 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Of all the podcasts we did over there at Paleo, Greenfield's episode was one of my favorites. It's up there. I know, right? It for sure is my favorite that we've ever done with it. We've done a lot with that, definitely. We definitely broke some new ground, I think, topic-wise. Yeah, lately. You know what? What I love about our show too is, and I will always, I think all of us will keep it this way where it's raw and just sometimes where our headspace is. And I know some people don't like it. They get frustrated if we're talking about political bullshit because that's the climate right now or we've got personal stuff going on. But I mean, that's really the most, my favorite part about this show is that if it's on my fucking mind or it's on one of your guys' mind, like, yeah, we're talking about it. We're gonna talk about it. And I think we've continued to get more comfortable with that. And even if that means those third rail-type topics or taboo subjects that nobody else wants to address, like God, like religion, like spirituality, like politics. Oh no. And with Ben, we really dove into him and some of his beliefs and God and things like that. We also talk about things like coffee enemas and how he injected stem cells into his dick and all kinds of the weird shit that he's done. You know, all that stuff. It was fun. His bike accident that he had. Wiley was up there. The one that I made fun of him in the previous episode. He was riding an elliptical bike. I never choose a dumb bike. Which is weird. Dude, how about, I came out when we were, our drinking episode that we just did yesterday, right? And I was clowning on him and teasing him because of the stupid bike he was probably riding. And then we interview Kyle. Kyle has no idea that we had that conversation and he totally calls him out. It's the same exact conversation. Pretty funny. Then you actually get to hear Ben now in this episode kind of describe. You know, all joking aside, I'm glad he's okay. And the guy, the guy, and he heals like a, like, champion, like I saw what he looked like. Yeah, I saw what he looked like when he first fell off the bike. And then two days later, I'm like, what? How did you heal so fast? Maybe there's something too, all this weird shit that he does himself. I don't know. But this episode gets super immune system. This episode gets deep. And we have some really, really good conversation with him. And I agree, Adam, the best episode we've had with Ben Greenfield to date. One of the things about Ben is that, you know, he is an extremely unique individual. And what I love about him is he is 100% comfortable with who he is. He's about, he's real. Yeah, he is. Super real. He's not gonna waver his beliefs or his thoughts because it's a tough question or it's something that, you know, so he knows that some people are gonna not like, like he's gonna speak his mind. And I think he articulates himself incredibly well and he's very, very intelligent person. And so these are the type of people I love to have these third way of topics with. Let's get a little bit deeper. I like to talk to somebody who I think is really intelligent, well read, has a great perspective on things. Like these are the conversations and the subjects that I don't wanna just, I don't wanna debate or argue just some dummy about a topic about this. Like I wanna have this conversation with someone who I respect as another intelligent human being. And that may not totally agree with me. And so we can have these discussions. So hopefully those of you that are not triggered by the word God. If you're looking for like neural hacks or like stuff, it's probably not the episode. Even though we did, like Sal said we did bring that up. Yeah, I mean, if you wanna know deep about the whole stem cell injections into his dick, we went deep into that. We went deep into the coffee enema, which I know Sal is already getting his rig set up so he can shove a tube of his ass. So that's, that's all. It really got him excited. You didn't see him, you guys. I might as well put coffee in there since it's in there anyway. You know what I mean? But we talk about the brown flow. The science about that. Cause I've always wondered like, why coffee? I was teasing Sal, but I perked up just as much. I was very interested in why you would do something like that. Oh yeah. And so I don't know. Next time my tummy hurts, maybe he can get me to do it. Maybe we'll stick some shit in our ass. Now Greenfield's got his supplement company now that's pretty high. It's high quality stuff. My girlfriend actually uses the face serum and she loves it. And knowing Ben, Ben doesn't fool around. So if he's gonna put something out, it's gonna be high quality. The website for his supplements is GetKeyon. So let's get G-E-T-K-I-O-N dot com. So you can check out his products. So you of course host the extremely popular and been around for a long time podcast, the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast. Now I do also wanna say this. We are getting close to summer, which means a lot of you are probably trying to get leaner. Now we have two nutrition based guides that can help you. One is the intuitive nutrition guide that teaches you the steps you need to take to get you to a point where you can eat intuitively. And we also have an intermittent fasting guide that teaches you how to utilize fasting the right way. Now we're giving both of those away for free this month. If you enroll in any of our maps bundles where we take multiple maps programs, we combine them together for a particular goal and we discount them by about 30% off. So if you get a bundle, you will get both the intuitive guide and the fasting guide for free. You can find all of that at mindpumpmedia.com and without any further ado, here we are talking to our good friend, Ben Greenfield. Boom. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, buzz, I'm in love, got me so fast. Boom, boom, boom, boom. If you guys heard Angelo beatbox, did you guys meet Angelo? No. He's the COO for Keyon and he is the best beatboxer. Oh wait, no maybe you did, I think you did introduce us to him. Dude, he probably met him over at the expo, he's amazing, he's like the best beatboxer I've ever heard. I've got videos somewhere. Yeah. It's an interesting skill. Hey, so tell me right now, cause I know the last couple of times we talked, I know you've been transitioning over to the new logo, the new brand, I see new people on your team, like what's your team shaping up like right now? What do you got going on? A lot, but first, before we close the loop on beatboxing. Let's keep it in, man. He taught me how to learn beatboxing and you say the word boots then cats. You guys heard of that? Boots, cats, boots, cats. Boots and cats, and boots and cats, and boots and cats, and boots and cats, and boots and cats, and boots and cats, and boots and boots, and boots and cats. And that's like how you start learning how to beatbox, is you do like boots and cats, and you just say that. Oh, that's funny. And it kind of works all those muscles and you just learn how to say that over and over your processor. That's brilliant. And then you progress to the next level, which I don't know what it is. We're not even two minutes in, fucking knowledge bombs. Coming here with some cats. Yeah, the company's coming. This is our first time to put on some big boy pants and do an expo, do a conference. What's that look like? What's the prep look like for that? I don't know. I just told people. Yeah, he's all the way who writes the title of that shit. Show up and write some stupidly big check for fake grass outside of a booth. Are they? Plastic plant. That's so what it is. Oh man. Is it typically like expensive to run and then do people typically get a good return from it? Cause I feel like, so, you know, yeah, exactly. So it's like brand awareness, right? You show up, it depends. So we wanted our booth to be an experience where you could go and sit and read some coffee table books and get some deep tissue work done and hang out and do. Oh shit, that was all yours. Yeah, that whole section where people just like lounging and sitting, that was all kind of our section. So that's what I told them. I'm like, I don't want to just be like handing out little chunks of protein bars and miniature Dixie cups of coffee to people as they walk by because that's not an experience for people. I want people to have an experience. So my initial idea was we'd have like all these little like lounging chambers. You could crawl inside and put some headphones on and just hibernate and rely, like having to be the place where you can go and relax. But either way, yeah, that was our goal and I think that's a good idea when you go to expo or conferences you need to stand out and have some kind of experience. But it went well, we launched our coffee and it's the, it's a very pure antioxidant rich coffee. Did you guys try it? I did, it was delicious. It was actually very good. It's almost as good as the elephant shit coffee or the weasel poop coffee. Weasel poop, I thought it was monkey poop. I've had the mongoose poop that's from Bali and it's like, it's literally like I have some. It's like the ferments in the digestive tract or the elephant, the elephant is black ivory coffee. Well, so the theory behind that is that the weasels go around and they know to pick the the ripest perfect berries like right at time, right? They have the ability to do that. So they eat them and then they shit them out and then they make the coffee. And this stuff happens. It's not just the beans that they select. I wanna see the promo video for this. Yeah, it's not just like the selection process. It's the fermentation process, the change in alkalinity. Oh that I didn't know. Yes, yes. I thought it was just because they were picking the best ones. Oh, that's a lazy way to do. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, think about that though. If you got an animal that's out there, they're gonna, there's more likely their senses are a lot more heightened than our just our vision, right? So they're gonna be able to get the best one. So I assume that that was the reason. Fermentation, it's like Wonder Bread versus sourdough bread, right? That sounds logic. You get a nice sourdough once it comes out the weenals, Anas. Weenals, weasel? That's a tongue twister. That's another weasel, Anas. Weasel, Anas, weasel. Weasel, Anas, weasel. We're gonna add that in the boots and cats. And then the elephant one is the elephant one. I think you can get that one on Amazon, the black ivory coffee. No, I've never heard of that. Now, what's that one? It's the same concept except it's a big ass elephant. And I don't know if it's possible. Way more expensive because there's a lot more shit. You gotta clean off. Yes, you gotta dig through a lot of shit with the elephant one. That one's black ivory coffee. Actually, I talked about that on a podcast once and the distributor emailed me and he's like, I want to send you some coffee. And I never heard back, but I was very excited for a short period of time. The first short period of time the elephant shot coffee right off it. Yeah, so we launched our coffee and people seem to like it and we were supposed to be launching a bar. I've been designing a new, like a clean food bar. Different from the one that we've had. Yes, yeah, I changed up all the ingredients. Now, open it. I like that bottle. I might get in trouble for saying this but we had to discontinue that bar because a couple of people actually got like a tooth damage from the processing because some of the cacao nibs are very large and almost like the texture crunched down on rocks. Some of them broke their teeth? Yes, and so we had to recall all the bars and redo the whole cacao nib process. Oh shit, shut the fuck up dude. We're supposed to have these bars ready for this next, for Paleo FX, they're supposed to get bars in their bags and hand out little bars to have with your coffee. And the manufacturer messed up. He had quinoa instead of carnivore. This is what I was starting to tell you guys. So what's the difference? What is carnivore? That's close enough. I'm glad you asked. Yeah, I appreciate it. So they're very similar. They're very similar in terms of, like quinoa is like a super grass as high in amino acids and minerals and fatty acids. Hippies like them. Maybe a three is, yeah, quinoa. But carnivore, it's in the quinoa family but it's also called baby quinoa and it's a smaller and also more antioxidant rich version of quinoa because, and if you look at it, it's just darker in color. It's like a tiny little blueberry versus a big fat blueberry. The tiny blueberry is technically a different mouth feel, different texture, more antioxidants. And it's a crunchy mouth feel. It's like a crunchy, like a rice crispy mouth feel. And that's the mouth feel that I tested on all the bars and that's the one I wanted. And then they finished up and they had quinoa because some idiot doesn't know the difference in carnivore. Did you know right away when you've been into it or what? Yeah, yeah, so we had to, no, I didn't even bite into it. We looked at all the label. I'm going through all the ingredients and the final packaging list and everything. It says quinoa. I'm like, wait a minute. So, how many did they make like that? I don't know. I think it was like a $25, $30,000 mistake. But they don't charge you obviously. In the supplement industry, if the manufacturer basically doesn't do the right thing and they eat the cost of it. What do you have to do with all those bars? Sling them, man. 50% off. Shoot them out of the can in the next time at an expo. Children in Ethiopia can go break their teeth on the couch. What is this? This is not carnivore. What is this? Shit, you have given me quinoa. It's terrible. So, how many quinoa, it's so 90s. You had three or four then stations, right? Or how many boost spots did you have to rent out for all? Just one. Oh, okay, I didn't know that. I thought when I saw someone with that big of a section like that, that'd be like. Oh, yeah, it was one booth, but it was whatever their big ass option is, right? Oh, okay. You can get a small or medium or big ass. What's the difference in pricing for all the levels? Do you know? I don't know. Of course you don't. You're the worst, dude. You know, you're the worst CEO. You guys have texted me before and asked me about analytics. Somebody, why don't you guys take me? I should know better by now all the time as we look up. Yeah, I have realized that you have to outsource a lot and stick to your best purpose in life. For me, it's writing articles and it's speaking and it's podcasting and it's doing some of the visionary work like Connie Wa versus Keen Wa and going out and doing things like that. For me, I have the numbers and I have the analytics. I have access to all that stuff on my phone, but I just don't have the time. No, it makes sense. I don't have the time. It makes sense. And I should know by now all the times we've hung out every time I've asked you that. I don't know how many people listen to the podcast. Now, what I do sometimes do is I go to the iTunes store and I see what our ranking is. And so I could tell you our ranking. I know the word. Which that shit's weird. That's always right. I don't know what goes on. Yeah, hold on a second. I need to ask you a serious question. Who are you guys paying at iTunes? You're in the what's hot section permanently. That thing doesn't fucking change. I noticed something weird. Something's going on here. You are so hot. It's like you're here to drive by McDonald's every day for like two decades and every day on their little board is like, New, the Big Mac. No, it's not hot anymore. It's been around a while. You're lava hot for like nine years, that's all. Secret sauce. We discovered that back in the late 80s. Would it be funny if McDonald's tried to remark it like that? That'd be great. New, the Big Mac. You're my fries. So from what I can understand, because I kind of look, and there are a couple others like Rob Wolf, the Paleo solution, and then Dave Asprey's Bulletproof Radio. They're just permanently there. They're permanently there. And I think it's because when I first started podcasting, Rob Wolf was there, and I was there. I think about a year or two later, Dave's appeared. But this was a long time ago. This was like, I think like nine or 10 years ago. So I think part of it is just seniority. I think it's just being around for a long enough time keeps you in that what's hot category. I don't know. I feel like it's a, I feel like there's a person manually putting them in and just they just don't pay attention. They just left it there. I don't know. It ever disappears, I'm screwed. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, yeah. I think my entire podcasting business hinges upon this mysterious apple that's hot category. I think they don't give a shit. That's what I think. I think it's just for apple. It's set it up and we're like, that's kind of how I'm out there. You got to wonder who's like maybe one person in a cubicle at Apple running the entire apple. Well, it's called the Apple podcast, right? And then their app sucks. Yeah. It's terrible. Everything about it just kind of blows, but it's still like 80%. Hey, there's a staff for you that I made up. 80% or something like that of the podcast. Come from iTunes. Come from iTunes. I actually think that's a somewhat accurate number because I do listen to a podcast about podcasting. I listen to the Libsyn podcast because I host my podcast with Libsyn. So do we. And they often will give you little tips during that, like about being a good podcaster. So I listen to that one, but at the very end of that show, they go over stats. Like here's what a normal number of downloads is. Here's where most of the downloads are coming from, Spotify versus Apple podcasting versus what else is there? Yeah. Oh, Stitcher. Podcast Republic. Stitcher. Yeah, there's time. So that's something that they said was it's still like the lion's share of all the podcasts. Now, I think that's going to change, though. I see what's happened. I see what's the moves that Spotify is making and how user-friendly it is. I love Spotify Search. I think just podcasting hasn't made its way to being cool on Spotify yet. But I think the other platforms do a better job. So it'll be interesting to see how that flips thing and starts to share. There's a lot more money in it now. You've seen a lot of sponsors getting into podcasting. Just over the last three years, we've seen a huge change and increase. So now that the money's starting to come in, they're going to start to pay attention. Now, for me, I only ever use the iTunes app because when I listen to a podcast, I listen to it when I'm working out. And I never work out with my phone. I have this old-school Apple iPod shuffle. And I buy these on Amazon. I have one still. They're waterproofed iPod shuffles. There's no, you guys know how I'm not big into Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and having too many signals around. So this is super plain, Jane. There's no Bluetooth. There's no Wi-Fi. There's also no podcasting app, unfortunately. There's no speed-up button. There's no slow-down button. It's just you plug it into iTunes. You put all your podcasts on it. Why'd you just get a fucking cassette player? Because this is smaller. I can spearfish with it. I can take a cold shower with it. I can work out with it. But I beat them. I bring them to hell and back. And then I just buy a new one. They're probably hella cheap, right? Well, they're like novelty. They're around like $100 something like that. So they're not super cheap, but they're waterproof. They have a good damage policy. So typically about eight out of 10 of the ones that I buy, I can usually get like a damaged kind of Amazon refund on. But that's what I like for the past decade. That's the only way I've ever consumed audio books and podcasts or anything like that. And I have used my app on my phone a few times just to see what apps are doing. Like tried to find my podcast in the app. That's how I know the Apple podcasting app just sucks. You can't find anything on it. But that's all I use is this little Apple iPod shuffle. And I recommend, you know, a lot of people I recommend these cold showers too, right? You start and end each day with a five minute cold shower. It's like Ray Cronus's 2013 article in Wired magazine. He got into his whole shiver system. And he actually came and spoke. I put on one event ever in my life. And it just almost killed me from the cortisol. But it was the Becoming Superhuman Live event in Spokane, Washington. And I flew in Ray Cronus and Jimmy Moore and Monica Reinagel and Dave Asprey and all these folks who I was kind of like dialoguing with in the fitness and the nutrition industry. And Ray Cronus was kind of a big deal at that time because he'd written this article in Wired magazine about the shiver system. But all he was doing with his clients to allow them to lose a ton of weight was a five minute cold shower, 20 seconds cold, 10 seconds hot, 10 times through in the morning, same thing in the evening. Oh, that's kind of it. I fall like I know Wim Hof teaches where you start the first week, you do 15 seconds at the end, cold, and then the second, 30 seconds the other way up. That's kind of what I fall right now. But I've never seen anyone do cycles like that. That would be kind of annoying. Ray Cronus is a fascinating guy. You guys might want to interview him sometime. He just wrote a book. I think it's called the other book or research paper called The Metabolic Winter. Very smart guy. Very smart guy. Personally, for me, and I've shared this on our show before, of all the hacks and things that I've gotten into in the health and fitness space, the cold contrast thing has been, I think it's been a game changer for sure. It's been a huge, I could tell right away after I started doing it, well, not right away, it took about a year of consistently doing it. Did I notice that like this, I looked back at the year and went, holy shit, like I'd never got sick this year. And I've always been a guy who gets sick like four or five times a year. It's just common. And I always attribute that to, one, I have a weak immune system too. I'm always around people and planes and touching handles and shit like that. So I just thought, oh man, I just get, that's why it's not because like anything else. And then when I started doing that, like it made a huge difference. Yeah, for me, I think getting sick involves being at the back of the airplane doing all my stretches, doing like pushups and putting my face down in the aisle of the carpet on the airplane. I think that's probably the whole thing. Do you really do that? I do love to work out in the airplane bathroom. Yeah, like the airplane is the one. That's not possible, you're like, yes. Yeah, you would not believe how many body weight squats you can do. That's actually my rule when I travel is every time I go to the bathroom on an airplane, I do squats. You do not. How many squats do you do? So these are, I have these little rules in my life. Like they're just spread all throughout my life. Like you got to do a cold shower. That's not weird at all. So the airplane is 20 squats. International flight, whatever. I've taken a bunch of wine and weed. You know, and I'm tired as hell. Anytime I stand up for pee, it's 20 squats. 20 squats. And the rule is the butt's got to touch that little like miniature Japanese-sized toilet seat in the airplane bathroom. Another one is anytime I go to the bathroom at a restaurant, I do 40 squats. So I go in the stall, I do 40 squats. Same thing, butt touches the seat and back up. So it's kind of like a glycemic variable. You ever have anybody like, is everything okay in there, Sarah? Well, no, because that's why I go in the stall. So you plant your feet, you know, hip-width apart and honestly it just looks like you're taking a shit. Nobody can tell you're standing up. So you keep it up. Wow, you're really pushing, buddy. Except for you see this six foot three, this hand is popping up and down. Oh, oh, oh. It's a little weird, dude. It's a little weird, yeah. Pants up or down? For the squats, pants up. So if someone's really paying attention, they wouldn't be able to see like the folds at the bottom by my shoes to see that my pants are not going down. That's a big shit, that I'm not gonna do squats. But I- Like, is that a new pooping technique? Yeah, I was getting around. It really moves things for me. I do this a lot. I've got the hex bar dead left outside my gym and I do five reps about every two hours. I go out there and I lift the hex bar. I do 30 kettlebell swings. Anytime I step over the kettlebell, it's at the base of the stairs going from the office. You're doing trigger sessions. Here's the thing, though. There's a lot of brilliance in that. And I'll tell you what, we're laughing and kind of making fun of you, but I do the same thing. There's a lot of things in my life now. And this is what I teach to clients. Like to me, those things will change your life more. Completely. Than like the next this or the next that or the best this, it's like- What I tell people is unless you're an athlete, you're getting a paycheck or you have an event that you're in intense preparation for and it's something that means a lot to you. Exercise, like at the end of the day, going to the gym should be an option, not a requirement, right? It should be an option, because the whole day you've just stayed active, right? You've moved, you've walked, you've changed positions frequently. You've, whatever, dropped and done 10 burpees at the end of each hour. So you've done 80 burpees by the time you leave the office, you know, that stuff adds up. Yeah, I mean, that's our trigger session concept in our program. And that frequent stimulation of muscle fibers results in some pretty incredible gains. You would not believe, I mean, you think 20 squats, 40 squats, and I forgot, like Ben, that's super easy. You go try on a daily, you know, throughout the day, just a few reps of something throughout the entire day. Watch how your body changes. Yeah. It blows people away. It blew me away when I first started doing it. Yeah, I've got a conference rule. When I go to a conference, I know I'm not going to work out. I'm not going to lead a workout. I know nothing's going to happen. And sometimes you plan for a workout and you get to the end of the day of the conference and people want to go have drinks at 5 p.m. And there's a dinner it said like you just don't. Yeah. So my rule is I return to that cold shower concept. I do that hot cold contrast at the beginning of the day and the end of the day, right? So, you know, if I walk into my hotel room at 11 p.m. after having been at a dinner, I can still get myself into the shower, which is great for sleep too, right? Because it decreases your core temperature. And then for every hour of the entire day, 30 burpees. Just duck away anywhere. Go outside, go in the bathroom, go in it, you know, stairwell, whatever, 30 burpees. On any like super duper busy day, hot cold contrast shower, beginning of the day, end of the day, then 30 burpees every hour. The other benefit to this that I noticed is when you do that every hour type of activity, because I've done that as well. And that quite is intense as 30 burpees, but you get this almost neurotropic effect, you know, where you feel like you can think sharper and faster and you're more awake. It's better than any kind of cup of coffee I've ever had. Yeah. Except Keon. Coffee. Is there anything you do to like counter stuff that you know isn't like serving your body ideally? Like if you were to drink all night long, is there something you do to counter that? Yeah, that's a good question. Or like I fry, what I do, like if we go out to a restaurant and eating out, I'm not making my own food, 100% every time Katrina and I will walk for 45 minutes an hour right afterwards. Yeah, and so the research that they've done on controlling post-prandial blood glucose swings is that it is indeed after, not before that you reap most of the benefits of movement. So after work. So I'm on to the right track, that's good strength. I have the same rule. You must at least stroll first. And sometimes it's just five minutes. That's all you have time for. But a post-prandial stroll, it's pretty shocking, the effect that has on glycemic variability. I believe I saw a huge difference when I started to implement that. Now prior, it's actually also quite shocking the extent to which you actually need to work out or the very short period of time that you need to work out to actually notice a pretty significant increase in insulin sensitivity when you're eating a meal. So pre-meal, especially pre-big meal or cheat meal or carbohydrate intensive meal, as little as 30 seconds of explosive training actually increases your insulin sensitivity. So you can literally just drop and do 15 burpees as fast as you can. Now in an ideal scenario, you would do strength training where you're emptying muscle glycogen levels or maybe tapping into liver glycogen levels so that if you're gonna drink alcohol, some of that fructose is actually just used to replenish liver glycogen and doesn't even spill out into the bloodstream as triglycerides. So for me, one thing is a good strength training session and it could even be just like you, an old school bodybuilding-esque session where your real goal is just to decrease muscle glycogen. You're just turning on the switches to change the way your body. Turning on the glute floor transporter. So ideal scenario movement-wise is explosive training, resistance training prior and then aerobic exercise and that post-prank. I always find there's so much wisdom in old cultures because if you look at all like the major old cultures of the world, they all have some form of an activity post-meal. So like Japanese cultures, Chinese cultures, Mediterranean cultures, after a meal, you typically go out for a walk with the family and it's just something you do as part of the, it's actually part of the meal and it's funny how they've done that for so long. Yeah, yeah. Modern, modern paleo enthusiasts, they go to the freezer and they get out there at their fat bomb and they eat their paleo fat bomb with the coconut milk and the coconut flakes. Now, what does that do? Posts as much? Nothing. Nothing. Oh, that's good. See, that's not adding up right for me. Did you know that the ketogenic paleo diet doesn't have any calories in it? So that's all you need to do is just get up and have your post-meal fat bomb in it. It's like, you know, a lot of that stuff with paleo effects was pretty tasty. I didn't eat a lot this year. Did you guys eat that much this year? You know, I like taking the supplements that you're supposed to feel for fun. So I did a lot of that, but I saw a lot of CBD this year. A lot of CBD. A lot of CBD. You know, but here's what I did find about CBD. Not the ones I saw at least were not dosed in the doses that people typically will get like the benefit from. So they're like, you know, one milligram or two milligram. A lot of DHA and added oil. Yeah. All coming from hemp oil. Not a lot of actual active ingredient. Yeah. You know, it's a lot. It's expensive. CBD is expensive. I must have, what were there? Six or seven different CBD. Yep. Who's had a relatively small expo, right? So CBD appears to be one of the new trends which surprises me because I was in the CBD industry and payment processors shut you down right and left and you got to change URLs and, you know, Facebook ads will ban you if your business that's doing CBD is associated with any other business. You got to have a full separate corporation. I mean, it's a pain in the butt to be in that. Which one of you had mentioned this morning about all the YouTube pulling down all the Neutropic videos? Oh, I did. Yeah, I saw that. Someone tweeted me about that. What's up with that? I have no idea. I just saw like a few channels had experienced like all of their videos being pulled down with anything related to Neutropics. Have you guys ever had one of your videos pulled down? We actually haven't. Yeah, that's surprising. I got one pulled down. It was, I did a how to give yourself an IV video where I kind of put my arm out in front of the camera and it was just me. I'd propped up my phone and I did the IV into the cubital vein. You can't show it in an exact way. Is it just because somebody flagged it down after about a month? I'm guessing something, but, you know, they said, oh, he's not a doctor. He's, I don't know. Maybe I had poor technique, which I probably do. Speaking of videos, I want to ask you about the coffee, and I'm about to put it on Instagram. Please, yes. Yeah, let's talk about this. Fuckin' insidious. I love you, bro. I fucking love you sometimes. You go all out, man. It's great. All in. Yeah, all in. What about it? It's not rocket science. You put coffee in your butt. Hold it in there. Can you explain that to us? You put it out there. Let's first talk about why we would put coffee in our ass. Then we can talk about... Is it because it's already brown? Like, what is the deal with it? Does it taste better there? Oh, it's like the coffee beans. Right. That's exactly it, Sal. It's because it's brown. What happens when you fart? I mean like, I want to know all this stuff. It's all about color coordination. That's why you don't do with tapochico or kombucha. It's got to be coffee. Well, you know, it almost returns back to Adam's question about alcohol or party mitigation strategies. Part of it is related to that, which I'll explain in a moment. Oh, interesting. But I also, by the way, to close that loop, before I go out to an event where I think I might be drinking or I might be eating a lot of suspect food or whatever, so that I remember, I placed four activated charcoal capsules next to my bedstand. That's how it's done. It's like, sounds like Daddy comes around and he gets the charcoal. That makes a big difference. It helped us. I always have minerals in my back pocket, like these little fizzy mineral tablets that you can drop in the water as like an electrolyte tablet. So the charcoal, the minerals, and then glutathione. Glutathione is usually the morning after, like some kind of like sublingual glutathione. I also have glutathione intramuscular injections at home where you just draw it into a needle and you just inject glutathione into your butt cheek. It's actually a really good way to absorb glutathione, and then I have glutathione IVs. So I do two glutathione IVs each week, and that's not because I drink to excess twice a week. It's because I actually have the gene that causes you to not make that much superoxide dismutase. Oh, interesting. Which is an antioxidant that enhances your glutathione production. So for me, it's almost like a- You're supplementing for your needs. It's like a hack that is specific to my genetic predisposition to not make a lot of glutathione. And so the coffee enema, one of the main things that that does is it causes an increase in bile production by the gallbladder and it also increases glutathione and antioxidant, not production activity in the liver. Now why does coffee do that? Is it because of the caffeine that gets absorbed rectally? It's the caffeine, it's the antioxidants. It's the peristaltic effects on the, especially the lower GI tracts. When you've got all that in your system, it's almost a little bit of a constriction and dilation response that happens. And what you do is you have this, I'll tell you exactly how I do it. You make your coffee, use a really good pure coffee. Can you use espresso? Like your brand maybe? It's good to say that. I like a good espresso. Yes, that's the only reason I wanted a pure coffee for my brand was to put it in my butt in a more guilt-free- I'm Italian. Can you use espresso or does it have to be like American coffee? You could probably use espresso even though it has less caffeine so you get less of that effect. And by the way- There is a company called Glitamins that makes like a coffee enema suppository. If you want to kind of start small and work your way up and it has all the stuff that activates bile production, you don't get the peristalsis. You don't get that feeling of being squeaky, squeaky, squeaky clean afterwards. But it still causes that bile production. Does it make you feel that way? Oh my goodness. You just feel amazing. You feel just- Oh God, you're convincing Sal right now. There's one guy I know who's a former bodybuilder. Chris, I'm blanking out his name, starts with a Z. Anyways, he does a coffee enema every morning. He and his wife, both big fitness bodybuilders. Yeah, they do a coffee enema every single morning. Maybe they do it at night. Maybe it's to reverse the damage from all the whey protein bars and shakes and all the other constipating nutrients that a bodybuilder consumes. But anyways, you get a stainless steel bucket and you make yourself coffee. And obviously you want to make it with a method that doesn't have a lot of ground. So French press would be far inferior like that. You're all grainy in there. Yeah, use like a paper filter. Sure. And then you make sure you cool it to room temperature so you don't get ass burns. Made that mistake. It's like when you sip coffee and it's too hot, you can just kind of spit it out. Don't put it in your ass. Maybe put an ice cube in your mouth. If you shoot coffee up your butt, that's too hot. You can't just like spit it out or stick an ice cube up there. Like it just burns. So check the temperature. You can just put your, you know, wash your hands first, put your finger in there and check the temperature. And then the stainless steel end of my buckets, you just kind of put them up on the counter in your bath and they have a tube that comes out of them and you smear the end of the tube with a little bit of coconut oil and you just lay there and you put about a quart of coffee into your backside then you roll over onto your right side and you lay there for like 15 or 20 minutes. And for me, I'm usually whatever, talking to my phone or I saw it on Instagram. Hey, Ben, what are you doing right now? I'm chatting. And then you just go and you let it all out. And then you go to the bathroom? You just go to the bathroom and everything comes out and you feel freaking amazing. Now, does it, do you absorb, do you get the caffeine? I was just gonna say, do you get a super rush like? You definitely, I mean, obviously they deliver medicines, you know, anally because of the huge amount of vascularization and capillaries down there. So yeah, absolutely. Direct to the bloodstream. Do you have to be careful because you might take too much caffeine that way or it might hit you faster? In other words, if you're sensitive to caffeine, like you have to like be careful with how much you. I would imagine, I mean, I've been drinking coffee for so long that tolerance is pretty high. I could see if you weren't a coffee drinker and you needed a coffee enema, you'd probably be pretty wired for a while. Well, you know what? If you're not a coffee drinker, start with your mouth first. Yeah, start with the mouth. Don't go ass first. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, enemas are, like a lot of cultures have a pretty big history of everything from like yogurt and probiotic enemas to water enemas to coffee enemas. That's a good topic. What other things have you put in your butt, like an enema style? No, seriously, I want to know like. Let's go to the toy car. Let's go to the coffee, obviously. I've done a probiotic enema. So basically you ferment probiotics in coconut water on the counter. You can add butyric acid capsules to it as well because when you eat a lot of fiber, you'll add butyric acid in your colon. Firmets, you produce a lot of beneficial short chain fatty acids that help with everything from sleep to neurotransmitter, so it's kind of a cool way to populate the large intestine. But but but but but but but Butyric acid, probiotics in coconut water, you let it sit ferment for about 48 hours on your kitchen counter, keep it at room temp, and then that would be an example of an enema and that would be one you keep in for a longer period of time, like you would literally like hang from an inversion table or a yoga swing or anything else or you wanted to really have it populating your gut. This would be in a situation where you had poor gut flora or bacterial imbalance or you'd been on antibiotics and you needed to repopulate the gut flora. What happens if you sneeze? I don't know. Let's find out. So what were effects from that? What did you feel from doing that? Did you notice anything? Just better GI function, less GI distress. That was after a period of time where I'd been on antibiotics for MRSA, which if I had to go back, I probably wouldn't do antibiotics. I'd take more of the oregano thieves essential oil type of root. But I was on antibiotics. I wanted to repopulate my system. So you can, of course, take probiotics, but a lot of them don't survive the digestive tract intact. And so going at it from both ends. Have you tried alcohol yet? I've heard of that. I haven't tried it. I've done THC, THC depositors. And the reasoning behind that was there's a company in Washington called Botanica and they make a lubricant called Bond. And it's a THC sex lube. And it works very well. And you get almost like a localized crotch high. And so I thought, well, could you do the same thing with one of these like, you know, like they make those THC capsules that have the coconut oil. It's just coconut on THC. It's not like you're shoving a bunch of FD and C blue and preservatives up your backside. So I tried this and you really do. You get a localized high for your crotch. That would be like a pre-sex type of strategy to do like a THC depositor. So for all these guys on that idea. For all these young guys that are the two-pump chumps, this is a great strategy for you right here. Yeah, there you go. So I've done a coffee enema. I've done the probiotic. I've done those glitamins I told you about. And I've done the THC thing. And the buck stops there except I have a couple of times actually gotten pelvic floor therapy. Therapist actually goes in through your butthole and kind of reaches up inside and gets like the peridium in all those areas that tend to get super duper tight. It's something more commonly done for women, but you can actually get like a pelvic floor therapy. Do you know what the difference is? Like kind of percentage wise, if I were to consume that pill versus taking it rectally, how much more does it get digested or in your position? You're closing out of my mouth. You mean the THC one? Any of them. I mean, that's what I've just heard that like, that's why alcohol hits you so hard. It gets more rapid and complete when you go through your butt. It is. But do you know about how much? Just like a subling, I have no clue on percentages. Well, you got to know some because if it's like the difference of 40 and 42, like, you know what I'm saying? It's like you're shoving up your ass for 2%. You mean for the THC? Yeah, for that it's more just like the fact that you get a localized high. OK. Yeah, I mean it is. But what about the other stuff? I mean, why not take it? Because I would imagine all the things that you were explaining, even for the coffee enema, I would think even when you drink it normally, you still get a lot of those, or some of those, but none of them. Oh, really? No, you don't get anywhere near the amount of peristalt. Like, you just have to try and see what I mean. Like, you can drink a cup of coffee and kind of feel like it helps you go to the bathroom in the morning. If you do a coffee enema, like it fricking just cleans you out. Like, you feel squeaky clean from your fricking like esophagus all the way down through the large intestine. So then as soon as you pull the tube out, are you like rushing to the toilet? No, you're going to roll over your side and let it sit. No, you pull the tube out and you just kind of let it sit. And when you first do it, you kind of do feel like, oh, I need to go. And you kind of ignore that. And after about two minutes, that sensation goes away. And then you just lay there for a while. And do you do this on the floor of like your shower? Just like just lay on the floor of my bathroom on my right side. So I got a question for you, because you do a lot of, you try a lot of things on yourself. Like, your wife, has there ever been a time when your wife was like, I don't think you should inject that into your balls? Or you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, she's gotten concerned a few times. Things that I've done. Let me think of an example where I concerned her. Because I get a lot of just like fringe supplements and powders and stuff sent to my home. You know what? She's got to get scared. She was on board with your whole sticky needles in your dick thing and trying to optimize that. She was a little concerned when I came back from the physician and my dick looked like it got run over by a semi truck. Oh, shit. Was it like black and blue and like purple? For real? Like, yeah. Oh, Jesus. And I was a little bit concerned, too. I'm like, dude, I'm not going to do that. I should hope so. Naturally. Yeah. And I called the stem cell therapist or not the therapist, like the person who actually is well versed in stem cell injections into your dick. And they said that was normal. Anytime you inject anything, it's going to get black and blue and purple. And the needles just cause a little bit of capitalization. Was it worth it? The flow. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got a lot of traction from that, right? I did. I got you. The problem with that was. The problem with that was, Joe Rogan, I remember. No. It was like a little bit later than that, right? Oh, she haven't really talked to person since then. What was that experience like? I know. I want to know. Two things. First of all, I did the stem cell injections into my dick because Men's Health Magazine had me do a whole bunch of stuff. They had me do, like, Ayurvedic practices, like learning reverse orgasm and not ejaculating for a month and a half. They had me doing, like, gas station dick pills, which turned out to be, like, still denifil and ephedra, and not all the crazy fringe. So it's actually Viagra and ephedra. Chinese herbs. Yeah. We went a month and a half without orgasm? Yeah. Well, no. I didn't go a month and a half without orgasm. I went a month and a half with the no ejaculation technique, which doesn't mean you're not orgasm. OK. Oh, I'll teach that. If you learn, it's called the draw. If you learn, you can, like, as you're about to orgasm, you reach down, you place a lot of pressure on your perineum, and you breathe. You have to practice this breathwork beforehand. The book, The Multi-Orgasmic Male, is a really good book to teach. Can't wait. So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You draw it back in, and you still orgasm, but you don't actually ejaculate. But you push up, so you prevent it from coming out. Right. And you still, I mean, don't get me wrong. Where does it go? Like, it's still kind of, kind of. That's what I want to know. Comes out your nose. It's like on your eyes. It's like on your eyes. Yeah. And that's it. You do have a great deal of energy afterwards, but it's almost, it's almost like a frustrating energy. Like, you're almost, you're like, you're incomplete. We used to call that blue balls when we were in high school. Exactly. We're forcibly giving yourself blue balls. Like that feeling of taking a pre-workout supplement, but then not getting a chance to hit the gym and work out, so you're sitting at your desk just like shaking. It's like that. Only you would chase that feeling, you know what I'm saying? He's teaching it. I know. Sorry. And only this asshole would want to do it over here. As soon as we're done with the podcast, so you block it, and it stops everything from coming out. You press with two fingers in the perineum between your asshole and your neck. I know where that is. Yeah, OK. He's familiar. Appreciate it. I don't know. Make sure Sal knows where to put the coffee enema tube. And then the draw is basically this process of taking air and imagine your breath and imagining it traveling up your front side over your head and then back over your back side, just basically drawing the energy they called the jing or the chi energy out of that area up through your body. So you're basically recirculating the energy, which sounds kind of woo. But when you concentrate on it, what happens is you feel as though you're pulling all that energy out of your crotch and up into the rest of your body. And it hits your brain and you're still orgasm. So it's actually a very interesting feeling, but you don't actually ejaculate. And it's not as strong as an orgasm as you would get if you're actually ejaculating. So now when you do this for it because you're, I know when you're pressing on the perineum, you're blocking the ability of the ejaculate from coming out. And so it's still in your system. And you do this for a month. You're definitely getting it before it kind of like goes into the vas deferens and before it's like a full on ejaculate. So this is right before orgasm. This is right before. And then if you do this for a month and a half, when you finally open the floodgates, when you finally open the floodgates, that's a, that's interesting. It's definitely a condom filling strategy. Oh my God. The floodgates. So having this knowledge now, you must think that these porn stars kind of were onto this probably a long time ago. They probably practiced some of these techniques too. Right, well, I mean, there's all sorts of techniques. I have another friend named Jordan Gray. He's like a relationship therapist and a sex coach. He has all these techniques where I've been, he's in like a mastermind group with me. So we've talked before at functions that we've been at and he's taught me how to do like the wet towel technique where you get a bone or anything, the wet towel on your bone and you just practice with it with a bigger and bigger towel. Cockpush ups. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All these, all these different strategies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one that's very common is, is you'll just, you know, masturbate and then stop and then masturbate and then stop and get yourself to the point where you can just get very, very close to the edge. There's a lot of strategies in that book, that multi-orgasmic mail book is probably one of the better ones to learn some of those techniques. But anyway, some men's helped magazine how we tried that, the dick pills, they had me do like a platelet-rich plasma injection. They had me do like the digital penis pump that one of my balls got stuck inside once. Oh no. Because I thought, well, it's digital so I could probably go hands-free and just work on my computer. Well, I kind of cropped the penis pump up against the edge of my desk. So you just got, you're like this. And so I'm typing, yes, and I'm typing and you know, there's like a rubber gasket and you lube up yourself and then you put it in there and it adjusts to a certain millimeter mercury. So it's like 30 millimeters of mercury which is actually pretty hefty. So it's stretching my dick out to like 12 inches. Like it's pretty, it's kind of a weird, like alien-like. No exaggeration. Yeah. And never does the wife walk into the office and you go, what the fuck are you doing today? My kids walk in, my wife walk in. No. We're very old. Well, my kids know exactly what a penis pump is. Like I would rather be very open than be like that guy who's sneaking off to the, oh, what's that in your hand, dad? This daddy's giant ass coffee cup with the dashboard on it and coconut oil stains about a rubber gasket on the bottom. So anyways, and I'm sitting there typing and I'm sitting there typing and all of a sudden it's like, and my ball gets sucked in. I look down and it's just turning purple and blue like within like five seconds. So I just desperately start pulling and tugging and I rip it out of there. So lesson learned, don't go hands free on a digital penis pump. So they had me trying all this stuff but it culminated them wanting, like the big one they wanted me to do was like the stem cell injection. And they actually helped like, they helped pay for me to harvest the stem cells from the adipose tissue on my back which is a relatively expensive procedure and also the shipping of the stem cells, the storage of the stem cells, they grow them via an enzymatic process about eight grand. Yeah, so I thought, well, risks versus rewards, I can kind of get into this whole stem cell thing and study it up a little bit and all I have to do is take the potentially risky step of actually injecting some of these stem cells into my dick. So I did it and what happened with the story coming full circle was a reporter from Gizmodo read my article on men's health and she called me and she said, why did you do this? And I said, well, it helps guys with pironis or erectile dysfunction actually perform better. That's what most of the studies on it have been done but sometimes I think that if something would take you from not so good to good that it could take you from good to great. And the idea was we were gonna see if this would enhance your erections or your orgasms or your sexual performance. So I did it. And she said, well, did it get bigger? And I'm like, well, funny, you should ask. I think it did. It seems like it did. Check your messages. My wife has commented to that and when I looked in the mirror, kind of- Well, if wifey said so, it is. Because she's probably knows better than anybody, let's be honest. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'll do respect to our relationship and the sanctity of our bedroom or whatever. But yeah, I mean, like when we're having sex, she's like, you're bigger, like it feels great. So I tell the reporter this. And, you know, we finish up the interview and a couple of days later, the headlines on the Gizmodo article say, man attempts to make dick bigger via stem cell injection. And this French magazine picks it up. It's like, man with small dick. In fact, so all of a sudden, the guy with the small dick on the internet. Oh, that's like- And that's what happens with that story. It's like the game Telephone. You know, you hand it off. So then the Rogan podcast, you know, Joe and I, you know, we text back and forth about archery and fitness and health and stuff like that. And I thought we're gonna get on. We're gonna talk about maybe a couple of the hunts we've been on and shooting and, you know, went there and I shot the bow on his Techno hunt set up down there, which is like a 3D archery set up for indoors where you shoot at virtual animals. And we chatted about- That was like super fun. Was awesome. Chatted about, you know, working out and hunting. And then we get in there to podcast. And all of a sudden it turns in like a two hour dick fest talking about like- Right. But that was not the original plan. And honestly, I don't want to be that guy. I mean, frankly, if I'm some single playboy globetrotting, you know, and sticking my dick in anything that moves, I could get that stick being, you know, the dick stick really being that guy. But that's not what I'm interested in. That's not the reputation I want to build, but because I did that, it's like a- You sounded smart as you did that. People are very interested in that. And so that's now one of the reputations I have for better or worse is being like the dick hacker. Or as Aubrey Marcus calls it, the cock warlock. Cock warlock. But I'm really like, I'm not, people are like, is your wife just tired all the time? She goes just banging all day along with all these, you know, sex experiments you're doing. We have a pretty normal life. I mean, we have sex a couple of times a week and- That's funny. And then we don't have an open relationship. I'm not out there like walking into sororities to test out my stem cells, but I just not, yeah. So anyways though, it's interesting how that article kind of blew up and how far- I have a question I've wanted to ask you, because we've been to your place and we've hung out quite a few times and I know you have an incredible relationship with not only your wife, your kids, you guys have an incredible family. If you guys get into a fight, what is it about? Typically, and it's pretty rare that we get into a fight. Yeah, you seem like that. You guys are a great dynamic. Right, usually it is because I'm trying to think of the best way to explain this. I am used to being given a great deal of respect in the industry that I'm in. Like people look up to me and I have a lot of yes men around me who are like, oh Ben, that's so cool that you're doing this and you're doing that. Not a lot of people say, that's a stupid idea. You're an idiot, you shouldn't do that. Or not a lot of people kind of question what I do or give me a hard time or say you probably shouldn't be doing that. So occasionally, bash heads on that type of thing. That's good though. I feel as though I'm not getting a lot of respect. And sometimes I'm trying to think of an, I don't like to be vague. I like to think of an actual specific example. Right, I'm searching for your last argument or your fight, like what it was. That's what I'm going through my head. It was the last one, oh, I got home and we pride ourselves on really being good parents for the boys and when I leave town, I actually have them do, I write out a full sheet like here's the workouts you're gonna do today. This day you're gonna do the obstacle course, this day you're gonna go shoot the bow and I write out for them to remember little things I can check off. And if you check all this stuff off, you do your journaling, you do your meditation. What a brilliant idea. Do your cold hot each day so they do the sauna and the cold pool. And I write out these pretty elaborate sheets because I travel a lot and so it helps them. And when dad comes home, I get the pool. What a brilliant way to still be connected and fathering what you're gonna travel. You get to save up points for the Lego, shoot me photos of their gratitude journal, that kind of stuff. And I got home, this was two months ago after a big trip and Jess, I had lost the sheets and everything kind of fall into pieces. I'm like, boys, were you gratitude journaling? I could, and they kind of were squirming a little bit and I could see that a lot of things had kind of fallen to pieces while I was gone. And then my wife basically told me that more or less... It's okay, don't worry about it. No, it's okay, don't worry about it. But more like, Ben, you just don't understand how busy we got when you were gone, how many other things were going on. And I was just like, this is not hard to do. These are simple habits and simple routines. You make them automatic and I started to go off on a tire ride like I do with a client, right? I was trying to get to frickin' do your workout. And yeah, we bashed heads and then usually what I do is I go outside and I take some deep breaths. And this happens maybe once or twice a year that we get into an argument like we don't argue a lot. But typically it's about something like that where I just feel like, wait, somebody's not respecting something that I set up and almost like blowing off something that I find very important. Like that's the type of thing that we usually argue over. Now you seem a very self-aware and self-reflective person. You say you walk out right afterwards. What do you see in yourself that's not healthy or not good for you from that type of an argument? I do not wear my emotions on my sleeve and I tend to shove them down inside me. I'm a guy who can build up like bitterness and built in pent up emotions unless I express those. And so example, I've taken the Enneagram analysis and my type is a type three achiever. So it's a wonderful personality test. But one of the things that achievers tend to do is they can be very robotic and expressionless and emotionless in a lot of their business activities because it's all about achieving, achieving, achieving no matter what and just do this, do that. Yes or no sir, thank you ma'am. And we tend to not wear our emotions on our sleeves and stuff builds up and then if I don't express my emotions or say the way that I feel and that builds up over several months, I tend to have just like this explosion of rage where I let it all out. And I've realized that if I'm going, if I feel all that building up inside of me, that rage, I have to step away, right? Otherwise it'll be inside and get a punch through the wall and shout something. So if you walk out into the forest and I walk and walk and walk and breathe and just let it all out. Have you created any practices to help maybe prevent that build up? Working out. It feels a lot. Yeah, probably one of those. That's a pretty good form of catharsis honestly. Like for me, a good workout just lets me burn off all that energy and I grunt and I groan and I scream and it just get it all out. So I'm a big fan of working out for that. Besides your wife, who are you? Oh, go ahead. And then also date nights with my wife. So about once every two weeks, we go out on a date and we don't talk about the kids and we don't talk about business and we just share our feelings and our emotions. We're going through a book right now called The Seven, things called Seven Principles to Make a Marriage Work or The Seven Ways to Make a Marriage Work written by this guy in Seattle. A fascinating guy. He runs something called The Divorce Lab and couples walk in there and he can tell within two minutes to something like 90% accuracy how likely a couple is to separate. And it has this fantastic book. I think it's called The Seven Ways to Make a Marriage Work. My wife and I are going through that book where you just do certain exercises together like you'll sit at a date night and just talk about your entire childhood experience and your relationship with your mother and your relationship with your father and we'll cry and we'll share things we've never shared with each other. And that's a very good way to ensure that she is getting a release of my emotions and I'm getting a release of hers and we're not just passing like ships in the night or building up these pent up emotions that we then let out when we get into an argument. What do you think draws you and your wife together that draws all the way back to your childhood? Like was her childhood similar to yours or is it complete opposite and that's what makes you guys a great team? You know, she is very much... She's actually very much a yang to my yin I would say. She's a little bit more of like a tomboy, Montana rancher girl and we have very opposite personality. She's very type B, very disorganized, very unscheduled, very artistic, you know, she's dyslexic so she's not good at reading or writing like a lot of things that I'm good at, she's not good at, but she's amazing with creativity and cooking and arts and that was one of the reasons we quit homeschooling was she's not teacher, she hated school and I love school, right? And even though we grew up in similar environments like we both grew up in Idaho after she moved to Idaho from Montana and we had somewhat similar upbringings, you know, kind of like more like strict Christian homes that we grew up in and very traditional, you know, north Idaho. So your values are very similar but you're pretty good. Your values, very different personalities, exactly. So we balance each other out quite a bit. We were best friends for a couple of years before we got married in college. Oh, see, that's cool. It makes sense why the thing with the kids would happen though, too. Cause you say what she says about with reading and structure and stuff like that, why that would be something she would be like no big deal. Exactly, cause I like all schedule a tennis lesson for the kids like a month and a half out with this amazing tennis and I have everything planned and I'll get home and like, how was the tennis lesson? She's like, what tennis lesson? I went on Google calendar that it was all set up and you got the email reminder. She was like, oh, I didn't check my email yet. I'm like, what do you mean yet? And it's like, you know, six days ago was the last time she checked her email. I mean, you know, you look at her phone and it's got the 72 message notifications on it cause she hasn't looked at any of the messages. Like it's like that's like, I left you a voicemail. Oh, I didn't notice you call. You know, you could see she's got 12 unchecked voicemails on her phone. So yeah, I mean, we're completely opposite. Whereas me, there's a little red message on my phone or push notifications. Boom, it's out. I tried myself on zero inbox. Like, yeah. So yeah, we're, that's gotta be really good for you though. You know, it's gotta be really good for you because you got to know that about yourself that you can be so exterior that have a partner that kind of brings you back down. It very much, it very much keeps me grounded. And it also really helps me to have somebody who just laughs their ass off at me at home when I put on my blue light blockers and my sleeping mask and my binaural beats and my lavender or essential oil. And she just kind of, she's just laying there. Yeah, just following us. Have you found yourself, like, because you know that, you know she's so good for you for that, to like practicing like, okay, this would be a thing that I'd be really frustrated about, let's let it go. It's one time, have you found yourself having that conversation with yourself where you get kind of frustrated, you get mad and you're like, you know what, it's not that big of a deal. No. But I think, I think. That's honest. You know, I still struggle with it there. Yeah, I'm very much set in my ways. Like I'm just like a rigid scheduled, relatively type A person. You know, it's how I've built my life on a series of habits and routines and doing 20 squats when you go to the bathroom on the airplane, you know, all this stuff. And so I don't break out of that schedule as much as I understand people who don't live that way by being married to my wife for 14 years. You know, I really get that client who I work with, who I load up with all their workouts and their meal plan for four weeks and I spend, you know, four hours on a Saturday just getting them completely lined up and then I check up in with them the month later and they're like, yeah, I was traveling and it's a push up some Monday and here's my diet. And it's just like, you know, it's, you know, whatever peanuts and top ramen and, you know, normally my head would just fricking explode if I also didn't live with somebody who was like that. So it's helped me a lot to understand people who aren't as fricking like anal or retentive OCD as I am. What about the things that you- The people who won't do their coffee endless Wednesday. What about the things that you've seen expressed in your children? Have you seen like your personality traits, good and bad that you, within your kids? Oh yeah, that's the weird thing. Share that. I think that's cool. These guys talk about that with their kids all the time. I love that you're like my son, Taryn. You know, I would, when I was a kid, I was very, I was very kind of like distant, loopy, absent. I was like the absent minded professor, right? Just, I was smart, but I was just kind of out of it and really- In your own world. I didn't give a shit about people that much. You know, I just wanted a book and to wander around and people would tell me stuff and I'd be like, what? What did you just say? Like it could just cause I wasn't listening. My son Taryn is very much like that. I hate it. Cause I see, yeah, I see me in him when I tell him to do something. You know, whatever we're cooking dinner. And I'm like, can you go grab the olive oil? And then I'll look over there. He's reading Captain Underpants, you know? And I'm like, olive oil. He's like, what? Olive oil. Oh, okay. And for me to see that, like, you know, and a certain part of me is like, oh, that's cool. I have a little Ben who I can train to be a- A better Ben. A big Ben, a better, for me. And then at the same time, everything he does that annoys me about myself kind of, kind of irks me. Yeah, Taryn is very much like that river is a lot more, honestly, river's very, you know, he's type A, he's scheduled to do this. He's like, yes, river, go. You're like the person who I aspire to be. And then Taryn is just like, you know, he's a kid who's probably ain't grown up to be whatever an artist who paints abstract with oil or something like that. That's so great. Wow, wow. Are there some, what are some of the biggest things that your wife has taught you that you've been able to implement yourself? Cause you guys are so different. Mmm. I, really the biggest one is, is I in the whole like, you know, biohacking, supplement, bodybuilding, fitness, you know, industry, you're just used to, just from like a nutrition standpoint, you know, protein bars and you make your stir fry and your broccoli and chicken and rice. When I met her, she was like, she grew up in this household, this ranching farming household where when you want cinnamon rolls, you go and you make some sourdough bread and you make the frosting from scratch and you grab what you can out from the refrigerator and you go outside to the garden and harvest what you want. And when you, when you want to have meat, you got to go and find the sheep that needs to be killed and you kill the sheep and bring it in and you know, dress it and make a, I wasn't used to any of that stuff. You know, I grew up in the family that was taking baked pizzas and hamburgers and iceberg lettuce. And so I learned a lot from her just about, you know, what we might call like a West N.A. prices, just approached to diet or an ancestral nutrition approach. Like just living in a very simple ancestral way. That's one thing. Another thing I've learned from her is she's very fit. She'll drop into a Spartan race and just crush it or a trail run and absolutely crush it. But she trains maybe once a week. Really? Like a formal training session. She looks very fit. I remember when I met her, she's shredded. That's all she trains? She pushes wheelbarrows around and she. She's active all day. She gardens and she's. What a testament to the ghost and the chickens and it'll be, you know, zero degrees outside and look out the window. You know, when I'm inside podcasting and she's chopping wood in her coat, you know, outside with the wood pile. And there you go. You know, it's just, sometimes I get jealous. Sometimes it's like, oh, that's the life that I need to be leading. Yeah, but it's not, it's not like, you know, my calling is, you know, God made me good at writing. And so I'm good at hunched over being a hunch over computer inside and working on books and, you know, podcasting and speaking and, you know, doing some of the things that I do, but she's just a freaking workhorse. And I've, I guess I've seen that it really is true that you can build copious amounts of like pretty extreme ancestral fitness just by working all day long. Well, you're supposed to be fit. Not being so obsessed with getting to the gym. It's a constant work, man. And it's amazing what the technology has done now to where it's limiting us for that movement and how you see our bodies shaping and changing, man. That's crazy. I have, that's, I wish people could, well, they can look on your page and see a picture of what she looks like. She's very fit. She's very fit. She's got a freaking eight pack, right? Yeah, no, she's like, she's literally like 9% body fat. She looks like a, oh, just like a female competitor, like six weeks out of a show or so. Yeah, she's incredible. But also healthy though, because a lot of times the women get that lean, they don't have that, they don't look healthy, but she also, you guys all look very healthy. She's never missed a period since we've been married. Like, I mean, aside from when she's, you know, been pregnant, you know, there's been, sometimes when, you know, the hormones have kind of fluctuated a little bit. But yeah, for the most part, I mean, she's just like normal fertility, normal health, like not all the things you'd see with like an OCD, exercising, anorexia, nervosa, whatever, type of girl. So yeah, it's really interesting. You mentioned how you, you said God made you good at writing. And you mentioned being brought up in a very strict, I guess, Christian household. And I know you did a podcast or maybe a couple podcasts where you talked about your faith. I don't think that's very well known. Does that play a massive role in your life? How well received is it? Yeah, with your audience. It's pretty well received. Because when people are going on their, you know, 28th, ayahuasca trip. Yes, let's go here. Rent pursuit of six pack abs and, you know, trying out eight different diets and you know, even at this Paleo FX event, everybody's searching. Everybody's looking for the next thing that's gonna make them happy. You know, until you take care of that, that inner shriveled up neglected part of you, your soul, and we know that that's related to everything from love and life and relationships to belief in a higher power or at least a very intense sense of a purpose for your life, a story, like a pre-written story that you were born to live out versus this fatalistic notion that we're a bunch of pieces of flesh flying through a rock, you know, through space, trying to see who can have the most sex and make the most babies or who can survive the longest. You know, all that is, is it puts you on this never ending wheel just trying to find happiness, trying to find fulfillment when, until you actually connect with your soul and connect with a higher power and a purpose and a story for your life, I feel like especially in our industry, people are just gonna be constantly searching. And so, for me to know that, whatever, you know, I got hit by a car on my bike the other day and slammed my head into the pavement and, you know, a lot of bad stuff could happen. You know, I could have gone from being a super fit CEO of a company to just like a, you know, fricking laid out paraplegic with my neck broken. You know, I still know that no matter what happens, you know, I have that soul that you can't take away from me that I believe is gonna be around for eternity. It's really, I think why your audience receives it really well is because you don't, you're not a Bible thumper. You're not somebody like that. You don't press it on anybody else. Now, I wanna know how that if you have any conviction or struggle, because especially here this weekend, we're surrounded by the Iowasca fucking people nation. Yeah, without rolling people under the bus or names. And that was one of the things that, you know, because I grew up in a very similar home. We've talked a little bit about this. And so it took me a while to get okay with even having so many of those comments. In fact, I still find myself getting annoyed a little bit. We just got on, we did an interview just yesterday and, you know, first five minutes, Iowasca comes up and it's just kind of, I roll my eyes. I roll my eyes and I feel like these people are searching for something that doesn't require getting high or a drug for. And that's just because I believe I was raised with that. And so how do you deal with that? Cause I know you're around it a lot, you know? Plant-based medicines do bring you closer to God. They really do. Like I feel like they're there for a reason and I've been on Iowasca trips and some pretty intense DMT experience where I've been closer to God than I've ever been inside of a church or, you know, during holotropic breath work or any other form of non-plant medicine or non-chemically infused religious experiences. At the same time, I recognize that they, they are not, they're like a means to an end and they're not the end itself. And I think that a lot of these plant medicines from Iowasca to freaking weed, to Iboga, you name it, they were all placed on this planet for a purpose to allow us to sometimes open up and have a more intense religious experience or become closer to God. And I think that they can be used in that way to receive divine messages or to, you know, I'll fill up 10 pages of journaling with amazing ideas for my life and inspiration and purpose. But I never fool myself into thinking that those are gonna truly fulfill me, these plant medicines or these journeys or these escapes as much as they're just going to give me some clarity into my actual purpose and the actual story for my life or what God would have me to do. It's so unique though. I mean, I was raised the same way and like it went through a very, you know, was brought up with a very like Christian background and, you know, to have somebody, you know, go through those experiences was not, not was pretty much frowned upon. So how was that in terms of like, you know, I know you're very visible in your community and your church, like how do they receive that? I'm not very visible in my church because I'm out of town so much. Whoa. I mean, like you're like, hey man, joining us for church this week after being gone for 10 weeks, I see. Which is actually true. A lot of these events, these races, everything is just out of town and traveling on a Sunday. It is something that I really don't talk about that much when I'm at church because there really aren't a lot of like-minded people in my community who are into that. Right. There's, you know, it's still pretty rare in, you know, just a traditional American religious communities for the stuff to be embraced or accepted. I find a lot of people who do go to church, you know, they're now using things like marijuana at night to help them sleep but they kind of keep that hidden, right? They don't talk about it. Unless they know you also are one of those people. Right. So true. Who smokes the joint. The devil's lettuce. The devil's lettuce. Exactly. Yes, the devil's lettuce. And it really doesn't have a lot of mainstream acceptance. You know, there's a guy, a frickin' Jamie Wills out there on the lake behind us on the boat. And, you know, guys like him and Stephen Coller writing these books about how psilocybin can bring you into a more intense religious experience. And I have taken a gram or two of psilocybin and gone to church before it kind of tapped into that. Oh, wow. Dude, you gotta tell me what was that like? I mean, you, like the music feels like it's, you know, your senses are heightened, as you know, with psilocybin. So the music is sweeter and the spiritual experience that you have seems deeper but you feel like everybody else in the church needs to be on psilocybin for you to actually truly have that collective group religious experience that like Stephen Coller and Jamie Wills talk about and stealing fire. And I, like, it's not that way in my life. I don't have a group of people who I go and worship with and we're all on psilocybin. You probably, you know what? You probably are going to like a non-denominational, bro. You need to go to like a Pentecostal or something. I guess so. Cause maybe we'll get some psilocybin in the community wine or something like that. You know, the grape juice. Pass on to the snakes. So yeah, it's interesting. And I don't wanna give people the impression that you need plant medicine in order to have a religious experience or in order to have a deep relationship with God or for life purpose or anything like that. But I think that using that type of thing occasionally as a way to perhaps ask yourself that question, what is my purpose in life? And then you go on an ayahuasca trip or DMT experience and you have a journal with you and you're writing down your experience. And for me, it also involves specifically naming and recognizing that there is a God and that you're attempting to simply see what God has written for your life by going to that place. And for me, you know, any plant medicine experience has never been dark. It's never involved vomiting. It's never involved spirits. It's always just been extremely positive love and light field experience where I'm getting messages from God. I think it's important, you know, people understand. And this is, I mean, this is established by psychologists and I'm reading Carl Jung right now, I'm reading a lot of his works and we seem to need to worship something. Now this isn't a criticism. It's just seems to be something true about humans. And if it's not God, then it might be money. It might be science. It might be this state, you know, one of the first things that these totalitarian states do, like these like the terrible 20, you know, history of the 20th century with these communists and fascists and totalitarian states is one of the first things they do is they undermine the church and they in some cases make worshiping anything illegal. And as a result, people worship the state and that becomes their God. And we see what happens many times and in our modern Western societies is that people start to worship things like money or material objects or drugs or substances like ayahuasca or you'll see people saying things like, I don't hear people say as much, you know, well, God did this for me. I hear this a lot, the universe, the universe did this for me. Look what the universe did. You don't realize you're replacing the word God with the universe. Same thing. Yeah, or their crystals or whatever. And so we seem to have this desire, this need to believe in something bigger than ourselves. And if you try to fill that with something and here's the thing with it, have you heard of the term Christian atheist? I just learned this the other day and it sounds like that doesn't make any sense. I just learned this the other day. I guess you can't have a better name for that. Chasius. Yeah, Chasius. Here's the thing. Some of these practices have lasted for a long time because there's a lot of wisdom in them. And what a lot of atheists are doing now is they're starting to follow the beliefs and structures of the Judeo-Christian religions because they see how effective it is and how much it works without necessarily believing in God. So they say, oh, these are good practices and so they're calling themselves Christian atheists. So yeah, if you don't, that spiritual side, that finding meaning side, I don't think you can find it from material things. And I think if you constantly are looking for that fulfillment, it's a bottomless hole that you'll never fill. And this is where you'll see, this is, you see this with people with all the money in the world and they seem to have everything going for them and they're just, they're eternally depressed and sad and life has no meaning. And so, you know, a lot of times people, I've asked in the past, the very intelligent people and scientists, how do you rectify your belief in this mythical, you know, or this supernatural power with your understanding of hard science and some of the best explanations I've gotten is, well, it gives me a meaning that, you know, nothing else gives me. Certainly people make an argument for quantum physics for the movement of proton particles for, there's a book called Proving God, which they use quantum physics to attempt to prove God. I really don't think science can necessarily prove. It's the wrong tool. It's not a tool that can do that. I don't think you can prove. I mean, it would be like, I mean, I can't even think of an analogy. I love the way that Paul simplified it. I think it's just, you know, if you were to go down that rabbit hole and you eventually still have to ask, well, what made that? You know, eventually you can keep going, going, going, going, going, and eventually you still got to say, well, what made that? What made the very first particle that caused the Big Bang? Right. Exactly. Back when the Big Bang. I mean, you can watch and figure out its watchmaking. So yeah, exactly. I think that's such a great, it's very simple. Some people say the same thing about God. They'll say like, well, in the beginning was God, but what made God? And that's where you get to the point where, and I'm totally comfortable saying this. I'm just like, I don't know. Okay. I don't know. But all I know is that my life is a lot happier and meaningful and more purposeful and that all these blue zones display this, this relationship with a higher power. And there's this built-in human story to where we almost have this craving or this need for this puppeteer in the background, like writing these stories and running this amazing journey for our lives. And it's almost like a more hopeful way. You'd think it'd be fatalistic, right? Like, oh, this is my purpose I was born with and I can't change, but it's actually an amazing way to live once you recognize that. One of the greatest, one of the greatest. Back up to the blue zone connections. I didn't know there was one with... Oh, people who believe in God live longer. That's a fact. It's like the Japanese purpose, the ikigai, they call it. And it's also something you see in all these blue zones, a belief in a higher power or a greater story that's written for your life or some form of a religion, it's consistent across. All the blue zones. Oh, wow. People who believe in God are watching them live longer. Well, you've talked about the blue zones several times on our show, but not with the correlated with that they've had. Well, you know why? They don't really talk about that as much as their eating habits and activity and all that stuff because they tend to... Which I find funny because in my opinion, I think that is far more important than all the other things we've talked about. I think they discredit it to a certain extent, it's also related though. I mean, what's religion associated with? It's associated with fasting, with certain dietary principles, with certain lifestyle principles, community, stories. Which is why I think it's more important. Degree of emphasis placed on relationships and love. But that's not the way they say it. What they say is, oh, what they have in common is that they have community or that they have it. They have lots of close friends, but they don't say, oh, it's because they're spiritual or religious. They cut that part out, they discredit it quite a bit. But that's actually, that's the driving force. One of the greatest, and look, I'm agnostic, I'm not particularly religious, but I used to be an atheist, but I'll tell you what, I mean, you cannot deny this. One of the greatest gifts that the, in particular the Judeo-Christian religion has brought mankind, and I'll argue this with anybody all day long, is the belief in the, the sanctity of the individual, that each individual is special, made in what they would say in God's image, and has inalienable rights or liberties or whatever you wanna call them. This is a radical notion. This is a crazy notion. When you get to understand, before that became a thing, like kings and queens and emperors were gods, and there were people who were below you, and you were not equal. Like, you're a peasant, like, no, you do what I tell you, or we'll kill you, and nobody bad-ed an eye, not even the peasants. Many of them thought, yeah, this is the case. And so then you had this, all of a sudden you have this religion saying, no, everybody is special, even the most cripple, the most sick, the sinner, and the king, and the poor, and the rich, you're all under, you're all the same under the eyes of God. And so this created this mentality that brought forth Western civilization, which has brought more equality, more wealth, more, I mean, science, science, a lot of the renaissance was, a lot of that was funded by the church, and of course they had their separation at one point they fought, and that's more of a power struggle, but I mean, that's what gave us the beliefs that we have now about people, because that is radically not a normal thing. The normal state of man is squalor, poverty, it is tyranny, it is if you're stronger, you're bigger and you have more power, you control other people and you take from them, and this was totally acceptable, and this is just how things were, and it flipped it on its head, and that would not have happened had you not had people who believed that this came from a higher power, because there's nobody with, who the hell with power and money would have said, just voluntarily, hey, you know what, everybody's equal actually, those peasants down there, they deserve to be treated. Nobody would have given that up, but that came from a higher power, so believe what you will, you don't have to be religious, but give it its credit, without that we would not have free societies, plain and simple, it just wouldn't, it just 100% came from that, so I have a very deep respect for, even though I don't consider myself a religious individual, you know, when I see some of these things, I'm like, hey, you know, it's fucking ancient wisdom, and if you try to throw it away because you think, oh, we're modern and science has got all the answers now, I think you're wrong, and in fact, I see a lot of danger with that, because science that is unchecked by, you know, by morality is science fiction, it's the fucking crazy scary shit, it's the people doing things just because they think they can, and nobody's asking if they should. So Ben, I know you have a healthy moral compass, what scares you about our future? Let's address the elephant in the room, we're down here for Paleo FX in Austin, people are rushing around, as we know, everybody's asking around, where can I try ayahuasca, the ketogenic diet and CBD oil, and all these things are super, super duper trendy, open relationships are another big one that people are pursuing now in terms of, you know, just wanting to go out and try all of these things that folks feel are going to bring them ultimate fulfillment in life, completion. And the problem is, you know, a lot of this stuff winds up simply creating a very materialistic culture, very commercialized culture, and a culture that doesn't have quite the stability that we get from, you know, I know Chris, what's his name, who wrote the Sex at Dawn book, would flip over this, but I mean, this idea that there is, you know, a certain amount of social stability that can be had through monogamous relationships and a family that's built upon a strong sense of legacy and culture and tradition and husbands and wives who are together for long periods of time, you know, kids who follow the ancestral diet of their parents and their parents, and that stands in stark contrast to a bunch of people, like shuffling around like bumblebees trying 18 different kinds of diets, because there is no, you know, tradition or sense of meaning or anything else in their lives when it comes to actual completion. So I think, you know, what we're looking at right now in fitness and nutrition is a lot of people who are unfulfilled and who are searching, and so we just see new things popping up over and over and over again, this incessant, you know, like I talked about earlier, it's like a treadmill, you know, like one of those elaborate wheels where people are just going, going, going and searching with no meaning. So that's what I think we really risk is just, you know, a very kind of like weak culture who's always looking after the next new thing, the next shiny penny instead of having legacy and tradition and ancestry and stability in their lives. Yeah, I would agree, I would agree 100%. The open relationship, you know, trend, and it's not really a trend, I mean, it's come and gone quite a few times in our culture, I know in the 60s and 70s, there was a strong push in the counterculture in that direction. And I always stand by this, you know, people should be able to live however they wish, as long as they don't hurt anybody, you own your body, and if you want to do that, that's great, but when people push it and promote it as, this is what real love is. A better way of living. This is a better way. Here's something right there. Yeah, more evolved, some people use it. No, listen, are you going to have to sacrifice expediency and, you know, quenching your, you know, immediate desires? Are you gonna have to sacrifice some of that by being with one person and committing yourself? Well, yeah, but the same way I commit, I have to sacrifice the, you know, the sweet taste of that cake that's right in front of me for better overall health and wellness. And it's the same thing, you know, building that life with that person, and working and sacrificing together, there's nothing more fulfilling. I can't, it's the difference between sex and making love. It really is. And it's nothing wrong with having sex, if that's what you want to do, but if you're seeking the fulfillment that you can only get from making love through sex, you'll be seeking forever, and you'll be having a lot of sex, and you'll be able to a lot of things and be taking a lot of drugs to try to get that feeling, but you're gonna end up in a bad situation. Most of the time, maybe somebody can do it out there. Bottle full of bub, I'm into having sex, I'm out into making love. Oh, shit. Laying it down. Yeah. You should have been V-Boxing yesterday. My bad. Anyway, that was my rant about that. Yeah. Wow. Well, I gotta wrap up somewhat soon, fellas. No problem, brother. But I should comment, Doug, and then you've been kind of quiet during this podcast, but we gotta get you one of those anti-radiation pads so you can protect your balls, dude. Sitting on your lap for the past hour and a half, I've been very concerned about. He put it down. He put the laptop down. That's future children. Do you know what's funny is I always, when I'm driving, I catch myself doing this and I take the fuck out. I always travel with these things called Hera pads. They're like anti-radiation pads that you set your laptop on and you just put it anywhere, like on an airplane on your lap or wherever. Yeah. I'm hoping for the opposite effect. I don't know about you, but I read a lot of comic books when I was a kid and in comic books, radiation made people fucking awesome. That's true. So I'm thinking I'm gonna have super hero balls. Don Big, Spider-Web. Spider-Spider-Man dick. Yeah. Just like big, green, glowing, hairy balls. Yeah. Well, Ben, as always, fucking great time, man. You're one of our favorite people. Yeah, that's nice for sure. Love seeing you, dude. Love seeing you, man. Appreciate it. Amazing, amazing guys. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.