 It's time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope. A television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Lawn Jean Wittner Watch Company. Maker of Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner. Distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Jean. Good evening, this is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope? From the CBS television news staff, Larry Lusser, and Ned Kalmer. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the Honorable Carl Gruber, Austrian Ambassador to the United States. Dr. Gruber, you were a member of the Austrian resistance movement during the war, and you've been involved in its foreign policy ever since. Now, the big four Western powers have met at least 400 times to discuss the terms of a peace treaty for Austria, the one that was promised 10 years ago, and nothing has happened. Do you feel discouraged about it? Well, my answer to that is no, I do not feel discouraged. I do not see an immediate prospect of a treaty, but you'll see we have a history of almost a thousand years. Nothing we can survive a few radical doctrines, which are bound to come. Well, when we accepted the terms for an Austrian peace treaty, I think that was 1943, Mr. Molotov refused at that time to do any more about it. But then at Berlin, we accepted the terms, the Russian terms for an Austrian peace treaty, and Mr. Molotov refused to go along with that. Now, do you feel that this means the end of the whole thing? Well, first I want to say this was a very good diplomatic move from your side, because they had to show their hands now and declared quite openly that even if you signed the proposed treaty, which they proposed, I want to say they would not be ready to go. So this ends one phase of the treaty making, but there are more to come. I think we have not to drop hope for the next future. What do you mean, in other words, that these 375 or 380 meetings meant actually nothing, because we accepted all the Russian terms and they showed their actual hand that they must keep troops in Austria. Does that mean that an Austrian peace treaty is dependent upon a settlement with Germany? Well, perhaps not exactly on Germany, but apparently they want to use Austria as a pawn in their overall game. And as long as we have not much more development between East and West, I think we cannot expect any sudden development. But I'm quite hopeful that the time will come where they will think again about the policy and then I think we will get our treaty. Well, Dr. Gruber, the Soviet policy now seems to be the scrapping of the European defense plan, which would include Germany and its army. Do you feel that they succeeded in scrapping that EDC, as we call it, they would then sign an Austrian peace treaty? Well, you never know. You say they said very often, if you fulfill this condition, then we will sign the treaty. And then we did this and then they came with something new. So you never can predict and they would not be sure what they do if this condition is really then... Well, Mr. Ambassador, aren't the Austrians getting a little bit weary of living under Soviet rule occupation? How long has this been going on now? What's going on since the end of the war? They are certainly fed up with it. There's no doubt about that. Do the Russians make themselves objectionable? Have they changed in that period of occupation? Well, they changed a little bit. They did at least a better dressing of the window, but they still run 300 factories by the Russian management and they exploit the oil. So there's quite a great drain on our economy. Well, has that changed the traditional gay life of Vienna at all? Not too much. Luckily enough, the Viennese have great, at least, passive strengths and they keep to their habits. Well, on the lines of that, I might ask you, Dr. Duval, what do you people do in the traditional coffee houses of Vienna for coffee now? Well, you see, they try to get good coffee still. It's a little bit more expensive as before the war, but you're quite happy there. I see. Well, incidentally, Moscow has now proposed that Russia be invited to join the NATO pact, which is an anti-communist pact. And they've also proposed, of course, that the United States be allowed to join their pan-European security service system. And do you think that's a propaganda move or should we take it seriously? Well, I have not seen the text yet, so I would like to reserve my comment, but from my past experiences, I would not immediately start too great an optimism on it. But you don't think that that proposal would have any reaction on the future of Austria? Well, I don't see any immediate result of it. I think we have to wait further. Mr. Ambassador, about the future of Austria, it seems to me that the Trieste problem over which Italy and Yugoslavia are embroiled also affects Austria. Does it not? Well, we have certainly a very strong economic interest there because this is the port where we really export most of our trade. And for this reason, we are interested at first as good order and not any major trouble between Italy and Yugoslavia and that our economic interests are protected, because you might remember that this harbor was developed in the Austrian time and we still feel very friendly to the people and we hope that the settlement will be reached whereby we can keep our interests growing there. Dr. Grubb, how do you get along with your other communist neighbors, with Hungary, with Poland, with Czechoslovakia? Do you have much trade with them? Well, our trade dropped considerably. We had 40% of our whole foreign trade went to the east before the war. It's now down to 10%. There's still some trade and we need some trade, there's no doubt, because you cannot replace 50% of your trade in such a short time. But the whole thing is not too easy to conduct because, you know, there's this barbed wire policy whereby they have sealed off their frontiers and so it's not so prospective for the next future. Well, if Austria has lost 50% of its trade, how do you manage to live there? Well, we replaced it by trade in other directions, which was not easy to do, but luckily enough we could manage at least to replace some of this trade by other directions. And the creation of the European Payments Union, which was a result of the Marshall Plan, as you might remember, was a great help in disrespect. Dr. Grubb, I know you left Austria actually right after the Anschluss with Nazi Germany, but can I ask you a personal question? Do you think that Austria is a viable political body? Can it survive without a new Anschluss with Germany and its trade and its industry? Well, I would say this. I mean, any country can live if the others are ready to let it live. So the life of a smaller country or even for a middle-sized country will always depend on what general trade system you can set up. And I think Austria has certainly enough resources to be viable, and we would be very hopeful as long as the political trouble has settled for Austria, then I think we are completely in a position to survive. Do you have any internal troubles as your domestic political life in Austria fairly stable? We have not too much trouble. You always have frictions, as there might be in any human institution. But I think the Russians keep us together. It's the Russians who keep you together. I take it that you don't have any communist problem internally in Austria, sir? Practically none, because in three elections now we have less than 5% of communists in our country. Well, Dr. Gruber, in 1943 the Russians promised that Austria would be regarded as a liberated country occupied by the Germans. And after the war they never agreed to this liberation policy anymore, and they still occupy Austria. Do you feel this marked a change in their policy? Well, I can't see a great change. They had always led the policy in Austria of the status quo. That means they are not too unpleasant on the whole, but they want to keep their troops there and keep the military in position. And they are not likely to change this policy if there are no major considerations in other fields, which you can easily see as a result of the Berlin Conference. How are they getting along on the famous international patrol in Vienna, the four men in a jeep? Well, they are still running around, and I think they at least keep a fair amount of understanding between them. Dr. Gruber, why do you suppose that the Russians have acted differently in Austria than they have in Germany? We haven't the trouble around the clashes between East and West Germany that they haven't got those clashes in Austria now. Why do you suppose that has happened? This whole climate seems to be quite different there. Well, there are many reasons that would be quite a long story to tell, but one of the main reasons is this. That right from the beginning we had the central Austrian government who kept the country together and won currency. And then I think their whole policy was a little bit different, to connect concerning Germany and concerning Austria. In Austria, they just want to keep it, let's say, as a military basis, and they had barely not the intentions to create it as a direct satellite of the Russian Empire. Do you feel that there is no intention then of partition of Austria at any time by the Soviet Union? No. Well, do you feel there that you would like the Western allies to leave the country also? Well, not certainly, not alone. I mean, not before the Russians have gone out. I mean, that certainly would be against our policy. But there is no demand from the population that the foreign troops leave Austria now? Well, if they leave, then they should leave together and should leave. If the last Russian soldiers get out, then I wouldn't be happy with another score, but not the single day before that. I ask you, sir, how do the Austrian people now feel about the people over here in America? Oh, very friendly, I think you certainly will find that in our country at least the great help which you have given to our people had good results, and you will find them very friendly disposed. And this is a lasting friendship I can assure you. Mr. Mazuro, may I ask you the final question? Do you feel that the tensions which now exist in the world, the international tensions, are relaxing or are they getting worse? How do you feel they are tending towards the future of Austria? That's certainly hard to say because we have reached a stationary situation in Europe at least, where there was not great changes on frontiers and on regions between the east and west in the last months or years. And so it depends much on how the other issues might turn out. It's still critical, it's still dangerous, but we hope. And you see, I always think optimism is as costly as pessimism for the reason I'm an optimist. Well, do you think we're moving towards a negotiating stage? We have a lot of international conferences set up. I'm thinking particularly the one at Geneva. Well, I would say we moved to a talking stage. This doesn't mean that we are moving to a negotiating stage. This is much earlier to judge. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Gruber. Privileged to have you here tonight. Thank you. The opinions expressed on the Laun Jean Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Laun Jean Chronoscope was Larry Lisser and Ned Kalmer. 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