 Nice. A couple of comments for items on the agenda, additions or changes to the agenda. You got here on Zoom. Can everybody here on Zoom? Give us a thumbs up if you can hear how we can hear. How is muted. Yeah. Come on. Yes. What's that? Okay. So we're getting started. I just wanted to review. With the select board. That I attended the planning commission's. Public informational meeting on the changes to the town plan. And. And reviewing the timeline. If folks in the audience could please not talk. That would be really helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's really distracting and then it also affects them. The select board is going to need to hold a public hearing. Somewhere around. November 22nd. So we'll make it coordinate with one of our. And I would like to suggest that we ask the planning commission to. Someone in the planning commission. To review. The changes and so forth with the select board and anybody that shows up to our publisher. That makes sense. Okay. Is Sandra. Oh, the warrants are circulating. Sandra, are you on. Yes. Yes. Right. You are up. Let me go to the, hopefully Katie has done such a fantastic job. Chargers report should be here. All right, let me go back and look. Okay. Can you, can you attack? You go into your zoom program and that way you'll be on the screen too. There we go. We don't have camera. Okay. Sandra, take it away. Hi, everybody. Did you all have a chance to review the report? Were there any. Questions or is that, does anything stick out. That you'd like me to talk about. Okay. The first quarter of the year is not really a good indicator of where we're going to be by the end of the year, but we are. On target for the most part and expenses and in revenues. So it's promising. Tax collection is going very well. So for the one parcel, we have been concerned about. I have sent a certified. Mail return receipt. Return receipt requested bill. The tax parent question. Has not picked it up. And the letter has come back. Now. No mail. I have been returned to the office and deliverable. The 2021 tax bill. Which is not. And the first payment hasn't been made on that. So at this point. Recording in progress. So I'm not sure. I'm still on. Am I still on? I'm still on. I'm still on. I'm still on. I'm still on. I'm still on. There's a message on my screen. Hang on. So I think it's up to the board at this point in time. My recommendation would be that this parcel needs to be. Sent to the attorney for collections. It meets all of our policy. Requirements. No contact. Not picking up mail. No payments. We're not on that list. The board is a senior and we just can't seem to locate anyone who knows her. You might want to make one last. Effort if the board decides to actually send someone. Social services or whatever. Out to see if this person is there. Otherwise, really. The parcel. go to the attorney for collections. I'm sorry to say that, but at this point there's no participation on the other side. I think I can find out whether that person is there or not. I don't think I want to say the name out loud right now, but I think I have a way to find that person is actually there. So I'll make a note to check. Yeah, no one else has returned to us. So that is basically it in a nutshell. Are there any questions? If we're not going to take action on that one right now, are we going to discuss it again at our next meeting? Yeah, well hopefully we'll find out if there is a contact that we can make and see if this person is okay. I'll have to do it later. So moving through your report, I did have a couple of questions. Is that all right? Oh sure. Okay, on the first page it says in the second paragraph it says we are not starting out the year over budget. Is that a good thing that we're not over budget or what does that mean? Yes, yes, yes. Because the expenses are just a tip over the 25 percent mark and we're at the first quarter of the year. But the point there is that we have a number of one-time expenses that- Reason. But budgeted such as debt payments, buyer and ambulance payments. Well, that's the beginning of the fiscal year and therefore skew the expense picture, but the expenses are not over budget. All right, then I had another question on page five of the report. Remind me about the social services agencies. Do they send us an invoice to to receive the money or does that automatically get paid? Remind us how that works. Most of them do not send invoices and so for those who do not, they are paid in December at the conclusion of our tax collection effort, but there are a few who go to the trouble of sending us invoices and we put them on order and pay them. They've been approved at town meeting. Okay, well, method. It would automatically get paid at the end of December. Somewhere in the tax collection. Yes. All right, that was that question. And then I think I have one more. I guess I didn't. Nice, well done. As always, anybody else have questions? The treasurer? No, thank you. Okay. Anything else, Sandra, that you'd like to share with regard to the treasurer or the tax collector? No. We love good. Great. I do. Just a moment with the draft audit is sitting on my desk at this point in time. There were a few extraneous questions that came in over the last week. They've been answered. And I think I'm about ready to approve it, which means that the auditors will be asking to meet with the board and over the next, I guess, in November. Well, let us know so we can get them on the agenda. All right. Next is the Board of Hall Association has asked for their final payout on the conservation commission fund that we had, you know, we said we had paid out in two different installments. So they sent, here is the, here's the request. The final installment of $10,000 in the conservation fund. And their architect, Ryan Edwards, sent a letter that I'm sure you've all reviewed. So objection or would somebody like to make a motion? Is there someone here from the Royal Hall? I don't see anybody. We can't see everybody. I saw this letter. I'll move the payment. Can we approve the payment? All right. Is there any further discussion? All right. All those in favor, please say aye. Any opposed? Very non-emotional carry. Very good. Next up, I think Jeremy is on here somewhere. Well, maybe not. I asked him if he had, I just told we made an arrangement quite some time ago, folks. Remember to have the treasurer and the town clerk have time on the agenda at our last meeting of the month. So I just wanted to make sure that we followed through on that. So moving along. Next up is Mr. Road Commissioner. You want to join us? Big nose for today as the chipper has arrived. Has arrived. Does it look like what you hoped you would buy? Yes. Yes. Well, I see a sample before I hear it. Is it the same thing you saw? It is. Yes. Yes. Very nice. Yeah. You want to put it to work? I have not yet. That's going to take a bit of time. Yeah. There's some getting. All together, right? You don't have to put it together. Oh yeah. It's all together. Yeah. It just needs, you know, to get used to the functions. And it's sort of like going up and down. When it idols up and when it doesn't, and how fast it goes and all that. So there's a little bit of figuring out there, but new toy to play with. Yeah. But we will be putting it to work this fall, of course, ma'am. What's our, just out of curiosity, what's you thought the top of your head know the warranty period? I believe it's a year. Yeah. Where do we store it? We don't get any piece of equipment like that. Do we have a place to store that under cover? We really don't. We really need to put up something, a pull barn or something for because we are, I mean, right now we've got one greater set up a winner. Yeah. There's generally one crop that's in the cold storage. It's got a roof over it, but it's not warm. So we are, we are sort of outgrowing the dry space that we have available there. Is there room to extend it? I think that's pretty constrained. That's safe, right? Yeah. So you couldn't really add on to the building, but you could add another building, I think, you know, across or out and back where we store it. Yeah, to put up just a cold storage shed, something of that nature. Another thing to think about, I don't know how far down this road we want to go, but Well, it's not on the agenda, but No, no, but just in the conversation, McCullis might be interested in selling us a little bit of land from their piece that would add to ours would allow us for more space. Yeah. You know, but maybe at some point come back to us. Well, yeah, that's not the thing that I'm even getting to. Right now we got issues to resolve looking at the winter and firing. So where do we have to come out with the road contingency plan? Did you have something in writing for us? Yes, I did. I have copies for y'all. Okay. Uh, it's, it's very preliminary. And you guys can I also have a list of all the roads that I would propose to not do in the event that we don't have three people. We may not do it all or do it at a different time. Do it at a different time, right? But I don't think we can do not do any of the roads. Right. But because we get state aid from the state. We don't want the state coming down on us. Yeah. But we can, we can sort of put them on at a later time in the day. Just go back around and okay for the buses are done. I'm surprised Ben from always wanted you. Well, I sort of focused on the dead end road. Okay. Anything that are that is through that goes from one road to another. I see. From a town to another town. I don't feel like we should really second them. Hang on though. I'm we're getting ahead of you, but I want to circle back that these are not all dead ends. No, but you can explain. You can explain. Yeah. Okay. So why don't you explain to us your plan? Well, can we just so so the current status is like status quo if we have full staff, right? Can we want Alfred as we as what we have right now is for or drivers for operators or process what that's status quo. That's what we've always had. So in the event that we only have three that is sick, one of our other guys are sick. That's when we go with the possible situation. Yeah. I mean, this is not complete. It's a staff and that's what you asked me to do. No, I get that. So, so we have Tyler and Bruce and Bruce and then Ed is the temporary part time. Okay. So you're including yourself for you. That was kind of where I was getting stuck. Oh, yeah, I drive a truck. Yeah. So I take them on. So less important roads or holes as you call them. So this with this list. So putting aside, I go ahead. Yeah, I just want to give out for the chance to explain before we start asking a bunch of questions. Go ahead. Right. So having only three drivers, it's our rodeos are going to be more like eight hours instead of six. And that and that is based on doing the whole town. Right. So minus these, that's us doing all these roads that are on the list. Oh, okay. If we don't do all those roads, we can bring it back to six hours. I mean, if you do them later, if I do them later. Yeah. And the question would be too, it's like what, obviously, you know, there's someone who addresses how many hours can you, to get your crew safely drive, you know, in, what is that service period before you got to be rested? Well, it's in our road to road policy, which I think we probably need to revisit just to refresh everybody. Right. Yeah, that would be so something for round two is setting up one of the assumptions. So one assumption is that we can fly with our safety standards existing in the, yeah, you won't want to say the one for the record. We, it's the winter road to maintenance policy and it's on our website. As it stands right now, that sort of talks about time that we're out there. Right. Not the amount of time, but the hours that we're Right. When we would start, we start planning at six at three. And then we end at, I think it's by nine. Right. By nine. Minimum service after half an hour. Right. But in that policy, I remember it said how long we want, how long the rodeos are, and that the crew has to take a break after so many hours. Do you remember what that those numbers are often? I don't. I mean, it's like I said, it's more and more talks about from three o'clock in the morning till nine o'clock in the morning. And hours beyond that are less service. So if there's an emergency, we're going to be out there. Somebody's going to go take care of that particular road emergency. Well, but, but I'm having a little trouble squaring. So I think we just need to note this, but really I'm having trouble squaring that we're on the road possibly from three and to nine PM. And we have driving safety standards that we're meeting. And we don't think this is a rabbit hole that we could probably spend 45 minutes on. All right. That's something we need to look at in conjunction with this, but I don't think we think it's that's a piece of this puzzle. Right. But let's get through this tonight. And like they said, the the winter maintenance policy is something that we can revisit and change those numbers, those times later on, not tonight. I'm not looking to change it. I'm looking just to be really clear. I am looking to how do we, what is the plan where we meet the safety standard if we have one? And yeah, where we meet the safety standard, we're not I'm not looking to flex that. I'm looking to how do we keep everybody safe? And make a plan that might mean safety means stay home, whatever, keep going. Okay, Katie has located a document is going to share it. I mean, I see that I see that as part of the picture of this. Right. And I don't think we need to go into it. I think it's worth raising this. So Alfred, in your in your second draft, you're like, okay, where do those safety standards standards fit is my plan as I've started sketching it out and going to accommodate the safety standard. And if not, how do you flex the plan so that you're still accommodating the safety standard? So it's so in other words, Alfred, you need to review, review the roads winter roads maintenance policy and come back with how that can work with this. So yeah, I think that a lot of this is they're just not going to work in conjunction with each other, because if we've got three guys, we're not going to be able to stay within those safety parameters some days. No, you will. You will. If you make the plan that says this is what it looks like when we do it. It says after 12 hours on the job, the road crew may stop operation in order to get a minimum of six hours of rest. So part of your plan has to be how do you make that work? I think what you're hearing, first of all, thank you for coming up with the first draft. And the first draft, the first draft, as I understand it simply. So what I understand is that this first stand says at least preliminarily with three people, we could do our job within the six hours if we don't cloud the roads on the list. And what I think you're hearing is great. And then in the next draft, take a look at the policy and ask yourself, is this less long in them? Or are there more things we can't do if we wanted to maintain the basic safety standards? In other words, as Sharon said, don't assume, make an assumption that we don't flex the safety standards. Make an assumption that we live with the safety standards and ask yourself, Althe, is what do we have to cut to do that? How do we make the safety standards work? But as I said in the beginning, we can't just stop plowing roads. This list is something that we can put on the sort of back burner. But we can't just stop plowing them. Well, if you include that, if you conclude that, I mean, I don't know where you'll come out and say, well, with this list, we can meet safety standards and do this. Or you might come back to us and say, guess what? I can't make the current standards work. And here's what we're going to have to change for a winner that is bad with three guys. One thing I offered didn't bring up yet is the conversation with the school system. Because we've got to have to be plowed. So we may be able to get some give and take there, too. It's possible that they'll have a B plan where they reel in. If they can reel in certain roads, so people have to get their students to drop points. And that eases some of that pressure. Freeze up a little bit more for those other roads. I mean, so that's a piece of this. Because that's part of that road coming. Right. So what I think you're hearing out is a good start. And you heard our comments and go back and look at the winter maintenance policy and the comments that were made and see how we can, how you can incorporate the safety standards into your plan. What I am helping my view just to keep it for myself is that I'd like us to maintain really sort of basic safety at all costs and plow less. If you think we're in places where we're really going to have to cut a few corners on that, then be clear. Just be clear and tell us. Right. So yeah, I definitely think that there's going to have to be more. Yeah. Based on three guys. I mean, when I first started this job 23 years ago, I was the fourth guy. They added me as a fourth root prior to that was three roots. So we're going to go backwards to go back. And I'm not saying that you guys want to do that, but yeah, it's going to be less. Yeah, yeah. This list of roads and all of them in general. Yeah. Do you recall how they did it? Is it similar to this? You think? It's somewhat too much. This approach. Similar. Yeah. Also, back then they had a truck that had two wings. So you were applying the whole row over a standing one on to the next. Now we only have one link. So we've got a backtrack. Right. So we can think we can plow one way, plow the other way. Right. And thank you. Right. So that one truck was going to work that two, that it takes two now for, right? Right. Two trips. So I think that's something. Lost that. That's never come back. I think that I think it would be good to put that history piece in a document to show how it used to be done and the difference. Now people understand why 20 years ago. Oh, 20 years ago. And but here's why it wasn't a problem because we had double double wings. Right. And yeah, that list, that list could go on and on. I mean demand is a whole lot higher now. The expectation. Yeah. I mean, I saw people, people, you know, they planned to add people stayed home more. Yeah. They weren't afraid of putting tire chains on their truck. Or they were, you know what I mean? Now they just, how many times do you see a vehicle with tire chains on their way? You don't, you just don't. So unless it's a town truck or a walk truck. So that history is also really, I think also really useful. And also good snow tires. Yeah, good snow tires. I mean, I think we all take the turn saying it. But you're, you're articulated. You articulated a second ago an assumption that we have to meet the expectations that people have, or that we have to meet the service levels, if you will, that we've been doing. And I think what we're, what we're giving, what we're saying is what we want to be able to do is communicate to people that we may not be able to meet those service levels and change and be able to message and set expectations with safety as an absolute top priority. I mean, that's what I'm hearing from everybody is that's the last thing we want to give up. Right. So we need to understand when we keep the assumption that we lock in and build around is safety of the crew, meeting the standard in the town documents, which I think we've had conversation over the past year and a half absent the crisis we're in. We might be saying it's not good enough, what we have in that policy, or we haven't been doing good enough here to it. But if we said that is a framework and everything else works around, what does that look like and how do we communicate that to the town is. And also I think we're talking about. And I think it's fair to emphasize the importance of residents making sure their vehicles are safe. But here's, we can't tell them they have to do this, but here's what we recommend. Make sure you have good snow tires. Make sure that you allow plenty of travel time, those kinds of things like that. And when we get everything all said and done, we can have a way, and not everybody has a computer or internet access, but there can be a way that we can put a banner on the website saying, we're in plan B for planning right now because, we don't have to say why, but because, and maybe it's because the truck broke down or somebody's out sick or somebody got hurt, we can put a banner on our website to alert people. So, and I've also asked VT alert, I asked them some time ago, if there was a way that the town could have some kind of an email list, and it could be confidential, that when there's an event that a VT alert goes out to the town residents that sign up for it. So, I haven't explored that recently, but I did ask them several times about this number. So, and I think this is related, getting high speed fiber optic cable plumbed around this town as a high priority notice on our agenda would really help get upon me, or a larger agenda would help us in alleviating some of the demand on Alfred and his crew during storm seasons because people increasingly are going to be able to remotely attend work. And if we, yeah, if we could have some way to communicate with them could include the school system in our alert that, you know, that's what we're going to be using plan B for the next week. I think they automatically talked to Alfred already. So, their communication is there, it's directly. And I think the most important thing, the next step, you said, you know, we've got three people working and we can only have a 12-hour duration. So, we've got 36 man hours to do the whole town. That's that. How many, how many clients can we do as a straight system? Then we look at prioritizing importance, less important, if that's what we want to do. We have to keep them open, questions, can we tweak it? And then the last thing in there, too, you want to think about is stagger, right? Because storms don't go into our cycles. So, do you have two guys on a regular ship and it's stagger a third person? So, you always have a driver on the road. If something happens, see, you're not, right? Well, I can't, I don't know, you get three guys. I can't have one guy out there. I just, I just can't. I guess. So, we've asked about that before. One guy at a time, you know, we can have two guys at a time because we have radio contact where somebody gets in trouble, the other can go. So, that idea is out. That's good. So, I guess what I'm hearing is, you did a good job on the first draft. Thank you very much. We're asking, it sounds like we're here asking you to go back, draft two, look at the winter roads maintenance policy and see how, what would, how do you make that work in one of your plans? Because safety for the road crew is the first priority. So, do you have enough information to go back and do another draft? Yeah, I'm just wondering how that's going to change. Well, think about it. Well, yeah, think about it. Think about it and come back to us. Just think about it. We know man hours, you know, say, you've got any, you've got yourself, you know, Bruce, you know, what that would, whatever those three people are, how would that division split three ways work in the town? And what would that radio time look like? And then, then after that, we can start playing with prioritization a bit, you know, to see, okay, you know, there's a lot of voodoo in this because everybody here knows, I mean, there's so much variance in every story. You know, you, some stories are really demanding time-wise. So we don't know they come at all different times. Okay, so I guess we're ready to move on. Road to hiring, we place the new ad, the new information. I have nothing. Sorry to say I have nothing. Okay. Is it you? No, that was me. That was me. I said those would like you to unmute. Sorry, John, it was an accident. It's okay. Jeremy mentioned something about maybe Barbara got something or all right, at least we're trying, we're still trying, trying to come up with a plan. I know there's a lot of this out there. It's everywhere you go. Right. But it does actually really makes this so important. Yeah. Okay. So with that, we can go one more step in preventing losing another one. Admiral just wants holidays. Yeah, I just want to be paid holidays. Yeah, we check that out. We'll make him happy and we can, we can do that. Right. We ask the town attorney, there's something we can do. The board just needs to agree to do that piece. I haven't seen it. Yeah, we just had something. Yeah. So would the board like to make that decision now so that this information can be on the record that what are we, what are we deciding exactly? We are deciding to pay and straight pay for holidays. Because right now if there's Christmas day and he works he gets paid. Right. It's Christmas day and there's no snow. He doesn't get paid. He doesn't get paid. So, so this, so yeah, so I just want to get, this is a personnel issue. So we have to be really careful. Right. We're approving. So what we are approving is a complete one off. Yes. Because because we need a part-time road person and we are not saying anything about anybody else or any other situation. Right. It's not a legal issue for employee with paying holidays. Right. But we're not making a policy statement. Just making an ad state. We're going this case by case. Employee by employee. So I would make a motion that we pay our temporary employee and rebel for holidays. For now. While he's working. While he's working as a temporary employee. And we'll revisit it next year too. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I'll select that one. Okay. All those in favor please say aye. Aye. Okay. Can you make sure all of the, what this is case by case. This is one time all of us have a non-president setting. A non-president setting. That's a good. Yep. That's a good one. Okay. So would you like to tell Ed? And it will be effective, effective upon passage, which passed. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So just, just like the Joe scenario, he mostly, especially as the winter starts coming, he's going to be getting working at least 40 hours. They're obligated to pay him overtime after court. Okay. So does that work the same for a holiday? If he works, if he comes in Christmas day, it's snow clouds, he's still getting the holidays, he's still getting the same as everybody else. Five hundred Christmas day and I work. I get 10 hours and nine hours for the holiday plus the time when I work. Yeah. Does that, does that make sense if he can take that day another time? No, that's okay. Okay. It would be time and a half after he works for court. Yeah. So that's the question is, does the, does the go towards overtime? Like it does for the rest of the crew. Yeah. So in keeping the rest, how the rest of the crew does it, is that what he's asking for? What? Well, I just need to know themselves. I think, I think, personally, I think he should be treated the same. He should be treated the same. Yeah, he should be the same. He's basically working full-time and he's willing to not, not take all the benefits that he's entitled to right now. So I think we should treat him with the holidays the same. Treat him the same. Yeah. Should we keep that? Yeah, I think for the, for the record, Katie, can you make sure that the minutes reflect that clarification? It would be wonderful if someone would state it in a sentence. Would you mind? Yeah, Mark. We're going to add to the motion such that, we're going to make an in motion. Just add to the motion, such that with respect to all relevant personnel provisions regarding payment and vacation over time and overtime, he is paid the same as other employees. Treated the same compensated the same as other employees. Other full-time. His overtime and holiday compensation is the same as the full-time employees. That's better. Yeah. Okay. All right. Are you ready to talk about Chapin Road? So thank you everyone for coming out for another site visit on Chapin Road. Okay. So I know that there is, you're here for Chapin Road. Sean and Neil, are you here for Chapin? He was on the Zoom. I know, but that's my answer. Oh, you're looking in there. Sorry. Sean, are you here for Chapin Road? You're on mute. I can't hear you. I don't mean so. Sorry. Yes, I am Denise. Okay. Let me see. Larry Bush is here. I'm assuming on behalf of the Conservation Commission for Chapin Road. And Tom Cronin, you're here for Chapin. Danielle, look where? Look here. Look here. You're here for Chapin on Zoom. Tom. Well, actually he's here for Chapin. Yes. Anybody else? I don't know. Holly Clark? Yeah, that's Tyler's wife. Yeah, it's Tyler and Holly Clark. Okay. So I'm just going to make a statement. Holly's voice changed. Yeah. So I'm just going to make a statement as we're talking about Chapin Road. In the past, it's been difficult because there's been so many people on Zoom. I'm glad you're here, person. That makes it a little easier. We're going to talk about this. If anyone starts yelling or using foul language, you will be removed from Zoom. So I can't be Yeah, good. Try it. Try it, gentlemen. Try it. We're not going to have any disrespect yelling or foul language from anyone on Zoom or anybody in the audience. And no, especially no board members. I'm no fun. I know. You come for the cookies. All right. So let's get started. We get a site visit and then we did another site visit on, it was October 16th at 10 in the morning on Saturday. And we had a good turnout. The first time had a good turnout. The second time we walked the route the first time with Alfred and he showed us where the conservation commission and he had decided that a parking area might be a good place to put it. We did some more walking and and came up with a couple of other alternatives to the site to a parking area. On the 16th, when we were walking around, we were kind of like, why do we really need a parking area? So here are the options that we came up with when we were meeting on site of a 16. The first one was do nothing. Second one was to install a parking area and mark the trails. Third was no parking area. And the fourth is, are there other options that the board would like to consider? So I'd like to hear from the board first. We'll go around the board first and then we'll give other folks an opportunity to talk. Does that make sense? Okay, John, you first. Get that camera on. Well, yeah, so folks, our remote camera is not working there. So I'm spinning a laptop around so folks can see what's going on in the room. So I attended both site visits out on Chapin Road and cutting to the quick here. Coming to cutting to the chase. I think that there was a consensus among those who attended the second site visit that at least for now, it would be fine to get trails in. In fact, trails clearly mark property lines or boundaries of the town forest would be advantageous not only to the folks using the trails in the town forest, but to the neighboring property owners so that folks didn't stray from the town property. So I think that my position as one member is that we should support getting those trails in. I don't know if that's going to happen this year. Tampa actually can find fellows in better or if it's going to happen next spring. But I think that's something we should look forward to is to drive to the parking area. I think we hold that in reserve at the very least and decide down the road based on level of use and any problems crop up. If we feel there's a need to revisit that, then we visit at that time. My position, if I were to make a motion, it would be along those lines. My only question is whether the question, my question is whether the question of trails or no trails is properly a select board question. And I tried to find a charter for the trails committee and I actually couldn't find one. So my preference would be of course that the question of trails or no trails, we could be excited about trails. Where did we say no trails? Well, that's one of the options. Mark, the do nothing or other options. Yeah, I mean, so I think without a charter, I don't know if there is a charter or a charge and it would be good to find one if there is for the trails committee to understand what their authority is. But I would imagine that it's actually within the jurisdiction of the trails committee to decide where the trails go in, where they go in, all that stuff on town property. So our scope of authority having delegated that to the trails committees and say, yeah, excited about trails, good, you know, would be great to go for walks. That's all I'm saying is I wouldn't want us to see us take a vote on trails or no trails. I think the question for us right now is parking lot or no parking lot. That's what I was sort of getting at with my list. No, I know, I know, but I just, I don't want us to unwittingly like create some expectation that's our decision about trails unless we're sure that it is. And I'd like to revisit that because I think I'm in disagreement. I think ultimately this is town property and we're in charge of what happens on town property. There's even liability issues. And but while we delegate, it's like the planning commission is advisory. And unless there's a statutorily prescribed authority like the cemetery commission or something or separately elected, then I think everything false is up to us. But have we, but there's, but have we, is that, is that clear? Because it's my understanding that perhaps there are trails on other town property or the assumption that there will be trails and that question hasn't come for us. So I don't think that that's going to be an issue that we're going to worry about tonight. It would be good to find out and get clear and get clear. Right. But I think tonight, if we're talking about, I think we're mainly talking about how we're going to put it apart here. Mark's next. On the trails absent clarity. Unless there's some clear delegation, I think it's up to the select board to say, Mark trails, what it's not up to us to do is to say where, how many, what they should look like. That's the trails committee. That would be the delegation. To me, they would make sense. That's the way they've always done it. Right. But as to the parking lot, I guess I only attended the first. So what happened? You guys tell me what happened that caused that? Because in the first, we were not too enthusiastic after a while with one location, but we found a second that we kind of liked. That's where it was. So what was yours? Did you look at the draft minutes that I did? No. Because that talks about that. Could you just quickly summarize that? I don't need to remember. I think it was the, some of the points that the neighbors made that currently is used very little. Right. So the parking is not an issue. And we talked about the road and the fact that, you know, it's going to have me, if there may be increased traffic, the road is narrow, which to me, that didn't sell me on that because there's a lot of roads and catalysts that are narrow and have a lot of traffic probably more so than Chapin does. So I think the fact that people were concerned with the added extra coming, that there wasn't an issue with parking now on the usage. So why would there be an issue going forward if it's not advertised or nothing changes in the scope of how we, how we publicize or not this particular trail, which we don't with any other trails. The only one that is really used a lot is, and I'm going to forget the name of that place, the conservation conservancy one, tickering. That's not ours. That belongs to the nature conservancy. That one does tend to get a lot of use and a lot of publicity and events are scheduled. We don't foresee that with the Chapin town for us. So I think the fact that it's really, there's only no need for parking here. And in other words, people feel that there's enough parking on the side of the road, like where we park, right? And there's three or four cars, like that. There's really no need for additional parking. Yeah, but I wanted, I wanted to be able to respond to Mark's question because I would respond differently to, to the question of what changed. I wasn't at the first one. You were at the second. I was at the second one. If, if we were, if we had a vote of parking lot or no parking lot tonight, I would vote parking. For me, the difference, the difference is we don't have to vote. We're losing nothing. We could put a parking lot in next year. We could put a parking lot in in two years. There's time to see whether any of the, whether they're, there's time to phase it. I mean, and based on, I mean, based on if the trails, whether the usage increases. Yeah. Also, I mean, we do have to be a some concern that we, that there, that, that folks accessing the trails would block the class four road and it's a town road and people use it for access to, you know, parcels beyond that, that could be, that could be an issue, but I'm willing, I'm willing to wait and see. I think that's what we talked about is let's see how it goes. Well, what I'm not saying is that, what I'm not saying is I, is I, I don't agree with everything Denise said. That's not necessarily, and I'm not going to say what I don't agree with. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The consensus is, again, if I were voting tonight, I would vote put in a parking lot, but we don't have to do that. We're losing nothing by, by reserving. Well, I think what we, we talked about too is seeing how it goes, you know, is there going to be a lot of usage if there's a lot of usage and it creates problem on the road that people can't get down up and down the road, then that's a problem that we need to address it then and that would maybe lead us to believe we needed a parking area. But if nothing much changes and the current usage doesn't go up, then there's really no need for a parking area. My point is on that. I don't understand where Sharon's coming from. I mean, kind of, kind of split a little bit myself, but I actually think it's wise to do the trails, wait, and watch. It's just in the act of going that road. Just that gravel road, even if we do that really short, right? You are going to, you know, we're doing more maintenance issues, I think, unless and, you know, drainage will get impact a little bit. So I think we're, it's prudent. You know, if there's a lot, if there's a big increase in vehicles down there, we're going to see more damage to the class four. And then we're going to have to, then we put in parking. I don't think we're going to see. I think you're going to see so few people using it that it's just not going to be worth that. I think we'll be more damaged than good. I don't know what Alfred thinks. I think you kind of see what I'm driving up probably. I mean, we have to gravel that to wherever we are. We don't have to do something with the water, which we kind of do, but every time you drive vehicles, if there's, you know, I mean, we're changing that natural. Well, that's another point is that there are two right possible parking places. Three. Three. Okay. Then what that means is to some extent, people will park there. And so one of the other, one of the other impact risks, whatever that we're taking, is that is not just road damage, but just habitation. Habitat damage. Yeah, habitat. And, you know, there's, there'll be all three will become parking spots. I wanted to say in that too, it wasn't done, but that they, there's also the confusion of where to park. And we've got the road starting right there. You've talked about, we have to make sure that sign properly because we don't want them parking and blocking. I mean, that is there enough that it's going to get difficult to get by for somebody. If somebody's careful about parking, you could block it. Well, and then I think that's where we're going to hear from them. We'll be hearing from the neighbors. You know, there's all these cars parked along the side of the road. Let's rethink the parking lot option. But I think for tonight we could vote to not take any, not say we're never going to put in a parking area, but say that we're not going to put in any parking area at this time. Yeah, absolutely. That's perfect. That's right. And that we love the idea of trails. Who thought? I think John, one of your answers. Well, yeah, so I think maybe like I hit this button sometimes to move this thing around. I do struggle. And I think I'm probably the odd man out here with our, quite frankly, for 40 acre, 38 acre parcel per parcel, us invading a neighborhood and bringing potentially bringing that high level attention to a 34 acre wood lot. I mean, it could go either I think actually nothing can happen. I mean, I don't think anyone like I've said to everyone here, I think some of the are and the drive across town so they can hike the 34 acre wood lot when there's thousands of acres fall around us. I mean, we're that spoiled in Calis. Our neighbors, there's tens of thousands of acres, even in your car and drive over here. But there's a 34 acre, there's not a waterfall, there's not a view, there's not a special rare plant. And if there is, we wouldn't tell you. You know, there's nothing going on to my mind. And I've said this to Steffan. So I don't see it as being beneficial. I just don't see the benefits outweighing the negatives for the neighborhood. I really struggled with it. And I might try to think if that were in my backyard, if I was enjoying what's essentially a dead end neighborhood, the benefits of that. And now we're going to encourage everyone to come to a town. It's a town property that was originally all these town lots were meant to fire so that we could keep people heated so they didn't freeze to death in 1934. They wasn't meant to be. And now we found other uses and that's great. But I think we continued. We need to be sensitive. That's all. And I'm sensitive to their concerns. So I think, but what after saying, I think what we're doing is showing sensitivity to those concerns. I think if folks will see, we'll see what happens. I think not having, I think bringing attention to it and not having trails marked is a problem. I think bringing attention to it and not having boundaries mark is a problem because now that's where we're going to have the conference with neighboring property owners who have made it clear that they don't want people, you know, walking about their properties that are posted. Yeah. And they have already struggling with people doing that. Yeah. But that's not just to be clear. That's not what we're talking about is Paul's been out there to survey so that the boundaries are clear. Right. That's why we're doing it. So if so you're saying, yeah, I just want to make sure that everybody who are watching this understands, you're saying if we were doing it, that's not we're doing what we are doing is making sure that the boundaries are clear. We've had a survey to make sure clear mark and the intent is that the trails committee will mark trails on the town property that will be easy to find so that people are not on the neighbor's part. Right. And that's what I thought. And I tend to agree with John on this about neighbors and being sensitive to their concerns. But at the same time, I don't want us to say we're never going to put in a parking area. I think we need to I don't think I don't think we publicize this town forest trails any more than we do any other ones. Okay, I think we have consensus. Yeah. Yeah. But I'd like to I guess I'd like to hear from Tom and then Larry representing the conservation commission and then if a neighbor or to anyone who showed up would like to speak, you know, then we'd like to hear from you. Tom, are you there? I'm here. Where are you? I'm trying to find you. I'm here. He's on the list. Can you see me? Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Well, thank you for the you know, on behalf of the trails committee, just thank you for the opportunity to to investigate the Chapin Town Forest. I've been out there a few times kind of scouting around. I think it's actually a very interesting piece of property for people to walk through. It's not my decision, but I kind of got an idea as to where a trail might be located. But I'm very interested to hear from the entire committee. And so we are scheduling a walk of the forest on this coming Sunday on Halloween. And we'll report back to the select board on the results of that walk at a meeting in the future. And I guess we'll just take it from there. I have walked the boundaries of it with Paul Hannon, a surveyor. And I have a pretty solid idea of where the boundaries of the town forest are located. So I don't think we're going to have problems with that. And you know, I don't foresee like a whole spider web, you know, circuitry of trails through there. It's just too small a parcel. It's not like the Bliss Pond Town Forest, which is much larger. And parts of it are really not traversable. They're too wet or they're too gnarly or whatever. So we'll report back when we've done that walk. All right, very good. All right. I just want to remind folks it's a little after eight. So we want to move this along, but I want to give everybody an ample opportunity to speak quickly. Larry Bush, do you have anything to say? Yeah, I hope just a couple of quick comments. Partly in response to Sharon's question about, you know, how this management of these town forest work, this is, this will sound a little bit like, like turf protection, but, but it is the responsibility of the conservation commission as things now stand, at least as I understand it to, in the first instance, be responsible for managing the forest, which would include decisions about putting trails in there and so forth. Obviously, we can only make recommendations to the select board ultimately, but, but the responsibility has lain with the conservation commission for a long time at least to be in charge of the things in the town forest. And that includes the trail system that's on Bliss Pond Forest. And, and I would think probably also the one in Chapin Forest. Now, having said that, that the trails committee has become a very important central actor in the creation of trails on both public and private land in Calis, and we're grateful for them doing it and look forward to working with them. But I did just want to, I felt, since I'm the only one here from the conservation commission, somebody should probably try to point that out. Very good. Is that it? Thank you, Larry. Thank you, Larry. Okay, I'm going to go around Zoom first. Tom Cronin has had his hand up. Yes, thank you. Are you able to hear me? I just want to keep the conversation moving so you can make it. Yeah, thanks very much for the opportunity to speak and I appreciate you, yeah, taking our input. Seriously, there's two questions that come to my mind. One question is there's a 600 foot stretch of road from the mailboxes to the beginning of the private road that is maintained by the subdivision. And I just want to understand from the select board or if you've had an opportunity to talk this over with the town attorney, if there's any sort of liability to the homeowners of folks using that stretch of road? I don't see how it would be any different than everything already is. Still a class 4 road, still status quo. We're not doing anything to change anything. Okay, yeah, because when I look back to the agreements that were signed when that subdivision was put into place, I understand that there's an agreement between the homeowners in the town that we privately maintain that stretch of road. So I just want to understand from the select committee, if someone's car was to be damaged because the road wasn't maintained sufficiently, would that liability fall to the homeowners? No, I don't see how it's a town road. Even if it's a class 4 road, it's a town road. Okay, even though we pay to maintain it. Right. Okay. And then so we as in the homeowners and the subdivision back there, we privately maintain that 600 foot stretch of town road. And that's what's in your deeds. So hang on. I'm sorry, Tom. Tom, are you also on the trails committee? Yes. Okay, so I'm processing Tom's question from trails committee wrong. Tom is also a homeowner up in shape. Right. Okay. All right. Okay. I just had to orient where you were coming from. Yeah, thank you for making that clarification. Sure. And then yeah, my second question is, I understand this is a class 4 road that connects down to Peckinbrook Road. And if there's any chance that if a trail was to be established, that that would then allow for, you know, other all terrain vehicles to access that road or something going to be done to prevent all terrain vehicles from being able to get from Peckin Road to Chapin Road. I mean, ATVs are not allowed on any of our roads or trails. I don't know how they would get across that ravine. I walked that road end to end and kind of back. I got lost. I mean, there's a ravine you can't get through. There's an ATV. But I know that if a trail gets put in, they may try to bridge that ravine. Well, they can't without town. They can't. It's a town for us. So if something like that happens, then you come and you tell us. Okay. We haven't had any other, any other trail. No, we have trails in our land. We've never had an ATV. No. So it's not normally. But this is, this is a private, he's speaking about the far end of this class 4 road that meets Peckinbrook Road. And that is washed out. There's a culvert and a steep ravine. And it's muddy as heck. But if someone were to want to spend, you know, $20,000 renovating that to put a culvert and make it navigable by a vehicle, they would first have to get permission from us to open that up and perform that work. So that would be illegal otherwise. And we would have to have a meeting hearing and notice. Right. That's right. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you very much for allowing me to ask those questions and for providing a response. I appreciate that. Oh, Sean. Yeah, I guess I'll just make a quick comment that I really appreciated the meeting that we had at the proposed parking lots on the 16th. And I did feel like that you all were listening to, to the residents out there and our concerns. And I really appreciate that. And I appreciate John's comments particularly. And thank you for all the work that you do. Thank you, Sean. Margaret Thomas, is she a neighbor? Margaret. Maggie. Maggie. Yes. Do you want to make a comment? I don't think so. But thank you. Thank you. Danielle. Danielle, did you want to make a comment at all? I guess not. Okay. Holly Clark. Yeah, I think we just strongly agree as neighbors. To really what John's saying, you know, really being sensitive to what we think. Really, yeah, I think we all could kind of agree to that. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I'm good. I think he's sense-synchly. And I appreciate you all coming out for a second. Yeah, I think the second slide, because it was really helpful. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So thanks for that. All right. Thank you. So I want to see if anybody else, I mean, anybody's welcome to make a comment about this. So we don't, so going back to Larry's point, I can't remember. We don't have a motion to do a parking lot. So we don't really have to vote not to do a parking lot. Do we, do we have a formal, I can't remember, has the, has the conservation committee commissioned Larry or was it Larry? And Tom. And Tom. And Tom. And Tom. And Tom. And Tom. And Tom Blaschling. Who was doing, but Larry was the one who spoke on behalf of the conservation commission as having responsibility for town. So my question is whether Larry has the, is there anything from the conservation commission around trails and shape and forest for, that's come to us for us to take action? Or should we leave it where we are right now and let the conservation commission come back if they need to get something from us on trails? Well, I think we've made it pretty clear. I don't know that we need a motion, but the original request to put in the parking lot came from the conservation commission. So I think we just need to get the message back to the conservation commission. And that me and our minutes that we're not going to take any action at this time regarding a parking lot period. Right. Does that make sense? I think what we're saying to saying, am I right? Is number one, we're not going to approve a parking lot at this time. Number two, we would like the conservation commission. Should they have a, the conservation commission and the trails committee, do we want them to, if they have make decisions or discuss this and come to some conclusions, do we want them to come to us? Well, they would come to us if they were asking us again to consider putting in a parking area. No, but if there was just trails. They'll figure out what they need from us to do trails. Okay, well then I'm happy just doing that. Yeah. Okay, no motion. I think we'll just put it in the minutes as I stated. We're not going to take any action at this time regarding a parking area. But I think we would, maybe we didn't, I think we want to make sure this property boundaries are clearly demarcated. I know Paul. Oh, thanks, Paul. Anand, by the way, once again, he volunteered to do the surveying. Right. For the town of Robono, he does this, he does this a lot for us. So thank you. That's good. And he's, but I think Paul, if I read his email correctly, it's pretty clear what the lines should be. And he said he'd be willing to blaze them at some point in the future, not right off. And, and then we could paint the blazes next spring or something. So we should take them up on that offer, a generous offer. And then get those boundaries marked at the same time or in your time to when trails are put in. Yeah. Does the conservation commission need something from us on that, Larry? I think I would imagine not. I would imagine not because Tom's, Paul's email with his offer, Larry was on that. So he could conservation commission, correct? As long as they don't, as long as there's nothing we need to do on it, if there is, since we're talking about it, we could just do it. Tom, do you need anything from us? I don't think so. I think it's been our assumption, and I'm probably Tom Blasch is in the trails committees as well, that we could go forward on laying out a trails system in there and my trail system. I don't need to suggest anything extensive. And probably wouldn't need to come back to you for authorization on the specific location or terms of the trail unless you wanted us to. No, I don't think so. Or blazing the property and having Paul, I mean, Paul's doing it for free. He's doing it. He's doing it out of his own good will to help us out, which we very much appreciate. And he said he would mark the boundaries and blaze. So we're going to leave this to the conservation committee. Yes. Conservation committee and the trails. Okay. And we're going to just see if there's problems. All right. That let us know. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks. All right. Okay. Now we were ahead of schedule. Now we're behind. That happens all the time. Now I have to figure out how to get it back. That's right. That was a good piece of work done. You can just minimize that. Okay. Now we're going to talk about East Calis stormwater project. I'm not sure which one of these documents is, is Grace here? I'm here. If you want to tell me, do you want this document? So, so tonight I just wanted to pan pass some information on to me before she left us sadly about next steps for the project. And I just wanted to provide that info as a update if that works. Not have action item tonight. I don't think so. I think this was Rick. Was this just an update? All right. So the final design plans are done. And DEC is going to be putting out a request for proposals maybe November, December for implementation phase of the two stormwater projects. And CVRPC is going to be submitting a proposal for project management for that RFP in response to that RFP. Let's see. That's my main update that I think next steps are just waiting on that proposal. And then, you know, I anticipate I will probably be leading that and all coordinate with the select board as needed. Okay. So that's that's it. That's just the update then. So yeah. So there's nothing, there's nothing for us to do. There's no action for us to take. It's just an update. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. We still have Rick. Are you still delegated to that project? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We just don't actually waiting for that. Okay. Yeah. He just asked to have it on. So we can get an update. All right. We talked about, we got this information about this regional emergency management committee and Grace, do you want to get into that a little bit or not? Sure. Yeah. So the state is forming regional and regional emergency management committees, REMCs, and it's going to include, so each REMC is going to include two representatives from each municipality in the region. So for central Vermont, that's 23 municipalities, two reps each. The first representative for each town is automatically the EMD. The second representative is intended to be a member of the emergency medical services community, the EMS community to kind of offer that additional perspective So Denise, I know we had some back and forths about the second representative. Right. And actually Betty is, Betty Copeland is here tonight. I did speak with her and she was willing to serve, but it sounds like now that's not an option as to be somebody in this emergency. Yeah. I'm waiting on confirmation from VEM. I reached out to them today hoping to get some information for the meeting. But it seems like, yes, it seems like their intention is to have a specific member from fire, rescue, ambulance as that second representative. They're really, that's what they're pushing for. Yeah. Okay. So I don't think there's anything, there's no, I was hoping we were going to be able to vote to appoint Betty, but it sounds like we need more information. So now there's a deadline on this. If Betty wanted to be a liaison to the fire department, like establish a relationship, like become a member, maybe there's a liaison role and then she could be. Yeah. I mean, so I think something like that would work. I understand that, you know, there's not a lot of capacity for people to join another, yet another committee. If he's not clear, is this part of this meeting just happening? So then they have someone from the fire department representing he's not clear. Well, and don't forget, we also have Woodbury fire department. Woodbury. Yeah. Yeah. So Eastmont Pealier Eastmont Pealier didn't pick someone from the fire department for their second rep. They picked their constable. Okay. So, so who are even the list of possibles? It doesn't have to, it has to be a town resident. Yeah. Right. Or yeah, or somebody as part of some emergency management aspect of thing. That's why somebody from the fire department is okay because Eastmont Pealier Cal is fire department and then we have Woodbury fire department. But there is a deadline, but there is a, just wait a second. There is a deadline of what is it November 9th to make this appointment? So the list of possibles though within Cal. So we have, so Nick is first because he's our emergency management director. But it can't be anybody else who's involved in our emergency management, but not in our emergency services. Grace, is that what I'm hearing? Some of Toby. Well, right. So it'll be on Toby though. Like we Toby, who else in Calis actually serves on? Well, that's why I wouldn't, I don't, I don't know the answer to this, but I wondered if there's anybody on the Woodbury volunteer fire department that is a Calis resident that we could ask. Right. And I haven't had a chance. Yeah. Well, I think we should table this and bring it back. Well, well, there's a deadline. Well, what's the deadline? What's the deadline, Grace? The deadline is the first, but VEM has said that they, you know, can offer some flexibility. I don't think there's going to be any repercussions. If you don't appoint tonight, you know, I can tell, I can tell VEM that there's just ongoing discussions. I know a lot of people is really good. Right. We're trying to, no, I don't think so. We're trying to come out the other way. John's coming out the other way rather than, okay, who's already involved. Can we, is Betty willing to be involved enough in emergency services that she's starting here and connecting into emergency services rather than the opposite? I think what I heard Grace say, she needs to check that out. Correct? Yes. I think we can do that tonight. Oh, absolutely. Okay. So we know that she's willing. So we need Grace to go back and check with VEM as to whether or not that's an option. And if it is, then we could do this appointment at our next meeting. But for tonight, there's no appointment tonight. Just to be clear, the idea would be we would appoint the liaison to one or both of our fire departments at service, right, Barry and Eastmont Piliar. And so by virtue of that appointment, their role would be emergency services related. Right. Can I make a suggestion? Forgiveness, not permission. We have Betty here. She's willing. We could appoint her and let Grace tell us no, that won't work. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's a motion. I'll second it. That is a motion. Sharon Lee said, forgive this not permission. Okay. All right. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. None of this. All right, Betty. You're on graduation. Congratulations. You don't know what to be. Congratulations. Congratulations. They may have to polish the chrome bells on each truck once a year. Stand in the middle of the barrel of the can. Right. All right. Next up. Passive. We have Kelly. How do you say your last name? It's known as the first case. Okay. From Monteliga Cities and Towns. And she's here to help us with our insurance woes. Look at Sharon. As everybody knows. Anybody want to put the same challenge that you are not the first? It's a challenge. Yes. Okay. Mark. Passive. Passive. Passive. Please. Yeah. That's possible. You're allergic to cookies without chocolate. Thank you. You know what else you want. Mark. Mark. Sharon. Sharon. Just so you know. Just so you know. Just so you know. Just so you know. Just so you know. That's how we started. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Thank you, Mark. And Denise. Okay. Now you can pass them. What's that? Okay. Can we stay on track here? We have a number of folks in the in the galley, I guess, or gallery, as you might call it, that are here to listen about the insurance and potentially ask questions. So you kind of got the gist of our problem. So we are looking for clarification. I did read the document. Yeah, I read that as well. You don't have to. Yeah, so you don't have to go over that. I said you my question. Sure. I just want to call the document up. Yeah. And we had this actually this exact same conversation we had recently. Very, very similar. And I've had similar questions from a few other members this summer. I think it was in the hardwood. So that's why we actually came up with this this year, because it's a growing issue. It is. It really is. There's many questions about it and times are changing for sure. So have you ever had a situation? I imagine municipal buildings all around the state are being used by local community members for all sorts of events historically. Have you had one of those events create an insurance issue that you then didn't cover? I haven't been with passive that long. So I don't know personally any and we certainly had a fair share of claims. And there's often a lot of ambiguity to the claims as to who is responsible who is not. So contracts are really important, of course, because contracts will help lay out who might be responsible. And I know your primary question here is about probably when should additional coverage be required or be requested. So that is really the key question that we've had come up. So it's really, you might have municipal functions and if it's posted, operated, organized by the town, then that's really not an issue. It's pretty straightforward from the most part. But yes, when it does start to fall under their nonprofits or small groups, whoever might be, or we've even had some from up where some places are being used for say a wedding reception. And that's probably the most extremely popular. Well, we had a request recently to have a kid's birthday party here. But it might make sense to kind of talk through the document you sent. I didn't send you my questions. I don't know if anybody else does. We go through. I mean, I do want my preferences to be placing that passive. We don't have any heavy requirements. We don't say you have to do this. What we do is we just give you some intimate type guidance and say, if you want to try to mitigate risk or share risk in whoever's organizing something, these are our suggestions. So don't ever take it as I was saying you absolutely have to do this or that. And we're just here for multiple questions. And I won't be able to answer all of you tonight. I can guarantee you that because we get these questions. I think what's important to us bottom line is whether or not an injury or an event would be covered by passives. Just so you know, we're a little bit PTSD. We got nailed that 2013, 2014. We do not have a municipal fire company. We have Eastmont Pillar fire department and we have Woodbury fire departments both providing coverage to us. They're both private nonprofits and we have contractual relationships. We fund today, for example, a share of a million dollar fire station and all the costs and all the equipment and everything else. And there was a decision made by the fire chief. The crane was a crane roll over right there, right there. And someone from A&R's emergency response has a spill response team came and said, well, I'm really concerned about the leaking diesel fuel out of the tank of this crane that rolled over in the wetland. And so the fire chief is like, whoa, what do I do? And I'm like, well, it'd be good to get that out of there. Well, how do you get a crane out that way so much with another crane that's yet larger? And long and short of it, there was a $120,000 bill that was slapped on us. And Passive said, nope, we're not paying that. Not our problem. They weren't authorized by the town to make that decision. And so we took it on the chin and it cost us bundles. And so I do worry about Passive. I know it's all of us together pooling our money. It's a pooled effort. But I worry that there might be such a concern to protect that fund that they'll look for reasons to not cover us. That's my worry right now. So I'd really like to know where the bright lines are. Where there is coverage, where there isn't. That's going to be the same for those questions. I can't answer every area of course. But what I came away from your memos here was that the bright line is not municipal function versus not. That in fact, we can have this room or the upstairs room used for non-municipal functions. And it's what's up to us is to estimate the risk. And if the risk is somewhat high or higher, we should insist that the entity that it's using it have their own insurance card. Well, that's what it says in here. Yes, right. That's what I think. And Mike, and I keep coming back and you probably saw part of my key questions are, who decides? How do you make that determination that it's a more risky event than this other event? And that's kind of what this is designed to do is to help you look at some of the types of exposures that you might face. Again, I can't put every single possible exposure in this document, but that's why we're here to ask our questions. If you have some things specific to come up, don't be afraid to ask us again and say, hey, this is what we've got coming down next week. But we want to be able to open the upstairs of the building for people to use. We've had, I can't even tell you how many requests we have denied and we don't like to deny them, but we don't know what the insurance piece is. So we need to find an answer to this insurance question. So we understand about mitigating risk. That's what we all want to do. But at the end of the day, there's risk and is covered risk knowing what risk is covered and what is not those bright lines are important to inform us on how to take next steps. And so this is a town property. So automatically the general liability does apply to this property, to the premises. So typically the entire premises, yes. Anything by the town, the general liability automatically extends. Obviously there's coverage conditions. So it depends on what happens. If there's other contracts in place, there's negligence on the town's part, there's an else's part, things that could sway that of course. But generally speaking, yes. The general liability would apply by the town's coverage. So that's why we just say, typically it's the select board's decision to figure out some parameters around what you're going to permit without any additional coverage and what you think is higher risk, higher exposure, where you feel it's a little too much for the town to take on. Because it's more likely something might happen, whether that be general liability or property. And I'll go back to the extreme of a wedding reception. You've got possibly candles, you've got alcohol, you've got people dancing. There's a lot of exposures there. So that's where you think probably, yeah, that's something you definitely want to have somebody get their one day policy or something. And that's something that was part of my question. Is that really easy to do for people? And I know caterers generally have insurance that covers them if they're serving alcohol. They should. They absolutely should. So we can ask for a copy of that insurance policy to make sure that that piece is covered. Correct. And then we can ask the wedding planner or whoever to make sure that they get a policy for this one day event and file it with the town. Correct. Or even the bride's room, whoever, anybody can get that. So there's a couple of ways that they can go about that if they have their own agent and they want to approach them or something like that. We also, for our website, we have the Tulip program, which is a tenant use policy. It's pretty simple. I mean, you might have questions if you go through it, but you can access that pretty easily and have them access it. Because it's going to ask very specific questions about how long is it, who's attending, how many people, are there police? Yeah, policing the event. So there's things like that, building alcohol. And it'll give you a quote at the very end of it and they can bind it right there and then we will get proof that that was bound. And we'll automatically know that that tulip policy was found. That's not a passing policy. No, it's something that we just have on our website, but we don't write that policy. Somebody, but it accesses another insurance company and they write it and bind it right there. For that particular event. Yeah. And it's got a whole big long list. We have it saved and I'll be able to use it too, but many, many different types of events that are listed on top. I mean, for instance, we have people that might want to do a poetry reading, that's probably pretty benign. Yes, I would agree. But on the other hand, if you're doing a play and there's a lot of people moving around on stages and stuff, somebody falls off the stage, you know, that could be a problem. Correct. Well, again, I keep circling back to this, if there's a play going on here and it's by the local theater club, passive would not cover that if there was a claim made. Correct? They might possibly, depends on what the claim is, if there's again, but we could ask them to do this. Yeah, so it would be good to know. Actually, wait a minute. This is where I struggle. Yeah, well, again, what I heard you say is, if it's here, if the fault is, it's covered. It's most likely going to fall to passive coverage. Yes. If there's no other coverage. If there's no other coverage. I didn't get it. If the fault is, it's covered. This building is a municipal building, anything that happens here is covered by passive. Right. If passive says, wait, that's the rule. The exceptions are if the town itself was negligent in allowing an event to occur, passive might assert that it doesn't have to pay. But I want to hear this in writing. I mean, this is conversational, but we thought you were covered for that claim. I mean, they are clearly, if the house burns down, it's because the fire department didn't show up in time. Is there a passive policy? Oh, yes. Yes, we have a fairly lengthy coverage. Maybe we better look at that. Well, I can send you an answer. And no matter what I've been hearing is, most likely. There's no guarantee because I get every claim. Right, and when you're very clear there's no guarantee and that's the problem. Right, I'm hearing the disclaimer language. And so that's, I understand that's actually, that is just the way that it is. But when you consider that it actually isn't going to be the selector making decision about the play or, I mean. And that'll all be investigated. But when I say that, I'm saying, I'm saying, as a member of the select board, there's absolutely no way that I want us, one at a time, two at a time, assessing. So no matter what we hear from passive, it has to be translated to a town policy that we can, that somebody. Well, with the French group. The French group, but it's still not, it's not even the French group. It's like somebody has to make that decision. Make the decision based on really clear criteria because nobody's going to want that hot potato. Well, that's pretty simple. You know, at least a temporary option. And that is, until we get this sorted out. So we people can use it. Why don't we say you need to have you pick up it sounds pretty simple. They're having trouble finding insurance. That's the problem. Well, it sounds like there's two of them. Two of them, yeah. I mean, that's what I was saying. Well, that's an option. If we adopt, I agree with Sharon, where we're going to end, first of all, it's clear. We can read the policy. It's like any insurance policy. You never know. Good luck. There's not clarity. Good luck reading that. It's not going to happen. Well, no, we don't know. You want to know. If this building burns down tomorrow, we know we're covered and says that. Right. But they'll, but not if it's you who lit the fire and they'll assert it here. Well, then that's ours. Okay. But anyway, what I was going to say is, if we adopt a policy here and we list sort of the threshold when we want, which activities, which kinds of activities are not going to require supplemental insurance. And which are before we give it to somebody here to do it. Can we give it to you? Will you guys passive tell us whether you think it's a good proposal? Well, what I was going to ask is, you had this issue with Cabot. Do you have a draft template policy that you're recommending the town? Not a policy. We came up with actually this instead, just as much guidance as possible, because we can't even tell the town what to do. But you know, okay. So then my other question, do you know of a town that has a policy based on this risk assessment stuff? I haven't seen a policy yet. I've seen short one page contracts or agreements. So they're deciding whether or not how long is the event going to be, what's going to be involved kind of people. It might have similar questions like that. I've seen a couple agreements of that nature. I haven't seen a policy yet, because again, this seems to be a hot topic this year, for some reason. Well, because it's COVID, everybody's trying to do something. It's really coming out, right? Well, I think that we should read the contract. We should read the policy. Number one, I'll do that. You'll read the insurance policy. I'll read the insurance policy. Number two, I think that we should, somebody here, should just put together a list of here are the kinds of activities that don't need insurance. Here are the ones that do, and we send it to them for their credit. I think the friends group, they would fall within the parameters of the friends group to put together this list. Great, and we give them this. Yeah. We give them this, and I ask them to put it together. I know that they really want to get this place used, as do we, but we need to be responsible about how we do it. And I think they understand that, that we're looking, ladies, they understand that we have to really look out for the town. Correct. And it's all about, as we said, it's all member-owned and released. So yes, we're all trying to look out for each other at the end of the day. As I said, in most cases, there should be coverage. I don't want to guarantee because that would be critical as a way. That would be stepping on claims toes. But our goal from what I have seen is to try to cover whatever we possibly can, and we've got more to leave the town hanging high and dry. I'd have to investigate what that last thing was, because I'm curious, and I don't know why that was denied. Well, it was a nuance. Yeah, it was not good. But I see Cliff Emmons is here. He's president of the Friends Group. Cliff is what we're talking about, something that Friends can put together. The list. The list. Cliff? Uh-oh. Can you just repeat? So, wait a minute. Oh, he's at the top. Oh, he's not. Cliff, we cannot hear you. Computer issues. I'm here. I can respond to that, Denise. Thank you, Cliff. Thanks for inviting me to address it. Yes. So, the Friends are in the process of securing insurance. We are zeroing in on a couple of policy proposals that we've received, and we anticipate being able to secure insurance. Probably not this month, but next month, first part of next month. A lot of the questions that are being asked here, questions that we've already asked, it's pretty clear, based upon conversations we had with Passive, that anything organized or staged by the Friends or initiated through the Friends, managed by the Friends, would not be covered under the existing town policy. That's because the Friends are a private, nonprofit organization, and technically, we're not really affiliated with town. Even if we have a management agreement with you, we are not the town. So, any of those activities would not be covered by the Passive policy. This is why the Friends need to have an insurance policy. And when we get to the point where we sit down with the select board to discuss the management agreement, you will see that there is language in there that hits upon these points of when will we require insurance for third party if they're serving alcohol? What's the rules if it's a hosted alcohol event versus a no-host alcohol event? And catering, use of different parts of the building. We've looked long and hard at all of this. It's one of the reasons it's taken us so long to develop and flush out this policy. So, hopefully that answers the questions. I can expand upon that if anyone has some follow-up questions. I do. Go ahead. So, to connect what we heard a few minutes ago and what Cliff just said, let me make sure I understand. So, if we had an employee of the town doing the filtering and approving and taking applications and requests for advance or if the select board were handling every request, then that would be something that passive more broadly might cover. Cliff, and this may not be something that... It's Kelly, right? It is Kelly. Sorry, I'm not using your name, but there was a check. So, Kelly, thank you. So, but Cliff, what you guys learn, what the friends learn, is because, I think it's kind of ironic because we're a small town and we have this great arrangement with the volunteer group to kind of manage as a delegate where we know we're trying to do it right with an agreement and everything, but even that is too attenuated for passive coverage. Is that what I'm understanding? Does that make sense to you? Yeah, and I will elaborate because this is where a lot of confusion does come around. So, I know Cliff said that if the friends were organizing and hosting events that there would be no coverage for passive, that's not 100% true. Say a fire was started there, you know, an event that's hosted by the friends, you would most likely have property drivers that would repair this building. General liability gets a little murky because... Passive, can't you? Correct. So, where he is correct is that, yes, the friends should have their own policy. It's great that they're looking into that because if they're hosting the event and something happens, say somebody trips and falls, somebody gets in a fight, you know, there's so many opportunities for general liability issues. If something happens there, the friends could be sued, potentially. When you say hosting. Yep, so they're organizing hosting. The town is just a town's building, but friends are... No, it's really something different though. I mean, maybe that's what you need. But the friends, so the birthday party, so if we had everything in place that we want to have in place, Denise wouldn't even know that there'd been a birthday party request. It would have gone to the friends committee. Friends would have said birthday party, how many kids, is there going to be a donkey? Yes, no. And they're organizing it. Right, they're the ones that are approving the usage requests. They're approving usage requests. They're not organizing in the center, sitting around as a function movement, so it wasn't a birthday party. Yeah, they would. The whole idea was to have it so that the friends manage the use of this space upstairs for non-municipal events. Right, so hosting would be, so let's just... Hosting to me means that the parents are there. Well, the parents are hosting the birthday party. But the friends are not there hosting in person. They're not hosting it. There's a rental agreement to somebody to fill out to request to use the space upstairs, and it would be managed through the friends group to do this. On behalf of the town. Right. You know, but it's still a town building. Correct, so there's a lot of players there. Yeah. And a lot of different possible scenarios. Yes, the parents are hosting. There's all their kids. So if it's a big party, a lot going on, then that's possibly a case where the parents should policy if it's really big. If it's five kids and it's... You know, there's no donkey. No donkey. But maybe everybody feels comfortable that it's pretty mundane. But if it's larger, you've got 45 kids running around in every event, bouncy house, those are bigger. So there is certainly some liability on the parents part because they've organized it. They've posted it. The friends have potentially some liability there. Something happens because they're very aware that they know everything going on, how many people they've permitted to use. You could, if a lot of the things are big enough, it could potentially go to all layers. We've seen something like that happen. That's what this is. It's a layered situation. Yeah, I mean, it's very small. It might just go to the first layer. So it sounds like what we're at is that the friends group is close to securing a policy. Once that happens, and we have this management agreement in place, then we're good to go to start renting the upstairs. Yeah. And it isn't very... Right? I think that's true. I think it's true. I'd like to look at the policy. Would you send us the policy? I'd like to look at it. I think this is a situation which is with layered insurance. And the more, the better. So it's, of course, passive wants them to have insurance. Why not? Right. It's one more pocket. We're looking actually to send the friends in a suit because they're not our owner. So, of course, they could be left playing dry. So we just want to see somebody. I think we can cover them right. And there sounds like they're very well aware of that. And they're working on it. And they'll get back to us when they have the policy. We can work on this management agreement and get the doors open. Right. So even though we are contracting and they're doing work on behalf of the town, we basically, we can't contract or delegate that. She's not saying that. She's saying that she doesn't really know for sure. It depends on the situation. So why not have another layer of insurance? Right. And every contract is different. Yeah, right. You may have a contract that's very one-sided. You've seen those. Some contracts are very even. Some say, hey, you're responsible for everything, right? So we were kind of upset because they just hired somebody to do it. Again, I want to look at, can we, I'm conscious that we have people here. Right, right. We got to keep things. So, but I think that I would like to see the policy. I'll report back to you guys on sort of what I see in it. Yep. And we'll wait until we hear from Cliff and when they have insurance, right? Yeah, okay. Make sure I wasn't missing any of your key questions. Do you guys have any questions about volunteers? Well, I think that's all. That's a little different. Well, I think that's all benign right now, based on this discussion. Okay. Just want to make sure that we have any questions. Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you for coming. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Don't feel free to do anything else. Don't feel free to do anything else. Got my talents in there, John. Okay. Let's move on to Curtis Pawn. Dan, are you kidding? Okay. I want the record to reflect this point. Katie, are you there? Yep. I'm watching you. The record has to reflect that I'm accusing myself on matters related to the Curtis Pawn dam, my own property on Curtis Pawn, whether I have a legal conflict, doesn't matter, appearance is such that it's not proper. So I am accusing myself. I will now move to the audience. Yes. And I will answer questions, but other more area that individuals will make presentations. Okay. So I move to Curtis here. So let's move right along. Okay. Where are you? I'm just going to do a quick question. Okay, ladies. Ladies. So we're reading, Kelly. It's really hard to finish moving along on the meeting when people are having a sidebar. I'm sorry, I'm not being visible about it, but you can either go in the kitchen or read it by the elevator. Colleen, are you? Yeah, I thought I was going to just do the briefing introduction. Grab a chair. Do you have a grab a chair where I am? No, grab a chair. And I wasn't here at the meeting. A mask's optional? Or what? Yeah. Okay. So I wanted to... We like hard coffees. Yeah, me too. I like hard coffees. We're an old town. We're a very old pond. I think you have to be over 65 on the mask. The property on the pond. So the beginning of our brief history, you heard it all before. I wasn't going to read it if you don't need me to. We started a while ago. We've done a lot before. I do a lot of credit for that. Endless meetings. So our ask is, we sent out the MOU. I know that Denise read it. Yeah, I had quite a bit of a comment on it. The Mark draft did that. Thank you very much, Mark. Thank you guys for coming to the meeting at Marge's house. Oh yeah. We have here Marguini, which you all know. It's a major move for us today. That is part of the CPA map. We got the email. And we need to go to the girls. She is, she's a recent addition to our board secretary. We're very lucky to have her. From East Boutillier. She's our token. She's our token. She's our token East Palace person. So we do have diversity here. That's great. And so our ask is to look at the MOU. It's our only way forward to get the talent involved. And we feel like, as Mark always describes it, there's so many catch 22s. And there's so many chicken and egg scenarios that it's like a real estate deal. When the closing happens, all this stuff happens. And I think only a lawyer could sort of draw that up. So that's our ask. I guess we talk about the MOU and what your lawyer said. And then we wanted to briefly go on to our next steps because we're sort of already doing them, the ones that don't cost anything. We've had a great conversation with Lay's office. We've had a great conversation with FEMA. And a center Vermont for the doc, what are those new things coming? Oh yeah, that's for everyone. What's that? All those fundings that are coming. Yeah, ARPA money that comes from center Vermont planning. So we're doing due diligence on all those. So that's pretty much it. And I think we should open up to questions. So I know Jim, our town attorney is here. And he's reviewed the document. And he's on Zoom. If he was here, he'd know. Okay. Right, Jim? Right to these. Okay. So I asked Katie to put the document in the folder that Jim commented on. Looking at it from... What happened to the document? Katie, where's the document? That's it, right? Okay, that's it. Okay, it has Jim's edits in there. So, Mark, sit down and be quiet. All right, so let's move along. Did everybody on the board have a chance to read the document? I sent questions to... I saw it. I had one... I guess I'm curious about one thing. And I have one specific request. I will start with my specific request being in the place that it asserts... I'm not looking at it right now. I don't think there's a... Yeah, at the very top of what we can see, the town would lose substantial assessed value, which absence and immediate reduction would require... Yeah. Where are you? Oh, I see, right here. You're right there. This result in reduction in value of those properties considerably estimated, but possibly much greater. Anyway, so it would be... I think that came out of the modeling you did, but it's an assertion without an authority. So it would be great to have some actual facts. In the MOU? I mean, in the MOU? Yeah, or at least what noted, maybe, because that's a bold statement that it would cost us... Well, I know they do have that information, so we could do it as an attachment. I have that, but... And I did run the information. No, I know... Sharon's asking, I think, that we have something with this document to prove that assertion, that the property values would be diminished. Right, and they have that document. It's easy enough to attach it. We saw it. We, you guys, showed... You did some modeling here. I mean, often we say things here that we know, but this is bigger than us here in this group. And I remember seeing it, but... Are you looking for the spreadsheets that we did to do that? What should we promote here? It's not really me so much as a... Like maybe there's an attachment that's... But do you need that? I guess my question is, do you need that for an MOU that doesn't obligate us to anything? And I guess I just... I want... Yes, it doesn't need to be in it, but a reference point, a footnote, that says this model presented to the select board on this date, which demonstrates something that backs up, because that is kind of the... That's the case, right? That's the business case. And so having it really strongly stated as a... And we would need that when we go to the voters. That doesn't mean that it's part of the MOU. It needs to be part of the MOU, right? I mean, we would need it for maybe... A footnote saying that this document exists is one thing. No, it's fine. Something that references it, so that anybody reading the MOU can say, oh, where is that? That kind of jumped out at me. And then the other thing is... I maybe I missed something, but it feels like we flipped from the town from Denise and John being appointed as just kind of... Well, I'm not to diminish your role, but the town has an interest, and we're willing to have a liaison as a president, but this feels like it's flipping it back to be absolutely the town more in the lead, or in the lead. Some of the language was, the town will, the town will, the town will. And right, but it is the town. It's will, but it's soft in terms of what we're obligating ourselves to. Say more about that, because I'm still... Well, I kind of grew up... I wasn't on the board when you guys looked at this before, but what I've heard over and over and over from kind of the legacy conversation is that the dam doesn't belong to the town. Right, right. And so, you know... Right, I think this MOU hopes to get us further down the road and getting to that point. The idea is that we're going to work in good faith with the dam group and the property owners supporting the dam rebuild, replacement or whatever. It doesn't obligate the town to fund it. That's going to be a bond vote. It's going to be a vote of the people, probably two votes, right? What do we do it? And then whether we bond, there's still a what I call the final engineering design. Mark helped me 60 grand fall apart, but you know, something in that... And so the town is not saying we're going to pay that through this MOU, but we'll work toward collectively trying to figure out how to get that paid. I do want an agreement somewhat with Sharon and just to point out what was raised in our meetings. Denise and I did meet with a small cadre of the dam group. The assertion that the decreased assessment and the rest of the town bearing a commensurate increase, it's not necessarily accurate because, and I don't know what the number is and we talked about this. Okay, so that is that that adjustment is considered. That's a 25 percent. It used to be as four times as much. Oh, okay. That's a 25 percent one. Yeah, so then I cut it back. Okay, okay. So this is a little bit of fuzzy math because as we all know, we have statewide education tax formulary and a lion's share of our property taxes, 75 percent, we're marked at that number I guess, 25, 75 percent goes to school fund our schools pretty much every year. And of that 75 percent, a large portion goes to the state education fund, which then gets reallocated. It comes back at us, but according to their formulary, it ends every year. It's based on student numbers and all sorts of factors. And so if we were a gold town like Stowe, they have high property values, a million dollar properties, that money goes into the fund. They if their property suddenly collapsed to that of, you know, market, they wouldn't then have to pick up that difference between a million and a 200 thousand dollar property. They would no longer be a liability. So it's it's a very complicated thing and to come up with a number and say, definitely going to have to pick that up. On the highway end, that's true. You have to reallocate. That's a 25 percent budget piece. But anyone says one. And where so what I, one of my takeaways when we were looking at the modeling that March is that the group was actually thinking through. I don't think we've done this ever in Calis before, but thinking through, what would it look like if the property owners pick that up disproportion? You know, assessment, assessment district, an assessment district. And there's nothing. I'm not sure when that would come, when that sort of piece would kind of hit the stride of the project. I'm gathering it's premature, but I want to make sure that we don't lose that concept. No, that's definitely part of what I read in here. Okay, it was part of an assessment district. Okay. I mean, this MOU, in my mind, doesn't commit us to really anything. It's just kind of an MOU laying out processes. That we're going to move forward, because this thing's been language. Yeah, right. Yeah, the idea of the recognition has been language thing. Right, it's been on them. And we all need to. But 2004. 2004. And that we're going to revive it and the interest has been revived and the select board is interested as well. Right, and we're finally out of a group that is willing to step up just leave it to the select board to take care of recognizing the problems associated with the cost of something like this. And that's where before we talked about an assessment district and everybody was like, no way, we're not doing that. But this new group is a little more open to well, if we ever want to get this done, maybe we have to think about that. So I didn't know, Rick, if you have any comments, Jim's here, if he wants to weigh in as our town attorney. I mean, my comments, sorry. Again, I'm concerned for fairness to the trustee. I like the idea of an assessment district. You know, it's a largely it's a private dam, it's a largely private property. I know there's a private dam and I know this is a really valuable asset into the to the town and the people. I also am conscious of, you know, who has access to the majority. You know, I just, I think that needs to be made. So we do have a town beach. And there is. We do, I know. And we do. And we do that. We do that. I do. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I'm not saying you have no. I am. I am. But I just want to make sure that it's not a lot or sometimes a few. This is not. I don't know who. That's where I like the idea. Okay. So you were here when they were talking about that and there was like a. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's four or five different ways of the assessment district. Yeah. And I'm good with that. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's that's really good. That's. Yeah. Yeah. One of my comments was. On. In the events. You found some time. Well, that too. About the dam being rebuilt. Which I thought that was an excellent one. Very uncertain that the state would permit the construction of a replacement. That's what. Right. Right. I think that's what we had found out. I think basically. This my understanding is. On the books right now. No. No dam permits are being. Approved. Period. New dam permits. Right. In actuality. There's. Elves. Right. I mean. Yeah. That's. There's never a lot of. Clear. Right now. The state. The dam. New rivers. The dam. Breaks. They will not. That's right. Make. But they want maintenance. Right. Yeah. This is a maintenance. So what else. One of the things. And then if it breaks. Then it's not a maintenance. Right. That's right. It is. That's right. So it will. Which they on. Legally right now. They're saying. Right. Right. And that's. Once it is wetland. You know all that kind of stuff. Well, that's why. I'm in the MOU. That we need to be clear. That if it for to fail. The state isn't going to let us rebuild it. And I think that's it. I mean, I think it's a good point. I'll speak to myself. But you know the state will tell you. I've had many conversations. Then we'll use that. The the recent precedent. Meaning the last 20 years. Has been not to allow dam to fail. To be. Yeah. Reinstalled. But they are still. Reviewed case by case. And that's what they would say. So chances are. They'd say no. Right. But they still would say it's case by case. Or potentially delay it for a few years. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's right. And then we have a more. Or it might be more expensive. Well, it works. But all those things. And that's where in this paragraph. It starts out in the event of. And getting to the point about the assessment district. The town would lose substantial assessed value. Which absent. An immediate reduction in the town budget. Would require a competency. Compensatory increase in taxes for all property. And I think here is where. We could put in parentheses. Assessment district. To make it clear that that is something we're going to look at. Current fund assessment district. No. Something whatever it's called. Yeah. But anyways, back to my original question. Do you want Jim to weigh in? Or absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Take it away Jim. Well, I'll just comment very briefly to say that I think that Mark did an excellent job of putting this together. I really don't have any comments beyond what I provided to you in writing. To the extent I'm here in discussion about pointing out assessment district financing for this. My thought would be maybe to add the term proposed in paragraph six. Where it says proposed assessment financing. To just insert the word district after assessment. Beyond that, I really don't have any additional comments for you Denise. Okay. Now. Oh. District. That's where you're talking about on six. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I kind of pointed out a couple of typos which you guys are sure to take care of. One of the things that in the paragraph should the dam collapse. Let's not forget that there's been a swim program at the pond for eight years. I don't know how long it's been a long time. I've had 80 plus year old people say I learned to swim there and learn to swim program. And you always put your salt because of all the leeches. That's what they always add on. Now we have no leeches because of I think. So if we're going to list all the things that would be effective and put in that because some people will say, oh yeah. The island, the swim area, the fishing game. I mean, we're the number one best pond of the state. We hold the current and the current record and. Are we the only swimming program left? Well, I'm talking about about fishing. Oh, yeah. I'm on fishing now. The best, I mean, we get people from all over the place. It's really known as the best. Wow. And you should see our parade of boats on Saturdays and Sunday mornings. I bet. And it's amazing. But anyways, so I always like to point that out as well as the swim program because it's a big fishing access thing. They just put in a new big. And we know that the fishing has a big pier. What do you call that? They just put in a big deal. They just did a foundation of the fishing access. Oh, yeah. Well, that's not a ramp. It's a it's a big dock that a bigger boat could come down and over people or whatever that can easily step on like, yeah, no, it's a big deal. I guess can we go down to the, I want Mark wanted to say something. Yeah, Mark, you might just say some language change. You might put it in the paragraph. That's the second paragraph. So I'm assuming you guys are going to make these changes that we're talking about. So long standing callous program you cease to exist. So can I ask a question? Are you working on this agreement thing on number two? It says the damn exploratory group will assist. I thought we were saying that it's the current pond association. So yeah, we were trying to say let's not differentiate. Well, I think we should just keep it consistent. Yeah, that sounds good. We try switching over to the answer. I think that was missed. Initially we did the group, but then we switched it to the first one. Yeah, no, that's a good point. We'll just keep the CPA. Okay, and then same thing in number three. It talks about the damn exploratory group. Well, we do say the CPA through the damn. Yeah, okay. Because we tried to not click in the damn exploratory group so people would see what happened to that. Right, right, right. They sizzled. So those were my questions. And then a couple of titles, each of us. Well, we say the town will explore and then the current pond association will assist. As a practical matter, is the effort going to continue largely the way that it has, or is there going to be a little appreciative flipping of the rules? Another one. We see it as it continues to be on. Okay, so you guys are very happy to continue. Yeah, and that's what we're told is that our meeting. And we just, we hit dead ends again and again and again. Is this a private group or is this a town? This is the town. This is forward. This is making it so that they can move forward. Move forward on all these attempts. Grants, you name it. Okay, that's fine. Yeah. One thing that we kind of need some clarification is we know when do you guys run us, how often do you run us? Before that happened. We do work for the Liaison. We do work for you for every year Liaison. Yeah, we don't want to almost step out of that. Right, right. But we want you guys to know what we're doing. Right, but I think that I think you guys know enough about the history, what we're looking at now, and you've been good at communicating. So I'm putting it, you know, kind of on you guys to let us know when you need to talk with us. And we are very happy to do that. And we wanted to convey our sense of urgency. Yeah. I mean, we think this big weather event is, you just had to listen to the news, August and September. It's around the corner. Yeah. I think it's hypothetical anymore. Yeah. And it's, you know, so we wanted to say we don't want to get this through, like, 2027. Are we going to mark the con associations that are taking leave and making the credits? And then next meeting, we'll formally approve and sign. One option for you is for you to approve the MOU, with the suggested changes to move that tonight. Then what we'll do is we'll make the secretarial changes and bring it back to you. And we can just sign it. Right. Sign it. And we can just sign it. We can just, right, we can just, you do all that kind of. And then we can just approve it. And I know nothing, it takes five minutes, but hopefully five minutes to approve the MOU and sign it. Well, that's that. We'll approve the MOU now with the understanding that you won't sign it until we give you back the corrected one. We get to approve it with the changes. I think it's, I think. But we, there's some edit paragraphs. Yeah. I think, I think let's have you guys do the edit. Send it back to us just so we're all sure we got all the edits we want. Yeah. If we're going to, if we're going to take five minutes on it, we might as well approve it next time. Yeah. So basically then that cover, we can see all our next steps. Yeah. And the only last one, begin informational meetings. We'd really like to do that with you, not just, you know, no, the people, order people. We'd really like to do that in conjunction with you. Right. And then, you know, any of us can show up at the informational meeting. I mean, we'd love you a couple of you too. Yeah. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. That's, thank you for waiting. And then Denise, Denise and John, you just great that everybody's here. And it's also great we have Denise and John to bring us little updates as we, as we need them. Yeah. You guys don't have to always speak, coming out on them. Especially when it gets yucky. Yeah. I'm just curious if there was anyone on the team that was part of it. Yeah. Yeah. There's Hayes out there. There's John Rosenblum, Jamie. There's Virginia Clammer. There's Bev Heiss. David Ellenbogen. I don't know if she pardoned. Yeah. I know he's there right after he was part of the group. Does anybody from the Zoom people have any comment? Okay. Just a thank you for moving forward. I just want to point out we have an enthusiastic group. And so we don't want to get stuck. If we can give the animal use sign quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Next meeting. You don't have to leave the comments. Right. Next meeting. And Mark will sit over there and we'll go on inside. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for doing that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I'll see you. Thank you. Thank you. So Jim, anything else? Cookies were great, but we don't look any of this late. Well, they keep me up all night, too. I just want to make sure Jim, Jim, do you have anything else? I'm good, Denise. Are you good with me? I think so, yeah. Okay. I'm going to leave now. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for Zooming. We saved you a cookie. Have a great evening, everyone. Thank you. Who's going to leave now? I'm going to stop so I don't need to leave. This is so old, but none of that. So can I make a motion that we approve the signing of the Adamant C.L.G. nomination to National Historic where you got yourself? Oh, thank you. So loud. I don't know if Katie heard that. I can't hear anything. I approve the signing of the Adamant C.L.G. nomination to the National Historic Register. Thank you. A second was by Rick. Actually, I think it was Mark. And we all said aye. Okay, so we approve this. I bet all the minutes, I think, today. Yeah, okay, good. I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes with all the changes. No, no, no, wait, wait, wait. Sorry. So we're signing the C.L.G. There's only space for my signature. Okay, so. Have you all all signed it? Somebody want to authorize me to sign it? Sure. The motion includes an authorization. Please sign it. Okay, done. Next. Next up, there's not today's nothing. You know what I think, by the way, I think I wanted just one item. I'm going to take this MOU and put everything in it that I thought everybody wanted and all the corrections. Right. And I'm going to send it to you guys. That's fine. But wait, they all have to sign. So what I want to do is get you guys back, like, no, I didn't say that. Or whatever. Right, get them to the blessings. Then just tell me it's okay. Then I will cut it off, get all of them. Them decide it. No, well, but you want them to sign it first. No, well, I think what you're saying is we're going to be more thinking. Yeah, so they've already said that. Yeah, so I am. Yeah, so you're going to want us to sign. Yeah, yeah. Great. Thank you. How was your trip? How was your vacation? Wait a minute. We're still in session. No, let's go. Okay, so other updates. You're in an early meeting. I think we can be. I can use a drink. It's 9 30. It's not almost. And so let's, you want to do minutes? We are. Yeah. Are we going to do a bunch at the same time? I will. We prove all the minutes. That has to revive. It's sharing. I make comments. And I'm pretty sure that I went through all of them. I did. I went through a second. Okay. All of those. Okay. Can anybody like how my new motion to adjourn? So moved. Okay. You can't go anywhere dear until you wash your glass so that I don't know that an email saying somebody left a mess. You're way more fun. I'm going to say. Okay, so we are done.