 22. Welcome to the world according to Wikipedia. The podcast that explores the weird, wonderful and baffling world of Wikipedia, the people who write it and what makes them tick with me for Nula. And me, Rebecca. And in this episode, we are live at Wikimania 2022, which is very exciting. So yay. And we have a guest. We do, we do. Derek, do you want to introduce yourself? Hi, I'm Derek Crochet. I run the Irish for Twitter account and I wrote the book Motherfuck with Dispatches of Not-So-Dead Language and I used to present the Motherfuck the podcast on Head Stuff, podcast network for former stable mates with the world according to Wikimedia. So I'm very delighted to be here. And an old hand, I believe, at live streams when you had Patreon and other things. So... Yes. Yeah, well, so I'm not sure if I'm completely used to it. I think you're still learning. It's one of those things that takes a moment to learn and it's a long, long time to master. So this is a little bit different from our usual podcast. We're going to mix up the format a little bit because we have Derek with us for the entire show, rather than me going off and, you know, having a Zoom huddle with one Wikimedean of my choice. And then I deliver the interview back to Nula. Not too long. Not too short. Just right. Like a Goldilocks interview. So it's a little bit different. So we're mixing it up. So if you have any questions for Derek, some of you who attended Celtic Knot in 2020 might be familiar with Muna's work already. But equally, if you have any questions for us about the podcast or about podcasting in general, do add them to the chat. I'm also keeping an eye on the etherpad as well. And I'm attempting also to keep another eye, an additional eye on our time to make sure that we don't we don't rush ourselves or go too far over. And this is, as I said, our very first live episode. So a little bit of a learning curve for both myself and for Nula, a little bit of experimentation, but we're very excited to be part of Wikimedia. And also, as we said, our Irish Twitter celebrity, Derek, in the room as well. So do you have your questions? Oh, yes. Well, it's your fault we have a podcast. So we have to make you work for it at some point. Yes, way back in the annals of time, Derek said to Rebecca, you should do a podcast and and then she wrote me in. So, yeah. Yes, it's a it's a dangerous conversation that when people meet up and it starts suggesting podcast ideas to each other and it opens up opens a terrifying trap door. But I did think and I'm still I'm still glad to think so. That I am I I thought that something the idea of Wikipedia is a scalable in addition to having the community of Wikimedia, Wikimedia's around the world and people who are curious about getting into it and having having that as a first step for people want to try that as well as the fact that Wikipedia is ultimately about everything. I mean, is it nothing is off topic in the conversation with the media, as we've seen and very true. And, yeah, Jan, our previous guest, Jan and Ali has just in the tech and the chat and said he did a session earlier today about podcasting and he did a lightning talk specifically about podcasting in your own language as well. So we keep on which is the podcast that he does. So it doesn't, you know, much like with Wikipedia, English does not have to dominate all times. And I'm delighted that I've been able to talk to lots of people with whom the projects that they engage with or the work that they do isn't just about the English language. And of course, you know, you've always had an interest, Derek, in in the Irish language. Yes, especially so. And also, I mean, when I started to podcast about the Irish language, I mean, there was obviously there's a there's a wealth broadcasting in Irish and which is accessible for people with the high standard of Irish, which is which is great. And there should be community radio for Irish speaking communities as well as things for learners. But there's also I guess I was aware that something like the Irish language should just so many things like technology, like law, like. Like kind of like literature and and and people's names, baby names. There's so many things that can be so I thought that having Irish language as the central theme of a general interest show, it became a keyhole through which you saw the world. And that's kind of shows I like, like, like reply all I meant to say, but it's similar to architecture or technology. And they found it basically, you could do a podcast or everything when you're your central theme is a keyhole, which you can see the world. And that's that's how I took the Irish language approach for mother before pretty well, as I was very happy with the positive response and the very next things said and unfortunately gave me the bad habit of telling other people that you definitely start from podcasts. But I will say from my point of view, because I'm not involved in Wikipedia, I am a novice and not even a novice. I think I've edited a few lists, like I've maybe put commas and things like that in what I found very interesting about Wikipedia about this particular podcast is I've learned so much about the world through like through the interviews that Rebecca is doing with people with the with the contributors to Wikipedia around the world, which I find particularly fascinating. Like there is every every person that she's interviewed has been excellent. Say hi to have a cameo. Hey, let's hurry and airy. Yes, they're going back. Sorry about that. Apologies. Terrible drop sheet. But yes, so I've just been I've been glued to a world according according to the media since it started. I just think it's a formal idea. I cover some of the fascinating things which I have never thought about. Wikipedia is the classic example of something that's what people take for granted. People refer to it every day and just just assume it's there and don't realize the amount of of worker bees going on background. And it's fascinating to find out more about it like with parenting. It's a lot of frantic swan legs going on in the background. OK, it's a little bit. No problem at all. We could. Well, we'll do two seconds. In the meantime, we could discuss things. This is this is what live episodes are all about. So, yes, from my point of view, like I've I've enjoyed sort of speaking on from a dark was saying like things like the medical editing of Wikipedia, particularly around the early days of COVID-19. That was fascinating to me because it didn't even occur to me until we had the interview that there would be particular things that we needed that were needed care that needs to be taken over making sure that everything that's on Wikipedia is correct and not prone to misinformation. So that was, yeah, I learned so much and I trust Wikipedia a lot more to be honest with you now. But I know exactly how much care and attention goes into it. I think when you've added a few pages, you realize how scrupulous the kind of volunteer on community actually is about of making sure that there is no misinformation. That's it. Yeah, it could be a little disheartening. Kind of when you believe that, yes, I believe that's correct. I prefer to source and it's immediately shut down. But that's part of the experience for the fun. And I was I didn't consider this to be misinformation. But yes, I didn't realize the Irish time is an unreliable source, but that's opening up. Highly available, yeah, that's the kind of worms right there. That's some papers and stuff. And obviously if there's, yes, something might be a respectable publication, but it might be an opinion column or something like that. Or, you know, and these are things you learn as you go along. Well, that's a very good, beautiful segue. It's always good when you point out a segue, isn't it? Makes it even better. For we always have a section on our podcast about rules. And of course, most Wikipedians know technically there are no rules. We have our five pillars. Yes, lots of guidelines and policies and writing guides and style guides and everything else. And what I'd like to if there's anybody in the chat that has a particular one that is their favorite, one that they think is particularly obtuse or particularly funny or particularly useful. You know, one of my favorites is WP not, which is, you know, what Wikipedia is not. And we've covered that before. So it's not a new source. It's not a manual. It's not a it's not trying to be anything other than an encyclopedia. So if anybody wants to add one, please do. I did task poor old directed time to look up his favorite one. But I think that's an interesting one. Like thinking about we think about those acronyms like the WP not and all those GNG for, you know, good notability guidelines and things like that. But there's nuance in all of them, like they're not. And that's why there are guidelines and not strict rules, because there's they're always opened interpretation and there's always a case to be made. So even if you have an opinion piece from Irish Times, perhaps if you're writing about that particular person and their particular stance on something, then if they have a Wikipedia article, perhaps it should be added. So there's always a little bit of wiggle room there. Have there been any other things? So you've started editing. I think I'm going to start out and work with me some time back. And initially, I found that the that the actual app, the Bayja app on the on Android phone was really good in terms of being as suggesting that it's that required captions and photographs and tagging and things of fashion. And I found I was like an easy way of slightly more productive sense of of being on the bus than maybe playing Angry Birds and stuff like that. And you picked out a certain set of satisfaction. Then after feeling yes, they can be able to have made a thousand dollars so that I could stick my toe into trying to add an paragraph to an article or something like that, and it would have gone from there. And I thought, yes, there's there are certain gaps in certain things which I felt I had a reasonable knowledge of and having a subscription to certain certain newspapers and the Irish Newspaper Archive and the British Newspaper Archive, which I used for in my research, my writing, I was in a position to actually look at things which maybe had. Where were those gaps before where you might be able to find an actual article from the time or a reference to me that was missing? I was able to add references for citations for needed and things of that. And yes, there was that section before going on to actually doing something as drastic as starting my own article and that was an adventure. And you know, people are supportive. People did leave a little bubble of strawberries and things of that in my in my replies, which I wasn't expecting. I don't know. Yeah, I was still learning the etiquette. Don't tamp out anyone. Don't say I was still learning the etiquette of kind of how Wikimedians refer to each other as compared to, say, social media or some other way. But people have people to make out of mind. So that was a learning experience, too. There's a culture of thanking people and technology and constructive criticism and things of that, which is wonderful. That is one of the things that I sorry, just good. Like one of the things I really like about Wikipedia is that there are these little things that you give to people, you know, the the cute the cute side of Wikipedia. Like as you said, the bowl of strawberries or things like that, you know, like that that's nice, you know, acknowledgement. They're good. It has been shown that even the simple thank button does encourage people to stick around because they a bit like, you know, I suppose having a Twitter or a Twitch stream or whatever it is that you feel perhaps very few people are paying attention to you. Actually, somebody going and taking the time to say, thank you for doing a particular thing, especially if it's on a low, you know, kind of a low traffic article, you know, an Irish backwater. I've been surprised at the things that I've been thanked for over the years. Yeah, it does. And it's especially if it could be possible without that kind of culture of niceness, you know, I find the only time you interact with anybody would be somebody correcting or reversing the kind of a change you made. And that would be very disturbing. So it's nice to actually get that, you know, somebody noticing that you're new and kind of suggesting things and and then this as well as the of the Wickey Ireland project and things like that, seeing there's a list of stubs that just need to be fixed. And that's somebody that's a great gateway in for someone who is not sure where to start. And a good shout out to the fellow editors of Wikipedia Ireland, the Wickey project and they're doing a huge amount of work with that three or four of them rewriting all they're going through all of the articles tagged as being related to Ireland and they're rewriting them to make sure that that stub start C upwards is correct. We've had two really interesting suggestions in the chat. So from Jan, it was like systematic bias is a good reminder and even better on language versions, strongly connected to one country. So yeah, that there are biases, you know, that appear in literature that that are then mirrored. So a lot of the criticism that Wikipedia gets is it's not necessarily inherent to Wikipedia. It's reflecting the world back onto itself and to remind ourselves of that. It's only so much fixing we can do with what material we have. But yeah, don't template anyone. So it's I think it's like the acronym thing of like barraging a brand new editor with a load of acronyms, a load of templates, a load of basically, you know, I suppose jargon for one to a better word, which is just outputting. It's not friendly. It's not welcoming that really it's that humanity piece that we've been talking about. That's really important. Yeah. So it's a yeah. And I think when I first thought that there was that that there was a gap in the market for a Wikipedia podcast, probably was when Claire Murray came on to the show. I was the first time one of what we've done several. A number of the we had done a number of Wikipedia adjacent episodes. But that was Claire's one about Vika page was the first one. And that was the controversial V. Yes, indeed. Otherwise, there are highly controversial V in the Irish languages. It's it's strange how all these kind of running gags turned up in the podcast and people can still kind of repeat them. But then they obviously they they told me between letter V and Peg and things like that we found. It's because there's a whole world of online people who don't realize that these things are are a part of Irish internet humor. But but yes, the Vika page was I think because I was doing a live show in London and Claire was going to be there. And she basically said, you know, you should definitely do an episode in this night and really given Vika page any thought up to that point. And I didn't realize there's this whole that there's so much to it, which I hadn't considered before. And the actual and the idea that yes, Wikipedia is the first place people go for things and having an actual corpus of Irish language content. There is so important for people who are, you know, if you want to look up something about climate change in Irish, you should be able to go to a cloud change page and on the page and it should be there. And that's why it's so important that it's supported and it's it's brought to attention that there are people who I mean, for four Irish speakers online, you want to, you know, help in a positive way. And that's something that anyone can do or anyone anyone that's but what's my Irish can do for context on that. At this point, when we had that conversation with Claire, you'd written a book about coming back to Irish. You'd started a podcast about, I suppose, you know, living through Irish or having access to Irish. It was only then that you were like, hmm, I'm not in psychopedia. That is that is also perhaps a useful thing. Yes. And it's I mean, it's something that was that I was surprised at how I guess I was surprised at how little how it wasn't being as widely championed or. I'm not compared to this. But I mean, there's a certain amount of Irish language publications which are and people people do know each other to into a bit. There's only a few degrees separation. But I just thought that those if if more people knew about this, more people participated in it. And I believe that maybe that there has been a little a little bump. I'm not sure how measurable these things are. But I'd like to think there's been a little bump. I was great after that a few months after maybe in the year or so to have Gabriel Beach a month. Yes. So this is a plug for the archives of Mother Folklore. So for those who don't know, Gabriel Beach, him, he was one of the founders or seen as the founder. Yes, I was arguably the founder of Pick A Page. And he did it. Like me, this one is a ridiculously accomplished people and like some of the people who are that brilliant, he's enragingly modest, very good. He is smart. He is the fact that for the crack he creates is going to be Irish language Wikipedia while he was a teenager in school, I'm waiting for his man to come home or something just messing around the computer. And that's basically and that's it all emerged from there. And so it's and he's a doctor now as well. So as everything else, he's worked on the Irish language kind of content in Duolingo as well as being as well as fighting COVID and doing all those things. So to show you Mark woman and it was it was great to be able to bring more people's attention to that. I suppose that it was that at least some somebody starts these things that somebody takes the first step and and I'll take them to the community and join in amazing things can happen. So it's I mean, it's because I think and I suppose I was inevitably going to compare Pick A Page to other minority languages, European minority languages to see if I mean without without wanting to get into it and to try comparisons of which ones bigger or things like that. But it is I thought I've given how I mean how I in some ways people like a lot of people in speaking other minority languages would consider Irish to be a role model in terms of how widely spoken it is and in Ireland how well supported it is by the state. But then I still found there was some I surprised at which minority languages had larger kind of bodies of articles in Wikipedia. And I think Bretton was in France was was was much bigger than expected, considering that it would be if I understand it feels quite imperiled or the Russian speakers consider it to be in the interstate parallel. I don't think there's any I don't believe there's any compulsion to teach Bretton schools to the same extent there isn't like an Irish or doesn't have that. So I thought so it was interesting to see that how I think of the comparison. Of course, our interpreters bless them are coming up against the phenomenon of Irish people talking very fast. And yeah, we apologize for that whole heartedly. It's one of the things that's happened to me at every single I think international Wikipedia account conference that I've attended is that it usually takes me about a day to slow down and stop using quite as many Irish idioms and terms of phrase that just tend to the rest of the world are a little bit baffling. So thank you so much for that reminder. I appreciate that. It's interesting when you talk about because one of the reasons that obviously we brought you in for the Celtic not conference in 2020 and the Bretton community have been an active active contributors to that since the beginning of it in Edinburgh in 2017. And you were reflecting kind of on perhaps kind of the and you kind of alluded to it there, like the politics of language and how, you know, some languages do definitely feel like they are as this happened all around the world where they have been actively suppressed or kind of benignly neglected, probably in the in the nicer, in the nicer ways and that, you know, the power of Wikipedia's for people who are active within those languages to kind of circumvent or, you know, kind of, I suppose, move away from the usual systems of power that meant that languages got got priority or got resources or whatever it is. And do you think that even in a context like Ireland, that it's still very important to have that there? Yeah, I think, I mean, it is and it is interesting how so I'm going to talk about very slowly and it is, I suppose, certain minority languages are maybe adjacent to one very large language. And then often it seems sometimes that a minority language is adjacent to two or more languages and maybe has a better chance of survival because it's not being pressed in the same direction. I think because you've got a Basque region of France and the Basque region of Spain, it's not the Basque language isn't as it doesn't doesn't have a single point of threat, which is pushing it. Whereas if you consider maybe because in the peril of the Irish language is that everybody speaks Irish also speaks English and if people are struggling with their Irish or if one person's Irish is better than the others, there's a the danger is they will fall back into English speaking English instead. Paralyzed that may not necessarily be the case with certain other minority languages like the one in Luxembourg, Luxembourgish and things like that where you might find to see it has the advantage of being something unifying and you might find there's there are certain certain languages which have that advantage and then there's certain languages which have a relationship to stage like the Flemish and where it maybe it gives our speakers have a book speaking the language gives you access to a certain certain certain professionals. Our friend of mine in Belgium was talking about how he recently applied for a mortgage in the Flemish bank and he does not already sign. It did not, it did not entertain his his needs. Requirement for English, yeah. I mean, he's in a different country. There's no need, you know. So that was the idea we were very far from having an all Irish language bank in Ireland. Yeah, and I think that what it's interesting it surprises some international people because a lot of international people when they think that Irish has or Ireland has its own language then of course and that's the the lingua franca and that's that's the that's the premise of a very famous film that a lot of Irish students now have to study, which is the premise of which is that you know somebody who wants to emigrate to Ireland learns Irish to then move here and then discovers that nobody actually speaks it until he bumps into somebody in a and I will find the link to Wikipedia article to be to the movie. You mean is Adam. You mean is Adam dumb. That's it, which is my name is you mean and he discovers somebody. Some people will recognize some of the actors that then appear from a lot of channel four and other and other items. And I was interested. I do wonder though, actually, just to come in on that one, I do wonder if he'd have the same reaction now. Because there are a lot more people, particularly young people speaking Irish out and about. If you know what I mean, it's not like when that film was made, there wasn't the kind of the the resurgence in the language, so to speak. But I do think that was at the cusp of it. Yeah. And I think that it's having T.G. Gara and more Irish-language broadcasting and those kind of resources and has meant that there there is a resurgence now. If you think about for for young people who've grown up and have never known a world prior to T.G. Gara and and those kinds of things, it's it was a very different learning Irish was a very different experience in the in the 1980s and even the early 90s. And and it is much more welcome now. Yes, I do believe if there was a you mean to was it, you fast mean furious or as some sort of you mean sequel? Yes, he would find some Irish speakers. He would stumble upon a public or something along those lines. Yeah. Or just impact those. Yeah, for some of us, T.G. Gara is the so T.G. For as it would would be is the Irish-language television channel here in Ireland, which was only launched in the 1990s by our man who is our current president. But there's also Radio Nalifo, which is a local Dublin radio station, which is kind of somewhat in contrast to Radio Noguelta, which is the state Irish language broadcaster, which is probably seen as a little bit more serious. Whereas Radio Nalifo has, you know, it's all about contemporary music and contemporary culture. So it's really about that kind of living through Irish. And what's nice, some of the new articles that I've seen created on the campaign have been around things like that. So around advocacy groups like Mishnok talking about kind of the state of Irish, kind of in very contemporary terms, opposed to this feeling that you always have to write about the language in kind of very serious heritage, historical type terms, which is, you know, all very worthy and important. One thing that I was interested, Derek, when you were saying that you started, you started kind of edging Wikipedia because you had, you know, you were researching and you were thinking about writing your next book. And has editing Wikipedia and kind of that kind of workflow or that sort of state of mind changed how you approach writing? Has it has it made it easier, harder? I think it's it's probably I'd like to think it's got a race. Maybe has maybe got conscious of my standards in some regards. And if this isn't good enough for Wikipedia, why should we writing anywhere else? Yes, which is probably maybe no harm. I think it's it's I think it does. Edging Wikipedia does give you a little discipline and you can, particularly with certain topics, the kind of stuff that I tend to find myself writing about, you get corrected quite very quickly or it's you get corrected very quickly if you dare. And that's something that hasn't been, you know, kind of triple, triple supported by with the reference and support. So I think it's in that sense, I'm not sure if it's changed the actual nature of my text. I think of of the text itself, but it probably has maybe very conscious of if I'm writing something factual, something nonfiction to to be more airtight in my reference. Interesting. I do notice that sometimes on Twitter, you kind of reveal a little bit about what you've been writing about. And it's it's things like when when pizza appeared in Ireland. Yes. For the first time. And yes, so I find sometimes I'm very interested more recently, I think possibly ever since for people who for people who are unfamiliar with Irish Twitter, they have something called which is a kind of a broth made with poached sausages. It's it's a traditional Dublin. That's what it's just it's I was fascinated by how in an age of increased imaginary and so many things and with supermarkets and so forth, the idea that you can still have a regional dish and that's maintained a certain regional character in Ireland. And what does it reveal? Where does where does does the coddle line reveal where Dublin stops and starts? Is there it reveals that the Dubliners are wrong and bad and should be like, you know, but yeah. For international listeners, it is it is a stew with with boiled sausages, boiled sausages. Critically, the sausages are not browned. So they're pale sausages. And this is this is the I think when you brown them with a big comes like a cast of layers and things like some. But yes, the so I guess I've been reading more about our own food history and our own food heritage, like the serving Zanya with coleslaw and the when pizzas were produced and when this people stopped using inverted commas around the word pizza. It's struck me as there is a story of our own food culture. When you actually look into it, when you look into why why pizza took long to adapt to why. When you when you realize that this tells a story about kind of European European integration, but also about the introduction of frozen food and how houses and fridges and things like that. And I know the suburban conveniences and how how late they happened in our own compared to the other parts of the world. I didn't know why we still refer to like those fancy fridge freezers as American fridges. I didn't realize this was seen as one of the huge differences between Ireland and America was the the convenience of a fridge of a fridge freezer. And that we and this was something that was seen as so highly American. This is why when when delicatessen started and you pick up some refrigerated food and that's why people to lasagna was next to the coleslaw. And that's why people decided to serve them together. And this is and this is the sort of thing that that we all know doesn't appear necessarily on Wikipedia because it's that kind of very intangible. I mean, to call it intangible heritage is probably overstating it slightly. But it's the kind of thing that you you know yourself having lived in a particular culture or experienced something firsthand, but it's not something that you necessarily find a citation for. And it feels very trivial in comparison to say intangible heritage as it goes of, you know, as as pertains to large parts of the world. But at the same time I was I was recently engaged in an edit war on the crisp sandwich. And whether or not it's an American or a UK Ireland invention. So it's not having a citation thing. I'm sorry, it's an Ireland. It can become very, you know, very kind of heated because there is no definitive answer because it is soft and malleable in in history. That's why it was so important for to find that I actually found that social diarists and in newspapers in the 70s actually get gave some they were their first people to stay with they would notice something like a you wouldn't get a news article about a lasagna is now available and in this shop in Dublin, but you might get like an ad and then maybe social diarists saying, oh, yes, we were we had a lasagna and for the commas. They're recently in very nice and and then and then. So those kinds of things after it happens. And this is it's linked in some ways to the Irish language and that people contesting why if a word really comes from Irish, if it's if it was added after the fact. And I did find that then there was a huge there was a debate with the origin of the word crack. C or AIC as a spelt in Irish. And and there was a widespread view that this was invented in the early 90s to to sell kind of Ireland as a fun destination instead of a intensely religious country. And that's I mean, that may have been a motoc. But if they were deaf and they existed prior to that. And and then you find yes. Some people say, no, I never heard of it from 90s. Well, you didn't hear a lot of things make. And again, yeah, anecdote does not equal data. Also, it's the other side of that. And that's why I suppose it felt that it was it was great to actually go back and you look into these this these food heritage things, because at what point you say, where is a local area? Where does where do you start to stop exactly at the edge of Waterford or do is coddle stuff? Does there is a there is a house, which is the last house to serve coddle and double that as a border between rural Ireland and the city. I do feel very sorry for our interpreters with probably uninterpretable words like coddle, blah, not B, L, A, A, A and a crisp sandwich, because obviously a crisp is not a crisp everywhere in the world. So it's a crisp is not a chip and a potato chip. There's like, do people have potato chip sandwiches in America today? That is a question that is I would imagine just as fraught as the crisp sandwich debate. But it's it's interesting. And that's one of the things where I suppose that's the difference between a minority or a small language Wikipedia, where to a certain extent, if we write the article on a crisp sandwich in Irish, we can kind of centre it within that language and perhaps centre it within that experience. But when you're talking about you're talking about the the English language, then you're having to deal with the whole Anglophone world. And then also the experiences of other languages as they manifest in English then as well. And yeah, so trying to kind of marry there's a there's I suppose there's a niceness to the kind of small community language Wikipedia that allows for perhaps a little bit more kind of cohesion or something around certain topics. I'm assuming knowledge. I think we it's it's very hard to find the point of assume knowledge in an article. If you think that if you're going to write an article about John Charles McQuade and how much same knowledge about Irish Catholicism do you bring and how much do you just say, well, actually, you know, you could reason they expect a person who's never on the board to pick it up. Because if I was going to somewhere, you just stumble upon an article about a major kind of theological figure in another country. And I would have no knowledge. I would like to think that Wikipedia would be able to cater for me. That's a that's a topic we've never and it's probably a massive one right up to me back on here to talk about. But yeah, assumed knowledge is yeah. And and as Yana is saying, like systematic bias that if you're translating and I think this is a really interesting point for small language, Wikipedia's the kind of the chasing of translating from a dominant language, say like English or French or Portuguese or Spanish into another language Wikipedia can import all of those things in with it. And I yeah, I think it's something that the Vika paid community, not that they discourage translations, but perhaps it's not seen as the most effective way to build an encyclopedia. I do sometimes from from my limited French and German school, I sometimes look at articles in Ireland and articles about Irish, right, topics in those languages. And I think that the French, the French article on on quark has a lot of kind of a popes out front the monster rugby team and the quark accent in ways which were which I wasn't expected to see. And these things don't get mentioned at all. German and the German article at work, but it's interesting because obviously the France quark connection is not will never be mean. Monster rugby is going to be always going to be a huge part of that. And whereas it wouldn't be that that wouldn't be the first thing for a German person to think of when they make a quark or a Swedish person to think of when they think of quark. That's really interesting. Do you have anything I wonder what the Vika paid sorry, the Wikipedia article on theory on re might say. I'm going to check that now. Yes, that's the theory on re in Ireland is kind of our version of of don't mention the war. I think sometimes Irish football players we are we're coming up to time and I wanted to just I don't want to wind us up too quickly, but at the same time don't want to get cut off on ceremoniously as it has as happens with these things. But I really wanted to thank you, Derek, so much for for all of your support over the years. You have allowed me to be the curator of the mother folklore and Twitter account over the years, which is a massive following and to tweet both myself and Claire have tweeted about the page and Wikipedia editing over the years. So thank you very much for that. Was there anything kind of you wanted to to say to kind of conclude? No, just to congratulate you on a continued success of the world over into Wikipedia. I can't get back in and see what you have next. Oh, fantastic. Do you want to take us out for you? Yes, and that was the world according to Wikipedia. Join us again in two weeks. You can subscribe to us and your podcast player of choice. Follow us on Twitter at world underscore Wikipedia. Thanks to Patricia O'Flaherty for our artwork and Head Stuff for production assistance. Go to Head Stuff podcast dot com for show notes, more information and to support the Head Stuff Plus network. And you can sign up there to become a supporter if you want to, you know, if you're listening and you feel that you want to support us more. You can go to Head Stuff Plus dot com and support us there or Head Stuff podcast dot com. Support us. And if you've been intrigued by by some of the Irish culture that has been mentioned, there are plenty of other podcasts on that network. One particular and the name is falling out of my head right now, but does it's all that food? So that's spice bags. So yes, look up the phenomena of the spice bag as well. If we've peaked your interest. But thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate it. We know we're a little bit kind of a little bit different in the Wikimanias set up this this year. But thank you all for joining us and for all of your comments. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. It's long gone from Ireland.