 Hi everybody, welcome to the latest episode from the Rock for the Cloud and as always I am your baffled technical host Tom Hall. I work in the Microsoft team here in the UK and you know we try and find out things about server and hopefully pass that knowledge on to you all the lovely people out there. So today as we always do we try and find an expert we've found an expert and we've gone all the way up to Scotland again to find another expert. And you know this episode we're going to be talking to Lisa Clark. So Lisa say hello to everybody. Hi everybody, thanks for having me. Lovely. And Lisa just for everybody a quick reminder because we had you on season one but now we're back on season two. Who you are and what do you do? Yeah, back again but this time with a new hair color so definitely need a reintroduction. My name is Lisa Clark and I am a Microsoft MVP and I work at Dell Technologies within the Azure Stack team. Our team is responsible for driving Azure Stack business across Dell and helping our customers and our partners achieve their hybrid cloud dreams with Azure Stack HCI. So yeah it's a fun job. Well I mean that's no small feat like helping people achieve their dreams which is a big statement right there so thank you for doing that. And today we're talking about the difference between Azure Stack HCI and Windows Server 2022 and maybe what people maybe understand one way or the other. What the confusion or the differences is and you're going to let us know a few things and you know there's a lot of good stuff happening around that. So let's talk about that a little bit more today. Yes, yeah hopefully we can. I'll share my thoughts around it and how I see them and the differences between them and why you might want to use one over the other or you know just try and help clarify things a little bit because Microsoft have a lot of options when it comes to hybrid and they're definitely leading the way doing hybrid properly and options are great but they can also sometimes be confusing. So I thought we'd just spend some time today and just work through you know what are the differences. And you know that's brilliant because I'm confused so first of all you can help me and then you can help the audience and like you're exactly right because there's been you know Server 2022 launched big claims it's the most hybrid you know OS ever with kind of but then kind of when I've been talking to people who talk to you know for example like Sarah and she's been telling me Sarah Lee and she's been telling me like you know some of the new features and talk to all sorts of people and then they're like but this one you can only use on the Azure Stack you know Azure Stack piece and you know there's kind of bits here and there and it does get a little confusing and you know hopefully what I'm sort of hoping for is you know some simplicity from today so yeah you know that would be great. So you know let's ask the first question which would be when should a customer use Azure Stack HCI or when should they use Windows Server 2022 I suppose if we break it down to scenarios. Okay, yeah right okay so let's talk about Azure Stack HCI first Microsoft describes Azure Stack HCI is its premier hyperconverged infrastructure platform for running virtual machines so it's a stripped down version of Windows Server and it's focused specifically on being an operating system for hyperconverged infrastructure. So it means that the OS takes up less resource is a smaller attack vector but I think it's really important to start thinking about Azure Stack HCI as a cloud service rather with a cloud service that includes an operating system rather than just an operating system. It's also important to remember that Azure Stack HCI does not provide any guest licensing benefits so you know any virtual machines that you run on top of that would need to be licensed accordingly. So when should a customer use it? Customers who want the best virtualization host to modernize their infrastructure either for their existing workloads or for emerging requirements for edge locations. Customers who really want that easy extensibility into the cloud and a consistent set of tools to manage their you know on-prem workloads and they're in the cloud workloads. Customers who want and are okay with a far more regular update cadence and features. I think especially basically if the customer is planning to or is already running workloads in Azure and wants a consistent and seamless management experience and they want to bring those Azure governance and management constructs like policies, tags, resource scripts. They want to bring those to their on-prem workloads and modernize the way you're consuming your operating system as well because the operating system is consumed from Azure like any other Azure service. So you know it's kind of modernizing from an infrastructure level and really changing how you consume that license as well. So it's quite different in that way. I would say that Azure Stack HCI is Microsoft's answer. We said we had a lot of options, right? But it's like the answer to true hybrid cloud. As an Azure service, it will have deeper integration with Azure and therefore it's like if you're all in with Azure and you need to run workloads on-prem, this is the one for you. Okay. So that's Azure Stack HCI. Yeah. Windows Server 2022 is the new version in Windows Server that we all know and love. It's the new version in the two to three year lifecycle. And it's if we say that Azure Stack HCI is a cloud service that has an operating system. Windows Server is a highly versatile, multi-purpose operating system with tons of different roles, which includes those guest rights. So if you want to use one of the roles built in like Active Directory or File Service, then Windows Server is for you. You can also run it anywhere. So you can run it on bare metal as a hypervisor. You could run it on a virtual machine running in Azure or an AWS if you wanted to go that way. So you can use it as the guest OS inside your virtual machines, but then you can use it as a traditional server for a domain controller or SQL server installation. And you might want to keep your traditional way of licensing and the support model that you know and love as well. Also, Windows Server would be used in environments where you need to be entirely disconnected because remember Azure Stack HCI requires you to be connected to Azure once every 30 days for billing purposes. Yeah. So yeah, Windows Server has been focused on applications, right? And it is and will continue to be a fantastic application runtime. Whereas Azure Stack HCI is purely focused on at the infrastructure level, which then you run your applications on top. Either Windows or Linux VMs on Azure Kubernetes Service, which you can also run on Windows Server. So there's also that similarity as well. Yeah. I suppose it comes down to those almost like cost scenarios and how you want to do your billing and how much resource you want to use. You know, if you're comfortable, you know, I suppose paying for the guest licenses and then you want to do it that way in Azure Stack. Or if you want to make use of those, you know, if you buy a data center license in a traditional way, you want to make use of those unlimited VMs. There's lots of little things in there that actually for some people, one thing might be better or the other. So there's no, I just want to clarify, there's no right or wrong. It's actually more to do with you understanding the scenario of what you've got. And then also understanding the kind, I suppose, the end state of where you want to get to, you know, what does five years look like for me as a business owner or me as a solutions architect that I'm providing that service. Where do I want to go and take that person and that business and that, you know, that estate and solution? What's the right thing to get me there? And actually, what can what can people afford? Because, you know, like it's often when I talk to someone like yourself. This is brilliant. Actually, then you would to cost it. And you'd be like, holy moly. There's like absolutely no way that we could afford to do like that's perfect in a world where there's unlimited resources. But actually, for say, like a small business partner, actually that Windows Server bit is probably better today. And then actually, once you start scaling, then you're going to want the Azure stack. And that kind of like, I suppose what I've taken from it. So there's no right or wrong everybody. There's no right or wrong. You've got to take a look at features that are available in each one of them. Like I say, Windows Server is that multi-purpose flex. Lots of different things with it operating system. Azure Stack 8.0 is focused on doing a few things really, really well. And yeah, it really does depend on the feature sets that you're looking for and what you're looking to run. And actually, it's fun because you can either way, either way you cut it, you can have a really small instance of Azure Stack HCI actually be too far. So really it does depend, but cost is always important. We know that. And this is a different way of doing things like say the cost is for the operating system and it's purely just for the operating system. Brings it in line with some of the other hypervisors out there in the market, but it is a different move for Microsoft. So it'll be interesting to see how it develops in the future as well because it's very early days. And it's true. And the other thing that I gained knowledge on is you need to talk to an expert like Lisa Clark that she'll help you with this. Lisa, what are the differences between the management options for Windows Server and Azure Stack HCI? Once you've gone down one of these two routes, you've got different management options. What are the options within those two spheres? So you've got all of the options that you know and love with Windows Admin Center still there. However, Microsoft is focusing really heavily on Windows Admin Center. And so actually for both Windows Server 2022 and Azure Stack HCI, you can use Windows Admin Center to manage both of them, which is pretty awesome. You can also use, and again, this is why people are confused, but it's about options, right? You can use the Azure portal to manage both of them to different depths, right? So because Azure Stack HCI is natively integrated into Azure, so it has its own resource provider in Azure. So you log into Azure, see Azure Stack HCI as its own only resource provider. That means that you can use the Azure portal to manage your Azure Stack HCI. But because it is an Azure service that's natively integrated, you can manage that to the cluster level, which is a differentiation point, right? So with Azure Stack HCI, you get a deeper level of integration, you can manage it at the cluster level. However, with Windows Server, you can also gain management capability from Azure using Azure Arc, right? So Azure Arc for servers, you can deploy the agent into your virtual machine, and then you can manage the virtual machines from Azure as well. So you can use Windows Admin Center and you can use the Azure portal to slightly, just now varying, let's say, depths of the infrastructure. So for now, this is an area where there are many similarities between Windows Server and Azure Stack HCI from that management perspective. But as Azure Stack HCI evolves, because of its nature as an Azure service, things that you can do with Azure Stack HCI and Azure portal will only get better, right? And provide much more sort of consistent management experience across on-prem and in the cloud. But like I say, there are options. So if Windows Server is for you and you need those roles that you know and love in Windows Server, but you also want to have some hybrid capability, Windows Server 2022 has delivered on that and there is integration there as well. Cool. So we're starting to get into, I suppose, the product offering perspective because obviously you're saying that Windows Server is delivering on a few things. Let's talk about the key differences between Windows Server and Azure Stack HCI from, I suppose, that product offering perspective. Yeah. Because I think actually, if you look at them as a product offering from Microsoft, you can start to see where the differentiations lie. And it helps paint this picture, right? And I think it's a picture that hopefully over time is going to get clearer and clearer. But yeah, do my best to paint it a little bit today. So at a very basic level, Azure Stack HCI is really a cloud service, whilst Windows Server is an operating system. As we've always known, it's a traditional operating system. And this is made clearer by not only the difference in consumption models, but also the fact that so Windows Server has its own end-user license agreement, right? Whereas Azure Stack HCI is covered under the Microsoft Customer Agreement or your online subscription agreement that you sign up to when you start to consume all Azure services. So even at these basic levels, there's differences. Support-wise as well, they differ, right? So Windows Server can be covered by different options you might be used to having Microsoft Premiere support. Whereas Azure Stack HCI is covered under the Azure support model. So there's differences there. Even just the way you can download Azure Stack HCI from Azure, but you have to go to the Microsoft Volume Licensing Centre for Windows Server. Azure Stack HCI is... Not for much longer? Yes. Anyway, sorry. Yes, they will both become accessible from Azure. But just now, I think just now, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, no. I think it has happened. But yeah, I think the Volume Licensing has moved across. Oh, okay. There you go. No longer a difference, adding to the confusion. All right. But yeah, so Azure Stack HCI is intended as a host OS whereas you can run Windows Server in virtual machines on-premises or running in Azure. So there's the difference there as well. If you run Windows Server anywhere, Azure Stack HCI is intended as a host OS. From a lifecycle perspective, we know that Azure Stack HCI is going to get annual releases and Windows Servers will remain on a two to three year. And from a technical feature perspective, we know that things like stretch clustering which is available in Azure Stack HCI won't be coming to Windows Server. And there was a few things released in the recent release of Azure Stack HCI as well like kernel soft reboot, things like that. They'll be coming to Azure Stack HCI rather than Windows Server. So I think the difference between the two just now is as small as it will ever be. The gap is only going to widen and hopefully the picture is only going to get clearer. One of the other things that, and again, you can connect to me if I'm wrong, but the extended security updates for workloads such as Windows Server and SQL 2008, 2008 R2 and the 2012 workloads that are coming out of date, you can get extended security updates by moving those to Azure Stack HCI. So that's the difference just now as well. Yeah, no, so I don't need to correct you on that one. That's okay. So Azure Stack HCI, how's its license, how's it consumed? Because that's something we, you know, again, people get a little bit confused about and if they're used to buying, I suppose, a traditional license in a traditional way, it's a little bit different because you buy your hardware, it's got a new OS on it, but it's not got a cost, but then you turn it on, you go to Azure and then you start getting build and everyone gets a bit confused. So yeah, what's going on there? Yeah, so Azure Stack HCI, I know this is the funny part, right? Because is it, can we call it licensed anymore? Yeah. Because it's consumed. It's consumed as a service from Azure. So it's on a consumption basis from Azure and it's $10 per core per month or the local equivalent. Actually, so Dell, I don't know if I'm allowed to mention this, but we're cool with that. We're not. But you work with Dell, like, you know, tell us about Dell. It's not information. It's fine. As long as it's not an information, we're just like, okay. Other OEMs are available. But Dell is the best. But it needs to be in your office. Fine. Right, now carry on. I'm going to get you into trouble. So yeah, we're talking about this. So it's $10 per core per month, right? And like you say, it is when you start using it. So when you light it up and you connect it to Azure and it starts getting build, like all your other consumption based services. So we recently added a capability into our open managed integration with Windows Admin Center. It's a mouthful, which allows customers to write size to CPU cores for the workflow performance. But also allows customers to, like, optimise their TCO when it comes to that OPEX bend on the Azure Stack HCI OS. So for instance, a customer could invest in a hardware platform that has more cores than they're going to be using initially. And therefore, within Windows Admin Center we can write size that with that open managed integration. So the customers can pay for only the cores that they are currently using with Azure Stack HCI OS. And then as they start to draw and consume and need more of that hardware, they can then also, they can adjust the CPU core count. Which is quite cool actually. It's there for that purpose. So for you to, you know, grow and update as you as you consume more cores as part of your platform. But yeah, so yeah, it's, and again, that's very different from the traditional licensing model. And again, that's where all the cost conversations come into because it's quite different. People are not used to that. People are not used to having to pay for the operating system and then worry about licensing workflows on top. Especially if they are predominantly Windows Server, right? You know, you're exactly right. I suppose with Windows Server, you've bought it. You've got your, you know, standard 16 core license in there. Happy days. And I can just buy two extra cores as I need them in those additional licenses. Fine. But this is slightly different. This is actually it's per month, you know, you're punching up and down and kind of like it's a bit different and it changes. But there's always that point of kind of crossover where this way when you get to a certain size gets more cost effective. So you kind of just, you know, people just need to kind of weigh up what they want to do, how they want to do it, what results they're going to use the cloud for. Because, you know, if you're not going to do, you know, you stretch clustering and those kind of take advantage of those amazing things that you can do with the Azure side of things. Well, then actually, then you're probably answering the question, well, maybe Windows Server 22 is right for me. You kind of like, you know, people need to figure that stuff out themselves. That's just about like, it depends what you're running on top of them, right? Because if you are running a significant amount of Windows Server virtual machines, then yes, Windows Server because of that unlimited guest OS option, that's going to be your pick. And if you're, if that's what you're predominantly running, then yes. If you're running predominantly Linux or you're starting to consume AKS and you want to start consuming more Azure services on prem on top of AKS then maybe it's Azure CI. And actually coming on to that, you can use both, right? So that was going to be my next question. My next question was like, do you have to choose now? Tell me why I wouldn't have to choose. You can use both because well, two different ways, right? So you could be running Azure Stack HCI and then you could be running Windows Server as the guest OS on your virtual machines. You could apply a secondary OS to get the unlimited guest VM licenses too. There's a licensing hack for everybody right there? Just now. Things are fast changes. But then also right, customer might look to have both like a mix of Windows Server 2022 and Azure Stack HCI within their environment, not within the same cluster set, but within their environment. Maybe they want to focus their Azure Stack HCI clusters on edge scenarios that they have or remote branch office scenarios that they have or where they have to deploy multiple dispersed infrastructures. They want to essentially manage them from Azure. So you can use both. You absolutely can use both and get the best of both worlds depending on where you as a customer are as part of your journey, but also where your workloads are and what they need. So you absolutely can use both. Like I said, they are at their most similar point right now. The gaps only going to begin widen in terms of capabilities and where and why you would use each of them. Yeah, I think we're going to see feature updates obviously coming to Azure Stack HCI OS on an annual basis, but I think there's going to be developments around technologies around Azure Stack HCI, right? Like with Azure Arc. For me, I think Azure Arc is that crossover piece that it makes both of them so accessible. It's exciting and also as well as a Microsoft employee by the shareholder. I'm more than happy for anybody to buy both and use them all at the same time. That's fine. So more great advice from Lisa. So do what Lisa says, buy everything and use everything as much as possible. Perfect. We're moving to that fun part of the show, Lisa. Yes. It's the meme review as always with every episode. If you the audience have got a meme, please send it and if you've got comments on the meme let us know. These are always meme plastic. I always look a bit silly because I generally speaking don't know what I'm talking about and then obviously we've got an expert like Lisa and she looks at it and no pressure and can usually see the funny side of it. Right, let's jump into the meme. This is a busy one, loads of writing. Boss, the server is down. Well, just restart it. It's not that simple. No, because you've broken it. Yeah, because down, lying down. Also it is not that simple. No, it's not. Although I mean the first go-to piece of advice from any person you ask about any technical thing is to turn it on and turn it off again. Turn it off and turn it on. That's true. Maybe if they were using the hot patch from Windows Server 22 then actually that wouldn't have happened and it would be an issue because it would have been a savory but nobody would even know. That's Windows Server 22 is it the Azure edition or is that an actual Windows? It is the Azure edition, yes it is. Let's see, there we are. This is why we get an expert. There is more layers to it now with Windows Server Azure edition. Like you say, lots of options. Yeah, and there's also quite a few hard drives there I can see. We definitely like it. A restart is not going to fix that particular issue. That's my technical opinion. There we are. The technical opinion that can't be fixed. Right, meme number two. Evolution of memory storage. Oh, it's quite thoughtful this one. One is evolution t-shirts that people, you know, trendy people wear. Member USBs. I still love USBs. I'm not going to ask that age, but I'm there with floppy disks and actually floppy disks not even floppy disks but the old banana disks. Do you remember banana disks? No, so I started at that second stage, the square floppy disk and then I spent most of my life I would say in the disk and USB space. Okay, but it's true if you think about a USB stick like from, I don't know, like 10 years ago, you were lucky to have like eight megabytes or something stupid on a, do you know what I mean? That was massive and now if a limited cloud just go to hell. Well, just use OneDrive by the way. Another shout out for another Microsoft product. I love OneDrive. I think I've got a fair bit of storage. I use it to back up all my iPhone photos and stuff and my life in OneDrive. We probably shouldn't replace that. I'll look at these a little. I'm going to have to pay you advertising costs now for just promoting Microsoft stuff. Doing a grade jump for Dell, doing a grade jump for Microsoft for ever writing Microsoft. That's pretty much today's episode over. I'm just going to summarize real quick. I think for me there's no right or wrong. Understand your scenario, talk to an expert, make sure they're giving you the right advice around Azure Stack HCI and Windows Server 2020. You can buy and use both, giving the right scenario for you, your business, your company. And third point obviously talk to Lisa Clark which company did you work for again? Sorry, I didn't quite catch that was it? Dell Technologies. Dell Technologies and you're saying Dell Technologies make the best servers. Well, I think all servers are great. For me who says it, we are number one in server, we're number one in HCI and number one in Microsoft HCI segmentation too. Wow. You wouldn't want to have an argument with Lisa, would you? Right. Absolutely fine. So all good. Thank you, Lisa. We very much appreciate it as always. Everybody, we really appreciate you watching this episode from the rock to the cloud. Keep your eye out on Channel 9, LinkedIn, YouTube for the next episode. Any thoughts or comments, please let me know. We'll get Lisa to answer those and tell you why Dell is great next time on the next show. Thanks a lot. Cheers. Bye.