 Good evening. It's five o'clock on Tuesday, February 6. For the select board meeting. February 6. 20. Oh, right. Okay. That's fine. Yes. Okay. February 20th. And we are going to call to order and welcome guests. We have Brian Voight from central Vermont regional planning commission. We have Michael appoint from NRCS. They're going to be. Talking with us through the second item on the agenda. We have Randall's iPhone. Welcome Randall. I'm not sure why you're here, but maybe you're just here to see it. Okay. Thank you. And Randall's friend. And Zara. Welcome. Why? Okay. Randall's wife. Friend too. Okay. So we're going to prove the minutes of the two, six, 2024 select board meeting action likely. Any discussion about the minutes? Okay. Is there a motion? Okay. Randy's. Okay. And. Vick seconded. Yep. So all those in favor of approving the minutes from two six, say aye. Okay. The eyes have it. So now we're going to approve tonight's agenda for two 20. Action likely. Is there a motion? So. Liz. I believe we want to have a discussion about the ARPA funds. Correct. Yeah, I was going to ask if. There were any things to add. It's on the agenda. Agenda. Yeah. I know all the chairs. It's on at 545, the treasurer's report interviewing the ARPA projects. Okay. Thank you. Is there anything else that people want to add for the agenda? No. Randy, anything for you? Nope. Okay. Hi, Adrian. We have Adrian here also for the agenda item number two. Okay. So is there a motion to approve the agenda? You motion you. Randy motioned and you are second. Okay. Vick second in all those in favor of approving the agenda for two 20, say aye. Aye. Great. Well, we are ahead of schedule at five. Oh three, but I think we have everybody here. Is that right, Brian? Was anyone else going to come for your. From your team? No. And thank you, Michael for, for joining us. And we have Adrian McGeita here as well. Representing. Representing middle sex as a volunteer for this emergency watershed program. So we thought it would be helpful to invite Brian and Michael here, especially as there's been sort of updated news about the funding piece of this. Excuse me. I'm sorry. I don't know. Brian's last name. It's Voight. Voigt. Voigt. Yeah. From such Vermont regional planning. So I don't remember who sent the mail. Was it the email, Michael? Was it you who, who told us about this updated. Possibility of how we might be able to. Pay the contractors and maybe you'd want to sort of talk us through that a little bit for the other board members. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And first I'll start with our require policy waiver request for 100% cost share was approved this morning. Oh, so we expect to get the additional funds. For the projects that have been funded by next middle next week. So I won't impact. Unless you guys signed the agreement right now, what we do is when the agreements executed is have to do an amendment to add the additional funds. So it's just going to be another step. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The town's with an agreement already. We'll go through an agreement, an amendment process to add those additional funds. I will say. One stipulation, though, is that. The funding pool of the national office is for the whole country plus some of the outlying. Areas in the Pacific and the Atlantic Ocean. So when we come out to bid, let's say in the middle of June or July and the bids are higher. So that all comes down to the funds being available at the time that we make the request. So at the end of next week, we'll have the funds to cover 100% of what our DSR estimates were for this event for all the projects in the state of Vermont that we had eligible. As we go down the line, that's always the possibility that they run out of funds. And then we either put the projects on a wait list until more funds become available by Congress or the town needs to decide if they want to move ahead with the funding that's available. I just want to say that it's always going to be 100%. There's always that caveat that they run out of funds in the pot at the national office. So anyways, for the initial part of it, as far as the estimate you have and what's going into the agreement, we'll have 100% of those funds next week sometime. Okay. For the reimbursement. Yep. I just need clarification for the minutes. 100% of the funds paid for what exactly would. The cost of the funds. The cost of the funds. The cost of the funds. I need to spell it out. Okay. 100%. What is that covering Michael? That's for the construction cost. So, so the cost share rate. We have two funding pools. The financial assistance, what we call FAA funds covers construction costs. Initially the funding ratio was 75% 25%. And ours is. Would pay 25 or 75% in the town was responsible for. 25%. 25% liability to the private landowners that are benefiting from it. How they do that. That's up to the towns and we don't get involved in that piece. We don't have any authority beyond the town. With our agreement. The waiver request we did was to increase the. The FAA cost share to 100%. So. We'll receive 100% and the DSR stands for damage survey report. So every site that we went to. For the event, which was over 200. 36 sites, I think we're up to now. We did a damage survey report on, and it comes back as either being eligible or not eligible. Part of the eligibility is doing an estimate of the repair cost. And that's. Turns into our funding request. So the funds we received is based on our estimated cost of the repair. So. By next week, we'll have 100% of the cost share for. Those eligible DSRs in middle sex. Okay. So. We'll have 100% of the cost share. So. We'll have 100% of the cost share. The engineering was already 100% covered that we never had to worry about, right? Yes and no. It is 100%, but we have a limited pool of funds. The amount we get is based on. Our estimated cost. It's a percentage. So we. Receive 15% of whatever the estimated cost construction is. So we offered up. Two thirds of what we received because it also covers my salary and all the other staff. So. So. We have a lot of people that do the NEPA reviews. On our staff. So. We offered up two thirds of what we got of the, that TA. We don't have a history of requiring. Sponsors contract engineering services. So. In my 30 years doing this, I've only requested additional TA twice, which is the technical assistance fund. We had one approved and one denied. So that's my, my track record for TA. So I don't know how. So we have a budget. I think we'll have a budget for additional funds. We'll be taken. But once you have a price proposal slash bid from an engineering firm for services. The town can request additional funds. And we'll. Put that stuff to the national office and try to get some more funds. But if you read an agreement, when you get it, it's always states in there that. There's no guarantee. We'll actually cover 100% of those TA. Expenses. It's just it's a limited pool. It's all we have. So we won't know until that piece comes in. If the bids come in and we can't get more TA and you feel that's too high a price for the town to bear, you guys can end the process right now. It doesn't have to go any further. You're under no obligation going to the end. The only time you'll have to finish a project is once construction starts, you have to finish it. So the, there's still the 25% responsibility of the homeowner. No, that's 100. So, so it wasn't like they're doing this to sort of front us and they're, and we're still going to get. No, we're going to cover 100% of the cost. We should be able to cover 100% of the cost. It's just, there's always the possibility they run out of funds as we go down the event. We've got over 12 million dollars worth of work and California keeps getting hit with floods and landslides. So, I know they're going to be dipping into that pool. It's just, that's. You know, they, I think they had 100 million at the end of the year last year. So I know there's funds there, but. We've run into where we had to, we had to go on a wait list because there were no more funds at the national office. I just don't want you to think that it's always 100%. It's just. At some point either it goes on a wait list or you accept what we can offer for cost share. So the final cost share might end up less. I don't see that happening right now, but it's a possibility. Randy, I just have a question for Michael. Michael, it sounds like. All the way up until the day that trucks start rolling or equipment is deployed to the site that. You know, we could obviously check in and make sure that the bid cost that was approved and whatnot that funding hasn't run out and we could essentially call somebody off. All the way up until the day that they deployed. Is that accurate? Correct. As soon as the contractor expends a penny on a project, we got to go to the end. But we would know whether or not funding was available. Before that, theoretically, right? So, so if you guys get bids, the first thing you'll want to do that exceeds the DSR estimate is submit a request for additional funding. And then we submit a request to our national office and they either approve it or deny. I don't think I've ever had one denied other than they didn't have the funds for it was could have gone on a wait list. Thank you. So, welcome. So, and your thought, I mean, what you're saying in this letter is that as soon as we get an invoice, we submit it with this SF 270. Which gives us buys us like 2 weeks of time for us to get the money. From you and then we can pay the contractor, which. Correct. Which helps out alone to pay this. Right, so the FF 270 is the reimbursement form. It doesn't matter whether it's. It's done where the town pays 100% or we do this way is an accrual. With the accrual it's it's if we went with like to try to do an advanced payment and agreement. It comes with time limit. So if anything happens to delay the construction and you run up against the wall of that. Extension limit you run into a lot of problems with the agreement doing it this way. My experience in the last 10 years since we instituted the new system that they've got a place for agreements. This payments usually happen within 1 to 2 weeks of receiving a request for reimbursement from the town. I typically work with the town to make sure the paperwork is in order and the invoice is there. And with just doing the invoice at this point, you don't have to worry about that show that to cancel check or anything. So if you get the invoice, you submit that SF 270. We process it and usually in under 2 weeks, the grant people will pay for it. So high priorities for them to get the payments done. And that would give you the town 2 weeks roughly to pay the contractor within that 30 day limit. And our deposit happens electronically. So it's not like you have to wait for a check coming in the mail. And there's no time restraints in that. So it's not like an actual advance. It's just we're paying ahead of time. At some point, the town's going to have to show proof that the contractor was paid in full. That's a requirement of the agreement. But by doing the accrual piece, you get the funds basically upfront as soon as you get the invoice. You aren't required to pay the contractor first. So Michael, can you kind of walk through so that we understand. So, you know, we have limited staff. And they have lots to do like, what kind of commitment is this for like walk us through a family that has signed up for this and. They want to get a contractor who is scheduling the contractor who is. Who is making sure the whole project happens. That's the responsibility of the sponsor. The landowner itself doesn't have, we can't work directly with the landowner. They have no. No buy in as far as we're concerned, it's strictly through the sponsor for us. Regional planning commission, I think part of what they were doing, I could be wrong, but I think they're working on. The request for for engineering services. I don't know if they extend to the construction piece of it, but everything is through the town. So ultimately the town is responsible for it. So part of what you could do with the request for engineering services is that the engineering firm would provide construction oversight. On behalf of the town. And they'll certify their design, they'll certify the project at the end of it. Yeah, and if I could just jump in, thanks, thanks for that clarification, Michael. Hi folks, this is Brian Voight with the central remote regional planning commission. So, yes, the, the request for proposals is, is generally speaking, it's ready to go and we would be identifying an engineering firm that would revisit those final designs make any changes as necessary and then release the request for bids as Michael just mentioned the request for bids then would be or the bids themselves would be submitted by one or more construction firms. The engineering contractor that we hire will help us make sense of that and get us to a decision point on a contractor. And then when the contractor is ready to invoice the invoices will go to the engineer for a review they'll forward them to us and we'll forward them to the town with the SF to 70 form so that, so that you're ready to submit that in a timely fashion, get the money and once the money hits your bank account. I don't see CVRPC playing a role in helping with with the payment to the contractor or the engineer, other than us approving an invoice for payment and supplying any necessary documentation as Michael has pointed out. Okay, so you will play a decent part in this in terms of. Really it sounds like the treasurer or the bookkeeper gets the invoice and with the form the SF to 70. And we send, we send that in, we get our money, we pay our contractor. And then if there's some issue with like somebody's home right who are they communicating with you Brian like the Central Farm Regional Planning Commission or what do you mean by issue is I'm not I'm not sure I understand that anything that could come up where the homeowner needs to communicate with someone about this, this project that's being worked on, that's the engineer. Yeah, they can reach out to CVRPC is their their first point of contact but it's likely we would involve the engineer, or if it's an issue about construction the engineer and the construction firm and if we had to go out and do a site visit and talk through things but I think that kind of, you know, the concerns will be alleviated at the time that we get that landowner commitment letter, they're going to understand what exactly is going to go on on their property and how long it's anticipated to take. So, you know, best laid plans and so forth hopefully we don't run into those but types of issues but if we do then sure CVRPC can be the first point of contact but it's likely we'll pull in the engineer and construction contractor, depending on the issue that's highlighted. Okay, so are there any questions for their questions? Sarah, do you have one? We've got tons. Okay, Sarah has a lot of questions. She's taking notes. Hi, I'm Sarah Matelkler. Yeah, I assume that our records will be audited. We need to have records available for auditing, right? It's records need to be kept for three years. I'm not sure I know of any sponsor that's ever been audited for but it's a requirement agreement to keep records for three years. It's always a chance. So that's the first question. So all the notes that you have with the engineer and the construction firm, we will need to have those in our records, right? Correct. Ultimately that the sponsor is responsible for the work in the sense that it's everything through the sponsor. Right, so although Central Mont Regional Planning Commission is doing submitting the RFPs and hiring the engineer and having them review the construction, ultimately we're the ones responsible at the end for what happens, correct? So we just need to know that we have. Okay, so that's my first question. My second question is, we have, having gone through FEMA files, I know how precise everything is. Do we, we have absolutely no responsibility to pay for or put out RFPs on the various sites? You know, whether that's State of Vermont or Business Registry, that will not fall into us at all. I don't, that depends on what the agreement is between CFRPC and you. So that's a role that we're happy to play. Sarah, we've got, we have funding independent of this project work through the Municipal Technical Assistance Program to provide you with that support. So we're happy to put the RFP out on the bid registry, advertise it on the CVRPC website. The only thing I wouldn't be able to do is to modify your own website where I would also suggest that you advertise the opportunity. That's certainly up to you, but I can take care of the CVRPC side in the Vermont bid registry, no problem. And then that, that'll also carry through for the construction contractor that the, either the engineer or CVRPC will help advertise the construction opportunity. Once again, through CVRPC website and the bid registry, along with direct solicitation. At any time, will those proposals or bids need to be approved by the select court? Well, you know, the way I envision this playing out is that we'll receive all of those proposals for the engineering services and we'll review them and it would be great if there was someone from the select board that wanted to be part of that review panel to help make the ultimate decision on which engineering firm we go with for the project. And then in a similar fashion, the engineering firm will receive all of the bids from the construction firms that respond. They'll prepare a memo that offers a recommendation for a construction firm and typically will have a follow up meeting with other project partners to make sure everyone's on the same page before a contract is extended to a, to a construction firm. Okay. And so what happens if we run into weather delays or cost overruns at any, at any point is the town on the hook for any of this money. That you can envision once they've started the shoveling. I mean, like, let's say a project is $100,000. Now the project goes into $120,000. I mean, that's my concern is that as you're talking about going down the road and these projects, you know, start getting bundled and they're getting more expensive. I think we all know that construction costs always go over whatever their budget is. How will the town ever have to put out its own money at any time to cover these costs. Okay. One of the key things that was brought up was the landowner involvement. And one of the things that can happen is the landowner can start directing the contractor, but technically from our point of view, the contractor works for the town. And if they start directing the contractor do work that's not approved that we call that an on authorize expenditure and we would not cover that. If there's any kind of a change order that's needed. And RCS should be involved immediately and the town should request additional funds if it's needed for it. And that work should not happen until those funds have been obligated. Basically, we can't pay for work that's done before the funds for that portion of the work is done. My concern is this that we will at some point and I can just see this happening because how many projects do we have in middle sex. Do you guys know 1010 projects. The town of middle sex is not want to be in the business of chasing down private homeowners for money that, you know, no one, no one, not you guys aren't going to chase them down, we would have to chase them down. And that's that I'm just trying to spare the town future pain, just be clear about whether or not we're going to have to expend any town money or go after anybody. I don't want to do that. That's right. An answer I can't give 100% to this point Sarah the 100% match is going to cover the proposal that's put forth by the contractor that's approved. I think what we need to be clear is that anything outside of that is a separate arrangement between the building owner or the land owner and that contractor, and that just needs to be specified as far as the approved contract. I don't worry if they say, you know, I want you to work on my garage and she picks my driveway that's not my concern my concern is that the actual private that's fit for they say oh crap. This is bigger than we thought we're going to need X he does anybody is in construction. Well, he did say that I think Michael if I understood you was that they're covering 100% of the estimate today, not six months from now when the guy actually says, actually it's going to cost 120,000 right now 100 that you but that's when we go in and we ask for more is that right Michael where we say and providing the funds are at the National providing the funds or the National Office, those those requests should be approved. Yeah. And the hard part is when we're under construction and things have to come to a stop until we get more funds. And, you know, we're always playing that game is the funds available or not. So, saying 100% the town would never be have to to come up with funds or in the case of private landowners that you would transfer the landowners. I can't say 100% no because we could be into the construction. You request the funds there's no funds in the pool and either we shut the project down, or you choose to go through with the project without the additional funds needed for that piece of it. I'm just wondering that the funds are there. Yeah, it should be 100% cost there for these projects. I'm one minute Peter, Adrian has her hand up first. Right now the landowners think that they're going to pay 25% and an email that I sent earlier this week. I suggested to them that we were going to ask for that money before they, when they signed the contract before the work began, so that the town would have that money. And it, it might behoove us to do that anyway, even though we think 100% is going to get covered. They're under the understanding that they're going to pay 25% right now. And then I pay it back. We would pay it back if it came in at the bit and we didn't you know we got the 100% funds, but that's a possibility to get some of that stress. Yeah, or overruns. Yeah. Peter. I'm sorry, Peter, I don't want to, I just want to weigh in on one other one other thing real real quickly about the cost and part of the reason to bring the engineer in at this time prior to them requesting bids from construction contractors is to make a final assessment of the cost. I mean, yes, I understand that it could still change once, once construction begins, but the, the point of bringing the engineer in is to really tighten up those costs and, you know, make make refinements on the individual sites themselves so that we know ahead of time, if we're going to be in a situation where we need to request additional funds from the NRCS. So, again, it's not a 100%. There's not going to be cost overruns but the cost themselves that the project estimate themselves should be as good as they're going to get because the construction is going to happen imminently after those bids have been prepared. It's not like the bids will be prepared and construction is going to happen in 2025 where I would agree that the cost overrun concern would be a lot more pressing. Yes, Peter Hood. Thank you, Brian. I have a quick technical question. So, let's suppose the worst happens and there's a project underway and there's a cost overrun and we apply for more funds and there are no funds available and we can put on some kind of a waiting list. Do we have the option of funding that work and then getting reimbursed later? Or do we need to stop the work until it's, until the additional funds are available? Everything I've ever been told is the work would have to stop. We can't pay for expenses that occur before we have the funds. It's called an unauthorized expenditure. So, if we go ahead and pay that money, we can't get reimbursed is what you're saying. Correct. Which comes to shove when you just stop the work and wait for the funds to come available. Right. So, like I said, if there's a change order needed, we should know immediately and if it requires additional funds, we should go through that process of asking for the funds first for that piece of the work happens. Okay. I assume, Brian and Michael, that whoever gets hired as a contractor understands that there are the way they're supposed to manage their programs. I mean, this, you know, their projects. They're not going to do something and then be like, oh, I didn't know. I mean, I would want to have that written into the contract specifically, which is, you know, common practice that I've, I've done for other stormwater work that that I've been involved in. So the contractor will know who they're who they report to. And just like the engineer will know that when they're reviewing an invoice from the contractor, if they see work that's not related to the final design that they've signed off on. They're going to point that out to the contractor and, you know, we'll do what we need to to get that straightened out, but I don't. I don't think a contractor is going to be willing to risk doing work that they're not certain it's going to be paid back and the best way we can ensure that is to be real clear in the contract that the town has with the construction contractor specifying sort of the chain of command. Gotcha. Okay, so in the interest of time, are there any more questions? Just a quick one is on, I'm assuming they can't work on all these 10 properties at once. So, is there a way if we were to run out of funds and couldn't get more. How do we determine which homeowner gets left out. I guess it's probably a, you, they're on the schedule and if. Yeah, first come, first serve, I guess. We received funding per site. So, let's say you have a site in the town that the site doesn't want to go through with it or drops out. Those funds are still in the agreement and we could reallocate that to one of the other ones. If we request additional funds, they'll be based on the request that you submit. So if you've got, I mean, you potentially have more than one contractor bidding. If you get three contracts for contracting services, if you wanted to, it's up to how the RPC wants to bid this out, but. Okay. I mean, some of these, some of these projects are realistically an afternoon, you know, removing two trees, cleaning out a ditch. Some of them are certainly more involved than that, but you know, I don't think we've made any decisions about contractors, the fewer the contractors, the easier it is from a. Preparing contract standpoint, but if we don't get any construction contractors that indicate either willingness or ability to do all 10 projects. We would certainly bring on additional contractors so we can meet the obligations of our agreement with NRCS and in particular make sure that we get everything done within the deadline. Yeah, the only thing I just wanted to bring up Adrian's comment there about and. About telling the property owner that they would are taking their 25%. Maybe we just said that they're going to pay 100%. It just doesn't. Sounds like almost like a security deposit that you get back if it. I mean, I understand as long as we're transparent about it saying we're, you know, they're supposed to pay 100%, but. You know, in case they don't, I think we should tell them. Oh, of course. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they're into the. I've already told them. That they're going to say that they have to pay 25%. Because we didn't know about this till this morning. This is new information. So now you're going back and telling me. I mean, wouldn't you tell them that they get that they don't have to do that. And she was just suggesting that if there was ever a concern that we actually had to come back to the homeowner for money, they are all aware that. That they would have had to come up with 25%. For us to now say, well, it's going to be covered 100% we think we're crossing our fingers and hoping. We don't want the tap to go back to them and say, oops, it's actually costing 10% more. Can you give us the money for it is really. And it doesn't sound like that's a really high probability, but yeah, so we don't have to do that. But the concern was when I first spoke to Sarah that if homeowners didn't. Pay that 25% the town was on the hook for it. And that was not okay. That's not the case. So it's not the case now, but getting that 25% ahead of time. Assured that the town would not be on the hook for it. And it could be worded to the, to the individuals, landowners that, you know, it's for cost overrun. If, if we're, you know, the anticipation is that based on the bids going to be paid 100%. If there's a cost overrun that 25% or whatever that that number would be would come from the homeowner. Yeah, yeah. So, no, I would absolutely tell them. I mean, they're all going to be a static. Maybe on the phone right now. Right. Sarah meeting was having. Sorry, my comment is from listening to these gentlemen is that the work would have to stop if, if there was a cost overrun anyway, and then that cost would be paid for. 25% is a lot to ask for, especially if we're not going to get paid. If they're not going to get paid back. If it does overrun. You understand. So if we have to stop, if they have to stop work on their location, and then asked for more money, if it does overrun, then it doesn't make sense for them to prepay if it's not going to get paid back. Yes, sir. I think there might be a legal issue about whether or not a municipality can take money like that. Right. Yeah. Anyway, I mean, yeah. We don't have to wait. We're not in that position anymore. Yeah, we're not in that position. Right. So I would say that it probably is easier. Thank you so much for asking. Patrick what Yeah, first, thank you everybody for all your work on this. I'm one of the homeowners landowners and and so, but just on this subject, like, I don't know everybody's project but it's not small amounts of money, the 25% for some of them. And so, yeah we're just worried for some folks that might be hard to come up with that 25% when they don't need to. So hopefully it sounds like it's not necessary. I will certainly try and come up with it if it is necessary because I really want this project to go forward. But just if you're asking for it like a security deposit. Just please keep in mind that it may be really hard for some people to come up with that. Thanks. Okay, so are there any other questions for the experts on the zoom Brian and Michael. No, okay. So now we're at a point where we need to vote whether or not we as a select board want to move forward with this, knowing what we know. I'm hoping for the worst knowing that could be hoping for the best rather and knowing there could be there there could be points where maybe everyone's project doesn't get completed. And knowing what our responsibilities are as the financial side of this and as the sponsor, knowing that CVR PC is going to be supporting us in many ways to make this a successful project. Is there a motion to approve? Is this what we're doing? Like we signed something but what are you approving to participate in this program? The emergency watershed program agreement. They wanted us to sign a contract. The last document that I sent you was an actual agreement, but that would have to be redone based on this new information. Correct. Okay, the issue of amendment. Okay, so is there a motion? I would make that motion. Okay, so Randy is going to move that we signed the agreement with an amendment that would be coming. Peter, are you seconding it? Yes. Okay. Thank you for your discussion. Okay, so all those in favor of signing the agreement for the emergency watershed program with the amendment based on what we just learned tonight say I. Hi. Alrighty, that's it. Great. Thank you so much, Brian and Michael for coming and explaining this to us. Thank you for coming. You're welcome to stay for the rest of the meeting. If you want to know what happens at a select board meeting, it's really exciting. Okay, so we are going to now move. Do we so do we have something we're going to somebody's going to give us. We're going to have to send the amendment. Okay. Mike, will you send the amendment to Dorenda? He's gone. He just, he just dropped off, but I believe what I heard him say earlier was that that, that their agreement, their in-house agreement will be finalized next week. And if you sign the, the agreement that he's already sent out, we can submit that to him and then he will provide a contract amendment that you would then just need to authorize as well. Okay. Thank you. We're behind my schedule, but it's 525. It's not 525. It's 538 and it's the highway department report general updates from the highway department revisiting the change order proposal for all seasons non-emergency work action possible and considering access for John McCain on Portal Road, action likely. Take it away, Eric. I do not believe that that in written change order acceptance from FEMA was done. Do you, do you know? Say that a little bit louder, please. So we need to get in writing the authority to review a change order. Is that, is that ready to ask for that? Is that what we're supposed to do? No. That's what we discussed in the last minute. I'm asking, I wasn't here for a week. So I don't know if that got done or not. I mean, Randy asked for it. Okay. So we need to know if it's up to the board or it's up to Randy. It doesn't matter. So I think it was, I think it was that we wanted to, and we didn't revisit it. I wasn't here that last week. Was I? I just didn't know how it turned out. So this is really about rather than, if this, if I recall, rather than just having the guys say, yeah, no problem. We can do this change order for non-emergency work that maybe it's something that should come to select board. Is that right, Randy? Yeah. So, I mean, the meeting minutes, I'll read from the meeting. Well, what took place? Okay. So the board reviewed a change order for $36,000 on work to be done on Davey Road by all seasons. Randy said it needed to be put out to bid since it's essentially a different project than what all seasons was doing this fall when according to Vic, the excavation company discovered additional work needed to be done. Randy said a six month time difference between the emergency work that was completed in this work, which would be done in the summer, makes us makes it a separate project. Eric said all seasons couldn't finish the project last fall since winter hit. They will have to complete the work in the summer and according to Vic, usually that is given to the guy who already has the contract. Randy said if others are more expensive than all seasons would be awarded the bid. Peter said presuming this project was going to be FEMA eligible, it should be put out to bid. Randy said he'd be okay with the change order if FEMA gives the go ahead to all seasons to add this extra work. Liz noted the contract as a specific end date. And Peter said that will need to be extended. And Dorenda asked if this was emergency or permanent work that said permanent work. Randy again requested written approval from FEMA's project development manager, the board agreed and tabled the change order until the next meeting that preferably the town FEMA's project coordinator will attend. So the board agreed to the FEMA project development managers approval. Did they? Because that's what that means. That's what this, that's what this says. That means they agreed to table it. The board, the board agreed and then tabled the change order until the next meeting. Right. There's nothing in there that we're going to talk to, ask Steve. Steve said that they, that they did. Steve's online. I don't know if that's what they're, it's different, Steve. Oh, is that a different Steve wrong? Steve? Steve said what Steve. He said that. He had talked to. FEMA and they were on board with it. And that, and he said that before we had that meeting and I thought I'd brought that up but then they just get it. But anyways, with that said, is that what we're going to do continually, because that's one of the big questions in this work that's coming up. What about change? So I think that the changes are going to be here. I'm not arguing with you, Randy. It's just my belief that it's kind of like, that's the way we do. That's the way this has always been done. I think that the, and sorry. No, go ahead. I think that the difference here for, is the timeline between the existing contract and the time that they're going to execute any kind of work that was added to, it wasn't approved during, when they were at the site doing work, there wasn't a change order produced at that point. I don't know. So really what we're talking about, let me just ask this, because I don't know anything about change orders. Okay. Work was started in the summer and fall and we knew that sometimes it couldn't be finished until the spring and they had gotten a bid based on your review of the bid and it was going to cost $250,000. Then they may say, well, we're finishing up in the spring but the price of gravel has gone up and so have we give raises to everybody. So it's actually going to be $275,000 change order. You anticipate that that's, or you know because you're in this business that that happens on regular basis. Yes. Okay. So the question is then, is FEMA okay with these change orders as just a practice that we do? Like that we accept every change order from a contract that we've already engaged in. We may need to extend the contract but we don't have to go out to bid. Is that what this is about? Hold on, Peter. Yes, sir. Basically, yes, but I think in all fairness, somebody's got to ask FEMA and hey, writing is the best way to get it improved. Yeah, and my opinion is that it sounds like Steve's already talked with them about it and it's an odd issue. So getting it in writing is a way to show anybody down the line that we mentioned that and they said yes. Yeah. Peter. So I was just going to say as a comment and this is mostly building construction, not road construction, but I've been involved over the years with a lot of construction projects and the practice I've seen out there in the industry unless there's some outrageous difference like the original contractor hasn't been able to perform or who knows, something like that, that routine trade change orders would be approved with the same contractor. And I also think that's the most efficient way to do it. I agree 100% with Randy that we need to get confirmation from FEMA and we should get it in writing that they agree to this method because if they all of a sudden turn around and say, oh no, you should have put it out to bid so we won't reimburse it, that would be bad. So, Vic, do you understand what you're gonna communicate to Steve and he's gonna contact the FEMA rep to ask these questions? Yeah, I mean, I do, I talked to him tonight and then of course he won't be back until what, the second of March? 29th, 29th, it's back in town. Do they need a sign? We'll be an elbow first, okay. Can you just, can I move on with that thought just a little bit? Yep. So, in our, we got a lot of questions, we got a lot of contractors that are interested in work. Okay, you're not allowed to talk about it. Why? I think the bids are out and they need to be returned sealed before the board, that's why. Say that last part again, please. The bids are out, they are, and they, you have a deadline of March 12th, when the seal bids will be overed. At a select board meeting. So, I'm not affecting the seal bids, what I'm saying? I'm just saying be careful, please. Okay. Okay, good. So, lots of contractors are interested in work. Yeah, so there's a lot of questions that I can't answer. I don't think Eric can answer and one of the question is, how are we gonna handle train orders? Right. Oh, that's an actual question that they asked. So, what's gonna happen is we're compiling all these questions and we're gonna put those questions all out to all the contractors answered, so that all the contractors can see what the questions are and see the answers. Well, we have to answer at some point. Right, so we're gonna have kind of the first of March or second of March, should we do that? We're gonna have to pay, yes. Okay, yep. All right. Are you doing a site visit with them? I brought a couple around already. Just to show them the road, you can't see anything. Yeah. Ready? I would just suggest that if this is a question that we feel like we can't answer, it's a perfect time if we're already going to them to ask this question and get their approval on this. It's the perfect time to get the answer from them to say, this is how you need to handle it and develop the answer for the contractors. Okay. And now on that same topic of the thing with it, are we getting into where we might be liable for something? I don't know, I've said something about it a couple of times to Eric, but he still doesn't. Is I don't think that we should be going around with it. I think that we should have a free bid meeting. Yeah, that's what I thought. That's what I was having. Have one meeting with everybody. Everybody. All the time. And then the guy can't come back. Well, jeez, so and so told me that. No, I agree. I think that that's what. That's fine. We're gonna do that. I thought Michelle did. Okay. No, that's what I was asking. Is there a date that is set that you invite anyone who wants to bid? There is not one right now. Okay. But maybe we should pull them in. I think that would be a good idea. Would we do anything to that? That'd be great. Michelle, did you have a question? No, okay. We thought maybe your hand was on there. Oh, I'm very theatrical. Sorry. I just noticed that Zoom, if you raise your physical hand, it's notices and does the virtual hand. Oh. It does, but yours did not do that. So, okay. So, you, and this is for like all the, like, I don't even know what the bid looked like, but I mean what the request was, but you would have a date than you would say. We can come up with that. Okay. Easily. All right. So we're not move, we're not gonna take any action on this, right? We don't need a motion for Steve to contact FEMA, but I think that it would be helpful. He gets back on the second. Yeah. So, or the first, is that, is that enough time? Yeah. He gets back to 2019. He's available starting the first. Okay. And is that enough time for you? We can, we'll, yes. We will get stuff together. So, hopefully by the meeting after that, when he gets back, we would have some more information, right? Definitely. Okay. But not asking these questions because we're worried about the bids aren't being open. Yeah, boy. Work on it. No, I said because we are. Yeah. They agree with me. They, the problem, the issue is, I'm sure that there's going to be quite a lot of discussion with the select board after, and we've got to do it. We've got to, we've got to, we've got to hash this stuff out. There's a lot of, there's questions that are, I'm not surprised that we won't be in, you know, be libel for this. How's our liability insurance, Peter? Lived for what, Vic? Carefully addressed by the League of Cities and Towns. Okay. I don't understand why you, why you think we would be libel, Victor. Libel for what? I don't understand. For not being, we're not, we're not, this idea that these, these contractors are used to working with people that have plans, they have specs, specs, well, the plans, they know what, what it's going to happen, where it's going to happen. And we don't know that. We don't, we know it, but they don't. And there's no, there's no plan. There's no description that really shows you. I thought that that's what happened when you put out a bid. You explained like what, how, how would they know what to, how would they know how much to bid? If they didn't, they would just come up with a number of. Steve came up with numbers from estimating numbers. Right. And that's what he put down for them to bid on. We don't have specific, okay, you need 10 loads at this location, 15 loads at this, we don't have that. Because. We did an overall number for the road. Yeah. And that's, but they don't know that number, do they? We have to show them the areas to do it. Okay, but my question is we don't give them that number. Isn't the whole point of a bid for us to see who comes in at the best rate for that job? Well, no, the state usually gives a quantities, an estimated. Oh, number versus price. Okay. Yes. Okay. So are you saying, Vic, that we are doing this, we're not being helpful to the people who want to bid because we're not providing enough information? Kind of. Okay. But how can we be more helpful? Having a better bid process? Yeah. Okay. Well, it would probably. Like, is there a sheet or something we can use? Engineers to do that. Yes, Sarah. Exactly. That horse has left the table. What's that? That horse has left the table. Well, I was just gonna say FEMA probably has like a template or something. Okay. And so we're not using that template. I don't know. Okay. So maybe we should start using the template for part two. 2024. I mean, otherwise we don't know, right? I mean, does that make sense to you? I mean. That's correct. You know, and I hate to say this, but it's kind of like you are not, I shouldn't say I have fallen this way, but it's like this building is being built. I assume when this building gets built, there'll be a detailed plan of what's gonna be done, what the contract is going to be. We don't have that. Okay. Maybe we should hire a consulting or an engineering firm to do this. And along with that. For the FEMA Reds. For the FEMA Reds. And along with that, I think as has been pointed out, I use this building and it's an analogy that they hire a project manager that makes sure they do what we say they're gonna do. Okay. But to me, it sounds like if there's a FEMA template and Steve understands the roads, Steve could fill out this template. Can I just? Yes. I think what big is saying is, maybe we need an engineering study on our roads. Maybe what we need to do is for here, go seek procurement, get an engineer and do an engineering studies on the roads. We get exactly what every road needs. And we'll have all those details. Then with those engineering studies, then we go out to bed with the information on the engineering studies. Does that make sense? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Then instead of the health or skeleton way we're doing it. I don't think you have time to do that. You're gonna be hard pressed to get an engineer to do that. Well, Steve said that tonight. It won't be done this summer. It won't be done. No. And we're in a deadline. All this stuff is supposed to be submitted by a certain date. Yes, it is. We don't have time for that. Anyway. Okay. Will the site visit help? I mean, these contractors, if they all go out to a site, visit, are they gonna have a better understanding of what's needed? Probably the problem we run into right now is you can't see anything. Because it's snow. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I don't, we got a lot of questions in there. I don't, can everybody read? Can I have a select board read the questions? I give you some idea. I can borrow them all. Yeah. I don't know why that information isn't, it's all public information. Well, the question's just been coming to me. Well, technically I think the question. Yeah. How long do you think it would take to procure an engineering firm to set an RFP out for engineering firms and bring that whole process and have that done with all the roads? How long do you think that would take? It would take months, I would tell. So we should have done that back last fall, right? Yeah. But would Pima have paid for that? Yeah. Oh, well, but the reality too, was that we had roads that had to get repaired, right? Because you couldn't travel on them. There was that piece. That was the urgency. Yeah. Okay, so you're, and now we're saying there's a disaster deadline, like the disaster happened. There's a deadline by which all this stuff has to be done and it's too late to do that. So if there is, so if we're not going to do that, is there something that we could do that's better than what we're doing now? Moving forward. I don't know. I haven't really. I think just having. Yes, Peter. So does it make sense? And I realized we've already put the request for bids out there, but does it make sense to have a meeting before the bids are open and say, you know, we're going to go out and I understand there's snow on the ground and everything else, but we can at least show you where the project is. You can get some deep, better idea of what it is. We're going to go to FEMA and get all the questions answered before the bids are due, hopefully. And if you choose to amend your bid, you can. But just so we get the best information out there for them to submit a bid. We do have the clause in that, in that proposal that the out of middle sex may accept or reject all bids. So we don't have to. We do not have to award anything. Is there time to do that, Eric? Is there time for us to get the answers from FEMA? And we'll have to schedule. We'll have to work on scheduling a site visit with every contractor at the same time. Yeah. Over everything at the same. So they all have the same exact answers. Sarah, and then we can also ask for an extension. You can ask for an extension of the whole project. That's right. Okay. Ready? I would suggest that it's not just a site visit, but an informational visit. Yes. Here, starting here first. Yeah. So that questions can be answered. I know that when we do this at buildings, you know, you get all the contractors there, somebody sees something on site that somebody hadn't thought about or whatever, or says, Hey, can we do this instead of this? You know, and just recognizing that just because you put something on paper doesn't mean everything's captured. And that meeting allows you to have with all of the potential bidders that are interested right then and there to potentially make a change to the specification that you've asked for or add something to it before the bid deadline is due. And everybody has the same information at the same time. That's important. So I would just suggest that it's an informational meeting and not just a site walkthrough. Perfect. Okay. It would be handy too. I think, Randy, if you've had the time, maybe to attend as well. I don't know. It's just be nice to have someone else on the select board. I know you're on the select board, but just I would have less understanding what I was hearing about. Okay. So we're not, we don't have to make a motion of that. You have not given us any general updates on the highway department. Is there anything that you'd like to share about what's going on? There's nothing wrong with so far. Okay. Your trucks are all in order. Okay. And Vic, do you have some things to want to say about the judge? Yeah, I mean, it's obvious that you read front porch forum or anything. How bad the assembly is against our town of roads. I mean, I guess, I don't know. But anyways, we're having a meeting. All right. That's seven o'clock for the town with the planning commission. And Sandy is going to see if this planning commission is going to do some work on the roads. Okay. I also reached out to our legislators about general funds that might be available. Yes, you did. And so I think that... What did they say? I don't remember, Vic. I have to look on my phone. I have all these emails back. I couldn't figure it out. I'm sorry. It's the IRJA funds. Anyway, I don't want to talk about that now. No, okay, you're right. But at any rate, there could be funds. Would you mind just before going to be saying anything, would you make sure that we do the portal road per head? Yes. So we need to consider an access permit for John McCann on portal road action likely. As if is it right here, Eric? Any things you want to talk about on this? No, it's pretty straightforward. Okay. I'm not going to need it, hopefully. Okay. It's not going to accept the knowledge right now. Okay, so is there a motion? Okay. Vic has motion that we accept this five-way permit, access permit on portal road. Is there a second? Randy seconds it. All those in favor of approving the access permit? I have a lot of questions. Yeah. So my understanding is, and I'm not sure I've got this right, but this is going to be the access to a on-yet permitted event space. Is that correct? Yes. The wedding? It's an access to a property right now. Okay. Wedding done. Right. But this isn't a driveway for residents. This is a driveway for an event space. But that has not been approved yet. That hasn't even been submitted yet. Yeah. Hasn't been submitted. Well, I'm asking and you know, I haven't looked at any of the paperwork, but I mean, we're taking into consideration that there might be, if all this gets approved, there might be considerable traffic. So sight lines, everything else that would be involved in the use of that for that has been taken into consideration. This is more than a residential driveway, right? Yes, Randy. So given that information, I guess one of the questions that I have is if they were awarded an event permit or whatever needs, whatever is going to come down the line and this access didn't meet the needs of that venue, do we have the room to request changes in this to accommodate? The room, I don't know. Basically making revisions to the permissions as part of that venue permit or whatever Peter's talking about here and requiring if they're going to be looking at two-way traffic coming out of something, making it so a part of a requirement for that would be an extension of the access and whatnot. I guess that's what I'm asking. I would think maybe that would happen when they applied for their construction. I mean, there's a lot that has to happen, I think, for this event space to be approved. I'm just concerned that we understand that this is more than a residential driveway and we've at least looked at it to see if it makes sense for having a considerable number of cars in a short period of time. And none of this, it might be that this never gets approved and it's not a question and maybe this isn't the time to consider this, I don't know, but once we, I think the short answer is once we approve this, they've got an access permit and they're going to use it for whatever they see fit. Chris McVeigh has a question. So I'm wondering if you just, if you can approve it conditioning that if this event goes through that this will be re-evaluated to ensure that there's capacity. So approve it, but conditioned on future events. I mean, at this point, that hasn't even been submitted. So this is all, right, this is all, like I'm hearing about this now. So I mean, I guess the question, is it even in our purview to say that we understand their expectations or anything but access to a property at this point? Yeah, I think so either. And everything else should be evaluated when that other venue permitting is brought to us. And that's why I asked the question is, could we then revise and make that a condition at that point to say, you've got to extend. But then I don't think that's the reason the S necessarily. So, yeah, there's a bunch of questions here. So I want to make sure everybody gets a turn to talk. Shelly, you have your hand raised. No, I'm just saying. Oh, here's Michelle and then Michelle, I'll call on you. So, the quick question I have, Sarah, is this the same person that said he was not going to be building on his property when he was in the office with me last week with the net? So shelly, that is the same person. That's the one who came with his lawyer. Yes. That's the same guy. OK, because my understanding is that you could not build anything on that property the way he was spoke with his lawyer. It is way, way, way, what the use of this property is way far down the road. So the Planning Commissioner, the DRB, will take into account all the things that all the factors you're bringing up. And with that experience, I have never known anybody to deny access to a property based on what may or may not happen. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Michelle, Johnston. No, Sarah said what I was going to say. OK, and Randall. So I had a chance to listen to John McCann's testimony to the House Committee on Agriculture, Food Resiliency, and Forestry that happened on Valentine's Day. And the transcript, the video transcripts, available online, you can look at it. But at one point in time, Mr. McCann stated that the driveway permit or the access permit had already been approved by the town of Middlesex. Those were his words in the testimony. So you might want to look at that. Thank you. It's way far field. OK, I mean, can I just say, who was that? That was Randall. It's a great phone. Randall, what's your last name? Joslyn. So yeah, my last name is Joslyn. Great, Joslyn. OK, this is not the venue for this. This is simply an access permit. Yeah, so we're just going to we're just going to move on with the agenda item, which is approving the access permit. Do I have a motion? Yeah, they moved in ready second. OK, any further discussion? OK, all those in favor of approving this access permit, say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. OK, great. All right. So thank you all for if you came for that reason. Thank you. So anything more about the highway before we move on? OK, so it's we're past our time. We are now at 6 PM. We're going to we're going to I know it's supposed to be 6 PM. That's all right. We are going to break for the BCA meeting. And then we will come back to do the middle sex fire department and the treasurer's report. So do we have any one? Online, that's on the BCA Theo looks like he is. Yeah, I know. All right. John is there. Oh, John's here. Hi, John. Hi. How are you? All right. I'm good. Thank you. So Theo, you are here. Is there anyone else on there that's on the BCA? Besides Theo online? Theo, are you? Oh, yeah, I see. Yeah, sorry. OK. Only Theo. OK. And Chris, you're here for the BCA. Yeah. Thank you. Sorry, guys. That's crazy. Yeah, I can jump from over there. Just got to sniff a bunch of bugs. I don't have that. That like is all right. I think so. OK, so we're calling the BCA meeting to order at 6 10. And who's here? Theo is on. Yeah, we've got Theo here and we have Chris. We have John Demeter. I forget who else is on it. Vic, Randy. Everybody. Peter, Liz, Derrinda. The gang's all here. Sarah Merriman. All right. So approving processing of March 5th, 2024 town ballots on March 4th, 2024, authorizing the town clerk, J.P. Derrinda Crowell, an assistant clerk, Shale Grandfield, to open signature envelopes containing the presidential primary town WCUUSD and CVCC ballots depositing the WCUUSD and CVCC ballots and separate secured locked ballot boxes and running the town and presidential primary ballots through the tabulator in town hall on Monday, March 4th. Actually, yeah, Monday, March 4th, action lately. OK, is there a discussion about this? OK, so, Chris, I just have a quick WCUUSD has people on it like to vote into the and as well as the budget. Yes, yes. OK, yep. And I was just going to say, is there going to be a change to that? There probably would be a change to the budget because chances are that the legislature is going to ask the legislation to take 45% cap and we'll move back the start time. I think it's probably going to be March 15th or April 15th. I think it's going to be the new vote date for the budget if that goes through. OK, so are the ballots already created with that number on it? I believe they are. And so then people will vote and they just won't be counted. They will. OK, so they'll still use that same piece of paper with. With the other information. With the names of the people and stuff, OK. All right, any other discussions? OK, is there a motion? I move. OK, Sarah moves and Chris seconds. All those in favor of approving the processing of March 5th, 24th, have held to March 4th. Say aye. Aye. Aye. OK. Thank you. All right, so March 5th, 2024 presidential primary town school voting approval of the following ballot clerks for the March 5th, 2024 town meeting by Australian ballot in Romney School. Jane Tucker, Betsy Davis, Joanne Mancoff, along with any middle sex voters selected by the town clerk. I already have a confirmation from Susan Warren and Paul Ness. OK, or anyone else that may come before you. All right, any questions or discussion? OK, is there a motion? I'll make a motion. OK, Dorinda moves. Who seconds? OK, Chris seconds. All those in favor of the March 5th, presidential primary town school voting, say aye. Aye. Aye. OK. And then next appointing J.P. Dorinda Crowell and Cheryl Grandfield as assistant election officials for all 2024 elections, including the March 1st. It should be March 5th. March 5th voting, action likely. Any discussion? OK, is there a motion? Randy moves. Is there a second? I'll second. OK, Peter had seconded. All those in favor of J.P. Dorinda Crowell and Cheryl Grandfield as assistant election officials for all 2024 elections, say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. OK, designating BTA members to the following assignments. So we've got names. But we need four people to volunteer. So 7 p.m. to 8 p.m. that's election night. So 3-5. 5-volunteers. Theo does. OK, and who else? I guess I'll volunteer. Liz. John, do you want to volunteer? I'm afraid I'm out of town now. Oh, John. Oh, how convenient. OK. Chris, do you want to volunteer? I'm fine. I think it'll be easier. Oh, you can do it. OK. Vic, do you want to volunteer? Can I run up cold? What? You're going to have COVID. Come on. I need to volunteer. Randy? Can you do the bell? I guess you can. You're JD. Even though you're not out of town. What happened to Jan? Jan is in South Africa for a wedding. And she said, and I quote, sign me up for anything. OK, Jan. So we need one more person. So we have four persons. We don't have John. Vic has COVID. What is the results we have? Chris can't do it, we said. Chris is going to take the bell. Berynda, would you like to do it with us? Well, I'm going to be there one way or the other. OK, so we're putting down Berynda. Whatever. OK. And that's from 7 to 8. Yes. OK. I'd also appreciate anybody who wants to come volunteer to help with the ballots on election day, the industry. So it's a good way. It just occurred to me that it's possible that town meeting will still be happening at 7. Correct. So maybe I shouldn't be somebody. But somebody has to, there might be, I don't know. I mean, this could go on. Well, I'll have to hear Sarah. I'm a little confused. Aren't we talking about March 5th? Yeah. OK. So do you need other volunteers at other times during the day, Sarah? If you're available, I wouldn't say no. But you have to be a PCA. No, I'm talking for reasonable. So to count the ballots, I would prefer to have PCA members because I think you guys have all your JPs who've taken O's. It shouldn't take too long to do all what we're going to do. About Mary Skinner. She's not here. No. So anyway, we'll talk later. OK. OK. So just put on Tuesday night on March 5th. We need people to go through the ballots and make sure that they're what the drill is. So maybe we make a motion that we have these people and anyone else that may come before to do the ballot counting. Yeah, that's fine. But what about this? How about the PCA members for Thursday night, for Tuesday, for the March 5th? We have Theo and we have maybe you. Jan. Jan is where I think we should have. It's possible that I could, but it's very. You've got to really. There's an event that if it happens, I cannot be. I see. OK, it's still possible. But it doesn't have to be a BCA member like Larry could do it. Yeah, we could just we'll just swear them in. Oh, OK, perfect. So someone could be sworn in. All right. So for now, we're going to do these four people with potential for other people to be thrown in. Is there is there a motion? No, we don't need a motion. OK. Well, we do need we can only have JPs transport ballots. OK, who's the JP going to transport? Chris and who else? Jan. OK, don't you think she said sign up for anything? And then CBCC ballots. I cannot I cannot be there that day. So I need someone to take. Well, I'm working very well. Can you be there by 9 a.m.? I can try. I will. OK, it's. If it's just transporting, I can come. He gets a very far earlier than I do. Let me just you have to transport. You have to stand there while they run them through the. It really should be a JP. I agree with that early for you. Oh, God, no, it's not. I think it's up to the crack of God. So do we need a motion for these designating BCA for all these? You have to get these all. OK, so so that's going to be Jorinda on three seven. Yeah, OK, I did any other matters that may come before the Middlesex Board of Civil Authority? No, I've got an interesting situation just going to run by really quickly. I a certain person has died. Oh, who was sent absentee ballots? Who sent what was sent one and that absentee ballot may be winging its way toward us before we decide to run it through the tribulator or not. What do I do? Oh, they voted and then they died. They voted and then they died. Well, you know, this happened to my father and I think it's not allowed. I'm pretty sure you can't count the vote of the dead person. I know, I know. I just I'm getting into the beef. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I read what yeah, took a BCA meeting and that's what they said. Well, we find Chicago rules or Middlesex rules. That's all I want to know. Thank you very much. Yes, I think I. Yes, I have to go here. OK, there. Do you need any help on Election Day at any of those shifts or you're covered? I'm going to say yes, because I always need help. So I started seven. Yeah, we'll start once I'll I'll talk later when I get my schedule worked out. OK, thank you. Just email and I'll try to volunteer for some of that. OK. Oh, you are. OK, all righty. So any other matters that may come before the board of civil authority at this very civil meeting has a question. Right. Who does there? Oh, yes, there. Sarah is going to say that one more time, the person voted they voted that they're about in the mail and then they died. Then they died. So they voted before they died. Yeah, but I don't believe it. It counts. I think voting day is not until the day now that that's why it doesn't count. They wouldn't be eligible to vote as of that day. Yeah. Right. So they don't get the votes. Don't get counted. You can mail them in. Right. They don't get counted. Convenience to mail in early. Yeah. All righty. So adjourned. We are adjourning the meeting at six twenty. OK, thank you. All righty. Now. Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks for coming, John. You do the rest of the meeting. You're welcome. Thank you. All righty. So we are back to our regular scheduled Blackboard meeting and we are now, I believe we finished with the Highway Department that right here. OK, so five thirty five. We're a little behind schedule. One. OK. We're at the monthly meeting of the Middlesex Volunteer Fire Department at six twenty. OK, so we've had nine calls to the last period. Sixteen total for the year. We did have a mutual aid in on one call. Our max response was nine members. So that's pretty good. Men is sticking at three and we've upped a little bit. We're four point seven for that which despite nine calls. You don't see the vehicles went out that often because due to the calls were responded to by P of E and to VSP graciously cancelled us before we even get on the road. Those are both on the VSP ones on eighty nine. So eighty nine was a popular thing this last week between vehicle accidents, vehicle fires. So when there was one, it was on the third of February. It was dispatch wasn't sure if it was us or it's not clear. So they responded to both of us and it ended up not being really anything. So as is many times on the interstate, people have their cell phones when they're driving by. Don't stop to see what's going on and keep up. But so this is nine calls. We're getting back in the more kind of the average of what we're getting that would have been the past. As far as the call that was mutilated in, it was a structure fire on Lower Sunnybrook. Waterbury came with their engine and tankers. We had our engines and tanker. My period came with their engine. Berlin came with their tankers. More time came with their tanker. Obviously, water is a thing. Lower Sunnybrook Road, the closest water asset to us is of Mount Peter hydrant. Well, that one we hit was frozen. The next one we hit was frozen. The third one right on cemetery curve work. So that was a little bit of an issue, but made for exciting thing. But being a trailer fire, those never turn out well. So it was a total loss. It's just a nature of trailers. So as far as training, we did vehicle driving, getting people spun up on all the vehicles. So it's not relying on a few repairs. We're still trying to figure out what the electric problem is on the tanker for the brake lights. And rescue one is the sensor issue. And if anybody's committed to emission control sensors, it can be problem. We did buy two new pages for the new two new people on the department so they can get calls. Basketball had a total of 11 calls. Some of those were medical inculcations. Any questions? We're exposed. Were any of the vehicle fires electric cars? No, they couldn't. Good. I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad to hear that. If your car catches on fire, let it get away. I felt. I believed me. I, along with the lithium battery thing, I saw Green Mountain Hours joining with some electrician to install the walls. My concern with those walls, number one. Power walls? Yeah. That we don't know they're in there. Number two, if the house were happened to catch on fire and it's not a result of the wall, it's just the house catching on fire. It'd be nice to know that there's one in there so we can protect that from going thermal. That's an interesting. I mean, I wonder if there's a way to like do perhaps some sort of query so that you guys as a volunteer fire department know which houses have those. I mean, if I were a homeowner and I had one, I would be happy to give that information to my volunteer fire department so that they knew so that if you did get a call, you know, you could check out your spreadsheet and see who has a power well or there's something maybe on the outside of the house that says this house has a power wall. That would be really nice. And maybe we should come up with a standardized sign. Yeah, something like that. I think that's a good idea. So then your yes, Peter and then I would just suggest the outside sign is the best approach because it might not be our fire department responding. Yes, perfect. I mean, it could be Worcester, could be Montpelier. And it could be this house has an electric car or this house has an electric power wall and then they know. OK, Zara. As somebody who used to sell labels, I'm going to recommend an inside window cling like they used to have back in the 70s and 80s children in this room or. Things like that so that it's not affected by weather. It's not covered up by the snow. It's in the window because obviously that's going to be installed in a garage or a home. Well, something we would want to have standardized. Yes, yes, the location is standardized. The sign is standardized. So when who ever rolls up and maybe it's a couple of years and those of us on the department aren't on anymore, it's still the same standard people know where we're going. And it should be something that's done community wide, not just in middle sex so that, you know, well, it's baby steps. I know, but we'll be the we'll be the trend setters. How about that? So you research that find out what kind of emblem we could put on have someone on the department. Awesome, yay. Yes, Steve. So I actually I actually worked for a solar company a couple of years back and I installed a lot of like Tesla power walls and and phased energy battery systems. And so it is in the state of Vermont, a standard requirement for like photovoltaic systems. So like your solar systems to have labeling on the outside next to your main means of disconnect to show that. And I think it would be a really easy thing for middle sex to ask a zoning ordinance to require the labeling for a battery backup system on that same means of disconnect outside as well. And that would be an easy solution for that. I think that way. So the fire department gets there. You're going to go for the main means of disconnect to shut the electricity off. I'd imagine in a lot of cases anyway. So you'd be able to see the labeling right there at the power source for the house. Actually, we call in the power company to disconnect. We don't we don't disconnect it. We call in the power company because we're not trained to do that. Our disconnect may not be. So I guess so even though even though that there's a disconnect requirement for emergency services on the outside of the house or somebody would like solar, some of you guys aren't actually allowed to flip that disconnect. You call the power company anyway. Call the power company to handle the power problems because we're not we are not trained to handle the power problems. So that's their value. It's just like on this fire on on the shady rail. There was a question whether the neutral line was grounding out onto the cable line and causing problems with another house, the next house up the road as a result of the fire. And so between the power company and the cable company, they determined that it wasn't grounding on the cable line. But apparently that's not an uncommon thing. So you leave that. The other thing you'd have in the sign on the disconnect area is for me as a responder, I'd rather have it where I roll up on the scene and see it as soon as I roll up. If I have to go around behind the house to find it in this type of this time of year, it may be a hard call to get around to see where the disconnect is. But if I see it when I roll up by the garage door on the front door or something, as soon as I roll up, I see it that that to me as a responder of the more application thing for us. Yes, Steve. Hold on. I'm looking up a contact's phone number for the Vermont electrical. What's Dennis's last name? I don't have Dennis's last name, but I believe he's taken over for as the head inspector for the state of Vermont. I can get that contact information to you if you want, because it probably benefited us to coordinate with the Vermont electrical board because they could help also pass some type of policy either for the town or at the state level as well. If we thought that was a good idea. Sure. Do you want to get that to Sarah and she'll get it to me? Yeah, I think that's great because these things are new. And I'm sure that people don't even think about the fact that somebody's house could burn down, right? And that this could be an issue. So that's great. Thank you for bringing that up. And thank you, Steve, for giving the information. So are there any other questions for the middle sex volunteer fire department? Yes. I have one quick question. Where do we stand with our old rescue? What we sold out and we stripped all the equipment out of it? Where? Where does that stand? Ready to park it in your driveway? Sure. Now we're waiting till spring till our fifth season is over and then bring it out to put it up for sale. But we've stripped all the everything we're going to take. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you for your service and thank you, your volunteers for our service. Alrighty, so now we're on to the treasurer's report, reviewing our projects for possible close out of the bus action. Before you get into the operations, Peter, do you have an update on those welcome park invoices? So the update is that the attorney has all the paperwork she requested and she's supposed to get back to us this week. So I'm hoping we will have an agreement that can be signed before March 15th or whatever the drop dead date is for the insurance and the other reports. Okay, so we still don't pay those three invoices? Right. She seemed to think that she could get it done pretty quickly. I just hate to pay those invoices and then have to go back and cancel the policy or do whatever or try and get the money back. Okay, so one invoice that is going to be, I believe paid by the developer, the manager of the phone company building. We've got to get through the process. Okay. Okay. Okay. Anything else before we talk about our projects? I think that's it. I think that's the minutes I gave you from April 20th to May 2nd. Yeah. Thanks, John. All right, so. Before Eric runs out the door, I want to mention which he pointed out tonight, that in last year's budget for the current year we're in. We appropriated $50,000 for gravel. Yeah, from aqua funds. So that has not come off of anything yet, but. Did we spend it? Yeah, but we did appropriate. So we have actually 50,000 less. So 295. 294. 907. So we gave 100,000 to CP fiber. 70,000 for air packs. We gave turnout gear. Or was it. We didn't do turnout here. We did air packs. That's not on here. Yeah. But it was 70,000. 70,000 to 70,000. Yeah. 70,000 for air packs. Yeah. We did. That's all we did. That's all we did. I thought we did. I thought we helped buy the rescue vehicle. Yeah. So that work was, we took all of our fun balances. That we had available, which included our performance. And our fun balance. And we use that to support the flood effort and also it paid for the rescue vehicle. So we didn't have to go out. And so it depends where you want to say you took it from. So that's what we did. It all goes to the same place. Right. I made that comment. Right. Well, if we gave them that, so that's, so we spent how much already? 180. 195. That's it. Is that right? I thought you said two something. So 95 is what's left approximately. Yeah. So that's what we did. We spent 1907 is what's left. $100,000 on CB fiber, $70,000 on air packs and $50,000 on gravel. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah. Oh yeah. 50,000. Right. So does that 294 include that 50. Yeah. Well, and stuff that we bought, did that come out of our phone? And we just took it out of the budget. It was half of what we, what we said. It gave me 2000 and I spent about a thousand. So we just took it out. But it was more than, it wasn't exactly 500. Was it the amount? It was 515. I know seven. It was 515. Yeah, something like that. Okay. So 515. So that 294 is after the 50,000. Yes. Okay. It's after all, all money. So essentially a 300,000 left. Okay. And we have to spend it by the date again. We have to allocate it by December 31. Okay. The recommendation from Vermont league and city in town is. It's a date. Just might as well. Putting them spent it. Um, we didn't. So we didn't remember the salary increases already implemented. We didn't need that from ARPA. So that's how you ever, so what you got to do is think about everything you spent money on so far and even want to allocate it. Yeah. Come out of opera funds or. And because it's all been money that's been expended. Yep. So if it's the rescue vehicle, if it's, you know, the money to for employee retention or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't think we have to decide tonight, but what are some. Are there, is there anything else that is that's on this list? Or that's not on this list that has come about. In our needs. That's not on here. So we didn't need the 30 K for town hall planning because that was covered. By just a couple of thousand is. Required for that. So we didn't need that. And. Did we spend 35 on the town garage? Nope. Eating system. Nope. We have a, we have a failing eating system. We better not. Well, Merb can help us with that. Okay. Yeah. But I thought. Merb. Merb wasn't going to even look at the. You're right. They're not going to the town garage. They're doing the fire department with that heating system. Yeah. But off the town garage. Yeah. Okay. But there are some, I know that there are some like really super low interest loans for energy resilience for municipalities that are different from Merb. That we could potentially. Utilize they're not out yet, but for something like that, that as opposed to. Pay for it. Yeah. But why would you want to pay interest on money? You've got sitting in the bank that's not earning an interest. Well, in case we wanted to spend this on something else. And we knew that there was a long. So. The other thing that jumped out at me here that I've kind of forgotten. Is. You know, we've got a hundred and. Well, depending on how you look at it. $130,000 of money dedicated to the town hall. We're going to know a lot more after the town meeting vote where we're going with the town hall and whether we're going to be able to. Get that money from Merb or whether we need to make renovations to our existing town hall or what we're going to do. So I think that's going to have a lot to say about how and where the money goes. Yeah. That is a good point. We could maybe save some to reduce the amount that we would need to. Borrow if. Yeah. We don't need to decide tonight. I mean, but I'm just saying that's one reason to defer any kind of decision as to wait until after that vote. That's a big enough project and the loan is extended for a period of time where I feel like it makes less impact. There than it would for more immediate needs, more short term. Lightning that we might be looking at. Yeah. Okay. So we have to file an opera report by March 31st. So if we're going to claim this. The balance of the money that's sitting in the fund, it's got to be by that time. Otherwise you'll have to. It will be the following. Is there any reason like at one point you and I talked to, and we had gone through some of those seminars that. There was a lot of suggestion about just claiming it. The amount of money that we got was allowable to just claim under like general services. I mean, like, why not just do it that way and get it off from our. Yeah. And we can, we can utilize this money. However we need to. You know, it essentially moves the fund balance, right? In that case. And then no matter, there's no timeline ticking on when we have to make this decision. Or, you know, we can, we can allocate the money out of the fund balance to do whatever it is we feel like we need to do when that time comes. Whether it's, whether it's. The conversation about the excavator or gravel or, you know, the heating system for the town, town garage or whatever. I mean, it just seems like that's the path of least resistance and gives us the most flexibility. Yeah. Peter. I agree with that, Randy. I say we go ahead and allocate it. I just want to keep. Keep track. Keep track. Keep track. Of how we're spending it. I don't want it to disappear out into the cloud and we, we forget about it or forget what it is. I just want to be careful how we spend that money. But yeah. So I say allocated, get that. Report in and then we've got that closed out. We've got the money. Yes, Sarah. If we allocated, put it in the general services, do we have to be careful? I know money is fungible. But do we have to be careful about what we use it for? Like, we can't, isn't there something I'm paying back debt? There was like almost no restriction to that category, given the money that we. We can't use it to reduce debt. But you could use it. I mean. I mean, you could just say you used it towards the blood and be done with it. Right. You know, you certainly are spending more than what's left on the blood. And so, I mean, that would be like one, one line, you know, we spend it on the blood and you'd be done with it. But the money would still be there in the fund balance. But. So does that, is that something that you feel comfortable writing in like that you're able to do that? Like on this report, let's do this. Well, if you want me to do it, I mean, I'm not going to do it unless you want me to allocate all of it to something generalized like that, you know, general. I would make a motion. Don't do that. Can we do that even though it's not worn? Yeah, I guess we can. It is. It is worn. And it's just, you know, we'll just. Yeah. Obligate it. Okay. Obligate. Clarification. I do that. I don't know what that means. Does that mean toward the flood? No. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate. We allocate the remaining ARPA funds. That haven't actually been spent. I mean, they may have been committed, but they haven't been spent. Um, To a general category so we can close out the whole. General operation. General services. Don't do blood just in case they're like, Oh, being a son. To allocate to general service. Yeah. Yeah. So Peter made that motion. Is there a second? All right. There's a second from Vic. Oh, any further discussion? Should I use the big dollar figure that we have? Yes. Well, there's actually three, four. So there's actually three, 44, 907 that hadn't been reported yet, but, but 50 of that we know was towards gravel, but we still can take the whole amount. Yeah. But so what's the number I should use in this motion? Um, We have a number for 44, 907, 34, 4907. Thank you. All righty. And one other thing before I sign this thing for the watershed, did you guys read all the, all the details? No, we haven't finished. We have to finish the search. Oh, okay. Did anyone second that? Uh, there was a second from Vic. And then we were, is there any further discussion? You have to question. Okay. None. All those in favor of passing the spending of the remaining ARPA funds for general services, say aye. Aye. Okay. The ayes have it. It is passed. Derrinda. Okay. Back to this watershed contractor agreement or whatever. Besides the same scale of the 25% or whatever. Yeah. There was all of, there was other stuff in there that about dates and things. It makes no sense. So, but you're all good with all that to just go ahead. Well, I think he's going to send us another copy in a week or so. Right. Well, they've actually had to sign this. Oh, that's. Okay. That's not. That's what I, okay. Well, we talked about earlier in this meeting was signing this. And then he would issue an amendment with the changes that we talked about. No, it's got to be signed by the treasurer. Okay. Can we see it again? Yeah. But there was dates that it had to be completed by things like that. So on like the last page. Yeah, I don't know if I talked to completion dates. Didn't he also say that they can extend the condition dates or can I make that up? Yeah, he said basically at any point in time before deployment, we can walk away, but. Yeah. I think it's estimated permits. Obtaining permits is estimated by July 30th of 2024. Complete quality assurance plan. Estimated July 30 of 2024. Solicit bids. Estimated September 30 of 2024. Award construction contracts estimated. Of October 15, 2024. Date of completion of construction January 9th of 2025. And close out of activities estimated 120 days. So these are estimates. I mean, that seems reasonable that you could get the construction completed by January, the beginning of January of 2025. If bids came through inappropriate timeframe. You have any concerns with that? Okay. Yeah, they're going to, they're going to want to be done before things start to freeze. So, yeah. 459,800. But this is where that's going to be amended the budget. Right. But we still, um, yeah. You'll still have to come up with $459,000. Probably not all at once by the sounds of it, but yeah. We have a net 30. Right. The contractor, he's saying he can get us paid within two weeks. Yeah. That'll, that'll give us the cash flow. Theoretically, we should come up with anything. All right. I just wanted to make sure you were aware. Okay. Um, Alrighty, we're still behind schedule just to tad. Um, I've lost my agenda. Is this it? Yeah, I heard it. No, this is the DCA. Thanks. Um, okay. So, uh, orders. They are. Okay. Correspondence, Sarah. Any correspondence? I don't think I got any correspondence either. Did you get some correspondence? I don't know how you do. I just saw his hand up. No. I don't think we did. We got some correspondence from our attorney, but that's not something to discuss. Okay. Peter, did you get any correspondence? No, just, just, we want to, we want to say about a little bit about what happened that our FEMA. FEMA meeting, Sarah, quickly. Everything has changed here. Everything has changed as of today. Everything changed again today. But in a good way, in a good way. Well, it's just we're, we're gone with calling every culvert, a damage inventory. We're just, we're just submitting the invoices as whole and seeing if, if Washington buys them that way. Progress. Yep. Rules may change tomorrow. Right. Okay. So is there any other matters that come before the board? I just want to say one thing about March 5th, March 5th is going to be your first slide forward meeting of the month, but it's also going to be town meeting. So do you want to pose, we should have a sensational meeting on March 12. Yep. And then there is Cheryl seems to think that we need to sign orders on March 5th, but that may be not necessary. Yeah. It's a person third usually, but we're making it. And by the way, this is Darynda's left. No, it isn't. Because she's going to keep coming as a guest. So if this is to render this last day as treasurer. No, no, no, this is certainly not. Yeah. I would like to publicly acknowledge you to render it for your amazing treasurer service for how many years? Tell us. Seven. Seven years. And, but you were on our select work for how long? It's all the town. Nine years, I think. Okay. Nine years, right? You have given up your soul. And your heart. You have given up your soul in very important ways and you are extremely diligent. And responsible. And it will be hard to replace you during that. And I'm serious. And I just want to say thank you for your service because it's not easy. And you have been dealing with us through COVID. Through floods. The dark of night. The dark of night. Yes, Peter. I think it would be really appropriate to say something at town meeting. Have you, have you seen the town report yet? You probably haven't. There's a beautiful. I've read it online. Yes. Very nice. Do you want to say anything? Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Rick. All your service. Yep. Oh, don't say. I'll tell you. I'm just going to start crying. Thank you. No, let's give to. I don't know how many years. You and I have been working together, but it's been a lot of years. Hey, I think it goes back to the 80s. Well, I. Keep helping a little bit with like. Don't forget. Oh, and BCA. Yeah. Great. I mean, and who knows, maybe someone will write you in. I've already rallied the troops. Alrighty. So is there any other matters that come before this fine board? Yes. Eric and I have a meeting with. Sharon Borg. The stream operation guy. Okay. About. A complaint of a washed out head wall on Norton road. And we went up and looked at it last week. Now we have to meet up. The only culvert. That was put in. On Norton road. It's almost to the end where we turn around. It's a four foot culvert. It goes into the. North branch. And it just watched out a little bit on the sale. But we're going to. See if we can, we have blocks and we'll want to see if we can just build a head wall. So we're going to bring that up. And then we're going to. Push for. The permit. Clean out around the bridge. So I call it Hill road and brook road. And then we're going to. We're going to. We're going to. I'll just. Mention that before we're going to be doing the next. A couple of weeks. I'll be going to that. Planning commission. Meeting. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And. Eric and I have a webinar tomorrow. On. How to build a new town garage. Really. Out of pay bills. Yeah. Straw. Straw bills. Okay. Any other matters that come before the board. Already. It is 6. 51. Oh no. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. And this meeting. Is adjourned. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you.