 Welcome to tonight's episode of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Zamantho Ngakumalo. We're on episode 21. We all made it to Monday. I know every day seems like Monday or that day, whatever day it is, because we are certainly using counter on day 46 of the national lockdown. And as many of us would have seen last week's regulation, restriction for restrictions or regulations rather, changed. And those changes essentially affected the way that we can and cannot move. So whether you're a renter or a landlord, you probably want to listen to this podcast. You want to make sense about what you can or cannot do with your tenants, with your lease agreements, with evictions. And to help us understand this, Silne Stain, who's the managing director of SSLR Incorporated, will be helping us. So we'll be looking at what the updated level four restrictions mean for renters and landlords. Silne, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thanks so much, Inga. Thank you so much for having me. So it seems like you're our resident lockdown report of data. Only helping us make sense of what these new regulations essentially mean for those of us who are in the property space, whether you're owning a property or you're renting a property, really trying to understand and navigate what it means. I think firstly, before we even look at what we can or cannot do, let's look at what the regulation actually says. I mean, it's quite explicit in terms of the conditions under which we can move or who can move. And they even say that we can move until the 7th of June. I know when many people saw that, some of them thought, oh, my god, we're still going to be here in June. Some people thinking maybe it's just going to be like this for the rest of the year. What exactly does the regulation say with reference to what we or who can move under which conditions we can essentially move? All right. So the regulation specifically says I'm going to have to again start at the first regulation. So I'm going to have to irritate everybody now and just quickly explain, when we talk about regulations, what are we talking about? And I know this because I've done quite a few webinars on this particular topic. And I know afterwards everybody's so confused because I talk of these regulations as if everybody has seen them. So let's start there. The regulations, guys, are the regulations issued by the different ministers in terms of the Disaster Management Act? Because remember the moment you declare a national state of disaster, the Disaster Management Act kicks in. And with that, a lot of rights are getting limited. You're allowed to do that. It's, for instance, the right to freedom of movement. And everybody's like, oh, but that is a constitutional right. How can we limit that? We have a section in the Constitution, Section 36, which is part of the human rights, which says any one of the rights in the Constitution even may be limited if there's another right weighing heavier than that one. So the right to life, for instance, for an elderly person or for anybody who's now we see that, I mean, it's not just the elderly that unfortunately succumbed to COVID-19, but the right of life does weigh heavier than the right of freedom to movement. You get what I'm saying? So this is allowed. And so what the National Disaster Management Act says is when the ministers now run the country in a different way under regulations that's now limiting the normal legislation that we're working with. They issue regulations which will limit some legislation, even as far as the Constitution, which we are seeing, no panic, it's the way it should be. But the regulations, there was a first set of regulations issued. Remember the first day we heard about this was on the 15th of June that Sunday evening when the president said, March, look at me, I'm already being in tune. The 15th of March when the president said, we're now in a national state of disaster. And then with the schools being closed and everything, we started seeing the first regulations. Then the lockdown was part of the regulations. But the first set of regulations defines lockdown. And lockdown is defined as the period 2359 on the 26th of March. So one minute before 12th on the 26th of March, lockdown will start. And it ends on the 30th of April 2020. So I'm not making the lockdown time up. This is defined, but it's not in these updated regulations because we still have the initial regulations with the initial definitions. So that's something very important to note. Lockdown period, 26th March to 30th April. And everybody's saying, but we're still in lockdown. We're in level four of lockdown now. We're not still in full lockdown. So that's the story of it. And along in the short of that regulation, updated regulation that came out on the 7th of May in the, it was gazetted in the government, I am thinking the number was number four, three, four, two, something like that. I remember the regulation, the government gazetted number, 283, that's the end of the number there. And that was published on the 7th of May. And what we said in that regulation, what the minister said is people are not just allowed to return, because remember in the initial regulation, yes. Was just returned. Now they said, okay, it's not just returned, but it's also for properties that was transferred prior to lockdown. So if transfer occurred prior to the 26th of March, you can't move. Or if there was a lease agreement, and yes, the fun fact, if there was a lease agreement that was concluded prior to lockdown, prior or during lockdown. So it means prior to or up until the 30th of April. April, yes. Those people can move. And the regulations regarding moving companies is then also extended to a moving company will be allowed to assist with the relocation within the Republic of South Africa. That's very important. You can't load your stuff and immigrate now. Now is not your time, but within the Republic you can move. And I think then let's also look at, I mean, the regulation actually does stipulate that firstly, you know, persons can move. And then that second one is, you're essentially allowed to move your furniture. So whatever goods that need to be moved, or furniture that needs to be moved because you're making that movement is allowed. However, the same gazetted regulations also then have the special permit that you would need in order to move. Can you just take us through that permit? Because it's not a, okay, now I want to go back home. Actually, no, I want to stay here. Just gonna pack up my bags and go. There's a permit that you need and they essentially steps that you need to follow before you make that move. Yes, 100%. So the permit forms part of this gazetted document. So it's available. I don't know if you can, I will send it to you and you're more than welcome to post it on your page as well if you don't have it. So it's form one of these regulations. So the form has to be completed. You have to attach to that form the lease agreement. You need to record in the form the end date of the previous lease, the commencement date of the new lease agreement and then you attach the actual lease agreement as well. Or you need to show proof that transfer occurred. And so this will be a letter from the conveyance confirming that transfer to place prior to the 26th of March. You go to the police station, the station commander or a person instructed on behalf of the station commander can stamp this. I kid you not, there's like a little spot on the form official stamp. We want an official stamp there. Then you can move. My suggestion is 100% to not try and circumvent this because if you try to be clever on this one and you think you're just gonna have your brother in law who was a police officer way back when just dig up his old stamp and you stamp something like that or you don't feel like going to the police you can spend a lot more time with the police when you're in jail for six months. And so essentially your people moving into new places are essentially covered whether it's the place that you would have bought and was registered or perhaps somebody who's moving into a new place and it entered this agreement prior to the lockdown. What about people who since lockdown has happened essentially your financial status has changed and you're not moving to a new place but instead perhaps you're moving home or you're moving in with your friend because you can see that you won't be able to stay in the current place. And suppose your rental agreement was essentially going was already ending on the 30th of April. So for May's purposes perhaps you're already on a month to month basis and now you're able to say to a landlord perhaps let's make this the last month so that I'm able to move before that seven June deadline. What kind of documentation can they present given that as much as they'll have the lease that would have expired they certainly won't have a new lease agreement that would have kicked in whether it's the first of May or the first of June. Yes, so a new lease agreement I am happy with a new lease agreement as long as it contains the date of 30 April or before that. So a lot of people ask me but so now I didn't know at that time I can sign a lease if there was a communication between you and the landlord and you already knew you're going to move as soon as lockdown allows. Remember lease agreement doesn't have to be in writing. So to now conclude that agreement in writing and date it to reflect a date prior to or the 30th of April because that was the time when the verbal agreement was concluded or with the intention between the parties came clear. You're going to be happy with that. However, for the tenant that has to cancel his lease agreement and move out to move in with his mother or family member or friends, whatever. You have an expired lease agreement or a canceled lease agreement. Attach that to the document. Make an effort David to say, I am not moving in to a new lease premises unless you can do that if you're going to move in with family you can do a lease agreement. And you can say that you're going to rent and your rent will only be paid at a later stage. You can do these things. And as long as it's dated, then in compliance with the regulations you will be able to get your permit. But what I suggest every police station is applying the regulations slightly differently. I don't think it's a bad thing. I'm not saying anything bad about the police. I'm just saying, remember every station commander has to apply the rules as they understand it. So be very careful of watching a webinar and thinking this is a one-size-fits-all rule because the station commander here and the station commander in Kuruman could very well feel very different about this. So we know to move, you need a police permit. The police does have the right to give these permits. So if you're going to move back to the family, my suggestion is go to the police station, do an effort, David, to explain why you're not going to enter into a lease agreement but why you have to move and get an understanding of how your police station will enforce that rule and if they would be willing to give you a permit. If they are not, explain the situation and ask them what they would want from you to issue the permit. I do believe that's the safest route to take at this stage. So now we're going to take a quick break. After we come back, I just want to ask a question around people, landlords in particular, who are looking at this as an opportunity to get a tenant for that vacant place. We're getting a lot of questions from landlords who are thinking, well, the previous month, my place was vacant because I couldn't get in a new person or perhaps the current tenant, their lease had expired so they're going to use this opportunity to actually move and now they are seeing that their place is going to remain vacant. They don't know how long we're going to be under these restrictions and so they're seeing this as an opportunity to source a new tenant from scratch and perhaps get them in before that 7 June deadline. So after the break, I want us to actually first just unpack that because I'm sure a lot of landlords are thinking, this is affecting my cash flow and I have to do something about it. If you're sitting at home and you have any questions around what the level four restrictions or the updated level four restrictions mean for you as a tenant, as a landlord, do send us those questions and we'll be asking them. I'm joined by Silne State, who's the managing director of SSLR and we're unpacking what these new regulations essentially mean. We'll be back after this. Welcome back to episode 21 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Zaman Dunga Kumal. I'm joined by Silne Stain, who's the managing director of SSLR Incorporated. We're looking at what the updated level four restrictions mean for renters and landlords. Now, so now before the break, I did say that I want us to look at landlords who want to get new lease agreements. So the 30th of April went, came and gone and they hadn't entered into new agreement. They hadn't started or hadn't initiated a conversation with a potential tenant. No such conversation had occurred. And now that they've, we've seen government regulations being updated, they are seeing this as an opportunity to ensure that they get that tenant because they don't know how long this is going to last. Are they essentially allowed to do that? Can they be soliciting new tenants? Because the regulation seems to be quite clear around the perimeters under which rental agreements can or cannot be entered into. Yes, 100%. And the most important thing is whether you're a landlord rental agent, whatever the case might be, really state activities isn't allowed in level four, extremely limited. For instance, we are very sure that you would be able to get a permit issued and we have to unpack that in more detail to be able to do, for instance, an entry or an exit inspection, but viewings aren't allowed. So whether you're the landlord or whether you're an estate agent, you're not allowed to attend to these things at this stage. Remember guys, we're not staying at home because we're all very tired and we decided the year 2020 is the year of risk and baking and getting fat. That wasn't really the thing. We are staying indoors to limit the spread of COVID-19, which is a very serious virus that we can't just be like, ah, but I would really actually like to be outside. We all do, but unfortunately this is the way it is. So the regulations are there to curb the spread of the virus. So they try and circumvent the regulations. Doesn't just expose you and your family to a risk. It exposes everybody using and getting contact with your risk. So the truth is, if there was negotiations during the lockdown or prior to lockdown, so let's take this one example. I am the landlord, you are the tenant. You wanted to take occupation, you had the viewing of the place, everything prior to lockdown. And we said, you know what, let's hold off until lockdown is finished. So we can make the move. That landlord and tenant, you had the intention to conclude the agreement. You can now conclude an agreement. You can date it to the date when the parties intended to conclude the agreement. And that must be before the 30th of April. You will then be allowed to move. But for a landlord or a rental agent to now start showing properties is definitely not just risky. It is in contravention of the regulations and you will without any doubt, when court be arrested. And what I need to say, and I say this the whole time, I'm so irritating about this, but remember guys, this is not trying your luck and then get caught and then you have a slap on the wrist. This is a crime in terms of the National Disaster Management Act. This is pretty much similar to cutting a tank's tires in the middle of war. This is not how we roll. And the truth is the type of crime we talk... I love my analogy there. That's what I think, tires on the tank. Let me know, analogies there, so much. So dramatic. But the point I'm making is that our disaster management act only kicks in in situations like war or like what we are currently in. So it's very similar and the crime that you will have recorded against your name is a crime in terms of the Disaster Management Act. Unfortunately, you will not see a visa any time soon again. And it is a very serious criminal record. So essentially you're saying, if a landlord decides to take their chance, maybe try to solicit a new tenant or try to get a new tenant, arrange a viewing, should they be caught, you'd be arrested, you could get a criminal, essentially a criminal record. Yes, and a very serious criminal record. It's not that criminal record you sort of still carrying with you that one night when you decided not to take an Uber, it's not on the same level. It's a very serious criminal record to the point where you will not be able to get a visa from a lot of countries. Yeah, I mean, so, you know, similar, you were talking earlier about permits and we've got a comment from Howard McIntyne, who says permits talk about the new normal and they've got a crying emoji. And I'm sure so many people are, you know, increasingly growing frustrated about the admin of having to organize permits for the different services that they provide. Another question now similar that I've seen a lot of landlords ask is, so now you've, you're essentially, suppose you're stuck with this tenant who hasn't been paying and let's assume that they probably even haven't been paying prior to lockdown. Lockdown has essentially ensured that they still stay in your property because you couldn't evict them. Now I wanted to talk about evictions just after this, but the first, this question is, no, can the landlord then turn off electricity or water? A lot of the, you know, landlords have been asking, well, my tenant, it's the second month or the third month, they're not paying. And now they're using this virus as an excuse to not honor their rental agreement or the lease agreement. Can I just turn off the water and electricity? Okay, so we start with what we can do and then I'll go to what we can't do. So what you can do is, well, even while we were in full lockdown, a tenant that's not paying rent, you can place him on terms. So you send a letter of demand from TPN through the TPN system. It's really an easy to use letter. Or whichever letter of demand you want to use, I specifically refer to the TPN letter of demand simply because I draft him. So I'm very happy with the content of the particular letter of demand. Get the letter of demand out, give the tenant 20 business days to remedy his breach. If he doesn't, we can cancel the agreement. Now currently, through SSLR, we're doing a very special kind of cancellation letter. So we are saying the agreements canceled. You do have until the 7th of June to vacate. Get a permit to vacate. If you can't, show us in writing what the reason is why you can't get a permit. And the tenant that then doesn't vacate in this time period until the 7th of June, we can without any doubt commence with eviction. We can even go up to eviction order. And in specific cases, we can even get a court order to already execute in level four. I mean, execute the eviction order guys, not execute like it's done. That was also a bit dramatic. But we can even execute the eviction orders in very specific circumstances. In most cases, we will have to hold off on our execution of the eviction order until the end of level four. But regulation 19 does allow execution in specific circumstances. So something very important here guys. Regulation 19 specifically refers to eviction in terms of pi and ester. And it says we can obtain those eviction orders. We can also obtain commercial eviction orders. If you now disconnect your utility supply or get yourself involved with any form of arbitrary eviction. Usually it's just a spaliation order. And you can end up with a nasty cost order against you. Currently once again, we're talking a criminal offense. So even before this, we did because in terms of the regulations to the unfair regulations to the rings of housing act already criminalized arbitrary evictions. But at this stage, it's not just a crime in terms of the rings of housing act. It is also a crime in terms of the disaster management act. So once again, much more serious. Please don't disconnect. If it is to the point where the landlord really can't sustain the utility supply and the tenants not paying contact an attorney for a potential approach to the high court for a utility disconnection court order. That we can do, but unfortunately, not unfortunately, it's never something you should be doing arbitrary evictions as naughty as it is. But now it's really the punishment for that is going to be much more harsh than it was before COVID-19. So essentially, especially for landlords because I know that there are some who are, unfortunately, probably aren't as friendly as we are or might take harsher ways to deal with tenants relative to probably yourself and myself. In the event where your tenant is not paying and you switch off water and electricity, what you're essentially saying is that you could end up with a criminal record if you do that. A hundred percent. So now we've got another question coming in from Stephanie Woodboy who asks, at which level do you believe one would be able to view any properties to purchase? So this isn't even to move in, but I mean to rent, but to essentially- Yes. So when will estate agency, really stage function become part of the regulations? Unfortunately, Stephanie, I wish I could answer that and that is the million dollar question at this stage. I wish we knew, we know obviously of the submissions made by Robosa, we've made submissions. I think almost everybody made submissions to ask for real estate to be able to work. We have no idea when that would be and I think something very important is remember in the initial sort of draft regulations, we had a bit of an idea that it would be in level two, but remember those were draft regulations. So we have no idea what level three, two, one and regulations look like at this stage. So don't bargain on the draft regulations, but also don't necessarily hold your breath for level four functioning. We have no idea. Government has to make these decisions based on a very specific advice from scientists and doctors around what is safe and what isn't. Now, Silna, as of last week, I mean, certainly the previous time we had spoken, we knew that deeds officers were entitled to open, but as of last week, they still hadn't opened as opposed to us because they still needed PPE. You know, one of the questions that have come in is around whether or not or people wanting to understand a, when they're bound to essentially be registered because, you know, there's a case that I heard of somebody who property had been sold, gone through the whole process, essentially just that last bit of the deeds office was missing and then we were into lockdown. So often had been accepted by both parties. Everybody has signed. They just hadn't logged at the deeds office. And now of course, with all these delays, we're now essentially on day 46 and there's typically an expiry date around, you know, when the grant that bank has given you is going to hold. So both parties are essentially now a bit nervous. I mean, the seller is nervous. They've worked through quite a lot to ensure that their property is sold. The buyer is also nervous because maybe they might use, you know, the bond that they've been granted by the bank. How do they try to make sense of that? I mean, I've seen certain reports have been saying that perhaps banks might withdraw some of the offers or some of the grants that had been made to people prior to lockdown because some of those essentially won't be logged at the deeds office and we don't know how much longer this is actually going to go on for. Yeah, it's a scary thing. There was talk now of a bunch of the deeds offices that would have opened today. I just saw a circular from the Pretoria Attorneys Association a little earlier today, which said Pretoria deeds office and definitely didn't open today. They still don't have the PPE. I'm not sure about any one of the other deeds offices to be honest. I think we would have known if there was a deeds offices opening. I heard talk about deeds offices potentially opening on the 13th, which is Wednesday. I don't know guys, until they have PPE, it's not safe for anybody to go into the deeds offices anyway. So we're gonna have to wait for them. But to your question, I am concerned about the bonds that couldn't be lodged, the transfers that couldn't be lodged. Luckily, your offer to purchase remains in place and it's not like your offer to purchase if you don't register within a specific time period where people just lapse. The parties can obviously, if one of the parties refused to do the things necessary to transfer, obviously they would be grounds to place that party on terms and potentially cancel at this stage. That's not on the cards because none of the parties are in default. We can't transfer. So nothing bad will happen to your offer to purchase. However, the banks could definitely would be in a position to re-look the bond grant, especially if the applicant's financial position changed substantially. And in that situation, where a bond is then withdrawn, it depends on the way that the suspense of condition was drafted, whether that entire agreement will then just lapse and it's like it never happened or not. So unfortunately, I can't give a blanket answer because the drafting of the suspense of condition will be very relevant. Just on that, Solna, are people able to sort of retrospectively add a suspense of course? So I mean, they probably wouldn't have been preemptively be able to predict that lockdown would be this long. We initially thought 21 days and maybe thought we might go back to relative normalcy, but we're seeing that that's not the case. So are they now able to say, you know what? We don't know how long this is going to take. Maybe let's retrospectively add a particular clause that would make it so that this deal doesn't lapse. Are they able to do that? Definitely not retrospective suspense of condition. What you would be able to do is you are always able to amend the terms of any agreement between the parties in writing. So you will do an addendum for instance saying, if this lockdown continues and if the banks then reassess, so say for instance the suspense of condition wouldn't allow the elapsing of the agreement if the bank withdraws the bond grant at any stage, the parties can bring an amendment to the agreement like that. I would however be very reluctant to just jump into amending agreements simply because most offers to purchase the way those suspense of condition is drafted will typically protect a purchaser in a situation like this anyway. Thus leave the seller in an extremely vulnerable position because there was fulfillment of the suspense of condition and now it can be potentially withdrawn. So as the seller and the purchaser, you can definitely enter into an amendment of the agreement for instance, the purchaser that now knows that he lost all his income. He was retrenched, it's not coming back. He will not be able to pay that bond. Those parties can buy agreement, agree to cancel the agreement based on this and the seller can then as soon as the real estate duties are back on track again, find a new purchaser as quickly as possible. This is unfortunately the situation. The purchaser who is getting the bond but just doesn't want it anymore but can theoretically unfortunately unless there's something very specific in the agreement with your bank, unfortunately you're gonna have to take the registration as soon as the deed's office is in a position to register that bond in your name. And so now we've got another question here coming in from Salman Dian who asks, what can we do if a tenant does not want to pay but does not want to produce bank statements or a letter from their employers stating that they have been temporarily unemployed? Well, you place them on terms. So you're gonna do a normal letter of demand, give the 10 and 20 business days. If the CPA applies or if the CPA doesn't apply whichever amount of days the parties agree to in the lease agreement to remedy his breach. So pay is full rent. And if he doesn't, you can cancel and we can convene to eviction. And another question here, I think we've actually briefly touched on it in one of our previous conversations from there. This one coming in from Linda Dauten who asks, can we negotiate rental with the landlord? And let's assume this is for instances where you already have a rental agreement in place. Suppose you're paying $6,000 in rental and you now can see that your finances have been significantly affected and perhaps you can afford $4,500 or $5,000. Are you able to renegotiate essentially the terms of that lease agreement and perhaps agree to a lower amount? Yes, so there's no obligation on a landlord at this stage to allow for a reduced payment. And at the same time, there is nothing that gives the tenant the right to compel the landlord to give this to him or there's definitely nothing that allows the tenant not to pay his rent. So unfortunately, it is in the landlord's hands whether he's gonna give it to you or not, however. I have, I think everybody's been seeing, I've been on about Ubuntu lately. Yes, yeah. Because I think Ubuntu is the only way we can get through this. So on that, I just need to make it clear guys, Ubuntu is very much part of the South African legal system. Ubuntu, these references to Ubuntu on the name in case law, more than 150 cases at this stage, actual legislation. And the children's act specifically includes the word Ubuntu, Ubuntu just in short, when people hear it, there's this fear thing where they think they're gonna have to be, they're gonna be a little bullied by the other party. That's not what Ubuntu is. Ubuntu is such a beautiful principle where you have to see the other party as a human being. So it brings in humaneness and it makes us see each other as human beings. And remember that is 100% entrenched in our constitution. We all have to write your life. We all have the right to be seen as human beings. So think about this. The moment you take the term party out of litigation and I see you as a human being. So I'm talking about you are a human and I need to respect and appreciate you as I have to myself or any other friend or family member. Suddenly, when you come to me and you say, so now I cannot afford to pay my rent. I have to, if I have the financial means to assist you, Ubuntu dictates that I have to. Doesn't mean I have to cut my own throat off to assist you. That's not Ubuntu. Ubuntu is helping each other and giving each other the dignity and respect that a human being deserves. And that's exactly where I'm coming in. So on the landlord that doesn't want to but can assist a tenant, I would like the tenant to see in writing, appeal to the landlord and appeal to his humanity and say, Mr. Landlord, I really can't afford this rent. I want to pay you back later and bring that in writing because the landlord then that stubbornly refused to do that is going to struggle with an eviction afterwards. The court will not not grant the eviction order but the court could very well give the tenant a longer time to pay Kate before we can execute. But at the same time, the landlord that cannot afford to have a tenant pay reduced rent or not pay rent, I would like to see the landlord to also say in writing, Mr. Tenant, I wish I could help you but I am financially not in a position to do so. And both parties then use Ubuntu not in a bad way but bring it into the conversation and show in writing so we can show to the court that both parties acted within the spirit of Ubuntu. So now I think we're going to leave it right there. I think one of the important things if you want one of the big takeaways from this conversation, certainly for renters and landlords, I think beyond ensuring that we extend a bit of empathy to each other, the first thing that I'll probably say to landlords in particular is if you are in a financial position to reduce or give your tenants discount to do so. And you can already preemptively do it. You don't need to wait for them to say they can't afford it. Perhaps it's some of them, even if it's a 5% reduction, perhaps it's not going to heavily have an effect on your cash flow. If you have the means to do it, certainly do it. Already start having the conversation with your tenants. I mean, it was already in episode one when we're speaking to Zekmi as well as Gil Spurling where we're talking about the importance of both the tenants and the landlords being proactive in having a conversation about what COVID-19 could potentially do, whether it's for the tenant or the landlord. So really have that conversation with your tenants and see how you're both able to meet each other halfway. And of course we did say, Selma did say that she's going to send the form that she's going to need for the permit she has sent you through and the team will be posting it down below. So if you do need to move or your tenant needs to move, then that's the form that she needs to download in order for them to be able to go to the police station, have it signed and stamped and they'll be able to move around. Selma, thank you so much for joining us this evening. It's always a pleasure to chat to you. I'm sure should we have more updates when we go to level three? I hope we go to level three soon. I will definitely have you back to understand those repercussions and get a sense of what we can or cannot do under new regulations. Thank you very much to Selma Stain. She's the managing director of SSLR. And we've been talking about what the updated level four restrictions mean for both renters and tenants. And this has been episode 21 of the Private Property Podcasts. I've been your host, Zamanthonga Kamalo. We'll be back again tomorrow evening. Good night. I hope you stay home and you stay safe.