 Tachalain this is the show this particular afternoon na very good afternoon. Hope you keeping pretty well where you watching us from and keep talking to us as such at Tachalain Y-25. What's happening in your neighborhood, any sporting affair that is taking place currently update us and of course we will tell the whole world. At a nearby basketball court if there is anything happening and a football match currently underway, I understand this is an international break. So no match action as far as Kenya Premier League is concerned but National Super League and other grassroot fixtures are underway. So we're going to speak about the state of Kenyan football in the wake of Arambia Stars international friendly against Iran next week. Remember Kenya was facing a ban of a government interfering with football activities in the country so it's been a minute since the national team took part in competitive football and of course joining us is one relevant man who will be talking to us about the overall state of the game in the country and what Arambia Stars needs to do in terms of packaging going forward to ensure that we get to another level. Because you've seen Ababuna Mambas here sport saying that we can bid for 2027 Afkan joined with other African, East African countries like Uganda as we also look forward to calling for work up in 2030. I don't know how that possible is Arambia is joining us from a task agency player and he also featured for national team. Good to see you, bro. How are you doing man? I'm good, I'm good. It's been a minute, you keeping wet? Just before we started talking of air we were speaking about a very paramount thing, value for corporate money. Because there has been noise outside there that whatever corporates tend to bring in sports especially Kenyan football is not equivalent to the value they receive as someone who understands the dynamics of sport sponsorship. What things into perspective for us? I might also be one of the people who have been lamenting that you know corporates are giving us raw deals. What are the sentiments regarding the same? Actually we have to understand that the corporates are doing business, they are in business. They are not in the business of donating free money. Most of the corporates have shareholders and those shareholders at the end of the financial year will require dividends. So there is no manager who will donate money to a football club just because you are a football club. You have to demonstrate that the funds that you are receiving will give a return, what you are calling a return on investment. The only key point here to get a return on investment is if you have a following, if you have funds, if you have numbers to demonstrate that there is going to be visibility number, the first thing they look at is visibility. How many football clubs in Kenya do you think they have that data each and every match? The number of funds we showed up, the number of funds who are on social media, the number of funds who can even watch football on TV. The marketing manager will look for a platform of visibility. And that is why you see the social media influencers are winning. They are not winning because they are just social media. Look at the numbers. They have 1 million, 2 million, 3 million followings on Instagram, on TikTok, where generation Z is right now. You might have a following but on the wrong platform. The target market right now, a majority of the population are between the age of 15 to 34. Which platform do you think you are going to fund that demographic? TikTok and IG. How many football clubs can you mention around TikTok or IG and YouTube? Less than 3 in Kenya. Maybe even none. What are the numbers that they have? Countable. So why would I, as a marketing manager, invest my company's money into a project that is not going to give me return on investment? I would have wasted that money. So I will look for alternative avenues to invest that money. And that's why you see they are going for social media influencers. And you've mentioned about a very critical point. Because I remember when Everton was visiting Kenya to take on Kariobang Shaks, the spot-pesa company that was involved in sponsoring the initiative had to use some of the social media influencers just to push the agenda on social media, Twitter, Facebook, through hashtags. Remember, spot-pesa has employed individuals who understand what marketing entails. What is the target market? The target market are individuals between the age of 15 to 34. A majority of them are called generations that people were born after 1995. Most of these young men and women are on social media and they trust influencers most than anything else. They see somebody who is influential doing something, they'll go and do it. And that's why you see the companies that export posts, they've done their research, they've done their polls. They've come to understand that if we use the influencers, we're going to attract the target market. Actually you find them using an influencer with a huge following despite lacking sporting background. But you know, because whatever you will post will have a far-reaching outreach. Yes, it's about the visibility. Even the social media accounts, there are KPIs that are used to gauge whether the social media account is performing well. Namban is the number of views. I might post content on social media. Then there are only three or four likes. But it has 600,000 views. It's not about the number of likes. Or comments. The potential partner is looking for visibility. Remember, he's looking for visibility. He's not looking for likes. So if you can be able to demonstrate that you can be able to give a potential partner visibility, then it will be easier for you to do a presentation and get these guys on board. Wow. Bariwa, you are in agreement? Yes, I am in agreement. But maybe I'd like to pose a question to my friend here. We are struggling with data for numbers as clubs intent. Maybe the argument, let's say, from Port Pesto's view is that, I remember three, four years ago when we were both sponsoring the two people, he's the brand, the brand value. Maybe they run up the statistics of the numbers of funds who are following on the membership. But they say FC Gormaya, these are the biggest brands of football. Do you think they also look at your brand as, best in your history as well, the sponsor? You've used a word that if I were in your position, I would not use a brand. But from my perspective, a brand is a promise. If I pick the two clubs that you've just mentioned, if I go to an event that has those two clubs, what are they promising me? Entertainment? You assure entertainment. How many times will you go to a derby and the quality of play is in a manner that players can make 12, 13, 14 passes without either being intercepted or going out or going up in the air. How many times will you watch? So many times. You find the quality of play is still very low. You find our top players whom players will consider as the top. In fact, some of them, I've seen there's too much wulabalu about who has been selected as the national team and who has been dropped, who has been selected. Their technical ability is still very low. They are fast as you can see. So the quality of play is still low. We find players cannot make even 6 to 7 passes without being intercepted. So if I call myself a brand, what am I promising you as a customer because you are paying money to come and watch my team play? So what am I promising you? Is it entertainment? No, because the quality of play, as you said, is not up to task. Will I have a good experience? No, because I've not enjoyed the game. When I come to the stadium, I want to have a good experience. I want to enjoy myself. I want even to bring either my wife or my girlfriend to the stadium. But you can imagine right now it's the rainy season. How many stadiums in Kenya have shelters around that you can watch a march for 90 minutes without being rained on? Or during the cold season, I'm glad I've seen Nyayao Stadium and Kasrani in other houses. But before, during the cold season, you come and sit on a concrete slab that is cold. And you are supposed to bring your family members, your children, your girlfriend over there. Remember Kenyan football is competing with the other alternative interests in entertainment. Ya, ya. So what are they doing that we are not doing? Okay, for example, Netflix. Okay, I can pay 1000 Bob and for a full month, I have entertainment on my TV. Quality entertainment. Yes, Kenyan football, if you put it on TV, the quality, does it look good? The way you will watch, for example, we are fans of EPL. There's a very big difference. And the fans around the stadium make the quality to be much better. But our study do not have fans because we do not employ mechanisms of attracting fans. For us, we believe that because there is a game, a fan should just turn up. No, we should promise that fan that if you pay 300 Bob, you're going to be entertained. You're going to have fun. You're going to experience something that you've never experienced before in your life. But for us, we just expect that and it will attract viewership. It doesn't work like that. I understand this is an international break. There is no Kenya Premier League, but we are going to slightly talk about it. What do you make of the quality of our league? Because as we speak right now, I think Gormaya is on top of the table, closely followed by Taska or KCB. And we have started well and it's losing a bit of it, but hopefully they have done their best and we've seen also how the likes of Kenya police have actively involved in strengthening their scores, acquiring who and who in Kenyan football, Patrick Matasi, Abudo Maher. I don't know whether they are still the players we watched a few years ago. But, general, what do you make of our Kenya Premier League? It's not on TV. Supersport went. I've seen strategies and mechanisms of convincing pay TV back to the fold. But I don't know despite absence of broadcast partner. Are we still there? Again, the broadcasters will only come on board if they are eyeballs to watch those matches. The broadcaster is also an investor. He'll want to put his money into a league where he knows he's going to create extra revenue through advertising. And you can only get money through advertising if there are people watching. So, unfortunately the quality of Kenyan football needs a lot of improvement. There's too much work to be done. There's too much work to be done. If you look even at the quality of coaching, the quality of play, the quality of refereeing, you can see. Yes, they are questionable. If you look, there are too many allegations of much fixing. So, when I look at it critically, I see a league whereby we need to start from scratch, we need to start from zero plus welfare is not being taken care of. Because how do you expect me to come to a football match? I play. Then when I leave, I'm scrumming into the same matter as you, who is a fan. First of all, I've put myself in risk. Because, as a football fan, I may not like what you did on the pitch. These players need to be taken care of first and foremost. Maybe you made mistakes that costed the team. Yes, these players need to be taken care of first and foremost. Without forgetting about the broadcastings and everything. If you don't take care of the needs of the players, the quality of the game will still be mediocre. And hence, the broadcaster and the investor will not recoup his money. How do we expect our players to come and play when they are hungry? How many times have we seen clubs travelling all the way from western? They get stuck in Nairobi. And that is what is encouraging, much fixing because there is an opportunity to make money. I'm all being paid by my club. But somebody has told me if I allow a goal, I'm going to make ten times of what I expect to be paid by my club. Why wouldn't I fix that majezan opportunity? Another instance is a trigger. Remember these footballers, they are human beings. A majority of them are parents. A majority of them have dependents at home. If you look at... The players got enrolled? Yes, 12% of Kenyan's population is dependent on other individuals for a living. Meaning that I'm depending, for example, on Sila. To survive. If you look within the football fraternity, most of the players who come into Kenyan football, they have 3, 4, 5, 6 dependents. People look up to them for a bread in the evening. So if I am the breadwin at home, my mum is there, my dad is there, my brothers and sisters are looking up to me. Remember this boy is 22, 23 years old. He is still very young. The bird in his carrying. And yet, I'm not being paid for a full season. And if something bad happens to my family, maybe my mum becomes sick. A trigger. My father becomes sick. Something spontaneous. Yes, a trigger. And I'm not being paid. All the first thing I think of, can you look for those much fixers? Yes, I need money. Because when you go back home, people expect you to put bread on the table. And you go back home, people have seen you on TV, they have seen some few fans, 5, 6,000 shouting your name. But you go back home without anything. There is no value for it. There is no value for it. So until and when we look at the issues that are causing much fixing issues that are making players get attempted to fix matches at the issues that are making us not have quality football. The reason is why, why, why, why? Some players, this is not to justify the much fixing saga. Some players just have integrity issues, their personality, their background. The way they were brought up, they just have integrity issues. So for such kind of players, what we need to have is have integrity tests within the KPL, within the NSL, within the football ecosystem, not only on the players. Remember much fix is not only about the players and that's something that a lot of people have ignored. There are officials, club officials. There are officials high up the football structure who are also participating directly or indirectly in much fixing. For example, if I don't pay the referees for two or three seasons, why do I expect that referee to get money? The officiating will be biased. Officiating will be biased and our leagues and unfortunately, the football clubs pay the referees. Not the league managers. How is that so? Now let's talk about, you know, around the stars, they are currently in camp at the International Sports Centre Kasaranya. I understand they are supposed to live tonight or tomorrow for Tehran to play against Tehran next week on Tuesday for an international friendly. What do you make of the preparation so far? We've seen coach Enjin Ferrat is he called Enjin or Enjin? Enjin Pirat. Enjin Pirat. He named a 30-man squad. We told it down to 24 players who will now travel for the assignment ahead on Tuesday next week. Have you been impressed with the preparation so far? I will look at Harambe stars and in the framework of talent development because most of these players have to come from somewhere for them to be called to the national team. I keep on asking myself what is the goal right now that FKF has for Kenyan football? The long-term goal. You must have short-term and long-term goals. What is the strategic plan? What is the goal? Unfortunately, their communication strategy is a bit of a puzzle. We don't know what their goal is. You also do not understand why coach A was picked for the national team. I don't know the goal. Is it to qualify for the Rukaka Cup of Nations? Is it to qualify for the World Cup? Is it just to participate in regional tournaments like Secafa? What is the goal? That is very paramount. Yes, because within the framework the goal, the goal will dictate the kind of coach that you are picking. If I look at the composition of the call-ups into the national team, I was befadled because I didn't understand what we are doing. Did we pick from the selection process you could see a majority of experienced players. But most of them in the next 2 to 3 years they will not be around. They will not be around. So why are we picking these players right now? If they are not going to be around. The only thing I can think of is against Iran and hence scale up the FIFA rankings. That's the only thing I can see from that particular squad. But looking into the future 2 to 3 years to come if we are to qualify for these big tournaments and we are still picking experienced players whom by that time will not be in a position to serve the national team. What happens at that particular time? So as I said what is the goal? The goal dictates the kind of coach he picks even the selection of the national team coach it brought a bit of question marks if you look at his at his background if you look at his statistics and again data it's only in Kenyan football I've seen we are not using data to run to run our soka and in the 21st century data analytics is critical if I look at his data I won't pick him I won't pick him because I know there are local coaches who have got better data than him forget even about the international I won't pick him Number 2 after picking him I look at his technical bench what value are they adding to him are they bringing experience are they bringing exposure there is a talk that within the technical bench we have coaches who are very good in mentoring youngsters that one I agree William Muluya but if you are good in mentoring youngsters then you should not be in the national team maybe maybe under 20 because by the time you are 20 years old you should be playing the national team why not give him under 17 why not include these coaches into the talent development framework which we don't have so Barry you agree with Harold that our age grade football systems has been poor yes and almost nonexistent he talks about 17 under 20 even before Covid the last time these teams were assembled even prepared for any tournament when was it so I think federation's focus is mainly on the arambestars and arambestalates we don't have a particular plan short or long term momentum for the development of the junior ranks from 15, 17, 18 and they are supposed to be the feed assistant so how do you get a national team player who you have not seen for you to see them go scouting around the country maybe in school tournaments put them in under 15 put them in tournaments regular tournaments but now if we don't have how do we even now get a transition plan for the people who are retiring and while he is talking about the goal whether it is short term or long term we have been actively involved in coverage of the team and attending this press conference of the coach at any time as he stated about or the federation have they stated about the ambition they have no I mean the federation I think what Harold was saying was the direct they are looking is more result driven the coach maybe has a 3 year contract perhaps the next one is next year maybe AFKON qualifiers for 2025 I think for now he will get a friendly here and there and he will try to force a result to improve our rankings remember we have been on the call for almost 2 years but talking about future stars the best he can do is maybe as he assembles a team like what you have seen now he picks a few players here and there that maybe have spark and maybe from abroad in the lower leagues but we have not really heard him speak about working with even the young under 20 under 17 systems to incorporate them into the main team I am totally dismissed Kenyan Premier League he said it is not physical enough it is weak that also tells you his view his vision of how we because Gareth Southgate in charge of England national team you have to work with the Premier League clubs and the stakeholders involved in managing the top tier because after all we have seen like England national team the only player that makes to first 11 outside Premier League is Jude Belling Borussia Dortmund in Bundesliga and is 19 only and is 19 so that tells us that you know majority of your players the Premier League the top flight needs to form the bases if if you look the context in which the coach mentioned that we they are not physical okay said we are not physical but I would like to look at the context in general and I have explained the quality of the Kenya Premier League is still very low the quality of coaching is still very low the quality of play is still very low we do not have quality personnel to manage the Kenya Premier League to manage talent development we don't even have the infrastructure okay right now Nairobi has got approximately 11 teams if I'm not wrong assuming that today those 11 teams have fixtures in Nairobi how many teams do you think will be able to hold it how many stadiums do we have double headers so if you look at the context in which the coach mentioned that our league the quality of play is low I agree with him he is genuine he is genuine and instead of us critically dissecting what he is trying to tell us okay we went on our boz now we wanted to attack him we never take time to listen there is a reason why you have one mouth in two years you listen in terms of personnel quality personnel whether it is a playing unit, coaching unit, managerial unit zero we don't have quality personnel in terms of infrastructure zero most of the teams at the end of the football calendar they will tell a player now we need to part ways because you have not performed okay how do you expect a player to perform and don't give him the tools to perform no concrete basis you do not pay him okay you do not provide the right facilities the playing grounds look at it yes you don't give them football boots so how do you then at the end of the season say that now even firing of coaches the official rate is very high we keep on firing coaches left right and center in terms of performances but yet if you demand from the clubs to give these coaches and players what they are required to perform the clubs can't so for me I agree with the head of the national team coach that it is critical that and actually during some statistics that was done towards the beginning of this year releasing a report of best ranked leagues in the continent did we feature no even Tanzania is ahead Ghana is ahead of course South Africa is ahead the northern African teams are ahead we are we do not even have a study to host an international match but you are bidding for Africa in 2017 of course you are going to bid for Africa in 2017 because unlike football Kenya federation the government has a plan yes the government has the resources to do that they can make it happen they'll make it happen what is buffling and I've seen it is there seems to be a disconnect between the national government and football Kenya federation remember when the Talantahela plan was being launched I did not see any representative from football Kenya federation so how do you run a football fraternity without the national government who's going to give you the infrastructure who's going to give you the money who's going to set up the policies who's going to make the laws for example to combat match fixing it boils down to the government it is not the responsibility of the government to go and approach football Kenya federation and that's why I said we don't have quality personnel it is vice versa it is football Kenya federation to approach the national government with the plan wow quality conversation indeed on this particular platform touchline every saturday 1 to 3 we talking matters sporting headlines across all disciplines of course we started with football in the country with a gentleman who means well for the game quite informative indeed before we wind up of course Barry we need to talk a little bit of Kenya primalik there is some slight following of our top tier wuko ingen alas zima tuongele KPL how has been the run of course our director Abdul Razakaz done a good job trying to put up graphics of fixtures and how the standings look like even as we head into international break but I understand kumareko primalik champions are still on top of the table what do you make of the run so far as someone who has been all over in the fields covering our games this season I from my own perspective I think it's been very tight even the big guns are getting it's normal anyway getting beaten getting beaten by small teams small quote in quote and I think it's good for polyg to be that tight whereby you do not expect to always go every Sunday or every weekend and get full points so from that aspect I think there are teams that have really picked up and there are teams that have really you know have really been going full throttle to get at least points because on our screen behind we can see Mother United getting beaten beaten by Bandari in the previous fix of Lindsey Stas do to all Lindsey Stas kawazito the former Kenyan manubaks getting beaten by six Stas by two one team that was involved in allegedly involved in that much fixing altercation and we've seen post arrangers also losing 12 select parts, vika bullets has been straggling and they are officially relegated right as it's looks here up against Karabangi Sharks they lost to them so here sugar which started where they dropped here during Kenya police which has been active loaned the transfer market acquiring one hoom of Kenyan football and sofapaka beating Kamega Hombu is three one yourself you featured for TASCA FC back in the day and they have been blowing cotton cold 30 time Kenya premier the champions holders of you know the trophy they won last season do you think they got what it takes to reclaim the title being a form of Bola for TASCA football club I understand the culture and tradition of the club which is one thing just to win to win the league winning mentality that winning mentality if you are a player that you cannot handle pressure you cannot play for a club like TASCA football club because the goal the outcome they expect at the end of the football calendar is to win the league so when I look at the composition of the club I think it's in safe hands Robert Matano is an experienced coach he's assistant George Mina was my senior TASCA football club then very experienced coach Charles Okere fantastic gentleman very good coach they have the support of the marketing department of the TASCA brand and you mentioned 13 league champion I think it is 12 it's 12 because when when we got off the fifth ban the national executive committee annulled the league of the last season and this goes to explain what I used to say about return investment on potential partners because there are clubs that used money in that particular season there are investors that put their money in that particular season then we wake up and we say because of that particular time we were not in good relations with the national government so we were not in office we are going to annull the league you can imagine the message it sends to investors outside there that I can put my money on this league I can put my money on this football club then at the end of the season what we need at the federation are critical thinkers of skills project management skills marketing skills business development skills people working up and annulling the league not thinking about the consequences of the message annulling the league sends to potential investors then the same individuals start saying that Kenyan football the corporates have refused to do what to join Kenyan football you cannot have your cake and eat it those bitres is telling me that you want to give me the fixtures later for the upcoming you know schedule for Kenyan primarily but in Zoyeshuga we will be playing the stars the same day around the stars we will be playing Iran and if we had time I'm sure Arrol would have decided that when we participate in a personal calendar there need to be a break even for we will be playing Zito the following day we will be entertaining the week of bullets so far as we wind up we got one minute the top tier where are you placing your money for these games for the overall winner God seems to have a slight advantage about task and police have a game in hand so it's going to be tight anybody who fumbles and I hear just breaking news in the next few weeks pirates are coming for him so have a void to feel Arrol your parting shot we winding up Kenyan football in the next few years where you seeing it Kenyan football has the potential of generating approximately 600 billion shillings towards the GDP of this country football is a business until and when we get individuals who have got the requisite skills the word skills is in block skills being a form of football is just an advantage it is not a skill business development project management critical thinkers communication skills you need more advices listen more than the way you talk until and when and it can be done we can be able to create a lot of jobs we can be able to support the national government when it comes to expanding the tax bracket so we need to look at football from a business perspective football from a business perspective the parting shot and final sentiments of Arrol Lege former task advocacy player the national team slightly was joining us this particular afternoon to talk about state of Kenyan football in the wake of Rambestaz friendly up against Iran next week on Tuesday coming away at 7pm mistafrikan time of course that game coming following one year of Kenyan absence in international competitive football after that ban imposed by world football governing body fever over government interference we continue talking the show is coming to an end but of course the conversation continues but we will see Maxwell appear to naienda mandonga kuna mandonga mutu kazi palikasarani gymnasium of course he is up against who bari? Martin Kiyakuzi that's the Uganda Martin Kiyakuzi the Uganda in international Tanzania up against Uganda but of course there are many bouts where Kenya is involved don't go away stay tuned it's the touchline and of course we come to an end but we continue talking it's been amazing and pleasure having you on board continue enjoying the rest of our programming thanks for tuning in and have a blessing weekend