 Thank you for joining me as I sit down with Pastor David and Marie Rosales from Calvary Chapel Chino Valley as we discuss marriage Raising children and managing difficulties that arise in the family. We're ready to begin. So let's talk marriage Pastor David and Marie, it's always good to spend time with you guys today. I'd like to spend some time Speaking about the importance of making room for the Holy Spirit in our marriages You know pastor in your book the family blueprint blueprint You mentioned that Ephesians chapter 5 really compels us to think about our marriages carefully And I like what Paul says in Ephesians chapter 5 18 that he's instructing the Ephesians to be filled with the Spirit and Then immediately speaks to the husbands and wives about the relationships with one another and so a question to you both Can you identify the things that would clutter a marriage and allow no room for the Holy Spirit to work? You know the most important thing in a marriage I really think is the the presence of the Spirit of God Because if you don't have his his spirit working within you and uniting you then what happens ultimately as you live in the flesh if there's any relationship that I think best pictures or as a portrait of the Spirit-filled life It's when two people from different backgrounds can actually unite to become the one person And so that requires the power of the Holy Spirit requires a decision of the will that do it requires Saturation of the word of God it requires the things that Paul speaks about in Ephesians 5 you know because he speaks concerning not quenching the spirit He speaks concerning walking in the Spirit then he speaks concerning Submitting to one another in the fear of God and then enters into the relationship of a husband and wife and and Children all under the the same banner of the Spirit-filled life And so if you're not walking in the Spirit then your only other option is walking in the flesh And if you're walking in the flesh that means that you're making decisions Based on what your flesh desires at that moment whatever satisfies me So when I'm trying to satisfy me that means I'm not going to be satisfying anybody else because I'm going to be the center of my Own attention and so something that will clutter my relationship or quench the Holy Spirit Is the same thing that would quench the Holy Spirit in anything of any other thing? It would be putting myself before the Lord it would be a failure of dying to myself It would be a failure of spending time in his word to get directives from him It would be all the things that normally go into just a carnal life. It would be it would be Placing myself and I would begin with that Placing myself before the interests of my wife Not to say that there aren't times when I need to take care of myself if I don't take care of myself I'm probably not going to be able to take care of anybody else But when I put myself in the position of being more important than others and I'm not esteeming others more highly Then I I ought to I'm assuming myself higher than I ought to as a result of that I'll walk in the flesh and so putting things before God is going to end up quenching the spirit And that could be things like like my job You know so much attention to my job that I neglect the family It could be towards my acquisition of material things where I I have a hobby Where perhaps I like cars or I like firearms or whatever camping you name it some outside Activity and I put that before my wife and family. It could be my television habits You know things that I watch and the time that the amount of time I spend you know watching those things to the neglect of Conversing with or spending time with my wife and children Anything that Takes me away from the duties. I have as a husband the duties. I have as a Christian my personal discipline in terms of my time of the word and prayer things of that nature all of that's going to contribute to the quenching of the Holy Spirit and a failure to be able to To to to walk in that spirit filled life, you know, so and I think Paul's pretty clear at least in his Ephesian passage in chapter 5 Concerning the fruit of walking in the spirit the unity that you have the the variety of things that come with Walking in the spirit and the application of those things in in your marital relationship where the husband washes The the wife with the word of God, you know, he he loves her as Christ loved the church And and he gave himself for her and you know cherishing her and nourishing her all of those are things that are part of the spirit filled life and so anything that goes or comes between the Lord and me and Anything that becomes the the satisfaction of my own flesh is going to quench the spirit And it's ultimately going to affect my relationship with Marie And do you see that those things happening even within the Christian marriages? Where there's that danger or there is that clutter where the Holy Spirit is quenched. I've seen some really good marriages I have friends who have excellent marriages that that are that are testimonies of the fruit of the spirit and So I can I can speak from that perspective first and say that Where the presence of the spirit is in a marriage you're going to have a good marriage The thing is in marriage as you know, John Again two sinners got married and the flesh really does dominate There needs to be decisions of the will to to die to my my fleshly impulses Which is normally just to not die to self It's my fleshly impulses to put self on the throne and so over the years I've tried to and I think I've begun to learn To to cherish and to care for my wife. And so if I if I'm not careful with The first things that ought to be doing, you know, serving the Lord, you know Just because I'm a pastor doesn't mean I I have no obligation to serve the Lord where I not to have been a pastor I still would have had a call of God to find a place of activity to to to serve him in my neighborhood if that be the case to to go with the church places like missions trips or service in usher or there would have been something I should have done had I not been called to pastoral ministry and My service to God has contributed to an encouragement to Marie's service to God Because had I not been a pastor my wife is very much a Service-oriented woman. She really is she said and others, you know kind of person so she would have wanted to find a place to serve the Lord and If I wouldn't have been that guy that Wanted to also we could have had conflict because she would have wanted to go to the woman's ministry And she would have wanted to go to retreats and she would have wanted to be active serving She would have been But had I not chosen to follow the path the Lord called for me We would have had conflict and so it's it all begins with the knowledge of Who you are in the Lord what you're called to do in the Lord and and an observance of those things you know a dying to self and and You know serving God together and yeah, if you do that chances are you're you're not going to be Yielding to the temptations and desires of the flesh I think so many times there's There's this concept that all these things happen overnight you know the the dine of self and the process of things and not understanding that this is a process that a marriage goes through dying to self and Looking up for the other first and things. I'm still learning even at the you know the Years that we've been married. It seems like I'm still learning those things and and I realized It's not an overnight process. It's something that I have to do daily and be mindful of and I think sometimes I can get ahead of myself in my marriage Because I'm jumping the gun a lot on a lot of things and then when it's not Moving in that direction. I can get frustrated and and then I'm quenching the spirit and then I find myself What's going on? So I've realized that it's a process that I that even in my marriage that I have to go through Would you say that process has been? Part of your marriage all these years. I would say it became the major part of our marriage I would say at the beginning it was the work of the Holy Spirit to even bring us together So that's something Marie and I would both agree that That's that's how we even met is that the Holy Spirit provoked my brother to invite a friend Marie to come to a Bible study. So it all began with with the Holy Spirit all now again, you know For those who are watching and don't really know Marie and me, you know, I was a new Christian when when I met Marie I was two and a half years old in the Lord By no means mature yet. Just starting just beginning I'd I'd been teaching the Bible for a year at my parents house and then my brother got saved and I Began to disciple him. It was just him. He began to invite friends and that's how I met your mom and your dad and all of that But you know, John, I don't want to give the impression to any anybody watching this that That at my age now that I was as mature at that age I was a kid. I was a young believer But Marie had grace in her heart towards me and always has Grace in her heart towards me knowing that that this this boy man that she met Would one day be the man she wanted she knew that I know she did and she held fast to that and she she was always my inspiration, you know to To become a better man at first. I didn't really see that. I think a lot of newlyweds They have things to work through, you know, who am I who am I in this marriage? Who am I in this relationship? And then who am I as a parent? Who am I as as all the things? Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of things that people don't really realize, you know, this is a married man, but they're There are a lot of things that you didn't expect when you married your girl You didn't know you didn't know all and and it's okay because that's part of the adventure of becoming one, you know So Marie and I, you know, we had children early we had six pregnancies and Less than five years close to five but six pregnancies, you know with the loss of one of our babies and All of that we went through a lot, you know, I was a college student. She was graduating from college You know getting our first apartment, you know everything it was it was tough, John I don't I don't want to ever give you or anybody else the impression that we didn't go through any growing pains We went through a lot, but we went in it with the idea and I know I'm speaking from read this stuff We've talked about together that we went in it with one decision and that is we're believers and we're gonna make it There never was in our life ever ever The thought that we weren't there was always a belief that we will there were times when we struggled there were times when When I honestly thought she married the wrong guy. I thought I I just wasn't the guy She was supposed to be with I really struggled with that because I I I saw my own Inadequacies I saw myself. I mean, I'm I'm not producing an income that's sufficient to take care of a family I'm I was over my head in so many things John But her faithfulness to God and her trust in the Lord and her her faith in me as a man or believed in me made me want to be worthy of Of that kind of love and that that drove me to to pursue what God would have for me Which ultimately was to pastor a church So when you ask about the Holy Spirit's involvement, he from the beginning led us together and then together We began to learn what his gifting is. What is my gift? What is her gifting? You know, what what is the fruit in my life? What should I what should I evidence? You know and and when I read the Paul's writings concerning the fruit of the Spirit Well, you see that one of one of his passages in Galatians. He speaks concerning it being love You know, and then the other things that go along with that there there are There's love and eight expressions of love And so that's what I began to ask the Lord to produce in me You know that I might ask a Christian man that I might have the fruit of the Spirit and then then you look in in Paul's writings in 1st Corinthians chapters 12 13 14 and You begin to see the gifts of the Holy Spirit and how they are to operate in what they're supposed to Produce in you and when exercise properly and and that's when Marie and I both began to be more open You know, not like we were closed, but open in the sense of boy, this is for us and we're not taking You know, we're not taking advantage of what God has given to us. It's available to me And then you find yourself going through the stretching of trying to raise children and Ultimately, Marie and I together serving here as a pastor and pastor's wife If the Holy Spirit were not working in us John leading us and strengthening us and never leaving us We wouldn't have made it and I think that as a married couple that That that's that's a testimony that we really believe that I know is true. Yeah, if without the Holy Spirit You would not you would not be You know looking at us the way you do you wouldn't be seeing a pastor You wouldn't be seeing a godly pastor's wife and a good woman You wouldn't see that in us because we would have taken a different road. I'd have done other things and Probably would have lived a contented life Because contentment is something that you can have sometimes But we wouldn't have had a fulfilled life a life that is as blessed as it's been and it's all been because You know, we want to walk in the spirit so that we don't satisfy the desires of the flesh and we want the Holy Spirit to to empower us and Awaken us to to what he has offered us that is ours and That has made the difference that that is the difference I'd say with us I couldn't imagine you guys doing anything else If you give me to looking back now in retrospect it'd be weird to see you do or to think about you doing anything else then Pastor in the church and then Marie you a pastor's wife and leading our women's ministry and I Who would think of anything else? I couldn't you know, maybe golf You know a pastor then what would be What would the husband do in his part because you said something interesting to me just right now regarding Marie and and I think a lot of Men could miss this as well as women that a lot of times the Holy Spirit will use our wives to minister us Minister to us in such a way That it almost brings a value to our marriage in a sense. You're just sharing about If it wasn't for Marie believing in me and and encouraging me and all these things you may not have been or that you're good enough Those are things that are that probably go through a lot of the men's minds a lot You know in the hell the Holy Spirit's able to use our wives in that sense to I Don't want to say come confirm But to make us realize that this is of the spirit, you know, I find that interesting Yeah, you know the scripture tells us that if you find a good wife You've really found a good thing and you you obtain favor from the Lord Yeah, I I know that each man thinks differently. I don't want to generalize to the point where Where this is a true thing for every man Perhaps it is. I don't know it may be the way we were created and I wouldn't argue that This could This may not be true this But I think that in general We we being created in the image of God are created With a with a with a Warriors a Warriors attitude, you know, even even the littlest puneous man You know when put into a corner to protect a child protect his wife He forgets that he can't He just not all men there are some men who run and all that's why I don't want to generalize but When you're really in love with that woman and that baby your baby John, you know this You'll lay your life down for him without a second thought It's not like you plan on doing it every day and look forward to the opportunity. Oh Lord, you know, but it's true So there's a what I'm trying to say is there's an inspiration that there is a There is a sense in me and I'll just personalize it there's a sense in me that is very strong and has been This way for a long time. I don't want to let her down. I I don't want to I I At one time, I really believed and I don't say this with Melodrama, it's just true that she did marry the wrong guy. I really thought she deserved So much more than me and I told her that I said you married the wrong man You you could have had somebody much better than me and you you settled And I really felt that because I was in my own eye at that time and it was with them for several months of our marriage I was going nowhere fast and Pressure there was so much pressure on on me as a young man, you know coming out of the drug and alcohol Addictions and and I don't really use addiction. I don't mean it in the clinical sense. It's used today Me and when I say that I my dependence on and enjoyment of and lifestyle that that I had because of well, I I didn't grow for years I didn't grow up, you know, when you're 15 years old and you're you're drinking and you begin to smoke pot and Take drugs, you know this from personal life, John. You know this you don't mature You you become kind of stagnant at that age. So I was 15 years old When I was 20 Because I never grew beyond my 15th year. I didn't work jobs I didn't do the things that normal men of my era were doing, you know, I didn't I didn't do any of those things and so Undisciplined without a purpose. I get saved in three months later. I'm in the military. So it's not like you're out there working a job Growing up as a man making up for lost time. That didn't happen until I was 23. I got out of the army I began to try and seek what am I going to do with my life and ended up Thinking I love talking about the Lord And that's how I entered into Bible teaching, which is how the Bible studies began and our church began And so that's really what it was all about, but I was still Emotionally immature. I still hadn't done a lot of things and so Marie married a man Who was very much a project very much in transition? She was much more mature than me. Marie was much more stable She had a stable upbringing. She was a you know a girl who who was involved in school activities in high school She was a you know a an exchange student to Brazil. I always admired these these gals Yeah, you know she was a top-notch girl and me I was I was the bum I was the drunk in high school I was the guy that those girls stayed away from because I was just trouble and and and I was and so now I'm saved and I'm wanting to be a better man and but I've married somebody who already is a good person and We were Really different in so many things and now I'm trying to learn to be a leader You know and the only leadership I know was coming out of athletics and and military and and So I was really cut and dry, you know, that's how you do things That's how things are accomplished that kind of thing and I've got a gentle-spirited woman here who doesn't know That kind of life because her father wasn't like that or daddy was a gentle loving man I loved him very much but I was not the man that she needed and and What happened to me is I finally Allowed God to say you're not the man she needs. Well, I'm teaching the Bible. I we go to church You know, I I do these spiritual things. I'm thinking But God is saying but the person you are She deserves better than you, you know, and that's that's kind of putting it bluntly He doesn't speak necessarily that harshly to me But that was what I was hearing and and it took a while for me to finally Finally die Finally say I'm hurting her more than helping her. I'm not kind I'm not loving I'm not I don't I don't tell her how How much you mean to me? I don't Forgive me I travel back and I shouldn't because it awakens me To memories I don't like but Without the power of the Holy Spirit John without the an awareness Of the prize that God gave to me I wouldn't be the man I am right now And what happened is And Marie can tell you this I started taking classes on marriage I wanted to be a good husband and I didn't know any other way And I was teaching the Bible and all of that but I was still young I need an instructor instructors need instructors And I started taking marriage and family classes. I took it at A school of theology I I took it at Cal State Fullerton marriage in the family I took it at Cal Poly Pomona marriage in the family I I took it in another place, you know, I took I took it several different schools To learn theories of and how this works and what does it mean because I didn't know how I I you know, this sounds crazy. I know even as I'm saying it But but it's true. I did not know how to love. I didn't know Uh, I I didn't I did not know how to say I love you. I did not know how to show affection I I I My father was very Very Reserved and my mother Was was very ill and so my mom's illnesses had contributed to her becoming vicious And mean and very direct and and very unkind And my dad was real withdrawn. And so I I stopped being influenced directly By them when I was a young teen And so I kind of went off on my own to figure life out And I didn't figure it out right and so now I've got this treasure this beautiful young lady Who's in love with me because she sees something in me And I don't see it I didn't see it As she showed it to me She held me in her arms She rocked me one night like a baby And she said I believe in you God will you And when she did that He see I had told her As a Young guy dating her I I didn't know how to say I love you so I I I'm I'm better with illustrations and so I held my hand like this and I said this is my heart And I'm giving it to to you But I said it's it's fragile. Marie. It breaks easily Please don't break it I was afraid But I gave it to her. She didn't realize what I was doing. She didn't know how crazy I was She really didn't she didn't know that I did not know how to love people She didn't know that she because I taught about love. I was her bible teacher He must know what love is, but I didn't I didn't know what love was And so I I I was afraid to yield Because the one who yields control is controlled And and I I'm not going to be controlled by anybody You know including and especially a woman because my mother had been so injurious to me You know and to my family. I will not be treated like that. I will not be Spoken to like that. You know what was that in my heart? It will not be I will not be abused again and so Now I'm a man and I'm saying I uh I'm in love And I don't know what that means so I told her and God is good He gave me I'm telling you john and and I don't say this for drama effect. It's just true. I'm trying to be real um There is and I don't mean this weirdly I I said that already, but I'll say it again. Um She's the perfect woman for a man like me The perfect woman for me She And and she knows this I I tell her this is not just She She made me complete. She really did I I could never have love for another woman And I've never had love for another woman the way I have for her She Made me whole I was broken And her love healed You know and so Not all men are as open and articulate about those things. You know that we're we're we're we keep things to ourselves and it threatens people A lot of men right now may have already gotten up to go get something from the refrigerator because There's not as many not that many men who have really And I don't mean this again in a weird way Who have really faced themselves for what they really are and And I have And I've looked in the mirror the word of god. I've looked in the mirror and I've seen my heart and I've seen How evil it is and I've seen How cruel I can be I've seen those things And I've made marie cry when we were younger I've made her cry and it didn't bother me at all Because I thought you deserve it. That's how I was john And then one day the holy spirit began to awaken me to the value That she is to me and the prize and the gift That she's been to me And how wrong it is for me to have any cruelty Towards this woman any I thought it was just Conversation I thought it was just that's how I grew up I you know you want to say it you say it And that was my family and I And I was I was trained by by god so in his word And by a woman marie who never has Never has been disrespectful to me Never has made me feel That I couldn't accomplish Something if I put my she's never she's always always In my support And and those are the things that that made me Say I can do all things through christ I can do whatever god has called me to do whether live with much or live with little or or Put up with this or put up with that See as long as as I have him and his power And and as long as I've had my wife who has said you can do it And she's not a cheerleader by any means he's very logical people don't know that about my wife john My wife is very logical very like boom boom boom. So no, she's not emotional. I'm the emotional I'm the one with the emotion Marie is very reserved But that strength that she has Has has been you know, it's been I'm the kite and she's the person with the strange She's a strong woman And I don't think people realize that because she is so you are so kind and loving but your strength I was even telling my wife I was like, no marie's a she's strong. No, she's strong. I remember that one time you pinched me one time You said you better not ever do that. We're talking about something is real You pinched my arm. I was like, oh it scared me Yeah Remember the time in your office, uh, oh, yeah, I remember you got scared I just started looking down He told me because you just were speaking one day and he says she scared me She's a strong woman Thanks again for tuning in Let's talk marriage is a ministry of calvary chapel chino valley If you enjoyed this video, then please like and share it We will see you again next week on another episode of let's talk marriage