 Sir Justin St. Clair. We were supposed to do this interview last year but there were some scheduling issues and Justin couldn't be here. So I'm really happy that we're able to do it now. So we'll start right at the beginning like I do with all my other guests. Tell us a little bit about your early life and your growing up. Good. You've got quite an audience here. So growing up apparently hasn't happened. I was actually born in a really small farming community in the middle of nowhere, Illinois. There were like 1,998 Republicans, a black guy and me. One night the black guy disappeared, I left. And that's pretty much the earliest. Very much in the closet, small town, no one accepted it. Despite being completely in the closet, I managed to find a high school sweetheart in a high school with 200 people, nonetheless. At some point I embraced religion because I didn't want to be gay. Later in life discovered that I liked being gay more than I liked religion. More immediate benefits. What branch of religion did you embrace at that point? Independent Baptist. If you're going to embrace something, embrace it. So yeah, like go big or go home. I mean the ladies don't cut their hair. They don't wear pants. You don't listen to anything secular. You don't watch TV. You pretty much sit there and grow cobwebs on your asses. And what about that? Why that of all things? I think that there were two things. One was I really didn't want to be gay. I didn't really fully accept that I was. And it was a way to cover it and hide it and all of that. The other is I am incredibly socially awkward. And did not grow up popular. I was the one stuffed in lockers and made fun of it and all of that. And there was a camaraderie there. Something about evangelicalism that they draw the Rome in, it feels like a family. But coming from that small town in a very myopic environment, what concept did you even have about being gay? You're talking the 1980s. So my concept of being gay was probably the very limited TV coverage, which was New York City Gay Parade, which was, oh my God, and the AIDS crisis. Despite the fact that I had a boyfriend that I slept with for 16 years, I still didn't fully admit that I was gay. And I know that sounds stupid, but it was truly, oh, we're just doing this until I find the right person. So I'm going on this high school, college, graduate school. It would go away eventually. It doesn't. But you just alluded to academics. You're very academically accomplished. Tell us about that. So having embraced religion, I actually went out, got a bachelor's and a master's in theology. And then a doctorate in actually educational counseling wanted to be a Christian school counselor because that would have ended well. Wow. And so I did that. And then when I realized that that wasn't what I was going to do, aka got thrown out of the church and everything else when I came out, I went back and got my master's in healthcare administration and my PhD in healthcare finance. Wow. Wow. And then there were the mere mortals among us. But let's take a step back. Tell us about coming out and being thrown out of the church. Tell us all about that process and part of your life. So my partner, Michael, we were the best friends since I was in seventh grade. And we discovered each other sexually at 16 or 17. I don't know when you realize that things happen when you do things. And so we did a lot of things. What things did you do? Yes. And so Michael and I were together in the closet. Michael actually came out of the closet as gay. And I was the one in the church that everyone was like, oh, what a good little Christian. He's being a little witness, helping him. Yeah, a lot. And then when I was 30, actually 31, Michael was killed in a car accident. And he was killed on December 29th of 2000. And within the next month, I really took a look at my life and said, do I really want to spend the next 30 years of my life not embracing what it is that will really make me happy? And so I marched into my mother and said, Mom, we need to have a talk. And she looks at me and she's just like, what, you've got a girlfriend. And I'm like, no. And she goes, oh, so you have a boyfriend. And I just looked at her and I'm like, how do you know? And she's like, like, I didn't know when you were 12. So not everybody responded so well. Family members that had still never spoken to me again. The church didn't really handle it well. I actually asked to have my name removed from membership and said this is going to happen. They weren't content with that, of course. So they brought it up for the entire congregation to vote me out of membership and then called the seminar that I went to to try to dig up all of these bones. Poor word choice. Skeletons, that's a lot of bones. I just can't let that go, I'm sorry. And of course there weren't any because the weirdest thing about Justin St. Clair until he was 31 years old is that Michael and I were monogamous for 16 years. Wow. That's beautiful. It's a little boring. God rest his soul. Tell us about coming into the leather community. Tell us about that journey. So leather community was a little bit of an accident, I think. Sky was there when I was... Anyway. So after I came out to my family, I'm like, so now I need to go do gay things. Except I don't know what that means. So I literally picked up everything and I moved to Boys Town in Chicago right in the middle of Halstead and said, I am here because this is what gay people do. In my, you know, I'm in my four wheel drive, Chevy three quarter ton pickup truck and my flannel and my jeans and my cap and I didn't really fit in well on Halstead Street in Chicago. At least I'm like, I still don't understand but not. And so I was actually really depressed after about six months of thinking that after I'd come out and had a lot of heartache, a lot of my family not accepting and friends and, you know, the church that had felt like family, I think my expectation was that all gay people would get along. That because we had all felt this, you know, form of oppression and we'd all gone through this that at some point that because you've gone through that you have a camaraderie. And so there's just part of me that just thought that we would move there and I don't know, watch Wizard of Oz every night. Maybe Golden Girls, I don't know. And I was shocked that if you didn't have the right hair and the right clothes and hang out with the right people and all of those things that you were, I was probably no more accepted than I was out in the straight world. And consider just giving up and moving back and, you know, giving a subscription to some magazine other than National Geographic. And then one night I wandered of all places into the manhole. No, no, you've missed him. The bar was actually a manhole. And I got to talk to the bartender. We were having a good time and he was like, you know, we're looking for a doorman. Do you want to, you know, make a few bucks? And I'm like, sure, exactly. So at that point I, you know, the manhole was leather and Levi's and really sort of was feeling good. And then one night one of my co-workers said, come on, we're going to go to the cell block. And I'm like, that sounds terrifying. What's the cell block? And they're like, oh, it's just like the manhole except there's a motorcycle. So I went into cell block and couldn't get into the back because I didn't own anything. So the guy that was working the door loaded me his vest and made me take off my tennis shoes. And the only thing more terrifying than the cell block is being without shoes at this point. I went into the back and I'm like, terrified. I'm like, hanging onto this man for dear life. And I look over there and I just like, I correct him and I'm like, that man has his arm inside. And his name was Matt. I met my friend. And Matt turns to me and looks over and says, give it five minutes, the other one will be in there too. I was terrified, intrigued, erect. There were a lot of different things I was feeling. And one of the things that happened within days of that was I discovered that when I walked into a leather bar, nobody cared what my hair looked like. And nobody cared. Well, I had hair then, okay. All of those things that I wasn't finding in the gay community, I was finding in the leather community. There was not the judgment. There was not all of those things. It was just, come on in. Later it was like, get rid of the fucking paisley shirt. But at the time it was except now and then teach rather than fucking be what we want you to be and then it will accept you. It was the opposite of what I had found and exactly what I needed in life. Well, it's a strong statement. Well, tell us about discovering the puppy community. How did that come about? Fucking puppies. So I computed in IML 2007. Top 20. Last Mr. Mephisto leather ever. I did such a horrible chat. They snapped the contents. That's not true. And there I met this guy, became my boy. Looked this guy. He was just amazing. And then one night he barked at me. As happens. And I'm like, what the fuck do you do with a boy that barks? And he's like, I'm a puppy. I'm like, no, you're not. So he, you know, we started talking about it and actually started showing me some things. The internet existed by then. It was amazing. And I just sort of said, that's great for you. I'm glad you want to do that. No, no, just not for me. And two things probably led me headlong into the community. One was that as I looked for someone to mentor him, I couldn't find anyone. And I looked around at Chicago, which is realistically one of the leather mechas of the country. And there should be people there who can mentor anything. And I couldn't find it. And that bothered me. Wow. So I started buying bio-dog books and said I'll figure out how to train just like I would a bio-dog figure to appease him. And then really what happened was one day I was watching Doctor Who. As one does. And for those of you who don't know me, in my free time I restored old Victorian homes. And I was, at the time, had just restored like a 6,000 square foot home that we were living in. And he wanted to play. And I wanted to watch Doctor Who because that's what we do. And the TV room was on the second floor, so he wanted to play. So I picked up his ball and I threw it out the door of the banister. And it would go down the spiral stairs out into the living room with 6,000 square feet. It would take him 20 minutes to spot a hard ball. And in the meantime I could get through, you know, a good part of the episode. And he would break it back and I'd throw it over again. And about the third time, he had just had enough of that shit. And he tackled me. Now I'm on the couch laying down, and he tackles me. Now at the time, I am Sir Justin, you asshole. He not tackled sir. And it's like scolding a bio puppy. It's like, then they get so fucking cute about it. And so I went asshole and I tackled him back. And then he rolled over and I rolled over and this ridiculous scene from the Lion King began. And yeah, exactly, exactly. And what happened was I discovered that there is a handler headspace. That all of the sudden I found a new version of me that was not just Sir Justin, disciplinary authority, all of that. That there was this nurturing in a different way. Felt like a biological little boy playing with a puppy in the backyard when you're five years old. And when that happened, it was instant. I would never be able to not have a puppy again. Not saying I might not have a boy too. If anyone's looking, room 248. Always worried. Collector. Thank you. It can't. You gotta catch them all. Got to catch them all. And so I might have boys but I could not have a puppy at that point. Well, what is iPod? Tell us about its meaning, focus, community benefits, all that. All right. So before I talk about iPod, iPod originated as a weekend concept when IPTC was at Beyond Vanilla. And we wanted a place that was just for puppies at Beyond Vanilla. And then the following year, I had become friends with Joe Master Passwood. And it was an unlikely friendship because we were rival organizations. We were all supposed to hate each other. And we started talking about the community and what was best for the community. And at some point in our discussions, the suggestion was made to bring IPC and IPTC together for a weekend. And I'm sorry I'm getting really emotional right now for those who do not know Joe Master Passwood passed away this afternoon and heard this morning. And we lost one of the founders of our community. We lost a man who, despite the fact that he and I may have had different philosophies, gave his heart and gave his soul to the public community and we lost a mentor that will never be replaced. So while I normally talk about iPod with a lot of jovial, I love what we're doing, there's a little bit of a dark cloud today for us, understandably. But iPod came about saying, we all love our contests. I'm the executive producer by PTC, I love contests. But we were looking for a weekend that was not just about a contest. I had been through some amazing weekends where they felt more like there was a great big weekend of people together and a contest just happened to be happening over there on the side. And I said, I want that for puppies. I freaking want a claw for puppies. I want an IML for puppies. I want something where puppies can go and feel a safe space. As welcoming as the leather community is, not all puppies are leather. And a lot of puppies don't feel safe and included in all of the leather spaces that those of us who came out of the leather community do. And so our desire was simply let's do something fun where people can go, they can enjoy themselves. They can have 10,000 balls and a ball pit and they can run around and there can be an obstacle course. They can sniff each other's ass and they can do all of the things they want to do and really just have fun with it. The fact that the contest is there is awesome but that's really not the focus of what the weekend is. Okay. Thank you for at least being here when this has been a very difficult day for you and a painful memory. I know the audience is appreciative. I am appreciative and we give you honorments today. What I would ask is, Joan had a lot of family and a lot of friends that were a lot closer than we were. We were friends because of events and the things that we did and it had built that friendship. There are a lot of people in our community who are hurting today. Reach out to them whether it's on Facebook, whether they're here give them a hug and love them because we've suffered a great loss. But on a slightly lighter note, thank you, to bring things a little more cheerful. You ran for president of the United States. Tell us about that. So, funny story. So, several years ago, not that many years ago, by the way, four years ago or so, my state representative in the middle of his term chose to retire. And so, I threw my name in the hat to be replaced, to be his replacement until the next term. For those of you who missed the beginning, we're going to rewind. My house is in a very conservative district. There are now four Democrats there. But it's pretty conservative. But people have gotten to know me and people have really accepted me in a lot of ways. Now, oh, he's the gay on the corner. He's the one that fixed up that trashy old house and brought our property, true story. And so, as we would talk and move it out, I was the finalist to actually become the representative for our district. The problem was, they weren't sure that a ridiculously gay, not Republican, could carry the general election. And the funny thing was, every single person that I interviewed with said, we love you, we think you're perfect, but I don't think anybody else would accept you. And by the time I was done, I'm like, Tuckers, if all of you can accept me, everybody can. Well, we had made a gentleman's agreement that I would not run against whoever they chose in the general election. So instead, I filed my name to run for president of the United States. Right? In retrospect, I really should have followed that a lot closer. And actually, I got some people behind me got really serious about it for a little while. And then, and then some people just managed to find pictures on Facebook and said, I'm not sure that this is going to fly. And I have a tendency to think they're right. There may or may not, Miss Kendra, be some pictures of me floating around from GLLA to a couple of years ago. You know, I rumored, I haven't actually seen the photos. Yes, I have. And it was clearly me. And we made the decision that the country might not be ready for what I would have to offer. So, 20, 20, here we go. Hey, I say do it. I say go for it. But what's the biggest misconception about you? Honestly, probably the biggest misconception is I have a lot of people approach me, talk to me, and say, you're so approachable. No, I get a lot of people that were like, oh, I always thought you were sort of arrogant full of yourself. And uh-huh, asshole. And the truth be known, I'm like this terrified little boy who just sits up there and like begs for acceptance and wants everyone to love him and is afraid that somebody doesn't. And literally somebody says, I was in an event and you didn't talk to me even though I was a fucking dog who you never knew who I was. And I know who gets my feelings and goes home and literally cries for tears because I might have hurt somebody's feelings. Oh, wow. Thank you. Very much one for taking time on a difficult day and for sharing everything with us. And I extend and all of our love to you. Thank you.