 All right, my next question. Ayn Rand, like a lot of people in her time had a deep fascination with the ancient Greek world. And to put more of a point on it, I think we really mean ancient Athens, the ancient Athenian Empire. And kind of a sliver about half a century in length that really was its golden era of philosophy and art and culture. What would you say, and I know this is difficult for lack of evidence, but what would you say are some of the cultural differences between that period of time in ancient Greece and let's say in ancient Athens versus contemporary America or in American history as well? That's a great, it's a great question. And I'll refer you as I often do to a lecture by Leonard Peacock. I'll answer the question as well, but I'll also refer you to a lecture by Leonard Peacock that I'm sure is available somewhere about why ancient Greece is his favorite civilization. And I mean, one of the proud things, one of the things I've done in my life that I'm proud of is there was a period in time when, really throughout my tenure at the Institute, why I hired Leonard Peacock to do courses and lectures and stuff. And I hired him to do philosophy through induction. It was my, it was the first time I'd ever done a video conference. It was like, it was over the video you sat and you watched Leonard on a television screen. And this is in the mid to late 90s. This was early technology. It cost us a fortune to do. And it was great, it was great. And he did philosophy through induction. Well, one of the things I did is in 1997, I organized a Greek Island cruise with a bunch of objectivist intellectuals, including Leonard Peacock. And there will probably be about 60, 70 attendees. And they would lecture on the boat, on the cruise. Now, what people remember for that cruise was that the cruise ship sucked. That it almost, that it really was not a very nice cruise ship. We tried to keep this cheap. We didn't realize objectivists had money in those days. We thought all objectivists were cheap. Certainly I was very, I was poor in those days. So I didn't know. And so we did it in a very economy and people with a lot of money came and they were disappointed in the facilities. But Leonard gave this lecture on why ancient Greece, as we're going, we did an event in Athens. I got to walk with Leonard Peacock in places and toast Aristotle at dinner. So it was an amazing, amazing trip. Anyway, I highly recommend that talk by Leonard about what made Greek special and why it's his favorite civilization. And I think, I mean, at the end of the speech, you guys all raise a glass at the end and have a toast. Wait, sorry, I missed that. I'm sorry. I believe that listening to that speech at the end, you all, there's a glass and a toast raised. I think that's right. I think that's right. I mean, during the whole time in Greece, we raised several glasses, I think. But yes, the talk was very moving, very emotional and very powerful. So what was I going? Yes, Greece. I mean, the thing that makes Greeks unique is how intellectual the culture was. Now remember, when we talk about Greek culture, we're talking about men. We're talking about free men, right? So slaves didn't have much of a culture and women didn't participate much. But apart from that, the culture was phenomenal. I mean, you had a deep appreciation for the arts, drama, poetry, you had a deep appreciation for sculpture, decoration, painting, although not many paintings from that era survived. Architecture, there was just a deep appreciation for scientists, for thinking, for progress, for philosophers, right? Remember, Socrates walks around town debating people. Imagine, I mean, today, they think you were some crazy guy, you know, some nut who's on his office meds, engaging people in philosophical discussion. Who the hell does that? We go to school to study and we get, you know, professors telling us what, you know, there's no, you know, it's, so a deep respect for reason, a deep respect for thinking, but a deep respect for beauty and art, and a respect admiration and for the, for the, for human beings, mind and body. It was a mind and body, it was an integrated culture, a culture of integrated mind and body. So while the Greeks respected the intellect and loved the intellect, they also respected beauty and body, right? So athletes were heroes and successful athletes were heroes and, you know, I don't know how many people know this, but the Olympics, the athletes competed nude. They don't wear anything. So there's even a positive, a very pre-Christian, positive attitude to the human body, to nudity, to sexuality. So even in terms of sex, I think there's a sense in which they were more open, more, you know, they viewed it as part of life. It wasn't this thing that, you know, somehow initiates original sin and is sinful and bad. So it's a civilization of mind, body integration, real integration of knowledge, admiration of human beings, admiration of heroes, admiration of beauty, and, you know, you walked in a Greek city, sculptures, and not just Athens. I mean, I've been to Ephesus, which is probably the best preserved ancient Greek ruins. And it's just magnificent and the sculptures everywhere, everything is sculptures and everything is decorated and it's alive. It's alive in a way that I don't think our civilization is. We suffer so, I mean, I don't think, I don't think any, almost anybody appreciates the extent to which Christianity is destructive to the human spirit and destructive to civilization. And how much we've got to overcome, you know, overcoming original sin, the Garden of Eden, all these religious mythologies that, you know, what's his name? Jordan Peterson celebrates and we should condemn and we should move on from. So yeah, Greece was amazing. I get the impression that a lot of what we think of as public works of creations of public baths and things in ancient Greece and ancient Rome were largely privately funded by, you know, large donors. They could have been, I don't know enough of the history, but it wasn't a laissez-fait place, but it was a place of democracy in the sense that people actually determining their own political fate. And there was a lot of positive, I mean, yes, and it was the beginning of a market and Athens was a trading. It was a port and it was a trading city that became rich through trade. First, maybe not the first, the Phoenicians were probably the first, but they continued the trend towards globalization in the context, they context globalization, man, trade across the entire Middle East and even contact with far away places like India and China existed back then through kind of the Persian empire. So yeah, I mean, you know, but the real expression of Greece is through its art and through its philosophy. I think we all agree that the Olympics should be done naked now. I'm not sure we all agree, but yes, that would be something, that would be something. What we need today, what I call the new intellectual would be any man or woman who is willing to think, meaning any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason, by the intellect, not by feelings, wishes, whims or mystic revelations. Any man or woman who values his life and who does not want to give in to today's cult of the stare, cynicism and impotence and does not intend to give up the world to the dark ages and to the role of the collectivist, broods. All right, before we go on, reminder, please like the show, we've got 163 live listeners right now, 30 likes, that should be at least 100. I figure at least 100 of you actually like the show. Maybe they're like 60 of the Matthews out there who hate it, but at least the people who are liking it, I wanna see a thumbs up, there you go. Start liking it, I wanna see that go to 100. All it takes is a click of a thing, whether you're looking at this. And you know the likes matter, it's not an issue of my ego, it's an issue of the algorithm. The more you like something, the more the algorithm likes it. So you know, and if you don't like the show, give it a thumbs down. Let's see your actual views being reflected in the likes. 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