take two women in this program and then we close the door. We're just going to do it. Because why would women be in this program or whatever? So a lot of what I learned even, it wasn't necessarily antagonistic in many ways to women. Some of it was just, why would women want to do this? Or why would women want to play sports? Or why would they want to play full-court basketball? Let's just keep them at the board. Or if they play, they can play outside, outside of their household duties when they have a little spare time. It's a little fun thing. Yeah, a little play there on the side, a little sports day for women. But here's what's driving income is men's football and basketball. And all the other programs that exist, even if they have a fledgling little women's program, it all comes off of that. Yeah. Now Title IX shows up. And now it's like, no, you have to have equity in your funding. People are losing their minds. Yeah, equal rights. What does that mean? Right. And so you didn't know. And so at first it was like, you know, so the NCAA and coaches and legislators are all going, no, we need to remove the athletic portion of Title IX out. So this is what people don't know about Title IX, even of those that are aware of it. Patsy Mink, our very own here, who goes to represent Hawaii, you know, in the late 60s, early 70s, begins to understand, hey, there's another group that I'm representing, which is just women, you know, at large. After Title IX was passed, yes, she has the legacy of being a co-author of Title IX, but really the reason why she should be remembered and celebrated, especially in Hawaii is because she championed and defended Title IX in the years to come when it came under attack saying, okay, you can have women in chemistry and biology, but this athletic thing's got to go. She had to rally the troops, Dr. Donis Thompson, who over here connecting with her crew nationally and locally said, we've got to support, no, athletics needs to be a part of the Title IX universe. But why was that challenged? Why were people kind of not allowing for that support? Was it the athletic associations that they not want to share their pool of resources? I mean, where do you think all that- Yeah, definitely. Well, some of it was driven by my money in the Senate. I mean, greed, I'm just saying like, you can't damage the two men's sports, football and basketball better, funding everything else. So even if I'm down with you having a volleyball team as women or whatever, I'll share my gym a little bit over here. Even if I'm down, how are we practically going to do that? Now, I'm not saying there wasn't sexist attitudes in the midst of it, too. I'm not trying to- That's what I meant, right? I'm not trying to take that picture, yeah. So there was a lot of that and they had to fight a lot, but no, it was a humongous cultural thinking shift that had to happen as well as practical. What does that mean? Women have to then come to the football team. Like, there was just mass confusion for a while. Okay. There's a lot of simplifying of it, right? Generalizations of what it means to include women into certain areas that are deemed masculine. Well, especially sports, because this is the domain of men. If we know anything, this is where we roll, this is where we operate. And so for women to now come into backup, into that space, and there's a great line that someone shares in the film, is that's what their domain was. So there was a threatening. Suddenly, they're in the weight room. Now they're sharing our gym time. And Dave Shoji, head coach of the Wahini at the time, of course, the Rainbow Wahini volleyball team, tells those stories. And so, you know, look, we're the basketball team and you just have to wait for us. You know what I'm saying? There was discrimination in that sense. Again, how much of that was antagonistic? Or how much of it was the sense of the timing of the 60s and the relevance of, you know, the surge of the women's movement in response to all that kind of domain. And then, of course, Billie Jean King and that social explosion that happens. I want to say it's 1973. I couldn't put that in the film, unfortunately, just because it cost too much to get. It's just a nightmare. It's like $8 million for one photo of this thing. But yeah, but it's just, yeah. So that then socially kind of launched Title IX in discussions even greater. But nonetheless, even today, people don't really know much about it. I didn't know about it in 2011 when I first heard of this story. Much less Patsy Minx involvement, Dr. Donis Thompson, Dave Shoji, the inspiration of this program here is the story that we tell in the film is that is a fruit, or that's kind of like, let's zero in on the personal stories of one program in the nation while this is happening. So what we do is we bounce to Washington, D.C., the halls of Washington, D.C. I mean, in the most dramatic stories you can't believe surrounding that and then how that was impacting through this friendship of Patsy and Dr. Donis Thompson. How that was impacting what was happening here. Dr. Donis Thompson herself, born as a black girl in the ghettos of Chicago. Her journey of overcoming and saying those doors were closed to me as a female athlete, wanting to play golf, wanting to play tennis, but hey, you're not the right color, whatever, you can't come in. So it takes a personal story. It's very personal. Then enters Dave Shoji and then now you have this kind of scrappy Asian girl against the UCLA team. Then you have this David and Goliath story that's happening in the midst of it. It's very gripping and it will blow your mind if you're local and you've never heard the story. Yeah, so tell us what motivated you to decide on this project. Sure. Well, Beth McLaughlin who's really the third sort of lead character in this film. So she is from California originally, but it's definitely a local Hawaiian-hearted woman who was the first team captain of the first Rainbow Wahine volleyball team. We were just interviewing her. I was interviewing her with a friend. Just like, what does it mean to be Wahine? We were doing a little thing for Hawaiian Airlines. What does it mean? Yeah. Well, I'd tell you for the majority of them were saying, hey, it means to be a role model. And young girls look up to me. And I need to make sure that I'm a leader on and off the court and et cetera. And so everybody that we interviewed was saying something of that nature, which is powerful and amazing. And there are kind of celebrities here and have been definitely. And today, she starts to tell other stories. She was there at the beginning. She knew Dr. John S. Thompson. She was aware of Title IX, understood. So she's crying and she's telling stories. And then she's describing this David and Goliath battle against UCLA. And how can they establish the program that we know today? Yeah. People don't know how that was established. Right, okay. And it's brilliant and it's innovative. Yes. And it's amazing. And it really a lot goes to Dr. John S. Thompson as well, of course, the girls and what Dave Shoji was doing with the team at the time. But it was during that interview that I saw this Disney inspirational film, kind of a thing. I'm like, what is this? And so when I went home and just started Googling and Patsy Minck's name and Title IX and Donis Thompson and all these stories. And that's when I got hooked. These untold stories. They're untold. It's really important. The stories that need to be told. Yeah. And they've never been told like this from a national and then zooming into local and national. That, I think, is also the key. Some people know pieces of it. Yeah. But even Dave himself, my co-producer Ryan Kilesuji who has assisted Dave for eight years. Yeah. Even those super close to the program, women who have been through the program have not seen it presented in the way that it's presented here. Yeah. And that's why I believe anybody should see it. No, it's brilliant because we're representing Hawaii and it's in context to this national big problem. So let me ask you, how do you think, I mean, this is an ongoing challenge and it seems to be getting more and more complicated, but how does gender and sexuality play against each other or it almost kind of, goes on top of each other when it comes to these fights for equality? Yeah. And I tell you, it's so layered and what's difficult today, I would say on a grand scale is that it's unfortunate to watch the nation. I don't mean this, I don't know, it isn't some judgmental app, but it's... Go ahead. Do we have the emotional intelligence? It's really the answer. Do we have the maturity as a country and as individuals to sit across the table and say, these are the layers that are involved in gender relationships and dynamics and money and sports and it just takes a lot and it's unfortunate to watch in this kind of sound-bitey swipe-and-scan culture. Yeah. It's just easy to make it black and white and it's not black and white like that. Yes, because we're so consumed with like a dominant way of thinking because have media just kind of frames things for us and we don't know how to look beyond it. And it's so good guy, bad guy and it wasn't then it isn't like that today. Now there are black and white lines. There are things that you don't cross sexual abuse. I mean there's things of course are in the dialogue and thank God for that today is being exposed more and more in every industry, Hollywood, etc. But then you come into nuances in the home. You come into nuances in the workplace. You come into nuances where we need to have conversations and so I think for me when Beth was talking it hit my heart in a way where it made me say I don't know as a man and as someone who half-okinawan even but never told I can't do something based on my gender or my ethnicity. And here this woman saying that's been her life, that's been her fight even to this day what's happening. And I just said I need to go on this journey to better understand today as well as the past of what women go through and what young ladies and girls are dealing with. I think your perspective is really important in that not just as a director of Rise of the Wahine you've unpacked many important issues but as a man and as a father I think when we come back from the break let's talk a little bit about how men can empower women in your way. You know let's flip it a little bit and talk about the same thing from a different perspective. So don't go away we're talking about Rise of the Wahine with Dean kind of Sheryl. Aloha. This is Winston Welch. I am your host of Out and About where every other week Mondays at 3 we explore a variety of topics in our city, state, nation and world and events, organizations the people that fuel them it's a really interesting show we welcome you to tune in and we welcome your suggestions for shows you got a lot of them out there and we have an awesome studio here where we can get your ideas out as well. So I look forward to you tuning in every other week where we've got some great guests and great topics you're going to learn a lot you're going to come away inspired like I do. So I'll see you every other week here at 3 o'clock on Monday afternoon. Aloha. Aloha. My name is Andrew Lening I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii airing every Wednesday here on Think Tech Hawaii live from the studios I'll bring you guests I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe your co-workers safe your family safe to keep our community safe we want to teach you about those things in our industry that may be a little outside of your experience so please join me because security matters. Aloha. Hi, back on Clock Talk I'm Crystal here talking to Dean Kanashiro on Rise of the Wahine and about female empowerment and how men can help women you know we always focus on what it means to empower ourselves as females but we seldom think about how men can be encouraged to support and to empower and to bring light to the weight of a woman's position and so Dean's talking about that and before the break I mentioned as a father I still am blown away you're trying to create your own basketball team right? We need father empowerment is what we need I mean so yeah how has your being a parent and after producing this female empowerment film sure transformed your ways of seeing the importance of how men's position is in this whole conversation yeah well definitely I'll tell you we recently Dave Shoji Ryan Kalatsuji the co-producer on this film and myself we were a part of a panel at the Wohine Forum okay so this is once a year and I don't know the full history of it but I think it's Wohine Business Magazine right they put on this thing and it's women entrepreneurs and leaders so oddly enough in their 10 plus years I'm not sure how long they've been doing that but we were the first men that were on a panel okay so what this means the reason I bring that up is because Jill Nuno-Kawa who's featured in our film she's a Title IX advocate and attorney we were talking about the film Bud the Wohine soccer coach she's on the panel we started talking about women's self-care okay and a lot of these are moms a lot of these are entrepreneurs women who are juggling a lot at home and the emotional response because I was watching the women as Jill's talking about how she started to learn I have to care for myself I have and you know she's fighting a ton over the years and she said you know what I just need to have a peaceful heart I need to love people I need to take care of myself I need to love myself yeah me too right and so she's talking about that so and women are like tears like I mean it's serious right and so I'm watching the women just respond to what she's saying and then I jump on and I say exactly what you're saying I said hey listen I said look I'm gonna throw something on the table here because I'm new to this conversation you all have been having it for decades without me so to speak and without the input of men in many ways and rightly so I'm not disparaging that I mean it had to be for women in many ways but you guys can cheerlead each other and talk self-care all day but if I'm married to you and you come home and as your husband as the word have children to get like if I am not on the same page as that if I don't understand my role in supporting you in that you do you see what I'm saying yes so then where are we and that's what I'm advocating for that's what I'm putting on the table I'm saying hey men we have to come back and I'm not sure if we were ever part of the conversation but we have to now engage in a way that we haven't and if it's just between guys too that's fine but women you know what I'm saying like you can go so far right and I feel like women are maxing out in some ways like okay we're dealing with institutionalized sexism we're changing legislation we're dealing with stuff now social sexism exists I get it but when it comes to the practical real life transformation to get women into that next evolution of what it is that equity looks like equality looks like value looks like men have to now understand okay the rules have changed for us okay but how do we open that kind of possibility because I is it do you think it's because men feel like they're if they're running the household and they're the ones who are making all the effort to support the family and do all the stuff when they come home you know it's almost a kind of a self narcissistic attitude of saying hey I'm the one who needs the help here and support right you know right right right so this is what people have to do they have to start by watching Rise of the Wahine and Rise of the Wahine film dot com no seriously I created the film so that fathers ultimately can sit down with their sons and say let's walk through some of this history let's listen to these stories let's open our hearts men have to start with their hearts and here's what I'm going to throw on the table too I think men have to call out other men right so I think wait sorry did you see the Gillette commercial that was controversial before yes I did okay okay so let's just recap if people have not seen that it was very controversial because you know it is it's a movement to show how men should encourage other men to support and do anti-bullying and yet people are criticizing for saying hey you can't use this platform because it's a commercial yeah we have to do part three and part four of your show to get into but there's a difference between toxic masculinity and masculinity okay I'm glad you brought that up and so the healthy masculinity I believe that the commercial was trying to portray obviously I have no problem with that can they do it perfectly are they going to miss some things is that big brats whatever I get it but who can miss the point of it and I love the fact that their slogan has always been the best the man can get and they were talking about how we look and now they're saying the man can be in life in the home with their children how we raise boys so what is it for you well I agree with the commercials in the sense that guys should be calling each other out I believe that we should be awakened and they were dealing with a lot of the negative kind of a thing but I'm saying to awaken to what my wife what the women that I'm working with are dealing with at home there's nothing that says just because male strength male dominated ways of living etc has dominated both the home I think in many ways as well as our culture as well as workplace I think there's no way there's no reason why we can't have a conversation to say how can these things shift and change to include women's voices and women's version of strength what does feminine strength look like in a company and as a leader and the truth is is that man there's so much to talk about but I guess what I'm saying is it's wrong to have women think that they have to be like men yes to then sit at the table now I gotta be something that I'm not to see the only way that I can change again is if men honor and celebrate what feminine strength and leadership looks like and change the culture of male strength only male strength is strength no that's not true yeah and so there's even studies in a professional workplace environment let's take just inclusion in a leadership team it's just a stat it's just a reality that when leaders not just are saying hey look it's my way or the highway guys is what we're doing but it says what do you think what is your experience how can we as equals it's inclusive and then we make a decision yeah maybe ultimately I have it as a leader but let's make it this way okay that inclusive way of leading is known to be a great way of leading and it just so happens that women lead that way more naturally the more inclusive men sometimes are more it's my way or the highway that's what male dominance looks like I think it's a sensitivity thing I think some people think oh the sensitivity thing the emotional stuff is not as strong so there's a misunderstanding of how power is kind of presented I'm glad you mentioned toxic masses galinity because there's kind of a a surge and a trend in that word in using in this women's movement but I think it's really because that's obvious it's the stuff that's not toxic though things that are kind of marginally you know intrusive that are dangerous because we don't see it and I think you know a lot of men might say hey I'm sensitive to my woman's needs I do this for her I do that and then people don't see what's going on underneath I think there's that concept of what you can't see like you know no sure and the reason I'm saying there's a difference between toxic mass and just masculine and I think that's what people were offended by with the Gillette the ones that were offended by it we're trying to say hey you're just calling us out overall don't be strong or don't defend or don't you know fight in the army and I don't think there's still more that we need to talk about and separate those things saying no we're saying when that strength gets perverted into objectification dehumanization whatever abuse that is we have to call that out in each other right that's the trump tape with the guy in the bus oh gosh sorry to go back to that but I'm just no but I'm saying it's awful for him but it's the guy it's the guy he's with right and we don't train to flip the lens and look and question that's not the way that we should talk about what about is you're getting sons because exactly that's the conversation that's lacking a lot of times we as you know grown-ups can talk about this but how do we talk I have two sons and I always think about like how do I bring that in but I don't want to impose it it has come natural and it has to become normal conversations wherever whenever yeah so two things that I'm going to throw on the table number one obviously an awakened sensitive conversations with pop culture events that are happening over dinner hey we're hanging out what did you think about this hey this happened in the news what's your take and raising our sons and our daughters to be critical thinkers yeah but the heart piece as well and this is one thing I'll just share real quick was that when I was talking to my sons and I do this with my sons because obviously this film has helped awaken me we take books we'll go eat talk story so I said to my oldest son he was about 16 at the time I said hey of all the things that we've talked how do you know how do you know what the new rules of 21st century male I know it is and I thought he was going to say well dad because you teach me like we've talked about these things he did not hesitate he said because I watch the way that you treat mom wow yeah that's huge we only have one daughter I only have one daughter at the time he didn't hesitate he said you empower my sister you treat her just like the rest of us and the way that you support and treat mom so I'm not trying to build myself up here because I'm still I'm just saying men young men watch their dads they're gonna watch absolutely which I think the part the Gillette commercial was about but nonetheless whatever you think about the Gillette commercial don't trip over that forget the Gillette commercial we'll talk about it yeah but it's how and it's coaches male teacher who are we as uncles and and leaders in community how do we so that's where it has to start yeah and I think that our young boys are the future and they come in interesting small little pieces like over a meal over an appetizer where you just it's small bits it's not but you know if you grab a film like this you sit down with your boys I want you to watch this I want you to talk about it talk with our daughters our wives how can I better serve you right and I think for men a lot of us have a lot of apologizing to do in our homes there's another thing I'd start with I think we just started I think this I don't agree I think we just was a couple of years already I took I noticed that in the audience there are mostly moms and their daughters but there's a lack of the fathers and their sons or even mothers and their sons it's like we've just put everything divided and reinforcing that division and we need to open in that conversation again we have so much to talk about if people even find this remotely interesting and important in our lives we have an upcoming very important panel discussion hosted by the east west center do you want to talk about that in fact we have a flyer yeah so that's coming up I think it's next week super excited yeah this Sunday okay come on now yeah please come and join us and I'm going to be there we're going to be talking Pat Psyche who's in the film but we're going to watch the movie together and then we're going to have these conversations and we invite you to come and if you want to watch the film before or watch the trailer you can check it out at riseofthewahinefilm.com you can reach out to me at infoatriseofthewahinefilm.com but check out the trailer you can rent, stream, purchase a DVD I can't believe the DVD still exists but here they are if you want to order one we can ship it to you as well so so all the information is on the website it is everything's there riseofthewahinefilm.com yeah you're very thorough Dean but I want you to end this conversation with some kind of message I guess from your experience your loaded richness in your life to the men and boys out there yeah definitely first and foremost just want to say to any dads any men who are working as leaders and companies because this definitely has bled into my life into the office as well yeah let's just start with opening our hearts asking questions maybe talking less and listening first not talking at all but just listening first but most of all I think it's fathers and I think any of you who have sons or men that look up to young men that look up to as a coach whatever it is that you're doing let's start by and again I do feel like saying hey this is where here's where I want to commit to and I want to listen I want to grow so that's where it starts and watch the film watch the film with some young men in your life too and your wife yeah bring it all together everybody over a meal and family and friends and just it's important to address these conversations and I hope you can join us this Sunday again at the east west center to discuss further and to get perspectives from different areas too we have this you know a PhD student we have a member from the government we have everything it's really it does impact everything and this is a local global issue and so thank you again we have a dad and we have a dad everybody has a dad so again welcome enjoy thank you so much for having me appreciate it thank you so much for tuning in