 ...we experienced last week at Ateratak, it's not the first time it has happened before, but again we want to see what does it call for to ensure that people are safe in an environment, and when you speak about terrorism it's something that is premeditated or politically instigated. And the question I want to ask why do you think Kenya is a soft place for terrorism in the recent past. First of all, before I add my thoughts on that, it's a pleasure to be here and first forward my condolences to the families that lost their loved ones. In these tough times we pray that God's grace be with them and Kenya in my professional opinion is being untwisted by the terrorists. This act of planning and executing terrorist attacks in this city is something that is premeditated. My opinion is simple. These terrorists are thought by the citizenry to come or ailed from a neighbouring country that is Somalia. For a very long time Somalia has been socio-economically and even politically unstable. They have been experiencing internal wars and the army was set up to help eradicate these terrorist groups in Somalia. Our government played its part as a loyal country forming the Africa Union Outfit and sent some of our defence forces there. In a retaliatory move, terrorists found themselves in our country and they have been doing this as a message to government to withdraw the forces. So I think Kenya and of course the Kenyan government is being untwisted to withdraw the forces from the neighbouring country of Somalia. And in your own opinion do you think now we should withdraw our troops from Somalia? Well my opinion in the house of cards, in the house of political cards there is a statement that goes bad for a greater good. And I think that is what President Kenyatta and his entire administration have put in place. Continuing to hold our members of the elite defence force in Somalia will continue to see spets of attacks in Kenya. And they are always very particular in their statements even on social media. That until such a time that you will withdraw your forces will always coordinate these attacks. The time has come when President Kenyatta must stop his act of being a loyal member of the African Union and bring back our troops to Kenya. Alright, most of the leaders sent their messages of condolences to the families affected. And I remember one Honorable Rayla saying terrorism thrives in division. Do you think our country Kenya we are divided and that's why this time round we were hit? Well Hillary we are divided but our division cannot castigate or go into bring to us external terror attacks. Our division has nothing to do with terror attacks. There is a political scientist, a graduate from more university who wrote in his final year thesis. I think you guys will look for him so that he can add his thought. He is called Loi Fodmutuma. He said the Kenyan terrorist case is something to do with ethno-religious fundamentalism whereby the terrorists have guided our thoughts into thinking that this thing is something to do with the religious intolerance. No, this is purely political grievances whereby politicians have directed our thoughts into us believing that our forces are strong and they can help bring peace in other nations, which is not the case. If at all our forces would not go to meddle in that other country and they were here, even if we would be divided ethnically or tribally based on tribal lines, we could not be seeing this terror attack. And you remember, is it one hour and 20 minutes after the Ducit D2 spate, they claimed responsibility and the underlying factor was that with the draw. Where else we continue? No, let's now move to the interest of our topic tonight. How do you compare, how we compare this situation compared to the other time of Uwesti gate? How was the response? Well, my own professional opinion again, it's nostalgic. Where else we are celebrating milestones in terms of response, no, not response in terms of executing the final assault on the terrorists themselves. We are still nostalgic on the timelines taken to finally condone them, seclude them and do away with them. You remember when social media went to bars with blasts being heard from the Riverside Drive, there was assumption from both domestic and foreign media that it was a normal robbery. That's how it begins. But now when the gunshots go beyond 15 minutes, it's automatically declared as a terror attack. And then when you are keen, Hillary, this time around the armed civilians were more responsive than the elite forces. Though it took a shorter time compared to Westgate, but the final roundup of the terrorists and even the declaring the 21 dead, it's still something that disturbs us as a people. So whereas we are celebrating the milestones of response, we still nostalgic about the future. But again, on the question of civilians coming to help with their guns, do you think that was in order? Well, for the first time we saw carelessness in civilians brandishing their guns, especially civilians who are not members of the forces but are either public intellectuals or politicians or they have a name in the scene. We saw them brandishing very powerful guns, though not being part of the active operation. I think that was careless and the Ministry of Interior should draft policies that guide civilians on the usage of their firearms. You just spoke of Kenyans sharing on social media. And I remember in Westgate attack, very many pictures were shared on social media, many things were said. But this time around, do you think Kenyan citizens behaved in the right manner? Okay, I also want to, in response to that, I still want to draw a clause from Leuford Mutuma's dissertation, which highlights very comprehensively on social media sensationalism and how it directs people's thoughts. We remember just during the active operation there was Kenyans on Twitter asking for the deportation of New York Times East African lead editor because she was overseeing the posting of very sensitive photos. I think that whereas we celebrate our media in their responsiveness and in coverage there should be policies that guide what they post because the things that they post, the pictures of the dead, those guys have families, children and them learning about the death of their loved ones on social media. We can imagine. I remember during the Westgate we saw the front page of one of the dailies of a person who was in terror and then there was an outcry this time around. How do you think the media covered this terror? The media was timely. They were up to date. I celebrated reporters even risked their lives and accompanied the members of the forces right into the building and we celebrated them for that. That one shows selflessness but we still maintain as the consumers of the content brought by the media there really should be policies and guidelines on how to cover terror. I don't think terror attacks should be covered live. I think maybe you should just share photos of the building that has been affected so that people don't go there and also you should share things like the roads that the government has opened up for usage but not an active operation. But again human nature you want to know what is happening. You want to be curious what has happened between the last minute I checked. Yes, should that be? I agree but it has to be guided again. I am basing my response to this because myself I was in my office when I had a colleague of mine react like this. You see social media and you shout, there is a terror attack in Nairobi. They are not saying where, they are not saying when it started but it could be next to us there. Then when I logged into my Twitter feeds I saw three foreigners shot dead in some parts of the hotel section of D2 and I was like, what if this was my dad or mom. I didn't see the building, I just saw the dead bodies and so I was shocked. And therefore it's human nature to want to know rights to information but guide it bad for a greater good. Now speaking of the terror it can happen to anyone and now this time around it happens to people who are busy in their offices. Now do you think organizations should have an awareness or a training to their employees in case of such a disaster what you should do? Both Westgate and DCTD to Terras Pets is a wake up call. Not only to government, not only to the president but also to independent organizations in time because they keep on saying that security begins with you and me. Whereas this campaign that guides maning institutions like these should be armed but again that will take another process of training awareness and all that. So yes I agree the government should put factor in sessions where these people are their capacity are re-evaluated and where need be they can be armed. Even the people who tried to help do you think you should know what you're doing because it was an open place and everyone was like I want to help but again oblivious of the danger they were putting themselves into. Do you think there should be something done to ensure that even if you're helping someone you're also not putting yourself into danger? Yes it goes back to policy whereby I think only accredited institutions like Kenya Red Cross, licensed civilian gun owners and people trained in disaster mitigation and they have their valid licenses and documentation should be allowed in an active counter-terror activity. But once you can't prove that you are part of these aforementioned segments I really think you should just help by praying. Very true. Now let's speak about the security forces. Do you think our intelligence is in a good position to counter-attack? From what I saw our intelligence is good. The training is candid and they are up to the task but that does not mean that more exposure should not be done to them especially now. You know my fear right now. We don't know if there is another coordinated attack somewhere in this city or somewhere in Umbasa. We are living in the hope that that was the last one. And therefore our team is good but we need to recruit more people into the elite forces, into the normal administration police so that we have sufficiency in combating terrorism domestically. Still on matter security we saw the police being brought together to reduce the callings or the levels at which you should communicate because something might happen. Say Kenya police speaking to this level then before it gets even to the armed forces it's too late. Do you think that one has helped? It has. The centralization of command has helped because for once we saw there was a central command unit whereby only a person was directing and coordinating the active operation. And like last time when we had members of the Rekis Code finding it had to coordinate to synchronize with members of the general service unit one Rekis Code official was shot accidentally at the west gate by a member of the military and they had to withdraw because there was a decentralization of the command unit. And therefore it was a plus to the defense department and next time let there be a centralized way of doing or carrying out counterterrorism. Alright as we finish your final comments and do you think in as much as the government is trying to fund these intelligence groups and our security forces what more do you think should be done to ensure we are totally safe? Alright one the end the final end of terror in Kenya that is castigated or initiated by the Alshabab will end by just a statement from the head of state. That very moment that he will use his powers as the commander in chief to withdraw our KDF soldiers from Somalia. Will not that be seen as a sign of weakness? It will be seen as a sign of weakness but never again I can assure you never again will we see such coordinated because we cannot lose our patriotic fellow Kenyans just because we want to help our neighbor. But see Uganda, Djibout, Nigeria these are countries far from why are they hit or because of the Amisom the same? Let's put it this way then Hilary. Let President Kenyatta and his people from the defense section of the country hold the operations in Somalia with the KDF only if we have the capacity to handle retaliatory attacks from Alshabab. If we are going to continue losing lives now we maintain that they should be pulled out.